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Revolution Least Expensive Next-Gen Console

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the cheap-and-wacky dept.

Nintendo 580

exdeath writes "Today, one of Nintendo's most public faces said the Revolution will stand out from its competition for a reason besides its innovative controller: price. Speaking to CNN/Money correspondent Chris Morris Reggie Fils-Aime, executive vice president of sales and marketing, predicted that the Revolution would be cheaper than both the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3. How low will Nintendo go? It's hard to tell. Microsoft is selling two Xbox 360 SKUs--the no-frills $299 core Xbox and the $399 standard model with hard drive and wireless remote. In his interview with Morris, Fils-Aime also reiterated that the Revolution will not support high-definition televisions. 'What we'll offer in terms of gameplay and approachability will more than make up for the lack of HD,' he said. Both Microsoft and Sony are making much of the 360 and PS3's HD capabilities. Fils-Aime also implied that the DS will see redesigns, just as the Game Boy Advance has."

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WILDCAT IS ON TEH SPOKE!!!~`1 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007209)

OMFG have you seen the Halo 2 trailer it's like slow and it's telling you all the stuff you did in the first one then the music kicks in and and the chief comes out and gets a gun the earf is on fire and chief is like fuck this im jumping and HE JUMPS PUT OF TEH SPACESHIP with angels singing and he lands on the bad guys and that annoying ai lady is like GO GET EM TIGER! WILDCAT IS ON TEH SPOKE!!!~`1 and theres less polys but rawkin bumb mappings you can view this on a special MICROSOFT xbox disk that comes with EB games store.

No HD support? Wake up... (0, Troll)

squarooticus (5092) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007218)

Having started playing FPS's at 1920x1200 and 1600x1200 on my 6800, I don't think it would be possible for me to go back to NTSC resolution for modern games. This is a big black mark against this console.

Re:No HD support? Wake up... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007235)

1. You are a minority.

2. Nintendo doesn't cater to the hardcore.

Re:No HD support? Wake up... (-1, Offtopic)

Meagermanx (768421) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007243)

HD=Hard Drive, not High Definition.

Re:No HD support? Wake up... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007279)

HDD = Hard Disk Drive
HD = High Definition, High Density

Re:No HD support? Wake up... (4, Insightful)

tgibbs (83782) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007252)

I don't care that much about HD, but I would like to see routine support for widescreen and progressive scan

Re:No HD support? Wake up... (1)

ProppaT (557551) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007366)

I agree. Even though I have an HDTV, I could care less about HD support as long as it supports progressive scan and widescreen. I don't see a big enough reason to make the HD jump with current technology. System power would be better spent rendering special effects, lighting, bump mapping, upping poly count, etc. Why spend extra system power to bump up the resolution when you can still count the poly's in the majority of games on the market?

Re:No HD support? Wake up... (2, Informative)

CPUGuy (676781) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007492)

Progressive Scan does not get you ANYTHING at all unless you have a TV that can play that progressivly scanned DVD.

Progressive Scan DVD players are called that because they can output at 480p (some can even do 720p). As you may have guessed, the p is where the progressive comes in. Where as standard NTSC resolution is 408i (or interlaced).

So you see, your clamoring for progressive scan and not caring about HD support doesn't really make any sense, as they are one in the same.

Re:No HD support? Wake up... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007291)

640x480 should be enough for anyone.

Re:No HD support? Wake up... (5, Insightful)

AsiNisiMasa (910721) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007294)

Good think you don't matter to Nintendo, then. It would have been a disaster is their business model depended entirely on you.

Most people don't even have HDTVs nor surround sound nor a computer that can handle high end games at that resolution. You're a huge minority, especially considering Nintendos "casual gamer" target demographic.

Re:No HD support? Wake up... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007355)

a huge minority huh? is that like a definite maybe?

Re:No HD support? Wake up... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007477)

a huge minority huh? is that like a definite maybe?
No, silly, it's like Star Jones.

Re:No HD support? Wake up... (4, Insightful)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007298)

Having started playing FPS's at 1920x1200 and 1600x1200 on my 6800, I don't think it would be possible for me to go back to NTSC resolution for modern games.

Well I'm still using an old 15' CRT television to play my games and I'm more that satisfied with it. I've tried HD TV, and I don't see that benefits in the increase in resolution offset the enormous costs of

a) Purchascing such a device
and
b) The loss of CPU and GPU cycles to increasing resolution that could be put to better uses eleswhere, like gameplay or AI.

You may have enjoyed the 1600x1200 resolution, but I seriously doubt you enjoyed it at the same framerate or lighting quality or perhaps even texture and model quality as someone who was using good old 1024x768 resolution. There's a payoff here, and in terms of what makes a game look better, increasing resolution beyond 1024x768 ranks pretty low on the list of options.

Of course the number one way of making a game look better is better art design. This fact slips past most developers.

Re:No HD support? Wake up... (1)

CPUGuy (676781) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007466)

Well, 1024x768 is a HUGE improvement on the standard NTSC resolution.

Re:No HD support? Wake up... (2, Insightful)

interiot (50685) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007481)

SD looks like crap on HDTV's. Seriously. If any of your friends have HDTV, ask them. And a lot of people are saying that production of HDTV's in 2006 will be much higher, ergo, the price will be lower, and a lot of people will be introduced to HDTV for the first time. BAD time to release a console that all those new HDTV owners will think looks like crap. You don't need 1080p, 1280x720 is the minimum that XBox 360 will do, and it wouldn't be so bad if Revolution at least said that they'd support that for some games. I guarantee you that 85% of HDTV owners, if they're choosing between the Revolution and a different console, will choose the other console.

