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360 Has Best Launch Lineup Ever?

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the so-sayeth-the-cueball dept.

XBox (Games) 204

J. Allard had a chat with Edge magazine about the launch lineup of the Xbox 360, and makes the claim that they have the best launch lineup ever associated with a console. He also talks about the overall vision they had for the launch, and how well their expectations are being met. From the article: "I think it's pretty much spot on. I spoke with someone who was very involved in the planning about three years ago - he came over for about five minutes to drop something off and ended up spending three hours looking at all the capabilities of the machine, and he said, 'Son of a gun, if you guys didn't do 95 per cent of the original vision of the machine!' And I looked at him and said, 'Well, what was the other five per cent, what did we drop?' and he said, 'I don't know. I couldn't find it!'"

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not saying much (3, Insightful)

ThePepe (775625) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291573)

Well that certainly doesnt say much for the previous consoles' release lineups.

"Launch Lineup" includes titles not available (5, Informative)

Sancho (17056) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291578)

at launch. That's the only reason they can make this claim without being laughed out of the universe.

Some story awhile back detailed this and made the example of "Oblivion" as a launch title, even though it won't be available until 2006.

Spin, spin, spin....

Re:"Launch Lineup" includes titles not available (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14291838)

And Oblivion will look better and be better on people's pcs.

And the best selling game on the Dreamcast 360 is fucking CoD2 - a game everyone can play a better version of at home with mouse and keyboard on mid-range pcs without all the hideous jaggies the 360 version has. And you aren't forced to pay just play online with your pc like microsoft forces you to witht the 360.

No wonder no one but foaming at the mouth xbox fanatics give a shit about the 360.

Re:"Launch Lineup" includes titles not available (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14292260)

You still haven't told us how much you're getting paid for this.

Re:"Launch Lineup" includes titles not available (2, Funny)

Gogo0 (877020) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292026)

No, no -its okay.

MS has stated before that their "launch window" is 14-weeks long. So anything between Nov 20 to about February 18 is available at "launch"!

Really, had they not defined "launch", I would have erroneously assumed that it meant "when it is released".

It isnt spin, theyre just making their own rules. Wow, they really kick ass with their own rules!

Re:"Launch Lineup" includes titles not available (1)

Azarael (896715) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292694)

Oblivion doesn't ship until febuary 20th according to eb, so it still won't be a launch title! That's also assuming that there are no delays getting the product out there.

Re:"Launch Lineup" includes titles not available (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14293093)

Ummm yeah, 15 weeks...15 weeks long. Yeah...I meant 15 weeks long. Thats the ticket!

And yet, no blockbuster games for 2005 (3, Funny)

Torgo's Pizza (547926) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291582)

At least, that's what I read just a few stories down. Best launch lineup ever or the one of the worst years for games. Time to curl up into a little ball and wait it out until 2006.

Re:And yet, no blockbuster games for 2005 (1)

Firehawke (50498) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291964)

Yeah, I think the lineup is almost as bad as the Nintendo DS launch was and they seem to think it's the best thing since sliced cheese.

My immediate reaction was to say that the NES or SNES had better launch line-ups: I seem to remember U.N. Squadron, Super R-Type, Gradius 3, and Actraiser being in the launch, with Final Fantasy 4 maybe a month or two down the road for SNES. Hell, many of the best SNES titles were first-generation titles dating at launch or first year.

Re:And yet, no blockbuster games for 2005 (1)

damsa (840364) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292549)

That makes more sense because SNES and NES were released in Japan first, whereas the DS and the Xbox 360 were launched in North America first. So you couldn't just port some Japanese game for the North American market. Also the DS and the 360 like the PS2 is backwards compatible so they didn't really good launch titles as long as you could play your older games.

No. (5, Insightful)

vertinox (846076) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291596)

We'll reserve the best launch linup for NES "Duckhunt/Mario" combo catridge.

Remember the times when consoles would come with a game that was good enough to play for very very long time before buying a new game?

Re:No. (1)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291626)

I got the Nintendo with Nintendo Power magazine and Dragon Warrior together from Santa. I probably spent 3 or 4 months worth of afternoons alone on that single game.

Re:No. (2, Interesting)

wilgibson (933961) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291795)

Man that promotion was great. I think I was 7 when my parents got me the NP subscription with Dragon Warrior. And, I also spent around 4 months on the game. I even remember getting the shit scared out of me when I defeated the Dragon Lord and he had a second form... good times, good times!

Re:No. (1)

falcon5768 (629591) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291885)

I credit that promotion with the reason I play RPGs now. Super Mario and Super Mario 3 was great, but DragonWarrior kept me glued for months even AFTER I beat it.

Re:No. (1)

myspys (204685) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291632)

It sounds like you're speaking in tongues.

Times when games were fun to play for a very very long time? Surely you're from outer space?

Tell us about these times, let us dream with you dear sir!

Re:No. (2, Interesting)

Eightyford (893696) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291787)

If you like those old style games than pick up a Gameboy Advance. Advance wars, Fire Emblem, Castlevania...

Re:No. (2, Interesting)

vertinox (846076) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291913)

Strangley enough I own all of those and play on a DS. I was talking more or less about a time when the console would come with a good game... In fact the headliner of the console.

More examples come to mind:

SNES: Super Mario World
Genesis: Sonic the Hedgehog etc etc

Now if you buy a console... It doesn't come with a game nor are most of the other games a killer app so to say. I'll admit that even Nintendo has shied away from this practice. I had to purchase Mario DS seperatley and it wasn't even that great of a first game. Now it appears the DS lineup is maturing and the games really excellent now.

This might be just the way the development cycle works now... Get the console out first and then make the good games 6 months down the road.

Re:No. (1)

Toby_Tyke (797359) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292793)

Interestingly enough, nintindo now do just that with the DS. You can now buy a DS with either Mario Kart or Nintendogs bundled.

Re:No. (1)

Zediker (885207) | more than 8 years ago | (#14293013)

True, but back in the day you didnt have to pay extra for the game.

Re:No. (1)

PeterFranks (523503) | more than 8 years ago | (#14293015)

I also just bought a Gamecube for my little brother bundled with Mario Party 7. I think they make a Pokemon Gamecube bundle and some others. They are still $99, and the game is $50 alone.

I think this idea is starting to come back, by Nintendo at any rate. And I think it's working, as I had to go to a few stores to find a Gamecube at all.

Re:No. (1)

chigun (770799) | more than 8 years ago | (#14293057)

At launch, the Sega Genesis came with Altered Beast. At the time, Altered Beast was a lot of fun AND it separated the Genesis from the SNES as the more "adult" system of the two.

ALSO, the Genesis (or was it the Master System?) came preloaded with a game that was hardwired into the machine as an easter egg. It was a little maze game. I liked it. I'm not sure if it even had a name.

Re:No. (1)

RevAaron (125240) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291946)

In response to your .sig, which reads: "E-Prime is great!"

Perhaps you mean "I percieve E-Prime to be a great thing?" Or, maybe ... that's the JOKE!

