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XBOX 360=Dreamcast 2.0?

CmdrTaco posted more than 8 years ago | from the something-to-think-about dept.

XBox (Games) 452

Tenken writes "1UP has an eye opening article on the many similarities between the XBOX 360 and the Dreamcast. It's actually pretty scary, case in point: both consoles launched a year before their major competitors, and even their logos are incredibly similar. The article also goes on to mention why the 360 will not fail miserably like the Dreamcast. "

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Different gamer, different opinion (4, Interesting)

dada21 (163177) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962889)

I love my Dreamcast. I still play it daily (used the HD output for years to my projectors). Never owned a PSx. I still have (younger) friends who knock on my door all the time to get their Dreamcast fix.

I also couldn't give up my Intellivision for a Nintendo for 2 years (Metroid finally did it). Graphics hype wasn't enough. My friends with Nintendo came to my house for all-night Intellivision gaming. Playability was tops. I still have my Intellivision for a few games. Love that controller.

I can't see picking up an X360 for gaming. I own 2 X-Box consoles, 90% for my Media Center Extenders, 10% for my broad's vampire games. Since back in the day, my gaming was PC gaming. Castlevania and Conan, Ultima, Utopia, etc.

Console gaming for me was never about video hype. I love repeated playability with longevity, and catchy music/sounds. Graphics have always been better on my PC, but I turn them to the lowest settings. We're getting really close to "Life" rather than "Life-like" and when we get there, I'll put graphics near the top once I can truly be reality immersed.

There aren't many gamers like me, I think. I'm not a market. I spend a TON on hardware, very little on software. I'd love to find a group/site I can communicate with, consisting of people with similar gaming issues.

Chu Chu Rocket, anyone?

Re:Different gamer, different opinion (-1, Troll)

November 1, 2005 (927710) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962942)

"I still have (younger) friends who knock on my door all the time to get their Dreamcast fix."
What does the age of your friends have to do with the price of tea in China?

"There aren't many gamers like me, I think. I'm not a market."
Congrats on being so unique. Sadly, you're not. It appears that you've built up most of your ego around this idea that you are very special and different and there's no one else out there like you. This makes you feel like you're superior to everyone else. I'm afraid that I have bad news for you - you're inferior and not unique.

Re:Different gamer, different opinion (1)

dada21 (163177) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963073)

Hmm. I'll have to disagree on the ego thing. My gaming is, generally, private. My life doesn't revolve around new and beautiful, but what gives me value for my time spent.

Sure, I'm 31, 2x the age of the gamer market. Yet even at 16 I couldn't understand the hype over quantity over quality.

Re:Different gamer, different opinion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13963307)

HAHAHA! I think your reply proved his point.

Re:Different gamer, different opinion (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13962965)

wow, I had no idea pedophiles had a preference for dreamcast

Re:Different gamer, different opinion (5, Funny)

Jonny_eh (765306) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963025)

Wow, you are sooo interesting! Tell us more!

Re:Different gamer, different opinion (3, Funny)

shinma (106792) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963090)

10% for my broad's vampire games.


Guess she doesn't read Slashdot, huh?

Re:Different gamer, different opinion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13963211)

As much as I do, actually :) The dame doesn't have a problem with my vernacular. Which is one reason I stick with her, hah. No male haters for this guy.

dreamcast was "failed" only for non-owners (3, Insightful)

ArmorFiend (151674) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963092)

Indeed, the people that accuse Dreamcast of being a "failed" system invariably are those that never had a dreamcast! The system rocked, and had eminently fun & groundbreaking games. If, like me, this is what you want from your console, then the Dreamcast was a smashing success (actually its my favorite console of all time). If, on the other hand what you desire from your console is "the same mediocrity that all your friends have", then the PS2 is your man.

Re:dreamcast was "failed" only for non-owners (5, Insightful)

Jason Earl (1894) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963121)

Here's how you can tell that Dreamcast failed. Instead of making Sega piles of money, it lost Sega piles of money, and it caused them to get out of the console business forever.

Believe it or not, the gaming business isn't about giving you and your friends fun games to play, it's about making money. That's why it's hard to qualify the XBox as a success. The XBox lost more money than any other console in history. Microsoft has lost billions of dollars on the XBox. Heck, it's still losing money on a quarterly basis as Microsoft readies the 360. If the XBox 360 is as big a financial disaster as the XBox then Microsoft investors are almost certainly going to wonder what they are doing throwing their money down a hole.

Re:dreamcast was "failed" only for non-owners (4, Interesting)

ArmorFiend (151674) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963167)

Sega is a failed console manufacturer. I suppose that would matter if they'd released the system only to have no games for it, like, say, the 32x. But with Dreamcast apperantly they only had money to either (A) Make Great Games or (B) Market it properly. They chose (A), and that's why you don't see DC owners complaining it is a "failed system".

Re:dreamcast was "failed" only for non-owners (1)

dominic7 (70356) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963187)

Yeah I totally agree remember when Windows 1.0 came out and all the investors complained that M$ was throwing money away. Well, you know what the investors were right, that Operating System / Shell failed miserably.

Investors know so much more about the tech biz than Gates and the gang after all.

