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Free P2P In France?

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 8 years ago | from the viva-la-parliament dept.

Media 190

cyberbian writes to tell us that earlier in the week the French Parliament voted to allow free sharing of music and movies on the Internet. This ruling puts them in direct conflict with both the Media companies and the rest of the French government. From the article: " If the amendment survives, France would be the first country to legalize so called peer-to-peer downloading, said Jean-Baptiste Soufron, legal counsel to the Association of Audionautes, a French group that defends people accused of improperly sharing music files. The law would be a blow to media companies that increasingly use the courts worldwide to sue people for downloading or sharing music and movie files. Entertainment companies such as Walt Disney Co., Viacom Inc. and News Corp.'s Fox say free downloading of unauthorized copies of TV shows and movies before they are released on DVD will cost them $5 billion in revenue this year."

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A Cristmas Pony (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14335916)

Everything was silent that Christmas Eve.  Only the lightly falling snow
that decorated the landscape seemed to exhibit life.  The children of the
Streamer family had gone to bed early in hopes that Santa would come.  Tom
Streamer and his lovely wife Laura were snuggled in each other's arms,
anticipating the joyous laughter that soon will fill the Midwestern farmhouse
as it did each Christmas before.  Laura was asleep but Tom was engrossed in
thought.

     Tom had promised himself that this year's drought and its devastating
effects on his family's income would not spoil this Christmas for his children.
But the lack of revenue made it impossible for him to buy the one thing his
children wanted so desperately: a pony.  All Midwestern farm kids, except his,
had ponies to ride and Tom felt a sense of guilt not being able to afford one.

     Tom looked over towards Laura.  He then realized he was a lucky man to
have such a beautiful and adoring family.  His fifteen year old son, Jimmy, had
made All American in just his freshman year of high school.  His thirteen year
old daughter, Amy, was fast becoming a remarkable woman.

     Without warning, Tom's thoughts were interrupted by a loud crash coming
from the roof of the two-story wood framed house.  Startled, Laura woke to hear
the supports in the attic creak under the strain of something heavy.

     "What is it?" Laura asked, wiping the sleep from her eyes.

     "I don't know," Tom replied, moving quickly out of bed and putting on a
robe.  "Let's find out."

     Laura followed Tom's lead while also slipping on a robe.

     As they scampered out of the master bedroom, they were greeted in the
hallway by Jimmy and Amy.

     "Is that Santa?" Amy asked.

     Jimmy said, "I don't think so, Amy.  But I'm ready for anything."

     Tom and Laura laughed as Jimmy knifed his hands through the air.  He was
taking Karate lessons at the local YMCA and was anxious to demonstrate his
newfound skill.  Amy and Jimmy soon followed their parent's laughter with
snickers of their own.

     "Come on, 'Karate Kid.'  Let's see what's going on," Tom said, grinning
while ruffling his right hand through Jimmy's thick curly hair.

     The family followed the creaking sound along the rafters.

     "It seems to be heading towards the chimney," Laura said perplexed.

     "It is Santa!" Amy exclaimed.

     "Don't jump to conclusions just yet young lady," Tom said with a fake
scowl on his face.  "The fireplace is lit.  Maybe it's an animal that got on
the roof from a nearby tree and wants to get close to the heat coming from the
chimney.  It's cold outside you know."

     "By the sound of it, it's a pretty *BIG* animal don't you think, Dad?"
Jimmy went back to making Karate chops again.

     They huddled around the top of the staircase, crouching down to get the
full view of the roaring fire in the fireplace, wondering what the source of
the sound on the roof was going to do next.

     All of a sudden the fire in the fireplace blew out with a whooshing sound.
But just as suddenly, the fire roared back to life.  The four of them gasped.
There, standing in front of the fireplace, was a very large man with a white
beard dressed in a red suit, wearing gloves and a cap and stroking the head of
a magnificent pony!

     "Ho ho ho," the jolly old man chuckled.  "Wasn't that fun?" the man asked
the beast.  The pony nodded his head up and down as if to agree.

     "That *IS* Santa," Tom whispered, bewildered.

     The four bodies at the top of the stairs stole quick glances at each other
then just as quickly returned their gaze towards the scene that was taking
place in the living room.

     "I'd better get you ready for the children," the jolly man said with a
twinkle in his eye.  He moved without delay towards the far side of the
handsome animal and fell to his knees with a loud plop.  The pony was parallel
to the fireplace and the big man was in between them.  The reddish orange glow
cast forth from the flames complimented the rosy cheeks of the warm-hearted
man.  The fire being near the floor illuminated the underside of the well
muscled beast.  It was a stallion!

     Santa took off his gloves, neatly folded them together, then deposited
them in one of his coat pockets.  He stroked his left hand lightly along the
backside of the pony's resilient ass muscles, periodically fingering the
steed's puckering asshole.  He used his right hand to massage and knead the
pony's huge balls in small circles, like a skilled juggler handling a pair of
baseballs in one hand.

     "Ho ho!  I see you trying to poke out," Santa said with a stout laugh.  He
flicked his tongue around the inside of the ring of thick skin.  The pony
raised his head and shook it from side to side causing his mane to wave
majestically as if flowing in an imaginary wind.

     "You love it, don't you boy?" Santa asked the pony.  The pony responded by
popping the cockhead out through the first fold ring and telescoping the meaty
shaft another four inches.

     "A sex horse!" Laura whispered in subdued excitement.

     "Yeah!  Just what I really wanted for Christmas," Jimmy mused without
realizing that he was thinking out loud.

     "You too?" Amy asked surprised.

     Tom looked at Laura.  Stunned, they both looked at the two children.  They
had discussed the topic of sex with their children but only on a basic level.
They were very pleased to learn that Amy and Jimmy had taken a healthy attitude
towards sex in general and towards sex with animals in particular.

