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Swedish Filesharers Start 'The Piracy Party'

CmdrTaco posted more than 8 years ago | from the still-want-my-infinite-bandwidth-party dept.

The Internet 723

sp3tt writes "Tired of being called criminals, a group of Swedish filesharers have started a new political party, The Piracy Party (Piratpartiet in Swedish). The party wants to abolish all intellectual property laws, reverse the data retention directive passed by the EU last month, and protect privacy with new laws. The party expresses no opinion on other subjects. The Piracy Party's webpage is so far only available in Swedish, at piratpartiet.se The party's goal is to get into to the parliament, which requires 4% of the votes, or roughly 225000 votes. Elections are held in September."

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Two questions: (4, Funny)

Art Popp (29075) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385190)

How much does it cost to rent a one room studio "summer home?"

And, what are the minimum residency requirements for voting in Sweden?

Re:Two questions: (4, Funny)

Rei (128717) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385218)

Most countries require citizenship. I'd imagine that citizenship would at least have some basic language requirements. Of course, judging from the site, that could be fun:

Ge oss dina favoritargument!

You have to love languages where you can combinemultiplewords to expressasingleconcept. I doubt they have German beat, though.

Re:Two questions: (5, Informative)

Carthag (643047) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385304)

Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, and German have the same rules as far as compund words [wikipedia.org] go. Either language can make as long words as the situation requires, but it seldom does require longer words than such as "masseødelæggelsesvåben" (Danish for 'weapons of mass destruction', it's similar in Swedish & Norwegian).

Your two english examples are wrong though, we'd never combine words that way. It would be more like "You have to love languages where you can multiwordcombine in order to singleconceptexpress." Note that those two are the verbal forms of the (literally translated) words multiwordcombination (flerordskombination) and singleconceptexpression (enkeltkonceptsudtryk), none of which are used at all, but are readily understandable. See also Agglutinative languages [wikipedia.org] for some more information on the topic of forming new words by combining others (which does happen in English as well).

Re:Two questions: (1)

Rei (128717) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385371)

Reminds me a bit of the (slightly harsh) uncyclopedia article on German Grammar [uncyclopedia.org] .

Re:Two questions: (3, Informative)

Enigma_Man (756516) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385375)

The longest Swedish word is: NORDÖSTERSJÖKUSTARTILLERIFLYGSPANINGSSIMULATORANLÄ GGNINGSMATERIELUNDERHÅLLSUPPFÖLJNINGSSYSTEMDISKUSS IONSINLÄGGSFÖRBEREDELSEARBETEN, meaning "preparatory work on the contribution to the discussion on the maintaining system of support of the material of the aviation survey simulator device within the north-east part of the coast artillery of the Baltic"

Re:Two questions: (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385460)

The English language influences if f**ing up modern Swedish language.
Most kids don't know how to write proper compound words anymore.
A sentence like "En svarthårig sjuksköterska" - "A black-haired nurse" is nowadays often written like
"En svart hårig sjuk sköterska" , wich actually means -"A black, hairy, sick, nurse"

Re:Two questions: (1)

Eideewt (603267) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385229)

Heh. My exact first thought. "If I move now, how long before I can become a citizen?"

Re:Two questions: (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385233)

you have to be a resident for 7 (or a citizen) years to vote for the national parliment. shorter for local bodies.

Re:Two questions: (5, Funny)

xtracto (837672) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385330)

Or better yet, Any swedish girl wants to marry me? =-)

Do Swede young males vote even? (5, Interesting)

dada21 (163177) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385197)

I wish I was Swedish! In the US a few years ago, I tried to convince some local Libertarians to run strictly on the "right to copy" platform. It seems most of those guys wanted to run on the "Smoke Pot" platform, which will generally get you nowhere except with stoners.

The big news here, to me, is that Sweden seems to allow minority opinions into their parliament (similar to Costa Rica and other countries). In the US it is near impossible to get a minority opinion into even a state legislature -- democracy and gerrymandering prevent the minority opinion from ever seeing the light of day.

225,000 votes is a LOT of votes. Does anyone know what the 18-30 male voting record is in terms of actually making it to the ballot box to vote? In recent local elections that I've witnessed (I like to watch), I haven't seen anything but blue haired ladies with walkers hitting the booths. I don't think I saw one person under the age of 40 at my booth (and I witnessed the voters for over 3 hours). I'm not sure how well this would work even if our voting system did allow for minority parties with minority positions to get elected.

Does bork bork bork mean "freedom to copy" now?