Re:Different gamer, different opinion (1, Funny)

`Sean (15328) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963125)

My Trunkmonkey can beat up your Trunkmonkey. ;)

Re:Different gamer, different opinion (0, Offtopic)

dada21 (163177) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963219)

I miss all my scoobies so much its not funny. I became a Land Rover geek and found out that its a costlier hobby than the scoobies, so now I'm on the twelve step program to get rid of my car addiction. Yes, I own a 96 Toyota Corolla (used) until I can no longer wolf whistle at cars over women. I think my lady is more jealous of vehicles than boobies.

Re:Different gamer, different opinion (0, Flamebait)

ilyaaohell (866922) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963173)

Umm... wow.

Not to knock your taste in games or anything (I, too, own a Dreamcast), but something doesn't add up. You don't care about graphics, and yet you bought the Dreamcast, the most powerful console at the time of release (and it still holds it's own 6 years later). Then you go on to say that you turn your graphics down to the lowest setting, only to then add that you spend more on hardware than on software. So, all this begs the question: What was the point of your rant?

Re:Different gamer, different opinion (1)

SphericalCrusher (739397) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963305)

Yeah, I'm a pretty big Dreamcast fan also. In fact, it's actually my favorite console still with the GameCube coming in a close 2nd. The fact of the matter is that it probably was not the "best" (but what is?) gaming console of all time, but it sure as hell had some kick ass games made for it. The same cannot be said for the Xbox, IMO.

It's ==, not =. :-) (5, Funny)

techmuse (160085) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962902)

The slashdot editors were probably not assigning the XBOX 360 to have the same value as the Dreamcast, but rather just doing a comparison. But since they have performed the assignment, the XBOX 360 will fail several years ago, in EXACTLY the same way as the Dreamcast. :-)

Re:It's ==, not =. :-) (1)

HeavyMS (820705) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962995)

It's times like this i wich I had made clever comments so I have had modpoints to give you.

No, NO. (4, Funny)

game kid (805301) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963034)

They assigned it the value of Dreamcast 2.0. There hasn't been a Dreamcast 2.0 yet, so the XBOX 360 is currently null (Nothing in Visual Basic).

Therefore, it actually doesn't exist. Quod erat demonstratum etc.

(Now, having seen many pictures of the console before this, my head will surely explode in either case.)

Re:It's ==, not =. :-) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13963089)

In VisualBASIC.NET, you do comparisons with a single =. Maybe Slashdot editors are just Microsoft whores?

Re:It's ==, not =. :-) (1)

piquadratCH (749309) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963106)

Man, this is Microsoft, we're talking BASIC!

Re:It's ==, not =. :-) (2, Funny)

Xipher (868293) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963221)

Never used Ada have you? = Equality Testing := Assignment

Re:It's ==, not =. :-) (1)

BashDot (756483) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963329)

Don't tell me you missed the '?'. Where's the following "expr:expr"?

The biggest difference is (4, Insightful)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962910)

that Microsoft is not coming off an abysmal failure of a console, it's coming from a console that did relatively well. It seems a lot of people were just so tired of Sega constantly releasing overpriced hardware(eg 32x, Genesis CD, Sega Saturn) with a very limited software selection that they just gave up on Sega and wouldn't even give the Dreamcast a try. Of course Sony's overhyped PS2 announcement didn't help either, but I don't think that was the main cause of the demise of the dreamcast. Microsoft(in the realm of video games anyway) is coming off a somewhat surprising hit with the XBox, a relatively long lived console with lots of games to choose from. They could still fail, but I don't think it will be for the same reasons the Dreamcast failed.

Re:The biggest difference is (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13962954)

The Saturn was a winner in Japan. It was Sega of America that fucked things up in the US by not releasing the good games and as a result Sega cleaned house after the Saturn.

And the 32x was Japan but in the US. It was another US Sega fuck up.

MegaDrive through Saturn were great systems to own, just not in the US.

The Dreamcast died due to being half a generation behind Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft. They were the odd man out and not strong enough to pull that off.

Re:The biggest difference is (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13963023)

"Microsoft is not coming off an abysmal failure of a console"

I guess that depends on how you define abysmal failure.

Microsoft lost $4 billion, equivalent to 10% of their profits over the last 4 years, to come into a very distant and very sloppy second in a market with only 3 competitors.

Microsoft literally gave the Xbox away. Divide the 4 billion they lost by the average price of the Xbox over the last 4 years and you get almost 20 million consoles - which accounts for almost every console they "sold".

Re:The biggest difference is (5, Insightful)

Have Blue (616) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963183)

Considering that they kicked their most experienced competitor out of that "very distant and very sloppy second", I'd say they did pretty well. Also, you're not accounting for games that tanked (of which MGS financed more than a few) and investments in the Xbox Live infrastructure.

This is how MS has always worked- the first version sucks and loses a ton of money (the Xbox somehow dodged the former), but they do learn from their mistakes when they're actually forced to compete with someone.

Re:The biggest difference is (4, Insightful)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963216)

Define kicked...

When you start looking at what Nintendo did with the GameCube, you start realizing that it wasn't that Microsoft kicked them out of the second place slot, it's Nintendo failed to execute sufficiently to keep the second place slot.

