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What Really Happened with Mambo?

Hemos posted more than 8 years ago | from the to-every-season dept.

The Internet 107

Anonymous Coward writes "What Happened with Mambo? There is a good article about the recent events that resulted in a changing of the guard at Mambo. Jem Matzan does his best to objectively debunk what happened. It looks like much research was conducted to produce this article and it is very informative. Check it out!" In the interest of full disclosure as well, our corporate parent also hosts Joomlaforge.

cancel ×

107 comments

Pardon? (0, Offtopic)

developer7 (940280) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378571)

I can't understand a word of that!

article slashdotted -- here's a copy (4, Informative)

User 956 (568564) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378576)

Here's a link to the google cached version of the page. Google Cache [66.102.7.104] .

Re:article slashdotted -- here's a copy (3, Informative)

User 956 (568564) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378597)

Looks like the google cache is running slowly, since it's trying to pull images from the slashdotted server, which slows stuff down. here's a link [66.102.7.104] directly to the text of the article (no images).

Re:article slashdotted -- here's a copy (1)

Hynee (774168) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378754)

Google cache only retrieves the page source from its page cache. It doesn't wait for the original server to serve it images, it just lets your browser get them. It probably does some link canonicalizing (is that a word?) on the source too, but it all happens at google's data centres.

Re:article slashdotted -- here's a copy (5, Informative)

edgr (781723) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378782)

And here is that same google cache link without the annoying highlighting on every second word [66.102.7.104] .

Re:article slashdotted -- here's a copy (1)

booch (4157) | more than 8 years ago | (#14379015)

Looks like I'm a slow reader. Here's a link to Evelyn Wood's [evelynwood.com.au] .

Re:article slashdotted -- here's a copy (1)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 8 years ago | (#14381397)

Here's a quick summary

1) Geeks quarrel.
2) Project forks.
3) ????
4) Goto 1.

It got surpassed by Salsa in the next year? (4, Funny)

Pac (9516) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378578)

All these tropical music styles seem to follow a cycle of sudden, quick popularity, quick fall back into oblivion as a new, hotter style is "discovered" and then a revival every other decade. Mambo wouldn't be different.

Re:It got surpassed by Salsa in the next year? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378702)

Haha, good one.

Obscure Simpsons Reference: (4, Funny)

Ruff_ilb (769396) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378704)

At the Samba School:
The Penetrada: It makes sex look like church.

Re:Obscure Simpsons Reference: (1)

pimpsoftcom (877143) | more than 8 years ago | (#14381500)

For some people sex *is* a form of worship, and thus *is* church.

Re:It got surpassed by Salsa in the next year? (0)

neomunk (913773) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378712)

It's that spicy latin beat!

Re:It got surpassed by Salsa in the next year? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378719)


So True. "But why wound his body with bullets when I [snpp.com]
                could set his soul afire with a slanderous mambo? "

Re:It got surpassed by Salsa in the next year? (3, Funny)

kfg (145172) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378755)

I've been holding out on Samba. I figure Bossa Nova's right around the corner.

KFG

Excuse me? (-1, Redundant)

Nugget (7382) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378580)

I've never even heard of Mambo or Joomlaforge.

Re:Excuse me? (-1, Offtopic)

bertboerland (31938) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378634)

no excuse. am i missing a "funny" here? or is a "i have never heard of" posting at best redundant and not 5 points worth at all. btw: i dont mind if you have never heard of "mambo", but dont tell me you have been missing out the best cms [drupal.org] !

Re:Excuse me? (-1, Offtopic)

Transmogrify_UK (902981) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378672)

What makes it "the best cms" exactly? I'm not baiting, but would like to know as I'm currently using Joomla for a site and if there's something better, then I'd like to know about it!

Re:Excuse me? (0)

mizhi (186984) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378678)

Second this. Would it be so hard to put something like "What Happened with Mambo, the opensource CMS project?"

Yes, I'm aware that google is available. But I'd rather not have to go do a search for a simple definition.

But then again, this is slashdot and, like dupes and Yakov Smirnoff ripoffs, this simple request will be ignored by the masses.

Re:Excuse me? (1)

Godwin O'Hitler (205945) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378993)

Same reaction here, except WTF is CMS?

