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Driving Away Teens With High Frequency Noise

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 8 years ago | from the get-off-my-lawn dept.

Technology 1035

ars writes "The New York Times is reporting on a device called the Mosquito invented by Howard Stapleton designed to drive teens away by emitting a high frequency noise at 75db. Apparently most older people can not hear the sounds, but teens can not stand it. Reports are that it works quite well, but some older people can hear it too. He found the prefect irritating sound by experimenting on his children."

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FP (5, Funny)

ZX81 (105194) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144249)

Everyone driven away?

Hey, man! (5, Funny)

Philip K Dickhead (906971) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144289)

What's the buzz?

Re:Hey, man! (4, Funny)

BandwidthHog (257320) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144355)

Tell me what’s a happening!

Re:FP (1)

ZX81 (105194) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144375)

How is that offtopic? Did you even RTFA?

One for the elderly (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14144410)

If only we could come up with a noise frequency to ATTRACT the elderly. Then we could lead a merry dance of baby boomers straight off a cliff into the ocean and watch them all drown :)

lol (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14144250)

goatse

What's was wrong with... (5, Funny)

Dance_Dance_Karnov (793804) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144255)

sitting on the porch yelling and shaking a cane?

Re:What's was wrong with... (5, Funny)

DataPath (1111) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144278)

Get off my lawn!

Re:What's was wrong with... (5, Funny)

dethl (626353) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144334)

Calling them "whippersnappers" just doesn't do it anymore.

Re:What's was wrong with... (1, Funny)

KeyboardMonkey (744594) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144381)

What?

Re:What's was wrong with... (5, Funny)

st0rmshad0w (412661) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144437)

You might be violating my grandfather's patent.

it's been around for years... (2, Insightful)

theheff (894014) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144256)

It's called 60's music.

Right (2, Insightful)

StarKruzr (74642) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144285)

Because today's teenagers hate 60's music [beatles.com] .

g0t d3af? (3, Insightful)

ZX81 (105194) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144257)

Isn't this just going to make the kids as deaf as the adults?

Re:g0t d3af? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14144320)

wha??

Re:g0t d3af? (2, Informative)

toastydeath (758912) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144346)

75 db isn't going to make anyone deaf. Personally having owned a 140 db subwoofer system (metered) in my vehicle, I can attest that 75 db is not going to do any particular damage to my ears past what I've already done.

Can you hear me... Can you hear me now... (2, Insightful)

segment (695309) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144386)

Severe to profound losses range from PTAs of 75 dB and greater. At this level, hearing aids provide limited benefit and consideration of cochlear implants is generally given. Statistics about Hearing Disorders, Ear Infections, and Deafness [nih.gov]

Re:g0t d3af? (1)

ZX81 (105194) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144393)

The difference is between peak and sustained noise.

When I was in USA as a kid, I was punk and hung out with a few people in a square in Santa Rosa.

The local authorites believed we were an eyesore and so tried to get rid of us by playing classical music from the trees. Obviously it didn't work.

But any sustained noise at high frequency can't be good for you...(speaking as a 28 year old who still does Sound Engineering) :)

Re:g0t d3af? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14144399)

Mummy rang for you.
She wants her Honda Civic back, and if you could take that thing on the back (a wing?) off, that would be good too.
People laugh at her when she's driving it.

Yet another way for parents to avoid... (3, Insightful)

The Lost Supertone (754279) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144258)

Yet another way for parents to avoid spending time with their kids. Seriously why the heck would anyone come up with this sort of thing? As someone who works with teenagers a lot already, I have to say I'm a bit annoyed. Tons of the kids I work with through our church have parents who I swear can't be bothered to give their kids the nurture and self respect they need. Instead they just buy them things. At least an iPod nano to an unloved kid makes the kid cool at school. This'll just drive them to try more medications designed for chemical imbalances that won't fix depression brought on by these sorts of situations.

HELLO? RTFA!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14144341)

A good idea is to RTFA before you post (although I should know better then to tell someone to RTFA on slashdot). Give it a try sometime.

