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Torvalds Gets Tough on Kernel Contributors

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the awkward dept.

Programming 246

ChocLinux writes "Linus Torvalds is cracking down on developers that add last-minute changes to the kernel during the two-week merge window. He says: 'If people miss the merge window or start abusing it with hurried last-minute things that just cause problems for -rc1, I'll just refuse to merge, and laugh in their faces derisively when they whine plaintively at me, and tell them there's going to be a new opening soon enough.'"

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246 comments

Good (4, Interesting)

bblazer (757395) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007496)

While I think that his language is a bit inflammatory, I think that it is something that needs to be done. All the last minute changes must make things very difficult to manage.

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007516)

He is right to refuse last minute rushed changes, but why does he have to be a little bitch about it?

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007764)

If you follow the LKML, Linus appears to be drunk most of the time.

Re:Good (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14008003)

Yeah, if I had written software that then got taken by major coporations to make a fortune and I never saw a dime, I'd be pretty dedicated to the sauce too.

Re:Good (5, Insightful)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007787)

but why does he have to be a little bitch about it?

Linus frequently expresses himself using a type of wry humour which is quite alien to US audiences. It's not bitchy, it just doesn't translate well.

Re:Good (1)

mwood (25379) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007967)

That's just Linus. I'd take it as a means of emphasis, not a personal attack.

Besides, if I ignore The Rules I *deserve* to be laughed at.

Re:Good (2, Informative)

garcia (6573) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007519)

While I think that his language is a bit inflammatory, I think that it is something that needs to be done.

Well, I guess he can't win huh? It's difficult being in his position. He wants the work to get done and he wants to make people happy. I guess him saying, "People always complain that I'm being too soft. Not so this time," is the result of all the grief he puts up with.

Just let it go as long as the patches still come in ;)

Re:Good (1)

external400kdiskette (930221) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007522)

Well inflammatory is right but you have to expect that this would piss anyone off quite a lot if it's such a recurring theme and people have no intention to change their attitude some action had to be taken.

Re:Good (1, Funny)

planetoid (719535) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007601)

It's not really inflammatory if you can't help imagining the speaker saying it in a high-pitched, nasal voice.

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007636)

Yes it's good. One needs to be strict with software merge deadlines, assuming they're reasonable. A few extra features are rarely worth the headaches, unpaid overtime, and bugs which can get introduced with a lax deadline policy.

Re:Good (3, Interesting)

slavemowgli (585321) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007667)

It sure makes you wonder what the two-week window is actually good for, though. I mean... the whole thing was done in order to make sure that there'd be a time for submitting new stuff, and a time for shaking out bugs, and so that people would be able to tell the two apart.

So, why the fuss about last-minute merges now? If they're still in the two-week window, they should be fine; if they're not, well, then they're too late and won't get merged, but that was already clear anyway. And stuff that's not up to par quality-wise yet will (should) not be merged at all, anyway - it's not as if the code quality requirements were lowered for the two-week merge window.

What Linus seems to be doing is to effectively reduce the two-week window to a "something-less-than-two-weeks" window where noone knows exactly how much the difference is, but it does not get rid of the underlying problem: there still is a deadline, and people will still submit lots of stuff just before the deadline's there. It doesn't matter whether it's two weeks or 13 days or whatever.

The whole *point* of the "merge for two weeks, then stop merging and focus on bug fixes" was to be able live with this, so to speak. If you can't fight them, make them join you; if you can't prevent people from submitting stuff in the last minute, make sure that there's enough time *after* the last minute so that last-minute merges won't hurt you. If Linus finds it necessary to crack down on last-minute merges now - which, as I said above, is not really possible in practice (the only way to do it would be to not merge anything at all anymore, but that's obviously not a practical solution) - because there are too many, that just shows that patch pressure is too high already; further increasing it won't help. Rather, you have to look at *why* patch pressure is so high, and do something about that. For example, why not extend the two-week window to three or four weeks? It might mean that new kernel versions appear less often, but in these days of git and distributed development where tree changes are so easy to push/pull and where every distributor uses their own, heavily-patched version of the kernel, anyway, why does it matter so much? Linus has always taken a stance that quality is more important than meeting arbitrary deadlines, I think.

