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HAARP Amping It Up

samzenpus posted more than 8 years ago | from the listen-to-my-thoughts dept.

United States 292

n6kuy writes "HAARP (the High frequency Active Auroral Research Program) will be adding 132 more transmitters to bring their total number of transmitters to 180. "When the massive planar array for ionospheric research is completed in 2007, it will include a total of 180 Continental Electronics D616G 10-kW combined transmitters, which the company is upgrading specifically for HAARP," the supplier (Continental) stated. The facility is near Gakona, Alaska. The installation began in 1993 with 18 transmitters, expanded to 48 in 1998 and will grow to 180 transmitters. The final expansion will bring the HAARP array to full power, with ERP increasing from 84 dBW to about 96 dBW. 96dBW is about 4 billion Watts. There is speculation that the project is really an "effort to develop ways to jam the electronics of incoming missiles from Russia and/or China". 4 billion Watts oughtta do it."

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292 comments

die whales (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14049871)

4 billion watts out to blow them up too

Re:die whales (0, Offtopic)

Trigun (685027) | more than 8 years ago | (#14049883)

Or just f*cking everything that moves. We're going to have a lot of tired whales, and a very protein rich ocean.

first post! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14049877)

first post

lol (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14049879)

shit sux

Wow big suprise US spending billions on defense (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14049888)

Wow big suprise billions of dollars spent on defense programs, if the US wasnt bent on pissing off everyone else in the world we could spend those billions on more productive things like alternative energy!

Re:Wow big suprise US spending billions on defense (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050027)

Yes and a magical purple bunny might come along and make that alternative energy a reality! Unfortunately, you didn't spend anything on defense so some other country just took your energy source and the bunny. They left your wife, pity.

Fortunately, the magical purple bunny was the last defense project that the US spent money on. That other country will be in for a surprise come Easter.

Besides, we all know that there was no war before the US started pissing everyone off. Actually, War was born right after G.W. Bush popped out of Barbara Bush. War is Bush's non-evil twin - The secret is out, now you know what the W in W stands for: W as in WAR. Yes George W(ar) Bush's full name is George War Bush. The non-evil twin is W(ar) George Bush. Strangely, the twins share a common last name. The other twin permutations were lost in a rather nasty incident on the way out of Barb during berthing. It seems that a simple case of negative pressure and a poor US healthcare system led to their demise. The evil Christian priests attending the berthing tried a plunger but it was dirty so Barbara screamed "Get that damn dirty plunger well away from there! Those my special baby berthing pieces and I can't get them that dirty!" By the time the plunger was cleaned the other Bushes were lost somewhere deep in the heart of Texas or Barbara. The search teams never returned so the mystery was never solved. Rumor has it that the lost twins did attend Yale and also received better grades than John Kerry.

Anyway, Barb serves little importance to the tale. Her duty as the pneumatic tube of War and George served, Barbara returned to a life of drunken debauchery, knitting, and ballroom brawling - ninja style. It must be explained that neither George War nor War George ever really cared for the magical purple bunny. The bunny's soft fluffy fur was of no interest to the War brothers. No, it's simple you see, George War and War George both preferred the prickly stubble of each other's unshaven face. They referred to the prickly intercourse as their love brush. They would often say Love Brush real fast until one would slip and say Love Bush. Given that we're talking about George Bush he would normally fuck it up about half way through the first incantation of his accursed name.

Good troll. I like to feed 'em. I choose to feed this one insanity with a generous portion of love.

Re:Wow big suprise US spending billions on defense (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050174)

Righteous

Re:Wow big suprise US spending billions on defense (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050264)

Fool! What have you done? You have uttered the dreaded evil right wing Christian George War and War George battle cry: the cry for righteousness. You have broken the second seal and the seal is really tired of abuse. First the damn sonar now your unnecessary loud mouth jib-a-jab. This simple refrain has already plunged the Pacific Northwest into quiet a cold spell -- a spell designed to lull the USAsian sheeple into the mistaken belief that George War and War George's global warming is much like the Magical Purple Bunny's singing career: non-existent - well at least until Easter. But all hell will break lose on Easter for Easter is War and George's favorite day of death, destruction, and motor car racing.

Certainly, reiterating this accursed cry may very well plunge most of the rest of everywhere else into a place not quiet mired in reality but definitely not mired in Barbara - for there be dragons in there. And as Barbara always says "Stay yourself far from my dragons. For my dragons are lusty and will not be as restrained as my will is soft and I cling to reality with scotch tape."

