Alaskan Cyclotron - Not in My Backyard! 392
j-beda writes "Wired reports that "Albert Swank Jr., a 55-year-old civil engineer in Anchorage, Alaska, is a man with a mission. He wants to install a nuclear particle accelerator in his home." To be used to create medically useful isotopes, and even though some of the neighbours are supportive, opponents "compared potential damage from a cyclotron mishap to the Three Mile Island nuclear reactor accident" though an expert says "Probably the worst thing that could happen with small cyclotrons is that the operator might electrocute themselves." It looks like the Anchorage Assembly plans to hold an public hearing on December 20 to determine whether Swank will be permitted to install the device."
I can understand the hold (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I can understand the hold (Score:5, Insightful)
What risk? Oh, wait, you mean the risk that the crackpots that the "opposition" digs up saying that a cyclotron could blow all of alaska to kingdom come could actually be right?
Look, I know people talk about bias and shit, and how everyone should listen to "both sides" of every argument, but didn't it occur to you that sometimes the other side is just plain wrong?
Re:I can understand the hold (Score:5, Insightful)
Emergency legislation banning home cyclotrons? Gimme a break. Why not just have a councilmember go talk to the guy and say "Hey, look. Your neighbors are concerned. How about coming and giving a presentation to explain this thing to everyone before you install it?"
My problem is that every disagreement in this country has to be some kind of a crusade nowadays. Don't like something? Protest! Shortchanged at the store? Sue! Teacher give your kid a B-? Lynch him! Guess we've lost the art of conversation.
My opinion: If there is no serious, likely risk, let him have it.
Re:I can understand the hold (Score:5, Insightful)
Radiation phobia (Score:3, Informative)
Very true, unfortunately. That's exactly why the medical imaging technology called Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) was renamed. The technique is a variation on an earlier technology called Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR). Someone (probably one of the early MRI manufacturers, like GE) realized that the word "nuclear" would have doomed the product, so they changed the name... along the same lines as renamin
Re:Radiation phobia (Score:2)
Re:I can understand the hold (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I can understand the hold (Score:2)
re: "most people" dumb argument and proof (Score:3, Insightful)
If you don't yet believe that a good 50% or so of the "general population" has irrational fears of such things as "radiation" and "nuclear energy", randomly ask some of them about such things. (EG. "Hello sir. Would you say that the possibility of getting brain cancer
Cellphones (Score:3, Funny)
I don't know about cancer, but I've seen evidence that cellphones fry your brain, based on the extreme stupidity of the users.
Admittedly, I never saw them before they got their phones.
Re:I can understand the hold (Score:3, Interesting)
2. Nuclear Physics is hard* (apologies to Barbie(R))
3. People fear Nuclear Physics
*Definition: Hard: "Cannot be completely understood by any human based on common adult eduction methods**."
**Definition: Adult Education Methods: "a 3 minute news story delivered on television in a sensationalized manner by a non-technically educated reporter."
I think my sig is rather appropriate today...
Re:I can understand the hold (Score:3, Insightful)
Vitamin C, for example is chemically fairly close to glucose and can be synthesized in large quantities.
If the food is getting enough radiation to break up vitamins, it's you are doing it wrong.
Radiation treatment kills LIVING cells, in particular bacteria and viruses and so on... stuff that makes you sick.
Sodium chloride or sodium iodide is the same no matter what the source. (Psst, that's why they call it that, because it IS that.) It doesn't matter if the atoms come fro
Re:I can understand the hold (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I can understand the hold (Score:3, Insightful)
No, it's all about fear. So a cyclotron can produce nuclear reactions. So what. It only produces radiation in one direction, and I could stand in front of one plenty long without dying (yes I would get damaged).
People fear the unknown (Score:2)
It's not reasonable to expect the general public to be experts in particle physics, but I'd like to think they could at least be bothered to do a little rea
Re:I can understand the hold (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I can understand the hold (Score:2)
May be he should have opeted for a Brige (Score:5, Funny)
This the same lawmakers who wanted a A bridge to nowhere [salon.com] costing $941 Million?
Re:May be he should have opeted for a Brige (Score:5, Informative)
Now to be fair, the bridge itself cost only $223 million. The $941 million was for the overall pork that Alaska got in that bill. That works out to ~$1500 per Alaskan compared to the $86 per citizen for the country as a whole.