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what he actually wanted to say - I did RTFA, but zdnet is not exactly what I'd call a high-quality source for kernel development news. Caveat lector...

Re:Good (4, Insightful)

Aadain2001 (684036) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007823)

There is a BIG difference between bug fixes and merges, and adding new features. I haven't RTFA, but based on the summary it seems like Linus wants to keep those two weeks dedicated to fixing bugs, merging changes, etc, not adding in new features that were not even coded until that two week window. That is what all the weeks leading up to the merge window is for. Once those two weeks hit, the focus should be 100% on making sure everything works, works together, and is stable. I say, good for Linus! Sometimes the only way to make people listen is to be tough with them.

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007934)

I would generally expect a merge window like this to generally be "time to merge things that are ready at the beginning of the window", and that there's 2 weeks to attempt to do it.

If a subsystem maintainer doesn't have their code landed and generally ready at the beginning couple of days, then there is no time for integration testing and merging with all of the other subsystems that are going in. And that integration testing can *reasonably* take 2 weeks to get done without anyone actually hacking on the code itself.

Re:Good (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14008167)

It sure makes you wonder what the two-week window is actually good for, though. I mean... the whole thing was done in order to make sure that there'd be a time for submitting new stuff, and a time for shaking out bugs, and so that people would be able to tell the two apart.


RTFA or not, you've apparently never been part of a large, ongoing software project that was any good. You DO NOT submit "new stuff" during the merge window! That's what the previous 50 weeks in the year were for.

Two weeks is a manageably aggressive timeframe during which to reconcile compatibility issues across a moderately large codebase. The acceptance of entirely new code during this window potentially starts the reconciliation process all over again at square one. Usually it would be less than that, but if you accept one new submission, you almost have to accept them all. So it could still become a never-ending process, indistinguishable from the preceeding development cycle which the merge window is supposed to define.

Therefore, if you're going to have a cutoff date at all, you've really got to be strict about it or the merge becomes a nightmare.

If you really do have something new and important which absolutely does need to get into the release, then the cutoff date would have been selected to accomodate your new code.

It's not as if there's no dialogue...

Re:Good (1)

Xyrus (755017) | more than 8 years ago | (#14008175)

While true, his latest comments remind me more of the Evil Emperor from Star Wars rather than the benevolent dictator some like to portray him as.

Seriously, I think he could be a little more cordial, even in jest.

~X~

Re:Good (0)

Lord_Dweomer (648696) | more than 8 years ago | (#14008230)

"While I think that his language is a bit inflammatory"

Now, put your tongue in your cheek, and reread his comment, maybe you'll see it from a different perspective.

Bill Gates sucks!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007502)

...all about the eff pee, m8

Stuff that matters (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007503)

Why is this stuff that matters?

Linus talks bullshit again (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007508)

Noone gives a shit about a dead fag.

sounds like business as usual... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007517)

...to me.
We all know that technical genius is mostly incompatible to social skills, but apart from some "harsh" (but understandable) language there's nothing unusual here.
Nothing for you to see here, move along....

Also said... (5, Funny)

Grendel Drago (41496) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007537)

Torvalds later added, "I am legion. All shall kiss my smoldering hoof."

Huh? (1)

poodlehat (919902) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007673)

Could someone please explain that one to me?

Re:Huh? (3, Informative)

Curtman (556920) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007864)

"Could someone please explain that one to me?"

It appears to be a reference to a really bad comic book [google.ca].

Re:Huh? (2, Informative)

hackwrench (573697) | more than 8 years ago | (#14008100)

"My name is legion for we are many" is a quote from the Bible Mark 5, vs. 9. and "smoldering hoof" is from one of the mythical forms of Satan and the notion that Hell is hot.

Sweet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007542)

Linus tries to be a bit like fuckin' hard Theo but fails miserably. ;)

Get Tough! (4, Insightful)

vaderhelmet (591186) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007547)

This sort of thing happens in the corporate environment (at least where stability is valued over new features). I don't see why we shouldn't have some of the same process in OSS. I think this is a bold, yet helpful move by Linus and I congratulate him on taking a stand!

Re:Get Tough! (1)

frostfreek (647009) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007626)

And, does your manager laugh in your face, derisively? Talk about a great way to motivate.
Just who does he think he is, Bill Gates or something?