     Tom and Laura confessed that they too wanted to have a sex horse.  But
they were afraid of what the children might think if they'd ever found out.

     "Don't worry, Mom and Dad.  I've wanted one for a couple of years now.
You see this won't go away half the time," Jimmy said pointing to the big lump
in his pajamas.  "And you and Mom won't allow Amy or me to have human sex until
we're eighteen.  I fully understand your reasons why.  So that's when I came up
with the idea of having sex with animals.  I can learn about sex, have a great
time at it, and won't get some girl pregnant!"

     "Me too!" chimed Amy.  Amy blushed realizing not all of what Jimmy said
applied to her - that girls can't get girls pregnant.  The others chuckled.
"You know what I mean.  One of the girls at school has a pony that she fucks
with all the time and she doesn't worry about getting knocked up by the horse -
'cause animals can't get humans pregnant."  Again Tom looked stunned at Laura.
But they shrugged their shoulders in unison.  After all, Amy had become a
level-headed young woman and deserved the freedom to express herself in the way
she saw appropriate for the occasion.

     "Jimmy, are you disappointed that it's a male pony?" asked Tom.

     "Heck no, Dad.  I'd love to suck on a cock just as well as fuck a pussy
any day."

     Again Tom looked at Laura.  This time Laura turned the corners of her
mouth down in a matter-of-fact kind of expression.  "My, how our children have
grown," she said then laughed.

     "Shhhhhhhhhhh," Tom whispered with his index finger sticking straight up
in front of his puckered lips.  He couldn't hold back a chuckle himself.
"Let's watch."

     The pony's cock pulsed rhythmically up and down in unison with the
stallion's own heartbeat.  The shaft grew thicker and stiffer with each passing
second.

     Tom was pleasantly surprised that the pony was well cared for.  He knew
this by the way the sparkling glow of the fire reflected off the shaft of the
clean cock.  If the cock weren't clean it wouldn't have been shiny.

     Santa removed his left hand from the stallion's flanks and scooted
sideways towards the pony's front legs.  He took off his cap, stuffing it into
an empty pocket, and then positioned himself under the pony so that his back
was supported by the pony's front legs and the pony's cock was directly in
front of his face.

     "Ho ho ho," Santa bellowed, his mouth now the right size and shape to suck
the pony's cock deep inside.  Santa moved his head and torso forward an inch or
two and stuffed the fist-sized tip of horsecock into his mouth.  He slowly
continued his head and torso movement forward, pivoting at the waist.  Inch
after solid inch of extremely thick horsecock continued its moist journey into
Santa's well-stretched mouth, the tip scraping his palate and flattening his
tongue.  The family members choked as they saw all fifteen inches of horsecock
vanish into Santa's swelling mouth, throat and stomach!  Santa's nose invaded
the space formed between the pony's abdomen and the cockshaft within the
sheath, the top of Santa's head tickling the pony's belly in the process.
Still breathing, Santa savored the uniquely animalistic aroma coming from
within the pony's sheath.

     The pony slowly exposed half of his spit-slickened love tube, then
abruptly jammed it all back in again.  He repeated the action six more times
then left his sex weapon buried to the hilt on the last stroke.

     The pony's flanks quivered and his tail waved to and fro as the blissful
steed came violently, planting his scalding hot seed directly into Santa's
stomach.  But Santa didn't want to drink all of the pony's horsecum, for he
knew that the family was watching him.  He'd staged this exhibition especially
for their benefit.  After all, he is Santa and Santa knows all!

     Santa tapped the pony on the knees and the pony instantly pulled his cock
out half way, the well lubricated shaft spasming with radiant energy.  Santa
sat upright dislodging the stallion's cock from his mouth with a loud squishy
sound.  The fist-sized tip, now free, flared to over five inches in diameter
while horsecum hosed Santa's face and beard.

     Eagerly, Santa drank the remainder of the stallion's cum.  He held the
twitching piece of horseflesh as still as possible while directing the forceful
jets of tasty horsecum into his still-gaping mouth.

     When the last of the horsecum shot into Santa's mouth, Santa gulped it
down while smacking his lips several times.  Santa worked the dripping horsecum
on his face into the exposed flesh.  It gave his skin a healthy glow.  The pony
again stood normally while the flared hood of his cock shrank and the shaft
drooped once more.

     Santa grabbed the rapidly deflating cock and licked it all over.  He
turned and smiled as he looked up the stairs where the sexually electrified
Streamer family was watching.

     "Ho ho ho!  Take very good care of my boy here!  Merry sex-mas to you
all!" he boomed.  The fire went out again for a brief moment and once more
re-ignited.

     Santa was gone but the magnificent steed remained, his head turned towards
the family.  Tom, Laura, Jimmy and Amy each swore they saw a smile on that
pony's face!

Duplicate article (4, Informative)

Antony-Kyre (807195) | more than 8 years ago | (#14335920)

It's a duplicate, same URL as before. I know because I saved the page from a few days ago.

Duplicate article-Deja Vu responses. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336013)

That's OK. Our responses will be a quadtriplicate from the last few times we've discussed P2P and copyright.

Re:Duplicate article-Deja Vu responses. (1)

Antony-Kyre (807195) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336071)

Duplicate articles deserve to be in the Slashback section if anywhere, right?

How very ironic! (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14335921)

This was the DADVSI bill that was supposed to turn free software into crime.

You have to admire an independent parliament!

law world wide? (1)

anhata (939871) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336236)

"The law would be a blow to media companies that increasingly use the courts worldwide to sue people for downloading or sharing music and movie files"

Why is this a blow to media worldwide? how does the french court makes law for rest of the world.