Re:Yet another way for parents to avoid... (4, Insightful)

blastwave (757518) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144352)

Personally I don't get it. I can achieve the same effect by simply asking them to take out the trash.

Honestly, I was just over at the server room with my teenage step-son and he is totally cool. He washed the white board, helped me install some servers, then I let him drive the Jeep around the parking lot and even go off road. I don't understand all his stuff and he doesn't understand all mine but we have fun together and thats all the counts. Hey, we even played HALO for an hour after school.

A high freqency buzz to drive away teens? Something seriously wrong with this invention. Yet another examply of soulless empty technology. I am happy that God watches over my family and both my teenage kids are a gift. I would never drive them away. If we keep and hold the communication channel open then we will never have them feel that they can't talk and we can't listen.

Dennis Clarke
Director Blastwave.org
http://www.blastwave.org/ [blastwave.org]

Re:Yet another way for parents to avoid... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14144363)

Kudos on getting some dumb shits to mod you up. Amazing.

Re:Yet another way for parents to avoid... (4, Informative)

Draveed (664730) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144365)

What are you talking about? This is just a device to stop teenagers from loitering. No one said anything about parents using this to get rid of their own kids.

Re:Yet another way for parents to avoid... (1)

jcostantino (585892) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144370)

Huh? This device is designed to stop kids from loitering.. maybe to send them home?


I would put up with the noise this thing generates (I'm 29 but my hearing is still well above average) to walk in to a 7-11, buy my stuff and leave without having to worry about the intentions (if any) of the people hanging around out front.

Re:Yet another way for parents to avoid... (1)

Joe Random (777564) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144417)

Did you actually RTFA? This is to help prevent teenagers from loitering in front of stores and harassing the other customers. Apparantly "...surly teenagers used to plant themselves on the railings just outside the door, smoking, drinking, shouting rude words at customers and making regular disruptive forays inside."

The owner actually had originally planned to pipe loud classical music outside for the same effect, but the inventor of the device in question supplied some for free.

How you got from that to poor parenting I can't even begin to guess.

I need this for my stores! (5, Funny)

dada21 (163177) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144261)

We sell skateboards and paintball shit. We aren't in the mall.

1. Hide a few dozen of these in the mall shops
2. ???
3. Profit!!!

Re:I need this for my stores! (0)

RedWizzard (192002) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144323)

We sell skateboards and paintball shit.
Why would you want to drive away your target audience?

Re:I need this for my stores! (1)

way2trivial (601132) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144357)

re-read GP post.. he wants to drive biz OUT of the mall, therefore INTO his store (not at the mall)

Re:I need this for my stores! (1)

RedWizzard (192002) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144419)

Oh, yes. I just tune out those stupid "...profit" jokes these days.

Re:I need this for my stores! (3, Funny)

dogwelder99 (896835) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144324)

I'll look you up when my new product is ready for market - a voice disguiser that lets kids talk shit in front of their parents at 16 KHz.

TVs (1)

ClamIAm (926466) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144262)

This noise must be in the same range that TVs make when turned on. But I'll be 20 in a few months, does that mean I won't hear it anymore?

Re:TVs (1)

dada21 (163177) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144297)

I'm 31 and I have ultra high frequency sensitivity still. I wear custom ear plugs whenever there is a loud ambient noise and the lady never did and she can never hear half of what I can.

Best $150 ever spent.

Re:TVs (1)

ilovepolymorphism (642188) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144316)

Nope.... I'm 20 and I still hear the annoying TV sound... and no I'm not just talking about the sound it supposed to make...

Re:TVs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14144333)

Does anyone else find the sound is worse when there's only one colour on the screen? Like if the TV's muted I can hear it, but as I'm switching channels if I pass over one that makes the TV go blue (no signal on that channel) the sound seems to get unbearably louder.

Re:TVs (1)

magadass (234992) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144403)

Actually I hear this on CRT's at work all the time and if you actually pay attention to it, it can get quit annoying but for the most part I let it be a passive part of my hearing much like road noise in a car, its there but who cares?

