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XP SP2 Adoption Lagging Overseas

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the large-patches-frustrate dept.

Security 234

Vizquel wrote to mention an eWeek article reporting that Microsoft is frustrated with the lack of Service Pack 2 usage overseas. From the article: "During a keynote at the Security Summit East here, McKee said Microsoft has so far distributed more than 250 million copies of XP SP2 to provide a hardened shell around the operating system but the low upgrade levels remains a disappointment."

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BREAKING NEWS FLAHS (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276172)

When asked for comment Steve Ballmer replied:


"I'm gonna fucking kill Overseas, i've done it before and i'll do it again"



He then hurtled a chair in the direction of Japan.

Re:BREAKING NEWS FLAHS (2, Funny)

Criliric (879949) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276268)

I Hope Someone Makes A Game For That Too....

LOL@ dirty nerd fucks! (-1, Troll)

AssCork (769414) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276177)

Get a friggin date already!
I live in Europe - is overseas the USA? If so, I stand by my assertion that the USA is a shithole that deserves everything it gets. If not, I still think that. Fuck all y'all/

Re:LOL@ dirty nerd fucks! (-1, Troll)

mdman (846276) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276742)

Im glad we deserve this great country of ours. The USA is the most envied country in the world.. Im sorry your envy is getting to you. Merry Christmas!

I'm no expert.... (-1, Flamebait)

John Pfeiffer (454131) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276182)

...but I'm willing to bet the slow adoption rate has something to do with the sheer number of things that SP2 BREAKS...

Re:I'm no expert.... (2)

pdpTrojan (454023) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276211)

Such as?

Re:I'm no expert.... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276224)

Not to mention SP2 refuses to install on pirated keys... Piracy rate is pretty high in far east countries like China, ya know.

Re:I'm no expert.... (4, Informative)

Jarnis (266190) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276615)

It refuses to install with exact same pirate keys that SP1 refuses to install.

If your key allows SP1, it allows SP2.

Yes, world is filled with idiots still spreading the ages-old 'Devils0wn' XP release from the beginning of time, which does not allow SP1 OR SP2 installation without changing the key.

However, changing the key takes all of 30 seconds, and tools (+list of 'valid' keys) can be found online in about 2 minutes of googling.

Re:I'm no expert.... (0, Troll)

cralewyth (934970) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276259)

I concur. Even months after SP2 was out, I installed it and it broke my system. Soon after, I reinstalled, then switched to linux... No more need for SP2 upgrade ^_^

Re:I'm no expert.... (1)

kuzb (724081) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276270)

All this comment says to me is that you don't know what you're talking about. Many of us use the same applications now that we did in SP1 without any appreciable difference.

If you're going to troll, at least find something valid to complain about.

Re:I'm no expert.... (1)

anomaly65 (765909) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276279)

.....such as the 10 connection TCP limit. A pitiful bandaid to slow cousin Joe's infested zombie/spambot. Perhaps SP2 would be interesting if it included real fixes, or IE7 (or better yet, firefox ;-) ).

That's not it at all. (1)

DogDude (805747) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276378)

It's because bandwidth is much more expensive in Europe than in the US. Simple explination.

One Million Free CDs For The UK (1)

westlake (615356) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276596)

It's because bandwidth is much more expensive in Europe than in the US. Simple explination

Microsoft to distribute XP SP2 on one million CDs [zdnet.co.uk] [July 9, 2004]

No charge, even for postage.
You would also have found SP2 bundled with your favorite computer magazine.

Re:One Million Free CDs For The UK (1)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 8 years ago | (#14277134)

As the Director of First4Internet, I find that offensive and Socialist. They purpose of the machines of poor people is to serve me in my botnet, much as they serve me in my company.

Muhahahaha!

Re:That's not it at all. (2, Informative)

Alphab.fr (897672) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276630)

hum, I'm quited tempted to say it's very much the other way around... Here in france we have 20 Mb/s for 30/month... To get back on topic, I tried to upgrade some Warez Xp to SP2 but couldn't... I'm now a happy mac user :

Re:That's not it at all. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276781)

Bandwidth is so cheap here in europe that dedicated servers have traffic flatrates for 50 already and a 20mbit internet costs whooping as low as 25 in countries like france. In Germany the Flatrates without the DSL connection part (yes you can have it seperatly here) come for as low as 0-5/month for any type of DSL speed you can order, prices for it max out at 30 for 16-20mbit.

um (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276186)

um.. Windows has issues - patch it.