It is now time for me to reveal more hellish truths. Curse you War! Curse you George! Damn your dead permutations as well. I think we must all prepare for the Easter transformation. For on Easter the Magical Purple Bunny will form a most unholy trinity along with George War and War George. When placed upon the Crawford Texas Big Boy, on Easter, Orthodox Easter to be exact, the George and War will re-enact their secret scull and bones ritual. When done with the beer bong the two will turn upon the hapless bunny and shave all of its delicate perfect fur. Worse, they will bind the poor bunny and refuse to shave its stubble.

Yes, you guessed it you pathetic fool. They will make sweet Love Bush with the rabbit. This sin against nature will transform the Magical Purple Bunny into Easter Claws. With the unholy right wing, black oppressing, gay bashing, beer swilling, trifacta complete, the War George and George War will begin their unjust actions against toast, terrorists, and that damn snot nosed fool who decided to spend their precious defense budget on foolish alternative energy sources.

Time is short. The drugs are wearing off. Be warned. Beware! Easter Claws is coming (all over my face). Beware! You will know that the Claws is near by its hellish call: bugga bugga!!!

Repent now. But stay away from the ball rooms. Prefer the bat room.

Re:Wow big suprise US spending billions on defense (3, Informative)

killjoe (766577) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050243)

"Besides, we all know that there was no war before the US started pissing everyone off. "

IN the last few decades the US has been involved in more wars then any other country on the planet. The problem we have with George is that he is waging war for profit, fun, and because "god told him to" (his words not mine).

Re:Wow big suprise US spending billions on defense (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050502)

Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. That is, sometimes you have to start a fire in one direction to prevent a wall of fire comming at you from the other direction.

War is the same thing. Sometimes we have to kill those that wish to kill us. Now what would your rather choose? Islamic facist killing the inocent over and over again in the name of a perversion of Islam the believe? Or, would you rather put them down like the sick dogs they are so as to have them kill anymore.

You can take humans out of nature, but you cannot take the nature out of humans.

Re:Wow big suprise US spending billions on defense (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050523)

And you're saying Iraq wanted to kill us? Um, ok..

Ah conspiracy... (2, Funny)

pookemon (909195) | more than 8 years ago | (#14049889)

"effort to develop ways to jam the electronics of incoming missiles from Russia and/or China"

And Elvis is overseeing the project. I'm sure he hates those damn russian missiles... Oh wait, aren't they friendly now?

(The russians, not the missiles).

Re:Ah conspiracy... (1)

temojen (678985) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050036)

There's also speculation that it, along with "chemtrails", is being used for mind control. Just don't point out that it's a crazy idea to those who believe it. They'll think you're part of the conspiracy (or worse, a psychiatrist).

Re:Ah conspiracy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050206)

not just mind control, I believe the ability to randomly make people sick, control the weather and cause earthquakes are also part of the conspiracy.

I hope this is really anonymous or "they" will come get m........

**CARRIER LOST**

Re:Ah conspiracy... (1)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050136)

They sould be friendly. They weren't back in the 80 when reagans starwars project created this. The initial funding for HAARP came from the starwars initiative. I guess the might have found better uses for it.

From TFA (and other materials on the subject) (5, Informative)

Senes (928228) | more than 8 years ago | (#14049891)

HAARP is a United States defense project, one of the many defense measures against nuclear warfare. For more information, see this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAARP [wikipedia.org] (Wikipedia.org)

Ways to get modded up... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050347)

Post a link to a Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] article.
Post the full article.
Step 1,2,3,4 profit.
Cowboy Neal.

Re:From TFA (and other materials on the subject) (5, Informative)

deglr6328 (150198) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050482)

HAARP is being upgraded by the DOD as a "defense measure against nuclear warfare", but not in the sense that you or the other hundred odd Art Bell quoting posters here seem to think. Specifically, it is not being used to "jam" or "shoot down" any ICBMs or some such nonsense because that is impossible and is well...what's the phrase here that I'm looking for...oh right...fucking retardedly impossible.

So why is the Pentagon interested in upgrading HAARP to ~4 GW? Well, if you do some research on HANEs (high altitude nuclear explosions) you will find that a nuclear explosion of even modest energy (100 KTons) is sufficient, when detonated at an altitude of greater than a couple 100 Km, of flooding the Van Allen belts with high energy electrons. (the native electron population of the radiation belts is "heated" via inverse bremsstrahlung from the hard X-rays emitted by the nuclear detonation) It is even capapble of creating NEW radiation belts at lower altitudes than normally found and it is thus estimated, extrapolating from experiments such as starfish prime [wikipedia.org] in the 50's, that virtually ALL sattelites in LEO would be destroyed within days by ESD and radiation damage if an event like this were to occur.
HOWEVER! HAARP is capable of irradiating the ionosphere with VLF EM radiation of quite high intensity and thus can alter the so called "auroral electrojet", creating a ginormous "virtual VLF antenna" in it by altering its temperature (and thus its conductance). The HAARP is thereby capable of depopulating the radiation belts of high energy charged particles in a fraction of the time it would ordinarilly take for them to calm down on thier own and thus potentially saving the many sattelites in LEO. Sound crazy? Well, sometimes truth is stranger than fiction [apc.org] , and THAT is why the Pentagon is interested in this thing, not for some kooky mind control/weather control/ray gun type kookery.

