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French Riots Lead to Crackdown on Blogs

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the can't-talk dept.

Censorship 1020

Browncoat writes "Wired reports that because of the recent riots in France, authorities have shut down a blog called Hardcore, whose participants have allegedly violating a French law concerning violent speech. Many bloggers fear there will be consequences for them if they are outspoken, even if it is in a nonviolent way. From the article: 'Ahmed Meguinia, a political activist who saw some of the Paris region's hardest-hit areas during the past week, said many bloggers feared prosecution for publishing even nonviolent content. While not condoning blogs that incited violence, he said that there was a lack of media coverage explaining why ethnically segregated inhabitants of some of France's poorest cities have been driven to riot. Instead, the world repeatedly sees CNN images of burning cars and shops, he said.'"

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FIST SPORT! (0, Flamebait)

ringbarer (545020) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997204)

Niggers and islamics keep going on about 'Respect'. Well, maybe they should try being Respectable for a change, instead of the savage parasites that destroy any city they infest.

Wherever they go, islamics are nothing but trouble, and are ALWAYS up to no good.

Fist (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997205)

Fist post?
Could this be possible?

First Post (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997215)

First post.

They better stop the riots all right (-1, Troll)

cra (172225) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997217)

Of course, the free speach should weigh heavy, but they should dampen the ones that try to fuel the fire.

Re:They better stop the riots all right (3, Insightful)

Shakrai (717556) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997282)

Of course, the free speach should weigh heavy, but they should dampen the ones that try to fuel the fire.

Bullshit! There is no valid reason to restrict speech unless it presents an immediate danger and serves no valid point of discussion (yelling fire in a movie theater).

Simply banning all speech that might be "violent" is a very slippery slope. It would probably have made it illegal for me to encourage people to take to the streets to protest the Florida fiasco in 2000. They might do better by looking at the reason why these people are rioting in the first place. Perhaps because they feel cheated by the system? Perhaps because they aren't even allowed to wear their religious headwear to school anymore?

As a sidenote: I don't ever want to hear people slime the United States again. It's rather interesting that Muslim youth over here aren't rioting -- even though we are the ones "at war" with certain followers of that faith. Perhaps that's because we have better religious freedom?

Re:They better stop the riots all right (1)

UnruheRevan (930038) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997411)

Well my understanding of the thing is that they never were allowed to wear those in the first place (since the laïcité law from the early 1900s).

Re:They better stop the riots all right (1)

Shakrai (717556) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997455)

Well my understanding of the thing is that they never were allowed to wear those in the first place (since the laïcité law from the early 1900s).

If that's the case then perhaps they should have repealed that law instead of adding to it? How can you claim to have true religious freedom and care about Human Rights otherwise?

Re:They better stop the riots all right (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997418)

Or maybe Europe is closer in location and historic ties to the muslim parts of the world than the US is? Maybe this has nothing to do with a war, but more with a large influx of muslims seeking riches, but not finding it?

Re:They better stop the riots all right (3, Insightful)

theStorminMormon (883615) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997484)

1. I think by dampen the ones that try to fuel the fire he probably meant the ones that were explicitly inciting further violence. So we're (you, me and parent) are probably in agreement that those specific guys could have their free speech rights truncated in interests of greater public safety.

2. Perhaps that's because we have better religious freedom? I think more than just religious freedom it might have to do with the fact that the French state is a secular one. When they beheaded their king back in the French Revolution they were not just doing away with the monarchy, they were also symbolically dethroning God. Ever since they have had an aggressively secular government. So it's no wonder that a minority group that is extremely religious feels at odds with a government that borders on anti-religious.

This is in contrast with American government, which was not founded as a secular state. People who say it was are misreading the Constitution and ignoring history. I'm not saying it was Christian, but it was at least fundamentally theist. Just read the Declaration of Independence. Thomas Jefferson, certainly not a Christian by any conventional standard, began attending a Christian church when he was president. Why? He explained that he felt that the Christian faith tended towards the betterment of society and thus it was up to him to set a good example and attent. The "seperation of church and state" was really only intended to be a seperation between the state and any specific establishment of religion - not to set the state against religion or expel God from the state.

There are dangers in giving into the demands of the religious right - ID and all the nonesense. But by the same token, if we allow America to continue to be secularized (ala banning the Pledge of Allegiance and essentially declaring the Declaration of Independence itself to be ruled "unconstitutional") we are perhaps setting the stage to follow France towards an inevitable confrontation between the forces of religion and atheism.

I'm not saying that it is only religious tension that has resulted in the French violence, but it is certainly an exacerbating element.

-stormin

Re:They better stop the riots all right (1)

estebanf (814656) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997313)

Of course, the free speach should weigh heavy, but they should dampen the ones that try to fuel the fire.