I have LCD's at home and a DLP for my TV now and I no longer hear those annoying as hell high pitched whines, well except from those power adaptors for electronic devices...Some of those can be irritating if you sit next to one for a while in a quiet room eventually you will start to get aggrevated by that noise...

But something on topic, seriously I dont think an irritating noise would cause a human being to not go into a store. I mean irritating smell and irritating lighting dont stop people from going to bars do they?

Re:TVs (1)

ClamIAm (926466) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144439)

I've noticed this while muting TVs during commercials. I'll be looking at my magazine (or whatever) and notice the noise changing a bit if the color goes from mostly dark to bright white or something. I don't really know what's the "worst" color, but yeah, I've noticed a similar effect.

Re:TVs (0)

Octorian (14086) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144350)

While I've always been able to hear that high-frequency noise made by TVs, that reminds me of something... Back when I lived with my parents, it never used to bother me that much. Then I went off to college, and spent months at a time never being exposed to anything closely but computer monitors (which have higher-quality CRTs that don't emit the same sort of whine). All of the sudden, when I went home on break, the TV noise became unbearable and excessively annoying like it never had before.

Re:TVs (1)

ZX81 (105194) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144423)

LOL, I once went to a television manufacturing plant in Wales and asked about the noise. He said it could happen from old TVs with bad transformers.

I asked why I could hear it from the TVs in front of me and he said I couldn't :D

Re:TVs (1)

NoMoreNicksLeft (516230) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144401)

Glad I'm not the only one who can here this. I can tell if a muted television is on or off from several rooms away, but no one believes me.

Oh, and I'm 31. So no, you're probably going to hear it awhile.

Re:TVs (1)

LadyVirharper (804893) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144444)

I'm 22, and I can hear the annoying high-pitched noise of cheap TVs.

It's annoying when you're going TV shopping; I was looking for a small, cheap TV so I could catch Battlestar Galactica (otherwise I don't watch TV) and the SOUND in one electronics department drove me batty, and gave me a headache.

Must be the same frequency this device is working on.

So... (1)

Psionicist (561330) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144264)

The New York Times is reporting on a device called the Mosquito invented by Howard Stapleton designed to drive teens away by emitting a high frequency noise at 75db.

So... He invented Jazz music.

I hope it doesn't get widely deployed (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14144265)

Teens have rights too, you can't discriminate on the basis of age.

Re:I hope it doesn't get widely deployed (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14144322)

Not according to politicians.

Re:I hope it doesn't get widely deployed (5, Insightful)

raoul666 (870362) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144331)

Teens have rights too, you can't discriminate on the basis of age.

You must be new here. And by here, I mean society. It's one of the few things that not only are people still discriminated against for, it's one that no one complains about, or really even thinks about.

Re:I hope it doesn't get widely deployed (3, Funny)

Godman (767682) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144407)

Oh, you must be kidding me! I didn't sign up for that...

Can I revoke my membership to society?

Re:I hope it doesn't get widely deployed (5, Funny)

Tore S B (711705) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144432)

As a teen, having gone through very frustrating and annoying shit just because of my age, I'd love to know why the fuck this was modded funny.

This *is* discrimination. If the guys are annoying, call the cops on the fuckers. Don't take it out on everyone who just happen to be the same age. It's no better than racism.

Protractor holes (5, Funny)

Ossifer (703813) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144266)

We used to rebel in the 5th grade by blowing air through the small holes in our proctractors. Teacher nearing retirement had no clue. Sometimes the din was so loud that we couldn't hear teacher clearly...

Proper use. (4, Insightful)

Irvu (248207) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144268)

In another article this would be called a "nonlethal weapon". Do we really want a world where people deploy such things to drive select non customers away? Legal or not I find the idea of such a system being used not only insulting but sad.

Re:Proper use. (0, Troll)

loucura! (247834) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144356)

Do we really want a world where people deploy such things to drive select non customers away?

Yes, first they have the freedom to associate with whomever they wish. Second, they have the right to defend their property as they see fit, would you rather they put rock-salt in the arse of the offending hoodlums?