Shit (1, Interesting)

Wes Janson (606363) | more than 8 years ago | (#14049896)

The conspiracy theorists were right all along, as we're about to learn for ourselves very shortly.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Jamming missiles, don't be silly... (5, Funny)

mkraft (200694) | more than 8 years ago | (#14049898)

It's obviously a time travel experiment.
4 Gigawatts is enough to power 3 DeLoreans with power to spare.

Re:Jamming missiles, don't be silly... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14049923)

Do you think it could stop %sys%missiles ???

Re:Jamming missiles, don't be silly... (2, Funny)

sergiorepo (207331) | more than 8 years ago | (#14049929)

Um, More like 1,809954751 DeLoreans. As everyone knows, time travel requires an even 2.21 GW

Re:Jamming missiles, don't be silly... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14049979)

Uh, its 1.21 gigawatts. I've seen the movie about 1.21 giga-times

Re:Jamming missiles, don't be silly... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050199)

Jigga Whats?

Re:Jamming missiles, don't be silly... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050084)

It's really 1.21 jijawatts as shown in the script. A big difference in power! Hell, I don't even know how much jiga- mean in the SI system? Anyone know?

Tinfoil Hats Won't Save You Now! (1)

Guysmiley777 (880063) | more than 8 years ago | (#14049908)

Art Bell, paging Art Bell...

Re:Tinfoil Hats Won't Save You Now! (1)

kimvette (919543) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050078)

Don't forget your tinfoil hat! Oh wait, that will amplify the signals they're using to search for your porn collection --- or so "they" want you to believe.

idle spec (4, Interesting)

Red Flayer (890720) | more than 8 years ago | (#14049912)

FTFSpeculation: "it seems to me like it's some efffort to develop ways to jam the electronics of incoming missiles from Russia and/or China (I don't think it's an accident HAARP's initial funding came from Reagan's "Star Wars" initiative)"

It could also be that the Star Wars Initiative was based on satellites being able to communicate, and communication in the ionosphere (with endemic electrical currents) was thought to be possibly very tricky, especially in latitudes where the northern lights are a visible manifestation of such.

/tinfoil (not aluminum foil) hat half-off

This only works at night? (3, Interesting)

xxxJonBoyxxx (565205) | more than 8 years ago | (#14049927)

Did I read this correctly: that HAARP only works at night?

"Ionospheric heating cannot be performed while the sun illuminates the ionosphere for two reasons:

        * Solar UV creates the ionospheric D-region, which absorbs the radio waves used for ionospheric heating.
        * The solar flux overwhelms any effect of ionospheric heating. "

Re:This only works at night? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050045)

Actually, to be more specific, the D-region is formed by solar Lyman alpha photoionization of nitric oxide (NO), with a smaller and more variable contribution from soft X-rays ionizing N2 and O2.

HF radio waves are absorbed mostly in the D-region, and at times can be completely blacked out by elevated electron densities caused by various ionospheric disturbances, including solar X-ray flares and "Polar Cap Absorption" events caused by solar proton events.

The solar (extreme ultraviolet, shortwards of Lyman alpha) flux photoionizes the neutral atmosphere (mostly N2 and O2) creating ions by ejecting photoelectrons from the neutral molecules. These photoelectrons have energies typically up to about 100 eV (electron Volts). The "hot" photoelectrons collide with the cold ambient ionospheric electrons through the Coulomb interaction thereby heating the ionospheric electrons.

The radar heats ionospheric electrons to only a fraction of an eV. However, there are enough electrons in the tail of the heated Maxwellian distribution to excite the atomic oxygen auroral "red line" emission at 6300 Angstroms (630 nm), which has an excitation threshold of 1.96 eV. This red glow produced by radar heating is visible from the ground (with instruments).

I'm one of the "experts" quoted on the HAARP site, although I have absolutely nothing to do with it. However, I find the conspiracy theories regarding HAARP quite amusing. Why? because I can calculate exactly what the radar is doing - that's how I make my living.

Re:This only works at night? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050261)

An article about HAARP and then someone who explains it gets a score 2 Interesting?