As nobody is complety objective, so how is "interpreted free speach" will be free?

Re:They better stop the riots all right (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997326)

Whatever. Let's be totally honest here; the French response to the riots has been totally, utterly useless. Without exception. They have no idea how to even start to tackle the rioters, because they don't even understand what the riots are about. To be fair, it's unlikely many of the rioters themselves even understand what they're rioting about.

The French authorities are shooting in the wind, wildly trying to be seen doing something, even if it's totally useless and almost certainly contravines the European Charter on Human Rights. This is simply one of the many examples of the shot-in-the-dark shotgun effect that the authorities have employed, because they don't know what else to do.

Re:They better stop the riots all right (1)

Pieroxy (222434) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997410)

The best part is: "Many bloggers fear there will be consequences for them if they are outspoken, even if it is in a nonviolent way".

People can fear what they want, I don't care. Free speech - just as everything else - has limits. And it is illegal (in France) to try to incite people to violence, specially against police, firemen, etc... These two guys deserved to go down. They did. All is well.

If only the rest of France could be that straightforward...

where they draw the line (2, Informative)

Original Replica (908688) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997489)

A different Wired article explains the official line between free speech and inciting violence. "The Council of Europe has adopted a measure that would criminalize Internet hate speech, including hyperlinks to pages that contain offensive content." "Specifically, the amendment bans "any written material, any image or any other representation of ideas or theories, which advocates, promotes or incites hatred, discrimination or violence, against any individual or group of individuals, based on race, colour, descent or national or ethnic origin, as well as religion if used as pretext for any of these factors."

Ethnically segregated? (5, Insightful)

RandoX (828285) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997221)

That's a loaded term. Show me where France forced ethnicities into certain parts of the city, Warsaw Ghetto style. People live wherever they can afford to. Guess what? Beverly Hills is 'ethnically segregated' too.

Re:Ethnically segregated? (5, Funny)

wpiman (739077) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997259)

Beverly Hills, that's where I want to be.

Truth is, I don't stand a chance. It's something that your born into and I just don't belong.

Re:Ethnically segregated? (1)

grasshoppa (657393) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997381)

No I don't.

I'm just a no class, beat down fool. And I will always be that way.

Re:Ethnically segregated? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997267)

Yeah, but at least they have hip, street-talkin' Black cops from the big city that stop by to solve crime, at least if the movies are true.

Re:Ethnically segregated? (5, Insightful)

deacon (40533) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997343)

The French state owns 30% of all housing. These people are dependents of the French state. They live where they are told.

That's not the cause of the trouble, however.

An all-pervasive nanny state which results in huge unemployment and no hope for advancement, A French elite mentality that Africans are sub-human, and endless dicking around with muliticultiralism which has allowed the formation of an African state within France, have given the results seen for the last two weeks.

From the land of "let them eat cake" (1)

S. Baldrick (565691) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997355)

Beverly Hills is certainly "ethnically segregated" How does that have any bearing on whether Paris is ethnically segragated or not? This doesn't have to be as a result of laws. France probably has the same issues of extreme poverty and illiteracy, a culture of dependency caused by welfare, and white flight from inner cities just as the USA does. The difference is here it is atleast acknowledged and discussed even if grudingly at times.

In contrast the french attitude seems to be either "there is no problem" or "atleast we're not america"

Well the Frenchifada is the direct result of choosing not to face the problem.

What happens when a city/country has 30% turnover? (5, Insightful)

SgtChaireBourne (457691) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997435)

Indeed. Some countries made an effort to distribute their transmigrants evenly around the country. However, many take issue with ending up in a small town or out in the country, so they move to the city, creating their own ghettos. Sweden is one example. Language and cultural problems then create further isolation. I say transmigrants because many (far from all, but definitely many) have no intention of adopting the language, culture or values of their new country. merely creating a defacto colony in a new territory.

Denmark has had really severe problems with that, but so far the groups fight eachother. None of the European countries have faced up to the transmigration problem and still handle them and immigrants alike under antiquated immigration laws designed to handle a slow trickle of individuals back in the 1950's. No system is really in place to get the people new job skills for those that need it, proper language skills, and an acceptance or appreciation of existing values and mores.

As a result, you get situations like in the Netherlands where each of the 4 largest cities in the country have a first generation immigrant/transmigration populations of over 40% each. Or in Malmö, Sweden where Swedes are now the single largest ethnic minority, even counting second generation immigrants/transmigrants as Swedes, regardless of assimilation.