Re:No. (1)

mattACK (90482) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292922)

Sorry bub, that combo cartridge wasn't available at launch. Hope you enjoyed Gyromite though.

That came later.

Sure (1)

metalmario (717434) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291613)

The best XBox Launch Lineup Ever. Still it didn't have a single game I would have liked to play.

Wow (5, Insightful)

nocent (71113) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291627)

News flash! Microsoft executive claims Microsoft product has best launch ever!

And they met their own expectations -- sort of! (1)

ianscot (591483) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292230)

The real beauty in this set of quotes has to be the exchange with "someone who was very involved in the planning about three years ago":
'Son of a gun, if you guys didn't do 95 per cent of the original vision of the machine!' And I looked at him and said, 'Well, what was the other five per cent, what did we drop?' and he said, 'I don't know. I couldn't find it!'

Gee whiz! It's nice to know the people involved in XBox planning were so very, very up on their math skills. Now go out there and give the team 120 percent, boys!

Note to Microsoft Execs: If you laid out your product plan three years back and then plodded along and hit this percentage (whatever it was) of your goals, that's a perfect example of this not being "a machine built around a philosophy, not a set of tech specs." Your vision didn't change a bit in three years, and you're claiming to break new philosophical ground? I don't see the evidence of anything at all new in your final product, or in the release lineup you're puffing up here.

One comparison that comes to mind is Apple and the intel choice. Jobs had a black ops group compiling OS X on the other chips for years in advance, so they had the option around. Inside of six months after making the decision, we've got a spate of rumors about new laptops and consumer machines next month. Apple will turn its entire product line over to new chips in the time it took MS to spiff the XBox's stats for "much more of the same." Pretty dramatic contrast.

Hmmm (1)

Strell (877448) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291634)

I wonder if he's heard the UK developers telling people "Psst...buy the Xbox version of any game that's also on the 360."

I'm sure he'll turn around and whiplash me with whatever cool hipster gadget he has on him. Ipod with custom 360 skins or something. That's the powar of teh ALLARDz, yo,

Still no Ultramix DDR support! (3, Interesting)

tepp (131345) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291646)

Yawn. Wake me up when there is a single game a female gamer would like to play. Then MAYBE I'll consider buying one.

I'm still furious that it isn't even backwards compatable with Ultramix 2 or Ultramix 3 which just came out!

How hard is it to be backwards compatable with a simple dancing game?

At least when I buy the PS3 I can play all my DDR games on it the first day!

Whoa! A chick gamer? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14291676)

Are you, uh, hot?

Re:Still no Ultramix DDR support! (2, Informative)

the computer guy nex (916959) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291685)

"Yawn. Wake me up when there is a single game a female gamer would like to play. Then MAYBE I'll consider buying one."

Kameo. The best 360 launch title is also a great one for female gamers.

Re:Still no Ultramix DDR support! (1)

robson (60067) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291807)

Kameo. The best 360 launch title is also a great one for female gamers.

Having played Kameo, I'm not sure I agree -- just because it features a female protagonist, that doesn't mean it's a game female gamers will enjoy.

Bah. (1, Insightful)

Inoshiro (71693) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291810)

I didn't like it the first time when it was called Starfox Adventures, why would I like it with different textures?

Re:Still no Ultramix DDR support! (1)

Dan Ost (415913) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291976)

We played the Kameo demo at CompUSA one afternoon. The consensus was "Pretty, but no fun".

It's a shame that good graphics and good playability are a difficult combination to find in modern gaming.

Re:Still no Ultramix DDR support! (1)

Hitto (913085) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292968)

I agree, Kameo is kind of pretty, but not really impressive, and the demo played out like un-fun shit.
Yeah, it's only a demo, I will hear from the fanbois. Well, the demo failed, as it didn't convince me to get an XboX THREE-SEXXXTREEEEME!!!1!

I'm still waiting for my Lightsaber game on the Revolution ;)

Re:Still no Ultramix DDR support! (1)

ncmusic (31531) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291996)

At least when I buy the PS3 I can play all my DDR games on it the first day!

This is pure speculation (wishful thinking). I'll believe 100% reverse compatibility when I see it. They weren't able to do it with the PS2 and I don't think they'll do it with the PS3 either. And why would you buy a PS3 just to play your PS2 games?

Re:Still no Ultramix DDR support! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14292382)

At least with the PS2 they shot for 100% backwards compatability and were pretty successful. I haven't watched teh non-compatable list very closely but the last time I looked the list of non compatable PS1 (~40) games was shorter than the list of X-box1 games that are "compatable" for the 360. (Don't you need the HDD for backwards compatability?)

Re:Still no Ultramix DDR support! (2, Insightful)

dtfarmer (548183) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292887)

I'll believe 100% reverse compatibility when I see it. They weren't able to do it with the PS2 and I don't think they'll do it with the PS3 either.

They did it a hell of a lot more successfully than MS has - 99.5% backward compatibility is good enough, especially when compared to ~25% compatibility (based on about 200 of 800 releases - i think those are close for US release numbers) where titles keep coming and going with promises of 100% compatibility.

Now if Sony does the same thing with PS3, I will be the first to criticize them. And I hope MS does eventually get close to 99% compatibility - so I can chuck my xbox and put a 360 in its place.

And why would you buy a PS3 just to play your PS2 games?

No one buys a PS3 just to play their PS2 games. Quit being dramatic. They buy the PS3 so they can play new games, but they want to finish their PS2 games, or they may have a favorite that they want to keep replaying. And they do not want extra consoles hooked up in order to do so, if at all possible. They want to just replace the PS2, and play everything on the PS3 - new games as well as old.

Of course, you know this - but being a fanboy, you want to harp on .5% incompatibility like it's even comparable to MS's incompatibility rate, and denigrate someone who wants to continue playing older games even when newer ones are out. Maybe she likes some of the songs in particular versions of DDR, and since they change each release, she won't be able to dance to those songs in the PS3 DDR release, but if she can just pop the old PS2 DDR Extreme in the new PS3, viola! (or the Ultramix 2 in the 360, same diff.)

Re:Still no Ultramix DDR support! (2, Funny)

Headcase88 (828620) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292465)

"Look, those arrows are a lot harder to render than it looks, leave us alone!" -- Microsoft rep.

Re:Still no Ultramix DDR support! (1)

Fred Or Alive (738779) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292518)

I haven't a clue why DDR doesn't work yet, it doesn't seem that technically troublesome (at least Dancing Stage Unleashed[1] doesn't). It'll probably turn up in an update at some point of course. But the entire backwards compatibility seems rushed, its like the suddenly realised that "backwards compatibility" was something games wanted (and the PS3 and Revolution both claim they will deliver), so they suddenly rushed to implement this half-assed emulator based system, which gives use a small number of games, and a promise that more will be added in updates.

But with the Xbox 360 you will have a problem that even if DDR is compatible, the console doesn't have any Xbox 1 controller ports, so you won't be able to use an Xbox dance may (unless a USB->Xbox converter would work). I'd guess stuff like Steel Battalion and light gun games are similarly screwed. Yay for Microsoft!