I doubt this works (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14144272)

I actually have tried high-frequncy sound "bombs" for insect and rodent control before. Ramsey Electronics sells a kit that does similarly (and it's better-buiult than my old hacks).

Various waveforms at frequencies from 19 kHz to 26 kHz were tried, along with changing waveforms and amplitudes, plus some minor modulation. I used both conventional drivers as well as piezo units. Only limited results were had.

One thing that DID work (well, sort of) was a flyback transformer from a defunct Sony TV set. That annoyed women, but not men. Weird.

Maybe I was doing something wrong, but, I doubt it. I just think the whole 'dog whistle' idea is overblown as to utility, and it's not like I wasn't trying.

Re:I doubt this works (3, Informative)

segment (695309) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144359)

Maybe you should have read more then dabbled:

  • Landström reports that exposure to infrasound (6-16 Hz) has an impact on fatigue and wakefulness even with exposures as short as 20 minutes. [1] However, Slarve and Johnson report no long-term impact from exposure to infrasound at levels up to 144 dB. [2]

    1. U. Landström, "Noise and Fatigue in Working Environments," Environment International 16, 471476 (1990).
    2. R. N. Slarve and D. L. Johnson, "Human Whole-Body Exposure to Infrasound," Aviation, Space, and Environmental Medicine, 428431 (April 1975)

I'm unsure about the age significances though. Elder people tend to lose their hearing quite frequently. Maybe they can pick up other frequencies. Who knows maybe Grandpa did pick up Aliens' conversations.

Better Idea... (1)

Elitist_Phoenix (808424) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144276)

Why doesn't he just turn Tony Blair up full blast? That would also work for anyone under 30.

Re:Better Idea... (1)

Propaganda13 (312548) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144448)

Used to do this at parties in college. When you wanted all the strangers to leave, you just started playing some grindcore music real loud. Works a lot faster than saying "You don't have to go home but you can't stay here"

Legality? (1)

Giometrix (932993) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144283)

I don't see how a product like this could ever be sold legally. Talk about discriminatory!

LOL (1)

tanveer1979 (530624) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144286)

Now thats what you call an original Idea. Maybe the police start using it a usual teen street fight hangouts. But It reminds of that Arthur C clarke novel where they invented a device which would disable all guns within the effective radius. Soon that device is used to kill people based on their DNA. What happens if somebody uses a 10 time more powerful device at a teen concert. No doubt the band music would be loud, but having such a device would cause a literal eardrum carnage.

Re:LOL (1)

Wizarth (785742) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144347)

Your talking about eardrum carnage, at a teen concert?

Why would they bother using a device, just use the concerts sound system to carry the sound. The device itself isn't anything special.

No. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14144373)

Decibel is a logarithmic measure of intensity. That is to say, the difference between 75 and 85 dB is a factor of 10. Since most rock concerts play at around 125 dB, I don't know if anyone would notice.

I beg to differ (3, Funny)

IAstudent (919232) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144287)

The teen population today is growing up with the voices of "pop music". If they can survive that drivel and keep it on the Top 20, what chances does this gadget have?

Wonderful (2, Insightful)

syousef (465911) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144290)

Treat teens with about the same respect you reserve for a mosquito and wonder why they go around shooting each other, or killing themselves. Oh yeah it's the violence in video games and the availability of porn on the internet that causes this. Nothing to do with the increasing contempt modern society shows for both the very young and the very old.

Idiot.

Re:Wonderful (4, Informative)

Jjeff1 (636051) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144445)

Problem is, kids AREN'T going around shooting and killing each other, at least not in the US.
The FBI reports [usdoj.gov] that crime overall has gone down steadily since 1994. The most recent stats show that 2004 had the lowest level of violence in over 3 decades.

I wish I could find the specific graphs on this, but here's the raw data [fbi.gov] for each year... and if you take the time to look at it, it also shows that juvenile crime specifically is at it's lowest level in over a decade.

