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Debugging Microsoft.com

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 8 years ago | from the belly-of-the-beast dept.

Microsoft 511

teslatug writes "Channel 9 has an interesting video interview with Chris St.Amand and Jeff Stucky who test and debug Microsoft.com. They reveal some of the big problems they used to face such as recycling processes every 5 minutes due to memory leaks and 32 bit limitations, and being unable to push more than 10 Mbits of data to their datacenters due to Windows' networking stack limitations."

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T4C (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14189914)

Frist prost
rip klerck

Re:T4C (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14189930)

AMEN, MAY HE SPIN IN PEACE

What the... (5, Funny)

BrainInAJar (584756) | more than 8 years ago | (#14189917)

WMV? You serious?

How the hell am I supposed to watch that?

Re:What the... (3, Funny)

Trigun (685027) | more than 8 years ago | (#14189924)

Give us a little hint. What are you using to browse slashdot right now?

Maybe if you gave us some particuars, we could help.

Re:What the... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14190283)

He wants you to think that he's using all Linux. In reality, he's probably not.

Re:What the... (2)

MasterPi (896501) | more than 8 years ago | (#14189929)

Mplayer or gstreamer-xine might do the trick. I know, I know, its painful.

Re:What the... (0)

BrainInAJar (584756) | more than 8 years ago | (#14189952)

Well, since win32 codecs are not free software, they don't compile on my system.

Re:What the... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14189970)

Well, since win32 codecs are not free software, they don't compile on my system.

Really, they don't compile at all? Or is it that you don't want to do it?

Re:What the... (5, Insightful)

cortana (588495) | more than 8 years ago | (#14189997)

Maybe he isn't using i386.

Re:What the... (1)

jx100 (453615) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190071)

As he doesn't have the source code available, I doubt he'd be able to compile it at all.

Re:What the... (1)

BrainInAJar (584756) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190174)

No, they really don't compile at all.

Re:What the... (0, Troll)

heinousjay (683506) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190248)

Do you think maybe you gave up the right to complain when you espoused your beliefs?

I seriously don't mean to troll - you've voluntarily handicapped yourself. Now you get to live with it.

Easy. (4, Informative)

wilymage (934907) | more than 8 years ago | (#14189953)

1. mplayer [mplayerhq.hu]

2. xine [xinehq.de]

Not that tough, really, now is it?

Re:Easy. (3, Insightful)

GNUALMAFUERTE (697061) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190161)

Those are players, the codecs are still proprietary and binary only.

Re:Easy. (0, Offtopic)

the_humeister (922869) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190194)

Like the other guy said, the codecs are binary and proprietary, although mplayer and xine can play some wmv files right off the bat. Additionally, good luck getting the binary codecs to work under a 64-bit unix-like os.

Re:Easy. (5, Insightful)

AstroDrabb (534369) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190275)

You listed *players* not codecs. I will assume you meant one of the players you listed with the binary win32 codecs that usually get installed under /usr/lib/win32. They do work well and I use them. However, they are basically 32-bit x86 only, so if you are not running 32-bit x86, you are SOL. Maybe the GP is running PPC Linux or a 64-bit Linux? Or maybe the GP doesn't want to run binary only win32 dll files on his computer?

Re:What the... (4, Funny)

Tackhead (54550) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190027)

> WMV? You serious?
> How the hell am I supposed to watch that?

Well, if you're not running Windows, how the hell else are you supposed to get memory leaks? They don't just grow on B-Trees, y'know!

Re:What the... (0)

winkydink (650484) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190249)

I get a similar experience with Firefox.

Re:What the... (1)

teslatug (543527) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190046)

Same way as I did, with mplayer

Re:What the... (1)

JonathanR (852748) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190065)

You run an i386? You insensitive clod!

SCOTT LOCKWOOD: DIVORCED FOUR TIMES (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14190075)

Seriously have you seen Vlad's fourth wife (now his fourth ex-wife?) "Human" doesn't really cut it... "creature" is more like it. A gelatinous 500-pound behemoth unable to even wipe her own rear. And she divorced Vlad! One would think that a woman that hideous would hang on to any man she managed to snag. The fact that she dumped Vlad (LOL) says a lot about this man don't you think?

