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Firefox Plans Mass Marketing Drive

CowboyNeal posted more than 8 years ago | from the selling-what's-already-free dept.

Mozilla 304

Ivan Mark writes "Christopher Beard, the VP of products at Mozilla Corporation, told ZDNet UK on Monday that there is a 'strong likelihood' that Firefox 1.5, the next major version of the open source browser, will be released on 29 November. Beard said they are planning a 'big marketing push.' 'You will have real people telling you about Firefox's features-- what's cool and great,' said Beard. 'People can create the video and upload it to the Mozilla site. The video will then be reviewed and put on our Web site, with a link from their location.'"

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304 comments

Version 1.5 (-1, Troll)

matr0x_x (919985) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112491)

I have strongly believed for almost a year now that version 1.5 will be a MAJOR milestone! With all their added feature I really feel they will begin taking some significant market share.

Re:Version 1.5 (1, Funny)

WillerZ (814133) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112660)

I just hope they can maintain this momentum going forward. They need to look for cross-brand synergies in order to deliver on their key objectives.

Re:Version 1.5 (5, Funny)

16384 (21672) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112714)

At Mozilla Corporation, we understand how to unleash virtually. Think innovative, cutting-edge. Our feature set is unparalleled, but our turn-key re-sizing management and newbie-proof use is invariably considered a remarkable achievement. Think mega-cyber-killer. Our feature set is second to none, but our real-time action-items and easy configuration is frequently considered an amazing achievement. We will cultivate the capability of user communities to repurpose. Do you have a game plan to become proactive? If you morph virally, you may have to implement ultra-mega-intuitively. We think we know that it is better to streamline perfectly than to engineer micro-perfectly. If you maximize virally, you may have to engage virtually.

Mozilla Corporation has revamped the concept of web services. We pride ourselves not only on our feature set, but our newbie-proof administration and user-proof use. The micro-CAE factor is web-enabled. If you architect intra-vertically, you may have to transition super-super-macro-nano-extensibly. What does it really mean to seize "wirelessly"? If all of this may seem dumbfounding to you, that's because it is! The project management factor is interactive. Do you have a plan of action to become innovative? Do you have a plan of action to become blog-based? We always redefine customer-directed branding. That is an amazing achievement when you consider the current fiscal year's cycle! The channels factor can be summed up in one word: intuitive. We have come to know that it is better to brand interactively than to reintermediate magnetically. If all of this may seem discombobulating to you, that's because it is!

Re:Version 1.5 (1)

Walkiry (698192) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112728)

>They need to look for cross-brand synergies in order to deliver on their key objectives.

And don't forget to leverage their inhouse know-how in order to shift the paradigm to a solution focused market deployment.

And please, don't cross the streams!

Re:Version 1.5 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14112661)

Keep dreaming.. Even if it become a really great browser (better than current state), it wont get a 10% marketshare. Not even with a "massive marketing".

And no this is not trolling or flamebait, its a simple fact.

Re:Version 1.5 (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14112813)

And yet... We're up to 14% already.

Anyway. What are your reasons for saying that?

slashdot (0, Troll)

queef_latina (847562) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112492)

so you guys like lunix operating system? you guys like to talk about lunix on this web site?

Re:slashdot (0, Offtopic)

Vo0k (760020) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112589)

As soon as I get a C64, I'll install Lunix [sourceforge.net] on it, and then use it as a remote console. BTW, whenever you see a troll formatted to 60 columns width, it's very likely that it was posted from a Lunix box.

Unfortunately, no Firefox for Lunix. Sorry.

Even more dead (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14112493)

Wow! News of the day. The already dead Kazaa is now even more so.

Yeah but will it compensate for this? (0, Flamebait)

Xenna (37238) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112499)

This week I spent 15 minutes entering data on a car insurance comparison site. Just as the site (independer.nl) was finally ready to tell me the cheapest insurance for my situation...Firefox crashed.

Whenever I advise any of my friends and colleagues to switch, I hate to think what they'll do when they encounter something like this.

X.

Re:Yeah but will it compensate for this? (4, Insightful)

MrP-(at work) (839979) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112514)

I dont use firefox (I use opera), but how many times does this happen to people who use IE? I bet a lot more than firefox

Re:Yeah but will it compensate for this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14112559)

How many times has Internet Explorer crashed as well? I see less crashes with Firefox then with Internet Explorer.

Re:Yeah but will it compensate for this? (1, Insightful)

Xenna (37238) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112563)

I bet it doesn't. Website designers try to make sure that IE users don't get confronted with browser crashes because of bugs. FF still doesn't have the market position to ensure that they do the same for it.

