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360 Disc Scratching Serious Problem

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the watch-what-you-play dept.

XBox (Games) 470

Though Microsoft has previously stated that a reported problem where Xbox 360s may be scratching game discs was relatively rare, it's apparently common enough that rental agency GameFly has an official policy on the problem. From Gamasutra: "We have received reports that certain XBOX 360 consoles have caused damage to GameFly videogames. Unfortunately, we have been notified that you recently returned a damaged XBOX 360 game. As a precaution, we have removed all XBOX 360 games from your GameQ. Please contact Microsoft at 1-800-4MY-XBOX. Please do not rent XBOX 360 games until you have resolved this issue. In the future, should GameFly receive XBOX 360 games from you that have been damaged, you will be charged a replacement fee."

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First Post (-1, Offtopic)

Susannchen (942563) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378005)

first post

Re:First Post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378009)

I second that.

I second that (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378011)

I second that

Re:I second that (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378047)

Motion passed.

Re:I second that (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378051)

Indeed...

simple solution.. (5, Insightful)

mustafap (452510) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378010)

Just make a copy of it first, and play the copy inste... ah. silly me.

Re:simple solution.. (1)

Fred Or Alive (738779) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378031)

Even if you could, we're talking about a rental service, so it's not your game to copy.

Re:simple solution.. (5, Insightful)

mustafap (452510) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378046)

>so it's not your game to copy.

I completely agree it's not mine to copy, but it will become mine pretty damned quickly if I scratch it. And I bet I would be charged the full game price as a replacement.

Maybe the rental company should have backups. Kind of makes me nervous about renting games now.

we're screwed with blue-ray. (5, Interesting)

User 956 (568564) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378131)

I completely agree it's not mine to copy, but it will become mine pretty damned quickly if I scratch it. And I bet I would be charged the full game price as a replacement. Maybe the rental company should have backups. Kind of makes me nervous about renting games now.

This kind of blows a big hole in the *AA's argument that all this copy protection BS is really about preventing piracy. It seems to me that more and more, it's about getting the customer to buy multiple copies of the same content.

This point is even more obvious when you look at the way the Blue-ray copy protection works [cdfreaks.com] . If you get even the tiniest scratch on the ROM MARK on the disc, the disc is UNUSABLE. Doesn't matter if the rest of the surface of the disc is pristine, your $30 movie is now worthless. (yes, $30, you know they're going to charge 2x or 3x what a normal DVD costs).

That spells it out pretty clearly. The future is downloaded movies. And music. and games. And no, I'm not talking about DRM'ed ones that you pay for.

Re:we're screwed with blue-ray. (1)

Ucklak (755284) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378219)

You know, I wonder(and we will see) if HD-DVD might win by default if the so called rom-mark has issues. If a mastered Disney movie gets screwed up then distributed then continues to render all the Blu-Ray players useless, what kind of lawsuits wil we see happen.
Mastering glitches happen all the time and the only one that comes to mind is the Back To The Future glitch that the studio replaced.

It seems like instead of going after the criminals that sell copied movies out of their trunk, they're making the consumer a type of police and forcing them to jump through hoops (by having players that can self destruct and buying BD+ discs). BluRay will be able to be copied especially once DVD-Jon gets a hold of one.

Re:simple solution.. (2, Informative)

JLennox (942693) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378234)

Block Buster did attempt to start using flash carts for the Genesis console prior to its death. The idea never set foot, and I'm not sure if this is due to legal reasons, but they did, of course, intend to own proper lisencing for all of these games.

Re:simple solution.. (5, Interesting)

alexhs (877055) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378032)

Only one comment and someone already came with the same point I would have written...
But I don't think it's funny, it's just the normal use of a backup copy...
GameFly shouldn't charge its customers but instead ask the game editor for a disk replacement. After all, they're not buying discs but licenses, right ?

Re:simple solution.. (4, Insightful)

chrismcdirty (677039) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378093)

You're paying for a license to play the game until you need a backup copy of the game. But when you do need a copy, you're suddenly paying for the physical media.

Re:simple solution.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378120)

policy says 'replacement fee' not 'full purchase price'. It's reasonable to think you'd be charged for the media plus s/h. And, as a company, you can choose to pass this to the customer responsible for the damage after one fair warning. After all if you have a deffective console you want the issue solved before the warranty expires.

