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Kazaa Owners Risk Jail

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the kazoops dept.

Music 221

An anonymous reader writes "There's been a twist in the Sharman Networks vs record labels case in Australia. Lawyers for the music industry now claim that Sharman's attempt to block Australian IP addresses from accessing the Kazaa website doesn't comply with a court order. As such, they want Kazaa masterminds Nikki Hemming and Kevin Bermeister to go to jail term. The saga began in Feb 2004 and ZDNet Australia has a complete timeline."

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It's their own fault (2, Insightful)

Hey Pope Felcher . . (921019) | more than 8 years ago | (#14264938)

They should have made Kazaa ownership much like their softwares ideology, P2P.

I'd like to see Australia try to jail that many people.

Re:It's their own fault (4, Funny)

ziggamon2.0 (796017) | more than 8 years ago | (#14264956)

Well, consider that once, their entire population was imprisoned...

Re:It's their own fault (5, Funny)

Ilex (261136) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265055)

If the media cartels get their way everyone's going to jail.

Why don't we have done with it and implement the final solution. Turn the whole planet into a jail.

The Record Company execs will of course have to be ejected into space.

Re:It's their own fault (1)

Ced_Ex (789138) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265136)

Why don't we have done with it and implement the final solution. Turn the whole planet into a jail.

Well, considering the vast majority of us are prisoners of gravity, I'd say it's already a jail.

Re:It's their own fault (1)

suitepotato (863945) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265583)

Why don't we have done with it and implement the final solution. Turn the whole planet into a jail.

(tinfoil hat on, whispers...)

And what makes you think it already isn't?

(tinfoil hat off)

I mean, it's not as though we can presently escape this system.

Re:It's their own fault (1)

Patrik_AKA_RedX (624423) | more than 8 years ago | (#14264985)

Weren't European criminals exiled to Australia a few centuries ago? I seem to remember me something about this being mentioned in The Simpsons.

Re:It's their own fault (2, Informative)

Fishstick (150821) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265061)

indeed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_colony [wikipedia.org]

The British used North America as a Penal Colony through the system of indentured servants. Convicts would be transported by private sector merchants and auctioned off to plantation owners upon arrival in the colonies. It is estimated that some 50,000 British convicts were banished to colonial America, representing perhaps one-quarter of all British emigrants during the eighteenth century. When that avenue closed in the 1780s after the American Revolution, Britain began using parts of modern day Australia as Penal Colonies. Some of these early colonies were Norfolk Island (which became the flogging hell meant to deter even the most hardened criminals- see cat o' nine tails), Van Diemen's Land and New South Wales. Advocates of Irish Home Rule or of Trade Unionism (the Tolpuddle Martyrs) often received sentences of transportation (the harsh regime started during the long shipping) to these Australian colonies.

also
http://www.eurekatimes.net/1788-1868.htm [eurekatimes.net]

The Penal Colony of New South Wales stands even today as one of the darkest episodes in English Imperial History. Yet in the way they ran that military camp, a set of remarkably strong social institutions were born. These institutions continue to provide a bulwark of strength that has underpinned the growth and stability of our modern Australia society even to this very day. In this index we record the birth of those great Australian Institutions together with some other interest notes on that period.

Re:It's their own fault (2, Funny)

Idimmu Xul (204345) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265089)

What with the syndication of Neighbours, Home and Away and Dame Edna [dame-edna.com] back to the UK, I think the Aussies are getting their own back :(

Re:It's their own fault (-1, Redundant)

Heian-794 (834234) | more than 8 years ago | (#14264994)

Shouldn't be that hard. Wasn't the whole continent once a jail?

Re:It's their own fault (2, Interesting)

JonN (895435) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265002)

Um, for them it shouldn't be that hard. "Britain decided to use its new outpost as a penal colony; the First Fleet of 11 ships carried about 1500 people--half of them convicts. The fleet arrived in Sydney Harbour on 26 January 1788, and it is on this day every year that Australia Day is celebrated." Right from the Australian Foreign Affairs website [dfat.gov.au]

Ideology? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14265167)

Their software's ideology is "People can download free shit, we can collect commissions from installing spyware"

Never stop and naively think for a moment that P2P is about "liberation" and "love and share". Whether of not you consider P2P a good or bad thing, have no illusions. The people that made all of these programs are, at their heart, businessmen that simply want to profit.