Slashdot sucks

I have no idea... (3, Interesting)

FuturePastNow (836765) | more than 8 years ago | (#14049933)

...how much RF energy it takes to damage a missile. But, by the time it flies over Alaska, the missile would be a ballistic warhead that has to do nothing more than detonate at a predetermined altitude. I imagine it could be made pretty simple, and therefore hard to kill.

But, four billion watts is a lot of power. The HAARP [alaska.edu] power page says that for every four watts of power transmitted, ten must be generated (40% efficiency). That's ten gigawatts, and the six diesel generators mentioned on the site produce only fifteen megawatts. Where does the extra power come from? Capacitors? If so, it would only be able to produce a single large pulse. That would be pretty useless against missiles (which wouldn't all come at once).

Re:I have no idea... (4, Informative)

mpoulton (689851) | more than 8 years ago | (#14049974)

<i>But, four billion watts is a lot of power. The HAARP power page says that for every four watts of power transmitted, ten must be generated (40% efficiency). That's ten gigawatts, and the six diesel generators mentioned on the site produce only fifteen megawatts. Where does the extra power come from?</i>

It's not actually 4GW. It's only 3.6MW peak envelope power. 4GW is the max ERP, or effective radiated power, under optimal conditions. ERP accounts for antenna gain. In other words, the field strength is the same as that from a 4GW transmitter with an isotropically radiating antenna.
See the HAARP site's technical info on phases of completion at: http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/haarp/phases.html

Re:I have no idea... (1)

FuturePastNow (836765) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050129)

Thanks. I was hoping there was a mistake in there somewhere (it should be pretty clear that I'm no expert on this stuff, just a bit interested).

Re:I have no idea... (2, Informative)

Ironsides (739422) | more than 8 years ago | (#14049978)

I have no idea how much RF energy it takes to damage a missile. But, by the time it flies over Alaska, the missile would be a ballistic warhead that has to do nothing more than detonate at a predetermined altitude. I imagine it could be made pretty simple, and therefore hard to kill.

All modern warheads use precision timed, placed and shaped explosives to turn a subcritical amount of uranium/plutonium into a supercritical nuclear explosion. If any part is damaged sufficiently, you will (at worst) not have a nuclear explosion but a dirty bomb. If the electronic controls are damaged sufficiently, there would be no explosion at all. All modern warheads use electronically controled explosives.

There are two types of bombs where there would be no electronics in it. Even in this, there is the possibility of an RF weapon causing enough damage. The first is where, instead of using explosives to cause an explosion, the two pieces of nuclear material are jammed together upon impact with the ground. A sufficient ammount of RF would still be able to distort the material of the warhead enough so they do not jam together properly and go supercritical.

The second part, involves a critical ammount of Plutonium. Take 16kg of plutonium, put it together, and you get a nuclear explosion. During flight, the halves would have to be kept seperate. I'm not sure if there is a way that does not involve electronics that would move the pieces together that is not similar to the way above. Either way, if you warp/melt the material enough it won't explode.

Two final things. A lot (if not all) of ICBMs make course corrections mid flight. If the guidance electronics are messed up prior to the final corrections, it will fly off targe. Second, MIRVs would also be messed up in a similar way. I'm not sure there is a type of nuclear missle/warhead that would not be messed up by a sufficient ammount of RF.

Re:I have no idea... (1)

Gordonjcp (186804) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050278)

The second part, involves a critical ammount of Plutonium. Take 16kg of plutonium, put it together, and you get a nuclear explosion. During flight, the halves would have to be kept seperate. I'm not sure if there is a way that does not involve electronics that would move the pieces together that is not similar to the way above. Either way, if you warp/melt the material enough it won't explode.


Clockwork. You could use a mechanical timer to control the fuse in a weapon using the gun method [wikipedia.org] to fire a pellet of fissionable material into a suitable target, thus bringing together a critical mass. It's inefficient and requires quite a lot of the material to work, compared to modern weapons. Does it work? Ask anyone around Hiroshima on 6/8/45...

If you wanted to detonate at a certain altitude, use a barometer to hold an escapement back, which would release the firing mechanism at a predetermined altitude.

Re:I have no idea... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14049980)

That's simple to explain - it's a doomsday weapon. You only need it to go off once in that case. Someone tries to nuke the US and they trigger it generating a planetwide EMP burst and knocking humanity back into the stone age in one fell swoop.

Re:I have no idea... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14049992)

It wouldn't be hard for the military to procure nuclear reactors to produce the electrical power and fund them via the vast black budget, but if they're indeed planning on running the array at its maximum output, that would require a huge power plant and a cooling array to match it. No such cooling array is evident from any photos, nor are there any obvious excavations nearby where such a power plant would be.