Re:law world wide? (3, Insightful)

utnow (808790) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336339)

1. there are media companies all over the world, and their files are all traded in france like everywhere else.

2. this plants ideas into the minds of legislators everywhere and gives them a test-bed (france) where it's effects can be seen.

3. people worldwide will see this and wonder why THEY don't have similar legislation. We, in the US, do this all the time... anytime something shows up in europe people over here start mentioning it left and right. 'how come WE don't have a law that does such and such???" such copycats...

Basically this is going to start to show to the world that the sharing of files isn't going to cause nazi's to ride in on dinosaurs...

Dupe, Dupe, Dupe (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14335923)

Dupe of Error

Actual Cost? (1)

Aurix (610383) | more than 8 years ago | (#14335924)

... say it will cost them 5 billion...

5 billion in profits? After what costs? Better yet, how did they come up with such a figure?

Re:Actual Cost? (4, Funny)

Spy Handler (822350) | more than 8 years ago | (#14335939)

Same place BSA pulls its figure from. Out of its ass.

Actual Cost?-A steep pitch. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336039)

Both "Free advertising" and "losing profits" sides are pulling things out of their asses. If the content producers can't prove loss, then the other side can't prove benefit either.

Re:Actual Cost?-A steep pitch. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336160)

Except the latter is irrelevant. The reasons for criminalizing P2P were demonstrable harm coupled to an industry lobby created perversion of copyright from limited monopoly for commercial distribution into intellectual "property". The latter's a lie, if the former is as well then banning P2P is obviously unjust. And simple-fun-fact, an activity doesn't need to be proven beneficial to be legal. Stop thinking in dualisms, which are convenient but rarely represent reality.

Viva la resistance! (3, Funny)

thealsir (927362) | more than 8 years ago | (#14335925)

...er, I mean, curse those French Fries!

Re:Viva la resistance! (2, Funny)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336103)

Obligatory Python reference:

ARTHUR: Go and tell your master that we have been charged by God with a sacred quest. If he will give us money, he can have join a very nice movie on DVD
GUARD: Well, I'll ask him, but I don't think he'll be very keen... Uh, he's already downloaded it, you see?
ARTHUR: What?
GALAHAD: He says they've already downloaded it!
ARTHUR: Are you sure he's downloaded it?
GUARD: Oh, yes, it's very nice-a (I told him we already downloaded it)
ARTHUR: Well, um, can we come up and have a look?
GUARD: Of course not! You are English types-a!
ARTHUR: Well, what are you then?
GUARD: I'm French! Why do think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king!
GALAHAD: What are you doing in England?
GUARD: Mind your own business!
ARTHUR: If you will not show us the illegal download, we shall take your castle by force!
GUARD: You don't frighten us, English pig-dogs! Go and boil your bottoms, sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called Arthur-King, you and your silly English K...niggets. Thppppt!
GALAHAD: What a strange person.

The best present (0)

Council (514577) | more than 8 years ago | (#14335927)

All I have to say to that is Merry Christmas.

Re:The best present (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336089)

And! Happy first day of Chanukah!!

What about Canada? (5, Informative)

eMartin (210973) | more than 8 years ago | (#14335934)

"If the amendment survives, France would be the first country to legalize so called peer-to-peer downloading"

I was under the impression that it's already legal in Canada [slashdot.org] .

Or does Canada not count?

Re:What about Canada? (1)

k00110 (932544) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336006)

Of what I know, downloading copyrighted MUSIC is legal in Canada.

"[ISPs] tend to ignore cease and desist orders more in Canada," said Craig Winter, MPAA Internet enforcement manager. He said that in the United States, the DMCA "says that ISPs, if they have been notified that there is infringing content, they are obligated to remove access to that content or at least notify the end users. So if Canada doesn't have something as strong and the ISPs don't feel they have any liability, they may ignore requests to take down [sites]."

source : http://www.dvd-recordable.org/Article1984-mode=thr ead-order0-threshold0.phtml [dvd-recordable.org]

Re:What about Canada? (1)

k00110 (932544) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336017)

From the way I see it. Downloading copyrighted music is legal in Canada and downloading copyrighted movies is illegal but ISP don't care much about it. Laws will probaly change over time... ex: Add a levy on DVD to allow people to download/copy copyrighted movies.

Re:What about Canada? (4, Interesting)

JonN (895435) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336020)

Oeer-to-peer is only partially legal in Canada. The government has deemed that downloading music in Canada is perfectly legal, as it is for personal use. However the issue lies in uploading music, which is illegal. More information in this article [com.com]

Re:What about Canada? (4, Informative)

k00110 (932544) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336038)

In the initial ruling they say "But the judge denied that request. In a far-ranging decision, the court further found that both downloading music and putting it in a shared folder available to other people online appeared to be legal in Canada. "

Makes it available to other people imply uploading so it must be legal. I think some recording associations are trying to mess with the judgement.

Re:What about Canada? (3, Informative)

wfberg (24378) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336123)

The distinction made between uploading and merely making it available for download is who's pushing the buttons. So, sending music to your mate on msn messenger would be Bad, since you're pushing the upload button. Having an FTP server would be legal. Etc.

Re:What about Canada? (1)

orionware (575549) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336180)

Dude,

There are alot of French people in Canada so NEITHER country really matters.

what about spain? (1)

diegocgteleline.es (653730) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336194)

In Spain the "right for private copy" allows you to get non-authorized movies and music as long as you don't redistribute or show it to anyone else and you don't gain money from it

Re:what about spain? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336228)

Incorrect. You can give whatever copies you may have to all and anyone; it's having monetary gain from it that is illegal. Showing (as in a theatre, for instance) the work to a plurality of people would be illegal also, but not the case if you play them to your friends and family in the privacy of your home. Having said this, please note that IANAL.