Do you really think that making Kazaa's ownership be spread out like that is a viable option? They did not write Kazaa "just for fun" or anything like that. They did it to make money. Never forget that.

Re:Ideology? (2, Insightful)

Rei (128717) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265370)

Whether of not you consider P2P a good or bad thing, have no illusions. The people that made all of these programs are, at their heart, businessmen that simply want to profit.

I can name quite a few P2P software developers who would strongly disagree with your broad-stroke stereotyping on that front. For example, of the Gnutella clients listed on Wikipedia:

Acquisition, Acqlite, Apollon, BearShare, Cabos, CocoGnut, DM2, FrostWire, giFT, Gnucleus, Gtk-gnutella, iMesh, KCeasy, Kiwi Alpha, LimeWire, MLdonkey, Morpheus, Mutella, Phex, Poisoned, Qtella, Shareaza, Swapper.NET, Symella, XFactor, XNap, and XoloX:

Only 6 of 27 are closed source, while 18 of 27 are outright GPLed. The vast majority are both freeware and un-spywared/ad containing.

Re:It's their own fault (4, Insightful)

ZorinLynx (31751) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265186)

I think jailing people for such pathetic white collar crimes is ridiculous.

They're not a danger to society; if you want to punish them, take away their computers or something. But jail? Come on!

Jail should be reserved for murderers, rapists and other violent types. Not people who write software for trading music on the Internet.

Why are governments so damn messed up?

-Z

Re:It's their own fault (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14265285)

how about the guy that steals a billion dollars and results in a few hundred thousand people to lose their jobs?

is that deserving of jail?

Re:It's their own fault (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14265793)

No, I don't think that is deserving of jail.

Just take the money from him, give it back to the people it was stolen from, and have him flogged/caned/etc.

What does putting this guy in jail get anyone? The taxpayers now have to pay for his incarceration, and is anyone really safer? You really think this guy is going to get away with something like this again?

Jail is just a shitty form of revenge for most cases.

Re:It's their own fault (4, Insightful)

Ucklak (755284) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265306)

That's a damn good point.
I don't want murderers or rapists on my streets, at all. Get em out.

But jailing someone for stealing a digital 'copy' where it doesn't hurt anyone is ridiculous.
So the content creator maybe lost out on a 'lost' sale. Let that content provider SUE for monetary damages if need be.

Now if the person makes digital copies for profit, then I'm for jail time because they hurt commerce and busines in general.

Re:It's their own fault (1)

DaHat (247651) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265316)

I agree with the other poster. Your idea is quite naive as it ignores all of the criminals who may have committed non-violent crime.

So if I break into my local Best Buy at 3am, steal all of their iPods and plasma tv's and sell them on eBay and if convicted I get... house arrest?

Re:It's their own fault (1)

nelsonal (549144) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265527)

You should have to pay them back at full retail for the amount of the iPods and plasmas you took. Plus a kicker to the state for having to round your loopy butt up.

Re:It's their own fault (1)

Headcase88 (828620) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265652)

And if you don't get caught you're off scott-free. The worst that can happen is you lose what you stole and have to pay a little kicker. Let's see what happens to theft rates when fear of jail time is removed.

Re:It's their own fault (4, Insightful)

jasen666 (88727) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265656)

Sure, that's what the ankle bracelets are for. Program the thing sound the alarm if he goes anywhere other than his home or his work.
This way, our legal system isn't spending my tax money housing and feeding his ass, and he's forced to work to pay off what was stolen.
Now, if he had used a gun and robbed the place, he's a menace and should be locked up.
But most white collar criminals are generally just idiots that don't want to hurt people, just wanted to steal something. Don't lock them up and make us pay for them. Put their asses to work and make them pay it back.

Re:It's their own fault (1)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265207)

Kazaa's ownership is as close to P2P as you can get, with fake corporate entities all over the place and other sleezy business tactics designed to make them hard to be held accountable.

They aren't martyrs. If they hadn't latched onto this thing they'd probably be running drugs or operating some sort of pyramid scheme.

Re:It's their own fault (4, Insightful)

Catbeller (118204) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265385)

Since we'll have GPS in our phones, accessible at will by spooks and cops; cameras on every corner, every highway; DNA catalogued against our will; health care taken away at the whim of unknown lords, drug testing at will by our employers; unacceptable speech not permitted on private property (almost anywhere you shop or work or park...) free speech in public monitored by the military, spooks, and the dominant political party; laws that make everyone in the world a criminal; the ability to vote taken away if we're convicted on any of these new "felonies"; and all of us subject to recordings of everything we ever do on the internet (which soon will be surfing, TV, phone, all our purchases, text messages), the ability to run for office taken away if "they" decide to broadcast any of your recorded pecadillos...