The same might be true of the PlayStation 3, the prototype designs Sony have shown off don't seem to have any PlayStation 1 / 2 controller ports either, so again your old dance mat will probably be useless again. Yay for Sony!

[1] I think it's equivelant to Dance Dance Revolution Ultramix (1), but Konami's naming schemes for their rhythm / action games are just designed to confuse people IMO.

Re:Still no Ultramix DDR support! (1)

Retroneous (879615) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292729)

Wow.

So female gamers won't like to play Project Gotham 3? Call of Duty 2? Kameo? Condemned? Ridge Racer 6?

Hang on. If that's the case, why are you even bothering to look at the launch lineup in the first place? Oh, that's right. Female gamers only like dancing games, games that involve ridiculous peripherals and games that make them feel like a popstar!

I bet Microsoft is really kicking itself for missing that heavy spending target audience. Or not. Since it knows that female gamers aren't that ridiculously closed minded.

Really. "It's crap, I can't play Ultramix!"

Wow. (2, Funny)

aspjunkie (265714) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291649)

Nothing beats a great "Launch Linup".

Go Spellcheck!

Re:Wow. (1)

Geno Z Heinlein (659438) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291888)

Nothing beats a great "Launch Linup".

Well, everyone knows that Slashdot prefers the Linup operating system.

Re:Wow. (1)

EMeta (860558) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292270)

Nothing beats a great "Launch Linup".

Go Spellcheck!

Yes, it was supposed to read "Launch Limp."

This won't go over well on slashdot (3, Interesting)

the computer guy nex (916959) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291657)

..but this is spot on.

Most of the release titles were sequels of solid games (COD, Perfect Dark, EA sports games). These are phenominal launch titles because they are easier to create and already have a fan base.

Case in point: The best release title is Kameo. It is the best adventure game ever to be released with a console spare Mario 64. It doesn't get the press it deserves because it isn't a sequel.

My local Best Buy had every 360 claimed by 6PM on Saturday night (40 people in line), when there wasn't even 40 in line on the launch day.

Re:This won't go over well on slashdot (2, Insightful)

Ender Ryan (79406) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291714)

That is utterly laughable to anyone who's been a gamer for more than... I'll grant 4 years, at the most.

Re:This won't go over well on slashdot (3, Funny)

steveo777 (183629) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292098)

Yeah, a bit offtopic, but playing Halo doesn't make you a 'gamer' any more than eating a taco makes you a mexican.

Re:This won't go over well on slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14291764)

Thanks for illustrating what a bunch of pathetic losers make up the Dreamcast/Xbox/360 demographic.

Too bad for Microsoft there are only 5-12 million of you poor fucks. Not enough to support a console without a huge amount of monopoly generated life support cash.

What the fuck are you clowns going to do when Microsoft pulls the plug on your turd of a console next year? Jump on the Phantom bandwagon? Mass suicides?

Re:This won't go over well on slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14292138)

What the fuck are you talking about you idiot? The Dreamcast had more original and playable titles than consoles that lasted this whole generation. And why lump DC owners in with the Xbox demographic? Many DC owners boycotted the Xbox because it "stole" an exclusive on Shenmue 2 in the US.

Why do you go back to playing the annually updated sports sequels that EA craps out for undiscerning mass market gamers such as yourself.

Re:This won't go over well on slashdot (4, Insightful)

badasscat (563442) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292034)

Most of the release titles were sequels of solid games (COD, Perfect Dark, EA sports games). These are phenominal launch titles because they are easier to create and already have a fan base.

So what you're saying is that this launch features a bunch of generic, lowest-common-demoninator sequels that appeal to people who have already played the previous versions.

This is a good launch lineup? At best, it will appeal to some of those who already own Xboxes. It will not initiate any interest in anyone beyond that. This is the problem when you have a launch lineup that's mainly a bunch of sports games and sequels.

Good launches always have at least one "must-have" game that shows off what the new system is capable of and/or offers a new gameplay experience. They also have to have most of the popular genres represented. The Xbox 360 has most genres represented (though it's missing a few important ones, like fighting games and RPG's), but it has no must-haves whatsoever. There is nothing in the 360's launch lineup that makes me go "wow! I've never seen anything that cool before, and I have to have it." There's no equivalent to Super Mario or Soul Calibur or even the original Ridge Racer in there (no, RR6 just doesn't carry the same cachet). MS obviously thinks there is in PD0 and CoD2, but these are sequels - they are basically graphical upgrades to previous games that a lot of people have already played. They may have a few gameplay tweaks but the core gameplay is nothing we haven't seen before.

I'd say the 360 launch lineup is middling. It's not the worst ever (go look up something like the Intellivision launch lineup), but there have been better ones, including the PS2, PS1, Coleco Vision, NES, SNES, Game Boy, N64, and Dreamcast. Not all of these systems had the same quantity as the Xbox 360 but they all had at least one game that everybody just had to play, and in some cases they had several.

I don't think the 360 launch lineup will hurt or help the console; I think it will mainly be forgotten about once the next round of games comes out.

Re:This won't go over well on slashdot (1)

blincoln (592401) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292359)

There is nothing in the 360's launch lineup that makes me go "wow! I've never seen anything that cool before, and I have to have it."

Exactly. The 360 launch titles have the same problem as the original Xbox - they're a bunch of mediocre titles that would be the filler games if the console had been out for 1-2 years. The possible exception is PGR3, although not for me. I played PGR once, and while it was pretty, I didn't find it fun at all. At least there's no Azurik this time, but still.

There used to be two "launch window" titles I was interested in - Oblivion, and Chrome Hounds. I'm going to be playing Oblivion on the PC instead, to avoid being nickeled-and-dimed to death by the forced Live component, and one game is not enough to convince me to buy a $400 console.

Besides, there's still plenty of current-gen stuff I haven't gotten around to yet, and now I can get it for 1/3 the price of a 360 game.

Re:This won't go over well on slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14292618)

I'd say the 360 launch lineup is middling. It's not the worst ever (go look up something like the Intellivision launch lineup), but there have been better ones, including the PS2, PS1, Coleco Vision, NES, SNES, Game Boy, N64, and Dreamcast. Not all of these systems had the same quantity as the Xbox 360 but they all had at least one game that everybody just had to play, and in some cases they had several.

I agree one hundred percent. Consoles like the PS1, PS2, and N64 had amazing launch lineups, far eclipsing the Xbox 360. I mean, who didn't rush out to the store immediately to play Battle Arena Toshinden for the PS1? Or Mortal Kombat Ultimate? Those were must have titles, and really carried the PS1 to be the market leader. And the PS2? Oh man! I couldn't wait to get home and play Fantavision and other instant classics like Orphen.

And, of course, there's the N64. What a powerful launch, covering a wide array of genres and styles, "though it's missing a few important ones, like fighting games and RPG's."

Re:This won't go over well on slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14292124)

Hahahahaha. Best release title is Kameo? There have been tons of console launches where the must own title isn't a sequel. For instance, PS2 had SSX. PSP had Lumines. Xbox 360 has Call of Duty 2, not Kameo. Kameo is an average game that just happened to be released at a console launch.