Alaska = Federal tax revenue sinkhole (Score:2)
I've been thinking: it's no secret that the blue states subsidize the red states with tax dollars. Save for a few exceptions (PA and TX I think), the pattern of net cash flow is rather stark. And AK has to be one of the biggest recipients of Federal aid per capita, and one of the lowest contributors.
Why don't we just revoke its statehood and sell it to the Chinese?
Think about it. If you're the kind of person who thinks government should be run like a business, then this state, as a business unit, is a chr
Liberals get what they asked for & don't like (Score:3, Insightful)
And so they should, to the good bleeding-heart liberal who favors progressive taxation and government handouts for the less fortunate. Compare the average yearly incomes in the different states and you will see what I mean.
According to liberal dogma, the wealthy limousine liberal in Connecticut ought to be proud and happy that the government will take money from him and give it to the poor white trash li
NIMBY YIMBY (Score:2, Funny)
I'd put a skateboarding halfpipe next to him, maybe that will improve the area.
Re:NIMBY YIMBY (Score:2)
(What do you care about the subject for?) (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:(What do you care about the subject for?) (Score:5, Funny)
I think it was more that if you went to your hospital and said you were in for an NMR, you might have received something other than a Nuclear Magnetic Resonance scan...
Re:Could you clarify your joke ? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:(What do you care about the subject for?) (Score:3, Funny)
The real question, (Score:5, Funny)
Back Yard science (Score:5, Funny)
I have read about a kid building a reactor from smoke detectors [dangerousl...tories.org], and the NZ guy who built his own cruise missile [interestingprojects.com].
I sense a business opportunity for lead lined garden housing
Also, didn't Young Einstein manage to split the beer atom in his? (and with a hammer and chisel if I remember rightly)
Re:Back Yard science (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Back Yard science (Score:2)
Mail Order Nukes (Score:2)
and have a look about half-way down the page for the "glow in the dark" keyrings. Quote:
"Inside each GlowRing is a single sealed glass tube which contains a minute amount of active gas that permanently reacts with a luminescent coating."
Translation: "active gas" == tritium.
I've got a couple on order at the moment, for geek-type Xmas presents. They limit sales to UK customers only.
"Please note
Re:Mail Order Nukes (Score:2)
Re:Back Yard science (Score:2)
I'd love to get one of these, but not if it's going to make me sterile or make my hair fall out.
NIMBY! (Score:4, Interesting)
While obviously a cyclotron can't compare to a commercial nuclear power plant, I wouldn't want my neighbor building one. Aside from self-electrocution, they can release high energy photons which could reach other people, if improperly shielded. There is also the issue with any radioactive waste he may produce. The risk may be miniscule, but people generally shy away from non-controllable risks. While the guy is a civil-engineer, TFA doesn't say whether he has training or experience in nuclear technology or health physics either.
That said, I think it would be awesome to have a back-yard cyclotron. Imagine all the cool things you could do, activate pennies, evil radioactive monsters, become THE HULK, etc.
Re:NIMBY! (Score:2)
I fear my neighbors too! (Score:3, Insightful)
With all those household chemicals, pesticides, sprayers, fertilizers and the like, one could easily mix them wrong and gas the neighborhood to death. The gasoline from the lawn mower might leak and cause an explosion from the fumes. The pesti
Re:NIMBY! (Score:2)
You've just hit on the real reason that they don't what it. They don't want their kids visiting him and becoming The Hulk or Spiderman.
Re:NIMBY! (Score:3, Informative)
UPSs and surge protectors can only do so much.
That guy is going to be using A LOT of power and have BIG magnets for that thing.
Maybe he should move his buisiness to I dunno... maybe a comercial park or something where that sort of stuff is better tolerated. A buisness running from a home that causes problems for the residents in a residential neighborhood needs to shut down or move IMO.
Re:NIMBY! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:NIMBY! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:NIMBY! (Score:3, Informative)
TFA does say that he's
Re:NIMBY! (Score:2)
Last cyclotron I saw (admittedly in the 70s) was in a room with massive concrete walls and a powered concrete door for a reason.
OTOH, I cannot imagine that there are no specific laws in place that govern the requirements in terms of building construction and safety.
However, the same applies to biotechnology ("I am a biologist. I want to do some virus research...") and chemistry ("I did chemistry in school. Bet I can make Tabun in my basement
dihydrogen monoxide (Score:3, Funny)
Probably the worst thing that could happen... (Score:2)
We will know it didn't work by the 20 foot crater where the guy's house used to be.