That's it... (3, Funny)

alfrin (858861) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190241)

Well do you think want to give us Linux users the satisfaction of seeing Microsoft employees admitting faults in their software?

flower power (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14189919)

I didn't read the article and probably won't, but I think I might have first post.

Missing info... (5, Informative)

DaHat (247651) | more than 8 years ago | (#14189921)

The summary is missing the fact that many of their problems went away after upgrading to an early 64 bit version of Vista with its improved networking stack.

Re:Missing info... (5, Insightful)

TCM (130219) | more than 8 years ago | (#14189968)

Again, what a nice way to push people to 64bit and make everything look outdated that's been in use so far, when all you'd need is a non-sucking OS.

Re:Missing info... (3, Insightful)

DaHat (247651) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190040)

Or... just that: "one of the busiest websites on earth was having problems with the current generation and what benefits they achieved with the new stuff... and of course if that works for such a high traffic website... just imagine what it could do for yours or mine... let alone our desktops!"

Re:Missing info... (1)

ClamIAm (926466) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190074)

what a nice way to push people to 64bit and make everything look outdated that's been in use so far, when all you'd need is a non-sucking OS.

If you're trying to serve lots of content at once, wouldn't you want an OS that blows really hard? And does this mean that Linux and the BSDs blow the most?

Re:Missing info... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14190137)

The summary is missing the fact that many of their problems went away after upgrading to an early 64 bit version of Vista with its improved networking stack. - DaHat

Again, what a nice way to push people to 64bit and make everything look outdated that's been in use so far, when all you'd need is a non-sucking OS. - TCM

So you're saying that an early 64 bit version of Vista is a non-sucking OS?? :) They must have changed it because the latest one I tried was still sucking. 64 bit 2003 runs much better on my AMD.

Re:Missing info... (4, Informative)

Swamii (594522) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190143)

Let's not forget that this limitation is a limitation of TCP itself as implemented in the 30 year old spec. See this /. post [slashdot.org] for more info.

Re:Missing info... (1)

Swamii (594522) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190157)

I really need to hit preview more often. I meant to say "TCP stack itself". :-p

Re:Missing info... (1)

vishbar (862440) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190203)

Are Linux/OS X/BSD/Solaris, etc. affected by this limitation?

Re:Missing info... (1)

Swamii (594522) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190254)

Good question. I suppose it depends on whether each Unix distro uses a TCP stack implemented to-the-spec, which is 30 years old. If they are, then yes, the *nix OSes would be affected as well.

Re:Missing info... (1)

TCM (130219) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190285)

I guess if they were, they couldn't be used to set TCP transmission records [sunet.se] , could they?

Re:Missing info... (1, Funny)

bill_kress (99356) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190062)

It's also missing the fact that more problems would go away if they upgraded to Linux with it's improved everything.

Life is incomplete.

Vista? (1)

camcorder (759720) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190142)

When did they release Vista as a stable release? What kind of ignorance is that to use a beta product in such a critical site for Microsoft.

Re:Vista? (4, Insightful)

SonicBurst (546373) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190247)

Microsoft does this all the time. They call it eating their own dogfood. In a way, it's quite smart actually. One, it shows customers that they aren't afraid to run their own product. Two, it helps them learn how to use and support their products in a large network. And three, it helps them find defects in the software.

32-bit... yeah, that's it. (-1, Troll)

ryanov (193048) | more than 8 years ago | (#14189926)

So Microsoft.com faced some big problems from running on shitty Windows?

Don't we all! No... wait... some of us don't.

Re:32-bit... yeah, that's it. (1)

DaHat (247651) | more than 8 years ago | (#14189950)

Perhaps... but not all of us receive the amount of traffic that they do.

Re:32-bit... yeah, that's it. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14190156)

hey lol microsoft has real-world problems too but hay we should all use linux and suck each others' dicks am i rite guyz?

404 error for this story (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14189927)

The next post will be about debugging slashdot.

Hmm... (2, Funny)

chrstphrb (885917) | more than 8 years ago | (#14189934)

I think the term is, "Pissing into the wind"....

10 Mbits PER-? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14189942)

week, month, lunar orbit, eon, pound ...?