If they'd designed the GameCube a little differently, say with a DVD drive in it instead of their cutesy discs...
If they'd not gunned for the kiddie games company role (which has always been a failing of Nintendo...)...

If either or both of them happened differently, X-Box would have most likely ended up third. Even then, Microsoft didn't
really kick them, they out bought them. Like the grandparent poster indicated- they basically GAVE the X-Box away, spending more than either of the other two players, just to get that second place. Imagine what would have happened if Sony had seriously opted for that play- Sony's a MUCH bigger company with even deeper pockets.

Re:The biggest difference is (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13963256)

"Imagine what would have happened if Sony had seriously opted for that play- Sony's a MUCH bigger company with even deeper pockets. "

Sony's got significant financial issues to deal with right now, and they're losing money in pretty much every product except the PS2. Microsoft continues to make more and more profit each quarter. Thanks to a smarter console design, this next time around MS will be able to cut console prices and still make a profit, unlike Sony whose PS3 is looking to be extremely expensive even with Sony's subsidies.

The tables have turned in the gaming industry. Microsoft has learned, and it appears that Sony has reverted backwards. Already Merrill Lynch has called the XBOX360 the early but clear winner in the next-gen race.

Re:The biggest difference is (2, Insightful)

Txiasaeia (581598) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963345)

If they'd designed the GameCube a little differently, say with a DVD drive in it instead of their cutesy discs... If they'd not gunned for the kiddie games company role (which has always been a failing of Nintendo...)...

I always find it amusing when people slam the Gamecube because it's too kiddy. Invariably, people who make this claim don't own the console. Repeat after me: the [gamezone.com] Gamecube [capcom.com] is [killer7.com] not [eternaldarkness.com] kiddy [soulcalibur.com] , despite [ign.com] repeated [activision.com] claims to the contrary [xiii-thegame.com] .

Even if you're not looking at M-rated games, there are several excellent games that are enjoyable for all ages, including F-Zero GX, Mario Kart, Metroid Prime 1 & 2, Pikmin, and Viewtiful Joe. I'd also like to see a kid play Ikaruga for more than five minutes before moving on to something easier. Finally, the PS2 has games like Powerpuff Girls Relish Rampage, Monsters Inc., and Piglet's Little Game, while the XBox has such Triple-A titles as Disney's Extreme Skate Adventure, Tom and Jerry: The War of the Whiskers, and Fairly Odd Parents: Breakin' Da Rules. Does that mean that Microsoft and Sony were "gunning for the kiddie games company role" too? Cutesy graphics does not necessarily equal "kiddie games."

Re:The biggest difference is (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13963255)

Nintendo never had an unprofitable quarter this generation. When your competitors are losing $4 billion and you're making money, it doesn't matter how much they outsold you by. You won the console race.

Re:The biggest difference is (1)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963361)

Microsoft literally gave the Xbox away.

which is called dumping, which is normally illegal, but it seems nobody gives a fuck anymore about monopolies and illegal economic practices in this country...

Re:The biggest difference is (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13963109)

Sega constantly releasing overpriced hardware(eg 32x, Genesis CD, Sega Saturn) with a very limited software selection that they just gave up on Sega and wouldn't even give the Dreamcast a try.

They tried to follow the NEC PC Engine model, but unfortunately did so at the height of the Japanese recession.

Re:The biggest difference is (1)

Norgus (770127) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963114)

Very insightful, in fact its information repeated from the second page of TFA.

Erm...no... (4, Interesting)

kubevubin (906716) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962914)

I've already read this article, and I don't feel that many of those "similarities" are even relevant. After all, couldn't much of the same be said of other consoles?

Re:Erm...no... (3, Insightful)

kubevubin (906716) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962972)

Actually, allow me to explain...

#1 - The Xbox 360 is not launching an entire year before its competition; it's launching 4-8 months before its compeition.

#3 - The Xbox 360 is still bulky.

#12 - How the Hell do they consider a VMU highly customizable? If nothing else, they could've mentioned the fact that you can change a Dreamcast's shell. Then again, you can do that with pretty much any gaming console.

#14 - Dreamcast had a whopping three Bleemcast! discs releases, and maybe one or two Smash Packs (depending on the country).

#15 - I don't recall "Space Channel 5" being too widely anticipated. (I, personally, loved the game, though.)

#18 - These aren't the only two consoles that have headsets...

#19 - Nintendo 64, anyone?

#23 - What?

Re:Erm...no... (2, Funny)

penguin_asylum (822967) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962985)

You can change any gaming console's shell, sure, with liberal amounts of duct tape.

Re:Erm...no... (5, Insightful)

MBCook (132727) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962989)

I've read this article too (I submitted it to /., but I guess he beat me to it).

I don't think the article is meant to be taken seriously. It is part of their "launch coverage" (read: we need to fill time). It is interesting to look at, and some of the coincidences are surprising, but I think it is meant as a laugh.

Either way, when you get to the second page, that is when the article becomes more serious. Many of the 10 reasons the XBox 360 will succeed show why a similarity from the previous page isn't so similar after-all.

An example of this is on the first page, they show both the DC and the 360 have a way to connect to the internet (modem, and ethernet) and tout playing against your friends and such. On the second page, they point out the difference between the modem (yeah, you can use it) and XBox Live (already established, successful, high speed, and there is a good broadband penetration).