In addition to Kameo, Perfect Dark can be considered an abysmal failure for the amount of money Microsoft spent on acquiring Rare. Call of Duty 2 has trumped Perfect Dark by nearly 2x the sell through rate so far and the reviews on forums (Penny Arcade, Shacknews, etc.) seem to give COD2 much deserved praise.

BTW, most consoles are sold out during the first few weeks of launch. What is new is that Microsoft couldn't even come up with more than 350,000 units. A pathetic number that really begs the question why they didn't stockpile up enough and have a proper launch.

Re:This won't go over well on slashdot (1)

Carbon Copied (909743) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292692)

"Most of the release titles were sequels of solid games (COD, Perfect Dark, EA sports games)."

For sequels read the same game with slight graphic improvement. I wonder how long it will take for people to realise that the EA SPORTS NFL 06, is exactly like EA SPORTS NFL 05 except with a few name changes and A BRAND NEW FEATURE THAT IS GOING TO ROCK YOUR WORLD.(not really)

Microsoft no longer need to hype their shit up (not that it stops them), they've been so effective XBOX owners now generate their own hype and spin that would normally cost millions in advertising. Does it not tell people something that half of the games for a NEXT GENERATION CONSOLE EXTREME, are available on PC's and old gen consoles already? It's not an XBOX 360, its an xbox 1.2, except with better marketing and appearance.

Re:This won't go over well on slashdot (1)

jchenx (267053) | more than 8 years ago | (#14293009)

Good lord, I disagree. I have a 360 and had LOTS of problems with Kameo. Granted, I'm not a huge platform fan, but I think I know a good one when I see one (Zelda). Some of the issues I had with Kameo:

1. Awkward control scheme - Four words: Deep Blue, under water

2. Bad camera control (or lack thereof) - I was surprised that there was rarely any auto-camera in this game, whereas many platformers do. I had the problem where I constantly had to move AND manipulate the camera at the same time, which was do-able, but annoying. With good platformers, you don't have to worry about the camera ... it just "works". You do have manual control over it, when needed, but most of the time, it knows where it should be. The times there WAS an auto-camera in Kameo, it did really stupid things.

3. Inconsistent difficulty - Some bosses were insanely easy (like the last one). Other bosses were almost "controller throwing" difficult. It doesn't seem very kid friendly to me, unlike all the Zelda and Mario titles.

Really, the only reason I played it to completion was so I could unlock the achievements and boost my gamerscore (which happens to be an addicting 360 feature for me now).

For me, the best launch title hands down is PGR3. Yeah, it's a sequel, but it's done so well, and I love the integrated-ness with Xbox Live. If anyone is in doubt of whether the 360 is truly a "next gen" experience, do the following: log onto Live, pick a Gotham TV game, select a car, go to Dashboard view mode ... and watch/experience the race from there. Feel free to move the camera around, so you can look out the side windows while the person is driving. Then exit out and play a game like that. :)

Sometimes It Is Better Just To... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14291710)

This would be a good time to keep your mouth shut if you are Microsoft Xbox person...

Trying to talk shit when you are responsible for the biggest console launch fiasco ever is just begging to get yet another public reaming for the 360 and the dopes responsible for it.

Re:Sometimes It Is Better Just To... (4, Interesting)

Irish_Samurai (224931) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292072)

No shit.

Over the past week all I have seen is this bald douchebag telling me how games are going to take a "new direction" and microsoft is going to be there for it. The ONLY thing xbox has going for it is xbox live, and that's not all that great.

PLaying a puzzle game to make food for your Halo army? WTF? Does this guy not understand that these types of forced roles have been attempted before? I am not playing ANY game where I might have to handle some remedial task over and over again so my team can win. I'm not talking holding a position that no one comes to for a little while, or distributing healthpacks during a clash - I'm talking Halo: Pizza Puzzle Online. Yeah, that's neato.

Hearing him talk about multi access portals is even worse. Mr. J - have you even thought of the technical requirements for playing in the same game world from a phone, PC, and console? It's called lowest common denominator and it will sink that dream like a stone. You could have multiple different games in the same world on different platforms but that would be the same thing we have today. Way to blow smoke dumb ass.

I have yet to hear a Japanese Third party developer gush over your machine. Mostly I hear corp speak from a rep, not a developer. Not good dude.

You say you're a fan of persistent worlds? Then why did you guys purchase Bungie and change their dream of what HALO was supposed to be, a persistent online fragfest warzone, into a mediocre FPS with no tactical elements to it. Oh, probably because you don't know what your talking about.

This guy even has a writeup in POPSCI magazine about how innovative his console is. Yeah, no hard drive, selective backwards compatability, a release lineup where all the games aren't available yet, and a flawed DESIGN resulting in overheating - innovative in that maybe no one has tried to screw themselves over this hard with a new console release since the Jaguar.

You're publicist called, she says you sound like a moron.

Re:Sometimes It Is Better Just To... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14292708)

Well, you missed old news about "Japanese Third party developer gush over your machine". (Although that just sounds... wrong.)

How about committment from Jironobu Sakaguchi, Akira Toriyama, Nobuo Uematsu, Tetsuya Mizuguchi, and Yoshiki Okamoto?

The Japanese developers all seem to agree that the Xbox 360 is developer-friendly, with one of the main reasons being that the development environment is based on Direct X. The developers also spoke highly of the Xbox 360's development kit for its array of tools, including Visual C++ programming support and flexibility in recycling the programs that they've created.

Says Konami producer Akari Uchida, "It's as though we need to bring the quality graphics from prerendered movies into the actual game."

Capcom producer Keiji Inafune said the console offers plenty of potential, but how much of that gamers get to see depends on how developers use its multicore architecture. "I believe that we'll be seeing two kinds of games for a while after the Xbox 360's launch," Inafune said. "Games that feel like something on current-generation consoles and games that feel like they're Xbox 360 titles."

"The Xbox 360 is the best solution [to delivering the highest quality gaming] at the current time," said Tecmo producer Tomonobu Itagaki.

Re:Sometimes It Is Better Just To... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14292756)

Tecmo == OddWorld

Extra credit for anyone who can explain to the numbnuts parent why he just got owned...

Re:Sometimes It Is Better Just To... (2, Interesting)

Irish_Samurai (224931) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292899)

I would only consider one of these statements to be praising it. Let me address these one at a time.

"The Xbox 360 is the best solution [to delivering the highest quality gaming] at the current time," said Tecmo producer Tomonobu Itagaki.

That would be because it is the only next gen console available at the current time. More a statement of fact than a statement of support.

Capcom producer Keiji Inafune said the console offers plenty of potential, but how much of that gamers get to see depends on how developers use its multicore architecture. "I believe that we'll be seeing two kinds of games for a while after the Xbox 360's launch," Inafune said. "Games that feel like something on current-generation consoles and games that feel like they're Xbox 360 titles."

Where does he endorse the XBOX 360 in that quote? He doesn't. He merely states his opinion on the scene, that some developers are going to take advantage of the next gen capabilities beyond better textures. This is a cookie cutter statement made by all developers at the time of a new hardware launch. These guys do make statements about the xbox 360, they're just not lighting themselves on fire about it.