Re:10 Mbits PER-? (1)

Pantero Blanco (792776) | more than 8 years ago | (#14189978)

I'm guessing they mean per second. It would really suck if they couldn't fit more than that on their webserver. :)

Re:10 Mbits PER-? (1)

lord_sarpedon (917201) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190016)

'Nobody will ever need more than 640k RAM!' - Bill Gates, 1981

Re:10 Mbits PER-? (1)

MaskedSlacker (911878) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190045)

He hadn't innovated the upgrade treadmill yet when he said that. Now its "Everyone needs 4GB of RAM!"

Re:10 Mbits PER-? (1)

HermanAB (661181) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190109)

picosecond

There is a alternative.... (-1, Redundant)

ash.connor (908279) | more than 8 years ago | (#14189943)

...maybe they should try Linux.

Re:There is a alternative.... (0)

DarkEnder (915573) | more than 8 years ago | (#14189969)

Wow, didn't see that one coming.

Re:There is a alternative.... (5, Insightful)

medazinol (540033) | more than 8 years ago | (#14189980)

Hey, Microsoft has to eat their own dogfood if they want to keep some modicum of credibility no matter how bad the food tastes...

MOD PARENT UP - ORIGINAL COMMENT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14190018)

Christ, they may as well run Max OSX Server. Dolt.

Sounds like a lot of crap... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14189944)

Why don't they just migrate to Apache on OpenBSD? :)

Oh, right...

Re:Sounds like a lot of crap... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14190015)

Please, let's never speak of that Hotmail debacle again. :)

Re:Sounds like a lot of crap... (1)

Mancat (831487) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190053)

Because OpenBSD isnt' scalable. [bulk.fefe.de]

Re:Sounds like a lot of crap... (1)

ClamIAm (926466) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190111)

The OP wrote:

Why don't they just migrate to Apache on OpenBSD? :)

Oh, right...

I really don't understand why this is modded flamebait. Anyone who reads slashdot with any regularity should have at least an idea of the number of stories and comments posted that read something like "we were having trouble with OS/app/version foo, so we tried out bar and it's working much better for us". And this being Microsoft, well they probably aren't going to try out FOSS stuff with any serious intent of putting on production webservers. Seriously people, get a sense of humor.

well, whatever... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14189956)

call me when he's done, because he obviously is not finished yet... :P

How long..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14189963)

...Until the slashdotting?

Hmm.... (5, Funny)

lord_sarpedon (917201) | more than 8 years ago | (#14189976)

I suppose that, transitively, it is due to a limitation in an archaic version of the BSD stack.

Re:Hmm.... (1)

HermanAB (661181) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190128)

Heh, I had to chuckle when I saw your comment. Either that, or it is an inherent limitation in the VMS to BSD compatibility layer...

Re:Hmm.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14190132)

Don't tell me. Now that BSD is dying, the BSD stack is transitively dying. This must mean that the internets are doomed in some fashion. That must be why Google is buying all this dark fiber, to stay clear of all the BSDs. Ah, now I see it, I must invest in SCO at once.


In soviet russia, BSD dying is, er, transitive also!?

Suprised? (3, Funny)

MasterPi (896501) | more than 8 years ago | (#14189983)

Is anybody really suprised here? What they didn't tell us is that there's a top-secret Debian redundancy server running behind it just in case all hell breaks loose. Nothing to see here, move along.

The Desk (1, Funny)

techsoldaten (309296) | more than 8 years ago | (#14189988)

Did anyone notice the desk? What kind of soda cans are those on his desk? I thought they were Hansens, but it does not look like any I have ever seen.

M

Re:The Desk (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14190078)

Give a fucking shit

Re:The Desk (1)

pballsim (119438) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190098)

It's called "Talking Rain" available in Seattle.

The Video (2, Insightful)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190125)

The video is 38 minutes long
http://wm.microsoft.com/ms/msnse/0511/25766/micros oft_dot_com_debug_team_2005_MBR.wmv [microsoft.com]

While I usually RTFA (unlike most slashbots) I think we can all agree that at 40 minutes maybe 1/2 a percent of /.ers will actually watch this.

/me waits for the transcript

And yea, I saw the cans, but the bit-rate of that video is so low, I have no clue what they were. Maybe that red one on the left is a coke or dr. pepper?

"10-15 Gigabits per Second" (0, Troll)

someonewhois (808065) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190000)

Wow.