There is also the problem of double standards. Any questioning or criticism of the system results in personal verbal attacks and accusations of intolerance. Any criticism of the behaviour of the new comers is likewise attacked with accusations of intolerance and racism. In contrast, newcomers can get away with statements and actions that would put a 'native' in serious legal trouble, resulting in jail or fines. That has to stop and the reality of the situation be looked at as well as the intended goals.

How does importing 5 million transmigrants into a country of 5 million or even 60 million help the situation for either the people (both new and old) in the new country or those left in the country they have escaped from? We all know what happens to a business if there is high turn over, what about whole cities or countries?

Re:Ethnically segregated? (3, Insightful)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997472)

It is a little bit more complex than you are stating. What people in the US don't understand is that these people can never be "French".

In the US if you are born in the US you are an American citizen. In much of the EU that even if your father and mother where born in that country and you where born in that country you are still not a citizen! I don't know what the status in France is for people from North Africa since those where at one time French colonies.

As too which system is better? It is hard to come to the US to work. But it is easier to be a citizen. I like the US system but to each their own.

The you put racism into the mix. One of the great myths is that Europe is more racially tolerant than the US. I think this rioting show that is not true. Europe is only now having to deal with racial diversity. It is easy to be tolerant when your minority population is tiny. It takes a lot of hard work and soul searching when the minorities get large enough to form sub cultures. I do think it is worth the effort but that is a US point of view.

That's what you get ... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997229)

... when you live in a freedom-hating socialist cesspool of a country. I hope everything within its borders burns to a crisp.

Political correctness (1, Funny)

wpiman (739077) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997231)

We in America call them the "Freedom Riots" (tm).

Pandering Rewards? (0, Flamebait)

Ritz_Just_Ritz (883997) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997233)

It's interesting to see what goodwill (none) France has gotten by pandering to the Islamists. Perhaps that will influence future French behaviour when dealing with radical Islamic states. Hope springs eternal.

Re:Pandering Rewards? (4, Informative)

marsperson (909862) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997333)

You must mean the way they pandered to them by banning headscarves...

Anyway, what does the rioting have to do with Islam, anyway? It's a social issue, not a religious one. Many of the rioters come from eastern europe and black africa, not just the magrehb. I suppose you think they all became islamists suddenly...

Re:Pandering Rewards? (2, Insightful)

athmanb (100367) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997338)

Which idiot modded that insightful? The riots have nothing to do with religion - they're standard poverty riots just like Brixton 1985 and LA 1992, and you seriously have to stop masturbating about trying to evoke a global culture war at every opportunity you see.

Re:Pandering Rewards? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997409)

well thats funny, the rioters are pretty much mostly muslim...other ethnicities are just as poor, just as dependant on a welfare state that our Liberals want to believe works, but is shown to be a failure, ala New Orleans and now France.

Re:Pandering Rewards? (2, Insightful)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997425)

Poverty riots? So they're not on generous welfare? They don't have enough
food to eat? They don't all have TVs? They arn't all , in general , far
better off than if they or their parents had stayed in their backwards
african slum? Gimme a break. These riots are the standard issue "poor little
us" youth riots , with a bunch of witless adolescents feeling sorry for
themselves and so have to take it out on the state because they're too thick
to see the real cause of their unemployment is in the mirror.

Re:Pandering Rewards? (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997487)

IMHO it's a culture clash between natives and immigrants, and not about Islam in particular. Europe will see a lot of this as their birth rates are below sustainment, prompting high immigration and sweeping cultural change. In other words Europe is being assimilated. In the US there is also some tension, but I think we have largely accepted the fact that there is no fixed US culture per se, it's just whoever happens to live here at the moment.

Re:Pandering Rewards? (0)

MasterPoof (876056) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997339)

Hmm.... it seems they have learned well from the US.

Insightful? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997348)

That's not even a flamebait, it's plain stupid.

There is no "radical islamic state" that is rioting in France, it's 1% hopeles people that started, and 99% idiots that love setting their (also poor and hopeless) neighbours car on fire.

Re:Pandering Rewards? (1)

gowen (141411) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997349)

Pointing out that Iraq didn't have WMD and banning Muslims from wearing headscarves in school qualifies as "pandering to Islamists" does it?

Go back to FauxNews, you unimformed pillock.

Re:Pandering Rewards? (1)

flyinwhitey (928430) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997445)

"Pointing out that Iraq didn't have WMD and banning Muslims from wearing headscarves in school qualifies as "pandering to Islamists" does it?"

How sad is it that you can't discuss France and Islam without feeling the need to blather on about Iraq and WMD's. Could we possibly try to stay on the subject, that is failed immigration and integration policies, and poor planning? Could we please not inject our own irrelevant drivel into the conversation?

The FACT is, French police allowed many of these areas to become "no law" zones.