Re:Do Swede young males vote even? (1)

tewmten (608383) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385297)

So you like to watch, say no more, say no more! *wink wink* *nudge nudge*

Re:Do Swede young males vote even? (5, Informative)

fuvm (177940) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385313)

http://www.scb.se/templates/Publikation____47578.a sp [www.scb.se]

Crash course in Swedish:

Ålder = Age
Röstande i % av röstberättigade = Voters as % of allowed voters
Män = Men
Kvinnor = Women
Alla = All
år = years
Förstagångsväljare = First-time voters
Samtliga = All

Re:Do Swede young males vote even? (2, Funny)

Profane MuthaFucka (574406) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385402)

Bork bork bork!

Re:Do Swede young males vote even? (2, Interesting)

hackstraw (262471) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385377)

Being that it is difficult to obtain statistics on adults of voting age that use marijuana in the United States, the closest thing I can find is http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html [nih.gov] ,

Which says, "In 2002, over 14 million Americans age 12 and older used marijuana at least once in the month prior to being surveyed, and 12.2 percent of past year marijuana users used marijuana on 300 or more days in the past 12 months."

The US population at the time (including minors was 288 million) so:

14/288 = 0.0486111111111111

If the US had a parliamentary system and 4% was required for a party, I would guess there would be a marijuana party.

Keep in mind that the 14 million number is probably a gross underestimate.

Re:Do Swede young males vote even? (4, Interesting)

Red Flayer (890720) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385384)

"The big news here, to me, is that Sweden seems to allow minority opinions into their parliament (similar to Costa Rica and other countries). In the US it is near impossible to get a minority opinion into even a state legislature -- democracy and gerrymandering prevent the minority opinion from ever seeing the light of day."

Well, that's the difference between a parliamentary system and the system here in the US.

Re: democracy: It's not democracy that's the problem -- it's the form of democracy in the US. Rules that favor a two-party system, etc. There's a reason that democracy has been called the tyranny of the majority.

Re: gerrymandering -- this doesn't kill third parties so much as it is used to prevent 2nd-party opposition from gaining ground. What really kills 3rd-parties is campaign finance -- few corporations will give tons of $$ to a party unlikely to have any pull when it comes time to pay the piper. Without having any pull, it's hard to get that critical mass of funding where a party can really get going.

Re:Do Swede young males vote even? (3, Informative)

lordmetroid (708723) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385409)

Swedish people love to excercice the power they have thru voting. It's around 95% of the voting population that do so. However, younger people seem to not care as much anymore and I heard numbers like 75% voting qouta. These numbers are from my memory though, so I reserve myself for any errors I have made but it's around those figures.

Re:Do Swede young males vote even? (4, Insightful)

kfg (145172) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385427)

The big news here, to me, is that Sweden seems to allow minority opinions into their parliament. . .

Yes, that is why they choose to call it a Parley-ment.

America's founding fathers were well aware of such a system. It was the one they were living under until independence was declared (with the caveat that they themselves were not allowed at the parley table); and so they were aware of its shortcomings and sought to obviate them. They were also well aware that they were trading one set of shortcomings for another. It's wise to remember that when the grass looks greener on the other side.

"Well, we solved that problem. Hey! Where'd that problem come from?"

All that said it's true that I have never had a representative in government, in the truest sense of the word, not one, in my entire life. Nor do I ever expect to have one. Under a parliamentary system I might well have someone who at least represents me in some focused issue or other.

KFG

No copyright == no GPL too! (4, Insightful)

nietsch (112711) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385450)

Although they do a good job of getting media attention, but their message is so extreme, a lot of people will write them off as crackpots and judging righteous IP reformer the same.
The downside of their proposal is that it is extremely profitable for big business, more so then for occasional filesharers. If there is no copyright, businesses will be able to rip of any Linux distro and sell it as their own (or any other piece of copyrighted work). This will rearrange the playingfield, but the ones with lots of money to invest have a big advantage here.
Copyright is a double edged sword: it protects the big evil business taking advantage of musicians and authors, but also protects independent musicians and authors from the big evil companies (if they are smart enough not to sign all their rights over for a cheap meal and a record deal).

Re:Do Swede young males vote even? (1)

Havenwar (867124) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385456)

18-30.. no... but sweden has a pretty high attendancy at the elections. A quick search showed official statistics that in the year 2002 68% of the male and 73% of the female "first time voters" actually went to vote. All in all the number is about 81%. This is DOWN from earlier years. So, to skip the calculations for you, usually more than 5,3M swedes vote.

Now, the first timers... are around 250-260K for the upcoming election. So, around 170-180K will vote... And a lot of them for more traditional options. In short, this initiativ will cause more commotion than real success, but it's appearance in the press and every vote cast for it is still a clear signal that we do not accept the current situation.

And yes, I am aware I totally ignore the people who have been able to vote for a while. Why is simple - they are either to lazy to go vote, or already stuck with an ideology... those not captured by this will most likely not amount to enough votes, but as I said, will still make a difference.