No Surprise (1)

dch24 (904899) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276209)

XP SP2 to provide a hardened shell

<sarcasm>I wonder if more people would adopt XP SP2 if Gates got David Letterman to comment on the Micro, Soft security (like Win95 http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/total-shar e.ars/8 [arstechnica.com] )

Or maybe they could plug in a USB device and demonstrate how stable the system is, like Gates did for Win98 (http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9804/20/gates.c omdex/ [cnn.com] )</sarcasm>

WHO CARES? (0, Troll)

w1z7ard (227376) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276231)

Honestly, this is by far the most uninteresting and useless slashdot headline I've ever seen. I'll take troll hits if necessary. For the love of god, why would I care if someone updates to service pack 2 or not? Christ!

Prime factorization (3, Funny)

this great guy (922511) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276316)

--
Please prove this for me:
Prime factorization is NP-complete.

I failed. I miserably found an algorithm able to quickly & easily factorize any large number. Damn I am so ashamed that I am gonna destroy all my work, and live as an hermit in one of those distant mountain. How the hell could someone found an intelligent use of such an algorithm ? Pffft.

Re:WHO CARES? (1)

LifesABeach (234436) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276444)

Could it be that because this company called "Microsoft" is trying to push a closed source product? My computer teacher says, "Be careful about software that has no peer review, and if it breaks, you can't look inside to see why." Maybe those at Microsoft could talk to some people that are familiar with debugging.

prime factorization is coNP (1)

dscho (819239) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276542)

... which means that if P != NP, it is not NP-complete.

Hth,
Dscho

Re:prime factorization is coNP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276907)

It's in RP which does overlap NP some.

Re:WHO CARES? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276751)

people who dont not upgrade are at risk of having there computer compramised.
these people also can become part of ddos botnets which can in turn attack websites and other services.

so yeah. people care about if someone patches there system.
these people are normaly called "system admins"

Re:WHO CARES? (2, Insightful)

LurkerXXX (667952) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276764)

Because if they won't bother upgrading to SP2, they probably didn't bother to turn on the firewall that came in XP that's off by default (until SP2). Lots of machines on the internet without firewalls means more infected machines on the internet. That more useless traffic clogging things up. More virus/worm traffic. More spam. More phishing sites to trap your less tech-savy friends and family members. More zombie machines being used to DDOS servers (some of which you may actually want to use). etc, etc. Lots more bad stuff.

That's why you should care, even if you never run a MS machine yourself. More patched machines on the internet is better for all of us. Whether we use the same OS or not.

Re:WHO CARES? (3, Insightful)

Anne Honime (828246) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276786)

Honestly, this is by far the most uninteresting and useless slashdot headline I've ever seen. I'll take troll hits if necessary. For the love of god, why would I care if someone updates to service pack 2 or not? Christ!

I do ; while I personnaly use Linux on an exclusive basis, I really care about SP2 spreading because my mail boxes are constantly hammered by botnets of un-patched windows computers. The more SP2 there are out there, the less spam will hit me. So please, upgrade before I kill an innocent bunny to make my point.

Possible reason (5, Insightful)

GeekyMike (575177) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276233)

I am wondering if he is referring to the upgrades of licensed copies. If not countries such as China and others with almost institutionalized software piracy might cause this lack of upgrades. If it is for licensed versions, I could assume a lack of bandwidth being somewhat limiting. I personally have had no issues with XP SP2 either time I installed it, but the second time was much more pleasant because I had my cable internet connection.

Re:Possible reason (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276309)

And the problem is:

- Persons who download the SP2 vs. persons who install the SP2

or

Persons who installed the SP2, then finanally decided to abandon WinXP for productive use and switch over to to KDE.

I have XP SP2 on one partition I hardly use. I don't need a "secure" environment. I need a productive environment. And surprise, surprise, I never experienced any security problems with Linux, my system does not freeze and it just works.

And Linux gets better every day.

Re:Possible reason (1)

Stan Vassilev (939229) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276312)

If you install Windows XP clean, the proper way is to patch the installation itself and burn a new CD. Then you can install Windows on arbitrary number of PC-s and they all have SP2 by default (even without internet connection).