Says Konami producer Akari Uchida, "It's as though we need to bring the quality graphics from prerendered movies into the actual game."

Taken out of context. Japanese 3rd party developers prefer prerenders with a layer of realtime over it. When I heard this statement it was refereing to the limited space on the game delivery medium and how that would affect their design. Now, I'm not claiming to know the originating point of this quote, but it doesn't sound to me like he is going "XBOX YAY!"

I do concur though that they all said it would be pretty easy to develop for, I also maintain my stance that none of them are drooling all over themselves with the prospect of actually doing it.

Re:Sometimes It Is Better Just To... (1)

FLAGGR (800770) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292873)

Halo was first an RTS type game like Myth, not an online persistant universe. Then it changed to a RTTS, realtime tactical shooter (oo buzzword), i.e. it was a third person shooter. That was what Bungie showed at MacWorld, before their purchase. MS bought them, and some point in development they decided that 3rd person was no fun and too hard to control, so it became first person. MS has *no* creative control over Bungie. If MS did anything to negativly impact Halo, it was pressuring them to have it ready for launch.

Oh, and no tactical elements? Go play it on legendary mode. It has some of the most clever AI (and its not a they-have-more-health-and-strength-than-thou situation, they really appear smart) in games even by todays standards. Obviously you haven't played much of it, but if it makes you happy to pick on the underdog-gone-overnight-success that Bungie has become, so be it. (You know, the people that suddenly hate google now that they are successful, despite all the cool things they still do (right now I'm browsing around on the google library, great stuff))

Re:Sometimes It Is Better Just To... (1)

Irish_Samurai (224931) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292939)

Obviously you haven't played much of it, but if it makes you happy to pick on the underdog-gone-overnight-success that Bungie has become, so be it.

Actually, I have played plenty of it - and I still think it sucks. It's an opinion.

As for Bungie, I never said a bad thing about them, in fact - I think their product got screwed by MS. That's it. I don't have a foul word for them.

Re:Sometimes It Is Better Just To... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14293022)

"Go play it on legendary mode."

Translation for non-xbots:

"I have nothing else to play on my xbox so I replay Halo over and over again with the AI speed cranked up"

I beg to differ - Dreamcast (4, Informative)

dgrgich (179442) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291724)

Dreamcast's launch lineup was much better. Virtua Fighter 3? Check. Soul Caliber? Check. A Sonic game? Check. Furthermore, games like Soul Caliber exercised the power of its hardware. A fair number - Gun, Tony Hawk:AW, others - of the launch titles of the 360 are just retextured ports.

next-gen DVD (1, Flamebait)

Ender Ryan (79406) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291772)

They left out next-gen DVD capability. If they hadn't shoved the 360 out the door, they could have included a much better, next-gen DVD drive. Also, with a console that begs to be stood up on its side, they really should have gone with a slot loading drive. Even the Revolution is supposed to have a slot loading drive. Oh well, not like I need a 360, I have a high-end PC and never liked Halo.

And that's fine with me. It was expensive to buy all three consoles this generation, not to mention how much space they take up.

Other 5% (1)

moosesocks (264553) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291784)

I'm pretty sure that "Adequate Supply" is the missing 5%.

Seriously. They screwed up bigtime on this one. Among my friends, there is virtually no hype around the 360. As a matter of fact, a lot of us are seeking out older consoles and their representative games. N64 still has the best selection of 4-player games hands-down. Goldeneye, smash, mariokart, marioparty, etc....

Re:Other 5% (1)

MrJynxx (902913) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292019)

You forgot about Perfect Dark for n64 as one of the best 4player games. I can still remember the many days we played that while in university

MrJynx

Re:Other 5% (2, Informative)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292213)

N64 still has the best selection of 4-player games hands-down.
I'm not very familiar with the N64, but I suppose Dreamcast may have a better 4-player lineup:

AeroWings ~ Armada ~ Boku No Tennis Jinsei (JP) ~ Bomberman Online ~ Caesars Palace 2000 ~ Championship Surfer ~ Chu Chu Rocket ~ Cool Herders ~ Dead or Alive 2 ~ ECW Anarchy Rulz ~ ECW Revolution ~ ESPN International Track and Field ~ ESPN NBA 2Night ~ Fur Fighters ~ Gauntlet Legends ~ Giga Wing 2 ~ Golf Shiyouyo (JP) ~ Golf Shiyouyo 2 (JP) ~ Inhabitants ~ Le Mans 24h ~ Looney Tunes Space Race ~ Magforce Racing ~ Marvel Vs Capcom ~ Maximum Pool ~ NBA 2k, 2k1, 2k2 ~ NBA Showtime: NBA on NBC ~ Net De Tennis (JP) ~ NFL 2k, 2k1, 2k2 ~ NFL Blitz (2000) ~ NFL Quarterback Club 2000 ~ NFL Quarterback Club 2001 ~ NHL 2k, 2k1, 2k2 ~ Ooga Booga ~ Outtrigger ~ Pen Pen Tricelon ~ Power Stone 2 ~ Project Justice 2000 ~ Propeller Arena: Aviation Battle Championship [gametribute.com] ~ Quake III Arena ~ Red Dog ~ Re-Volt ~ San Francisco Rush 2049 ~ Sega Worldwide Soccer 2000 ~ Slave Zero ~ Sonic Shuffle ~ South Park Rally ~ South Park: Chef's Luv Shack ~ Spawn: In The Demons Hand ~ Star Wars: Demolition ~ SWWS Euro 2000 Edition ~ Sydney 2000 ~ Tee Off 2000 ~ Toy Commander ~ Toy Racer ~ Treasure Strike (JP) ~ UEFA Dream Soccer ~ UEFA Striker ~ Unreal Tournament ~ Vigilante 8: Second Offense ~ Virtua Athlete 2K ~ Virtua Tennis ~ Virtua Tennis 2 ~ V-Rally 2 ~ Wacky Races ~ Walt Disney World Quest: Magical Racing Tour ~ Worms Armageddon ~ Worms World Party ~ WWF Attitude ~ WWF Royal Rumble

Re:Other 5% (1)

Rabid_Llama (873072) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292671)

I was going to say the other 5% that was left out was fun. I think that it is a reasonable answer.

I'll post a witty response... (3, Funny)

Progman3K (515744) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291805)

As soon as I figure out what a "Linup" is...

Re:I'll post a witty response... (1)

TeknoHog (164938) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292675)

Hello, this is Bill Gates and I pronounce "linups" as "lineups".

Not enough genre variety (2, Interesting)

Falconoffury (880395) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291815)

The 360 launch lineup was a good one, but probably not the best ever. It very much lacks variety in genres. FPSs, sports games, and racing games make up far too high a percentage of games. At least it had 3 action adventure games (Gun, Condemned, and Kameo), but not other genres such as RPG, strategy, adventure, platformer, or simulation. These are some of my favorite genres, but they are hardly being utilized down the road on the 360. I guess I'll stick with PC and PS2 for now.