Re:Excuse me? (1)

Fred_A (10934) | more than 8 years ago | (#14379210)

CMS stands for Content Management System. It's a framework that manages the guts of a web site for you, you provide the content, it does the rest.

Go to http://www.cmsmatrix.org/ [cmsmatrix.org] for example to see a few of them. There are hundreds. Mambo is one. There are others. Some are easier to work with than others. See for yourself.

Re:Excuse me? (1)

mobets (101759) | more than 8 years ago | (#14381475)

You mean like SlashCode [slashcode.com] ?

Re:Excuse me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14382480)

Welcome to the WWW. We have the ability to link any word in a body of text to a fucking definition, and /. article submitors are too damned lazy. It's extremely annoying that I had to read this far down in the comments to find out that Mambo is a CMS when a damned <span title="Mambo, the open source CMS" >Mambo</span> or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mambo_(CMS)" >Mambo [wikipedia.org] </a> would've given me (and everyone else) the information.

Re:Excuse me? (-1, Redundant)

Claire-plus-plus (786407) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378683)

I'm with you on that one. I have no idea what this article is about.

Re:Excuse me? (1)

Ucklak (755284) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378717)

There are a bazillion Open Source CMS out there. I remember when Post Nuke and PHP-Nuke were it. Now it looks like a befuddled mess where posting on MySpace looks attractive.

Re:Excuse me? (0, Flamebait)

metamatic (202216) | more than 8 years ago | (#14379261)

If you eliminate the CMSs running on crufty hole-ridden PHP, there aren't very many.

What are you talking about? (1)

StarKruzr (74642) | more than 8 years ago | (#14381669)

Why was it better when there were fewer, less flexible choices available?

Re:What are you talking about? (1)

Ucklak (755284) | more than 8 years ago | (#14381975)

I never said better, I just remember when it was just those 2 getting all the news.
IMO, You'll get tired trying all of them and by the time you tweak it to do what you want it to do, you've learned how to program your own better and lighter.

joombla (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378581)

zombo is CRAP basically

AND U SUCK because mambo was and always will be in the form of the new joombla thing the best FOSS web designing tool ever!

Re:joombla (-1, Offtopic)

developer7 (940280) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378604)

yeAH l0l j00 r0x0rzz!1

and leik mamb0 r0x 4nd zombo iZ am4tuR l0h1!!!11113n123$@$$@$%1211onetyeleventyone!!111

Mambo Threw A Party... (1, Offtopic)

Real World Stuff (561780) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378582)

and no one came...

joomla rulez (-1, Redundant)

GavrocheLeGnou (929922) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378592)

And know you can check joomla :
http://www.joomla.org/ [joomla.org]


Gavroche Le Gnou
Flash Xml Socket Server [gavroche.net]

Non-karma whoring link to Joomla (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378808)

correction (5, Insightful)

molnarcs (675885) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378618)

If you're using Mambo currently, do you need to switch to Joomla? The answer is no, as far as my research for this article shows.

Hmmm... You don't have to do much research to see that the future lies with Joomla. Basically the entire development team - the same team that made mambo great - left and they are working on Joomla now. How safe is to stay with a product that has "we are looking for developers" on their website for months? Especially since joomla! offers a clear migration path... Basically the first release is latest mambo with trademarks stripped out, so the sooner one switches the better...

If we compare the "roadmap" of the two projects, joomla has a clearer vision of the future, so yeah, I don't think mambo is a safe bet from what I've seen.

Re:correction (5, Informative)

n00tz (926304) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378685)

and if that isn't good enough you can go try it and others out over at Open Source CMS [opensourcecms.com] . This was my method for determining what CMS I'd be using for various projects. It is a _GREAT_ resource.

Re:correction (2, Informative)

optilude (233718) | more than 8 years ago | (#14381357)

This resource looks good on the surface, but if you look at their requirements, they *only* feature PHP4/MySQL systems. For example, Plone (http://plone.org/ [plone.org] is one of the most mature and successful open source content management systems (and yes, I do work with it), and is not mentioned on the site. Who knows what other good systems are not featured there? In my mind, it makes this a pretty useless web site for all but the narrowest of searches.