Re:Possible reason (5, Insightful)

Stan Vassilev (939229) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276377)

There are two reasons for the low adoption overseas:

A. Ignorance, as in:

"I don't need it, I'm safe"
"I don't know where to get it"
"ess pee.. what?"
"oh no I can't do it, it's too complex"

B. Piracy concerns, as in:

"oh no, they blacklisted my serial key and will b0rk my PC"
"OMG, it calls MS and reports my pirated copy"

Thing is MS did black list the keys but wants SP2 everywhere, even pirated copies, since it's bad PR to have tons of vulnerable Windows copies around. I know people still on 98 btw.

Re:Possible reason (1)

ScottCooperDotNet (929575) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276380)

In my store we downloaded a single Network Install copy of it and burned it to CD, it's been used countless times. Microsoft even offers SP2 on an standalone CD, I think you have to pay shipping though.

Re:Possible reason (1)

Spacejock (727523) | more than 8 years ago | (#14277165)

I had an issue: I upgraded the cpu & motherboard on my home built PC from a P4 to an Athlon64. The XP-SP2 service pack would install, then lock on the first boot with a STOP: 0x00000007E error. I'd have to ghost the partition back each time, and in the end I gave up on SP2 altogether.

I found the fix, finally, but it still seems to be a bit of a secret [spacejock.com] (Second entry from the bottom)

So, maybe others are having the same issue. It can't be that uncommon.

In related news... (4, Insightful)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276244)

Overseas are frustrated with SP2 obsession with registering.

Because Piracy Abound (5, Insightful)

robbyjo (315601) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276258)

Well, SP2 adoption is slow because piracy abounds in foreign land, especially in Asia. Windows updater checks the authenticity of the installed windows and refused to install SP2 (and other updates) if the check fails. For some reasons, critical updates can be downloaded from time to time, but not always. Coupled with lack of broadband internet and clueless users, I'm not surprised at all to hear this news.

Re:Because Piracy Abound (1, Troll)

Wizy (38347) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276283)

Welcome to the real world. Here in the real world most other countries have better broadband and more broadband users. Another funny thing is that the SP2 I install on everything doesnt do the genuine check. Yet another point would be that the check for genuine windows is rather new, way newer than SP2 and so anyone could have done it before that check, if that is the problem.

Do you have any valid points?

Re:Because Piracy Abound (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276381)

Yes, we know that China, India, and Africa all have MUCH BETTER broadband than we do.

Its amazing how when a few countries that represent a tiny fraction of the internet population offers better internet services, they all of the sudden become "the entire world".

Re:Because Piracy Abound (2, Informative)

plantman-the-womb-st (776722) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276535)

News flash, Africa is a continent, not a country.

Kenya may have worse internet service than us, but does that mean Egypt and South Africa do also? What about Morocco and Niger?

Re:Because Piracy Abound (1)

jonnythan (79727) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276313)

Is that true?

Microsoft is essentially guaranteeing a vast network of comprimised machines by denying security updates to pirated copies.

Wow.

Re:Because Piracy Abound (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276390)

God, Microsoft just can't be right, can they?

Sorry, but look, it's not Microsoft's job to provide bandwidth and services to pirated copies. Yes, it would be nice if they did (and they used to, I don't know about now.) However, you cannot blame Microsoft for not updating pirated copies. It's like a cable company sending out someone to fix a person's cable when that person pirates their cable.

While that analogy is somewhat flawed since pirated cable doesn't hurt anyone else, the fact of the matter remains that it is not Microsoft's job to patch pirated copies. Just because you don't like Microsoft doesn't make it right to say that they should.

Re:Because Piracy Abound (1)

mixmasta (36673) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276937)

Nah, I don't agree.

In general it's true they shouldn't reward the pirates, but SP2 is such a necesity they should have made a one time exception.

The armies of windows zombies are everyone's problem, even if you use a mac or linux.

Re:Because Piracy Abound (1)

vonsneerderhooten (254776) | more than 8 years ago | (#14277147)

SP2 is such a necesity they should have made a one time exception.
When you start making exceptions like that, You send a message to (clueless)pirates that using an illegal copy is ok.
Those with even half of a clue know how to fly under the radar.

Re:Because Piracy Abound (2, Informative)

Bad Ad (729117) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276471)

while on the windows update site tools -> manage addons and disable the genuine advantage tool control. then restart browser and you can update all you like.

Not Quite (1)

Craig Davison (37723) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276487)

Once you install SP2, security updates are available to everyone through Automatic Updates (configure through the My Computer properties pane). However, the Windows Update website, which lets you install individual security patches, updated hardware drivers, and other software is only available if your computer passes the Windows Genuine Advantage check.