Re:simple solution.. (1)

alexhs (877055) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378168)

You're paying for a license to play the game until you need a backup copy of the game. But when you do need a copy, you're suddenly paying for the physical media.

What I meant is that if you're technically denied the legal (*) right to make backup copies, you should be entitled the right to get a new copy if the original one is damaged without paying for a 2nd license. Now of course it would be OK to pay the nickel that costs the media, you're paying it anyway when making a backup by yourself, but the cost is so low it would be good PR to give it for free.

(*) I'm somewhat confused, it's legal in some countries like France and Canada, but is it in the U.S. ?

Re:simple solution.. (2, Informative)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378096)

Unless the x360 changed that, console games are NOT licensed, they are bought. There is no EULA in console games and the only contract applying to them is the sales contract.

Re:simple solution.. (3, Informative)

sqlrob (173498) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378106)

No EULA? No click-through is more accurate.

Go look in the back of the manual.

Re:simple solution.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378159)

Or not, I don't see how they can enforce something you haven't even seen much less read or agreed to.

Re:simple solution.. (1)

sqlrob (173498) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378170)

Shrinkwrap licenses have been upheld recently with the printer decision (Lexmark, IIRC)

Re:simple solution.. (2, Informative)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378207)

Lexmark sold ink cartridges for a reduced price if the user agreed to returning the empty cartridge to Lexmark afterwards. This was a special offer known at the time of purchase. I.e. that'd be a contract between you and Lexmark established when you buy the product. You can choose not to agree to that and pay the regular price instead.

Re:simple solution.. (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378198)

No, nothing there. Maybe a notice on the rating system or (less and less common) the developer credits but nothing that would qualify as an EULA.

Re:simple solution.. (2, Informative)

sqlrob (173498) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378245)

What game did you look at?

I double checked San Andreas before posting, and I remember seeing it in Champions of Norrath.

In San Andreas, it's the section labelled "Warranty".

Re:simple solution.. (1)

cgenman (325138) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378148)

Not to derail your point, which is well taken, but they're probably just sending them off to be resurfaced. DVD resurfacing is a well-known trade, and professional no-risk resurfacing can cost 5 - 10 dollars. I'm guessing GameFly would have volume discount relationships with resurfacing vendors to drive that down a bit, or has bought their own professional resurfacing machine for 2 - 20k and has figured out how to use it.

I seriously doubt that the scratching gets bad enough to penetrate to the data layer, so they shouldn't need to re-buy.

not necessarily (1)

User 956 (568564) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378178)

I seriously doubt that the scratching gets bad enough to penetrate to the data layer, so they shouldn't need to re-buy.

They didn't say whether the discs were getting scratched on the bottom, or the top. The bottom has a pretty thick clear layer, but the data layer is not protected as heavily on the top. Take a pair of scissors to the top of a DVD-R or CD-R and you'll see what I mean. it's easy to scrape the data layer right off.

Re:not necessarily (1)

aed (156746) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378214)

That's true only for CD(r)'s...
In case of DVD's however, the datalayer is in the middle of the disc, between two clear layers of equal thickness. So damaging the datalayer of a DVD is equally easy (or difficult) from both sides of the disc.
This is true for both dual- as singlelayer discs.

Re:not necessarily (1)

User 956 (568564) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378222)

So damaging the datalayer of a DVD is equally easy (or difficult) from both sides of the disc.

So this means one of two things. Either the XBOX 360 discs are terribly flimsy, or the "scratching problem" means some of the consoles are terribly defective. terrific.

Re:not necessarily (1)

Halfbaked Plan (769830) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378265)

No, it means, as the grandparent wrote:

It they're probably just sending them off to be resurfaced. DVD resurfacing is a well-known trade, and professional no-risk resurfacing can cost 5 - 10 dollars.


Not complicated. It costs them money to fix the scratches, they charge for it.

Unlikely to happen.. (1)

Dr_Barnowl (709838) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378152)

They hate rental outfits.
Sony, of course, have gone so far as to engineer around them ever happening.

Re:simple solution.. (1)

bigman2003 (671309) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378156)

I don't think that any of the game publishers would want to cooperate with Gamefly. This is exactly the type of business that loses the publishers money.