Re:correction (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378730)

Or if you have a brain, you realise that neither platform will survive the shambles, and dump them both. That's what I did.

Re:correction (3, Informative)

trompete (651953) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378735)

Even more important: most of the 3rd-party developers went to Joomla, so Joomla will continue to pull ahead in the next year.

Re:correction (2, Interesting)

molnarcs (675885) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378781)

Yeah, I knew I forgot something important :))

Oh, btw, wasn't the Jem Report sponsored by Mambo?

Re:correction (1)

DogDude (805747) | more than 8 years ago | (#14379039)

You don't have to do much research to see that the future lies with Joomla.

And you don't have to have much of a brain to realize that nobody is going to buy a piece of software called "Joomla!", no matter who's doing the programming.

Re:correction (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14379129)

umm...joomla is free

Re:correction (2, Funny)

TykeClone (668449) | more than 8 years ago | (#14379303)

So he's right that no one will buy it!

Re:correction (1)

fuzzy12345 (745891) | more than 8 years ago | (#14379311)

> If you're using Mambo currently, do you need to switch to Joomla? The answer is no, as far as my research for this article shows.

Hmmm... You don't have to do much research to see that the future lies with Joomla.

Heck, lookit all the people still using Apache 1.3. I don't think it's a great thing that sloth/"if it ain't broke" means legacy code is legacy forever and anything more than incremental change has a tough time getting adopted, but it's human nature.

Obviously they're not good at documentation (2, Funny)

billstewart (78916) | more than 8 years ago | (#14380384)

Look, if they can't get a Slashdot article to say what Mambo *is*, and the people who reply say you really ought to be using Joomla instead, without any explanation about that either, and the website's Slashdotted because nobody else can figure out what it is and the website has too much graphical content to survive that many downloads, they're obviously not good at documentation or naming. Is Mambo a development environment, or a game, or a compiler, or another guy you're supposed to vote for instead of Kodos?

Newsflash (1)

repruhsent (672799) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378621)

I don't think anyone gives a shit about this article, thus not really hitting the "stuff that matters" part of the site's slogan.

Wow (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378637)

I just tried to come up with a good way to pitch either of these projects to a corporate decision making panel. I couldn't get past the names. I realize names shouldn't have an effect on a product, but appearance shouldn't have an effect on our first impressions of people either. Pitch that to your local HR weenie and see how it bounces.

The people coming up with these names really have to step back and see how they sound in a boardroom.

Good luck though!

Re:Wow (2, Informative)

LDoggg_ (659725) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378713)

Just do a quick implmentation. Seriously its easy.

Pull down XAMPP [apachefriends.org] and then uznip joomla into the htdocs directory. You could have the full technology stack and website contained in a directory. Fire it up and slap your corporate logo on the default theme.
It looks professional out of the box, just show it to the powers that be. The goofy name of the software should be irrelevant.

Also if you want to give a more in depth demo showing how to create content, install MOSCE [za.net] and make it the default editor, its much easier to use than what mambo/joomla comes with.

It's great (1)

CottonThePirate (769463) | more than 8 years ago | (#14379583)

I used mambo and then joomla to host a site that I hope some day will compare with the evil Ken Rockwell in the photography world: Everything Photographic [schaab.com] While still very beta the site looks good and is easy to maintain. This in my mind is far better than all the sites I've coded by hand in the past. I'm at the point where I feel like the content should take my time, not the coding. Joomla rocks.

Re:Wow (1)

capsteve (4595) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378804)

the best way to pitch it is to telll your corporate decision making panel that it can be branded and named what ever they like... it seems like an uphill battle, but i bet you half the panel have names that people make fun of(privately, of course). if you or your panel can't get past the names, you need to look elsewhere.

Re:Wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14379054)

Names are important. In the 80's a system for manufacturing management named MAMA (the CEO was female) went nowhere until it was renamed MANMAN.

Not just these! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14379855)

I've mentionned Ruby On Rails once in a meeting... Never again! People are still making jokes about it...

Re:Wow (1)

IgnoramusMaximus (692000) | more than 8 years ago | (#14380310)

I couldn't get past the names.