This is just one of those "Isn't this interesting" articles, sort of like those things about the similarities between Lincoln and Kennedy. While many of them are kind of eerie, many of the similarities are a stretch and you can see people were just reaching for another connection.

Re:Erm...no... (1)

r0bVious (923965) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963162)

Well, obviously #21 is the end-all. If a crazy-rich-bald guy isn't a solid connection, I don't know what is.

Re:Erm...no... (1)

Koiu Lpoi (632570) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963220)

This article is, well, pretty much utter crap.

Similarity #5: ran on a Windows based OS.

That's completly true, until you remember the fact that very, very few Dreamcast games ran on the Windows CE base. I'm not even sure the official webbrowser did!

Here's one that really gets me.

"Sorry Dreamcast fans, but the system's controller really wasn't that great."

Puh-lease. Look at the pictures! The controllers look nearly identical, save for

a) an extra stick

b) no VMU

c) placement of start buttons

Or, problem #5. "Wasn't backwards compatible."

Why would Sega have spent money on being backwards compatable with a failed system?

"Had tons of amazing games...but no Halo 3."

Right. Anybody ever played "Soul Calibur"? This article is biased crap.

They only mention in passing that one of the biggest reasons the Dreamcast failed was its lack of DVD support (and RAMPANT piracy). Remember back then? DVD players were still expensive. It was much more cost effective to buy a PS2 and get both a kicking game system and a DVD player in one box. Also, they failed to mention that the Dreamcast's launch in America was VERY different from the launch in Japan. But, if they mentioned that, part of their article would be obvious crap.

I think I'm done.

Version 2.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13962919)

If it failed miserably, how come there's now a version 2.0?

I just had the same thought yesterday (5, Funny)

Lord Byron II (671689) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962922)

The same thing occurred to me when I saw the white 360 controller in Walmart. "Is the Dreamcast back?" And then I saw the 360 logo. Interesting...

Re:I just had the same thought yesterday (2, Insightful)

zerocool^ (112121) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963054)


The article mentions that the XBOX 360 controller may be the best console controller ever. I can't see how it's possible. There are some games for which analog sticks are not the apex input device, and the D-pad on that controller looks horrible - it looks like the input on a logitech $9.99 usb controller. As long as the D-pad doesn't have at least a T-bar, instead of the circle of doom, it will never be as good as other controllers for fighting games.

Not to mention, it looks like they've been wishy-washy on what the controller for the left thumb is supposed to be. Is it supposed to be the D-pad, or the analog stick? Ugh. So instead, there's a big blank space where your thumb normally rests, and you have to stress yourself to move to either of the inputs. The buttons look too bubbly to be responsive... I dunno, it just looks like it was designed by marketing people to look slick, and then secondarily to fit the buttons on.

Sorry, but the PSX controller is the best controller ever made. To the point where I use them on my computer with an adapter to play games and emulators. Everything on the ps2 controller feels like it's in exactly the right spot. No controller compares; not the NES, SNES, dreamcast, sega, N-64, gamecube, XBOX, or any controller I've ever used on the computer. I'm not a playstation fanboy (i own a grand total of 3 playstation 2 games, and I didn't buy one of the things until 2 years after it was released), but Sony hit a homerun with that thing.

~Will

Similarities, or 'truth bending'? (1)

penguin_asylum (822967) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962933)

Some of these 'similarities' are just ridiculous. Crazy rich bald guy showing up everywhere?! The slight, mostly irrelavent similarities are far outweighed by the differences, which mostly would have an effect on sales.

Re:Similarities, or 'truth bending'? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13963179)

Yes, that's true, but more to the point you spelled "ridiculous" correctly.

Why 1UP won't be asked to dev the 360 interfaces (2, Insightful)

Dominic Burns (673810) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962939)

Because you'd have to be an 8 year old mathematical genius to figure out TFA.

Maybe it's because I'm old [33] or something but that article made little and/or no sense to me on any level.

Idiots.

Re:Why 1UP won't be asked to dev the 360 interface (1)

game kid (805301) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963064)

that article made little and/or no sense to me on any level.

Prove that an article can make little and no sense to you.

Pedantry aside, I fully understood the comparative list of pictures the article had: Peter Moore, the similar logos, the similar OSes, etc.

Re:Why 1UP won't be asked to dev the 360 interface (1)

Dominic Burns (673810) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963285)

Prove that an article can make little and no sense to you.

No.

#13 Marketing (5, Insightful)

the.Ceph (863988) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962940)

#13 on the list is "Peter Moore spearheaded the marketing" and most of the actual similarities seem like Marketing aspects of it so I think a better headline would read "How Peter Moore's marketing style resembles Peter Moore's marketing style"

Re:#13 Marketing (1)

romiz (757548) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963074)

#13 on the list is "Peter Moore spearheaded the marketing" and most of the actual similarities seem like Marketing aspects of it so I think a better headline would read "How Peter Moore's marketing style resembles Peter Moore's marketing style"

The fact that the chief of marketing for Dreamcast and XBox360 is the same person remains an interesting fact. And since "I've been responsible for launching a console that eventually forced my company out of the hardware buisness" is a far from splendid line on one's resume, I don't expect this man to boast much about it.