Re:No HD support? Wake up... (0, Redundant)

Kwelstr (114389) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007301)

I agree, not to talk about the eye strain from NTSC either :-(

Re:No HD support? Wake up... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007308)

I'm not going to buy a new TV to play videogames and I think I'm not the only one.

Well, you are the benchmark... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007461)

" Having started playing FPS's"

You should have quit there, but no, you forged on...

"I don't think it would be possible for me to go back to NTSC resolution for modern games. This is a big black mark against this console."

I wish more console makers would consult with you first, then we wouldn't be in this situation.

Re:No HD support? Wake up... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007497)

Have you ever really compared the difference between a WMVHD file at 1080p with a DVD movie at 480p?

For those that haven't what you will notice is that the 1080p image is crisper but nothing to really get too excited about; 480p to 1080i or 720p is barely noticable on most displays. Now I know what you're thinking, a real-time generated 3D image produces artifacts that make it no where near the quality of a DVD image; after all at 1600x1200 a PC game still has jaggies without AA, and the textures are blurry without AF. What you don't realize is that by increasing the resolution they may (in fact) be lowering the image quality and performing at a far worse level. The reason is simple, as shading hardware becomes more powerful, and shaders become more complex, the greater the performance hit will be from increasing the resolution by even a small ammount. If you look at most benchmarking of new games you will notice that (almost) all games have dramatically better performance at 1024x768 with 8xAA and 8xAF than they do at 1600x1200 with no image processing; at 480p I suspect that (on equal hardware) you could have 16xAA and 16xAF and have a much higher framerate than you could at 1080i or 720p.

Just look at FEAR:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2575 &p=5 [anandtech.com]

At 1280x1024 (a good estimate of HD resolutions) you're getting between 20-40 FPS on most new hardware [in this test]; using the same cards at 640x480 (a good estimate of 480p) you're getting between 50-100 fps. I'm willing to bet money that the main reason the XBox 360 looks like "the XBox at high resolutions" is that it is highly difficult for a developer to produce a game, use high quality shaders / textures and models and maintain a decent framerate.

Development flexibility... (-1, Offtopic)

lpangelrob (714473) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007221)

'What we'll offer in terms of gameplay and approachability will more than make up for the lack of HD,' he said.

Ah, yes, the one flaw of the Gamecube that developers complained about most rears its ugly head again.

It's not like space is a bad thing, or even expensive. Heck, I don't even care if they provided a 512 MB USB stick and a special USB slot for it in the back. But why remove even the possibility of using it for developers?

Re:Development flexibility... (2, Informative)

Qinopio (602437) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007238)

HD, in this case = "High Definition", not "Hard Drive".

Dare I say, RTFA friend?

Re:Development flexibility... (1)

lpangelrob (714473) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007319)

Point granted, and as it turns out, they do have a 512 MB USB stick: From Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] :

Memory:

  • 1T-SRAM [slashdot.org] by MoSys [slashdot.org]
    • No further details.
  • 512 MB [slashdot.org] built-in expandable [12] [eurogamer.net] flash memory [slashdot.org]
    • Replaces the function of an internal hard drive.
    • Will be used to store:
      • Revolution game save data
      • Downloaded games
      • Game demos
      • Patches [slashdot.org] or upgrades

But I still think my point stands as it being something of an artificial limit, much like the 100 song limit on the ROKR. Something that developer's shouldn't have to grapple with, but they'll end up battling somewhere down the line.

Re:Development flexibility... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007494)


It's actually a pair of SD slots.

(From the page) :

* 2 × front loading SD memory card slots.

Re:Development flexibility... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007245)

High
Definition.

Re:Development flexibility... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007248)

Because HD is not HDD. It's High Definition instead of NTSC (or standard definition). Harddisks are not discussed in the text you cited.

Re:Development flexibility... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007265)

Erm, they're talking about High Definition, not Hard Drive.

Re:Development flexibility... (1)

thatoneguy_jm (917104) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007270)

First, if I'm reading the quote correctly, "HD" is referring to ability to run in High Definition, and not referring to a hard drive.

Regardless, your point does stand, and it's true that the lack of a hard drive may be a huge setback to developers - However, developers will also have to grapple with this issue on the X-Box 360, since the customer may or may not have a hard drive (depending on which bundle they purchased.)

Honestly, I believe that the lack of Hi-Def support will be a bigger drawback than the hard drive issue.

Re:Development flexibility... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007380)

In fact, one could argue that the Revolution has more storage than the Xbox 360 standard, as the Revolution has 512 MB internal storage [ign.com] :

Data for GameCube titles will be saved to standard Memory Paks. Meanwhile, Revolution software data will be stored on 512MB flash memory, according to Nintendo.

On the other hand, features are being stripped from Xbox 360 games because it lacks the HDD as standard [aussiexbox.com.au]

Last but not least, after we were told that there was no ability to fly aircrafts in the game due to the DVD drive's inability to stream the environment fast enough in full 720p resolution. We asked Jacques Hennequet (Producer for Saint's Row), "If the Xbox 360 Hard Drive was standard across both SKU's, would flying aircrafts in the game have been a reality?", Jacques simply answered "Yes". While he completely understands why MS made the decision to not include a hard drive in the Core System, I think he felt somewhat disappointed, as it could have opened up much more possibilities within the gameplay for Volition's first Xbox 360 title.