I don't care what your political bent is, I don't care that you have a bug up your butt about Bush and the US, the only thing that matters is THEY ALLOWED THESE AREAS TO BECOME NO LAW ZONES.

If that's not pandering to them, then they need to change the definition of pandering.

Re:Pandering Rewards? (1)

gowen (141411) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997477)

Mate, I agree with you. I was disagreeing with the point about "pandering to Islamists". This isn't about radical Islam: it's about racism and poverty. Much like every inner city riot in the Western world has been, since Watts.

Re:Pandering Rewards? (1)

Shakrai (717556) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997392)

It's interesting to see what goodwill (none) France has gotten by pandering to the Islamists. Perhaps that will influence future French behaviour when dealing with radical Islamic states. Hope springs eternal.

I love your insightful score because it's about time reality hit France but in all seriousness these riots have nothing to do with French foreign policy.

They have everything to do with these people feeling screwed over by the system. They have no money, they live in the worst neighborhoods, they are scorned and spit on (as many immigrants have been throughout history). The French did themselves no favors with the ban on religious headwear either.

And you shouldn't forget that this whole mess started because French police stopped a group of people doing absolutely nothing wrong just so they could check immigrant IDs. Two of them ran away and died when they hid in an electrical substation. Say what you will about the United States but if our police/INS officers started randomly stopping people just to check if they had Green Cards there would be an outrage. I don't see any outrage in the French press -- other then that directed at the people who are getting screwed over to begin with.

Re:Pandering Rewards? (1)

Mo Bedda (888796) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997397)

It's interesting to see what goodwill (none) France has gotten by pandering to the Islamists. Perhaps that will influence future French behaviour when dealing with radical Islamic states.

Huh? I don't call banning their religeous observation [cnn.com] , pandering. Were you referring to Iraq? They weren't a "radical Islamic state". They are moving that way now, but we don't like to talk about that. Otherwise, the French have been fighting in Afganistan. [centcom.mil]

So perhaps you can explain what you mean?

Re:Pandering Rewards? (1)

TheNoxx (412624) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997400)

What? Another troll modded insightful?

I'm supposing that "pandering" was inexorably redefined to "not setting up fascist dictatorships for some 30-odd years to help thieve the oil from blindingly poor Islamic countries and violently oppress the resistant few before finally forcing what appears to be democracy at last into a single country in the middle of the desert through mass-bombing"

Re:Pandering Rewards? (1)

mbbac (568880) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997432)

What pandering, exactly?

the US is next (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997240)

because the Feds can't stand the heat.

Re:the US is next (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997396)

I daresay the situation in the US might play out differently.
Pretty chilling to think of some of the major gangs in the US getting out of hand.
The Malvo thing a couple of years ago, where two dudes in a Malibu terrorized the greater DC area, really didn't stir the local populace to action. (I live in northern Virgnia, and saw little evidence of attitude other than 'let the authorities handle it'). Step that up to widespread unrest, though, and it might play out differently. That 'silent majority' with all of those small caliber tributes to the 2nd Ammendment in the closet might quickly take events along a different course. I'm by no means advocating such. When the rule of law disintegrates, it gets hard to distinguish the good, the bad, and the ugly.

So why DO they riot, anyway? (-1, Troll)

karji (114631) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997242)

? Why?

Re:So why DO they riot, anyway? (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997299)

And why doesn't the french government talk about that?

Re:So why DO they riot, anyway? (3, Interesting)

dptalia (804960) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997327)

This is a very good article on some of the reasons behind the rioting:
A French War of the Worlds [jewishworldreview.com]
The author has lived in France for several decades and this is what he says:

In a nation that insists immigrants accept the monolithic secular French culture, a great divide has grown. Part of it is the insular nature of Islamic North African culture. But much of it is that "French" France still rejects its North African countrymen.

They don't get good jobs or decent financial opportunities. Their unemployment rate is often as high as 50%. There isn't a single Frenchman or Frenchwoman of North African origin (or black, for that matter) in the cabinet, and only a handful hold any position of rank in the civil and commercial bureaucracy. There are virtually no black or Arab anchors on French TV, or North African cultural presence in the theater or cinema.

This has further angered the Muslim population, driving it deeper into its own ghetto mentality and to communal violence. When I first came to France 50 years ago, North African immigrants spoke Maghreb Arabic, but their French-born children proudly spoke French. Today, the beurs, the young French-born generation of North Africans, talk to each other in Arabic.

Why a troll? (1)

ylikone (589264) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997384)

This parent is not a troll! That is a very valid question that is not being talked about enough in the major media.

Re:So why DO they riot, anyway? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997391)

It's France. The rioters are supposedly too poor to go on strike properly.