I guess the xbox 360 is great if you love sports games and shooters, but I already have most of the shooters for PC and I don't like sports games. They also copied too much off the success of PC shooters for me to consider this a great launch lineup.

It is my belief... (1)

wilgibson (933961) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291865)

... that if a console doesn't offer atleast one game every gamer cannot do without at launch then that console has not succeeded in offering the greatest launch line-up ever! It doesn't matter if that one game is the same for everyone, or different games in the line-up. Microsoft did not makea game that ther average joe-gamer would want so bad that some like me would go out and hunt a 360 down. Being 23 years of age, I am the supposed demographic of the 360. Have I gone out of my way to buy one? No. Will I? As the old 8-ball would say, "the answer is unclear." And because of this, Microsoft has failed!

The Xbox 360 philosophy? (4, Interesting)

rohlfinator (888775) | more than 8 years ago | (#14291984)

"Sitting down with Xbox's J Allard six months ago, at the 360's unveiling, two things became very quickly apparent. The first was that this was a machine built around a philosophy, not a set of tech specs."
It's this idea that makes me far more interested in the Xbox 360 than the PS3. Sony is clearly chasing the "set of tech specs" model of console design. At least Microsoft has a game plan, even if they don't follow through on it completely.

It's hard to tell if the 360 will ever live up to this philosophy. Xbox Live and the 360 Marketplace seem to be a big focal point, and I love what they're doing with retro downloadable games (although Nintendo will undoubtedly do it better).

But while Allard's "grand vision" of the Xbox 360 sounds amazing, it's hard for me to imagine Microsoft actually pulling it off. He claims that they're going to attract casual gamers, yet the launch lineup was aimed squarely at the same audience that bought the Xbox 1. He says that Microsoft can change their reputation through their actions, but their actions are only giving us PGR3, Halo 3, PDZ, and Kameo.

Nintendo was able to shift the DS's audience a bit by promoting first-party games like Nintendogs, Brain Training, and Electroplankton, which should open the door to third-party "non-games". But I really can't see Microsoft doing something like that. If Microsoft made a puppy simulator, their core fanbase would go nuts. The only non-games I can imagine MS promoting would be puzzle games and card games, both of which are readily available on the PC. The 360's price point isn't very non-gamer oriented, either. Microsoft can't win over non-gamers by considering them an afterthought.

Microsoft has good intentions, but it they're trying to cover two completely different markets in an attempt to compete with both Sony and Nintendo. Problem is, they can't do it all. One of those markets is being completely ignored, and the 360 will likely end up with the same core audience as the Xbox.

Re:The Xbox 360 philosophy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14292071)

"grand vision"

Oh shut the fuck up.

The technological turd that is the 360 is nothing more than the leftovers from Microsoft's long dreamed of Microsoft Network, not MSN, where they control all access to their proprietary network and collect a tax on all traffic and access to content.

Nothing more.

The 360 is a long,long,long way from those dreams of creating their own Microsoft version of the Internet back in the late 90s.

Re:The Xbox 360 philosophy? (5, Insightful)

DarKnyht (671407) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292131)

"Sitting down with Xbox's J Allard six months ago, at the 360's unveiling, two things became very quickly apparent. The first was that this was a machine built around a philosophy, not a set of tech specs."

Hmm... odd I seem to remember Microsoft and Sony getting into a peeing contest over their specs, and Nintendo being the only one to state that specs didn't matter three months ago.

"Philosophy" of "innovation," no doubt (2, Insightful)

ianscot (591483) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292345)

But while Allard's "grand vision" of the Xbox 360 sounds amazing, it's hard for me to imagine Microsoft actually pulling it off. He claims that they're going to attract casual gamers, yet the launch lineup was aimed squarely at the same audience that bought the Xbox 1. He says that Microsoft can change their reputation through their actions, but their actions are only giving us PGR3, Halo 3, PDZ, and Kameo.

So: Does all the talk about philosophy and innovation match up with the product? If not, you can safely ignore it as PR puffery. Even within his quotes here, Allard talks about breaking new ground and then talks about hitting all his goals from three years ago. If there's a philosophy there, it's one to do with mediocrity.

The conspicuous presence in this market that actually seems to believe in all those PR terms is Nintendo.

MS always has philosophies (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292419)

It just has troubles delivering them. Remember it had an awfull lot of this talk with the launch of the original x-box. Oh and with internet tv and a whole lot of other stuff. Just somehow it never seems to come together.

The x-box was an odd product in that it reached no new homes. It was bought by gamers. Now in itself that is not a problem except that this is not what this vision is all about.

Why does everyone want to get non-gamers to game? Non-gamers don't game because they don't like playing computer games. Even all geeks don't like to game, just look at the responses a game story gets vs every other kind of story.

Then you got the whole problem with the split 360 market. Either every game is not going to make full use of the HD OR people without one are going to fill left out. True broadband? Yeah we haven't heard that one before.

No reading this guy I think he needs to lay of the marketing hype and get a dose of reality check.

It is all going to depend on wether the cell is indeed the monster machine claimed, wether sony will avoid crippling it with bad hardware decisions (lack of memory is a real problem for all consoles to date) and wether there will be games that will make use of its power to create some stunning games.

I am not just talking HD. If you watched "the making of fear" video you see how the developers complain about only being able to have a few lights with a max of 7 ai. Now if the cell is truly that powerfull could it be used to, with the same engine, scale this up massivly? How about fear like AI with the population of Call of Duty. That russian bit with dozens of soldiers moving with intelligence? Droooooool

If you ever designed a level yourselve you quickly come to realize how fucking limiting current hardware is. Want to build a massive hangar with lights hanging from the ceiling and worklights and emergency lights. Oops, you can only have a dozen my friend. Want to have a big firefight with a squad on your side and a squad of enemies blazing away. Oops, more then a dozen and it is lagville.

IF the PS3 delivers in hardware and game makers will and can make full use of it then it might very well ruin MS'es party.

The stumbling blocks? Well first we don't know how powerfull the PS3 will really be. Second sony has always had problems with developers not being able to tap the true power until years later. Put it another way, playstations are a bitch to develop for.

Then there is the cross platform capabilty. It is easy to make a game work on multiple platforms by changing the graphics. Other CPU intensive stuff like AI, physics is however a lot harder to scale down without changing the game. A PS3 version of fear with dozens of AI running around could not be ported to a platform with a fraction of the power without fundamentally changing the game. It is the reason FEAR on the PC allows you to adjust all kinds of performance settings EXCEPT the number of AI in game. Scale the graphics down and it will just look horrible, scale the AI down and you will not have a game.

I am far more intrested in the capabilties of new hardware in delivering more gameplay then adding an extra layer of resolution. Graphics are important but I really would like games to start offering some real advances in AI and physics. Half-Life 2 and FEAR showed the way forward to me a lot more then Doom3 did (and no not just because it was to dark). GTA is also an eyeopener but boy could it use some serious CPU power to get some decent AI in it. Currently it is a dump as shit. The chases are never a challenge.