Yay France! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14335936)

P2P - the technology should be free, nothing wrong with that. The sharing of copyrighted material otoh, by whatever medium, is a completely different matter.
Nice to see legislators being able to differentiate the two for once.

Why this is WRONG (5, Funny)

kentrel (526003) | more than 8 years ago | (#14335941)

People will freely distribute Celine Dion songs without any fear of retribution.

Re:Why this is WRONG (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14335958)

Hopefully, their P2P peers will them DDOS out of the internet. Some things you just won't do, including distributing Celine Dion songs. That's just too disgusting.

Re:Why this is WRONG (4, Funny)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336028)

  1. Distributing Celine Dion is a violation of the Geneva Conventions.
  2. Blame where blame is due: Celine Dion is CANADIAN!

Re:Why this is WRONG (2, Informative)

elzurawka (671029) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336046)

Céline Dion, is canadian, from quebec.
Not every that speaks french is from France.

Re:Why this is WRONG (2, Informative)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336114)

Céline Dion, is canadian, from quebec. Not every that speaks french is from France.

Any person from France can tell you the Quebec lingo can hardly be called french. It's just about impossible to understand outside of Montreal...

Re:Why this is WRONG (1)

dc29A (636871) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336210)

Any person from France can tell you the Quebec lingo can hardly be called french. It's just about impossible to understand outside of Montreal...
- The Québec french dialect is about as different from french in France as Aussie dialect vs US dialect. Of course if you don't call the aussie dialect english, then yeah, don't call this french either. :)

Re:Why this is WRONG (1)

Moulinneuf (844899) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336214)

Nice try idiot , half my familly is French , they always say that we speak and write better french then they do , my fammily is spread all over France , we use less english word then they do , there is no problem undertsanding each other at all. Stop spreading your bulshit , moron.

Y'all beware of the jag-wire now! (2, Insightful)

Scrameustache (459504) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336412)

Any person from France can tell you the Quebec lingo can hardly be called french. It's just about impossible to understand

...as the U.S. lingo is to the British.

Re:Why this is WRONG (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336260)

Pretty fucking stupid, it's the other way around, unless we're INTENTIONALLY speaking like an old "quebec rednek", the french understand us better than we understand them when we go in france. Those fuckers speak incredibly fast :P

Re:Why this is WRONG (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336192)

People will freely distribute Celine Dion songs without any fear of retribution.

In this case, I think the crime is it's own punishment.

Re:Why this is WRONG (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336404)

I'm seriously going to download "It's all coming back to me now" right this minute.

Jerry Lewis movies will now overwhelm the internet (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14335955)

The horror!

Three weeks later, in order to save the world, the Germans invade and defeat France in -2 days - the French will surrender [i]before[/i] the invasion.

In a move that surprises nobody but the French, for the fifth time in a row the Germans will invade via the Ardennes forest.

Please ! (5, Insightful)

yogikoudou (806237) | more than 8 years ago | (#14335959)

Please please stop saying that P2P is illegal. P2P is legal everywhere, downloading/uploading copyrighted material is illegal.

By the way, stop using IP as an acronym for Intellectual Property, IP is Internet Protocol.

Re:Please ! (2, Insightful)

melonman (608440) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336004)

By the way, stop using IP as an acronym for Intellectual Property, IP is Internet Protocol.

It's both - short acronyms are as sought-after as short domain names, and there is even less you can do about someone else using the one you thought you owned. Lawyers talk about IP all the time.

Re:Please ! (5, Funny)

AgentScummy (927127) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336027)

So Voice over IP (VoIP) is someone talking during a movie?

Re:Please ! (1)

citizenr (871508) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336068)

> downloading/uploading copyrighted material is illegal.

Well, not in my country (Poland).

Re:Please ! (1)

Stanneh (775821) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336198)

Right on i sorta feel like i been waiting my whole life for someone to put both them points streight :D

Re:Please ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336252)

P2P *might* be (and possibly is) legal everywhere, but "downloading/uploading copyrighted material"
is *not* illegal *everywhere*.

Re:Please ! (3, Insightful)

nomadic (141991) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336310)

By the way, stop using IP as an acronym for Intellectual Property, IP is Internet Protocol.

No, stop using IP as an acronym for Internet Protocol. Intellectual Property came first.

Re:Please ! (2, Insightful)

Travelsonic (870859) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336340)

To be technical though, it's downloading music that is copyrighted without permission from the copyright holder that is illegal - there are copyrighted works that are legal to share. ^_^

Re:Please ! (1)

mumblestheclown (569987) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336411)

By the way, stop using IP as an acronym for Intellectual Property, IP is Internet Protocol.

Slashdot pencildickness reaches a new low.

5 billion lost?! Oh no! (1, Insightful)

Pichu0102 (916292) | more than 8 years ago | (#14335966)

Seriously, 5 billion lost? People that download music and movies would rarely actually buy the music or movies if they had no other choice. This is just more bullshit propaganda spread by the **AA.

Re:5 billion lost?! Oh no! (2, Interesting)

JonN (895435) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336029)

While it is true that the majority of heavy p2p users would never purchase everything that they have downloaded, think beyond the magnitude. I know personally there are many CDs which I have not bought, because I could download them. If I couldn't download them, then I would have purchased them because I enjoy the music.

Also, before any flame, I live in Canada so it is perfectly legal :)

Re:5 billion lost?! Oh no! (2, Insightful)

theskipper (461997) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336102)

That's interesting. Personally, there are many CDs that I would have purchased over the last 10 years but didn't find the cost-benefit ratio acceptable. In other words, it wasn't worth $15 to purchase any of them. So I didn't. Five dollars and there probably would have been a number of sales. Economics 101.