But I also expect Mr. Moore will be much more at ease with an "unlimited" marketing budget, compared with the $100 Mn that Sega allocated for the Dreamcast launch, according to the article. Especially when it comes to countering Sony claims of superiority, since those are widely regarded as one of the causes behind the failure of the Dreamcast.

Stupid stupid stupid (1)

fruitbane (454488) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962951)

What's obnoxious and stupid about comparisons and articles like this is that the Dreamcast didn't fail that badly in the US. In fact, the Dreamcast was still very much in the market in the US when it was declared to be killed off. It failed in Japan quite spectacularly, but the US market remained robust.

Re:Stupid stupid stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13962986)

You seem to have the US and Japan confused. Dreamcast games are still being released in Japan.

Re:Stupid stupid stupid (1)

kubevubin (906716) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963001)

Sega's financial troubles are ultimately what killed the Dreamcast. Had Sega been in a better financial position, they'd likely still be in the console race today. Hell, Atomiswave is simply a Dreamcast console with double the system RAM, and it's a pretty robust arcade board.

Re:Stupid stupid stupid (1)

ilyaaohell (866922) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963288)

It had nothing to do with money.

The Dreamcast failed for ONE SIMPLE REASON. Every single gamer in the entire world said to themselves: "Instead of spending $200 on this console, I'll wait and see what the PlayStation 2 is like."

No amount of marketing cash could POSSIBLY have EVER reversed this viewpoint for the vast majority of the people. Those on whom the marketing DID work for (hardcore gamers who buy every console anyway, and Sega fans) would've bought it even if Sega didn't promote the console at all.

If there's anything you can compare the Xbox 360 to here, it's that many people have already said to themselves: "Instead of spending $300 on this console, I'll wait and see what the PlayStation 3 is like."

Re:Stupid stupid stupid (1)

kubevubin (906716) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963379)

Not true. Dreamcast was still selling quite well (albeit at a lower price), and a good number of high-profile third-party titles were simultaneously in development for the Dreamcast and PlayStation 2. Furthermore, Dreamcast had plenty of support.

That's precisely why everyone was so surprised that Sega pulled the plug on Dreamcast. It wasn't doing poorly, and its online service (while primarily dialup) was still quite reliable. I just wish broadband adapters weren't so damn expensive now. ~_~

Define "Failing" (0, Troll)

Psx29 (538840) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962952)

The Xbox360 can never fail in the sense that dreamcast failed, the worst that can happen is that it fails in the way the original xbox failed. That is to say microsoft will just throw money at it and take big losses without much regard to profit.

Re:Define "Failing" (1)

jimmypw (895344) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963226)

The anoying thing is that the profit hit that the company as a whole will take would be like scratching a diamond with a toothpick.

Re:Define "Failing" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13963276)

Microsoft has already eased the worries of their investors by claiming that the XBox 360 will not be allowed to loose money on the same scale as the XBox was allowed to; the original XBox's losses were considered necessary in order to build a brand name in the market, not to defeat Sony. No company, no matter how big, can afford to continue loosing (approximatley) $200.00 per system in order to make it popular. Whether you believe it or not, in 2-3 years if the XBox 360 is not profitable and/or popular Microsoft will (probably) drop the product.

Let us hope it is as easy to mod as dreamcast (2, Informative)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962956)

As someone who recently picked up a second Dreamcast for my nephews,Let me say that I will only pick up an Xbox 360 if a good modding comunity springs up for it.Long after they quit shipping the DC I have found a new life for it playing emulated games with the boys and showing them what we played "Back in the day"

As DRM and other crap like lawsuits threaten the mod comunity I just hope they remember that cool mods help sell consoles.Half the fun is finding out what you can do with it BESIDES play games.If they cut that out I'll just build my boys new computers and forget about consoles.At least then I'll know they'll get as much use out of it as our trusty old DC.

Re:Let us hope it is as easy to mod as dreamcast (5, Informative)

jmcmunn (307798) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962994)


They don't care if your mods help sell consoles. They lose money on the consoles. They make the money on the software and accessories. So, by you modding the console, and buying nothing else (save for maybe a memory card to perform the 'raincoat mod' or something) they get nothing else from you. How is this good for them? Why is Microsoft happy that they sold more Xbox's to people when they lost so much money on each one? If you don't get Xbox live, don't buy games, and never get the latest greatest accessory, then they lose money on you. They couldn't care less that you are running Linux on it, or playing homebrew games that make them no money...

The only possible benefit is that if you modded their console, you are probably more likely to have modded the competitions console as well, and thus their competitor also lost money on you...

Now DRM is a little different, I find it annoying in most cases and believe that it doesn't really help stop piracy in most cases. And I am a software engineer, so I can relate to not wanting my stuff pirated. I know a lot of musicians who also beleive DRM is not the right way to solve the problem, we're all just waiting for a better alternative unfortunately.

Re:Let us hope it is as easy to mod as dreamcast (1)

SStrungis (629260) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963118)

One line from the article shines through... >> Can, and will, spend whatever it takes to make the Xbox 360 a success.