Of course, as a lifelong conspiracy theorist and raving lunatic, I am of the opinion that given the huge amounts of black budget funding they have been consuming over many decades, that it is quite possible that they have developed, among other things, a source of power more efficient and less conspicuous than nuclear fission, and if they did, there's no way in hell that they'll ever tell anybody about it.
 

Re:I have no idea... (1)

falken0905 (624713) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050049)

The final output was quoted as being ERP. ERP is Effective Radiated Power. ERP = ((Transmitter output power) - (transmission line loss)) x (Antenna Gain). Approximately. The extra output comes from antenna gain. Making the antenna directional gives effective gain. The more highly directional the higher the gain. Then aim it at something (muhahahah).

Re:I have no idea... (2, Informative)

goodmanj (234846) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050092)

pretty simple, and therefore hard to kill.

So I worked a few numbers, assuming that the radio transmitters had a wavelength of 100 meters (shortwave), which puts a limit on how tightly you could focus the radio beam. If tightly focused, this array could create an electromagnetic wave with an intensity orders of magnitude more powerful than sunlight, and the electric fields associated with the radio waves would amount to millions of volts per meter. With this kind of power, your goal isn't to zap sensitive microchips: you're thinking about vaporizing thick copper wiring in milliseconds. Maybe even damaging the exterior structure of the warhead.

fifteen megawatts. Where does the extra power come from? Capacitors?

Duty cycle. Charge up capacitors at 15 MW for a couple seconds, zap at 10GW for a couple milliseconds, cook one missile, find another one, recharge another couple seconds, zap again. You might not have time to take out an entire World War III strike this way, but a handful of North Korean nukes? Not a problem.

And anyway, it's possible that the generators are just local redundant backups. Wouldn't be too hard to hook this thing up to a civilian power grid and have access to gigawatts of electrical power. (Okay, Alaska doesn't exactly have gigawatts lying around on street corners, but still, delivering power a few hundred miles from Anchorage is probably doable.)

Re:I have no idea... (1)

goodmanj (234846) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050122)

Meh. I though a bit more about the size of the transmitter, and there's no way to actually focus the power that tightly with an array this small in acreage. You'd need something that stretched for miles. The upgrade will cover more ground, but not *that* much more, if it's just more of the same.

Re:I have no idea... (1)

Bruha (412869) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050476)

What about the resistance of air. For every 3 feet your power is cut in half.. So 4 billion watts at 3 feet is 2 billion.. 1 billion at 6, 500million at 9, etc etc..

Course I think that depends on frequency and other factors but that's the equiation used in the cellular industry..

Off-topic Megawatt story (4, Funny)

crazyphilman (609923) | more than 8 years ago | (#14049943)

When I was a wee lad, I had a very interesting, somewhat cranky physics professor. I had bought a several-milliwatt helium-neon laser tube via catalog. Due to a typo, they had claimed its power as something like 4MW, which I interpereted to mean it literally was four megawatts. I was ecstatic and couldn't wait to share my great good fortune with my prof.

I showed the prof the ad, and told him that when the laser came in, maybe we could try it out.

He repeated "4 megawatts? What are you going to do, shoot planes down?"

I said, "Nah, I'm a pacifist. Maybe we can zap one'a them light poles around the quad. Besides, it says so right there. 4MW."

He said "Ah, so it does. And it takes a 9-volt battery?"

I said, "It's got a transformer."

He clenched his lips together extremely tightly, and screwed his eyes shut. He looked briefly like he was rumbling. Then, he gained control over it and said, "Well, you'll have to bring that baby in, kid. I'll be right back..."

Years later, looking back, I'm pleased I was able to give a man his age the belly laugh I'm sure he went out in the hall to enjoy. It's the little pleasures that make life worthwhile...

A better title for your post would have been... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050019)

A story of pathetic dweeb losers.

Re:A better title for your post would have been... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050204)

"A story of pathetic dweeb losers."

    jealous much? you're reading slashdot at 12:27 am and commenting on laser beams

who's a deeb loser again?

More conspiracy theories (4, Insightful)

iamlucky13 (795185) | more than 8 years ago | (#14049952)

You've gotta love the unfounded conspiracy theories surrounding HAARP. Jamming the Chinese is the only plausible alternate explanation I've heard yet. If people are so convinced that something evil is going on up there, how about asking some of the grad students at University of Alaska [alaska.edu] ? Everybody knows grad students will sing for a mere six pack or an offer to show their resume to your boss.