I would guess that I would get better service calling about a disk with an error than Gamefly would.

Re:simple solution.. (1)

alexhs (877055) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378264)

> I don't think that any of the game publishers would want to cooperate with Gamefly.

It's not about cooperation but law...

(pasting from another of my comments in that thread)
If you're technically denied the legal (*) right to make backup copies, you should be entitled the right to get a new copy if the original one is damaged without paying for a 2nd license.

But rental shops probably do not get the same terms of license than the usual customer (they aren't exactly "End User"), and my percedent post is consequently probably somewhat off-base.

(*) I'm somewhat confused, it's legal in some countries like France and Canada, but is it in the U.S. ?

Re:simple solution.. (1)

dow (7718) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378087)

There used to be some games on the Amiga that suggested as the new owner of the game that the first thing you should do is make a copy of the game disks and play from those instead. Gunship 2000 I think was one, but I can't actually remember as I had a hard disk which made needing the disks at all unessesary. You would think I would have had a disk full of borrowed software, but you'd be wrong.

Whoa... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378012)

Would you please stop ridiculing XBox360 fanboys?

I've spend $400 on that console and don't want to hear bad news about it.

Why not? (0, Redundant)

gcnaddict (841664) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378237)

When Microsoft rushes something out the door (in this case, the XBox 360), there will be problems which inevitably show up. In any case, you have a warranty on it, and should Microsoft ever acknowledge that there is anything wrong with the game consoles, you can get a full repair/replacement :-)

By the way:
"I've spend $400 on that console and don't want to hear bad news about it."
The perfect active indicitive would be "spent," not "spend."

Re:Whoa... (0, Troll)

jo42 (227475) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378299)

> I've spend $400

Once again, proving without a doubt, that a fool and their money are soon parted.

Walmart took back my scratched disk... (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378016)

Just an FYI. I don't know if they will still do that, but their 'accept all return' policy is handy for this...

More problems? (5, Interesting)

LoRdTAW (99712) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378017)

And I thought Microsoft has enough of a back eye with faulty power supplies, bad consoles and some people even having defective accessories like the hdd and wireless controllers. This 360 roll out looks to be seriously rushed in order to get a one up on Sony. Unfortunatly they keep tripping over there own feet.

Re:More problems? (2, Funny)

interiot (50685) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378050)

Their not the only ones tripping over they're own feat.

Re:More problems? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378073)

Just because the grandparent post used the wrong there, you decide to use the other two wrong!
Should have been modded "funny" :P

Re:More problems? (1)

interiot (50685) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378190)

I just find it funny that:

  1. A lot of people who are not-so-important like to get their kicks by putting down others. Not to say that corporations are remotely perfect, but once internet posters get going, they have a tendency to go overboard.
  2. "Unfortunatly they keep tripping over there own feet.", I mean, c'mon, how can that not be parodied? That was a perfect setup.

Re:More problems? (4, Funny)

Tim Browse (9263) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378108)

and some people even having defective accessories like the hdd and wireless controllers.

You mean some people have bought accessories for a large scale global consumer product, and some of them are faulty?

Say it aint so! This is brand new information!

Re:More problems? (5, Insightful)

SuiteSisterMary (123932) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378166)

Yeah. Don't you just love how nobody mentions the massive flaws and return rates for the launches of the Playstation 1, the Dreamcast, and the Playstation 2?

Re:More problems? (1)

Halfbaked Plan (769830) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378273)

Well, those weren't Popular Microsoft Products.

Nothing incites a slagfest at Slashdot like a popular product from Microsoft.

(There are a few, ya know)

Re:More problems? (1)

cheaphomemadeacid (881971) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378110)

yeah! and that from a big respected company like microsoft, i'm shocked i say, shocked!

Re:More problems? (1)

LoudMusic (199347) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378255)

This 360 roll out looks to be seriously rushed in order to get a one up on Sony. Unfortunatly they keep tripping over there own feet.

Was there ever any doubt? You'd have to be crazy to buy a game console in the initial run. Unless it's Nintendo - they pretty much do their own thing (:

Same thing happened with the original Xbox... (2, Interesting)

EvilCabbage (589836) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378023)

... gave them a huge black eye in the japanese market they never really recovered from over there.