We're to be numbered, watched, recorded, arrested at will, fired at will, paid slave wages per a "free" market that somehow can't pay workers but pays the bosses ever increasing millions.

Prison can be defined as what YOU can do compared to what your jailers can do, or do to you.

How, exactly, are we all now NOT in prison? Of course, I'm speaking of the U.S, but I assume Australia isn't exactly shrinking from doing the same as the US and the EU.

This is the most important subject in all our lives. We're being locked up, and we're helping them do it.

dude, where's my toilet paper?! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14264940)

Man, I just took a massive shit and it came shooting out of my ass sideways so fast that it made my nutts rattle against my legs like a dinner bell.

Very ONtopic! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14265071)

> Man, I just took a massive shit and it came shooting out of my ass sideways so fast that it made my nutts rattle against my legs like a dinner bell.

And just how is that Offtopic? Hmm?! It is BECAUSE of Kazaa that I'm typing these to you from our communal library.

--Inmate #1345, San Quentin

Elimination (5, Funny)

CmdrGravy (645153) | more than 8 years ago | (#14264947)

I'm surprised the movie industry doesn't just have them shot and be done with it, it'd be cheaper in the long term and the relative evilness of the act wouldn't impact there current evilness quotient too much.

Re:Elimination (3, Funny)

JonN (895435) | more than 8 years ago | (#14264971)

But...wouldn't that make them, at least to some, 'evil'? ...oh wait, we are talking about the movie industry, move along nothing to see here

Re:Elimination (1)

Patrik_AKA_RedX (624423) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265037)

hmm, what's worse? A bullet through your stomage and a slow painful death or being assraped every day in the showers?

Civil war with the content providers ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14265080)

I'm surprised the movie industry doesn't just have them shot and be done with it

Indeed, that is surprising.

But it's no more surprising than the fact that nobody's yet provided the movie and music industry bosses with remedial education of the ballistic kind. With 100+ million active downloaders in the world feeling persecuted by a greed machine, death is coming, statistically.

This whole thing is getting ugglier and ugglier by the month, fueled by the greedy and oiled by lawyers living on an entirely different planet. It doesn't require much clairvoyance to forecast a future of unhappiness.

Re:Civil war with the content providers ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14265525)

I love how the /. crowd justifies downloading by calling the music and movie industies greedy. To me, downloading shit for free seems kind of greedy. But hey, those folks making music and movies are rich already right?

Re:Elimination (4, Interesting)

grumpyman (849537) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265121)

Guys, I'd wonder what are the ramifications if a company or organization actually murder a person? The chief executive goes to jail and that's it (like mafia)?

Re:Elimination (1)

CmdrGravy (645153) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265232)

Maybe they could outsource the hit to Al Quaeda or some other terrorist outfit, they need the money and the support of a major industry might help rebuild their reputation.

Re:Elimination (1)

grumpyman (849537) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265264)

On the reverse, maybe it's much easier to accuse Kazza guys AS the Al Qaeda compatriots then the government got a good excuse to lock em up.

Re:Elimination (1)

Ryan Amos (16972) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265304)

IANAL, but same as any murder investigation, people are personally responsible. Anyone who knew about the plan and made no effort to stop it or report it would be guilty of conspiracy. This would be a textbook case of conspiracy, actually (in Texas at least, conspiracy is defined as an agreement between two or more parties to commit a felony.)

Re:Elimination (1)

b0bx13 (743667) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265595)

They would have to agree to it, not just know of it. Americans have protection against crimes of inaction.

Re:Elimination (1)

mzwaterski (802371) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265350)

Well a company or a corporation can't really pull a trigger. An employee could. That employee would certainly face jail time. Presumably any co-conspirators would too. If the board of directors all voted to have the employee kill the person, they'd all be likley facing jail time for conspiracy and aiding and abetting.

Re:Elimination (1)

Slime-dogg (120473) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265809)

If the board decided that the person should be killed, then the board should be held for first degree murder. The person doing the actual killing is merely the weapon being used by the board to do the muder. The actual killer should also be held on the same charges.

Aiding and abetting would be the action of the board, after finding out that one of the members became a murderer, in covering up the crime.