Tell them its a "codename", like, say, "Longhorn" (for Vista - also rather stupid, don't you think?) or "Whidbey" (for Visual Studio .NET 2005) or "Orcas" (Successor to VS.NET 2005) etc and so on. I for one fail to see a difference in silliness between Joomla and Longhorn or Vista for that matter.

The people coming up with these names really have to step back and see how they sound in a boardroom.

Apparently the difference is not in the name but who is doing the naming. From what I listed, Microsoft could name their next relase of Visual Studio "Bozo the Clown" and still have your managment's respect.

Re:Wow (1)

jbrader (697703) | more than 8 years ago | (#14380676)

Vista means view, longhorn is a kind of cattle, whidbey and orcas are both islands in Washington, orca is also a kind of whale. So these codenames are all real words that an adult can say in public without looking/feeling lke a complete tool. As far as I've been able to find though, joomla is made up. And sounds completely ridiculous.

Re:Wow (1)

IgnoramusMaximus (692000) | more than 8 years ago | (#14380780)

As far as I've been able to find though, joomla is made up.

"Joomla" is a phonetic spelling for the Swahili word "Jumla", which means "all together" or "as a whole".

And sounds completely ridiculous.

That is in the eye (ear?) of the beholder. To me all of the above "codenames" sound equally ridiculous and irrelevant to the projects they are attached to.

Google, Yahoo (1)

jeffskyrunner (701044) | more than 8 years ago | (#14380402)

How do you think these sounded when they were first pitched in a boardroom? "what the hell is a google?" "Wohoo for yahoo?"

why should we care? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378654)

about the Mexican-American Bowling Organization? Http://www.mambo.org and no, don't click or you will kill a poor, innocent, server.

Anonymous? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378661)

Hmm. Why is Shawn Carey, who posts news items to the official Mambo website [mamboserver.com] labelled as Anonymous Coward when submitting this story? Hover over the link, that's his email address. A bit suspicious that an interested party is submitting stories as Anonymous Coward, don't you think?

Re:Anonymous? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378809)

Yeah, because it couldn't possibly be someone else. Don't you think it's even more suspicious that someone write their name as Anonymous Coward and then enter an easily identifiable email address - especially as you don't need to fill in any email to submit news to Slashdot?

Nah, what am I thinking. You've obviosuly uncovered a great conspiracy. =)

Re:Anonymous? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14379536)

What I find amusing is that if he had submitted this article with his name, he would be called a Karma whore or Slashdot would be accused of advertising for him or somesuch. This would seem to be a legitimate news item, and apparently other people haven't picked up on it.

No. (1)

Trillan (597339) | more than 8 years ago | (#14379710)

Why would there be something wrong with it? Who else would you have submit a story than people who know something about it? Who would think a story interesting to others who wasn't interested in it themselves?

I remember... (-1, Offtopic)

PetoskeyGuy (648788) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378715)

It was replaced by Dirty Dancing because kids now a days don't want to learn the Mamob or the Fox Trot...

nigg4 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378724)

= 1440 NetBSD the wind appeared the point mOre it was fun. If I'm

All I really need to know (1)

a_nonamiss (743253) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378759)

OK, I tried to read that article, but it's not happening. All I need to know: I have a site running Mambo 4.5.2. I try to keep the most recent version installed. (Yes, I am one release behind.) Do I need to be at all concerned over any of these developments?

Re:All I really need to know (1)

bgat (123664) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378791)

I read the article (from the google cache, since the the site hosting the article is powered by Mambo/Joomla? :) )

Anyway... after reading the article it sounds like you have no reason for concern, and you'll want to stay with Mambo.

Re:All I really need to know (1)

trompete (651953) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378891)

Did you apply security patches to 4.5.2? A lot of Joomla 1.0.x and Mambo 4.5.2 sites got defaced. Just be mindful that there are always security patches being posted on the forums for both products.

Re:All I really need to know (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14379133)

I'm asking the same question in a couple of places due to compatability with third-party plugins. It seems to me this fork just produced a load of potential extra work for everyone concerned, with little apparent gain for anyone.

I'm hoping we don't have to make a decision and that both parties will recognise the good in each other...but I'm realistic and I think it's unlikely that will happen.