Re:So why DO they riot, anyway? (1)

Viper Daimao (911947) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997393)

one of the reasons is unemployment. France's national unemployment is around 8 or 10%. If you look only at young 20 somethings, then the unemployment is almost double that, and if you look at young 20 something immigrants, then its double that or so, almost 40% I think. Another reason I've heard are drug dealers and such criminals using the violence to keep the cops out of their turf. As of right now there is little suggesting islamic or jihadi influence as a cause of the riots. However I would bet that al qaeda and other radical islamic organizations are taking notice of the riots and planning. Here's [truthlaidbear.com] a topic page with links to mostly right wing blog posts about the riots. Also, I recommend reading Jim Dunnigan In France, It's Not Jihad, and Never Has Been [strategypage.com] who's usually fairly insightful. And of course a link to my favorite blogger, Instapundit [instapundit.com]

Re:So why DO they riot, anyway? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997492)

The rioters are mostly /completely(?) Muslim. There is a Jihad going on in Europe, although most people don't really know it or are too afraid to "discriminate" to do anything about it. Note that not a single mosk burned down, but churches were attacked. The French even offered the Muslims something of their own governance in the affected suburbs in response to the riots.
In the not so far away future Europe will be fully Islamized. France is already 10% Muslim, mostly young people who will get children of their own in the coming years. Native Europeans are getting very little children today and the large "babyboom" generation is nearing the end of their lives. This ethnic war will be won by demographics and apathy.
I am not going to wait until the Islamofascists grab power and probably migrate away from this continent. I would stay if my fellow Europeans weren't such willing Dhimmis.

I always try to find blogs with pertinent info... (1)

acidfast7 (551610) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997244)

for any big event.

The coverage on blogs from New Orleans was excellent IMHO.

Can anyone direct me, and the rest of Slashdot, to a decent blog concerning this event?

Thanks in advance.

Re:I always try to find blogs with pertinent info. (4, Informative)

Viper Daimao (911947) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997414)

Here's [truthlaidbear.com] a topic page with links to mostly right wing blog posts about the riots. Also, I recommend reading Jim Dunnigan In France, It's Not Jihad, and Never Has Been [strategypage.com] who's usually fairly insightful. And of course a link to my favorite blogger, Instapundit [instapundit.com] and finally The Belmont Club [blogspot.com] has a few posts about it, just scroll down.

Heh don't you worry Australia might follow one day (0, Offtopic)

kitkatsavvy (921998) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997252)

With all of these industrial ir reforms, welfare reforms, and terror reforms, soon I'll be getting arrested for calling little Johnny a loser on my blog as well. I'm sure that they won't find EVERY blog that is being written by French people - GO FREEDOM of SPEECH (while it lasts)!!

Vive La Resistance! (1, Funny)

BHearsum (325814) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997253)

Wouldn't it be ironic of France of all places was the starting point for a global uprising?

Re:Vive La Resistance! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997352)

You mean like how they inspired a bunch of slave-owners to rebel against british rule 200 years ago?

Re:Vive La Resistance! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997407)

Actually... no.

Do a little reading on the international impact of the French revolution. The social and political impact across Europe was immense. Even though the revolution didn't, as many at the time hoped or feared, spark off a wave of "copycat" revolutions across the continent, it provided the framework for many of the social struggles that marked the 19th century. The lessons it delivered regarding both the dangers of aristocratic excess and also the horrors that could be inflicted by an unchecked popular uprising almost certainly provided a moderating influence in many other nations and led to a great deal of gradual compromise that many not have occured otherwise.

Personally, I don't see the current riots having anything like the same degree of importance, but time will tell.

French censorship? (2, Funny)

TheNoxx (412624) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997257)

Thought I'd never see the day. Well, the French certainly do need a creative boost, and nothing gets the literary talents of Europe fermenting like a good upheaval of society and oppression of the lower classes. Maybe even ol' Bushie will make a cameo with Chirac and offer the dregs of society some cake 'n pie.

Before y'all get TOO worked up... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997271)

... we have laws against inciting violence here, and most other places have the same deal.

If some American blog advocated setting fire to police stations and lynching Dick & George, it would also be "cracked down" upon.

Let's not get all hypocritical here.

Re:Before y'all get TOO worked up... (1)

amliebsch (724858) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997329)

I disagree. Said blog would have to be proven to be a credible and imminent incitement to violence, that is, that the speech is a "clear and present danger" (that's from the SCOTUS case of Brandenburg v. Ohio. Mere advocacy of violence or subversion is still protected.

Re:Before y'all get TOO worked up... (0, Flamebait)

Luscious868 (679143) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997336)

If some American blog advocated setting fire to police stations and lynching Dick & George, it would also be "cracked down" upon.