As for Nintendo's choice to not support the higher ends of High-Definition, I expect it'll be something that won't affect most people as most people don't have HD TVs, but that the media will continue to raise a stink about how Nintendo isn't supporting it. Look at it as the Internet service of this generation's consoles.

Re:Development flexibility... (1)

GweeDo (127172) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007312)

Also, the system is supposed to come with 512MB of flash memory for downloading content online.

Re:Development flexibility... (1)

Evangelion (2145) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007390)


They have two SD slots on the revolution.

That should be more than enough for any storage needs.

Smart Move (4, Insightful)

fistfullast33l (819270) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007223)

Nintendo, of the three, targets children better than any other of the big three console developers. The average parent doesn't want to spend $400 to keep their child happy (nevermind that the odds that the child will use the majority space of the harddrive on the xbox360 is slim to none). They did it with the DS (unintentionally?) and it's helped them as well. It's now a semi-proven model of competition for them that works.

Re:Smart Move (4, Insightful)

GweeDo (127172) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007292)

The DS is for kids? Man, I thought it was for people that wanted to play fun games. Looks like I should tell all my 20+ friends to get rid of their kiddie toy along with me!

Seriously though, when will this "Nintendo is the kidie!" sentiment just die. Nintendo makes games that are fun for ALL age groups. They also have third party support if you just have to have a game with a big "M" on it (Resident Evil 4 = one of the best games ever).

Personally, I can't wait to play my kiddie Mario Kart DS and Animal Crossing online [witendofi.com] . Go back to watching Spider Man 2 on your UMD while I play some games.

Re:Smart Move (-1, Troll)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007346)

Man, I thought it was for people that wanted to play fun games. Looks like I should tell all my 20+ friends to get rid of their kiddie toy along with me!

But that would require you to leave your parent's basement... oh wait. I forgot. You can probably Skype.. oh no. Does that have a Linux client? Well you can always msn the... oh yeah. Forgot. Linux. Well you can always e-mail them.

Re:Smart Move (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007299)

he average parent doesn't want to spend $400 to keep their child happy

Yup, but, what will make your child happy? a Revolution, a 360 or a PS3? These days I think it all depends on marketing as in what is everyone else playing.

So, what good would it be for parents to buy the Revolution to their sons, if they will just throw it in the corner and continue asking for that costly 360 thingy?

Re:Smart Move (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007313)

Shut the hell up, *slap*slap*

Re:Smart Move (1)

bpd1069 (57573) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007451)

hehe works for me

Nonsense (1)

clevershark (130296) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007464)

The bar by which one measures whether a game console is worth buying is a very flexible one... I don't think this will actually steal business away from XBOX360 or PS3, but it *may* make a difference in how many people own a Revolution alongside their other next-gen console.

You get what you pay for, right? (3, Informative)

ChrisF79 (829953) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007226)

When you look at the specs of the PS3 or Xbox 360, it appears to me that your money is getting you a better system. With the Revolution not supporting high-definition, it should be discounted. I'm sure it will be better than the gamecube, but it just seems odd to me that they wouldn't support HD. When I bought my television last year, suddenly my PS2 got a lot fewer hours on it. The Xbox just looked so nice. And after all, I paid enough money for the TV that I want to see it the way it is intended.

Re:You get what you pay for, right? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007267)

Key word: "I paid"
Maybe the Revo is discounted for you, but most people don't have an HDTV. You're like, one in a thousand. All the people all I know that even *want* to have an HDTV equals one, and I've got my connections.

Re:You get what you pay for, right? (5, Insightful)

hal2814 (725639) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007276)

"When you look at the specs of the PS3 or Xbox 360, it appears to me that your money is getting you a better system."

What's funny is that I remember two of my friends using the same argument to buy a Saturn over the Playstation at launch time. Better hardware != better system. (Personally, I think the Saturn was a better system but I'm obviously in the minority.)

Also, while HD sounds nice, the majority of Americans aren't onboard yet. Nintendo is merely betting that HD won't become a big factor over the course of this console's lifespan (which will probably be 4-6 based on typcial console lifespans). I don't think that's a terrible bet given HD's slow adoption rate thus far.

Re:You get what you pay for, right? (0)

Jackdaw Rookery (696327) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007281)

HD in this article meant Hard Disc, not Hi-Definition.

Also Hi-Def is only a big deal to the really tiny few that own a Hi-Def TV. In five years time, the next console cycle, the majority of people will still not have a Hi-Def TV but the percentage that do will be large enough for all consoles to have to support it.

Just not yet. It's no big deal, get over it.

Re:You get what you pay for, right? (1)

boa13 (548222) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007456)

HD in this article meant Hard Disc, not Hi-Definition.

You meant the reverse, or you didn't read the article.

Re:You get what you pay for, right? (4, Insightful)

mrgreen4242 (759594) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007506)

Did you read the article? Seriously? I can understand if you didn't read it and then posted anyways, I do it all the time... but to correct someone else about the article when it seems pretty clear you didn't read it is a bit much. This is unedited at all, FTFA:

One thing's for sure: The Revolution will not support high definition video, a marked divergence from the path Microsoft (Research) and Sony (Research) are taking. And it's not something the company is re-thinking, despite the fervent hopes of some hardcore gaming fans.