The array has so far produced localized auroras (go Google it yourself, I'm not your mother), which is one of the effects it was predicted to be able to achieve in addition to providing a theoretical way to improve radio reception, but I've heard some great crackpot theories. Most come from the tin-foil hat people who think it's a mind control device, but there's some lame stuff like destroying the ozone layer over only blue or only red states so Democrats/Republicans will all die of skin cancer or find oil sources for the big companies with government funding. The best, however, is the suggestion that it controls earthquakes. 'HAARP' + 'earthquake' is an entertaining google search. Iran, Sumatra, you name it. It was a secret government attack. Oh yeah, don't forget Hurricane Katrina. Obviously a creation of HAARP.

Re:More conspiracy theories (0)

onyx pi (689409) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050007)

but I've heard some great crackpot theories. Most come from the tin-foil hat people who think it's a mind control device,

And why is that a crackpot theory?
What if that is an application/useful side-effect of Unified Field Theory?
Yes, *that* UFT!
Food for thought...

Re:More conspiracy theories (3, Insightful)

killjoe (766577) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050237)

I have set up firefox with the BBC news liveboorkmarks. Yesterday I saw a headline that said the US army finally admitted using phosphorus bombs against human targets (but of course denied killing civillians and denied the fact that these bombs which deployed chemicals were chemical weapons). Just earlier that day US officials in London had denied using these weapons against humans. They were continuing the same lie they had been telling since the attack on fallujia.

I then went over to CNN to see what they had to say and it was nowhere on their web site. It also wasn't on the web sites of ABCnews and needless to say it wasn't on the web site of FoxNews either (Fox news web site is hilarious! they should just replace their banner with Republicans RULEZ!).

Anyway...

Can you really blame people when they don't take the word of the US govt? Can you really blame the people when they don't trust the so-called free press to give them unbiased news?

How can you really be sure exactly what HAARP is being used for?

Re:More conspiracy theories (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050414)

I have set up firefox with the BBC news liveboorkmarks. Yesterday I saw a headline that said the US army finally admitted using phosphorus bombs against human targets (but of course denied killing civillians and denied the fact that these bombs which deployed chemicals were chemical weapons). Just earlier that day US officials in London had denied using these weapons against humans. They were continuing the same lie they had been telling since the attack on fallujia.
If you can call white phosphorus a chemical weapon, than so are guns and bombs.
I then went over to CNN to see what they had to say and it was nowhere on their web site. It also wasn't on the web sites of ABCnews and needless to say it wasn't on the web site of FoxNews either (Fox news web site is hilarious! they should just replace their banner with Republicans RULEZ!).
The reason there was no mention of it is that it was covered several news cycles ago. It turns out it's crap. Who knew?
How can you really be sure exactly what HAARP is being used for?
Because we're not goddamned idiots.

Re:More conspiracy theories (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050516)

Phosphorus bombs are considered incendiary/marking devices, not chemical weapons. By your definition, a Molotov cocktail is a chemical weapon because it deploys chemicals. What's really great about WP is that it's heavier than air and it seeps into foxholes, tunnels, bunkers, etc and forces the occupants out into the line of fire. Yet another bullshit issue championed by the Marxists on behalf of their Islamic allies.

Re:More conspiracy theories (2)

Cl1mh4224rd (265427) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050298)

HAARP: The Swiss Army Knife of Conspiracy Theories.

I don't think I've heard of any one project being the source of so many "evil" events, natural and man-made. Hell, some people will even claim is was used to steer and strengthen a hurricane to further some mysterious group's plan for global depopulation in once sentence, and in the very next claim it was used to dissipate another hurricane for an "unknown agenda". Wow...

Weather (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050024)

Jesus, like the last hurricane they made with this thing wasn't big enough?!

NO JOKE (1)

CranberryKing (776846) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050028)

This motherfucker is going to the one to bring us into the "new age". Still think the unusual weather is from global warming? HAARP is the clumsy attempt to try to continue Nicola Tesla's brilliant work, all be it death rays and such. I'm sure he is rolling in his grave. Wether it is free energy or zapping an embassy from miles away, this is the one that will change the world forever. Bouncing along the ionosphere... Split the world in half like an apple. Oh well.. Thanks for the alternating current. At least we had some time to enjoy it.

ZZZAAAAPP!!!!!

PS Tesla is one of my idols and I don't want to sound as if he's to blame because he's not. An brilliant genious and wise mystic.

Re:NO JOKE (1)

B3ryllium (571199) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050098)

albeit is one word.

Re:NO JOKE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050269)

Hehe, and don't I know it. I'm english, but have been schooled in a different country (in the native language). I read a hell of a lot, all english. I used 'albeit' in an essay for an english class once. The teacher didn't believe it was an existing word, and couldn't find it in his small ass hand dictionary, so he gave me a 9 instead of a ten. Bastard :)

Re:NO JOKE (1)

CranberryKing (776846) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050321)

God. The problems with posting anything on a "news for nerds" site. Yeah I had been drinking. You are posting to correct my grammer? Read the post you fucking asshole then STFU. Thanks.