Sucks to be in Microsoft hardware right about now, thought they would have learned their lesson five fucken' years ago.

Re:Same thing happened with the original Xbox... (2, Insightful)

interiot (50685) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378150)

Sucks to be in Microsoft hardware right about now, thought they would have learned their lesson five fucken' years ago.
That the japanese market is extremely insular? You really can't compare incumbent Japanese companies to outside companies, and try to draw straightforward conclusions, because Japanese consumers in many markets prefer Japanese brands.

Re:Same thing happened with the original Xbox... (2, Insightful)

richardablitt (897338) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378161)

From what I've heard, the lack of success in Japan comes from the games available for the 360. They tend to be more interested in strategy/rpgs rather than first person shooters.

Re:Same thing happened with the original Xbox... (1)

Achromatic1978 (916097) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378231)

Yeah... and all those NFL/NHL/NBA franchise games, funnily enough, don't get much attention anywhere other than America, unsurprisingly. ;)

I wish... (2, Insightful)

Private Taco (808864) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378025)

...I could fuck up things as often as Micro$oft and still pull in metric tons of money...

Re:I wish... (3, Insightful)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378099)

I could fuck up things as often as Micro$oft and still pull in metric tons of money.

That's the problem with them, and why so many of us are critical of them. They fuck things up, and we have to keep paying for it with our time, expertise and cash. It's called an abuse of monopoly power.

Re:I wish... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378174)

You are acting as if alternative consoles do not exist. You have a *choice* of other consoles.

Re:I wish... (3, Insightful)

JDooty1234 (253000) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378302)

How did this comment get modded "Insightful"? Seriously, Microsoft has to have done something right to have come this far and have as much force as they do in the market, even if it's not video games and hardware that they excel at. Among questionable business practices and glaringly lacking browser functionality, there are some redeeming qualities.

I wish I could own a company that, even though tons of idiots deride my success, can continue to succeed and innovate as much (or as little) as Microsoft.

They should rename that thingy... (2, Funny)

ceeam (39911) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378030)

XBox360? How 'bout Happy-Fun-XBox?

Re:They should rename that thingy... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378053)

Happy FUN XBox!

-only $414.95-

Warning: Pregnant women, the elderly and children under 10 should avoid prolonged exposure to Happy Fun XBox.
Caution: Happy Fun XBox may suddenly accelerate to dangerous speeds.
Happy Fun XBox Contains a liquid core, which, if exposed due to rupture, should not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Do not use Happy Fun XBox on concrete and/or carpets.

Discontinue use of Happy Fun XBox if any of the following occurs:
Itching
Vertigo
Dizziness
Tingling in extremities
Loss of balance or coordination
Slurred speech
Temporary blindness
Profuse sweating
Heart palpitations

If Happy Fun XBox begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head.

Happy Fun XBox may stick to certain types of skin.

When not in use, Happy Fun XBox should be returned to its special container and kept under refrigeration...

Failure to do so relieves the makers of Happy Fun XBox, Microsoft Corp, of any and all liability.

Ingredients of Happy Fun XBox include an unknown glowing substance which fell to Earth, presumably from outer space.

Happy Fun XBox has been shipped to our troops in Saudi Arabia and is also being dropped by our warplanes on Iraq.

Do not taunt Happy Fun XBox.

Happy Fun XBox comes with a lifetime guarantee.

Happy Fun XBox

ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!

Re:They should rename that thingy... (1)

barefootgenius (926803) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378117)

or, "XBox360. Right where you started."

Re:They should rename that thingy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378191)

XBOX reach around edition....

Seems like a fair, user-friendly policy (5, Interesting)

MadCow42 (243108) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378034)

I'd continue doing business with them anyways. They're making the user aware of a real problem, but not charging them for the first damaged disc(s). It's only fair that damages after they're made aware of the issue are chargeable.

Most companies would charge for the first discs too - after all, it's the rental company that's most likely to have to swallow the cost (unless Microsoft coughs up... how likely is that to a rental house?).

Kudos to them...

MadCow.

Re:Seems like a fair, user-friendly policy (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378052)

I agree. The rental policy is fair, and I think that's generally what discussion has concluded.