In some ways Sony now has a huge advantage, the race to be first has been run. Now Sony can take the time to do a proper launch with some real must have titles. So far the customers seem to realize that if they wait a year they can then properly decide on wich platform to buy and not have to end up owning them all with 2 just not being used.

Oh and that whole persistent world thing? MS talking about MMO's? Sorry, but MS is the big loser here with NONE of their MMO's surviving. Sony was at least until WoW came along the absolute master of the MMO market. MS having a vision that is really somebody's elses. Oh yeah nothing new there.

Re:MS always has philosophies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14292594)

"Non-gamers don't game because they don't like playing computer games."

Ha, I just had my parents begging me to bring my console home for Xmas so they can play Monkey Ball.
A non-gamer is someone who hasn't found the right computer game.

Likewise, plenty of people joke about me playing games all the time, until I set them up with an emulator and bubble bobble/space invaders/whatever else they played as a kid. Then they want to play 2-player with me...

Re:MS always has philosophies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14293069)

It's good to see that you aren't buying into the Microsoft hype. Then again, you bought multiple fares for the Sony hype-train.

MS is teh d00md!!!! PS3 4 lyfe!

Nintendo (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14292054)

I like how he dodges two questions about Nintendo, Revolution and its controller. Ok, so the first one was about Sony, but Big-N was used to introduce the topic. But the second question is specifically about Nintendo goals with the controller and the games back-library.

Does it mean Allard don't think Nintendo is a serious competitor? If you only look at the last 8 years of consoles, that's ok, but in no way a serious game manager can ignore the history.

Or maybe he really fears the controller... I mean, as a gamer, he's probably excited with it... I bet there's an contract agreement somewhere saying that he can't shout with joy about the competition :p

... but one of the worst console launches ever (2, Informative)

RoLi (141856) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292194)

According to http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/67478 [heise.de] and http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/67334 [heise.de] (sorry, in German), Microsoft sold only 325.902 units in North America in November, but 556.221 during the same period at the XBox1 launch.

Also they sold something between 41.817 and 62.000 units in Japan during the first 2 days while they sold 123.000 XBox1 unit in the first 2 days.

Seems like the XBox360 launch is even worse than that of XBox1.

Re:... but one of the worst console launches ever (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14292251)

Not only that, but the complete lack of any PR crap from Microsoft's marketing drones is the best indication of what a complete disaster the 360 has turned out to be.

With the tiny trickle of 360s that are making it to store shelves I am starting to wonder if Microsoft hasn't internally already killed the who 360 mess off and isn't just clearing out their existing inventory.

Re:... but one of the worst console launches ever (1)

MrCopilot (871878) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292494)

Microsoft sold only 325,902 units in North America in November

Didn't I read somewhere they only had 400k units for NA launch? If so those are pretty good #s.

Re:... but one of the worst console launches ever (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14292598)

So if they had 400 and sold 325 it's a good number too?

What matters is that fewer units were sold.

Re:... but one of the worst console launches ever (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14292683)

"What matters is that fewer units were sold."

Yep.

Even though diehard fanboys are paying two to three times what the 360 is worth on eBay because all their xbox fanboys sites keep erroneously calling the 360 'sold out'

However, if you read enough 360 forums you will learn that the 360 is only sold out in big cities and there are 360s sitting all around the US in smaller towns unsold.

That must be why we haven't heard anyone from Microsoft coming out a day or two after the launch talking about the 360 being the fastest to sell out ever or something along those lines.

I have a feeling people are going to be absolutely shocked at just how soft the demand for the 360 is.

Best System Out Right Now Is... (0, Offtopic)

thundar2000 (459149) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292216)

...the Game Boy DS!

Here is why:

1. Wireless connection rocks.
2. Great selection of innovative games.
3. Cost effective - you don't feel dirty after having to buy a bundled 360 with crappy launch titles.
4. You can actually buy one.

The hype bubble of the 360 has burst for me. I was psyched to get one, but alas, Microsoft forgot to make enough. And now, I dunno, it seems better to wait to see what the PS/3 is like, or better yet, wait for the Revolution which actually seems to have some interesting things about it, unlike the usual 'now with more chips and better looking sequels!

So, intead of a 360, I bought a DS, and you know what, the damn thing rocks.

Get a DS with Mario Kart, better yet, get 4. Wireless racing at a party is 'too much fun'.

Re:Best System Out Right Now Is... (2, Insightful)

Mr.Dippy (613292) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292478)

Yes, you can blow almost 500 dollars on an Xbox and a game. From what I've seen on the lineup I'm only interested in Call of Duty or King Kong (Both of which you can get on the PS2 and PC). Non exclusive titles rock!!! Especially when you can pay an extra 10 dollars for them on the 360. I'm promoting the DS to all my gamer friends this christmas. Mario Kart with the Wifi is just too damn fun and games like Kirby Canvas, Castlevania, Trauma Center are fun and you can't get them on any other system. Maybe comparing the xbox360 to the Nintendo DS is like apples to oranges but all I know is that my Nintendo DS is well worth the $130 investment. Can you say the same thing about the xbox 360?

Best? I don't think so... (2, Interesting)

PhotoBoy (684898) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292242)

The only launches the 360 beats are the Jaguar and the Amstrad GX4000. Thinking back to things like the SNES launch with Mario World, F-Zero, Pilotwings, Actraiser etc it's pretty clear that the 360 hasn't had a great launch. In fact its launch reminds me of the PS2- shortages, stupid prices on eBay, rushed unfinished launch titles and nothing ground breakingly original in the lineup.

Hardly any of the 360's launch games are exclusives, those that are exclusive aren't that great and all of the games were clearly rushed out of the door in a desperate attempt to have some games on the shelf for launch. I think in the long run MS will have to concede that getting your console out the door first isn't a good idea when it means leaving a sour taste in the consumer's mouth.

Advertising (0, Flamebait)

Mitaphane (96828) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292324)

Mr. Allard misses the point to broading the video game market. They ask him:

Looking at the Revolution, with its controller and game download service, how important is technology like that for growing the market, or is there still room for growth with conventional games?

He then starts talking about the cost of games. As if the cost was the thing preventing more people from picking up the newest console and start gaming. Granted, it some way it does impede some people, but most likely if they like gaming they have a older generation console and play games on that. He then throws out this gem:

And what we haven't done in the gaming industry is that we haven't brought advertising, sponsorship and product placement to bear in a way that could broaden the audience. Now, I don't think anyone in the world - except maybe people who work in advertising - would stand up and say: "I love advertising, I want more of it!" But the flipside of it is that I like the price of the internet, I like the price of TV which comes as a result of advertising. I like the fact I can buy your magazine on the store shelf and it doesn't cost me $27

Yes, it isn't like you have to pay for an ISP or have to pay for cable to get more than 7 channels. And lets just ignore the fact that they already do product advertisement in some sports games, which from what I can tell hasn't lower the cost for games at all. Putting that all aside, let's look at the gaming market..

It consists mostly of males ranging from somewhere around 8 to 40. And a lot of the older ones have grew up playing video games for a while. The point Mr. Allard is missing with Nintendo's controller is accessability. TV, movies, and the Internet don't have a wider audience because of advertising(and thus a cheaper entry fee). They have a broader audience because it's very easy to stare at screen
or read a web browser and use a mouse.