Great .. now this will (Score:3, Funny)
no negative effects? (Score:4, Funny)
There goes my reason for not going into physics (Score:2)
Of course there are now other cutting edge fields that also are now open to low power and smaller scale/lower cost experimentation as well. These include fun with lasers, slowing light through different mediums, and of course the ever popular tabletop "cold fusion"
Take the city's side on this one (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Take the city's side on this one (Score:2)
Will they burn him at the stake... (Score:3, Insightful)
Pretty soon everyone will want one... (Score:2)
This guys to build list (Score:2)
2. Build own stargate with postorder material
3. Build warp engine
4. Build working deathstar on 1:1 scale
5. Build new porch at house so car can stand in shadow in the hot Alaskan summers.
Re:This guys to build list (Score:2)
Re:This guys to build list (Score:2)
Property Values (Score:2)
Re:Property Values (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't cross the streams....It would be bad. (Score:5, Funny)
Dr. Egon Spengler: I blame myself.
Dr. Peter Venkman: So do I.
Dr Ray Stantz: Well, no sense in worrying about it now.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Why worry? Each one of us is carrying an unlicensed nuclear accelerator on his back.
Objections not entirely crazy. (Score:5, Informative)
Again: this machine will be used to make radioisotopes. Short half lives or not, the proximal homowners have a legitamite reason to be concerned about a radioisotope factory next to their homes. What about contamination issues?
2: It is reasonable to have some concern about shielding. Anything energetic enough to make radionuclides can also make X-rays by the assload. Given that we're talking nuclear transmutation, a concern about neutron radiation (fairly long ranged and not stopped by standard rad shielding).
ASS-U-Ming the installation will be industry standard, there shouldn't be a problem. If this guy doesn't know what he's doing, he could cause problems. Given that nobody seems to know what his specific shielding and radcon/exposure control plan is... he screwed up by not getting preapproved in advance.
FWIW, i have run a re-tasked SDI helium-3 RFQ PET accelerator, and currently run the Tevatron, have manufactured antiprotons for the last 7 years send the Giant NuMI Neutrino beam from Fermilab to Minnesota, so i have a clue.
Let us rise above our usu. cynical smirking condescencion and allow as how the loi polloi have a legit concern in this instance.
Re: (Score:2)
Oblig. Futurama Quote (Score:5, Funny)
NRA Guy: "Well, first off, we're gonna get rid of that three day waiting period for mad scientists."
Farnsworth: "Damn straight! Today the mad scientist can't get a doomsday device, tomorrow it's the mad grad student! Where will it end?!"
NRA Guy: "Amen, brother. I don't go anywhere without my mutated anthrax. For duck huntin'."
This story made me think of this. Am I the only one?
christmas lights! (Score:2)
create his own aurora borealis? (although redundant, since he's in alaska)
and i don't see how anyone can oppose this guy if they accept the principle of existing contemporary christmas light displays that consume more power and emit more radiation than your average cyclotron
FUD from people who pronounce it nucular (Score:3)
He isn't some towel-head deforming the unborn in the name of some thing unspeakable or likely to blow up the neighborhood as the equipment is more likely to screw with people's TV signals than to leave a smokin' crater.
Next they'll riot and walk 'round with pitchforks in front of the dentist's because he's got an X-Ray machine. What?
This is too ignorant to be on /. (Score:5, Informative)
Iodine 131 is another reagent common in treating thyroid cancers...
Molybdenum has an isotope with a half-life measured in seconds! Used in scintillation scans of soft tumors. Molybdenum has six stable isotopes and almost two dozen radioisotopes, the vast majority of which have half-lives measured in seconds. Mo-99 is used in sorpation generators to create Tc-99 for the medical nuclear isotope industry.
Finally, the cyclotron is not radioactive - it bombards the target element to create an isotope that is radioactive. I'd live next door to one - even in Anchorage (spent last August in that city) with the extrodinary earthquake & tsunamai risk - because the cyclotron could only release the very small amount of material that it was bombarding at the time of a catastrophic failure.
Also, have any of you folks noticed that AK is 5 time zones removed from the East Coast? You simply can't ship these short-lived isotopes.
Many hospitals have cyclotrons for that very reason! Others have manufacturers in the same city. Not the case in AK.
THey need to get a life (Score:2)
This thing is probably far less dangerous then the industrial x-ray machines they use to check for metal fatigue, and welding integrity.