The big issue here is the flaw of the player's relationship with its media. That's a real problem that Microsoft definitely should have learned years ago. That sort of thing should be a base issue now in two thousand freakin' six.

Sucks to be Mircrosoft.

Oh wait, they keep earning money even when the customer gets screwed. Nevermind.

Re:Seems like a fair, user-friendly policy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378084)

Totally agree, great policy. My self-awareness-check-post-password is, appropriately enough, "nicest".

Why all the bad press? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378040)

Sometimes I wonder if a competing company is behind some of these stories.

At a minimum, the headline of "360 Disc Scratching Serious Problem" is a little sensationalist, no?

Just because a game rental company comes up with an official policy to deal with an issue, doesn't mean that issue is a "serious problem" - usually it just means that it happened often enough that they wanted to put something down on paper to reduce support calls. (And, frankly, warning users that their consoles might be causing disk damage is a good idea. But that isn't something that's limited to the 360. PS2s have been known to scratch disks as well.)

What about posting a story about the majority of Xbox 360 users that don't have any problems, instead of the (vocal) small percentage who do? Or maybe a story about the fast turnaround time of Xbox 360 tech support? (5-7 days for a brand new / fixed console, for a friend of mine)

I can honestly say that I have not had a single problem since I got my Xbox 360 on release day. (I am waiting on some games to push the hardware to its max, but that's a separate issue.)

Re:Why all the bad press? (5, Insightful)

Fred Or Alive (738779) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378083)

Because positive stories ("Man very happy with Xbox 360 technical support") don't make good news.

Re:Why all the bad press? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378085)

(5-7 days for a brand new / fixed console, for a friend of mine)

So, which was it? Did your friend get a brand new console, or did they fix his existing one?

Look in the perspective (1)

KZigurs (638781) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378115)

Hmm, let's lok at this the following way:

Rental agencies always have some percentage of damaged returns - that's part of the business that is taken into account.
Posting a note that there may be a problem with product X from a company Y that prevents user to rent specific products for that product from the company has two following effects:
  * Company Y, especially if the product X may suffer from the bad press of aknowledgement that there is a problem with a product may and probably will take notice. Take into perspective the particular company Y and try to guess what their reaction could be? As far as I know the XBox games offered for rent are licensed from renting directly from company Y (correct me if I am wrong)
  * Client of the rental company receives essentially a slap from the company - of course this is not good for the relations with the particular customer as well. Customers bring money, and in the rental business money is made from long-term relations with the customers.

---

Now, come and think about it. What could have pushed this particular rental company to actually raise this issue, offend its supplier and aleniate a customer, if some specific percentage of damaged goods are already calculated in the costs of business?

Ya still think there isn't a problem?

Re:Why all the bad press? (3, Funny)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378171)

Yeah, stories like "Plane crashes, 300 dead" are sensationalist, why don't they write stories about the billions of people who didn't die that day?

Re:Why all the bad press? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378276)

>>Yeah, stories like "Plane crashes, 300 dead" are sensationalist, why don't they write stories about the billions of people who didn't die that day?

Why not?

I sure wouldn't mind hearing more about all the good things that happen every day.

Oh but wait - that's right. Bad stories get higher ratings, don't they?

Re:Why all the bad press? (4, Insightful)

MilenCent (219397) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378228)

What about posting a story about the majority of Xbox 360 users that don't have any problems, instead of the (vocal) small percentage who do? Or maybe a story about the fast turnaround time of Xbox 360 tech support? (5-7 days for a brand new / fixed console, for a friend of mine)

I can honestly say that I have not had a single problem since I got my Xbox 360 on release day. (I am waiting on some games to push the hardware to its max, but that's a separate issue.)


So, until it happens to you, the problem doesn't exist?

I've heard about the scratching problem on X-Box 360s from more places than this article. If a "majority" are okay, it doesn't mean it's not a problem. If any systems are scratching disks then it's a risk. The question is, is it an *acceptable* disk? If just 5% of X-box 360s scratched disks so they became unplayable, then that's bad enough that Microsoft deserves more than just a black eye for it.

Microsoft needs to acknowledge the problem, issue a statement on it, and offer to replace any affected X-box 360s *and games* with a minimum of fuss. The systems should be under warrenty at the moment so that shouldn't be a problem right now, but what about the games affected? And what if the problem only shows up after the system is out of the warrenty period?