Re:Elimination (3, Funny)

quokkapox (847798) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265557)

Getting whacked is easy enough to avoid - don't accept a free ride on a small airplane that says SONY on the tail.

Re:Elimination (1)

CmdrGravy (645153) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265171)

I actually meant to type "record labels" and "their" in that post, please forgive me if these mistakes cause any offence.

Re:Elimination (1)

westlake (615356) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265637)

I'm surprised the movie industry doesn't just have them shot and be done with it

Posts like these, modded +5, and the comments which inevitably follow, do not say much for the maturity of the Geek mind and culture:

"But it's no more surprising than the fact that nobody's yet provided the movie and music industry bosses with remedial education of the ballistic kind. With 100+ million active downloaders in the world feeling persecuted by a greed machine, death is coming, statistically"

It is lunatic to define "persecution" as "being forced to pay for music or movies produced for commercial distribution." and to suggest that the proper punishment is death.

Of course... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14264949)

Time to put the CEO of Xerox in jail too, I guess. Oh, and Sony, for their VCRs. And DVD-RW drives. And Microsoft, because Kazaa runs on Windows. Oh, and the Intel CEO too, because Windows runs on Intel processors. And don't forget Maxtor's CEO, because the files are written to a hard drive.

What happened to putting the actual people who commit crimes in prison? Oh, wait, it's much easier to target the gun maker...

Re:Of course... (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265063)

And Jon Postel, who is the principle author of RFC 959 [faqs.org] . Probably Tim Berners-Lee, too.

Re:Of course... (4, Funny)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265128)

Actually you have the answer in there.

Put the CEO of sony in jail and you creater a recursive loop that will make all RIAA and MPAA members heads explode.

you single handed discovered the one flaw in their armor. BRAVO!

Re:Of course... (1)

Politburo (640618) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265178)

Oh, wait, it's much easier to target the gun maker...

Then the solution is simple. The software industry merely needs to lobby Congress to enact a liability shield.

Hypocrites (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14265197)

We all know what kind of stink this places gets into as soon as the **AA targets individual downloaders. Make up your mind. The same thing was true when they went after Napster, you all said that they should target the copyright infringers. They did. You changed your mind again.

I for one am glad that Slashdotters are too poor to own stock. Capitalism works!

Re:Of course... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14265506)

And the difference.....

All the aforementioned were designed for things other then copyright infringement but can be used to infringe.

Kazza was designed to facilitate copyright infringement. Plain and simple.

So its ok for sony to sneak in root kits? (4, Insightful)

ZiakII (829432) | more than 8 years ago | (#14264952)

So when will Sony be going to jail for their root kit issue? Funny how there not facing criminal charges when what they did was so worse. Add in the fact they still have not taken responsibility for what they did.

Re:So its ok for sony to sneak in root kits? (4, Insightful)

caffeinex36 (608768) | more than 8 years ago | (#14264964)

MONEY.

Re:So its ok for sony to sneak in root kits? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14265087)

Funny how there not facing criminal charges when what they did was so worse

because nobody has reported them to the police ?
go down your police station and file charges against them, give the police as much evidence as they want and demand they are prosecuted

And... (4, Insightful)

Meagermanx (768421) | more than 8 years ago | (#14264959)

In other news, your constitutional freedom of speech has been revoked to prevent crimes such as slander, assault, libel, and copyright infringement.

Re:And... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14265022)

How come?

Re:And... (1)

Shakes268 (856460) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265059)

"...as a result of an ACLU lawsuit"

Seems to me actions by the ACLU end up causing society to be more restrictive than before.

Re:And... (1)

leonmergen (807379) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265066)

Explain to me, what exactly is the direct relation between P2P file sharing and freedom of speech?

Filesharing sounds a lot more like freedom of beer to me... :-)

Re:And... (1)

EvilSporkMan (648878) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265512)

Well, if I send you a file, all I've really done is used my computer to tell you a rather large number, which you've used your computer to remember. It's a lot closer to speech than property transfer...it even takes place over a _communications_ network, not a shipping line.

Re:And... (1)

ari_j (90255) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265161)

Does Australia have a constitution that guarantees the right to free speech?

The thing that strikes me about this story is that in the US, corporate crimes are punished by fines or by dissolution of the corporation, except in cases like Enron where it was not the corporation doing bad things but its directors. Even so, the directors were punished, not the owners (i.e., shareholders).