Having said that, there's no way I would engage in copyright infringement by using P2P. I just do without. It's an "ethical" thing in my case; I don't consider it fair use unless I paid for the original. However, as soon as the payment is made then all aspects of fair use are expected. At that point it's my right to lend the original media to a friend or make backup copies or use it anywhere on equipment I own.

It's an attempt to adhere to the true spirit of fair use and meshes comfortably with my world view.

The point is, in the context of the article, how many people actually fall into your camp and how many into mine?

Study: File sharing boosts music sales (1)

hkmwbz (531650) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336288)

Link [com.com]

5 billion GAINED?! Oh no! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336326)

"Seriously, 5 billion lost? People that download music and movies would rarely actually buy the music or movies if they had no other choice."*

Here let me translate for you next time we have a copyright argument:

"The 'we're doing it as free advertising'/'stickin it to the man' argument is pure bullshit and should be ignored." Oh yes, here are your "choices". Buy...ignore. Not, buy...download. More internally consistent with the "all content is crap" slashdot theme, no?

*Oh that reminds me. Remember that movie that was downloadable, before it was even released? Bet the line was around the corner for something that wasn't even available legally.

not so fast (1)

blechx (767202) | more than 8 years ago | (#14335975)

Mind you, for successful p2p downloading, there has to be another person at the other end uploading. If this is still illegal, then not much has changed really.
This was actually the case in sweden until not too long ago.

Of course not ... (4, Insightful)

straybullets (646076) | more than 8 years ago | (#14335978)

What the representants that rejected the government bill to ban P2P really want is to impose a new monthly tax that will be given back to the artists, kind of like what is done already with radio broadcasted music. Gee ... what a not so great idea !

It is also important to note that among those so called pro P2P stand some of the most right winged politicians, namely Christine Boutin, known for her brain washed positions against abortion, homosexuality et al ... You would think of some better advocatee to defend freedom .

IMO this pro P2P stand is taken by a bunch of know nothings politician that just want the free exposure and a chance to look modern and up to date, as the majority of the population here is pro P2P. All this noise is a real shame too as you would think that after 2 weeks of urban riots these people would have some more important things to care about.

One good thing tho is that the actual "ministre de la culture" who is a total dick is in a real bad position now, being defeated by the left and right of the parliament.

Rest assure that the right wing government will promptly deal with this situation and burry the problem fast.

A tax is worse than a ban... (4, Insightful)

mangu (126918) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336069)

What the representants that rejected the government bill to ban P2P really want is to impose a new monthly tax that will be given back to the artists


Seems bad, really bad... You can always break the law, as Heinlein once said: "But I will accept any rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; If I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am responsible for everything I do." ("The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress", 1966). It's much harder to avoid paying a tax that's built into the price you pay for access to the web.


As I mentioned this morning on another story [slashdot.org] , the problem with illegal copying is that products are priced much higher than their true value. I was in France a couple of weeks ago and saw some fruit stands in Paris that worked based on customers' honesty. The fruit were in cardboard boxes on the sidewalk, you picked whatever you wanted and stepped into the store to pay. Are French people so honest that they will always pay the price? I don't think so. Although I wouldn't mind picking a few 500 euro bills from a box on the sidewalk and then step inside to write a check, no bank in France works the same way grocers do.


Each business must work according to the product being sold. What's so wrong about this bill in France is that they seem to be transfering the duties of the merchant to others. Jewelers in France must provide their own safes and break-proof glass showcases. Fruitstand vendors must keep an eye for people who walk away without paying. Yet the media industry want to transfer to the ISPs the chore of making sure that no one copies a song without paying...

One question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14335984)

How is downloading television shows "before they're released on DVD" a copyright violation? I'm not talking about movies - but tv shows that I already paid for and have a legal right to record myself?

scuttlemonkey is a true geek (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14335989)

It's XMAS day and here he is, on slashdot with the rest of us losers.

As far as I know... (2, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 8 years ago | (#14335991)

If the amendment survives, France would be the first country to legalize so called peer-to-peer downloading, said Jean-Baptiste Soufron, legal counsel to the Association of Audionautes

...no civilized country hae outlawed peer-to-peer downloading, that is the technology itself. For a specific exchange to be legal though, you must have the necessary rights to that specific content such as being in the public domain or with permission from the copyright holder.

What we're talking about here is extending the concept of "private copying" to include peer-to-peer downloads. This is allowed by many copyright laws, almost all passed when you had generational loss and copies would be inferior. In short, it is a legal way to copy the works of others without the copyright holder's permission.

Since digital copies are perfect clones, and there's no borders on the Internet, it would pretty much obliterate all copyright in the private sector world-wide. What do you think the odds are of that passing? Not until you see the Devil wearing a pink tutu doing a triple axel on ice skates in Hell.

french p2p (1)

j. william (934039) | more than 8 years ago | (#14335995)

This HAS to be the result of some drunk parliamentarian doing something to piss of the guy from two counties over. It'd be great if they're serious about it, then maybe our country will take after the French one more time (all the slaverey, murder, lies and all the b.s. our country is based on...i'm convinced we got the ideas from the French), legalize file-sharing, and I can continue to not feel bad about downloading music. Heh.

Already Legal in Canada (3, Informative)

Oniros (53181) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336000)

No, it would not be the first country to make P2P downloading legal. P2P downloading for personal usage is perfectly legal in Canada; which is just an extension of the right to private copy which let you borrow a CD from a friend and make a copy for your own private usage. What is not legal is uploading / distributing unauthorized copies of copyrighted material; likewise it's an extension of the existing laws, you can't make copies and give/sell them to others.