Next best thing will be... (1)

segment (695309) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144291)

"military's intent to use every possible thought-influencing technology. This technology is largely classified but there are leaks, like this article. We involuntary test subjects can tell you from first hand experience that far more invasive devices now exist." Welcome to ... Silent Sound [infiltrated.net] ...

No Effect (1)

eosp (885380) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144292)

Teens are used to teachers. When used in terms of climate, this is called "acclimati[z|s]ation".

Great Scott! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14144294)

1.21 gigahertz!

prefect. just prefect (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14144299)

He found the prefect irritating sound by experimenting on his children.

Too bad ScuttleMonkey and arse (oops, ars) couldn't find the time to proofread their emission (oops, submission).

It's true (1)

caese (925123) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144303)

when I was a kid we had a similar device up at the farm that apparently kept raccoons and squirrels away, my grandparents were avid birdwatchers. I cant vouch for it actually working to that effect.

None the less, the noise was not noticeable to the older people but annoyed the hell out of me and the other children, it's kinda like leaving a tv on mute in a really quite room, but way more intense.

OUTGOING (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14144304)

HELLO WORLD
16491 16491
HELLO WORLD
45500 45500 58736 58736 83113 83113 63228 63228 24143 24143
63684 63684 33322 33322 98341 98341 28562 28562 23658 23658
38667 38667 82268 82268 40076 40076 20675 20675 19709 19709
21489 21489 61784 61784 70268 70268 15745 15745 41487 41487
20535 20535 67031 67031 06108 06108 66637 66637 11827 11827
05729 05729 06724 06724 78581 78581 61855 61855 22558 22558
33079 33079 80157 80157 34840 34840 77058 77058 51843 51843
69724 69724
K-BYE

WTF (1)

eklitzke (873155) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144306)

Every once in a while you run across a Slashdot story that just makes you wonder WTF?!?! This, ladies (?) and gentleman, is one of those stories.

Hahaha!! (3, Informative)

CupBeEmpty (720791) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144308)

This is EXACTLY what I pulled in my undergraduate 'Modern Electronics' class. When we used small speakers I could adjust the frequency to a positively epilepsy inducing sound (especially if you ran the speakers on square wave functions with slight frequency scanning) that caused most of my classmates considerable discomfort but my professor (a fan of loud and live rock shows) could hear nothing. The best part is that he was proud that he was "immune" even though it indicates the beginnings of hearing loss.

Corey Doctorow Already Did This (1)

FireWyrm (197900) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144310)

In chapter 3 of his story "Themepunks."
Link to chapter 3 of themepunks on Salon.com [salon.com]

Unfortunately, you have to watch ads to read salon.

Biological or Environmental? (3, Interesting)

ajax0187 (615355) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144317)

Does this really work because they're teenagers, or because they just haven't lost the upper levels of their hearing? I remember reading that we can (originally) hear up to 30,000 Hz, but as we get exposed to loud noises, we gradually get more and more deaf as our ears lose more and more of their capability. Something like the first concert you go to cuts out the upper 2000 Hz of your hearing. Which brings up an interesting point - will this work on teens exposed to so much loud noises (music, lots of concerts, construction, trains, etc.) that it just won't work on them?

By the way, a great role model for fathers everywhere:

"Okay honey, how much does this hurt?"

BZZZZT!!!!

"Ah, turn it off, turn it off!!"

"In a second honey. Daddy has to hurt you to show how much he loves you. Now, how about this?"

BZZZZT!!!

"AHHHHHH!"

Re:Biological or Environmental? (3, Informative)

jhines (82154) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144442)

A little of both. The horizontal scanning frequency is 15,750 Hz (I think) and some but not all teens could hear it. I could, and going into a TV store would drive me nuts. Time and lots of rock and roll has cured that problem, and I no longer hear the TV sound.

So yes sound wave could be tuned so that some, but not all could hear it. You might annoy some adults, and be ignored by other kids.

What's next (1)

goombah99 (560566) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144328)

Grating's in front keep out the old people?

people old enough may recall the unfortunate IBM dumb-terminals that had a 15Khz flyback transformer. The over-30 crowd could no hear it, but I couldn't stand to be in the same room with one. Some early color TVs were the same way.