Casual and non-gamers, the company feels, are less interested in flashy graphics than enjoyable games. And the large files that go hand in hand with high definition video result in "almost interminably long" load times for games, said Fils-Aime, something that would also be detrimental to a mainstream audience.

"What we'll offer in terms of gameplay and approachability will more than make up for the lack of HD," he said.

They are talking about HiDef. The current norm seems to be that HD=HiDef, HDD=Hard Disc Drive. The Revolution won't have either, but that won't keep me from buying one. If it's $200 at launch, I'll grab one, otherwise I will wait for the first price drop or used sales to get below $200.

That's pretty beside the point, however. I suspect that while the "majority of people" will not have HD in 5 years, the majority of people buying a new video console WILL. I still don't think it is a mistake, though. I have an HDTV (a modest 30" widescreen CRT). At full 1080i it looks spectacular. At 480p widescreen (ie DVD) it looks REALLY GOOD. If Nintendo supports widescreen/anamorphic 480p (the GC does, so it's not that far fetched) and either component or full digital outputs it will look very nice. For $100 cheaper system and $10 cheaper games, plus having spare GPU cycles to render lighting, mapping, whatever effect is the new hotness, it'll DAMN good.

Re:You get what you pay for, right? (4, Interesting)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007304)

It all depends on what you want. Do you want the same old games we've been getting for years now, updated with flashy graphics? Or do you want a new gameplay experience with an innovative remote allowing for a unique experience?

If the control is used well, and not used as a gimmick, then I can see the Revolution being a hell of a lot better then PS3 and Xbox 360. But it has to be used to good effect. Of course, those that will lap up whatever "XXX 200X" gamecompanies spew out, will of course like their flashy graphics, because for them that's one of the few ways a game can improve in.

I'm just hoping the Revolution gets a good healthy library from a large range of developers, and isn't inundated with gimmicky games and Mario Bros XX.

Re:You get what you pay for, right? (1)

sqlrob (173498) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007320)

Gameplay is the thing though. I don't care about incremental improvements in graphics

Disclaimer: I will be getting all three next gen systems (unless Sony pulls that "no used game" crap, or the system requires internet access)

Ars Technica (4, Interesting)

JanneM (7445) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007351)

Ars Technica had a good piece related to this. Very briefly, they point out that most titles are written to be cross-platform, thus erasing a lot of the relative hardware benefits of each platform.

http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/hardware/cr ossplatform.ars [arstechnica.com]

I think Nintendo is on to a winner; we'll see if the execution is as good as their ideas.

Not exactly (0)

FiberSocialist (99660) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007507)

...they point out that most titles are written to be cross-platform, thus erasing a lot of the relative hardware benefits of each platform.

According to Gaving Carter's Slashdot interview [slashdot.org] three days ago, gaming companies still consider their biggest cross-platform challenge as "taking the big, grandiose things we set out to do and get them to work like they're supposed to".

But that's if we were talking about reduced hardware benefits. What Nintendo is doing is getting rid of the whole hardware capability. It won't be harder to implement a feature, it will be impossible. And not Perl-type impossible, where it just takes a couple of extra seconds to implement, but the real impossible.

And this is coming from a hardcore Nintendo fan. I've been playing Nintendo since I was five years old, and I've actually been inside Nintendo's corporate headquarters in Kyodo, Japan (don't tell the police).

Re:You get what you pay for, right? (1)

diegocgteleline.es (653730) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007400)

Nintendo admits that revolution's graphics will not be as good as ps3 or xbox

So, what's the deal. Worse technology, better price. I don't see why people wouldn't buy it it the games are good...

with online they are set (0, Redundant)

GweeDo (127172) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007227)

Lower price, innovative controller, solid graphics, and great online [witendofi.com] . Looks like the Revolution is setting itself up to be great.

Does console price really matter that much? (4, Insightful)

DilbertLand (863654) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007232)

Considering the $50+ price tag of new games, is the console price really that important?

Re:Does console price really matter that much? (1)

mlk (18543) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007342)

For Nintendos target, yes, for "the kids xmas pressy", yes, for Joe Gamer, no.

Will Nintendos target actually buy into it. I don't think so. "None gamers" need to be introduced to games, and while when introduced, they enjoy and become "mild" gamers (as has happened with my g/f after I bought a DS & Wareware: Touched), they still don't buy games.

I think this will become something poor kids, and really hard-core gamers have.

Also, DS games are normally 10-20 pounds cheaper than PSP counterparts.

Re:Does console price really matter that much? (2, Interesting)

wisdom_brewing (557753) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007383)

with nintendo yes... if you grab a gamecube, and 2 or 3 games youre set. super monkey ball, mario kart, even mario all have hundreds of hours of gameplay in them, not tens like most games released predominantly for other consoles. so if the arguement is revolution + 3 games against xbox 360 + 5 games, it becomes even more of a factor. and as to the kids arguement, you need to keep them satisfied over the long run, you dont but a console and several games at one, you buy ONE game, then more later, or buy several but wait before giving them out individually. several games at once mean the kids will play only one, and forget the rest...

Re:Does console price really matter that much? (1)

KitesWorld (901626) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007403)

Perhaps. No HDTV support means that titles shouldn't need as much time to be spent on art assets, which in theory means that development times could be a little shorter and the games cheaper as a result.

Not that retailers will care. :Z

Re:Does console price really matter that much? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007472)

It is a possibility that games could be cheaper on the Revolution. XBox360 games sure are going to cost more than current generation games.