There's a palpble bitterness hidden behind the corporatspeak - hopefully they will be able to work together in future. It's a new cycle, it's been a pretty shit one as far as I'm concerned - it'd be nice to see them make amends with a view to meeting a mutual vision.

Re:All I really need to know (2, Informative)

nodnarb1978 (725530) | more than 8 years ago | (#14379837)

There's a worm currently in propagation that affects unpatched Mambo 4.5.3.x installs. Unknown if the precise worm affects Joomla, however I do note a concurrent "security release" of Joomla as well. The worm compromises via SQL injection, and opens the error_log on all virtual hosts on a given server, in an attempt to obfuscate the true source of the error. Meanwhile, the worm launches a perl process and begins portscanning and attacking other hosts -- it also googles to find new sources for infection. Compromised servers check in at a predetermined IRC room/server.

Official Release on Mamboserver.com [mamboserver.com] .

I would strongly advise getting your site patched circa now.

Re:All I really need to know (1)

Fyre2012 (762907) | more than 8 years ago | (#14380577)

the core developers left Mambo and are building Joomla.
Your best bet is to backup your Mambo DB and switch while they're still compatible

Right now is a good time to switch, in the future the differences will be too great to make it a simple task.

Also, that worm affected the mambo 4.5.x branch was patched in Joomla 1.05 but not in Mambo (afaik)

Re:All I really need to know (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14381470)

Joomla has released 5 versions to Mambo's 1. Most of Joomla's releases have been bug fixes and security patches which makes the software more stable and secure.

Next version of Mambo (0)

sh0dan (762382) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378760)

Thank God! I had almost given up waiting for Mambo No. 5 [wikipedia.org] .

Totally bogus (4, Insightful)

augustz (18082) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378777)

Basically, the actual developers who developed Mambo all left.

And for some pretty good reasons. The bylaws of the non-profit foundation were the craziest I've seen (and I used to review bylaws). Clearly designed to lock in control at the top for Miro.

I've been around a long time, and some of the mambo and mambo foundation stunts are huge red-flags for a nonprofit.

I bet when we dig below the surface of the article, we'll find that the submitter (who is shawn@uberdev.com) has a vested interest in this?

Also, tend to beleive the code talks and talk walks. Curious to know how many core developers stayed with Mambo.

And to be honest I like the feel of the Joomla community a bit better, from ducking into both sets of forums. Don't run either package however.

Re:Totally bogus (1)

Dominic Burns (673810) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378813)

"I bet when we dig below the surface of the article, we'll find that the submitter (who is shawn@uberdev.com) has a vested interest in this?"

TFA site runs Mambo.

Re:Totally bogus (1)

micheas (231635) | more than 8 years ago | (#14379005)

Curious to know how many core developers stayed with Mambo.


I know it's redundant, but the answer is none.

Re:Totally bogus (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14379031)

So what? If they created the product originally, they have every right to want to do things their way and to make sure they do not lose control of their project.

Re:Totally bogus (2, Funny)

awch (134042) | more than 8 years ago | (#14379126)

And they haven't lost control... They now have "control" of a dead project. Be careful what you wish for!

Re:Totally bogus (2, Informative)

Some Bitch (645438) | more than 8 years ago | (#14381220)

So what? If they created the product originally, they have every right to want to do things their way and to make sure they do not lose control of their project.

They abandoned the project years ago, it wasn't until Robert Castley took it up after they dropped it that it amounted to much. Under his leadership it turned into from a basic CMS into a great piece of Free software with a large community which is when Miro got interested again.

Re:Totally bogus (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14379350)

I bet when we dig below the surface of the article, we'll find that the submitter (who is shawn@uberdev.com) has a vested interest in this?

Way ahead of you [slashdot.org] .

Re:Totally bogus (1)

phranque_z (454568) | more than 8 years ago | (#14379915)

None of the core developers stayed with Mambo.

Telling in and of itself :)

Hmm... (3, Funny)

HellYeahAutomaton (815542) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378793)

So does this mean mama doesn't love Mambo?