Wrong! Have you tried visiting any liberal discussion groups or blogs for the last 5 years? Give this [democratic...ground.com] bastion of Bush love a shot then talk to me about how our speech is restricted in the US.

Re:Before y'all get TOO worked up... (4, Insightful)

RsG (809189) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997419)

Just to point out the obvious, the united states isn't in the middle of domestic upheaval. If there were violent riots in the US, and the site you linked was actually advocating it (as is the case with TFA), then yes I fully expect they would be hit with the same consequences. That isn't to say that there is any actual connection between the bloggers and the violence (that would have to be proven in court), but it's not as if authorities in the 'states are any less prone to overreacting.

If muslims were rioting in the suburbs of washington, and some bloggers were advocating it, they probably would be in the same boat.

I wonder... (1)

TinBromide (921574) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997276)

You suppose that the french bloggers will have to download and use the french blog with tips on how to get the word out through an oppressive regime?

It was released just in time! Any later and they would have had to delay it due to them working out issues in free speech.

Ma 6-T a cra-cké (1)

Zutroi_Zatatakowsky (513851) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997283)

It had to happen someday.

Exactly the problem (2, Insightful)

QuaintRealist (905302) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997288)

So the French Government sticks it to the politically powerless bloggers. Will they also forbid those same images on CNN referenced in the blurb? I would be willing to bet that more potential rioters got their initial impressions from the mainstream media than from blogs.

Of course, you cannot coordinate attacks on CNN, but shutting down blogs will be not only ineffective but counterproductive. A well-informed security service would be monitoring the blogs and spiking them with false info to make arrests.

OK, I'd prefer those who do the wrong thing to be stupid rather than clever...

Thank god for France! (1, Troll)

Anita Coney (648748) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997293)

Destroying property, raping, killing people, all of those are bad. But when these radicals go so far as to EXPRESS OPINIONS on the internet. Well, they've gone to far. Let's hope France does the world a favor and puts these radicals to death!

Get the facts (5, Informative)

PeDRoRist (639207) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997469)

I'm french. I live in Paris.
As I understand it from reading the news today, those blogs (ran by kids respectively 18, 16, and 14 years old) were taken down and their authors were arrested not because they expressed opinions but because they called for more violence and murdering of police officers (namely by setting them on fire).
Which is illegal according to french laws.
Law broken. Law breaker arrested. I fail to see what the big deal is.

Why riots? Labor laws (4, Interesting)

G4from128k (686170) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997303)

Many of the rioters live in areas with 30% unemployment. French labor laws make labor expensive (high wages, 35 hour work week, long vacations) and risky -- if you can't easily fire someone, you're going to think twice about hiring them.

France may be a worker's paradise, but only if you if have a job.

Re:Why riots? Labor laws (2, Informative)

dptalia (804960) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997360)

Actually, from what I've read, unemployment is more like 50%. Add to it that there is little or no represntation of the north african imigrant in the upper echelons of government, and it's understandable why there's dissatisfaction.

They're rioting because they're troublemakers (0, Flamebait)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997306)

They're no worse off than a load of white French , they're just playing
the discrimination card in the way minorities do when they want something
from the majority. Best thing to do with these rioters is to shoot then.
Rioting would soon stop then , either because they'd be scared or because
after a while there wouldn't be any of them left to riot.

Re:They're rioting because they're troublemakers (0, Offtopic)

Hrvat (307784) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997366)

Please mod parent funny or (since I do think he's serious) flamebait... either that or lock him up.

Re:They're rioting because they're troublemakers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997401)

>>Please mod parent funny or (since I do think he's serious) flamebait... either that or lock him up.

Glad to see a French government party official has time to read /.

Re:They're rioting because they're troublemakers (1)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997463)

Here we go , out of the closet comes the liberal. I was being serious.
If you have rioters threatening and killing innocent people and causing
mayhem then the best solution is a bullet.

Re:They're rioting because they're troublemakers (1)

Donniedarkness (895066) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997439)

...And that's just going to lead to an uprising. If you really believe they are wrong, then you don't want this to happen, right?

Also, if they shoot them, I would HOPE that neighboring countries would look into it and see if these people really are being descriminated against.

Re:They're rioting because they're troublemakers (1)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997488)

"And that's just going to lead to an uprising."

Hello?? Knock knock?? Have you been watching the news recently??
G7 rioters were shot in Genoa , no reason the same can't be done
on these morons who are causing far more trouble. Wake up!

"Driven" to riot? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997308)

That's like saying Osama Bin Laden was "driven" to attack the WTC. Or the people who attacked London in July were "driven" to it by the victims.