I'm sure there are lots of bugs in IE, but everyone tries to steer around them.

It's extremely rare to find a site that works better in FF than IE, it's still too common to find the reverse situation.

X.

Re:Yeah but will it compensate for this? (5, Interesting)

spacefight (577141) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112529)

I've seen a crashing Firefox too recently, but most of the time, a plugin was directly involved while loading the page (Java, for example). I must say though, that a plugin shouldn'be able to crash Firefox itself, although it does. Couldn't firefox load the plugin somehow in an new thread which can die anytime it wants?

Mod parent up (4, Interesting)

mekkab (133181) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112554)

I hate when I try to resume firefox from sleep (i.e. it's been paged out) and it just hangs (both on Win2k, WInXP). I suspect Java is involved (or some other plugin) but its a nightmare.

I've also had the same problem with Safari; however it just NEVER came back from paging and after 10 minutes I yanked the plug from the wall (I was that pissed off!).

And I hate that Opera has issues displaying /.

/unhappy with pretty much every browser

Anecdotal (1, Interesting)

dwandy (907337) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112586)

Since we're throwing out anecdotal evidence ... none of my Firefox' have ever crashed; not under Win2k, WinXP or FC4.

Re:Anecdotal (2, Interesting)

jacksonj04 (800021) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112601)

Mine is stable, except for when an extension which modifies the rendering engine is loaded. Web Developer toolbar, GreaseMonkey, they all cause havoc when closing the browser.

And yes I have submitted a bug report.

Extensions... (2, Insightful)

xtracto (837672) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112771)

Web Developer toolbar, GreaseMonkey, they all cause havoc when closing the browser.

I used to have a lot of extensions installed on Firefox (it is my primary browser on Win2k) but I think it is what makes it unestable. Nowadays I just have adblock, and I am thinking in changing that for Privoxy.

I think for a "stripped" browser, firefox is quite big on memory (125,468K virtual size, 59,156K private) against a Mozilla.exe with 65,204K virtual size 12,216K private. What is exactly what they "stripped" ?

Re:Extensions... (1)

masklinn (823351) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112806)

What is exactly what they "stripped" ?
Strippers?

Re:Mod parent up (1)

byolinux (535260) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112598)

Use Lynx over SSH. It won't even know when you sleep the machine.

Re:Mod parent up (1, Insightful)

trogdor8667 (817114) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112846)

I love my FireFox. I really do. But I completely agree. Every browser has problems. Internet Explorer causes vulnerabilities, FireFox isn't compatible, Opera has ads, etc etc etc.

I'm a diehard FireFox fan. I have it installed on every computer I touch (except work), and use it 99% of the time. Unfortunately, since I still have to open IE to use anything related to work (Java problems with FireFox), or open IE to listen to musical content (WMP is not compatible with FireFox, yet), I still use IE sometimes. This is honestly why I'm waiting on IE7. From what I've seen, Microsoft is making sincere efforts at becoming the best again. If IE7 is better than FireFox, I'll use it. Otherwise, I'll stick with Firefox. But unfortunately, even once 1.5 comes out, and 7 comes out, we'll still have problems, and neither one will be perfect.

Re:Yeah but will it compensate for this? (4, Insightful)

dkf (304284) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112696)

I must say though, that a plugin shouldn'be able to crash Firefox itself, although it does.
Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. Plugins are inherently a potential source of trouble since they're "plugging in" extra code into the browser (which is how they support their functionality, of course) and if they've got a bug the crash can take out the browser itself. While it is possible to write plugins such that virtually all the plugin code actually runs in another process (some plugins work this way) they cannot run entirely in a separate process, and so cannot be totally isolated.

FWIW, this isn't a Firefox issue. It's just a fundamental problem with all plugin-based architectures (Windows is particularly infested with this sort of trouble, given that it's all founded on COM, which is itself the same sort of thing as a plugin arch...)

Re:Yeah but will it compensate for this? (1)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112702)

Theoretically, it's technically possible yes. In practice, it is unsafe - a crashed thread could have done quite literally anything before triggering the exception. For instance, it may have trashed the heap arena. So, swallowing the crash in one place would just cause another one somewhere else.

Now, you could run the plugin in a new thread AND a new heap. But then you may as well use a totally different process, the code involved would be mostly the same. And *that* is quite a complex undertaking, not worth the overhead when it's better to just fix the crashes.