OUTGOING (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14264962)

HELLO WORLD
16451 16451
HELLO WORLD
27162 27162 08079 08079 71104 71104 44809 44809 42002 42002
79702 79702 95535 95535 99689 99689 83697 83697 50526 50526
83361 83361 96889 96889 11320 11320 06976 06976 23672 23672
16028 16028 16545 16545 39285 39285 18804 18804 44212 44212
91917 91917 24143 24143 75006 75006 56566 56566 80892 80892
41388 41388 63490 63490 96832 96832 46589 46589 74629 74629
62243 62243 09437 09437 23683 23683 01644 01644 13078 13078
26479 26479 82536 82536 98933 98933 06860 06860 84105 84105
74598 74598 07557 07557 31647 31647 95391 95391 65671 65671
06001 06001 97797 97797 92504 92504 56871 56871 89902 89902
89868 89868 34626 34626 17477 17477 55256 55256 86151 86151
79438 79438 82920 82920 15164 15164 60945 60945 74342 74342
48765 48765 04461 04461 96493 96493 43464 43464 71616 71616
86397 86397 26292 26292 75748 75748 32291 32291 99106 99106
58400 58400 94462 94462 11010 11010 37035 37035
K-BYE

No light at the end of the tunnel (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14264966)

It looks as though record labels will keep fighting against change until it's too late for them to change themselves. At least they can't say we didn't warn them.

Re:No light at the end of the tunnel (4, Insightful)

east coast (590680) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265043)

It looks as though record labels will keep fighting against change until it's too late for them to change themselves.

They've ultimatly dug their own hole. Instead of embracing a viable e-business model early in the game they instead went after a very small segment of the population that was taking music via napster and the like. During this time they were writing up their "victories" in the hopes of beating back the tide of geeks sharing 2 Live Crew albums. Instead of fending off the geeks they got Joe Sixpack interested in his own form of music theft. And here we are today; the music industry is trying to embrace the internet to the tune of 99 cents a song but Joe already has an easier and cheaper solution.

I wonder if the RIAA thought that P2P and music piracy was going to go away once they defeated Napster? They would have been better off leaving Napster alone and spending the resources on serious developement of technology to keep their media on a paying basis.

But it's like they say; hind sight is 20-20. I'll drink to that.

Re:No light at the end of the tunnel (1)

turbohappy (927938) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265154)

It wasn't really hind sight. There were thousands of people trying to tell the record companies that at the time. I was and I'm not even that smart!

Re:No light at the end of the tunnel (2, Insightful)

Funakoshi (925826) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265217)

Nice to see someone else with the intelligence to see how the record labels dropped the ball. There are not nearly enough comments such as this one when it comes to this topic. The pop-explosion would have been ten fold if they had marketed the product properly (as would the new pop-punk explosion). Think of all the burnt CDs that are/were kicking around that revenue could have been earned on...I'd hate to guess how much it would be.

Re:No light at the end of the tunnel (1, Insightful)

kamapuaa (555446) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265275)

Obviously you are suiting history to fit your propoganda. The idea that Joe Six-Pack started filesharing copywrited files after the RIAA made news by suing these people is, well, not at all the truth. You know it, and everybody here knows it.

More than that, the RIAA started suing in different countries at different times. It hasn't happened at all in China, where filesharing is extremely popular. Face it, free easily-available music and movies is a model with no viable competition. The threat of legal problems or ramping up the difficulty of bootlegging is the only way to compete.

Re:No light at the end of the tunnel (3, Interesting)

capnchicken (664317) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265690)

Bullshit,

There was a very small segmant of the population that knew about Napster, before Metalica stepped in and made it headline news. That was where they could've nipped it in the bud and realized right then and there that the jig was up and everyone knew how much their widely available, non-tangible, forced scarcity media was really worth in economic terms.

If there was a legal way to download songs at a nickle or 50 cents (a dollar is still too much for a song to me) back then, then the societal acceptance of free downloads would have never come into play. And people would associate it more with shop lifting.

Also how (not to be snoody, really asking this) does the Recording Industry Association of AMERICA have any say in Chineese law.

One more thing, if these guys hadn't tried to shut down K++ lite, then maybe I would feel some pity for them, but it's clear all Sharmen wanted out of this was a way to make a lot of money off with a tool designed to rip off of other people's copyrights while enforcing their own like it means more than everybody else's. Fuck them.