But of course you could do this with your laptop. Might be handy at airports to keep those unwashed roaming children from sliming your precious personal space. Or for torturing the whiney brat kicking your chair in the next row of the air plane.

Hey maybe you could use this during exams in class set it at a sub audible level and sub consciously increase everyones anxiety level three notches. Supposedly church pipe organs have some stops to produce the same effect in the worshippers. Be sure to wear your noise canceling head phones tuned to that frequency.

Re:What's next (1)

MayonakaHa (562348) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144406)

Early color TVs? Try a lot of current TVs too. Don't forget CRT monitors. Some days it was hell working in the electronics department. If the customers weren't making enough background noise or it was a slow day the sound would nearly drive me nuts. I'm over 20 now but I can still hear most of this stuff because I'm not a big fan of loude music or loud noises.

Whats next? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14144332)

Whats next? Electric child prods? Shock collars?

useless (3, Insightful)

Lehk228 (705449) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144337)

This will have no effect on the metal heads and punk fans who go to loud shows who also happen to be the people buying it want to drive away anyways.

erm... (1)

pmike_bauer (763028) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144338)

There are a lot of radio stations that could have the exact same effect: oldies, big band, country... :-)

Reminds me of a guy I knew... (5, Funny)

ChePibe (882378) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144340)

This reminds me of a guy I knew once who kept an opera CD in his far-too-tricked-out-for-an-old-man car stereo. Only he optimized his stereo for treble rather than bass.

Everytime a low-rider came next to his car at a stop light thumping away, he opened his windows and cranked some good ol' Italian opera out to screw with them. He told me he never could quite drown them out, but quite a few did turn down their stereos to try and figure out what the crazy old man next to them was doing...

Horrible and Disgusting (2, Interesting)

JustinCEO (932191) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144342)

This is a morally repugnant and disgusting device. Think of the implications of this device: an entire age group of people, both good and bad, ambitious and aimless, hardworking and lazy, are, irrespective of who they are, and entirely based on their age, are being treated like animals or pests to be driven away. Not to mention it apparently doesn't work very well according to the summary. I can only wonder if technology had advanced in our society a little faster than our morality did if hucksters would have been marketing "Negro Repellent Devices" to the discriminating and gullible bastards of an earlier era. Shameful.

this country is strange (4, Insightful)

hansoloaf (668609) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144343)

Why is this country so anti-teenager? We got the "coveted marketing demographics" of late teen to young adult that the tv networks and pretty much a lot of companies go for. Yet as a group, teenagers sure are very ostracized, looked down, and picked on. I'm sure there are some bad seeds but for the vast majority, I'm sure there are good kids. You got all these anti-cruising laws, school crackdowns, and now this. Shouldn't we be cherishing and nuturing them instead? I'm sure the Army would like to use this device to get them shepherded to the nearest recuriting office.

TTC (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14144344)

In Toronto, we used to have a problem with teen gangs hanging around the Kennedy subway station. The solution to this? The TTC started playing classical music over the loudspeakers. Pow, the gangs were gone, plus it was actually quite nice for those of us that enjoy classical music.

The only thing to watch out for now would be gangs that listen to classical music. Care for a bit of Ludwig Van?

Small mammal repellent (1)

AdamTrace (255409) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144348)

My parents have a noise emitting device under their deck to keep away skunks and possums. It also keeps me away, because I can hear the very high pitched whine and they can't.

I'm 30 years old, so hardly a teenager. Maybe I just have good hearing?

No problem (2, Interesting)

JanneM (7445) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144349)

Just shoplift some earplugs.

Seriously, this shopkeeper exhibits a view of people that would make me very hesitant to be a customer at his store. He is saying, effectively, that "My interest in you is in your money and nothing else. If you spend money, I love you. If not, you're a creep and should not be in my sight." And, really, that is not the kind of person I'd like to be in any kind of relationship with, be it business of personal.

Hey you kids... (1)

geekee (591277) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144351)

Why not just build a device that says "Hey you kids, get the hell off of my lawn!"