It Didn't Help Them Last Time (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007242)

As important as it is to lowball the competition when you're coming in from a niche angle like Nintendo is with the Revolution, it certainly isn't everything. GameCube was $100 cheaper, and all it really did was convince all of the consumers that it wasn't as technically able or as good an investment as PS2 or Xbox.

While the cheaper price will help, I think the only way it'll become useful in the marketplace is if Nintendo successfully distinguishes it and its remote-like controller from the competition. If they can pull off a positive impression from the public, mix in some media hype, and simultaneously be able to get into more households via the accessible price, they'll probably be in business. Not looking like a purple lunch box will probably also help them carve out their own new little market to get out of the pissing contest Microsoft and Sony are throwing all their money at in preparation of.

Of course, what's really to be seen is how well HDTV is adopted by people and how many gamers will be alright with the fact that few if any Revolution games will output any higher than 480p. They might look beautiful on standard TVs, but once the console has been out a couple years and HDTV adoption rates are more pervasive, it'll probably bring the console to a screeching halt similar to what the GameCube is experiencing.

-Juice

Re:It Didn't Help Them Last Time (1)

cosmotron (900510) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007286)

GameCube was $100 cheaper, and all it really did was convince all of the consumers that it wasn't as technically able or as good an investment as PS2 or Xbox. The Gamecube was certainly more "technically able" that the PS2.

Re:It Didn't Help Them Last Time (1)

th1ckasabr1ck (752151) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007317)

It might have had a little bit more horsepower, but it couldn't play DVDs at a time when that was very important to consumers.

Re:It Didn't Help Them Last Time (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007432)

The one thing that worries me is that word-of-mouth won't be as successful with the Revolution as it was with the DS, simply because you can't carry the Revolution with you and show it to people on the train (which from what I've heard has caused more than a few DS purchases). Having good POS and perhaps some sort of roadshow will be essential.

Emmersion in gaming (-1, Flamebait)

PhYrE2k2 (806396) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007244)

Sounds like they're producing a console not quite up to par. Sure it cuts price, but who wants something that won't sparkle and shine in a couple years as HDTVs become more commonplace? I guess if you're in the price market to care about console price, you don't have a good TV, but seriously- if they cut that, what else do they cut? What half-@$$ed hardware is in there, cheap production, and buggy software.

Sounds like another Nokia game console using old hardware.
-M

Re:Emmersion in gaming (1)

thatoneguy_jm (917104) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007310)

Regardless of HDTV support, you can count on Nintendo on using quality components - all of their systems since the original NES have been insanely sturdy. My friend had his house burn down, and found a mostly-melted SNES in the wreckage - he plugged it in, and despite being charred and black, it worked perfectly. As for myself, I've had a roommate drop my GameCube onto a cement floor from 4 feet, and it worked perfectly. I've also had my little cousin drop my GBA into the toilet - once it dried it - you guessed it - worked perfectly.

I sincerely doubt that the Revolution will be of any less quality. They may not support high def, but they definitely use quality components.

Re:Emmersion in gaming (2, Interesting)

bitkari (195639) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007327)

I suspect that Nintendo's argument is that they want to appeal not just to the predominantly teenage male "hardcore" market.

Rather than entering the hardware arms race of Microsoft and Nintendo to see who can create the most realistic, or at least visually impressive game experience, Nintendo seem to want a more modest aesthetic and rely more on interesting game designs. Whether or not that will work, who knows - but I do at least applaud their attempt at diversifying the game market.

Not everyone wants to play Need for Bling Underground Xtreme 2007, you know.

Re:Emmersion in gaming - correction (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007379)

I think that you meant Microsoft and SONY. :P

Re:Emmersion in gaming (1)

metarox (883747) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007336)

Well I don't really care about the graphics because I want the console to play the old games I used too and these definitively don't support HD and in that case it won't matter. I will also be playing the new games (Zelda, Metroid) and the graphics quality of the cube is enough for me. And they can make interesting games with the new controller without the need to have HD.

Re:Emmersion in gaming (2, Interesting)

jcostantino (585892) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007347)

Of all the people I know who own an Xbox, which is a dozen or so - most play with the composite cable included in the kit. Some, like myself, bought an S-Video cable - even if they own a HDTV, which I don't have. One person I know is using component inputs and the digital audio out. Of all these people, two own a HDTV and one has an EDTV but he uses composite in.


Those numbers are pretty ugly when you think about it. Two out of 12 people give a damn enough to buy a brand new TV and one of those two bothered to buy the component cable. By the way, the one who bought the HD cable also sold his HDTV because he just doesn't watch TV enough to justify a gigantic TV in his condo.


I don't think that HDTV/console gaming is at a big enough saturation to compel Nintendo to include HDTV support. They make money hand over fist so I'm sure they believe this is the best way to market the machine but I can only guess that adding HDTV support and just selling the cable seperately would only tack on an extra $10-15 bucks.

Re:Emmersion in gaming (1)

Jackdaw Rookery (696327) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007350)

"What half-@$$ed hardware is in there, cheap production, and buggy software."

What hardware problems have Nintendo had in the past? What buggy software? You pulled that statement out of no-where, didn't you.

My personal (read ignore at will) console history for breakages goes: My PS1 broke (No longer read discs), my PS2 broke (Just died), my Dreamcast reboots randomly. My SNES, GB, Gamecube, GBA and DS all still run perfectly.

Meh.