Re:Because Piracy Abound (1)

ThinkFr33ly (902481) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276518)

Windows Update does not refuse security related updates for non-authentic copies of Windows.

It is only optional updates, as well as other tools and support utilities.

Right from Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] : "Security updates that address software vulnerabilities are available to all Windows users, with or without WGA validation".

Re:Because Piracy Abound (1)

blincoln (592401) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276724)

Windows Update does not refuse security related updates for non-authentic copies of Windows.

However, SP2 itself will not install on pirated copies of Windows.

I tried putting SP2 on one of my neighbours' computers, and it refused because it knew the serial number was one used by pirates.

If you can't install SP2, you can't have all of the up-to-date security. So the GP is correct.

Re:Because Piracy Abound (2, Informative)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 8 years ago | (#14277068)

Microsoft wrote a page describing how to change to a valid serial number

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=328874 [microsoft.com]

You still have to Google for a keygen to get that valid serial number though.

Re:Because Piracy Abound (1)

sam0737 (648914) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276797)

Put aside the piracy problem / genuine check problem...Does they count them in? They may be just counting the ratio of genuine copies sold VS SP2 downloaded or installed?

Upgrading SP2 (4, Insightful)

chroma (33185) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276263)

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that it's a lot of trouble to upgrade to SP2?

I recently had to re-install XP on a laptop that came with SP1. It took about 4 cycles of going to the Windows Update site, getting it to install the patches, and rebooting. It was over an hour before I was done. I have a hard time imagining regular users wanting to do this. MS needs to change their update process so that it can be done all at once.

Re:Upgrading SP2 (1)

kuzb (724081) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276296)

Every SP2 installation I've ever done has been a straight A -> B experience. you install it, it works. If your system is damaged to begin with, or has faulty hardware, your problems may be stemming from something else.

Re:Upgrading SP2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276354)

What does having to fudge about with Windows Update wanting to install a million patches before you can install SP2 have to do with a damaged system or faultly hardware?

Re:Upgrading SP2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276531)

Dude, why use the net and MS site if you do more than one a week do what I do, burn it onto a DVD/CD. I keep SP1 and SP2 right here, shove it in the machine, run it there. Especially useful if the user has a dialup modem still !!

Re:Upgrading SP2 (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276692)

In my experience, once SP2 is installed, you should only have to install the Windows Installer, which requires a reboot, and then the remaining patches, which also requires a reboot. Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but if you had to go through multiple reboots just to get to the point where you could install SP2, then you are probably doing something wrong. I have SP2 slipstreamed into my copy of XP which does make things easier. After I install Windows with SP2, there are usually only 2 reboots (Windows Installer, remaining patches) required to finish updating.

From what I have seen, patching for regular users is easy. All they have to do is make sure Automatic Updates are enabled (which it should be by default, especially from the notifications you get after installing SP2) click on the reminder when patches are available, click next, and then allow for a reboot when it is finished. My dad is not good on computers at all, and complains of being dislexic when it comes to typing, yet he is still able to patch his system when updates become available.

Re:Upgrading SP2 (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276872)

MS needs to change their update process so that it can be done all at once.

They did. Just upgrade to SP2 to get the better process.

Re:Upgrading SP2 (1)

ynohoo (234463) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276956)

Worse, it killed my DVD drive. I just ripped SP2 out again, the DVD drive comes back. Like a lot of others, I said forget it.

that's a lot of trouble? (1)

YesIAmAScript (886271) | more than 8 years ago | (#14277116)

Selecting "update" and then "restart" 4 times is a lot of trouble?

Especially because if they could have done 1 step each week over 4 weeks and still have been upgraded by now.

I think the comments about the piracy checks preventing them are more on-track.

Surrounded by a thin, thin, thin, 16mm shell (1)

Eric Smith (4379) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276272)

But inside, there's a new batch of tasty exploits every week.

Oh, they installed it... (2, Insightful)

TheOtherAgentM (700696) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276275)

But they couldn't boot back into Windows afterwards, or they couldn't get back online. That's why they're not reporting SP2 users.

Re:Oh, they installed it... (0, Troll)

pdpTrojan (454023) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276297)

OMG!! Please bless us with more of your brilliant postings! You are a brilliant human being.

Re:Oh, they installed it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276915)

To Me, Nothingness is ...