Re:Get Tough! (1)

IANAAC (692242) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007688)

And, does your manager laugh in your face, derisively?

You must not be in corporate America. Bosses laugh at you derisively all the time.

Thank god I have the type of boss that, while practicing the above-mentioned behaviour, can take it as well as give it.

Re:Get Tough! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14008048)

Nah, sounds more like Steve Jobs, actually.

Obligatory Futurama (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007550)

Prof. Farnsworth: This will not stand! I'll take you on, you air balling bozos!
Bubblegum: You old man? Ha! Sweet Clive, laugh derisively at him.
Sweet Clive: Ahaha, ahaha, aahahaha.

Re:Obligatory Futurama (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007744)

Farnsworth:While you were gone, the 'Trotters held a press conference to announce that I was a jive sucka.

Whaaa?!? (5, Funny)

Moby Cock (771358) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007560)

Linus has a new title:

Not-So-Benevolent (But Exceedingly Pragmatic) Dictator for Life?

Re:Whaaa?!? (4, Funny)

dfn5 (524972) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007617)

Linus has a new title:

Not-So-Benevolent (But Exceedingly Pragmatic) Dictator for Life?

I, for one, welcome our new Linux Kernel Overlord.

Re:Whaaa?!? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007644)

... and his naked-and-petrified posse?

And Linus complains about Slashdot.... (0, Troll)

teewurstmann (755953) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007665)

If Linus talks down to other developers that contribute to Linux in such a primitive way, he shouldn't complain about Slashdot, as he did here: http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95 [lkml.org]. Quote:
Gaah. I don't tend to bother about slashdot, because quite frankly, the whole _point_ of slashdot is to have this big public wanking session with people getting together and making their own "insightful" comment on any random topic, whether they know anything about it or not.

Re:And Linus complains about Slashdot.... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007681)

So...you're disputing him? LOL!

Re:And Linus complains about Slashdot.... (4, Insightful)

imsabbel (611519) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007711)

So you are arguing that Linus shoudlt claim slashdot is all about making unqualified comments and circle jerking them up to +5 insightful,
by making a unqualified comment about linux kernel management and getting modded up for it...

Why not? (3, Insightful)

IANAAC (692242) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007712)

... he shouldn't complain about Slashdot ...

Why not? He was stating an opinion, nothing more.

Controlling a process and stating an opinion are two entirely different things.'

Re:And Linus complains about Slashdot.... (5, Insightful)

Slashcrap (869349) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007767)

If Linus talks down to other developers that contribute to Linux in such a primitive way, he shouldn't complain about Slashdot, as he did here: http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95 [lkml.org]. Quote:

        Gaah. I don't tend to bother about slashdot, because quite frankly, the whole _point_ of slashdot is to have this big public wanking session with people getting together and making their own "insightful" comment on any random topic, whether they know anything about it or not.


Congratulations! We have a winner! The 3rd Annual Slashdot unintentional irony award goes to titwurstman!

He beat all comers this year due to his use of a quote suggesting that people on Slashdot comment on things they know nothing about, to support his Slashdot comment on something he knows nothing about!

The Slashdot editors have now permanently closed the competition, as it is widely agreed that nobody will ever top this year's winner!

Re:And Linus complains about Slashdot.... (0, Offtopic)

hylander_sb (181045) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007905)

Not only that, but his post was modded "Insightful" for an added measure of selfreferential yumminess!

Re:And Linus complains about Slashdot.... (5, Funny)

nurhussein (864532) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007774)

If Linus talks down to other developers that contribute to Linux in such a primitive way, he shouldn't complain about Slashdot, as he did here: http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95 [lkml.org].

Well said, fellow slashdot user teewurstmann of id 755953! With that post, you certainly took Linus Torvalds to task for daring to belittle the collective intelligentsia that is SLASHDOT! As a mere senior kernel developer, founder of the Linux kernel project and leader of the mainline kernel development process certainly he needs to be shown his place by our community of insightful commentators. From mom's basement I stab at thee!

Re:And Linus complains about Slashdot.... (4, Informative)

Qbertino (265505) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007810)

Well isn't that cute. Nice try at a piece of Troll FUD.
And you "wisely" drop the following sentence from what your quoting.