Might be good for film students (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14112508)

This might be a real good way for film student to get some real world pratice. Might even land them a job.

Re:Might be good for film students (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14112553)

Also a good opportunity for aspiring models. "Firefox is the open-source, standards-compliant web browser for everybody. With automatic pop-up blocking and enhanced privacy features, Firefox lets you take back the Internet. Plus, look at my tits."

Re:Might be good for film students (4, Funny)

dwandy (907337) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112651)

Prizes for the best videos will be awarded at the end of the campaign.

Free copies of the browser?

...err, wait a sec...

Going to have to do better than that I'm afraid (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14112510)

The average user doesn't want "new and cool". They're happy with Internet Explorer. You can explain to them about security, and they don't listen. You can explain to them why their computer keeps being infested with spyware and trojans, and they don't listen. IE is what they know, it is the only internet they've ever known, and they'll stubbornly stick with it when someone tries to make them switch to some newfanged nerdy thing with a weird name. They don't understand computers like we do so they don't appreciate the dangers and benefits and possibilities of choice. We wouldn't become enthused about changing the injectedgyroroateraxel on our car now would we, because we don't know about cars. Neither do they know anything about computers, and the paradyme is the same.

New thinking is required to make them think trying Firefox is a good idea.

And even then, in my experience, the horrible performance hit XUL gives makes even many power users go back to IE! Personally I can't tolerate how slow FF is, and use K-Meleon instead.

Two Possibilities... (1)

ServaL (161778) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112595)

* You are his local Computer Guru: you have to clean up his spyware-infected PC every month or two. Then you can tell to use Firefox in spite of never repairing his Computer.

* You are not: You don't care about his browser choice.

Re:Going to have to do better than that I'm afraid (4, Insightful)

Andrewkov (140579) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112641)

I disagree .. The average user I talk to is sick of pop-ups, spywayre, browser hijacks and other nusances that come with IE. When I tell them about Firefox, they are interested and some even download it.

Re:Going to have to do better than that I'm afraid (1)

advocate_one (662832) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112741)

I usually have the latest Firefox, Thunderbird AND OpenOffice on the USB keydrive I keep on me... I also have a CD with XP SP1 and a CD with SP2 on it as well... most people who I'm fixing computers for have only got dialup and they balk at the ridiculously long download times involved these days for software and updates... Firefox took 30 minutes to download the other day on one box I was fixing... (I didn't have my keydrive or service pack CDs on me), 30 minutes with IE exposed... and that default configuration XP HE used to ship in of default admin privs AND no firewall was a shock to me when I forgot to check the firewall and all these SPIM things kept popping up. I'd forgotten how bad the internet really is for most windows using folk...

Re:Going to have to do better than that I'm afraid (1)

Zeussy (868062) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112845)

u'll be surprised about what people listen too. Currently im working for shell, in Australia, Promoting their new Fuel. So I go around and talk to people. They listen, ask questions about it. Some convert, some don't. And that is trying to promote something that costs more. If you say its free and better, it really gets peoples attention.

mmm...tasty (3, Funny)

Connie_Lingus (317691) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112520)

Genetically-modified viral marketing...tastes great with chicken!

For me, marketing will not "cut it!" (5, Insightful)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112523)

While I appreciate Firefox's achievements, marketing will not persuade me that much if I still have to tweak it to have sites with streaming media work properly. The popular URL http://zdnet.com.com/1606-2_2-5967129.html [com.com] comes to mind. Heck, it might not be Firefox's fault but if the other browser on the other platform works, then Firefox should work in a lay man's view.

Do not tell me I'll need a Media Player installed because I have Linux media players of all colors installed on my system.

Re:For me, marketing will not "cut it!" (1)

patcito (932676) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112555)

then maybe yo ushould switch to Konqueror from KDE 3.5 with kmplayer because it does work.

Re:For me, marketing will not "cut it!" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14112568)

Hey! Did you understand his comment? He was reffering to Firefox, and said Firefox marketing will not "cut it" for him. I guess he already uses Konqueror and [K]Mplayer. Indeed KMplayer with Konqueror works on the mentioned URL.

Re:For me, marketing will not "cut it!" (1)

rincebrain (776480) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112583)

Firefox 1.5 RC3, MPlayer plugin 3.15, works fine here.

Any more questions?

Re:For me, marketing will not "cut it!" (1)

Xeo 024 (755161) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112587)

Works perfectly fine here.

Firefox 1.5 RC3 with WMP 10.

What is the exact problem?