Re:Already Legal in Canada (1)

JonN (895435) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336035)

P2P is not legal in Canada, as P2P requires two ends the uploader and downloader. As you stated, uploading copyrighted music is illegal in Canada, therefore P2P = illegal.

Re:Already Legal in Canada (1)

k00110 (932544) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336084)

P2P is legal in Canada. It's not everyone who use P2P to download illegal stuff.
Btw, anyone noticed that Canada appears to be a freerer country than USA when it comes to the Internet ? I wonder why our americans friends don't defend their liberties more.

P2P , File Sharing , Broadcasting Legal in CANADA (1)

Moulinneuf (844899) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336099)

"P2P is not legal in Canada"

Wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_sharing#Canada.2 7s_approach_to_P2P_and_copyright [wikipedia.org]

Judge: File Sharing is Legal in Canada.

http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5182641.html [com.com]

"As you stated, uploading copyrighted music is illegal in Canada"

Wrong

CANADA stand for Courageous Americans Noble Americans Defenders of America , C A N A D A.

The law are made to protect the right and privilege of the people in America , we pay taxes for the privilege to legally share files , we earn what we have , we dont steal it because where thief or dont like to pay taxes.

Merry Christmas and happy Holydays.

It's more about global licence (4, Informative)

Pierre Carrey (806548) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336002)

Just to be precise : the 2 amendments voted are first steps towards the introduction of a global licence for download of video and musical content. People will be able to download content legally if they pay somehow for it. The next step should be to introduce a tax in the internet access fees in order to make the download fully legal.
BUT, that is if the amendements are really fully accepted. The government is trying to reverse the movement and cancel the amendments (the bill intended at first was supposed to forbid P2P and be a real pain in the a**). The debates should start over in mid january.
(Sorry, no english links to provide, everything I wrote is from french sites (ratiatum.com, liberation.fr))

Re:It's more about global licence (2, Interesting)

aaribaud (585182) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336075)

Debates might well end on jan 17, what with the government being in such a hurry that they formally declared urgency on passing this law. And while they're agreeing on creating a committee to study the problem, such a committee would be entirely on their side to boot.

However, there is a sligh chance that things turn out not so bad (1) if proponents of free software and of personal use voice their concern loud enough before jan 17, and chances still if they don't give up after jan 17.

(for the French ppl out there, I've started a french-language journal on users' rights (as opposed to authors' or publishers' rights). I won't publish its URL here because i) this might lead to ./ing, which would hurt my website provider, and ii) this might lead to absolutely no hit increase, which would hurt my heart, si just send me an e-mail if you want the URL.

Albert.

(1) considering that the current amendments do not legalize P2P at all (only downloading) and that many others hurt personal use rights (copying your own paid DVDs for your own private use would be counterfeiting) as well as free software use (reading your own paid DVDs with VLC / Mplayer / whatever is available as source code would be counterfeiting as well).

Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336003)

Good, We Should Be Allowed To Share What We Have Too... Who Cares About The Media Company, They Are All Thieves..

So stop withholding the product (4, Interesting)

mikeswi (658619) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336058)


"...free downloading of unauthorized copies of TV shows and movies before they are released on DVD will cost them $5 billion in revenue this year."





Poor babies. If they don't want me downloading movies before they are released to DVD (officially), then they need to release the damn things sooner.




I buy a lot of DVDs. I have a small shelf, four levels, full of DVDs, with a box filled with more DVDs right next to it. I despise movie theaters. I'm not going to one, except in very rare cases. But I will see the movie, regardless.




I can't wait for that company Morgan Freeman has founded to start operating. Downloads of movies released at the same time they are released to the theaters.




The MPAA and RIAA needs to accept the fact that they cannot ignore the internet or the consumer. They don't want to work with the internet, because they fear piracy. So either they won't release anything on the internet or they wrap it in obnoxious DRM and at low quality. And in doing that, they are directly responsible for most of the file trading. If the INDUCE Act ever becomes law, they will be its biggest offenders.

Re:So stop withholding the product (5, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336125)

They don't want to work with the internet, because they fear piracy.
Well considering the way the general populace of the internet has behaved, I don't blame them.

And in doing that, they are directly responsible for most of the file trading.
False. Movies are traded on P2P because people like getting shit for free. There's really no philosophy, unless it's mentioned and people hide behind one "Uh yeah, cause I can't buy it. Right." It's only a question of whether it's J-Random-Warezd00d or the studio releasing it unprotected first. The feeding frenzy that is p2p trading would be just as vigorous.

Re:So stop withholding the product (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336286)

Well considering the way the general populace of the internet has behaved, I don't blame them.

Funny, I started dowonloading music/films (to which I am legally entitled in my country) as a direct consequence of MPAA/RIAA/SGAE/whichever obnoxious behaviour. I used to buy CDs/DVDs before, and I still do sometimes but certainly much less often than I used to. If you ask my opinion, they got what they were asking for.

False. Movies are traded on P2P because people like getting shit for free. There's really no philosophy

Talk for yourself. I believe in rewarding the artists for their hard work, but object to supporting mafias.

Not free (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336405)

"Movies are traded on P2P because people like getting shit for free. "

It's not free, they have a risk of getting a civil copyright violation, plus a time penalty (1-2 weeks to download a movie vs near instant to get a DVD). The penalties are already so extreme as to bankrupt a family for a single violation.

"It's only a question of whether it's J-Random-Warezd00d or the studio releasing it unprotected first."

Depends if the price charged is greater than the penalty risk. On the one hand you can download the moview from WarezRUs at a risk $Y*P (Penalty * Probability of getting Caught), or you could download the movie a lot faster for $X from the studio. If $X $Y*P then you'd pay. The problem is you can't download the movie you want in the format you want legally.