Didn't some rumors like this start floating around, something about failing optical drives, when the PS2 was released?

Re:Why all the bad press? (1)

Halfbaked Plan (769830) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378293)


Didn't some rumors like this start floating around, something about failing optical drives, when the PS2 was released?


Shush now. We're busy hating Microsoft. We'll hate Sony in a few other stories.

Not like Java (1)

Uukrul (835197) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378238)

Sometimes I wonder if a competing company is behind some of these stories.

Not like Java [google.com]
Geeks are geeks because what they love, but also what they hate.

Microsoft has also a reputation for selling unfinished products, if people (consumers) don't know it they are going to continue buying faulty Microsoft products.

Re:Why all the bad press? (1)

stinkjones (882074) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378282)

I happen to have a 360 myself. I have also had 0 problems since launch day. I have actually accidentally knocked the console over from vertical to horizontal WHILE PLAYING Madden 2006. I was like "Oh Shit!" because I had heard of the scratching issue. I thought to myself, "That game is fucked, I'll have to return it to those gamestop bastards". I looked at the disc when I removed it, and viola! No scratches! I don't know if I got lucky, but the 360 has performed exactly to my liking. Or maybe I am just one of the few non-retarded people who bought this console, so I have no problem using it. Hmmmm...

vocal small percentage? (1)

speedfreak_5 (546044) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378292)

You might not want to use that phrase. The problem isn't lessened when is just a few people experiencing it. That and the people I've heard use that phrase *cough*Congressmen!*clears throat* generally have something to hide or don't want you to think about when they say that.

And here we see yet another reason... (4, Insightful)

lxs (131946) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378043)

...to wait at least a year after launch before buying a new console. In addition to the cost savings, a chance to check out the competition, and developers learning to fully use the power of the new system.

Re:And here we see yet another reason... (1)

pmancini (20121) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378194)

That has been my thinking. I have a regular XBOX and I won't even consider the new one until it has HD-DVD support. There is no point in me owning an HD-DVD player AND a console. My First Generation DVD player was replaced by my XBOX. I prefer to minimize my components and this is an obvious one. Finally, early-adopter headaches like what most people are seeing now won't affect me if I just wait and enjoy what I currently have.

Fair policy (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378055)

All drives can do this when you turn them quickly during highspeed disc reading. It is the same thing that happens when you try to turn a spinning wheel from a cycle.

People should learn not to move their hardware through various positions when using it.
IMO, it's fair enough to request that the loaner replaces the damaged disc, if they are properly informed about it before they rent a game.

-JaL

Re:Fair policy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378107)

IMO, it's fair enough to request that the loaner replaces the damaged disc, if they are properly informed about it before they rent a game.

As long as it's only the disc and not the license. The media is very cheap.

Years ago I damaged a VHS tape, and I had to pay almost 100 USD! They said they had to buy a new license, which was very expensive, but customers only paid a small part of it.
I suggested they suggested to their supplier that they paid separately for media and licenses, because the tapes a really very cheap and I didn't damage the license. I don't think she understood me. :-/

Yet another reason why.. (5, Interesting)

codeTurtle (942468) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378076)

...I won't be getting a 360 til the end of it's lifecycle. It's clearly been rushed out for release to get a perceived edge over Sony (and to a lesser extent, Ninendo). I think that this means that the PS3 and the Revolution will end up being much more rounded, robust consoles - Sony and Nintendo know they're not going to be first to market, so they can afford to spend a little more time getting the consoles right. Plus hopefully there'll actually be a decent number of games available at launch... ;)

vertical placement of unit? (1, Insightful)

pl1ght (836951) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378080)

My guess this is happening to people who (like idiots) stand their unit vertically. PS2 had this as a "feature" to, but all it did was lead to scratched discs. I have had my horizontal from the beginning and i have no scratches on my dvds with heavy play. Just a thought.

Re:vertical placement of unit? (4, Insightful)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378116)

Insightful?

It doesn't matter what angle the unit is at so long as you're not moving between horizonal and veritcal while the disk is spinning. The potential for damage is when the disc is spinning fast enough for gyroscopic physics to try to torqe the disk at a right angle from the direction the console is moving, pushing the disk into things it really shouldn't come into contact with.