Yay for science, age and guile! (1)

SysKoll (48967) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144354)

At last, something for the old geezer geek!

Thank you, thank you, Mr. Stapleton! Now these damn kids will finally get off my lawn! And I can at last get even with these young idiots playing rap music at a windows-rattling volume.

Forget mad science, Stapleton perfected crusty science!

I have a new hero.

This is not to discriminate against teens... (0)

mybadluck22 (750599) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144367)

The purpose of this is to repel people who are actually causing trouble. A store for teens would obviously not use one of these. The article mentions a story where teens loiter outside and intimidate customers. It says that teens can still go in the store unbothered, but do not tend to stay nearby for more than a few minutes.

By the way, this is not "discriminating" at all. Also, I can not see how this breaks any laws. What sort of crazy law would it be? "Everyone must be able to hear every sound that someone decides to broadcast" ? Some adults can hear the sound, some teens cannot. What is the issue?

Disgusting (1)

Hosiah (849792) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144368)

What kind of sick, evil cur do you have to be to even concieve of such a thing? How do they know this isn't causing long-term hearing damage? How do they know that the range is only in the area defined...what if some people can hear it miles away? And my hearing for high-frequency noises has lasted to my mid-30s...what if I can hear it, too? And I had a friend one time who was deaf, but his hearing aide sometimes translates mere whistles to a physically painful noise - what would this do to hearing aide users? And why discriminate against young people - maybe these kids should get smart and send round a bunch of aged street winos to hang out in front of the store? What about pets, how does it affect them? And how long until the kids wise up and buy a $2 pair of earplugs?

Now, you'd think I'd identified all the ways this was wrong. But no, the corker is he used his own kids as lab rats for this! Why does this sick bastard still have custody of them?

Re:Disgusting (1)

mybadluck22 (750599) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144443)

"How do they know that the range is only in the area defined...what if some people can hear it miles away?"

Sound does not work like this, especially in the daytime.

"And my hearing for high-frequency noises has lasted to my mid-30s...what if I can hear it, too?"

You will be forced to deal with mild annoyance! Hurry up and get your shopping overwith and don't hang around the front of these stores!

"And I had a friend one time who was deaf, but his hearing aide sometimes translates mere whistles to a physically painful noise - what would this do to hearing aide users?" What frequency is the speaker on the hearing aide even capable of producing? Regardless, if you can't hear it now, you likely won't hear it then.

"And why discriminate against young people - maybe these kids should get smart and send round a bunch of aged street winos to hang out in front of the store? What about pets, how does it affect them?"

The teenage hooligans, winos, and pets are in cahoots. Many stores do not even allow pets, and why would winos just decided to hang around a store because some teens told them to? What difference does it make?

"And how long until the kids wise up and buy a $2 pair of earplugs?"

I don't think that most people would really sit around with earplugs just to be infront of a store. Even if you had a place you liked to hang out, would you seriously sit there with earplugs screaming to your friends for more than five minutes?

"Now, you'd think I'd identified all the ways this was wrong. But no, the corker is he used his own kids as lab rats for this! Why does this sick bastard still have custody of them?"

I don't think it's illegal to bother your children with annoying noises, as long as you do not cause them physical harm or pain. The point of this is that it is annoying, but does not cause pain.

Terrible idea (2, Informative)

Raindance (680694) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144377)

I think this is a terrible idea for any number of reasons, one being that supposedly "inaudible" noises effect people subconsciously. Even if the people involved don't report hearing anything.

Relevant link with EEG results-
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/spectra.h tm [caltech.edu]

tool to cheat with (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14144382)

This would be a great way to cheat in a college exam, 1 beep for a two for b and so on or morse code that only the students could hear! Try bellcurving that!!!

This is wrong! They should attract them! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14144388)

With some of that pseudo punk that's all the rage on MTV and perhaps some pleasing purple neon undercarriage and krunk dubs and then zap them with an electric grid.

33hz orgasm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14144392)

75db may make em go away, but 33hz brings the ladies back [blogspot.com] . Even more links here [google.com] .