Microsoft Windows Update website when I reload Windows with my 2001-2002 original RTM disks or images.
Null.
Void.
All of the above.

Prerequisite Cliches (0, Offtopic)

Kevin108 (760520) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276287)

In Soviet Russia, Service Pack 2 uses YOU!

Re:Prerequisite Cliches (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276543)

"In Soviet Russia, Service Pack 2 uses YOU!"

Uhh....Good try, but you are thinking of windows, and it uses everyone, not just those in Soviet Russia.

OMG! Typical Slashdot troll (0, Troll)

jt2377 (933506) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276301)

wow! MS get blame for everything here no matter what. damn if MS don't release patch/service pack and damn if MS did. no pleasing the Linux/OSS/slashdot tards here. We need more MS bashing!!!! F'ck MS insecure software 'cause we are so l33t we need no stinking patch/service pack. It's all MS falut that our systems got pawned. ....*insert typical slashdot comment here*...

Re:OMG! Typical Slashdot troll (1)

John Nowak (872479) | more than 8 years ago | (#14277069)

The fact that bothers people is not that they did or didn't release a service pack, but that it needed one so badly to begin with.

just SP2? (3, Informative)

theheff (894014) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276302)

There are over 40 critical updates that have come out since SP2... SP2 only goes so far in protection. I've used "broadband" in other countries... updating to SP2 plus all critical updates would take AGES. They'd be better off just disabling services in services.msc and using what they have now behind a hardware firewall.

Re:just SP2? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276341)

Ages? You can set the damn thing to autoupdate at night, leave the computer on, and by morning the OS will be up to date regardless of connection speed.

Re:just SP2? (2, Informative)

Changa_MC (827317) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276526)

Except that you must reboot several times to get all the patches from SP1 all the way to SP2. It's not a one step process that you can walk away from.

Re:just SP2? (1)

theheff (894014) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276958)

Yes, ages. In many countries they use computers from the 90's, paired with "broadband" that is only about twice the speed of dialup. "Ages" is an appropriate term.

XP SP2 is malware (3, Funny)

cejones (574416) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276319)

I had a lovely working PC card that read all my digital camera memory cards... Worked like a charm with XP SP1. Installed SP2. Reader stopped working... Wouldn't recognize any memory card. Called SanDisk, the maker of the PC card.. They said they had reports of SP2 breaking the functionality of the card. It was a Microsoft problem. One of the tech guys at SanDisk told me that it is an unwritten rule to avoid all even numbers Microsoft Service Packs. Wish I knew that one before I installed it. The PC Card still doesn't work and so I hope it magically starts working with SP3... So I wouldn't doubt SP2 usage is low... That is what MS gets for breaking the way things work...

Re:XP SP2 is malware (2, Funny)

Txiasaeia (581598) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276331)

SP2's broken a few old Win16 apps of mine as well. Why upgrade to SP2 when SP1 is terrific?

Re:XP SP2 is malware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276436)

One of the tech guys at SanDisk told me that it is an unwritten rule to avoid all even numbers Microsoft Service Packs.

You are not a true geek. You sound like the kind of fuckup who works in a telemarketing dept or something. Reading between the lines of your post is easy, you are an end user through and through. Get off my internets.

Re:XP SP2 is malware (1)

st1d (218383) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276719)

>>You are not a true geek. You sound like the kind of fuckup who works in a telemarketing dept or something. Reading between the lines of your post is easy, you are an end user through and through. Get off my internets.

Funny...for an end user. :)

Re:XP SP2 is malware (1)

rainman_bc (735332) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276514)

it is an unwritten rule to avoid all even numbers Microsoft Service Packs.

No, you should apply patches and security updates when there's a full moon out, and make sure you say seven hail mary's (maries??? marys???) :)

Re:XP SP2 is malware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276731)

or try having 7 Bloody Mary's before the you patch. It is known to fix a lot of other things as well !

Hmmm. (1)

jd (1658) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276904)

Those kinds of superstitions (avoid all products that have a version number that ends in .0) are based on the premise that certain releases are more likely to be rushed than others, so are more likely to have bugs. In reality, any release is as likely to be rushed as any other, any product that is rushed has a raised probability of having defects, and any defect - however small - can (in principle) be totally lethal to a computer program.