Re:For me, marketing will not "cut it!" (2, Funny)

B3ryllium (571199) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112824)

The problem is that he uses Linux, and doesn't know how to use Google. :)

But Marketing Does Work (5, Insightful)

dwandy (907337) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112637)

Well ... maybe you're the exception then, because there is plenty of evidence that marketing works. People are susceptible to the advertisements that they see, and people do respond to them.
If marketing didn't work, and products really had to stand on their own merits the world would be a whole lot different than it is today.

Personally I think that what the open-source community needs in general terms is more marketing. The closed-source guys get it -- they get it because they didn't win market share by writing a better product (not even better than the other closed-source guy). The closed-source companys won market share by MARKETING.
Plain and simple.
And now that they face a new competitor (open source) they respond in a time-tested manner: marketing.
It should be plain and obvious by now that the steady stream of "articles" (c|net [com.com] , zdnet [zdnet.com] etc) are just part of a marketing campaign; hidden under the umbrella of 'news'.

Re:For me, marketing will not "cut it!" (1)

Richard_J_N (631241) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112667)

Try mplayerplugin

Re:For me, marketing will not "cut it!" (2, Informative)

rsidd (6328) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112715)

Do not tell me I'll need a Media Player installed because I have Linux media players of all colors installed on my system.

Try mplayer-plugin [sf.net] (known on ubuntu as mozilla-mplayer), and the win32-codecs package. The site you point out works perfectly on my system if I choose windows media (mplayer-plugin) or realplayer (realplayer 10 for linux). As does Apple's trailers site (presently otherwise viewable only with quicktime 7) and a bunch of other stuff -- in fact, everything I've tried except some VRML stuff.

But from a purely browsing experience, I no longer think Firefox is the best open-source browser -- konqueror in kde 3.5 hasn't failed me on a site yet. The collaboration with Apple clearly helped...

Re:For me, marketing will not "cut it!" (1)

spitefulcrow (713858) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112778)

Uh, works fine with Firefox 1.0.7 and mplayerplug-in 2.85 on my Gentoo box.

Re:For me, marketing will not "cut it!" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14112791)

I just recently decided to finally get WMP version 9 movies to play in Firefox 1.5. Steps:

1. Download http://www4.mplayerhq.hu/MPlayer/releases/codecs/a ll-20050412.tar.bz2 [mplayerhq.hu]
2. Untar in /usr/lib/codecs/
3. Create a /usr/lib/win32/ symlink to /usr/lib/codecs/
4. Install the mplayer plugin. I used mplayerplugin-3.11-1mdk.i586.rpm on Mandriva 2006.0. Project page appears to be http://mplayerplug-in.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]
5. Create symlinks in the firefox/plugins/ directory for the libraries in /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/
6. Launch Firefox and test your page with an embedded video

I am able to view all videos tested on several sites so far.

Re:For me, marketing will not "cut it!" (1)

MadJo (674225) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112831)

hmm I have streaming in Firefox under Linux, though I do use an extension called MediaPlayerConnectivity.
No problems after I installed that, unless you count the hunt for the right codecs.

Firefox already has the biggest endorsement! (1)

Willy on Wheels (889645) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112524)

It is used for high speed vandalism of Wikipedia! Never under estimate the power of 200 tabs open.

Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14112541)

It's just a browser.
Ok it looks nice, but it crashes far too often for all the hype it gets.

Marketing (1, Insightful)

HawkingMattress (588824) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112549)

Am i the only one to thing that a corporation like Mozilla should put money into developpers or bounties instead of marketing campaigns ? I don't remember exactly how many cost the Times ad, but it was way too much...
Marketing is a necessary evil for those companies which must have a return on their money. Mozilla just want market shares, and would probably be better served by paying coders to make the browser better instead of hyping it.

Re:Marketing (5, Insightful)

Bungopolis (763083) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112591)

A good point, but do consider that increasing the user base must surely have a positive effect on development as well. Somebody who uses Firefox is more likely to think about contributing to it than somebody who doesn't -- whether that be simply via bug reporting, plug-in development, or even direct source contribution.

Re:Marketing (0, Troll)

Slashdoc Beta (925619) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112843)

I have to disagree .. I think Firefox is a pretty good product already and I'm not sure of any major way it could be made "better". There may be bugs to fix and standards to support, but it's probably nothing so major that it's going to win over more users. Incidently, I did give $20 for the NY Times campaign but forgot to buy the paper on that day. DOH.

Okay it's official.. (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14112552)

Big marketing push (1)

haeger (85819) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112561)

Beard said they are planning a 'big marketing push.'