Emerson in gaming? I'd prefer immersion. (2, Interesting)

Qinopio (602437) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007357)

Nintendo has stated that on regular TVs, Revolution will be nearly indistinguishable from HD. Now, I don't know about you, but I certainly don't have an HD set and probably won't for several years - poor soon-to-be graduate student and all.

What the Revolution will be about is a new way of playing games, not the glowiest explosions. The PS3 and Xbox 360 are more or less equivalent in the games they'll let you play. The Revolution will be able to handle those games (albeit not in HD) but also open up lots of new possibilities for new games too while adding new control options to the traditional genres (RTS, FPS especially). As a gamer since I was a little tadpole, I don't see how people could not be at least a little excited about what Nintendo's doing.

Nintendo won't cut production values, because they've been about high production values and lower cost than the competitors for a while now.

Oops, nearly indistinguishable from PS3/Xbox360 (1)

Qinopio (602437) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007371)

Correction!

Re:Emmersion in gaming (1)

AsiNisiMasa (910721) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007360)

Bad hardware sounds more like a Sony issue to me. I've never had to replace a Nintedo system, yet I've owned two Playstations and two PS2s. I do own a Gamecube, by the way, with which you could have used this same argument when they launched with a dramatically lower price tag. It has always run fine.

Better hardware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007365)

I've had every system (aside from the virtual boy) Nintendo ever put out, including 2 SNESes and 2 of the old gray block gameboy. I still own all of them. The amazing thing - they still all work (OK, the NES occasionally requires a little blowing, but still). That's pretty impressive considering that I've had a PS2 die on me already, and my old PS1 requires a little work with a bent paperclip to get discs to eject. While I don't own an XBox, I would say that, if anything, Nintendo's products stand the test of time, while Sony stuff is so fragile I'm often afraid to take it over to a friend's. Plus I rarely have had Nintendo games crash on me, while XBox games at my friends' (XMen legends for example) get wierd memory and dirty disc errors all the time.

Nintendo might be behind on raw horsepower or the best games, but I feel their hardware is top notch.

Re:Emmersion in gaming (1)

pmuessig (929769) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007426)

That's a slippery slope [wikipedia.org] if I've ever heard one.

If you want a rundown on the hardware here ya go [arstechnica.com] (link lifted from a previous slashdot post).

The reduced price is of course justified as mentioned above, you're not getting nearly as much hardware for the buck as the revolution is sans: Hardive, 802.11g, HDTV input, CPU clock. However the interesting thing to note as the article points out is the speculative large(r) size of L2 cache. I don't feel like quoting it so have a read yourself and take notes on how "less features" does not correlate to "poor quality".

Re:Emmersion in gaming (1)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007438)

Sure it cuts price, but who wants something that won't sparkle and shine in a couple years as HDTVs become more commonplace?

That's true. but it's also true that HDTV's aren't likely to become commonplace till well after 2010, by which time the next generation of console will be approaching it end of life.

Point of note here. What type of television is little Johhny or Mary more likely to have in their bedrooms with the console. A cheap and robust CRT, or a $2000 HDTV set?

oblig (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007261)

Wireless, no HD, less space than a 360. Confused?!?

Nintendo's comeback! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007266)

The DS has finally met its potential with the latest round of games ... Phoenix Wright, Nintendogs, and Mario Kart... the surgeon game also looks good although I've forgotten the title.

Meanwhile, the PSP continues to be a piece of shit with few games, and nothing original to the platform. I bet you PSP owners feel pretty stupid now, eh?

Oh it's so good to see Nintendo on the come back trail, they are the only innovators left in the industry, and if anyone can bring us something fresh and new, it's Nintendo.

Re:Nintendo's comeback! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007495)

You can't properly port even a NES game to NDS because the resolution of the tiny NDS screen is lower than that of NES. Yes, you are exploited by Nintendo.

Price Point Prediction: $200 USD (5, Insightful)

thebosz (748870) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007280)

I predict that the Revolution (or whatever it'll be called) will be launched at a price point of $200 USD. Why? Because the GameCube launched at that price. Because the Nintendo 64 launched at that price. Because the Super Nintendo hit mass market appeal at that price and because the NES hit mass market appeal at that price. (Obviously, I'm going off of memory with the numbers.)

But, as the article says, is that enough for Nintendo? Gamecube was/is priced considerably lower than the PS2 and Xbox, but doesn't have nearly the mindshare (not even mentioning the marketshare). I'm not planning on getting either PS3 or Xbox 360 until they reach price points comparable to what the Revolution will launch at; for me, $200 is the sweet spot. Any more and I won't buy it.

Personally, I'm most excited about the possibilities of the Revolution (the controller, download old games, internet play, Super Smash Bros. Revolution Online, etc.) but I fear that it might be too little too late.

Re:Price Point Prediction: $200 USD (1)

mlk (18543) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007416)

I'd guess about the same (100UKP). 100UKP is a "toy". 200-300UKP is not.

Might be a bad thing (1)

external400kdiskette (930221) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007302)

Some people associate cheaper price with lower quality so unless the price is so low that people would just buy it anyway it could backfire. Remember Beta was cheaper than VHS and didn't sell nearly as much.

Nintendo has ALWAYS gone for the kids market (0, Flamebait)

mekkab (133181) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007306)

Kids want fun games, not necessarily photo-realistic graphics. And even Penny-Arcade was talking about "Blue Sparks" despite having Xboxes, so there is something to be said for great gameplay.

The Original NES was for kids. So this isn't really a deviation from their game plan. I believe it was only the N64 that started to rear its head up to the older generation...