That company has money to burn on this. The previous poster is correct. "It's the games, stupid." The console is a loss, the GAMES are the $$ gain. It's like printers....Inkjets are cheap to buy (sometimes free)...The ink is the killer cost.

XB360 will not fail. Penetration into our kids' minds is too great...Plus, like it or not, they have Halo and KIDS (even old ones) LOVE Halo.

Now, if the console is like the DC, then I will look hard at it. I love my DC and use it almost daily. Bleemcast Gran Turismo is a lifesaver, and Metropolis Street Racer rocks.

Enough Rambling!
Scott

Re:Let us hope it is as easy to mod as dreamcast (1)

Have Blue (616) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963210)

There's another benefit to selling a console that gets modded- it pushes up the installed base numbers they use to make pitches to game companies and crow about their console's success in the media. The whole "I'll buy a loss leader console and never any games for it! Take that, evil megacorporation!" argument is stupid and will never make a meaningful negative impact on MS's bottom line.

Re:Let us hope it is as easy to mod as dreamcast (1)

nine-times (778537) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963371)

They don't care if your mods help sell consoles.

You don't mean that they don't care, right? You mean they aren't going to go out of their way to allow it. I'm sure they don't want you modding it to run Linux, because then, not only have you bought a $700 computer from them for $400 (or whatever the numbers are), but they've lost out on a potential sale of Windows.

Aimless articles (4, Funny)

Doomstalk (629173) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962967)

Has anyone else noticed that 1up excels at taking up 2 or 3 pages of space in their articles, despite never actually saying anything? They read like one of those papers you write in school when you aren't sure what you want to say, but you started writing anyway because it's due the next morning.

Mountain Due major sponser??? (1)

$cullyshouse (684136) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962981)

What will microsoft do in the uk, since its not been sold here since 1996!!!!

Some interesting parallels... (1)

QunaLop (861366) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962993)

some interesting parallels... but as many as half the things listed are common features or common sense, especially all the "features" you cannot play hd-dvd or blu-ray? well thats not available in the market anyways you can output in hd? what console would skip this? how many consoles no longer play previous gen games? so a racing game company is releasing a similar game to one it had released previously? OMG so it comes with a headset? that's very noteable :rolleyes: ... etc... some of these just really are stupid

Re:Some interesting parallels... (1)

pl1ght (836951) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963022)

Nintendo claims the revolution wont have HD support. Which would be the absolute death of the console. Not that i think it has much of a chance anyway.

Re:Some interesting parallels... (1)

Spaceman Spiff II (552149) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963228)

It'll work on an HDTV of course, and can for sure do 480p (they haven't finalized the decision for higher or not), but they just aren't doing 720p/1080i, in the hopes of keeping the system small, quiet, and cheap, and easy to develop for.

I really don't know what all the fuss is about, though. I don't have an HDTV and am not going to get one for a while -- I have a couple nicely working standard TVs. Besides, I played some Xbox 360 game at Best Buy yesterday at HD resolution, I think, and it wasn't all that spectacular. It was noticeably sharper, but still looked incredibly fake and so kind of weird.

Re:Some interesting parallels... (1)

Gogo0 (877020) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963394)

Actually, studios are begining to get early Revolution dev kits and are reporting 720p as being supported. Granted it could be pulled later, but at least it is there now.

As an HDTV owner I am pleased, but honestly it doesnt matter so much. If the game is fun then I tend to not notice if it has pillarboxes on the sides of the picture and just have fun playing. It is a nice bonus to have the picture in 16:9 and progressive scan, but I think it is stupid to buy a console because of the graphics or resolution rather than for the games.

Obviously (5, Funny)

vulcan_pupil (718417) | more than 8 years ago | (#13962996)

Of course it's true, that's an assignment statement, not a comparison ;). Sheesh.

Re:Obviously (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13963027)

Unless the Dreamcast == False which considering it's dead, it kind of does.

Excellent! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13963018)

The Dreamcast is one of my favourite consoles ever. Probably the worst thing that can be said about it is that it sounds like a wood chipper, but apart from that it was a fantastic piece of hardware with a lot of great games. I also still play mine regularly, and if the XBOX 360 is going to be anything like the Dreamcast then I'll probably be picking up one of those as well.

Let Me Add Reasons #24 and #25 (4, Funny)

Comatose51 (687974) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963028)

24: They both use electricity. 25: They both have the buttons on their controllers.

WTF? The stupid article is more fortune-telling than anything else. There's nothing technical or logical about the article. It's basically looking for signs of omens. If Mars is aligned on Venus' right on the launch date, the XBox 360 is bound to succeed....

Why it will succeed (5, Interesting)

squoozer (730327) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963035)

They saved the real reason it would succeed until the end. Piles and piles of cash. M$ would all but give the console away to make sure that it succeeded and that is the reason it will do well. People will have $10 worth of anything that is free.

Perhaps the rest of the PC industry could counter this rise of the console by designing a standard PC spec for gaming. First create a few simple categories. I suggest "PC Gaming Machine 2005 Level 1, 2 and 3". In each category spec out three of four machines (eg one amd with a nvidia, one intel with nvidia, etc) built with decent components. Level 1 machines have top of the range components, level 2 is where most people will be, level 3 is entry gaming. The games publishers could just test their game against these machines specs and get a tick in the "PC Gaming Machine 2005 Level 2 Compatible" (or whatever) box.