The neighbors biggest worry should be problems with their wifi when its operational.
So Silly (Score:3)
He finally completed the series... (Score:2)
out of this world (Score:2, Funny)
Or send himself to another world! [apple2.org.za]
Ahh... My Hometown... (Score:4, Interesting)
West Anchorage Highschool was a place of many tales as well. Underground bunkers that students from all over the district would try to sneak into the ductwork and access ways to go see. I even remember seeing a bunch of them down through an access plate in Junior Hall a good 20 feet down. Underground newspapers and pranks. But that's another tale.
If you ever get the chance to visit Anchorage it's a fun town. Nothing like living at the biggest town at the tip of the Western United States expansion. I wouldn't trade my youth there for anything.
Inventors: Use your most powerfull ally: (Score:3, Insightful)
Even when a young lad, I heeded it well: "An ounce of keeping your mouth shut beats a ton of explanation." That's saved my ass - in every imaginable context.
Folks who never even *took* science in jr. high (Score:5, Interesting)
But that's like the idiot article that a friend passed along to me, who's worried about the plutonium-powered RTG on the Pluto mission "polluting space with radioactivity" (I'm not making this up!)
mark
They have no clue. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:They have no clue. (Score:3, Insightful)
The guy can do that in a comercial park somewhere in Anchorage rather than a residential neighborhood.
Problem solved.
Re:They have no clue. (Score:3, Interesting)
And it is certainly more reasonable than his home, which as of 1/1/2005 was on 10th, still consi
No big deal (Score:3, Funny)
lack of science (Score:3, Insightful)
To me, the only valid complaint one might make without having ana advanced degree in physics would be wondering about the effects of the huge magnetic pulses this would put out and the effects on his neighbors' electronics for the
Re:lack of science (Score:3)
Here ya go (Score:3, Informative)
But when neighbors learned of plans to place the 20-ton device inside the house where Swank operates his engineering firm, their response was swift: Not in my backyard.
Find local technology jobs. Local lawmakers rushed to introduce emergency legislation banning the use of cyclotrons in home businesses. State health officials took similar steps, and
Re:Pish and posh (Score:5, Informative)
But you're right: I wouldn't worry too much about the nuclear splitting capabilities either. Adequate lead shielding will protect the neighbors just fine.
Re:Pish and posh (Score:2)
And risk your children licking it?
Or do you want to trust the same crazy neighbor who wants to run one of these things in a residential rather than industrial zoned area to install and maintain proper shielding?
Re:Three Mile Island (Score:3, Informative)
I hope you were being facetious.
Three Mile Island was nearly catastrophic. And radiation did leave the plant during the accident.
A quick Google search gave me this:http://www.fatherryan.org/nuclearincidents/tm i.htm/ [fatherryan.org]
I was a young child then, and I still remember the terror of living within the evacuation area. Nobody knew when they would need to jump in the car and leave their homes behind.
Re:Three Mile Island (Score:2)
Re:Three Mile Island (Score:3, Insightful)
If you look at it in a global view, I would suspect more people die of lung related diseases from coal and fossil fuel emmissions on a yearly basis than ever died of 3MI, Chernobyl, and all nuclear releated accidents put together.
I'm not supporting one over the other or even advocating nuclear power, but you have to remember sometimes that if a disaster or worse case scenario looks worse on paper or in people's
Re:Three Mile Island (Score:5, Informative)
It certainly wasn't good, and it definitely underscored the need for more modern designs in nuclear power plants. However, the plant *did* shut down like it was designed to do. And even if it hadn't, we still wouldn't have had another Chernobyl on our hands. Chernobyl was a poor design that was intentionally compromised for "testing". A very bad situation indeed.
The TMI design was sufficiently different that the materials wouldn't have been able to spread in the way that Chernobyl did. (And Chernobyl has been somewhat overstated, mind you.)
And radiation did leave the plant during the accident.
It's not the radiation you need to worry about. Radiation falls off according to the inverse square law. Unless you were standing next to the plant itself, you weren't in much danger. The *real* problem is the radioisotopes. If they escape the plant (which is what happened in Chernobyl's rather spectacular boiler explosion) they will make their way into the food and water supplies, and - by extension - into our bodies. Those radioisotopes would then proceed to give you cancer from the inside out.
I was a young child then, and I still remember the terror of living within the evacuation area. Nobody knew when they would need to jump in the car and leave their homes behind.