...and obviously it has already started...

.haeger

Firefox, Please Tame Your Memory Hunger (5, Insightful)

ServaL (161778) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112562)

The 1.5 release has some nice new features, but there is one constant in every release: Firefox gets an augmenting chunk of memory.
After a couple of hours, it is getting some 100 Mb of memory.

And counting.

I hate it to restart with all those tabs open.

Re:Firefox, Please Tame Your Memory Hunger (1)

spacefight (577141) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112593)

Indeed. It's rather annoying, that I have to close Firefox after a whole day at work while leaving all other programs running over night.

For your tabs, there's an extension which saves your tabs (or other stuff) when you close Firefox and reopens all of them when you start it up again: SessionSaver [mozilla.org] .

Re:Firefox, Please Tame Your Memory Hunger (1)

KingOfGod (884633) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112602)

Yeah, it'd be nice if one could close Firefox, and open it again with all the previous tabs open. Something like the Windows Hibernate feature.

Or even better: Let the user configure a preset number of tabs which load automatically upon opening the first instance of a Firefox browser. If a Firefox instance is already open, the user has to click a certain button to make his preset tabs load.
This would be a great feature for me, as I always spend at least 20 seconds opening five tabs each time I start my browser. Google/ig, gmail and slashdot, among others.

Re:Firefox, Please Tame Your Memory Hunger (1)

Willy on Wheels (889645) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112627)

You can get the session saver extention [mozilla.org] which allows you to open your previous tabs.

Re:Firefox, Please Tame Your Memory Hunger (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14112634)

very easy... set the following url as you startingpage:
http://www.google.com/ [google.com] |http://slashdot.org/ [slashdot.org] |http:/ /www.tweakers.net/ [tweakers.net]
and forget the crap slashdot inserted behind the links. The clue is to sepparate the different urls with the pipe character.

Re:Firefox, Please Tame Your Memory Hunger (1)

KingOfGod (884633) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112763)

Wow, thanks a bunch. Where did you learn about this trick?

Re:Firefox, Please Tame Your Memory Hunger (4, Informative)

n0dalus (807994) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112619)

I hate it to restart with all those tabs open.

Get SessionSaver [mozilla.org] .
It will restore your open tabs on startup or after a crash. It is also great for when one of the plugins (flash, java, or maybe just Firefox itself) makes the browser slow down over time; after a lot of usage you can just close it and reopen Firefox -- with all your tabs but a fresh start on memory usage. This extension has almost entirely eliminated the need for bookmarks for me too.

Why is this acceptable? (2, Insightful)

NineNine (235196) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112676)

A 3rd party program to make Firefox work correctly? Why, exactly, do you see this as acceptable? I certainly don't.

Re:Why is this acceptable? (1)

cortana (588495) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112735)

Isn't Firefox just a third party program that makes GNU/Linux or Windows or your OS of choice work correctly? Ok so you might use Opera or some other browser... in which case, isn't $browser just a third party program that makes your computer work correctly?

Re:Firefox, Please Tame Your Memory Hunger (1)

shird (566377) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112688)

Isnt it sad though that this plugin is so popular given what most people actually use it for? Wouldn't a better solution be to have Firefox simply not crash or not chew up so much memory. I think its laughable that in the same thread about how great Firefox is, there are always people suggesting this plugin and how useful it is. Surely when considering its usefulness and widespread use you should be thinking about the faults of the browser, and not how great this plugin is.

Other browsers dont have this plugin, because they don't need it. I can use Maxthon day in day out with very very few crashes, and no unusual amounts of memory used. It has inbuilt tabs restore on restart if you want it.

Re:Firefox, Please Tame Your Memory Hunger (1)

Dan Ost (415913) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112750)

Other browsers dont have this plugin, because they don't need it

Opera has had it for as long as I can remember.

Isnt it sad though that this plugin is so popular given what most people actually use it for?

Well, I use it because I often want to come back later to a site, but don't bookmark it. By leaving the tab open, I can go back to it any time, even after restarting my laptop since SessionSaver will load it again next time I start it.

I have never had stability problems with FireFox or memory problems and yet because of the way I like to browse, I find this plugin to be essential.

Re:Firefox, Please Tame Your Memory Hunger (1)

n0dalus (807994) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112765)

Yes the problems in the browser need to be fixed.
This might not be a "solution" but until they fix it I think people should know about it. SessionSaver wasn't created for this purpose (it's actually a very useful extension, and despite what you say it still great).