Simple, understandable and doesn't need to cost the Earth.

Re:Why it will succeed (1)

taxevader (612422) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963057)

"Perhaps the rest of the PC industry could counter this rise of the console by designing a standard PC spec for gaming. First create a few simple categories. I suggest "PC Gaming Machine 2005 Level 1, 2 and 3". In each category spec out three of four machines (eg one amd with a nvidia, one intel with nvidia, etc) built with decent components. Level 1 machines have top of the range components, level 2 is where most people will be, level 3 is entry gaming. The games publishers could just test their game against these machines specs and get a tick in the "PC Gaming Machine 2005 Level 2 Compatible" (or whatever) box."

Thats actually a brilliant idea. I'm going to do it.. I'll be rich, bitch. See you when I drive past you in my limo, sucker!

Re:Why it will succeed (1)

Donniedarkness (895066) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963138)

The problem with this is that different systems will of course run at different speeds, even if they have the same specs. It all depends on how well someone takes care of their computer.

For example, my friend has a P4 2.1 Ghz, 512 mb Pc-2100 ram, 80 Gb HD, and a Radeon 9200 (128mb). I, on the other hand, am running on a P3 1Ghz, 386 mb Pc-133 ram, and a Radeon 9200 (128mb). I run Warcraft (and pretty much everything else) MUCH more smoothly.

Re:Why it will succeed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13963223)

Perhaps the rest of the PC industry could counter this rise of the console by designing a standard PC spec for gaming. First create a few simple categories. I suggest "PC Gaming Machine 2005 Level 1, 2 and 3".

This was tried before, with the "Multimedia PC" standards. Remember those logos? MPC, MPC2, etc:

http://www.computerhope.com/jargon/m/mpc.htm [computerhope.com]

bullshit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13963037)

"Faced a "far superior" next-generation PlayStation console that wowed gamers with fancy tech demos."

my ass, dreamcast blows away all playstations, including PS3, it had amazing gfx, playstation always sucks

Dreamcast: (5, Insightful)

taxevader (612422) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963038)

Best. Console. Ever.

If the xbox 360 can have half the amount of original games that the Dreamcast had, I'm getting one.

And yes, even though I hate Microsoft, Sony has become the new Evil. DRM on *everything* seems to be their goal, and the PS3 will be the ultimate foot-in-the door in their quest to lock down all things digital.

Blu-Ray. Just say no!

Sony DRM? (1)

HalAtWork (926717) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963135)

If Sony's DRM is supported, and MS's DRM is supported (don't forget, they want to DRM everything too), and Sony and MS don't like cooperating because they are competitors, there will have to be a way to get Sony and MS products to talk to each other, which will mean there will probably be more people willing to work on stripping the DRM.

If MS's DRM is going to get lots of support, make sure other vendors' products will too, otherwise they will just standardize on MS's DRM and everyone will be forced to go through them. However with their past marketing experience on proprietary technologies (memory stick, minidisc, atrac-3, etc) it doesn't seem like Sony's DRM will become ubiquitous. Granted it will be in their most popular product (PS3), but outside of the actual console and movies, where would the DRM be used? It's not like the same DRM technology will be used to encode documents and e-books and stuff that doesn't have to do with the PS3 or movies, so how would Sony's DRM gain the support needed to have it invade your life the way DRM applied to Microsoft products would?

If it's being used on the most popular games and movies on the PS3 and Blu-Ray... games and movies have a HUGE history of being warezed ASAP, so Sony's DRM will most likely be circumvented and not have much impact.

Re:Dreamcast: (1)

xhrit (915936) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963194)

The ps3 will run linux. Just like the ps2. I can't say no to that.

Re:Dreamcast: (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963248)

I don't understand the no-Blu-ray stance in a post largely complaining about DRM, because then you should say no HD-DVD too because they both use the exact same DRM system. Microsoft is a major proponent of DRM as well.

I don't think you should be advocating one lizard over another, even if it's not the wrong lizard, it's still a lizard.

Submission was retarded (4, Insightful)

Liquidrage (640463) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963051)

Listing fluffy similarities between two systems isn't "pretty scary". It's pretty easy to do when you set your standards for a similarity at such a meaninglessly low level.

OMG!! Both were white systems when the previous generations were black. Noooz!!!

Calling the PS3 "far superior at this point is rediculous. Mentioning "hi-def" when the Dreamcast was released before there was basically any hi-def sets in homes and when the PS3 is also supporting hi-def is moronic.

The article itself was so fluffy I can't believe it made it to the front page. But hey, if you didn't RTFA in this case it only takes aobut 20 seconds and there's lots of little pictures to help you out.

Biased much? (5, Insightful)

AndreiK (908718) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963084)

Hmm, I read it, but then put it down in disgust on reason number 7:

D: Had tons of amazing games...but no Halo 3.
X: Will have Halo 3. And it will be huge.


That point being given to the XBox? To put it bluntly, this is biased crap.

Re:Biased much? (2, Insightful)

SharpFang (651121) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963133)

That point being given to the XBox? To put it bluntly, this is biased crap.