Ironic? (5, Funny)

heistgonewrong (808413) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190005)

Is that not one of the most ironic things you've ever heard? The limitations of the operating system made by the same company holding back another division? Shock and awe.

Re:Ironic? (5, Funny)

djward (251728) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190060)

Is that not one of the most ironic things you've ever heard?

No.

Recycling processes is normal for windows (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14190024)

Having worked on a small-ish e-commerce site in the past, recycling IIS is normal. Go ask turboTax how many windows servers they had and how often they used to recycle IIS. That's all pretty normal.

Re:Recycling processes is normal for windows (1, Funny)

JonathanR (852748) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190093)

Yes, I know. I put mine in the wheelie bin last night...

Re:Recycling processes is normal for windows (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14190108)

It's also normal for Apache processes -- you can configure the maximum number of requests a given process will service before it recycles.

Re:Recycling processes is normal for windows (4, Interesting)

GNUALMAFUERTE (697061) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190221)

Absolutely true. I used to work for a hosting company, we had GNU/Linux and Windows servers.
The GNU/Linux servers were the ones with more hits, and the ones that required less atention. The windows servers were a pandora box of problems. IIS just can't hold up by itself, if you just serve static pages you are ok, but when people starts using that asp + odbc shit, you have to restart IIS every 5 fucking minutes. We used to receive a stupid "too many conections" from ODBC in our log, and restarting the stupid services woudln't do a damn thing, all you could do was restart the machine, Yes, restart a SERVER. That's about the worse thing a sysadmin can go through, the panic of not knowing if that crappy windows was going to come back up or not. OTH, our GNU/Linux machines with sites running a variety of CGI apps (PHP, Perl, etc), all using MySQL, supported 5 times the load on the windows machines without complaining, and i'm talking about 300 sites on simple x86 hardware, less powerfull than the one on the windows machines, that died with less than 100 sites ...

Not just Windows stack limitations (4, Informative)

ThinkFr33ly (902481) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190037)

The limitations discussed in the video of the Windows TCP stack are not limited to Windows. These are limitations imposed by a to-the-spec implementation of TCP. TCP is 30+ years old, and it wasn't designed for the kinds of networks it runs on today.

The new TCP stack in Vista effectively implements TCP is such a way that it removes these limitations while preserving compatibility with old stack implementations.

Re:Not just Windows stack limitations (1)

Aadain2001 (684036) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190099)

Yup, the original TCP stack sucked. Newer implementation do away with a LOT of memory copying for one, which alone can speed up the stack performance several times. Throw in a few more new tweaks and you can get even faster. All MS has done is take all those changes and used them.

Re:Not just Windows stack limitations (0, Troll)

ThinkFr33ly (902481) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190134)

That is absolutely not what Microsoft has done. You honestly thing the reason they were only getting 10 Mb/s between their datacenters was due to memory copying? And when I said "implementation" I wasn't talking about the internal code, I was talking about the way it interacts across the wire.

Microsoft has completely revamped [microsoft.com] the way that TCP handles packet transmission.

Nice try with the ignorant MS bashing though.

Re:Not just Windows stack limitations (1)

BlueHands (142945) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190236)

So, from my brief scanning of the doc file you linked to, what chimney does it change the way the os works with the nic and tcp?

So does this mean that this one of those cases where they improved the performance, on the server side, without breaking any compatibility or adjust the standard at all?

Re:Not just Windows stack limitations (-1, Offtopic)

Sinryc (834433) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190237)

This was NOT a troll. Someone posting something GOOD about microsoft is trolling now? Wow. Slashdot is SOOOOOOOOOO fair and even

Re:Not just Windows stack limitations (1)

sh4na (107124) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190262)

The new TCP stack in Vista effectively implements TCP is such a way that it removes these limitations while preserving compatibility with old stack implementations.

...

That is absolutely not what Microsoft has done. You honestly thing the reason they were only getting 10 Mb/s between their datacenters was due to memory copying? And when I said "implementation" I wasn't talking about the internal code, I was talking about the way it interacts across the wire.

Microsoft has completely revamped [microsoft.com] the way that TCP handles packet transmission.

If the new tcp stack retains compatability with the old one, then how are the innovations in the way it interacts with the network? For it to be compatible it has to "interact" with the network like any other stack, so it can't gain any leverage in that level, can it? Or are you saying that the new stack is only advantegeous if the machines are all vistas? Just curious how that works out.