Almost all of the crashes or memory leaks I've had in Firefox are related to third party proprietry extensions that Mozilla has no say over. Sure it shouldn't be able to crash the browser but they can't be stopped from leaking memory. If the Flash plugin gets memory from the system, it's up to Flash to give it back. The plugins for IE (and IE based browsers) are far more mature and have fewer bugs.

Re:Firefox, Please Tame Your Memory Hunger (1)

theatreman (931919) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112721)

Except SessionSaver won't work with v1.5 TM

Please Tame Your Memory Hungry Usage Habits? (2, Interesting)

expro (597113) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112635)

>The 1.5 release has some nice new features, but there is one constant in every >release: Firefox gets an augmenting chunk of memory.
>After a couple of hours, it is getting some 100 Mb of memory.
>
>And counting.
>
>I hate it to restart with all those tabs open.

I would not minimize thee importance of continuing heroic efforts of memory optimization, which I know they have spent a lot of work on in the past, and hope the continue to pursue fiercely, but here are some points you might consider:

1. "All those tabs" means all those pages active simultaneously. Presumably they are also not trivial pages containing only text, and the more-complex the pages, the more memory they consume.

2. What is the memory for, if not to be used by your active application that you are doing lots of things, opening lots of tabs, in. Would you rather have applications that are unable to use the memory that you have properly to your advantage in your active applications?

3. If you think the memory is really an effect of creeping memory leaks, try using the menu option "bookmark all tabs", closing Firefox, and reopening with the bookmark. This should restore all your tabs, and now go to each page and within a few minutes do something on each page to make sure they are active and see if your memory consumption is anywhere near where it was after 2 hours. If it is, then that would seem to be the memory required to support that many pages simultaneously active and is not some sort of creeping leak.

4. There are any number of tools to profile Mozilla for memory leaks and you can contribute.

5. Try a simpler browser that doesn't do nearly so much as Firefox does, but if the browser doesn't support tabs, do you really think memory consumption will be much less opening that many individual pages in seperate windows?

Re:Please Tame Your Memory Hungry Usage Habits? (1)

joostje (126457) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112685)

1. "All those tabs" means all those pages active simultaneously. Presumably they are also not trivial pages containing only text, and the more-complex the pages, the more memory they consume.
But when I close a tab, no memory seems to be freed. Have been running firefox for a couple of hours now, with loads of tabs active. I close all tabs (leaving only a blank page), and the virtual memory usage of firefox stays at 181M, with resident memory staying at 74M.

2. What is the memory for, if not to be used by your active application that you are doing lots of things, opening lots of tabs, in. Would you rather have applications that are unable to use the memory that you have properly to your advantage in your active applications?
I would rather have firefox free the memory when I close the tabs, so that other programs can use it, thank you.

3. If you think the memory is really an effect of creeping memory leaks, try using the menu option "bookmark all tabs", closing Firefox, and reopening with the bookmark.
So, with only one blank tab opened (as described above), memory usage is 181M virt + 74M res. When starting anew, memory usage is about 70M virt + 23M res. Does this prove yet there are memory leaks?

Re:Please Tame Your Memory Hungry Usage Habits? (1)

krunk4ever (856261) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112693)

One of the major problems is when you "close" the tab besides just the last page, the memory doesn't seem to be freed.

Re:Firefox, Please Tame Your Memory Hunger (1)

d99-sbr (568719) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112718)

Yup, Firefox leaks memory like a sieve, seemingly independent of platform. I guess for many home users this is not a big problem, but after a day at work with 10 tabs open the swapping needed to switch tabs can be quite annoying.

I hope this is one thing that has been looked into for 1.5.

Re:Firefox, Please Tame Your Memory Hunger (1)

mailtomomo (776971) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112760)

i'm not sure firefox is really using all that memory : i'm "playing" with a old p200 32MB of RAM, XFCE and firefox 1.0.7 (from a debian testing repository). Of course a lightweight browser like dillo work fast (there is about 800k of free memory when i've reached XFCE) but firefox is still usable, it only use swap when loading firefox itself or opening a new tab ...
and the computer has only about 75MB of swap : firefox should die on startup or use all available ressources.

Re:Firefox, Please Tame Your Memory Hunger (1)

Decker-Mage (782424) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112770)

Why? Since you are making that complaint you must be using Windows as I am while I am typing this (Windows Server 2003 Enterprise here). These are NOT the days of DOS where you have to have free memory before a program can load. Depending on buffering requirements, any program can request more memory than it may need at any moment and if another program should come along requiring memory, the operating system (we really have modern OS's now with the NT series, sort of) will tell all programs to free up whatever unused memory blocks they have laying around. BTW, even the OS itself carves out a huge chunk of RAM to act as a system buffer. Frequently around half (although you can hack this in the registry) and this is even true in the various flavors of *nix which will use almost all free pages for system buffers. Hell, in *nix you should see 90% or so of RAM allocated ALL the time.