Here's the quote in context:

>>>
Gaah. I don't tend to bother about slashdot, because quite frankly, the
whole _point_ of slashdot is to have this big public wanking session with
people getting together and making their own "insightful" comment on any
random topic, whether they know anything about it or not.

[ And don't get me wrong - I follow slashdot too, exactly because it's fun
    to see people argue. I'm not complaining ;]

And I don't tend to worry about the Inquirer and the Register, because
both of them are all about being rough and saying things in ways that
might not be acceptable in other places, and that's what makes them fun to
read. So when they then write something nasty about Linux (or me), hey, it
goes with the territory.

So much for Linus complaining about slashdot.
You trolling Sucker. :-)

Re:And Linus complains about Slashdot.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007820)

The difference is that people on slashdot generally don't know what they're talking about, whereas Linus certainly does know all about the woes of last-minute changes

Re:And Linus complains about Slashdot.... (2)

hylander_sb (181045) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007838)

the quote continues:

[ And don't get me wrong - I follow slashdot too, exactly because it's fun
    to see people argue. I'm not complaining ;]

He says he's not complaining. Sounds like he's just making a characterization of how discussions go around here...not too far off the mark.

Re:And Linus complains about Slashdot.... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14008193)

Yeah, but he is right about Slashdot.

Enough time? (1)

NCraig (773500) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007674)

From the article:
The kernel development team recently set a policy that new features must be added to the next version of the kernel during the two weeks after the release of the previous version.
I admittedly know nothing about the kernel development process, but two weeks sounds like too little time. Won't this stifle new features and improvements?

Re:Enough time? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007747)

two weeks sounds like too little time

You don't have to make the code in two weeks, you just have to submit it within that time frame, or wait untill next if you are not ready yet. So you can for example start coding now, and post the code after 10 years, but inside the 2 week time frame (assuming this policy is still used then, and your code still works with the current kernel at that time).

Re:Enough time? (2, Insightful)

mwood (25379) | more than 8 years ago | (#14008069)

The best thing that could happen to mankind is the stifling of certain new features and improvements. My modal reaction to "upgrades" from certain other software suppliers is, "how do I disable that?"

Anyway if you miss the window for kernel J.K.L there's always J.K.L+1 coming along. Meanwhile people with a burning desire for your patch can get it from you. It's annoying, but the person you should be annoyed with lives in your mirror.

In other news... (5, Funny)

Call Me Black Cloud (616282) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007675)


Steve Ballmer referred to him as an "amateur" and offered to tutor him in the art of anger.

Re:In other news... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007811)

Actually this is what he *really* said:
I am going to f***ing make Linus kill himself.

Re:In other news... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007836)

This is where the collaborative open-source model is doomed to fail vs the proprietary model: it is simply impossible to throw a chair on the Internet. With this handicap, Mr. Torvalds will never be able to match Mr. Ballmer's leadership abilities.

Re:In other news... (1)

MoonRug (324248) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007971)

... and also offered to show how to show appreciation of all the kernel folks:

"DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS (gaaaasp) DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPers DEVell (gassssp) ... "

lol (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007677)

funny how everyone complains about Gates, too. when Torvalds is just as insane and tyrant-y

Language? (0)

h_benderson (928114) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007689)

'If people miss the merge window or start abusing it with hurried last-minute things that just cause problems for -rc1, I'll just refuse to merge, and laugh in their faces derisively when they whine plaintively at me, and tell them there's going to be a new opening soon enough.'
Linus should choose his words a bit wiser than that. It makes him sound like an arrogant a-hole on a powertrip.

That said, I completely agree with his point and I would do the same if I were in his position (except the derisively laughing, of course).

Re:Language? (1)

Turn-X Alphonse (789240) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007768)

"If you want to put stuff in the kernel then do it when it's easiest for us to check it. If you refuse to cause problems and keep doing this then I'll tell you to piss off" would be a nicer translation.

Re:Language? (0, Offtopic)

mwood (25379) | more than 8 years ago | (#14008140)

So you believe that winged monkeys really *do* fly out of people's backsides from time to time? Look up "figurative language" -- it could change your life!

Anyway, on email the closest you can get to derisive laughter is "/\/\/\/\/\/\". Oh, the cruelty!