Re:Not just Windows stack limitations (1)

sh4na (107124) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190272)

of course, the last paragraph should not be italicized... blame it on the missing /i and clicking on the wrong button... :p

Re:Not just Windows stack limitations (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14190195)

It's not just the stacks, it's the entire protocol. Have you ever tried using TCP to communicate with a Mars probe? Try it* sometime and you'll see the inherent problems I'm talking about.

* Authorized use only of course.. may need to join NASA

Re:Not just Windows stack limitations (3, Informative)

ThinkFr33ly (902481) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190265)

Opps... I posted the wrong link. Somebody later on in the comments posted the correct link to the document that describes the new Microsoft TCP stack called Compound TCP [microsoft.com] (CTCP).

OMG (0, Troll)

dartarrow (930250) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190055)

Windows had PROBLEMS?! OMG. Call the Press! Shock. Horror. Oh the horror. That has never happened before!
 
And hey. If they gotta use unreleased technology to get acceptable quality what about people like us, ey?

You knwo something is just plain wrong... (-1, Troll)

scenestar (828656) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190066)

When a product doesn't even properly for the vendor itself.

Re:You knwo something is just plain wrong... (1)

Zlib pt (820294) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190165)

That reminds me one of the windows 95 presentations, when the scanner was connected by USB to the computer :D

Stack limitations?! (1)

mynickwastaken (690966) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190080)

Or stack overflows?!

Video transcribed below: (5, Funny)

iamwoodyjones (562550) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190082)

Interviewer: "Hey dude."

Chris St.Amand "What up bro"

Interviewer: "So like what happened when you worked on microsoft.com? Oh but first...Did you get all the chicks at the bars when you mentioned your job or what?"

Chris St.Amand "Oh totally. I'd just say, 'what up babe. I work on the microsoft.com web portal' and she'd degfrag my harddrive all night."

Interviewer: "Sweet. So what was your biggest hurrdle writing all that HTML? After all that's a complicated langaguage to master."

Chris St.Amand "It'd definelty have to be that F'ing page not found shit. You don't know how many times I'd go to microsoft.com after doing a big update and it'd just say four-oh something and the page just wouldn't show up. You know we tried to put up a 420 page not found but got in trouble with our boss."

Interviewer: "Yea totally! That would have been cool. Oh ummm let's see here. So what other problems did you have?"

Chris St.Amand: "Not being able to use FreeBSD to serve that shit. When I first heard I actually had to use Microsoft I was completely like, 'Not cool Bill. Not F'ing cool, Bill.'

Interviewer: "Any thing else? Like was it hard to get up every day in the morning knowing that your existence was updating microsoft.com HTML?"

Chris St.Amand: "Yea I tried sucicide a number of times. But then I discovered that I could just completely make up new HTML tags and that was a lot of fun."

Interviewer: "Make up HTML?"

Chris St.Amand: "Oh yea, we're microsoft. When I first started they told me that no other browsers exist other then that big blue F'ing E and that no other operating systems exist. And that I could do whatever I wanted to do. So I just started making up *ALL KINDS* of crazy ass HTML.

Interviewer: "Cool dude. You rock. Anything else you want to mention?"

Chris St.Amand: "Yea you know all that crazy F'ed up HTML that all of our products output? You know without indention and messed up question marks everywhere? That was me. I was all hung over the day I added that. And that's about it."

Interviewer: Thanks Chris, I'm sure you'll go down in infamancy for such a piece of F'ing shit web page and end up in some lame ass 'Don't write web pages like this' hall of fame.

Chris St.Amand: "Peace out and remeber to eat your greens not smoke 'em!"

Re:Video transcribed below: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14190136)

hahaaha that was a good one

Re:Video transcribed below: (1)

stavromueller (934803) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190144)

Good, now I don't have to read the article.

Re:Video transcribed below: (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14190260)

Ze Lame filter, it does nothing.

Whoever modded this +1 Funny should be shot in the head for crimes against humour, the post was nearly as long and boring as the friggin video linked in the article, after the first line the joke was over, but did it end? Nuh-uh. It just kept on going and going like a 5 year old telling you a knock-knock joke for 15 minutes. Like watching corpses discussing lawn care at a Christmas party or making jokes about software that was outdated a decade ago. NOT FUNNY.