If you look at Microsoft's scorecard for service packs, sure, you can find even-numbered ones that locked systems solid. You can find odd-numbered ones that did that, too. The only method I can suggest for safely installing a service pack is to wait until someone publishes a regression test on that SP on the machine you use with the hardware you have. The next-best is to find a combination of tests which cover the arrangement, but that's not as good, as interactions between components can be critical.


The third option is to make extensive backups, then try installing the service pack. If it doesn't work, restore from backup. The problem with this is that there are rare bugs that cause actual hardware damage. I only recall reports of such damage for one Windows service pack, but I am definitely unhappy about the fact that there are any such reports at all. It is for that reason I relegate this to being a third option, because (IMHO) it is preferable to let someone else fry their computer - doubly so as Microsoft won't take responsibility and manufacturer warranties are usually voided if you change the system at all (such as installing service packs).

Re:Hmmm. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14277071)

"The problem with this is that there are rare bugs that cause actual hardware damage."

BS, software is not going to damage your hardware. There is a chance that it might mess up some drivers or some such, of course, but it can't touch the actual hardware.

Re:Hmmm. (1)

PlusFiveTroll (754249) | more than 8 years ago | (#14277094)

BS, software is not going to damage your hardware. There is a chance that it might mess up some drivers or some such, of course, but it can't touch the actual hardware.

Ever flash a bios? Ever had it go wrong?

Re:XP SP2 is malware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14277026)

"One of the tech guys at SanDisk told me that it is an unwritten rule to avoid all even numbers Microsoft Service Packs."

Yeah... also avoid patches released during a full moon and any updates that may have a 13 in the version number. You can fix your current problem with SP2 by dunking your computer in holy water while doing an online windows update, that should get it to recognize your card again.....don't worry, the tooth fairy told me about this fix, so it is leggit.

Installing SP2 is easy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276326)

If you can install Linux (which I've tried about 20 times with no success.. something always is never found), installing SP2 is a breeze. I own 3 legal copies of windows xp (1 MCE 2k5), all of which are upgraded to SP2. Nothing broke, worked on the first try.

The only thing that took any time was the download.

First Perception Ruined It (1)

ScottCooperDotNet (929575) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276425)

I imagine XPSP2, like the new XBox's release issues, has set both items as "bad" to the majority of late adopters. For all the systems that worked fine after installing SP2, there were a handful that would not work with SP2 without a BIOS upgrade. Guess which ones left the impression.

There are people still a year later who want to avoid it at all costs, so much so they have used to the HOSTS file to block Microsoft.com.

Department (1)

LittleLebowskiUrbanA (619114) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276447)

From the software pirates avoid "Microsoft Genuine Advantage" Windows piracy detection dept.

Probably lack of bandwidth or update isn't intuiti (1)

Via_Patrino (702161) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276541)

Probably lack of bandwidth or Microsoft Windows update isn't intuitive enough.

People abroad don't have the same kind of connection of those in developed countries, and MS Windows XP SP2 is big.

Same people don't have the same amount of information from the press, about viruses, worms and other security menances. Because only a small percentage of the population have computers. So the people aren't aware of those menances and don't care about them.

DRM also sucks, just after I installed MS Windows XP I tried to update several times and everyone I was getting an incompreensive error that didn't informed me the cause of the problem.

I didn't know what to do so I tried to register to see if that was the cause. I registered MS Windows and it updated on the first try, but too late, in the meantime it already got viruses and had to reinstall it.

woohoo! (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276551)

more bots for me!

No kidding. (4, Informative)

Trillan (597339) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276662)

I spent six months in a third world country. There are two major reasons why XP SP2 wasn't in use there:

1. The license restrictions were tighter than plain XP,
2. It required over a day to download.

Heck, the guy who came over to install my DSL told me not to install it. Naturally, I didn't listen...

Disappointed.. (2, Funny)

SeanMon (929653) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276695)

"provide a hardened shell around the operating system but the low upgrade levels remains a disappointment."

Damn user error! You have to do work to get a safe system!

I'll oversea you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276700)

Overseas, you mean, like, in the USA?

"Hardened shell" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276713)

Don't they realise that this expression gives a very bad picture about their OS?

Like in "something wrapped around a rotten core to keep it working just a bit longer"?

It boggles the mind... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276721)

"Customers are telling us that the market is not doing a good enough job of preventing the sophisticated malware attacks, and we decided to make our own investments to satisfy those needs," McKee said.
Yeah, cause that's obviously a better way to go about it then making the initial investments to prevent any kind of malware attacks, by, y'know, just writing high quality software...