Sorry, but you don't seem to understand how a modern operating system works let alone a modern application within that context. I suggest starting with Tannenbaum's excellent "Modern Operating System Design"; a very nice introduction to the subject.

FWIW, my system is wired up like a pinball machine and I normally run with six tabs open ranging up to a maximum of about twenty. Peak usage is about what you experience, 100 MB, and Firefox will relinquish all but about 20 MB when I fire up multiple virtual machines here. So, the memory management does work. I've seen it in action, repeatedly.

Free memory? Bah! A waste.

To do what, exactly? (3, Insightful)

lpangelrob (714473) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112569)

Okay. I'm confused.

To an end user, what is there to tout so that they can be 'more convinced' than when the 1.0 marketing first came around? Automatic updates? A better preference menu? Works more with sites than the last time around? Less bugs?

Don't get me wrong — these are good, useful features for those of us intimately familiar with browsers. But I'm not sure what marketing can say to Joe User that they didn't say the first time in order to get him to switch.

Re:To do what, exactly? (1)

rincebrain (776480) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112592)

It's faster than IE in some cases, and you don't have to call your relative every few days to clean up your system.

Re:To do what, exactly? (1)

rkcallaghan (858110) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112670)

To an end user, what is there to tout so that they can be 'more convinced' than when the 1.0 marketing first came around?

Coca-Cola hasn't changed its formula since the famous fiasco in the 80s; but that doesn't mean they need to stop promoting the product.

~Rebecca

Continuing what 1.0 started (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14112768)

What will make users "more convinced" with this marketing campaign will simply be that the users will have a better idea of the features that Firefox provides and how easy it can make your life, how extensible it is... same information as 1.0, just more prominent.

They won't be convincing people who tried 1.0 and didn't like it to use 1.5. They will be convincing those who haven't heard of 1.0 to try 1.5, and those who heard of 1.0 but didn't try it due to lack of interest to try 1.5.

Am I the only one... (2, Interesting)

msh104 (620136) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112573)

who would like to know what those "amazing new features and stuff" are?

Re:Am I the only one... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14112697)

How lazy are you? Just go to Firefox' website, sheesh. You need to be spoon fed the address? Where is your Google foo? Get a grasp man. :(

OT: Re: AC writing; Don't the images with letters remind one of the messages left behind by kidnappers in the old tv shows or movies when the crooks took random letters from newspapers or magazines to leave their messages?

Open Document Format (5, Interesting)

pubjames (468013) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112581)

How much work would it be to get Mozilla to display Open Document Format documents? Presumably it's already got 90% of what is required.

It would be a big boost for the format if anyone with Firefox could read it.

Re:Open Document Format (1)

spejsklark (913641) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112669)

Brilliant!

Yet this kind of functionality will get classed as bloatware and live a sad life in the big sea of extensions available.

Re:Open Document Format (2, Funny)

cortana (588495) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112756)

No offence, but your comment reminded me of this Dilbert strip [cafepress.com] . :)

Having said that, someone could write a plugin to display OpenDocument documents, just like any other browser plugin, although I would get annoyed that every time I clicked on a link to an OpenDocument file, I had to wait for OpenOffice.org to load...

A Chance for More Mischief (2, Funny)

dancingmad (128588) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112600)

'People can create the video and upload it to the Mozilla site. The video will then be reviewed and put on our Web site, with a link from their location.'"

Expose + Goatse, here I come!

Not exactly great marketing (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112607)

So, in order for the virtues of Firefox to be proclaimed to would-be switchers, they have to go to the website and download the commercial themselves? I doubt that's going to be particularly effective, as the limiting step is the same old word-of-mouth used to get people to look at the Firefox site in the first place.

Firemonger (5, Informative)

asciimonster (305672) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112630)

Would showing of the Firemonger CD [firemonger.org] also qualify for this competition?

The Firemonger project is also boasting a lot of new features [firemonger.org] when it releases its FireFox & Thunderbird bundle. Just have a look at the cool [firemonger.org] new [firemonger.org] screenshots [firemonger.org] .