This is a wise move. Let the already well positioned PS3 and Xbox360 battle it out for the Young Adults; Nintendo will clean up in the youth market and get respect from the YA market if they have the quality games.

Re:Nintendo has ALWAYS gone for the kids market (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007369)

There are some other markets which aren't so fussed about flashy graphics, for example current non-gamers probably have no idea about the graphical arms race. That's certainly been Nintendo's target market with the DS, and they've been shouting from the rooftops about the Revolution supposedly being less intimidating for outsiders.

I think you underestimate the young demographic's thirst for good visuals: just look at the number of tennage oiks on forums ranting on about how much more powerful Next Gen Console X is than all the others.

Re:Nintendo has ALWAYS gone for the kids market (1)

mekkab (133181) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007476)

I think you underestimate the young demographic's thirst for good visuals: just look at the number of tennage oiks on forums ranting on about how much more powerful Next Gen Console X is than all the others.

Teenagers will rant about how X is better than Y regardless of the domain. Its just what they do!

I think Nintendo is aiming even lower than that. Get the really young kids hooked and the hand that rocks the cradle is the one that owns the pre-teens into their teenage years.

Re:Nintendo has ALWAYS gone for the kids market (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007500)

I never really looked at it that way. Interesting. Perhaps Nintendo is investing in brand loyalty.

The gamer's "other" console? (4, Insightful)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007318)

I know of quite a few people who bought a GC to go alongside a PS2 or an Xbox, because of its comparatively low price. Perhaps Nintendo noticed this and is aiming the Revolution to be everyone's "other" next-gen console, given their emphasis on different kinds of games than the indistinguishable powerhouses from MS/Sony.

Re:The gamer's "other" console? (1)

MSFanBoi2 (930319) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007358)

And of all three consoles, it was still in last place, beat by Microsoft's very first console ever...
What is unusual this time around in the Console wars, is for the first time ever, the market supported three consoles. Every other time/revision, the market self-limited itself to two consoles, one that did really well and one that did OK...

Re:The gamer's "other" console? (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007392)

Actually, the sales statistics are pretty much a tie overall, although MS and Nintendo can each pull out statistics which show them to be well in the lead. Good point about the 3-console market though, it's been an interesting situation and probably not a sustainable one in the long term.

New Advertising Slogan? (3, Funny)

DannyO152 (544940) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007338)

It's Not a SONY.

Better slogan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007386)

Nintendo Revolution: we won't attempt to install rootkits on your TV.

Re:New Advertising Slogan? (1)

ben0207 (845105) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007407)

Nintendon't what Sony do?

Why does Slashdot hype non-existent hardware? (-1, Troll)

Jagasian (129329) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007340)

Why does Slashdot continue to hype Nintendo's non-existent hardware? Does Nintendo even have a running prototype? This all seems quite silly. For every Slashdot article bashing Microsoft's Xbox 360, which actually exists, they seem to have a fluff article hyping something that does not even exist yet.

Re:Why does Slashdot hype non-existent hardware? (4, Informative)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007409)

Journalists were playing Revolution games at the TGS; they even had a Metroid Prime demo on show. Dev kits shipped a short while back and are based on the GameCube APIs. Perhaps you should, you know, actually check these things.

The Revolution (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007349)

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

You will not be able to stay home, brother. You will not be able to plug in, turn on and cop out. You will not be able to lose yourself on skag and skip, Skip out for beer during commercials, Because the revolution will not be televised.

The revolution will not be televised. The revolution will not be brought to you by Xerox In 4 parts without commercial interruptions. The revolution will not show you pictures of Nixon blowing a bugle and leading a charge by John Mitchell, General Abrams and Spiro Agnew to eat hog maws confiscated from a Harlem sanctuary. The revolution will not be televised.

The revolution will not be brought to you by the Schaefer Award Theatre and will not star Natalie Woods and Steve McQueen or Bullwinkle and Julia. The revolution will not give your mouth sex appeal. The revolution will not get rid of the nubs. The revolution will not make you look five pounds thinner, because the revolution will not be televised, Brother.

There will be no pictures of you and Willie May pushing that shopping cart down the block on the dead run, or trying to slide that color television into a stolen ambulance. NBC will not be able predict the winner at 8:32 or report from 29 districts. The revolution will not be televised.

There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down brothers in the instant replay. There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down brothers in the instant replay. There will be no pictures of Whitney Young being run out of Harlem on a rail with a brand new process. There will be no slow motion or still life of Roy Wilkens strolling through Watts in a Red, Black and Green liberation jumpsuit that he had been saving For just the proper occasion.

Green Acres, The Beverly Hillbillies, and Hooterville Junction will no longer be so damned relevant, and women will not care if Dick finally gets down with Jane on Search for Tomorrow because Black people will be in the street looking for a brighter day. The revolution will not be televised.

There will be no highlights on the eleven o'clock news and no pictures of hairy armed women liberationists and Jackie Onassis blowing her nose. The theme song will not be written by Jim Webb, Francis Scott Key, nor sung by Glen Campbell, Tom Jones, Johnny Cash, Englebert Humperdink, or the Rare Earth. The revolution will not be televised.

The revolution will not be right back after a message bbout a white tornado, white lightning, or white people. You will not have to worry about a dove in your bedroom, a tiger in your tank, or the giant in your toilet bowl. The revolution will not go better with Coke. The revolution will not fight the germs that may cause bad breath. The revolution will put you in the driver's seat.