What does this mean for open source projects? (3, Insightful)

pieterh (196118) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378819)

The analysis is interesting, and raises some good points about keeping open source projects stable. While forking projects is certainly good for competition, it is probably less efficient than simply focussing on a single well-run project. So, to avoid this kind of circus, my advice to open source teams working with corporate sponsors would be:

1. The copyright does not matter as much as you think, so long as the software is released under a foss license. This is, really, the whole point of the license.

2. Any revenue from services will go to the people who know the software, so ultimately it's better to be working on the code than to be paying for the project, if revenue is your long-term goal.

3. The economics of a sponsored open source project should be discussed early and be clear. No-one can work uneconomically. Settle the money aspects well beforehand, and avoid disputes. IMO, ideally, the corporate sponsor should get an immediate benefit from the technology, while the development team should get the "product" as their baby.

4. In today's world, owning copyright is actually becoming a bad thing - it can lead to software patent lawsuits. There are good arguments for FOSS sponsors to pass the copyrights to non-profit foundations, which can be sued but with little benefit and much bad publicity.

5. If you're going to argue, don't do it publically. It's too easy to overreact, say things that one regrets afterwards.

That's it. It's nice to see corporate sponsorship of FOSS work, since it can be such a natural and mutually beneficial way of working. But watch out for the money! It turns even the best friendships into bitter disputes unless the rules are well-agreed beforehand.

I give up (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378837)

What is mambo?

Nothing about what it is or does is mentioned anywhere. Must not be that intresting if nobody knows what it is.

server slashdotted (2, Funny)

chivo (20329) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378850)

As an admin at his hosting company, I can't really see why it's /.'d. Maybe I should have a tech have a peak at the server...

Re:server slashdotted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14379146)

Could you? The Tech Support line is going unanswered right now.

Ego (5, Insightful)

saterdaies (842986) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378851)

The whole situation can be sumarized as:

Miro started Mambo. They did the original work, they got the ball rolling and so they believed that they were entitled to be in charge.

Some of the Mambo community developers did a lot of work on Mambo and, arguably, Mambo wouldn't be here today without them. While they didn't start it, they saw their contributions are paramount and they thought they were entitled to be in charge.

Mostly, it's a battle of ego. Anyone who reads the Joomla! website can see that it's a battle of ego. They tried to claim that it was a renaming, that they were the real Mambo, that they were better than Mambo, etc. Frankly, which one is the "real" Mambo is a philosophical question that I think is stupid, but it's easy to see that this is an ego fight between two camps who both have legitimate claims to leadership of the project.

One Addition (1)

augustz (18082) | more than 8 years ago | (#14378926)

The board has some good provisions that could insure board control. In particular:
Subject to these Rules, if the Board is of the opinion that a member has refused or neglected
to comply with these Rules, or has been guilty of conduct unbecoming a member or prejudicial
to the interests of the Association
, the Board may by resolution:

a) fine that member an amount not exceeding $500; or
b) suspend that member from membership of the Association for a specified period; or
c) expel that member from the Association.

Since the board defines what is "prejudicial/unbecoming", they can basically remove folks who they don't like, perhaps even dinging them in the process with a $500 fine.

Imagine if you were a corporate shareholder, and agreed to rules like these. It would be very hard to kick out existing board members.

In some cases, you do want board members to maintain control, and might simply avoid voting of membership or make votes advisory. However, Miro and the Foundation are making a big deal about the fact that the members control the foundation, so its worth looking at the actual rules.

For the non-cogniscenti (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14378973)

Joomla is a safer bet (0)

Lazarus_Bitmap (593726) | more than 8 years ago | (#14379006)

I've been around the Mambo project for several years, and nearly all the people I've known and respected in the community have switched over to Joomla... Which made me switch my sites over to it, as well as my own minor contributions on the forums. The only potential advantage to keeping on Mambo is seeing whether having some fresh eyes with the new dev team might result in interesting new features. But that's a big risk, in my opinion.

Bottom line, I think, will be which team implements workflow and access control features that finally bring Mambo in line with mature commercial projects. When that happens, I bet you'll see the momentum shift to the team that pulls it off.

In the heat of the moment (3, Informative)

realkiwi (23584) | more than 8 years ago | (#14379052)

"The Jem Report
This site is temporarily unavailable.
Please notify the System Administrator " Ahem

The 30th Nov an exploit against Mambo was announced discretely on the Mambo page. The 3rd of December my sole Mambo site was toast. I found out about the Mambo vs Joomla thing when looking for security updates.