Much ado about nothing (5, Insightful)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007730)

This is simply a manager telling others off that they can not miss deadlines. It happens all the time in any business. Difference is, that Linux development is in the open.

Re:Much ado about nothing (1)

nine-times (778537) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007909)

Difference is, that Linux development is in the open.

Which means, if you don't like it, make your own damn kernel!

Right attitude! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007732)

That is _exactly_ the right attitude you must have if you're going to maintain anything near as complex thing as Linux kernel.
 
If I'd be Linus, I'd say "Fuck off!" instead of saying it politely like that.

You call that tough? (1, Funny)

Qbertino (265505) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007740)

He's merely doing his job as lead maintainer - which usually includes a little verbal dutch rub for the team once in a while.
Getting tough is more like "Do that once more and I'll have Don Papa and his mob minions knocking at your door with a fresh set of baseball clubs!" or something like that.

Re:You call that tough? (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007778)

"Do that once more and I'll have Don Papa and his mob minions knocking at your door with a fresh set of baseball clubs!"

What are baseball clubs?

Re:You call that tough? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007990)

They're instruments of pain, as opposed to the same used to bat baseballs you can instead use them to club (or clobber) those in need of a little physical motivation *cracks knucles* capiche? j/k :)

Yeah I know you were just aiming to be a language nazi but noone cares about that. If you ask stupid enough rethorical questions you can't really complain about being taken the piss at.

Re:You call that tough? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14008113)

The Rangers, The Pirates....

Oh, wait, no I guess they *aren't* baseball clubs after all.... ;>

BWAH-HA-HA-HA!

Let us not forget (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007745)

He did sort of start the whole linux thing.
I know i sure as --ll get pissed off when I just finish a project at work and they throw in two more requests AFTER testing is over.
That, and I sort of suspect his wording could be do to English not being his main language.

Re:Let us not forget (2, Insightful)

Zen Punk (785385) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007927)

Go read some of Linus's LKML or Usenet posts. He is conversationally fluent in English. You would have no way to tell he is not from an English-speaking country if you didn't know beforehand.

Re:Let us not forget (2, Funny)

oneandoneis2 (777721) | more than 8 years ago | (#14008216)

Go read some of Linus's LKML or Usenet posts. He is conversationally fluent in English. You would have no way to tell he is not from an English-speaking country if you didn't know beforehand.

You would if you heard him speak - he completely mis-pronounces the word "Linux", for example ;o)

Re:Let us not forget (1)

east coast (590680) | more than 8 years ago | (#14008074)

I know i sure as --ll get pissed off when I just finish a project at work and they throw in two more requests AFTER testing is over.

Really? Most coders know this is standard operating procedure.

If my boss (-1, Troll)

Frankie70 (803801) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007758)

If my boss used this tone with me, I would quit the job.
Of course, the people he is talking down to were never hired(or paid)
so they can't even quit.

Re:If my boss (2, Insightful)

germ!nation (764234) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007831)

"If my boss used this tone with me, I would quit the job."

If you were chucking code into a major public release candidate 2 weeks before launch, I'm sure your quitting window would be rather short as you would be fired before too long.

No one involved is a child; suck it up, do some push-ups if required, and make sure you do things right next time.

Re:If my boss (1)

Soruk (225361) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007861)

But, if you were constantly submitting work late, holding up your colleagues or trying to do it in a rush so breaking something, then your boss would have every right to take this tone with you.

Re:If my boss (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007878)

Let me guess, you don't have a job...

Well Said! (2, Insightful)

Lee_in_KC (816490) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007884)

" If my boss used this tone with me, I would quit the job."

Spoken like a true college Sophomore.

Ouch. (1, Funny)

kelleher (29528) | more than 8 years ago | (#14008207)

and having been a college sophmore once I must agree with you...

Those were the days - back when I knew everything and wouldn't take constructive critisism from anyone!

Re:If my boss (1)

pentalive (449155) | more than 8 years ago | (#14008072)

Sure they can quit, apply their skill to some other project. Enough of them do that and the kernel just stops in it's tracks. For that matter, what's to stop a group of them from forking the kernel?

MOD PARENT DOWN (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14008078)

I'm curious...are you really this dumb?
First of all, good luck ever keeping a job with that attitude. You'd be lucky to not get fired from McDonalds.
Second, since when does working for free mean you can't quit? You mean it's impossible for a volunteer to quit?