Do you buy your vegetables from the supermarket or go dig them out of a farmers field? Do you buy petrol from the garage or find a car parked out of view and siphon it from that?
They're other examples of $X $Y*P.

Re:So stop withholding the product (1)

Mr. Hankey (95668) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336408)

People trade movies on the internet because they want to be able to download it easily. Seriously, look at the ads used to sell ADSL or Cable internet services. "Download music and videos faster" is their typical sales mantra. The problem at this point is that there isn't an easy way to download videos legally. If a quick and easy, yet legal way to download video content that people want becomes available, one that doesn't involve jumping through hoops of DRM fire to get at the content, I assure you a lot of money will be made. If not, people will continue to find easier ways to get what they want. Convenience is king.

I'll give credit where it's due, there are now several good and legal ways to download a lot of music. This is not based on the RIAA's actions however, unless you count their Russian counterpart.

how will they know (1)

digitallysick (922589) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336106)

how will they know if your from france, downloading legaly, or from the us, doing it illeagly? lol French Proxy w00t!

A rose.wav by a different name... (1)

Ticklemonster (736987) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336113)

This works for me. I can hear, for free, pretty much any music I want over broadcast radio. I have to wait to hear what I want, but still, it's free, and is of higher quality than mp3s. I can record these also, and still have better quality than an mp3.

If I were to download a song illegally in mp3 format, then what's the big deal? To me, the product that the artists put out for sale are far superior to mp3s, so what I have can hardly be considered "their product" now can it? Wellll, yeah, but I mean it's like the difference between a kindergarten class performing Tommy as compared to going to see the Who do it live...

Movies, too. You can't get a decent movie downloaded online (from what I hear) that will compare toe to toe with a dvd or what you can see in a theater. Personally, if I were to find the album "White Mansions" on cd in a store, I'd buy it right up. I don't like country music, and am not an apologist for the old south, but that is one killer album with some really pretty music on it. But if I had a chance to get an mp3 of it, I'd snatch it up in a heartbeat, and still buy the cd if I found it later. (just found my audio cable that I can use to hook my turn table equiped stereo up to my sound card and record the vinyl disk album to my hard drive so I can finally burn a cd of it. For those of you who wonder that I am talking about, they used to make these huge plastic disks that ... never mind, you wouldn't believe me if I told you. But trust me, a good one on a good turn table on a good stereo blows cds away.)

Re:A rose.wav by a different name... (1)

yincrash (854885) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336259)

I don't know what mp3s you have, but all of mine are definitely higher quality than broadcast radio.

This is going down (5, Insightful)

Lewisham (239493) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336120)

For those that can't be bothered to RTFA, down the bottom you'll see:

"The amendment was approved 30 to 28, with 22 members of the UMP voting in favor. While there are 577 members of the lower house, few were present for last night's vote."

And if you look back up the article (obviously the author was trying to sensationalise this):

"The government can overturn the amendment, either by re- opening debate or if the Senate votes it down when the bill moves to the upper house. French Culture Minister Renaud Donnedieu de Vabres has asked that parliament re-open debate on the amendment today, Agence France Presse reported."

So only one-tenth of the house were present for the amendment. It seems like everyone else had gone home. 22 of the votes in favour were by a (what appears to be) minority party. As soon as parliament reconvenes, this will be gone. It's way too crazy/stupid/radical, I very much doubt the majority party want this, and you'd need a serious rebellion from that party in order to push this through.

It's not news so much as a political machination that happens all the time ("Quick! They're asleep! Slip in that amendment!")

Re:This is going down (2, Informative)

jon1012 (831761) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336165)

Mhh.. UMP is the majority party in France (they are right-wing), but they do this to actually gain popularity and remove this amendment later.

Re:This is going down (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336184)

UMP is actually the *majority* party. Although there is a fair chance that the amendment will be overruled in January, the reason why this is such a major blow to the government is that this amendment was voted for not only by the opposition but by a even greater number (22 of 30) of its own majority.

Re:This is going down (1)

tony1343 (910042) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336220)

I'm confused. One tenth of the Parliament can vote on something? Don't you need a quorum to conduct business? It seems ridiculous to allow such a small part of Parliament to conduct business. Then again, I guess you don't have to worry about long and boring quorum calls.

Re:This is going down (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336237)

The rule of the "Assemblée Nationale" (one house of the French Parliement) theoretically requires a quorum of half the representatives plus one. This is never applied though. Any representative can ask the debate to be interrupted for one hour "to check if the quorum is met", but after the break, the debate can start again whatever.

The amendments have been subject to a "public vote": an electronic voting system so that each present representative can represent an absent collegue. There were about 30 representatives present for the vote.

Economic shot across the bow... (2, Interesting)

xoip (920266) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336137)

France loves American culture but wants to preserve their own. By alowing free access, it takes money out of the pockets of the large media interests and makes it less likely that they will be subjected to American films and save themselves the agony of bad translations.

Legalize or illegalize illegalization? (1)

Douglas Simmons (628988) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336151)

Sounds stupid but it makes a big difference. In US Supreme Court cases -- Roe v Wade for example -- the SC does not "legalize abortion," rather, it in effect illegalizes states from passing laws prohibiting the practice. So if you think states ought to have the right to pass any law the elected officials choose, this type of precedent limits freedom. How does this line up with the France P2P situation?

Re:Legalize or illegalize illegalization? (1)

Stelminator (856547) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336311)

SCOTUS doesn't have the power to make anything illegal. They do have the power to decide cases. In deciding cases, they have the power to effectively nullify laws. This is because once something has been decided in SCOTUS, lower courts can't really contradict this without giving instant grounds for an appeal. This can then make it's way back up to SCOTUS, which could overturn the previous SCOTUS decision.