All my best,

      Your unkown older half brother.

The word... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050223)

...is "albeit", dickweed.

lots of funnies (1, Insightful)

Cave_Monster (918103) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050047)

You can tell when people don't know much about a topic or have no opinion .. the posts are dominated by jokes and funny moderated posts.

Bring on the informative and insightful posts.

Listen to HAARP (2, Informative)

medazinol (540033) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050082)

Rejoice in the sounds of HAARP presented by Art Bell, an avid HAM operator. Pretty weird sounds to be just for jamming signals. I think they're up to no good. 4 BILLION WATTS is a lot of power to be pumping into the ionosphere... http://mfile.akamai.com/5022/rm/artbell.download.a kamai.com/5022/clips/04/09/091904_what_is_haarp.rm [akamai.com]

Re:Listen to HAARP (1)

minipod2005 (931716) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050112)

Who needs US-run HAARP Mind Control when the Japanese have put it into a consumer item !!

Check this link for the next-generation of wireless remote controllers for the human being - it actually controls you while you wear the headset - a Japanese designed device that will revolutionize gaming and other applications - what are we going to be sold next, eh ? Think Mind Control, think Montauk, think of no human freewill.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9816703 [msn.com]

Re:Listen to HAARP (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050519)

see. tyhats thr problems with conspirecy people. They jump on some deatil that sounds odd. or 'too big' without knowing what the hell there talking about.
Please do some research and understand what 4 Billion Watts ERP means.

Move along folks. There is nothing to see here. (1)

Bushido Hacks (788211) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050083)

Pay no attention to the black vans coming down the street installing the mind control array.
There is no Matrix.
Go back to bed, America. You're government is is control again.

rolling blackouts (1)

jester02k (820788) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050111)

If they fire this thing are they going to black out the whole northern hemisphere? Canada will get Pissed :)

Re:rolling blackouts (1)

SlackLagg (927448) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050216)

Actually, It will probably just cause all the dolphins on the planet to beach themselves simutaniously...(Sorry couldn't find links that weren't written under the influence of tin-foil hat)

So much for getting thanked for all the fish!

HAARP is real? (1)

ketsugi (930099) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050117)

And all this time I thought HAARP was a piece of fiction created for the X-Men Legends video games...

4 Billion Watts!!! ??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050138)

From 1981 to 1983, during Ronald Reagan's years in the White House, there was a running joke based around the question of "How much energy does it take to ruin the environment?", due to Reagan's selection of James G. Watt as the Secretary of the Interior and Mr. Watt's compulsion to log, mine, drill, pave over, and to aggressively defile the US's natural resources for the almighty $$$....

Now for the Questions and Answers...

Q: How much energy does it take to ruin the environment?

A: One Watt

Q: Cost of 4 Billion Watts?

A: Priceless!!!

An interesting Article on James G. Watt can be found @:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_G._Watt/ [wikipedia.org]

Art Bell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050185)

Or whoever (Coast to Coast AM) said HAARP is to control the weather. The government wants to create hurricanes I guess, er, ones that cause billions of dollars in damage and bankrupt Louisiana (????)

Remo Williams battled this... (1)

GraveX (731024) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050194)

... in the movie-that-was-to-become-a-franchise-but-bombed, Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089901/ [imdb.com] . It had some great lines, admit it. Not as funny as The Destroyer series of books themselves, but hey, it worked (except for the dogs on the wire). No? Well, here's The Register's Google Earth: Black Helicopters entry for the real HAARP: (url:http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/14/googl e_earth_competition_results/page9.html) Still no love? Try Rense.com's various conspiracy articles on HAARP: (url:http://www.google.com/search?as_q=HAARP&num=1 0&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&l r=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_ dt=i&as_sitesearch=rense.com&as_rights=&safe=image s) Fun stuff, there!

Re:Remo Williams battled this... (1)

GraveX (731024) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050213)

Wow, I accidentally hit "submit" instead of "preview." I'd love to clean that previous comment up, but can't seem to find a way to edit your own slashdot posts. Am I missing something?

So did NetForce... (1)

Cyno01 (573917) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050469)

Good tom clancy stuff, but the tech is still too far off for it to only be 2010.:(

Now, to find an outlet big enough... (1)

busterfriendly (931720) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050208)

Well in order to power this gizmo they're gonna have to run a helluva lotta generators, so all that natural gas under the north slope should come in handy. I'd hate to see the PG&E bill.