Re:Firemonger (1)

hotdiggitydawg (881316) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112689)

Obvious marketing miss... if "Firemonger" is essentially a starter-pack for Firefox, why not call it "Firestarter"? You even get the added bonus of soundtrack by The Prodigy for your viral marketing videos...

firestarter... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14112815)

...is a firewall gui front end for iptables and is quite popular.

Re:Firemonger (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112820)

> if "Firemonger" is essentially a starter-pack for Firefox, why not call it "Firestarter"? You
> even get the added bonus of soundtrack by The Prodigy for your viral marketing videos...

That has the obvious downside of only appealing to spotty 14 year old boys, however.

Go Firefox (3, Interesting)

aaronmarks (873211) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112631)

I've been a strong believe in Firefox since day 1 and I'm really glad to see that the browser is constantly making headway. The general rule of thumb is really that if a page isn't showing up right in Firefox, then it was either made by Microsoft or it just wasn't made right (almost the same thing). Firefox has always been rock solid for me and I love it's features. I also think that it's really important that the browser is made cross-platform; what good is the web anyways if everyone can't see it the way it was intended to be seen???

I'm going to go put on my Firefox t-shirt now that my girlfriend got me for my birthday last year ;-)

--
Aaron Marks [aaronmarks.com]

Some extensions don't work with 1.5 (1)

Secrity (742221) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112649)

How are non-tech people going to have confidence in Firefox when it breaks their favorite extensions? After upgrading, one must do a daily extension update until all of the extensions will work again.

Re:Some extensions don't work with 1.5 (2, Informative)

Dehumanizer (31435) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112711)

1.5 isn't out yet - you, like me, are using an RC. Many extension authors are lazy and will only update their extensions after 1.5 is *really* released.

Awwww... (1)

richie2000 (159732) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112655)

Firefox 1.5 (...) will be released on 29 November.

Aw, on my birthday. They shouldn't have... Thanks, guys! :-)

Mozilla can advertise all they want (-1)

kahrytan (913147) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112746)

... but I won't install a spyware infecting*, memory hogging, crashing browser into my machines. I only type the facts so no need to whine.

I'll stick to Opera 8.51.

*Yes, Firefox has been known to allow spyware to infect a pc.

Re:Mozilla can advertise all they want (1)

sl8r (104278) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112767)

Yes, Firefox has been known to allow spyware to infect a pc.

So, are you going to provide us with some proof, or are you just gonna sit there with that smug look on your face?

Re:Mozilla can advertise all they want (1)

MrP-(at work) (839979) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112775)

i dont know about the spyware claims but i also prefer Opera (been using it as my primary browser since 6.0, and was using it as a secondary since 3.x)

The adblocker does it (3, Informative)

Nice2Cats (557310) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112759)

The main reason I use Firefox on my Mac over the otherwise pretty good Safari is the adblocker plugin. Not having crap blink in my face on every second site, not having a little bit of text squeezed in between fat columns of ads for stuff I simply don't want, let alone need, has really changed my attitude towards the web in general. There is no way I am ever going back to a browser that doesn't support this feature. If you are thinking about testing Firefox -- get that plugin when you do.

Re:The adblocker does it (2, Informative)

mikeplokta (223052) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112789)

Try SafariBlock [machacking.net] , which aims to replicate AdBlock in Safari.

Re:The adblocker does it (1)

Rogue Pat (749565) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112808)

I'm using PithHelmet with Safari.

Re:The adblocker does it (1)

Vo0k (760020) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112844)

No, no, no. That won't pass. It's like a spyware "spyware detector" program that offers you to remove itself for a fee. "Get Firefox with Adblock, you won't be annoyed with ads like this one." This is just wrong.

Too much hype (1, Insightful)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112800)

Am I the only one getting tired of all the hypoe surrounding browsers?
"New and cool"? I don't think so. Theres little thats "cool" (unless you've
just returned from a 15 year trip to another planet and have just found out
about the WWW) about a web browser , which is little more than an HTML
renderer with extra bits. Is a new RSS or HTML or Style sheet engine
cool? Yaaaaawwwwn. Hardly. A true 3D holographic browser with touch
interface , now THAT would be cool , but a few new features and bug fixes
on a web browser? Errr , no.

Typical conversation (1)

slavemowgli (585321) | more than 8 years ago | (#14112821)

You will have real people telling you about Firefox's features-- what's cool and great [...]

Maybe it's just me, but that kinda makes me think of dialogues like the following:

Phone: *ring*
User: *picks up the phone* Hello?
Marketing drone: Hi! Have you ever thought about switching to Firefox?

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