If you started reading the post and laughed; good, if you read it to the end (and you know you didn't) and were still laughing (impossible, since you didn't read to the end anyway, you liar) you should wipe the cheetos outta your hair plastered face and beat yourself bloody with a VHS copy of Jerry Lewis' "Slapstick" (i.e. the most non-humerous object known to man).

Oh and have a nice day. Additionaly: Microsoft, much like your humour, also sucks.

Re:Video transcribed below: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14190276)

and if your analyzing the post this much, well you must be even lamer

Windowshades (0, Flamebait)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190124)

They had those bushleague limits while their bosses were telling corporate customers to throw away Unix for their network operations. With all the inhouse advantages (money, expertise, source code) of running Microsoft's own systems. What serious enterprise defects do you think MS astroturf is covering up these days? No wonder so many corporations have switched to Linux. Not only does the OS work better, and you get the source code to fix it when it doesn't, but it isn't backed by a giant spin machine pretending it isn't a toy.

And no, TrollMods, this poll doesn't count as that: I'm not on any Linux marketing payroll, and what I say is actually true.

10Mbits/s? really? (2, Interesting)

psyon1 (572136) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190146)

Is windows really limited to 10mb/s due to the network implementation? Now I am really glad I convince people to use Linux, we have one server pushing 480Mbits/s or so using Lighttpd.

Design flows shoudln't get patched ... (5, Interesting)

GNUALMAFUERTE (697061) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190147)

They should be redesigned.

That's a big problem of software made by companys:

1 - The company's cashflow is based arround selling new versions of the software
2 - They can't sell to it's customers improvements that they customers can't see
3 - There is a fixed time that can go by beetween one release and the next one
4 - Resources are limited

Because of this, a major redesign is something that won't be profitable, because only the advanced users will note the changes, but 99% of their customers won't, so the software won't sell well. Bug fixes also won't sell, because they are also unvisible to the naked eye of the majority of the userbase, and also customers expect those changes to be free.
So, some companys only can expect revenue from a given software once a year, and they have to invest into that software, a given set of limited resources over, say, 6 months, when they have to freeze the featureset so they can start debugging. Seeing which things sell, they will obviously focus their atention on: New Features, and a nicer GUI.
OTH, a project that doesn't have a company running it, can just get out lots of upgrades, when needed, and focus their time on making the software better, even if some of the changes made to the software won't be seen by most of it's users.

With software prices dropping, and Free Software proving to be a better option, the budget of software companys will be even more limited, and we won't see this situation changing anytime soon.

Montreal Canadiens (1)

cwalk (899502) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190154)

Love the shirt, MS loves the Montreal Canadiens. I also liked the fact they plugged firefox. Go firefox and/or Montreal Canadiens!

these guys would love to use apache and squid (0)

mistabob (913746) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190169)

These guys would love to use apache and squid, they know that it is the best way to do the job. But they can't ! They have to run this on shitty microsoft sofware, whatever is the cost !
They must be paid a lot to look these good
I'm pretty sure there is some firefox hidden on that computer and many debian and apple boxes hidden under the desk

It's good to hear this from inside microsft, i wonder how it got throw the censorship we could expect from this company

URLs always change (1, Interesting)

hey (83763) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190190)

I which they could keep their URLs (on microsoft.com) fixed. That way links to the site won't alaways be broken. Its not that hard.

Err ... (5, Funny)

ggvaidya (747058) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190212)

Am I the only one who looked at the title and thought: "debug microsoft.com? Who still uses .com files any more?"

Yup, thought so. I suck.

More memeory, need 64 bit (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14190217)

They reveal some of the big problems they used to face such as recycling processes every 5 minutes due to memory leaks and 32 bit limitations, and being unable to push more than 10 Mbits of data to their datacenters due to Windows' networking stack limitations."

Micro$oft needs 64 bit so it can leak more memory faster and stay running. Or at least this is how I read this.

As for 10mbs, maybe they should put a Linux/BSD/UNIX cache in front of those servers like MSNBC did to get through the last olympics.

In Soviet Russia, Microsoft.com debugs YOU (0, Troll)

defile (1059) | more than 8 years ago | (#14190279)

OK OK I couldn't resist.

I'll never do this again.

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