Re:No light at the end of the tunnel (2, Insightful)

deleveld (607488) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265286)

I very much doubt the music industry had any idea what would happen to online music once they defeated Napster. Nobody else knew what was going to happen either. Of course the lawyers making money from procecuting Napster told them that shutting Napster down would solve the piracy problem. This is obvious self-interest.


Any process with a positive growth coefficient grows exponentially until something starts to limit its growth. Consider the process of procecuting P2P. What does it cost? Who makes money from it? Of COURSE lawyers are going to scream about procecuting P2P. Its they way they make money! Whether or not its (P2P or prosecution) good for the music industry is an entirely different question.

Re:No light at the end of the tunnel (2, Informative)

Rei (128717) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265443)

I wonder if the RIAA thought that P2P and music piracy was going to go away once they defeated Napster?

I read an article once that had an interview with a former Napster exec (I don't remember who) on why the RIAA settled with them. It was near the end, and it was obvious that they were going to lose, and they started talking with the recording industry. They pointed out that, hey, there's this new client out there called Gnutella, and guess what - it doesn't have a central server to take down. The RIAA people seemed completely unaware of this, and hadn't even thought about how to deal with such a situation; that's what prompted them to decide to start going after new digital media outlets after ignoring them for so long.

Re:No light at the end of the tunnel (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14265516)

They won't because they won't make as much money that way. As simple as that. And they can't put tracks out for free so they think that they might as well keep them high because even if they lower prices the "evil pirates" will still be pirating and everyone else will carry on buying music legally-they'll just be making less money per CD sold.

Time paradox? (5, Funny)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#14264977)

Australians "risk" jail? Australia was jail!

Re:Time paradox? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14265078)

I went to Australia once. Going through immigration they asked me "Do you have a criminal record?", and I said "I didn't know you still needed one..."

Re:Time paradox? (1, Informative)

east coast (590680) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265143)

Heh! Mod parent funny. That's the best thing I've heard all day.

Re:Time paradox? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14265328)

wtf, this was modded informative while its parent is still at Score: 0?

Re:Time paradox? (0, Offtopic)

Cow Jones (615566) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265461)

I went to Australia once.

When Tim and I to Brisbane went
We found three ladies in a tent
They were three
And we were two
So I booked one, and Timbuktu.

Kazoo owners risk jail (3, Funny)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 8 years ago | (#14264978)

Now if only they'd jail harmonica players, too.

Re:Kazoo owners risk jail (1)

AndersOSU (873247) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265127)

First they came for the kazoo players/ I remained silent/ I did not have a kazoo
When they locked up the harmonica players/ I remained silent/ I did not have a harmonica
When they came for the triangles/ I remained silent/ I did not play the triangle
When they came for the cowbell/ there was no one left to speak out.

Standing ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14265000)

I thought only the court could start thinking that anyone was in contempt of it. Not some random private party.
Still, what do I know. IANAL. I guess we'll see.
As a programmer, it's hard enough to keep 'software' of any sort working, when it is on the public Internet. Threats of jail time do nothing for my creativity or my desire to teach.

Any recording company exec went into jail - ever? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14265001)

I wonder, if ever any record company exec went into jail for defrauding artists, for monopolizing public radio and television frequencies by payolas, for creating pricing cartel?
Or this is an industry with outstanding moral to clients, customers and public?

What? (5, Informative)

Rayin (901745) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265048)

As such, they want Kazaa masterminds Nikki Hemming and Kevin Bermeister to go to jail term.

Actually, they want no such thing.

From the article:
Counsel for the record industry, Tony Bannon, said his side "didn't want" an imprisonment outcome, but argued that Sharman had failed to comply with the order.

Re:What? (1)

Lxy (80823) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265195)

I think "didn't want jail time" is referring to the original charge of copyright violation. I may have misread something, but it appears that they are now pushing for jail time in light of the federal law violation.

Re:What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14265227)

Honestly, I didn't want to smack you across the back of the head, you were just being too stupid.