Many ( but centainly not all) of these rioters are racists. The difference between them and other disillusioned youths in their North African homecountries is that they're living close enough to the hated group to actually attack them, in this case their property and the police.

We Must Address The Root Cause! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997330)

Impeach Chimpy Bushitler McHalliburton NOW!

Signed,

A "Progressive"

In the USA too (2, Informative)

Stiletto (12066) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997332)

Before anyone starts spouting about how fascist the French government is and how this could never happen in the USA, keep in mind that web sites are routinely taken down in the USA by government AND corporations (as if there is any difference anymore). A site can be taken down entirely because of urging from a [corporation/gov.official], without any judicial oversite whatsoever if they say it threatens [profits/national security]. In addition, who knows how many newsletters, sites, or blogs were never even published due to [corporate/government] intimidation and the threat of [a ruined credit rating/getting on the wrong watch list]?

Re:In the USA too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997383)

Before anyone starts spouting about how fascist the French government is and how this could never happen in the USA... Huh? LA, anyone? Jesus, do you people forget things that happened over a week ago?

Re:In the USA too (1)

natedubbya (645990) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997388)

You should probably provide an example to back your claim up. Otherwise, you're just making empty claims.

Somehow (3, Funny)

N8F8 (4562) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997335)

Chirac will blame this on Bush.

Re:Somehow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997386)

and Team America... Don't worry everything is bon!

Re:Somehow (1)

JonTurner (178845) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997434)

>>Chirac will blame this on Bush.
Watch for the Democrat party to sue, claiming Prior Art.

The most loaded rhetorical question ever? (5, Insightful)

JonTurner (178845) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997342)

Let's examine this statement:
>>he said that there was a lack of media coverage explaining why ethnically segregated inhabitants of some of France's poorest cities have been driven to riot.

>>lack of media coverage explaining
No doubt. From the media, one would think it was just random collections of poor "youth" on a little spree, releasing youthful energy by burning a car or two (thousand). The reality is that it's a well-defined group of people which I'll get to in a moment.

>>ethnically segregated inhabitants
Do you mean the "muslim immigrants (many of whom are illegal aliens), primarily male aged 14-26, who, by choice, are poorly integrated into France's culture (read: hates France, doesn't speak French, disdain for Europeans, etc.) and thus more likely to be unemployed (and living off of France's generous welfare system, placing a burden on the French)?" It's hard to tell, with all those PC buzzwords in the media.

Look, it's what happens when a culture doesn't insist that immigrants conform. They hate their host country and are using this as an excuse to terrorize, burn, loot, and generally express their disdain and hatred for France.

Anything else I can clear up for you?

Re:The most loaded rhetorical question ever? (1)

leomekenkamp (566309) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997408)

Anything else I can clear up for you?

Yes. Please name the sources that you have consulted so that everyone here can see that your statements are fair, well-balanced and as close to the truth as possible.

Re:The most loaded rhetorical question ever? (1)

Hrvat (307784) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997471)

From what I understand the majority of the so called North African immigrant community is actually already in it's second generation. Meaning they were born there and speak French.

However don't give crap that immigrants must conform. I'm an immigrant and I am not giving up my culture in order to conform to some American McStandard. However I have good luck to be white and male and I can thus get a good job.
Many business owners think twice before hiring someone who is of North African descent precisely because of your kind of prejudice. They think the immigrants are lazy and just want to live off someone else.
When you're in a situation where you're able and willing but no one will give you a job, you'd also get bitter after a year or two. More likely than not all you can get is some menial job sweeping streets or some other junk like that. No matter how smart you are.

Most likely you've never experienced true poverty so don't come judging here. I don't condone of the way they're expressing their dissatisfaction but I don't discount their feelings as frivolous and wrong.

Re:The most loaded rhetorical question ever? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997490)

noone is asking you to give up your culture, what we are doing is asking you to learn the language and ways of the land. you dont have to follow everything to the letter, just have the knowledge needed to interact with locals and behave according to laws. Your culture is your own, and regardless of what the lefties want to instill in you, we arent going to take that away

Bullshit (4, Interesting)

flimflam (21332) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997478)

Most of these youth's, while poorly integrated into French society, are second generation French citizens, who speak French as their first (and largely only) language.

Re:The most loaded rhetorical question ever? (2, Insightful)

thefirelane (586885) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997496)

Look, it's what happens when a culture doesn't insist that immigrants conform.

Actually... my take on this is somewhat different. At least from what I know about early French colonial practices... they were very accepting of immigrants, as long as those immigrants totally disavowed their original culture and 'became French'. I imagine this group rioting are people who did not want to totally lose their original culture, and therefore have been alienated by the cultural elitist French society

I contrast this to America, where although yes it does require some integration, historically it is much easier to retain your original culture and still be considered an American.