Yes. It's biased. The sad part is it's true though.
Put enough money in marketing crap and people will buy it. Halo may not live up to expectations of customers, but it will live up to expectations of sales dept.

Yikes! (4, Interesting)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963102)

For those who read TFA... did you notice that the Time Magazine shown in #10 [nyud.net] has Bill Gates behind the 360 resembling the all-famous Borg image? *shudder*

In any case, I'd rather have bill gates selling a famous videogame console rather than forcing a crappy operating system down our throats.

Re:Yikes! (1)

polyp2000 (444682) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963294)

In any case, I'd rather have bill gates selling a famous videogame console rather than forcing a crappy operating system down our throats.

Just what operating system do you think will be making the XBOX 360 tick?

rulr0z (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13963111)

/ You seem to try to create a gaming \
\ console. May I help you?           /

        \     ____
         \   / __ \
          \  O|  |O|
             ||  | |
             ||  | |
             ||    |
              |___/

Re:rulr0z (1)

zdzichu (100333) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963323)

Best comment I've seen here in years :)

23 parallels (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13963140)

Illuminati! I'll have to put on my tin-foil hat.

ahead of its time... (3, Interesting)

Ares Halcyon (632312) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963153)

So, if one of the biggest problems faced by the original Dreamcast was that is was ahead of its time for some of its features like online play, then I'd say the timing for the 360 is just about perfect!

Saw the 360 yesterday... (1)

solive1 (799249) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963178)

I saw the 360 yesterday at Best Buy. Honestly, I wasn't all that impressed. It looks like they gave it a video card upgrade and put it in a new shell. It had a FPS war game demo on it (can't remember the name, maybe Medal of Honor 2? The game is out on the current gen's consoles). Naturally, there were a bunch of people around it because it's The Next Big Thing(R) supposedly. Same controller, new video card. I can get the same experience by putting a new video card in my computer, at equal or lesser price.

I really enjoyed the dreamcast (2, Insightful)

digitallysick (922589) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963184)

I was displeased with the sega saturn, i think that was a turn off for alot of people for the dreamcast. I really enjoyed the dreamcast, i spent countless days playing tony hawk pro skater, sonic, GTA 2, powerstone, Marvel vs capcom etc, when they said they were no longer going to support it, it was very disappointing, the graphics were good, i enjoyed the controler (compared to the N64 which i hated) I think giving up the gamesystem was a mistake for the dreamcast, they finally got one that people actually liked, i guess they couldn't compete with Sony's mega millions

Money Talks (0, Flamebait)

lotusleaf (928941) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963234)

Just remember, Linux/FOSS lovers, every purchase you make supports someone else's philosophies. The road to 360 leads to 666.

#16 is Utterly Preposterous! (5, Funny)

craXORjack (726120) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963252)

Mountain Dew is in no way similar to Pepsi. Drawing a parallel between the two is absolutely ridiculous. Mountain Dew is gathered by hand only from the freshest clover leaves in the unspoiled Smokey Mountains of Tennessee. It was the official drink of the original olympic games. It is versatile. It can substitute for blood plasma during emergencies or natural disasters. Pepsi, however, is nothing but sugar water with brown food coloring.

I love the Dreamcast (2, Insightful)

Okeeblow (928833) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963298)

TFA seems to really be picking on the Dreamcast, but I always loved it. Its controller is still my favorite. To this day I use it to play some amazing games via the VGA box, such as Sonic Adventure (the last really great Sonic game), Seaman, or Jet Set Radio.

Dreamcast developed on Mac? (1)

xanadu113 (657977) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963333)

Yeah, but.. were Dreamcast games developed on a Mac?

Xbox 360 games are... [teamxbox.com]

I miss SEGA (1)

Ofenza (928943) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963350)

It's a shame SEGA is no longer in the console market. I owned a Game Gear, Mega Drive and a Sega Saturn (I chose the Sega Saturn over the PS1.) and I would certainly still chose a SEGA console over the competition these days if there were one. I think it's mainly because as a SEGA fan I was a natural anti-Nintendo and now all I see is Nintendo (PS, xbox, etc = nintendo for me, got it?).
Ok, maybe I'm just being way too radical but, seriously, how can anyone chose Mario over Sonic? Sonic rocks\m/

I bet Apple will buy SEGA someday and launch a console that will kick the competition's asses. Apple + SEGA, that would be sweet.

tottaly off topic, I know..

(my first post on /. so please be kind or just ignore it)

Did Dreamcast Tech Support (1)

Jeng (926980) | more than 8 years ago | (#13963377)

Or more factually, Complaint Management.

A couple things that helped kill the Dreamcast that I haven't seen listed yet.

1. Incompatibility issues within different versions of the Dreamcast with older and newer Dreamcast games. The motherboard got changed during the Dreamcast run which made it so some of the older games weren't working on some of the newer Dreamcasts, along with some of the older Dreamcasts not working with some of the newer games since the newer games were speced to the newer system. Standard line we gave people calling in complaining that their games didn't work was to go back to the store and exhange the game for a new one, we should have been telling them to go back to the store and exchange their dreamcast for a new one.

2. After market controllers would blow out the controller ports.

3. Very easy to copy games.

I doubt that the 360 will have problems 1 or 3, but would be interesting if it ends up with #2.
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