Looking at the accessability for video games it's easy to see why they're only enticing to those who've grown up with them(or young enough that it's much easier to pick up). Now a days, most games make use of 2 direction pads/sticks and I would say around 8 actions buttons. For someone who hasn't grown up playing video games, that's a lot to deal with if you want to start playing video games.

If Nintendo plays this right with its more intuitative controller and its download service of older, simplier games, I think they might just be able to find that broader gaming market that won't be won by advertising.

Damn the preview button next to reply button (1)

Mitaphane (96828) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292390)

Ahem, again with the tags properly closed...my apologies.

Mr. Allard misses the point to broading the video game market. They ask him:

Looking at the Revolution, with its controller and game download service, how important is technology like that for growing the market, or is there still room for growth with conventional games?

He then starts talking about the cost of games. As if the cost was the thing preventing more people from picking up the newest console and start gaming. Granted, it some way it does impede some people, but most likely if they like gaming they have a older generation console and play games on that. He then throws out this gem:

And what we haven't done in the gaming industry is that we haven't brought advertising, sponsorship and product placement to bear in a way that could broaden the audience. Now, I don't think anyone in the world - except maybe people who work in advertising - would stand up and say: "I love advertising, I want more of it!" But the flipside of it is that I like the price of the internet, I like the price of TV which comes as a result of advertising. I like the fact I can buy your magazine on the store shelf and it doesn't cost me $27

Yes, it isn't like you have to pay for an ISP or have to pay for cable to get more than 7 channels. And lets just ignore the fact that they already do product advertisement in some sports games, which from what I can tell hasn't lower the cost for games at all. Putting that all aside, let's look at the gaming market..

It consists mostly of males ranging from somewhere around 8 to 40. And a lot of the older ones have grew up playing video games for a while. The point Mr. Allard is missing with Nintendo's controller is accessability. TV, movies, and the Internet don't have a wider audience because of advertising(and thus a cheaper entry fee). They have a broader audience because it's very easy to stare at screen or read a web browser and use a mouse.

Looking at the accessability for video games it's easy to see why they're only enticing to those who've grown up with them(or young enough that it's much easier to pick up). Now a days, most games make use of 2 direction pads/sticks and I would say around 8 actions buttons. For someone who hasn't grown up playing video games, that's a lot to deal with if you want to start playing video games.

If Nintendo plays this right with its more intuitative controller and its download service of older, simplier games, I think they might just be able to find that broader gaming market that won't be won by advertising.

Re:Advertising (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14292846)

Accessability is a concept that is foreign to most developers; they're typically so focused on the most dedicated and 'Hardcore' elements of their fan base that accessibility gets lost in favor of more (mostly pointless) features. Accessibility is also why Nintendo's games are so good.

Look at Kirby's Air ride, a racing game that was designed around 1 button and directional controls; the button is the break, after you press it you charge up your boost (which activates it when you release it). Now for 'hard-core' racing game fans this seems a little simplistic, you can't even honk your horn or flash your lights (although Kirby doesn't have a horn or lights), but it is one of the few games I can play with my six year old niece (or my girlfriend) and they can both enjoy it and understand how to play.

More accessible and intuitive? (1)

scolby (838499) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292986)

I still don't see how the Revolution controller is more accessible and intuitive than an ordinary controller. You've got a whole new set of movements to learn on top of the existing stick/pad with several buttons layout. And accessible? What about people with limited arm movements? People are used to the way current controllers work; what exactly makes this one "easier?"

Re:More accessible and intuitive? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14293088)

What makes it more accessable is that you can do something in a far more intuitive way and use less (or at worst the same number) buttons. Something as 'simple' as camera control has caused endless headaches for players and developers alike (in particular in platformer games); by pressing one button on the 'wand' you suddenly allow people to directly control how the camera is moved (Pan,Rotate, Roll and Zoom all at the same time).

Re:Advertising (1)

dsyu (203328) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292987)

Thanks for the very insightful post. Someone please mod parent up.

If J Allard really thinks the barrier to wider acceptance of gaming is price, he's totally missing the point. I know many people who wouldn't play games currently if they were free or even paid to do it. They're just not interested in the current offerings. Nintendo's approach makes much more sense.

Say . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14292339)

Didn't Uwe Boll say something like this, too?

It is a success, unless you ask J. Allard (2, Interesting)

CMiYC (6473) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292396)

FTA:

Interviewer: What was the first piece of 360 game software that you played that made you say: "Yes, that's it, that's what we were trying to accomplish"?
J. Allard: Uh - well, in a way it hasn't happened yet, I would say.

Interesting. The most successful console launch ever, hasn't even impressed the guy who architected it.

Later on: These early games? They cut a lot of corners... but don't worry after knocking his own launch twice, But I still think it's the best launch line-up of any console ever. Of course he does!

HAHA! (1)

LupusCanis (939826) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292517)

Yeah. Right. The XBOX 360 had an awful launch lineup, Perfect Dark Zero being the only killer app, and that's hardly comparible to a Mario or Halo game at launch. For the record, the PS3 looks to have a terrible one too, just like the PS2. And the Revolution ... well, depends entirely on whether they deliver their promises.

Don't make me laugh, man (0, Flamebait)

oGMo (379) | more than 8 years ago | (#14292537)

OK this is just sad. This is, perhaps, the main reason Microsoft fails in this market. They do something and declare it's the best ever: and they believe their own propaganda. That's just sad. It would be one thing if it was, "well, we had fairly strong launch, and we have a lot of games lined up in the future". But no, this sheer stubborn arrogance.

Let's look at a few things: The PSP sold 500k units in 2 days [about.com] and many people consider it to have had a weak launch. (Possibly because it didn't entirely sell out.) It also had a more diverse launch title list [ign.com] Exclude Ren Goku and Smart Bomb as they weren't available for a couple weeks (and sucked anyway). The remaining games were solid titles available the day of launch.

And again, many people consider this a weak launch.

The PS2 had a more sizeable list [megagames.com] at launch than the X360---also more diverse. (Yeah, so the graphics weren't good; gee, it was 2000. Compare it to the PSX or N64.)

The N64 launched with Mario64, which is widely considered to be one of the best games ever. The SNES was launched with Super Mario World; the NES with Super Mario Bros. All of these are AAA titles, and a single AAA title outweighs any number of B titles.

So in conclusion: Microsoft's claim is laughable at best---but mostly, sad and pathetic.

Dreamcast (1)

thebdj (768618) | more than 8 years ago | (#14293035)

I still argue this had the most diverse and complete list of games at launch. As I recall, a few months back, one of the millions of gamer sites (1up maybe) ranked the launches of consoles, and Dreamcast was one of the (if not the) highest one. Of course they were making up for the poor showing in their previous launch, but alas lies and deceit from the Sony camp caused the premature end of the Dreamcast and all future Sega consoles.

Re:Dreamcast (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14293064)

Why the fuck can't the Dreamcast cult follow the example of so many others and do the world a favor with some sort of mass suicide.

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