It's not just for missile defense... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050211)

Back in around '94 I was working a satellite company and one of my friends there was working on solar panels for the Int'l space station. He got in big trouble because after he did his calculations, he sent out an email to everyone (all countries involved) saying the solar panels would have to be redesigned, because HAARP would f them up. Before that, the gov't was saying to other countries, "Don't worry about HAARP, it will only work directly overhead".. not only can it be used to affect weather, etc in any country, but it can take out satellites in orbit. The gov't got pissed at him because a bunch of countries pulled out after that. The IRS froze his assets. Scary stuff, I tells ya.

Negative Effects (1)

vanka (875029) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050219)

I personally am not into conspiracy theories, but I am concerned about the potential negative effects of this technology. From what I understand the HAARP heats the ionosphere allowing the scientists to manipulate it. My biggest concern is how this meddling impacts the global (not just local) ionosphere. Also what will be the effect on the global biosphere? The ionosphere protects the organisms of Earth from the harmful radiation of the sun; the life of planet earth is adapted to the current ionosphere, do we really want to carry out experiments on the ionosphere when we cannot even imagine how they will affect life on the planet? I am not against research or progress, but blazing blind into something that has the potential to produce huge global problems is not something I would recommend or support. If we degrade or destroy the ionosphere (without understanding the full consequences of our experiments), how will we recreate or fix it?

Re:Negative Effects (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050319)

You must be an environmentalist. They never understand exponents, at all. Four billion Watts is such a tiny fraction of the ~320 TerraWatts of power that hits the ionosphere each day from the Sun that it's insignificant. The Sun hits the Earth with 5 orders of magnitude more energy every single day.

Re:Negative Effects (2, Interesting)

Inspector Lopez (466767) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050369)

HAARP is capable of heating up a small patch of the ionosphere directly above the site. When the transmitter is turned off, the ionosphere recovers quickly. It has no ability to affect global, permanent changes in the ionosphere.

-----

Ionospheric physicists have two general attitudes about about HAARP.

(1) it's a cool facility which permits manipulation of the bottomside F region plasma physics, and provides an opportunity to study some intriguing plasma physics (3 and 4 wave interactions), as well as some thermospheric chemistry.

(2) It's yet-another-boondoggle from the Stevens/Murchowski axis, bringing pork to AK for no good reason, to support a need which no longer exists (how to communicate with subs, so that they can bomb whoever is threatening our precious bodily fluids [URL:http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057012]).

HAARP is not the only ionospheric heater on the planet. There is another one at Tromso, Norway (Ramfjordmoen), and there has been one at Arecibo, Puerto Rico. It got flooded and broke; they'd like to rebuild it. There are probably others in Russia somewhere.

---
I'm an ionospheric physicist, and I vote.

Speculation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14050283)

There is speculation that it could cause cascade failure of our ionosphere too.

What is the real Power? (4, Informative)

Dr. Null (737669) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050284)

Just to make sure that everybody is up to speed on that stated power, Let me Clarify something about antenna radiation. What was quoted was 4 billion watts ERP. The term ERP means Effective Radiated Power compared to that of a simple dipole antenna. This is a sort of measure of power density, not absolute power. Power stated as ERP is a measure of the power radiated and how narrow the radiation beam is. High ERP power is very much like looking at a narrow laser beam from a great distance. The beam looks bright, so if you think that the light is coming from a source that is shining in all directions, then it is as if the light source is shining with megawatts of power. Although the beam is bright, it is very narrow in extent, thus the real power radiated is small. For antennas, the beam width is proportional to a measure called antenna Gain. Large arrays of antennas like the HAARP antenna farm have VERY high gains, thus very directional radiation beams. IT is more likely that HAARP antenna array has a collective gain near 1000, thus the real power is more like 4 megawatts, not gigawatts (something that can be supplied by on base generators).

Megawatts of RF power is big, but not big enough to knock down ICBMs. The Idea with HAARP is to use the RF power to heat the Ionosphere in the northern latitudes where there are enormous currents induced by the Aurora. The power sloshing around in the upper Ionosphere is of the order of Terawatts. They hope to modulate these rivers of currents by locally heating small spots in the ionosphere plasma, thus radiating gigawatts of power at ultra low frequencies ( 1 to 100 Hz)... a very cool Mad scientist Idea... Very evil..

DR. Null

I've been to HAARP... (2, Interesting)

astrila (881049) | more than 8 years ago | (#14050302)

... and it's no great conspiracy. Of course it's got goey government funding, most cool research does. But you can forget about the wild nuclear weather balloons. They've actually got some good stuff going on. It's just a bunch of guys in their tshirts checking out the atmosphere with some nice antennas, accompanied by the occasional requisite military officer. Main thing I remember the guys getting at was the effect of the aurora on communications and tracking (military and otherwise). So drop the raised eyebrows.
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