Alternative Hypothesis (4, Funny)

BandwidthHog (257320) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144396)

When I was a kid I built a variable frequency tone generator. Once I got it up above the range I could hear, I could make my dog go batshit. Not as in running around yelping, but scratching and chewing himself with a passion. Turns out it was the fleas that were going batshit; against his white fur, I could clearly see them start jumping incessanctly when I hit that certain range.

So maybe his kids are just nasty.

downtown here (1)

WormholeFiend (674934) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144402)

near a big bus stop area, next to a mall, where lots of homeless and/or punk kids like to congregate and piss/shit/sell drugs/panhandle, the stores play classical music on their storefront.

It didnt actually work, until some geniuses tried to break the speakers, somewhat unsuccessfully, resulting in classical music heavily distorted by feedback noise, which then really drove away pretty much everyone within hearshot.

Couldn't have been good for business.

Last time I was around the area, they fixed the speakers, and now the classical music plays normally, and the punks are back

I ran across something like this once (1)

Monkeyman334 (205694) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144409)

I remember walking around the house while my mom was in the living room. I walked into the living room and heared a constant and really high pitch noise. It was loud enough that it was almost hurt my ears. So I asked my mom what it is and she said "what? I can't hear anything." So I looked around the house and tracked it down a gym bag that was in the kitchen. I picked it up and brought it to her so she could hear it, being right next to it really did hurt my ears. So she puts it right next to ear and just shrugs. We open the bag to find a camera with a charged flash.

I thought it was funny because the volume was really loud but because of the frequency she couldn't hear it at all.

Totally Absurd (3, Insightful)

Darkshot (897143) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144413)

This is ridiculus. They talk about using something like this to drive away 'bad teens' who hang around their store. Did they ever stop to consider that not all teens are bad, and what if some young person is actually going to their store to buy something legitimately. They need to stop stereotyping and realize most teens arent like that. I'm 17 and I do nothing of the sort. They are not only driving away these occassional trouble makers but also some of their own customers...

Let's face it, this is revenge (2, Funny)

TheNucleon (865817) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144416)

Teenagers have been driving adults away for years with loud noise. This is just one guy's attempt to get even.

Revenge is a dish best served at high frequencies.

Or, a lower frequency alternative (1)

dave-tx (684169) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144420)

I use a Brown Note Generator [wikipedia.org] to keep the teens away.

Wow, this is pretty stupid. (2, Insightful)

loraksus (171574) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144425)

At least, it seems like it to me.
Back in the days of dos, pascal and c programming in a text based ide, I used to run high pitched noises out through the pc speaker. I believe I specified something between 21,000 and 24,000 hz - although I'm fairly sure that the speaker wasn't exactly tuned (although it did go a bit higher (27,000-ish hz), although only a few of us were able to hear it - we had the computer randomly play these high pitched tones and the monitor would change color about 5 seconds after the tone started, so it was sort of a double blind test)
Yeah, high school was tons of fun.
Anyways... Even though the old folks might not be able to hear it consciously, it still affects them. People become moody, short tempered, and in general, quite bitchy. I honestly can't say that it is due to the effects of the sound - or the effects of interacting with people who are able to consciously hear it, but - to me, at least - it doesn't really matter, because chances are that if you have teens hanging around your business, they probably spend money there and you're going to have to interact with them.

And as for whether this bothers teens immensely, I call bullshit. Most of the older TVs out there put out a high pitched noise and it isn't like teens don't spend a ton of time sitting in front of one. Of course, old people enjoy buying crap like this, so it isn't to say there isn't a market.

Also, the sensitivity seems to go away after being exposed to the sounds of gunfire (anecdotal evidence based on my experiences, so take with a grain of salt) and other loud noises, so gangbangers and punkheads probably won't be affected ;)
And please, 75db? feh.

(feel free to use this as a perfect example of how to not write an argumentative essay btw)

hmmm (1)

IceSt0rrm (931573) | more than 8 years ago | (#14144428)

Can they get something like this in MMOGs?
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