SP2 got bad rep (4, Informative)

Jarnis (266190) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276732)

There is a very very simple reason.

I work at PC repairs. I see SP2less computers every day. MOST of them have legal copy of windows(!)

The reason why SP2 uptake is slow, is that when it was released, some people with virus/spyware-ridden computers just went and installed it - and their installation promptly blew up, since Microsoft for some odd reason didn't test their upgrade with every piece of malware out there.

So, the 'common wisdom' made rounds with lots and lots of clueless lusers; "Don't install SP2, it will just mess up your system and make you reinstall everything". Even *I* considered the upgrade hazardous during the first few weeks due to couple of blowups I'd seen.

Only thru trial and error (on customer's computers :) ) I quickly figured out when SP2 blows up and when it doesnt. 99.99% of installations will go just fine as long as the computer is first cleaned of all the spyware and viruses, and you make sure that drivers are at least in the ballpark of being up to date. Skip those steps, and there is a very real risk that you get to reinstall everything (or, at least, get to do a repair install with a CD that has SP2 slipstreamed into it).

Now if just one person tells 10 friends how his computer got all messed up due to SP2 (when it reality it was already mucked up by ten cubic miles of spyware), those ten will tell horror stories to 10 of their friends how they heard that SP2 is bad.

Boom, SP2 adoption rate takes a huge broadside hit.

I *still* need to reassure people who bring their computer in for repairs that installing SP2 is not only a good idea, but almost downright required if you plan on keeping your system connected to the internet. Standard operating procedure is to install all windows updates when fixing any problem, be it spyware, viruses or plain old hardware problem - yet I still sometimes get calls after the fact to the tune of 'how did you get SP2 installed? I thought it'd just mess up my computer so I was too afraid to try', while in fact there was zero reason why the user should've not installed it.

Now pirate copies are another story; Yes, I see those very commonly as well.

They fall into a couple of categories;

- Clueful people who know what they are doing (99% of these are computers with real hardware faults). They have SP2 and all updates installed, and windows update is working fine, with WGA circumvented. They are aware that MS 'pirate blocks' are not stopping anyone who knows how to use Google and can read.

In these cases there is no problem. Never was.

- Clueless idiots who "got my copy from a friend". Some have The Old Version with no SPs, and then whine how it never works right and always get viruses. Most have SP1, but havent' installed SP2 because they've "heard that it can't be installed" - when in reality it would work just fine. Most of these turn around and buy a genuine copy in case their system needs a full reinstall due to malware infestation so bad it can't be completely cleaned up within sane number of expensive techie hours.

For those I can't really go and install the SP2, as company policy says that any OS issues related to pirate copies are customers problem. Sure, I can clean up malware assuming it doesn't require a reinstall, and I can drop in any stuff the automatic update gives, but generally I don't even bother trying SP2.

Now, Microsoft's 'anti piracy measures' have definitely caused them to sell more legal copies to the clueless idiots who 'trusted their friend to install a free copy', and then got burned by the Windows Update and/or SP2 install key blacklists. However, as long as their system worked, they really don't care if its updated or not. I've seen systems where the damn computer contained all the financial stuff of a small company, NO BACKUPS, with system full of viruses and other crap to the point when it no longer boots - and the owner didn't care it hadn't been updated. He was just pissed that the computer stopped working, and was looking for a quick magic fix to get it working again.

People are just, in general, clueless about this stuff. Unless you shove it down their throats like today's SP2 and onwards windows does (automatically updating), most people don't care about updates until there is a concrete problem that totally hoses their system up.

It broke our in-house apps that's why (1)

gelfling (6534) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276759)

It's still not recommended or supported as an upgrade in house though it is now released and supported on initial build.

Actually, they mostly have SP2 installed. (2, Insightful)

WhiteWolf666 (145211) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276760)

Most Windows users I have seen, especially overseas, tend to wipe and re-install from the latest and greatest pirate slipstream whenever their installation gets foobar'd.

I recently helped someone with an install, one of these pirate CDs. She even had a regular license for XP, but decided to go with the pirate disk.

Why?

Because it had SP2 slipstreamed in, a variety of other updates, product activation disabled, WinRar included, Acrobat reader included, Sun's Java included, Firefox, and Macromedia Flash included.

I was impressed. It was almost as functional as a Linux install. No Office suite, or any of the other stuff that comes with Linux, but still, much, much better than a standard Windows install, far less updating to do, and only took about an hour.