The revolution will not be televised, will not be televised, will not be televised, will not be televised. The revolution will be no re-run brothers; The revolution will be live.

Chinese Market (2, Insightful)

alucinor (849600) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007364)

With a low price-point, it sounds like they want to clean up in the Chinese market that's sprouted up this time 'round. And it's not like they have a lot of HDTVs.

Personally, I could care less about HD ... I've seen what it can do, and it doesn't seem to be that great of an advancement to me. Besides, a non-HD Nintendo means beautiful frame rates ... and games with a cell-shaded look to them will look the same whether on HD or regular TV.

Re:Chinese Market (1)

CPUGuy (676781) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007452)

I suggest you compare HDTV to standard TV side by side.

There is a HUUUUUGE difference.

$sys$ (0)

Evil_Way (220281) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007391)

It's actually the most expensive console, but they hid the extra cost with $sys$.

*runs*

That's not really true. (2, Interesting)

CDPatten (907182) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007420)

Meryl Lynch reported that the Xbox 360 could be as low as $250 this spring and MS would still make a profit. The revolution won't be out that soon, and when it does come out, chances are MS will only be charging a couple hundred dollars at the most. So unless the revolution starts at $100 at release, it will most likely be the same or more then the Xbox 360.

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/11/03/console/in dex.php [macworld.com]

Non-Gamers? (1)

MaestroSartori (146297) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007427)

Nintendo's 'problem', if you can call it that, is that they don't target people who don't already play games. I don't know many people who bought a GC as their only console, and almost everyone I know who did buy a GC bought one because they were fans of an existing Nintendo franchise (Mario, Zelda) and wanted the newest title in the range.

The new input device looks to be a way to introduce non-gamers to the machine, but it may look a little gimmicky to them. I'm not a Nintendo fan (I got my GC for Monkey Ball!), but I hope they stick around. At least they're a bit different.

Re:Non-Gamers? (2, Informative)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007454)

That's exactly who they're targeting with the Revolution, based on comments in interviews. And the same approach worked for the DS, so they'll be feeling somewhat confident. I suspect this is their way of ducking out of the increasingly cutthroat specifications war, by carving out a new market niche.

Is an innovative controller enough? (2, Interesting)

kuzb (724081) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007458)

Not to knock Nintendo here, but I'll probably never own one. The reason is simple. The problem is not the controller (I have to admit, it's a neat idea, although I'm skeptical about how comfortable it is), or the hardware, or even the fact that it's Nintendo. It's Nintendo's target audience. The games designed by Nintendo are primarily for kids. We can expect to see more of the cute loveable nintendo icons in many of their titles reincarnated a few thousand times more. These aren't the titles I want out of a console, and this will probably be the only reason I'll get an xbox 360 and skip the revolution all together. To me, price won't be the determining factor. The titles availabale will be.

The same thing happened initially when I got a portable. First I got a DS, however after 6 months of ownership I realized that Nintendo wasn't going to deliver on any of the game types I wanted to see. I sold my DS and got a PSP and haven't looked back since. The PSP simply has more titles which will appeal to the 30+ age group. Especially those who are tired of mario and friends.

Re:Is an innovative controller enough? (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007484)

It's a big problem, alright, and the only real way around it is with good thirdparty support (as Nintendo are probably not going to ditch Mario, Link, and Samus any time soon). The problem is that good thirdparty support depends on good sales of the console, and good sales of the console depend on there being good games (usually from thirdparties). Chicken and egg.

Nintendo arn't playing your game any more (4, Insightful)

Turn-X Alphonse (789240) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007483)

With the DS Nintendo have officially stopped playing Sony/Microsoft's game. They can clearly see that games are being put in a box now with nothing but graphics improving, so they picked up there ball and started a new game. Sony and Microsoft can stay with the graphics grind where as Nintendo will start making some intresting games and change the scene.

Maybe it'll be a hit (like the DS), maybe it'll fail. It's a new direction and a some fresh blood in the old games markets heart. It's not going to hurt Nintendo any if they screw this up because the DS will keep them a float. The cube has a dedicated fanbase (I love mine) which wants to play fun games and graphics don't matter all that much to them. These are the same people who will buy the revolution and love it.

Nintendos job in this "generation" is to try something new, keep their fans happy and forget about Sony and Microsoft. The PSP VS DS "battle" so far has been pretty much 99% in Nintendos favour. Theres a few PSP fans but mostly people have no intrest or are disapointed by their handheld. If it had been GBA Mark 2 VS PSP then the PSP would of won hands down. Yet Nintendo changed the entire game and have so far (Nintendogs being a major part of it) totally owned Sony.

As long as Sony and Microsoft keep throwing thud around about "Hard drive this" and "Media centre" that they'll never beat Nintendo. They may sell more consoles or make more money, but people will only go "ooohhh shiny" so often.

Nintendo isn't pushing CPU tech...and that's good (3, Interesting)

Junks Jerzey (54586) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007489)

Sony developed an entirely new CPU architecture for the PS3.

Microsoft went well beyond the current state of the art for desktops: three custom PowerPC cores on one die, running at 3+ GHz.

And honestly, that's where much of the expense is coming from. It's not like SEGA (with the Genesis) or Nintendo (with the SNES or GC or GBA) or even Sony in the days of the PS1 decided to go with custom processors, let alone processors that shoot for the ultra-high end. Consoles have always been about custom hardware for some things, lowish-end commodity parts for everything else.
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