Just what we need... (-1, Flamebait)

Internet Ronin (919897) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007828)

Linus Torvald is obviously just a pompous ass software lead, who, while a proper motivator to be sure, uses strong arm tactics and intimidation and harsh language to promote buy-in from his staff. This type of childish behavior should be considered unacceptable because frankly... Steve Jobs was here first.

Re:Just what we need... (1)

gentleolas (609359) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007948)

Who knows his team's motivations better? They probably like the dominating tone! ;-) Whip-CRACK!

Last minute changes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14007844)

This is currently a huge issue with my team. Marketing makes demands at the last minute, and often even after General Availability releases. Changes at that point are very simply a bad idea.

More like this? (5, Funny)

MECC (8478) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007865)

Developer: Here's my patch. Sorry its late...
Linus: The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee....

Take lessons from Steve Balmer (0, Troll)

Nonillion (266505) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007866)

I guess Linus could follow the likes of Steve Balmer and use colorful words like "kill" "fuckers" and then throw chairs.

"Just for Fun" (4, Funny)

McSnickered (67307) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007893)

In Torvalds' book, "Just for Fun", he laughs in the reader's face derisively as they look at the printed words plaintively.

Somewhere, there's got to be a "Deep Thought" by Jack Handy about Linus T.

"Contrary to what most people say, the most dangerous animal in the world is not the lion or the tiger or even the elephant. It's a shark riding on an elephant's back, just trampling and eating everything they see." ~ Jack Handy

I laugh in your general direction (4, Insightful)

minus9 (106327) | more than 8 years ago | (#14007925)

Having just read the thirty or so posts that have been made as I write this, I cannot believe I am the only one who read the "laugh derisively" bit as tongue-in-cheek.

Do you really imagine Linus will start jumping on planes and seeking out kernel contributers to laugh in their faces. Bloody hell, I know geeks have trouble with anything not strictly literal but sheesh.

I read it as "Certain people are repeatedly making changes at the last minute and I'd really rather they didn't".

Re:I laugh in your general direction (1)

pqdave (470411) | more than 8 years ago | (#14008222)

Do you really imagine Linus will start jumping on planes and seeking out kernel contributers to laugh in their faces. Bloody hell, I know geeks have trouble with anything not strictly literal but sheesh.

...and if it were true, how many kernel contributors would increase their late patches just for the chance to meet Linus?

He's absolutely right! (4, Insightful)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 8 years ago | (#14008062)

Think of this: All the reported bugs have been fixed, you're about to make a new release, and a last minute change introduces an awry bug that forces you to make ANOTHER release.

And what happens if in that "another release" another guy makes ONE MORE last minute change and... well you get the idea.

I've seen this happen at sourceforge projects, and this is what gives Open Source such a bad reputation - buggy projects. Sure, 999 bugs have been fixed, but 10 major flaws are introduced with the next version. Just search any SF project's bugs for "crash" or "segfault", and you'll get the idea (and these are reports about RELEASES, not cvs). And why does this happen? Because of devs NOT RESPECTING the timings!

So, please guys, p-l-e-a-s-e, respect the timing! This is Linux we're talking about, not some hobby project.

Fork it! (2, Insightful)

BigPoppaT (842802) | more than 8 years ago | (#14008124)

For all you who don't like how Linus is handling this, hey fork the code, start your own development. </sarcasm>

Maybe his phrasing was a bit harsh, but remember that he is not just a developer - he really plays the role of Project Manager here, and sometimes the PM has to send a wakeup call. That's what this sounds like. Not that big a deal.

Think about all the failed FOSS projects where nobody did this - UserLinux and Hurd spring to mind. (Now for some posts telling me that Hurd isn't a failure, even though it's not production-ready after what, 16 years now?) Makes you kind of glad Linus is managing this thing.

Re:Fork it! (1)

Slack3r78 (596506) | more than 8 years ago | (#14008239)

If I'm not mistaken, HURD recently scrapped a good amount of the work that's been done to migrate to a new Kernel. Amused me because it was just after they'd finally gotten their first userspace binary running on the system.

...and this is considered 'news'... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14008189)

...why?
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