To summarize: SCOTUS cannot make anything illegal, they can only nullify laws. This is not the same as repealing them.

btw, I realize you said "in effect illegalizes", I don't disagree, just wanted to clarify a bit.

This MUST be stopped! (0, Flamebait)

tomcres (925786) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336156)

The last thing we need is more French language content floating around the internet. Hopefully, in 5 or 10 years, all the French will speak Arabic. Much preferable to that awful language they now speak.

Re:This MUST be stopped! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336203)

I'd rather hear French than having France turned into Frankistan and joining jihad against the West and I'd rather see beautiful French women rather than seeing them covered from head to toes.

not funny (0)

k00110 (932544) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336231)

What's with people picking on French lately. French are peaceful people just like Canadians and do not deserve the growing racism toward them lately.

Re:not funny (1)

tomcres (925786) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336243)

That's exactly why we don't like them.. because they're just like the Canadians!

Re:not funny (1)

Gobelet (892738) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336253)

Well most of the French youth like the USA, and everything around your culture... Why do you hate us so much? You think we wash ourselves only once a week? Well old people in farms are doing this. Oh and we have less farmers than you (proportionally of course).

We have our kind of "rednecks" too... So stop thinking everyone here is like that. That's absolutely not the case.

- Gobelet, fighting against Fox News propaganda

Re:not funny (1)

tomcres (925786) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336292)

Actually, I thought it was the Germans that only washed themselves once a week. Seriously, I was an exchange student in Nuernberg, and my host family was shocked that I wanted to shower every day. They thought it was very wasteful of water. I also had to get used to wearing clothes twice before laundering them.

Honestly, I think the problem that most folks have with France, Germany, and Canada are that those governments and those people have been extraordinarily outspoken in criticizing everything the U.S. government does, whether we're right or wrong, seem to look down in disdain at us in their natural superiority, all the while ignoring their own faults. France dares criticize the U.S. for racism and its attitude towards Arabs while Arabs are rioting in the streets of Paris demanding fair treatment. We've faced plenty of criticism from the UK. The UK may be with us in some things, but they're against us in others. But the UK at least shows an air of respect, not the condescension we get from France.

You lecture us on democracy. You were the ones who within a decade of the founding of your Republic, empowered Napoleon! You practically welcomed the Nazi troops invading Paris. You lecture us on multiculturalism and yet treat Arabs like third-class citizens and don't give them the same religious and civil freedoms that you demand the U.S. give to people living here! And then you wonder why we wouldn't mind France sinking to the bottom of the ocean someday? Hmmm...

Re:not funny (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336317)

France dares criticize the U.S. for racism and its attitude towards Arabs while Arabs are rioting in the streets of Paris demanding fair treatment.

I'm French. I live near Paris, in the suburbs, and I can tell you that the riotist are not only arabs. It was a social issue, not a racial issue.
You've been watching Fox News a bit too much lately.

Re:not funny (1)

k00110 (932544) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336368)

And what do you think are Canada own faults ? Canada are trying to do things right with a limited budget, it's not perfect but at least it tries.

Jeez... (2, Funny)

Deadstick (535032) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336190)

...first cellphone jammers and now P2P. Maybe they didn't name 'em Freedom Fries for nothing.

rj

Please let change happen (3, Interesting)

grumpygrodyguy (603716) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336202)

The free sharing of resources and pooling of indexed harddisks, what a tragedy.

The grandest vision of the early ftp/http devs has come to pass, and now everyone wants to put the ship back in the bottle. Screw all of you naysayers, this is what the internet was for...the free sharing of information.

I'm sorry so many of you think abundance is such a threat to your livelyhood.

Maybe you should back politcal change in the form of progressive solutions instead of trying to cram decades of legacy materialistic thinking down the proverbial throats of your children's future.

Please let change happen-to someone else. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336365)

"The grandest vision of the early ftp/http devs has come to pass, and now everyone wants to put the ship back in the bottle. Screw all of you naysayers, this is what the internet was for...the free sharing of information."

The only people who spout this drivel, are those who have nothing that people would want.*

*Most likely because they don't actually have anything to give.

"Maybe you should back politcal change in the form of progressive solutions instead of trying to cram decades of legacy materialistic thinking down the proverbial throats of your children's future."

Content provider to Grumpy Guts: "You better buy this content, else your wive and kids are going to get it. Kapeesh!"

Everything I've Ever Known Is Upside Down (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336206)

Freedom France? :-?

Doesn't matter if the country says it's ok (sot) (1)

rikkards (98006) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336240)

If the Internet Provider decides to set up bandwidth shaping to limit p2p traffic, it is going to suck.

Rogers in Canada has set Bittorrent traffic to lowest priority which for me has made it take days instead of hours to download anything. Instead of getting decent speeds, I am lucky if I get 17k. I have heard this has also affected iTunes.

Course Sympatico hasn't set up a cap (too bad I can't get DSL in my neighbourhood) but this remains to be seen..

Re:Doesn't matter if the country says it's ok (sot (1)

k00110 (932544) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336322)

It's Rogers new policy, everything that takes bandwidth has to be cut to allow "unlimmited" bandwidth. As long as they get your money it doesn't matter for them. Unlimited my ass.

Re:Doesn't matter if the country says it's ok (sot (1)

alain_f (941310) | more than 8 years ago | (#14336356)

In France at least, p2p is the main factor for the development of high-speed internet access (cable and DSL). If one ISP decides to limit bandwidth, it will immediatly loose customers.

Tax (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14336274)

Well, if they legalized it, then all french citizen would need pay tax for it. Even the 80 year old elderly who dont know what a computer is must pay tax for something they dont use or download or benefit from.

Also france is the idiots who want to ban free software!
http://www.fsf.org/news/dadvsi-letter.html [fsf.org]
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