Which is the sad part about the lack of public education on everything nuclear. The plant was not a "bomb" waiting to destroy your neighborhood. Had TMI gone through a spectacular failure, you would have been able to evacuate without too much difficulty. The local resources would have been contaminated, but otherwise you would have been reasonably safe.
Keep in mind that the dozen or so people who died in Chernobyl were people at the plant. All other deaths (which have been greatly exaggerated by the media, mind you) were from radioisotope contamination. Thankfully, most everyone who experienced Thyriod problems were treated. (An impressive feat given the status of the Soviet government at that point.)
Don't get wrong. Nuclear technology can be a scary thing, and people DID die in Chernobyl. Had something worse happened, people might have died from TMI as well. But the amount of FUD surrounding these two incidents has caused massive (perhaps irreparable) damage to the development of safer technologies for controling nuclear power. Technologies, mind you, that could be useful in the next generation of power production. Even Fusion performed without proper safeguards is a very dangerous practice.
Re:Three Mile Island (Score:3, Informative)
You have missed my point, sir. My point was that leaking radiation is not a serious danger to the general populace. Had radioisotopes leaked, THAT would have been a serious danger.
Where did the OP say bomb?? All he talked about was the fear of having to leave ones home without notice never to return... which is pretty horriffic for
Re:Three Mile Island (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Three Mile Island (Score:4, Funny)
Tes
Re:Three Mile Island (Score:5, Informative)
OH MY GOD! TRACE AMOUNTS OF RADIATION WERE RELEASED!
SHUT DOWN THE COAL-FIRED PLANTS NOW!
Yes, coal-fired plants do release radioactive materials into the atmosphere. There's one plant in Utah that dumps more radioactive material into the atmosphere in a single day than the TMI accident. (This is due to trace amounts of uranium in the coal burned by the plant.) Oh, let's not forget that in addition to being radioactive, the uranium that the aforementioned coal plant releases is chemically toxic too, as opposed to the krypton released by TMI which is chemically inert and hence there is no way for it to bind itself to anything in the body. Let's not forget all the other chemical nastiness in the emissions from coal plants.
According to http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fac
In short, coal-fired plants do more damage to the environment each day than the worst nuclear accident in U.S. history.
Chernobyl does not count here, because it could not have happened in a U.S. power reactor, here are a few reasons why:
U.S. power reactors are fully water-moderated. If the water boils off, the core will likely melt, but the reaction will begin slowing down because the water is needed for the reaction to continue. Chernobyl, on the other hand, was graphite moderated and hence the reaction could continue even when water boiled off.
U.S. power reactors don't contain large amounts of superheated flammable substances in their core. The initial incident at Chernobyl was a steam explosion that wouldn't have been bad if not for the fact that it exposed the superheated radioactive graphite in the core to air, which immediately began burning violently, dispersing the core's contents into the atmosphere.
Operators of U.S. power reactors don't disable all of their reactor's safety systems in order to run dangerous experiments. (Chernobyl's reactor should have scrammed itself long before the accident occurred, but the operators intentially disabled all of the reactor's safety systems.)
Re:Three Mile Island (Score:2)
Re:Three Mile Island (Score:2, Informative)
Why aren't new nuclear plants under construction in the U.S.? [stpnoc.com]
Nuclear- and coal-powered plants are "baseload" facilities that operate continuously. Few
baseload power plants have been built in the United States since 1980 because much of the
country has excess electricity. Many utilities have only built "peaking" plants: small
facilities, generally fueled by oil or natural gas, that quickly can be turned on and off,
according to swings in demand.
More [nei.org]
Re:Three Mile Island (Score:2)
Re:Three Mile Island (Score:5, Funny)
I'll show myself out.
Re:Oh Great (Score:2)
Re:It cant be any more dangerous (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:It cant be any more dangerous (Score:2)
Re:It cant be any more dangerous (Score:2)
Why does that remind me of the cartoons where Speedy Gonzalez steals the cheese from the mousetraps?
Re:It cant be any more dangerous (Score:3, Interesting)
Sure, it's a lot easier for me to shoot the bastard who's shooting at me, if I have easy access to a gun. And easy access to a gun sure leads to a lot of gun usage during target practice, or out hunting.
Re:It cant be any more dangerous (Score:2)
Re:Wont happen (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Did you say Civil Engineer? (Score:2)
he knows how to run one.