It's not as easy as a Linux install; but its way better than the normal install cycle.

The Difference Between Balmer-Gates & Me (1)

BoRegardless (721219) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276773)

I reinstall myself, so I get a new hard drive, do Dell's recommendations and update EVERYTHING, so BIOS, etc etc (well over a dozen downloads), Windows Install, Update, MSOffice updates (god how come so many), applications galore. It only took me 22 hours.

Balmer just screams "Get me a new box that works NOW or I rip your guts out and then you are fired."

I don't believe Gates and Balmer maintain their own hardware & OS, and have no clue the amount of time is involved on the Wintel side.

Bo

Overseas? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276802)

Which overseas? Japan? US? Australia?

The Real Story!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276809)

I have read a good number of the posts on this topic and no one has nailed the real problem.

The problem is that Microsoft released a HALF BAKED product!!! Now, they keep scratching their heads wondering why people aren't installing the new and improved "Half Baked" Service Pack. The only solution I can see is a class action Law Suite against Microsoft for releasing such a defective product!!! Maybe then, their next release will be done properly!!

Mod me down as troll if you like but I have only stated the truth about Microsofts product.

Microsoft should blame SP2's poor launch (1)

torxic (939488) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276859)

Well, for one, i live in Singapore (no, it's not in China!) and is guilty of being SP2less. But it's not because of ignorance or complacency in my case. I have downloaded it before, and have installed it. Now all is good, until i rebooted. No, not really. I guess i should say, "until i tried to reboot". The damn thing just wouldnt boot. I tried everything from jumper reset to good old babaric bashing. Then i did a check online and i found my asnwer -- SP2 was incompatible with several MotherBoards. Now that's fcuked. What kinda beta testing/ QA did Microsoft carry out. It wasn't just one brand of motherboard but almost every HT-enabled motherboard (If my memory did not fail me, yes that was the cause). So after a painfully boring reinstallation, i grabbed the latest BIOs which was said to fix the problem. So i did a BIOs flash and shit happened, again. The flashing failed and killed the motherboard. I had to do a RMA for the motherboard which wasn't a fast thing. Now, i pretty much don't give a shit about SP2 anymore. Honestly, a dead motherboard or the possibility of being infected, which would you choose? P.S. i have yet got infected by any worms or spyware without SP2.

Why bother? (1)

OK PC (857190) | more than 8 years ago | (#14276885)

Seriously my computer seems to work fine on just sp1, why go through the hassle of upgrading when there is no obvious benefit. I reckon this is the thinking of a lot of people. Plus having tried computers with sp2, the sheer amount of notification bubbles it uses would drive me insane!

Re:Why bother? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14276995)

Why bother not running ie 4 on a win95 system? It works fine. That's the stupidity of your post.

Well... (1)

lord_sarpedon (917201) | more than 8 years ago | (#14277054)

Perhaps in that case it is a security slum-it. I know, I amaze even myself.

Upset? boo hoo... (1)

davidsyes (765062) | more than 8 years ago | (#14277092)

I think ms is upset NOT solely over the licensing and piracy and malware issues surrounding the lack up uptake/upgrading.

What about TurboLinux? What about Mandriva, RH, Novell Suse? Hell, with all the rigmarole and trepidation around arduous upgrading or being caught wihth illegit copies, there must (I think) be some more silent uptake up Linux (GNU/Linux, if you prefer).

For ms, this can't be GOOD.

Consider that in China alone, some 176,000 computers (See Linux Format, current or one of the previous 3 issues...) in just ONE city are being deployed to schools, and Red Flag or SOME other distro of Linux will go on them. Moreover, since IBM AND Dell lost out in the bidding to supply (read: SELL) hardware, that's less hard-coding of authentic product IDs to track or claim for Wall Street/Nikkei/HangSeng (sp?).

Now, couple that with the Italian and French cities (and all the others... pick your nation--and SMILE), ms has got to be worried. LTSP, virtualization/Virtual Machine, VMWare, Win4Lin, WINE, CodeWeavers and others must be causing nightmares for ballmer and his chair-throwing supporters.

SP2 adoption is bad now? Wait till Vista! (1)

clmensch (92222) | more than 8 years ago | (#14277133)

Between the hardware requirements and lack of compelling features, I think Microsoft is gonna find an even slower adoption rate of Vista overseas when it finally launches.
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