Re:What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14265231)

Yea.. maybe i'm joe cynic but perhaps what they say they want and what they actually want done are quite different. They cant very well say "we want these guys in jail" off the bat, but now its ok.. its out of there hands.. oh we didnt want imprisonment but they forced our hands.. they are the bad guys not us.

totally irroneous judement (1)

Saint37 (932002) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265097)

Quote: "ruling that Sharman and associated parties had authorised users of Kazaa to breach copyright." This is rediculous. The statement makes absolutely no sense. It's like saying that if I buy an FTP program and use it to uload viruses, then the maker of the FTP program has authorised me to do so and can be found liable. It's also clear from the article that the judge invovled here is knows nothing about technology and doesn't seem to be very interested in learning. In my eyes this should disqualify him from the case due to incompetence.

http://stockmarketgarden.com/ [stockmarketgarden.com]

Re:totally irroneous judement (1)

chrismcdirty (677039) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265288)

But the creator of the FTP program is not providing the network to share the files. Sharman Networks created the software and provided a master server that told the clients what was available.

Do I feel they're responsible for what their users shared? No. Is it the same as the situation your presented? Again, no.

Translated for those who didn't RTFA (4, Informative)

Lxy (80823) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265108)

Yes, there is the possiblity of jail time. This goes beyond copyright issues.

Sharman is being accused of contempt. Contempt because they may not have complied with a court order. This case appears to be going to trial. If found in contempt, they could face jail time.

This isn't about copyright anymore. The last judgement against them was about copyright. This is about violating federal law. If they are found to not have complied with a court order, they are in violation of federal law, which is grounds for jail time.

Breaking federal law is not good, and getting caught is worse. Sharman did this to themselves.

Re:Translated for those who didn't RTFA (5, Funny)

Predius (560344) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265228)

I don't see the contempt of court here.

Court - "Fix your software to meet our requirements for our market."
Kazaa - "Nah, we'll just pull out of your market, no infringement, no issue."
Court - "Uh... like, no, you have to offer software to us so we can impose requirements on it, cause, ummm..."
Austrailian RIAA - "Yeah, cause we loose if we don't have someone to blame for 'lower profits!'"
Court - "Thats not quite right, shut up you!"

Good (4, Interesting)

Verteiron (224042) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265138)

They've got it coming and I don't really care about the P2P issues. A couple of years ago, it seemed like every other computer I worked on was in my shop solely due to the spyware installed by Kazaa. An otherwise clean computer that had Kazaa installed on it became unusuable within a matter of days due to the sheer volume of popups, RAM-hogging spyware/junkware and all the other crap that Kazaa installed as a matter of course. Uninstalling Kazaa left behind all the junkware. Uninstalling the junkware left behind reinstall tricklers and more often than not would break Winsock completely. Kazaa was the first software to install really damaging spyware automatically; they certainly opened the door for lots of other software to do the same once Sharman proved it was a viable business model. If for no other reason, these yoyos should go to jail for intentionally deceiving hundreds of thousands of users without the slightest regard for their time and money.

Re:Good (1)

aniefer (910494) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265606)

Kazaa behaved much better when you replaced the dlls that handled the ads with empty shells that implemented the api but did nothing. I never had problems with spyware after doing this.

Re:Good (1)

JaXx-StoRm (936638) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265760)

If you ask them they don't include spyware http://www.kazaa.com/us/help/new_nospy.htm/ [kazaa.com]

Nice how they redefine spyware to suit their own needs:
Kazaa, which is supported by advertising, and Kazaa Plus, which is not advertising supported, do not deliver software -- which we refer to as "spyware" -- that is installed without your prior consent or that gathers any personally identifiable information without your consent.

Not that I'm sayin spyware has a definition. Just makes me laugh that they decide what is and isn't spyware.

Is the court's suggestion technically feasible? (4, Insightful)

ragingmime (636249) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265157)

So the courts want the Kazaa folks "to modify the software to ensure 3,000 keywords would be filtered by 5 December." The hitch is that existing copies wouldn't filter stuff, presumably - the nature of P2P makes that impossible.

I don't see what the big deal is: the owners did all they could to take Kazaa out of Australia altogether. Even if they made a modified version of the program for Australians - which I think would be less of a drastic change than denying downloads altogether - the fact remanins that the original version of the program will be floating around on the Internet and that plenty of people already have it. You can't filter those people's programs, and who's going to knowingly download a crippled verion of Kazaa? And deleting or disasbling existing copies of the program is similarly impossible.

So if you knowingly set up a network that you can't take down, what happens when it's deemed illegal and you say, "Hey, my hands are tied"? Is anyone to blame there? The users? The creators? Justin Frankel (who first dreamed up the Gnutella [wikipedia.org] protocol that Kazaa is based on)? This is a really messy issue, and I don't think that the judge fully understands what the record companies are asking for.