Islam religion of peace... (1, Informative)

SubDude (49782) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997361)

The problem in a nutshell is Islam is not just a religion, it is also a political force that denies the legitimacy of other belief systems and other political orientations.

Democracy is not an option!

The Muslims that are rioting hope to gain politically from their actions in order to receive more entitlements in the already welfare rich environment (subsidized housing, free health, free education, even food relief).

I am willing to bet they want sharia law for their community and then they will continue to push the boundaries of their communities out.

One last thought, 50 years ago Turkey was 50% Muslim, today it is over 95% Muslim.

Dude

Re:Islam religion of peace... (4, Informative)

gowen (141411) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997430)

The Muslims that are rioting
I don't know how this is being spun in the US, but by and large the tension isn't religious. It's social and ethnic: poor blacks with their roots in French colonised Africa, objecting to the fact that France's agenda of social reform doesn't reach into their deeply marginalised slums.

That's pretty much it, folks.

If the American media want to blame this on their latest Islamist bogeyman, you might as well go the whole hog and blame the Watts and LA riots on radical Islam too...

Vive la France! (3, Funny)

slashdot_commentator (444053) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997362)

Skyrock deletes roughly 6,500 articles and shuts down 10 blogs every day that violate its policy prohibiting racist, obscene or violent content, the company said in a statement.

And they leave out the most unforgivable crime: posting a page written exclusively non-French. But they let Roman Polanski, a convicted child rapist, to run around their enlightened nation.

A bit of sanity please. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997367)

The crackdown isn't on the blogs. There were a number of bloggers inciting violence!

Not the same thing. Another /. story with no story.

First Against the Wall (1)

emidln (806452) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997390)

So, the revolution is here, and after all these years it might be easier to figure out who isn't against the wall first. Any ideas?

Stupid Frogs (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997428)

"French law concerning violent speech."

They should drop this law and pass one where they don't surrender at the first sign of conflict.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html [albinoblacksheep.com]

Re:surrender at the first sign of conflict (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#13997497)

I keep hearing people making this reference to the French's penchant for surrender... are they refering to VietNam?

Remember, remember the fifth of November... (0, Offtopic)

Faw (33935) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997433)

Maybe this riots are a promotion for the release of V for Vendetta [warnerbros.com]

Civil Disorder in Paris (5, Funny)

cordsie (565171) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997444)

They should have built a Coliseum before the city hit population 5 then made a bee line for Monotheism to build a cathedral. At the very least, they could have turned a citizen or two into an elvis as a stop gap emergency measure.

Pah. French AI's a joke.

(It's a joke, I think the real situation is horrible.)

Choice Doublespeak (3, Interesting)

SPYvSPY (166790) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997446)

"Driven to riot" implies a lack of accountability on the part of the people looting and burning one of history's great civilizations. I find the argument that inflammatory statements from the French government are the direct cause of the riots offensively absurd, esp. in light of France's reputation for pandering to the multicultural tolerance dogma. The sad truth is that it is this so-called "tolerance" that fueled the fire in the first place. Blogs are not sanctified absolutely by virtue of free speech (esp. if those blogs are being used to incite and coordinate violent attacks on the public). Does anyone really believe that freedom of speech extends to tactical communications in promotion of mayhem? And if the police don't stop the riots, the same people protesting the violation of personal freedom are going to protest the inefficacy of the police. It's all so depressingly predictable and pathetic.

Incitement isn't free speech (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997447)

Advocating, promoting, etc. of violence isn't protected speech.

911 Terrrorists European Connection (2, Insightful)

bayers (155001) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997454)

Anybody else see that Frontline report about the 911 terrorists? Sure, a lot of them where Saudis, but nearly all of the were radicallized during their time in Europe.

Btw spread my meme (1)

S. Baldrick (565691) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997462)

Any complex sociopolitical situation needs to boiled down into one catchy buzzword. *gate is reserved for American political scandals so I suggest we call this one -- Frenchifada. Go on say it:

Frenchifada

Frenchifada

Frenchifada

spread it around!

ICANN what? (1, Insightful)

max born (739948) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997466)

Too bad for the French the EU is not in charge of DNS. They could just delete his domain name:)

When will the US uprising start? (0, Flamebait)

ylikone (589264) | more than 8 years ago | (#13997491)

Maybe this uprising in France will spark interest in similiar uprisings in the US. The US is ripe for it afterall, with a huge gap between rich and poor, people losing jobs to foreign countries, religious fanatics gaining power in politics, the government spying on you and having unquestionable powers, suspicious presidential elections in a 2 party system, etc...

Geesh, isn't it about time US? Are you gonna let the wimpy French out-uprise you? Hell, you're all even armed!

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