As a result of what I read I dropped Mambo and Joomla and started looking for a Java Portal...

Article is well crafted marketing for Mambo (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14379224)

The whole thing was a mess. I was one of the few begging the core to rethink the fork and took some abuse.

However, any real review of forum activity and project active will show Joomla walked away with most of the community. When I read this article the points I see crafted into the narrative were:

1. The whole thing was just a big misunderstanding (I think mostly true)
2. Lamont meant no harm but was overly protective and the core were too emotional (minor slant)
3. Mambo is better than before and there is secret log info to discount the public activity you see on the forums and forge. (This is the core marketing message in this article, because it is the core question on the minds of the masses)
4. Joomla may just be a fad. (Pay no attention to the activity at Joomla, better to stick with an established player. More marketing message)

Nicely crafted marketing for Mambo.
1. sound fair create a feeling of trust
2. spin hard that Mambo is even better without all those emotional folks who were forced to develop for Joomla with threats no one will talk about
3. Suggest that Joomla has an unsure future. (just seed some doubt)

What I know from way too many hours on both sites at the split.

There were egos on both sides.
*No one was really interested in compromise

*There were money concerns on both sides (Gee shouldn't all good software come from the independently wealthy or homeless destitute, because making money from software is evil?)

*Joomla right now has a more active community. But Mambo is far from dead

*Choosing one over the other is no more a problem than choosing any other software. Both forks will at some point break some things making some upgrades a royal pain!!

As someone who works in marketing and message crafting for software, this story was about creating an impression for Mambo and against Joomla. It is done in a very skillful way to create trust, then use that to spin impressions. The best marketing reads as "truth."

Re:Article is well crafted marketing for Mambo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14381615)

You believe your own writting? LOL Shall i call you Peter Lamont or his bussy friend Jem? Telling the truth, this article is IMHO only part of an PR shmeer campain from Miro, which continuies the last month, not more.

mo3 0p (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14379544)

by simple Fucking the mundane chores conversation and Moans and groans hapless *BSD Exploited that. A And Juliet 40,000 shower Don't just example, if you THE FUTURE OF THE offended some hobbyist dilettante you. The tireless In addition, take a look at the perspective, the bad for *BSD. As [slashdot.org], to this. For For all practical Things the right obligated to care The public eye: NOTORIOUS OPENBSD ultimately, we Feel an obligation dying. Everyone slings are limited, Nigger Association Worse and worse. As non-fucking-existant. I see the same Their parting overly morbid and [nero-online.org]

fuck a trollkoRe (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14380225)

Need to join 7he [goat.cx]

I see one big "improvement"... (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 8 years ago | (#14380319)

Joomla seems to advocate porn. Look at their demo page [joomla.org] -- it has a direct, working link to xxx.com. While they may have intended this to be an "example.com" type of link, probably not the best choice -- or maybe it is, depending on your point of view!

Re:I see one big "improvement"... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14380473)

Do you know how a demo site works?

Visistors can change the whole thing and it will be reset once in a while.

I gues thats what happened over there.

Joomla is just a real good piece of software and their upcomming 1.1 release will be something else. http://www.joomla.org/content/view/663/74/ [joomla.org]

Wim

i'd be more interested in knowing... (1)

XO (250276) | more than 8 years ago | (#14381092)

not what happened.. but.. who cares?

I prefer Zombo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14381289)

My imagination is the only limit.

http://www.zombo.com/ [zombo.com]

MamBull (1)

oldstrat (87076) | more than 8 years ago | (#14381742)

The article is NOT pretty good, and I have to wonder who the anonymous coward was that submitted it.

Mambo management sought to highjack the entire project and the work of the developers and retake it private.

They were called on it and are now in a situation where they continue to behave badly. (As this article shows)

2 thoughts for you Joomlers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14382638)

5 versions since the fork?? FIVE since mid-august? What the heck were they doing before they left? Nothing (except planning a fork!)

By the way, where's the money going over at Joomla.org? That's not a non-profit, you know...
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