Re:Is the court's suggestion technically feasible? (4, Insightful)

Tezkah (771144) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265305)

Yes, Kazaa connects to a central servers, which the spyware profiteers (Kazaa owners) run.

They implemented the Australia IP block on the server, and could easily do the same with the searches. Other programs, such as DirectConnect and Bittorrent wouldn't be so easily controlled by their creator, because they run on networks that were not set up by the creator of the program.

Re:Is the court's suggestion technically feasible? (1)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265804)

They prevented Aussie IPs from downloading Kazaa off the Sharman website.. as if they couldn't go to the dozens of major software sites and get the client from there.

The court ordered them to do something very specific.. and they didn't.

That qualifies as contempt of court in pretty much any legal venue I've heard of.

I realize you're saying that it wouldn't matter much if they complied with the court's wishes, because people could find older/unmodded clients, but that does not remove the obligation to comply with the court's order.

BTW- It is possible to disable all existing copies of the software. Like they've done many times, all they have to do is change the Fasttrack protocol and release a new client. That's what the did back when Morpheus forgot/stopped paying the license fee to be on the network. They could have complied, but didn't.

Uh huh (2, Insightful)

GmAz (916505) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265198)

So this small guy, Kazaa, has to take responsibility of its software, but large companies like Sony don't need to take responsibility of their software. Thats a thinker.

Re:Uh huh (1)

marco.antonio.costa (937534) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265614)

"Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility."

I really like that one.

Those terrible file sharers.... (3, Insightful)

fionnghal (306289) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265289)

I think the Austrialians need to go after those guys who invented File Transfer Protocal, more files have been shared that way than any other peer to peer software ever written. :-P

Archie (5, Interesting)

RedLaggedTeut (216304) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265493)

I think the Austrialians need to go after those guys who invented File Transfer Protocal..

You are trying to be funny, but the US music industry really did try to shut down ftp (successfully) by taking down the Archie index servers. The funny thing is, at the time I wasn't even aware that ftp could be used en masse for distributing music without a license; the Archie index servers were useful in general. This means the music industry will have no remorse to take the entire internet down with them if they expect to maintain their profit margins. You may not even remember Archie because it was killed by the music industry.

Re:Archie (1)

fionnghal (306289) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265746)

The secret to humor is that it must contain a grain of truth - Archimedes.

The internet is a strange and new concept in the world. I feel it has the potential to alter not only the music industry as it is and has been for the past century, but probably the concept of ownership, copyright and even sovereignty as well.

I can see that the music industry will fight tooth and nail around the world to suppress it, but I personally see the internet as a tide that cannot be stopped. It is way too late, and way too useful to be controlled effectively by any government or corporation. In the end, I don't think they have a chance in hell.

Re:Archie (1)

xmorg (718633) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265756)

I dont remember archie, but wow.... sad :(

The First Keyword to Filter (1)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265364)

The first keyword on the list to filter: Kazaa_previous_version.exe

Kazaa is sooo 90s. Who cares... (1)

TastyWheat (302413) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265386)

The dinosaurs in the record industry are showing their scales by wasting their resources on technology that is 5 generations behind the current P2P protocols.

The vedict is in and the record industry lost years ago.

Yah but in the meantime (1)

kludge99 (196947) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265476)

People like Kenny lay of Enron fame get away with stealing us blind!

Jail terminology (1)

digitaldc (879047) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265505)

As such, they want Kazaa masterminds Nikki Hemming and Kevin Bermeister to go serve a jail term?
or is it:
As such, they want Kazaa masterminds Nikki Hemming and Kevin Bermeister to go to jail?

I am so confused.

A BOOTING would be the best punishment! (1)

objekt (232270) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265705)

Andy: [jovial] Well, you're free to go, Bart...right after your
              additional punishment.
Homer: Punishment?
  Andy: Well, a mere apology would be a bit empty, eh? Let the booting
              begin.
Homer: Booting?
  Andy: Aw, it's just a little kick in the bum.
                [a man with a gigantic boot walks in]
  Bart: Y'uh oh.

Awesome (1)

hypergreatthing (254983) | more than 8 years ago | (#14265817)

Now can we get the music execs in jail for price fixing too? That would be awesome.

I'm pretty sure that once you start a company all personal responsiblity goes out the window and you're above the law. I mean, come on. Jail time? When are the Sony execs going to jail for installing crap on other people's computers?

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