Otherwise, gravity pulling from one direction instead of another in and of itself wouldn't cause damage to the disk. If anything, having the console horizonal would be worse as gravity would be pulling the data surface (rather than the edge) down onto the disk tray.

Re:vertical placement of unit? (2, Informative)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378184)

The unit is mounted vertically in Microsoft's demo kiosks, if that makes it damage discs that'd be false advertising.

Re:vertical placement of unit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378185)

Like idiots huh? All the PR shots from Microsoft show the console standing vertically, so I really don't think calling people idiots for doing something Microsoft explicitely told them to do is called for.

it's getting harder and harder... (5, Interesting)

BillGod (639198) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378091)

In these days everyone is looking for any reason to bash the giant. Make jokes and poke fun. I have been a Microsoft user since DOS 3. I have been telling people for years that most of what they hear is just hype and to ignore it. I can't seem to find it in me anymore to stick up for them. None of my computers are running IE anymore due to a 6 hour virus removal fiasco. And there is no way in hell I will purchase an xbox 360 for my house any time soon. My son keeps begging me for one. How do you explain to an 11 year old that it sucks now.. but may get better by next year?

Re:it's getting harder and harder... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378147)

Um, he's eleven, so I really don't think you need to reason with the little brat. Can't parents today just say no and leave it at that?

Re:it's getting harder and harder... (1)

HellYeahAutomaton (815542) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378177)

"Son, there just aren't enough games out on the XBox 360 yet to make it worthwhile."

Re:it's getting harder and harder... (1)

js3 (319268) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378281)

I really don't get why people think they need to stick up for some software or product. I use IE, and firefox and opera, I'm not a fanboi of either and I feel the need to defend some company's software if someone does not like it. If you don't like the xbox don't buy it, I bet you probably don't even have one anyways. Don't worry I don't have one either, but the reason I don't is because it costs 500$.. and I don't have a TV..

Call be doubtful, but... (4, Interesting)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378101)

You're telling me that there are not only enough Xbox 360s out there, but there are enough of those 360 owners that are also GameFly subscribers and that enough of those people who have both a 360 and a GameFly subscription also have a disk-eating machine that they instituted this new policy specifically for 360 games?

That's what, six people?

If anything, this policy is a continuation of a standing policy for all consoles, and they probably deal with far more disk-eating PS2s than disk-eating 360s, simply because of the installed base.

And before I'm accused of being a Microsoft apologist, I am a foaming-at-the-mouth Nintendo fanboy who would only get an Xbox 360 for Final Fantasy XI.

Not a lot of options (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378133)

So, your xbox 360 scratched someone's disk. My guess is that it also scratched some of your own disks. You phone the Microsoft help line and complain that your console is scratching disks. They tell you to send the unit back. Ah, but when do you get the replacement? I just searched Walmart's web site for xbox 360. They don't have it listed. You can get everything but the console. They even have faceplates available but no consoles.

If you send your defective xbox back, you may not get a replacement for a long time. Are you even going to bother reporting the problem? Maybe that's why Microsoft can say they haven't had a lot of reports.

I wish I could scratch disks (1)

toupsie (88295) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378180)

If I only had the chance to scratch disks with an XBOX 360! I can't find one for sale anywhere. All I can find are the games and accessories. I would pretty pissed if I owned a company that made the games and accessories because no one can use them them due to the lack of XBOX 360s for sale. Which sounds like if Gamefly is issuing a bulletin on scratched disks, its a big problem for them given the small population of users they have with 360s.

I don't know if Microsoft is trying to hype the 360 or they are having a huge manufacturing issue given the limited supply. From I read, they are only distributing a couple thousand per week. On a mass market item, that is a poor supply. They should be selling millions of them.

Maybe I will just wait for a PS3 as my old XBOX is still working fine.

Re:I wish I could scratch disks (1)

Unknown_monkey (938642) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378256)

You see, the allotment of the second shipment of X360s is based on selling games and accessories, since that's where the money is made. But since so few X360s were sent to stores, game and accessory sales are low.

So when Microsoft reviewed the sales of X360s with games and accessories, they shipped the majority of the 2nd production run to an online store that only sells the units with a full complement of games and accessories.

This resulted in all the other vendors not having units to sell.

So 3rd shipment, even fewer B&M stores have sold X360s with accessories and games, ebay is owning the market, and all the 3rd shipment goes to a guy in Des Moines who has a left ver fortune from the Dot bomb day and begins his Wehavex360too.com website with a team of venture capitalists that are looking for anything Microsoft and internet related.


4th shipment goes international.

5th shipment goes to South Korea to be used in defending against N. Korea on Xbox Live.

Shipments 6-9 recalled due to bugs found in 1-5.

Shipment 10, scheduled for May 2006 will put a minimum of 300 units in every store that carries X360 in US, Wal-Mart to announce Low Price X360 Everyday program as X360 price is lowered to 199/299 due to low sales and competition from Playstation 3.

Sony announces shortage of Playstation 3 and begins to follow the same marketing program as X360 due to the amazing buzz created.

My apologies to Sony for outing their marketing plan. And explanation for the first three shipments is similar to how it was explained to me from a person in the computing retail industry.

easy fix... (5, Funny)

gfanboy (937770) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378188)

MS should just remove their slash code

My sources tell me... (5, Insightful)

gamorck (151734) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378196)

My sources tell me that the discs get scratched when people decide to change the orientation of their XBOX 360 while this disc is spinning. So lets say that they have a game in the XBOX 360, they hit pause and suddenly decide, "I don't like how this thing looks horizontal, let me sit it vertically and see how it looks". During that transition, the spinning disc will actually collide with the tray and cause extreme damage to the disc rendering it useless. Oh and there is also a loud grinding noise.

Anybody stupid enough to damage their game this way probably deserves to pay for the replacement fee as it is. This information has been relayed to me and confirmed by a regional manager at Gamestop and given the number of stores he manages, I'm quite willing to take his word for it.

Re:My sources tell me... (1)

Claire-plus-plus (786407) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378253)

2 months ago someone kicked over my PS2, knocking it from vertical to horizontal with force. It knocked it around enough that the console never worked quite right again. However, when I replaced the console the disk was still perfect. Now, my case might have been a freak occurance but tell me this: why can they make CD walkmen that can handle being used by joggers without scratching the disk but Micro$oft with all their funds can't make a console that can be moved from vertical to horizontal without scratching the disk?

Re:My sources tell me... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378270)

why can they make CD walkmen that can handle being used by joggers without scratching the disk but Micro$oft with all their funds can't make a console that can be moved from vertical to horizontal without scratching the disk?

because a discman spins considerably slower than a 8x DVD-ROM drive.

How about a nice RTFM.. (4, Insightful)

Keruo (771880) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378203)

The console manual quite clearly states that "do not move the console while it's operating a disc".
If someone managed to wreck their rented disc, all they can blaim is themselves, and pay the repair fee.
Some home insurances might even compensate the destroyed disc, if you claimed it as an accident.

disc condoms (2, Interesting)

Unknown_monkey (938642) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378211)

COMPUsa has a solution that I can't find the link to right now. It's a condom for the CD, a clear cover that goes over the data side of the disk to protect it. YMMV as I have not tried it yet. But I think that when I get a X360 I'll buy them just to improve my scratch resistance and to have something else to blame when my X360 crashes.


Construct your future, get a new job! Jobdot.org. Not affilliated with Slashdot. [jobdot.org]

Re:disc condoms (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378283)

Where... what are they called?

Content or media? (2, Informative)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378223)

So what are we buying/renting here? The content or the media?

Sounds like a double standard here.. where the consumer gets screwed no matter what.

Yay! (1)

dbucowboy (891058) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378263)

Now we all have something to scratch our games after we have hog-tied our little siblings... :)

offtopic (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378272)

offtopic, but does anyone know of a web app to generate a friendly phone number ('1-800-ezphone') based on some phone number ?

GTA San Andreas broke 3 of my PS2s (0, Offtopic)

gelfling (6534) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378291)

I wound up replacing 3 PS2s under warranty replacement because of drive damage caused by GTA/SA and only that game. Very odd.

Damn those hip-hop DJs (1)

iBod (534920) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378295)

Why can't they just stick to vinyl?
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