And all numbers fetched from swedish statistic sites... bother google for exact sources.

Non sequitur (4, Funny)

Billosaur (927319) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385211)

From The Inquirer: Its massage is that corporations are engaging in racketeering in the developing world and a few power hungry individuals and greedy corporate entities are infringing on privacy and integrity.

Got to hand it to the Swedes, combining political advocacy with pirates and massages.

Re:Non sequitur (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385268)

Loser..

Re:Non sequitur (1)

Lord Bitman (95493) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385394)

may want to add some word boundary checks to that regex.

Re:Non sequitur (1)

UnixRevolution (597440) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385464)

From The Inquirer: Its massage is that corporations are engaging in racketeering in the developing world and a few power hungry individuals and greedy corporate entities are infringing on privacy and integrity.

Got to hand it to the Swedes, combining political advocacy with pirates and massages.


Well, you know, nothing beats a swedish massage.

A *real* piracy party... (4, Funny)

charlesbakerharris (623282) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385219)

...would be a piracy pARRRRRRRRRRRty.

Re:A *real* piracy party... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385228)

Pirrrrrrrrrrrracy parrrrrrrrrrottty!

Parrot! Parrot! Parrot!

Immaterial? (5, Insightful)

Bogtha (906264) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385220)

If their aim is to abolish immaterial law, then how do they reconcile that with protecting privacy? After all, that would be immaterial law, would it not?

I think this party would have much better support if they tried to reduce copyright terms to something more sensible like ~15 years, to see what affect competition with a more contemporary public domain would have on the market, before jumping headlong into abolishing copyright altogether.

Re:Immaterial? (1)

sp3tt (856121) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385265)

Intellectual property laws != Immaterial laws.

Re:Immaterial? (1)

Elvis Parsley (939954) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385358)

Damn right. They can have my flying pink unicorn when they pry it from my cold, dead hands.

Look where fighting them in their terms brought us (1)

Pac (9516) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385334)

You are wrong. Reducing the copyright duration is exactly the other side of raising the copyright duration, and in fighting for the former you recognize the latter as a valid option. And you can't win: the corporation will always have money to buy more politicians than you, directly by depositing the money in offshore banks or indirectly by buying TV time, hiring campaign staffers, buiyng journalists and pundits to both praise their side and demonize/destroy you.

I think theirs is a perfect emergency platform - nullify all intelectual property and dismiss all copyright laws before it is too late. Then we start over carefully and see what we really need.

Not that they have a chance (maybe as a seed to germinate elsewhere in the world) but it would be funny to see RIAA (or some EU sister)running to install the equipment to stop the waves carrying their IP from reaching Sweeden.

Re:Immaterial? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385392)

Copyright used to be sensible, roundabout 15 or twenty years methinks... but when $$$$$ comes into the picture everything changes...

Re:Immaterial? (1)

Ubergrendle (531719) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385463)

By defining themselves as the _Piracy_ Party, they tacitly acknowledge their unethical stance and self-centered worldview. I'd have more respect for them if they were named "The Free Knowledge" Party or something similar... there is merit in taking a position that copyright is arbirtary and works against society's best interests -- this would be an earnest, noble cause to champion. Even if you disagree with the position, at least it would be well intentioned. But "The Piracy Party" simply screams "attention whore", the political equivalent of a 2 year old temper tantrum -- MINE MINE MINE!

Excellent !!! (5, Funny)

ThinWhiteDuke (464916) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385222)

More pirates means less global warming [venganza.org]

I think the best part about a Piracy Party (4, Funny)

Sheetrock (152993) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385223)

Is that you don't have to go through all the trouble of fundraising. Just grab what you need when you need it.

Re:I think the best part about a Piracy Party (0, Offtopic)

operagost (62405) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385342)

-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
Err... confused the Vulcan with the child psychologist again.

In related news... (0)

Cheapy (809643) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385226)

In related news, the leadership of The Pirate Party are being sued for copyright infringement by multiple corporations.

Tricky! (1)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385281)

It's tricky to do something like this.
How can a criminal be elected so he can depenalize the very same things he's illegally doing?

It would be like naming Al Capone for the US senate to ban the Dry Law.

The solution: Name a person who doesn't have a record of file sharing (or name a scapegoat for him) and propose him for the ellections.

Re:Tricky! (4, Informative)

kidtwist (726601) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385338)

It would be like naming Al Capone for the US senate to ban the Dry Law.

Al Capone did not want to repeal prohibition. It's what made him money. Professional racketeers usually like the laws they're breaking, it means they're performing a service for which others will pay them.

Going too far, most people just want a balance (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385227)

People don't want to live in the environment these people are describing. They merely don't want their rights curtailed.

Would you like to live in an anarchy? No. It'd suck because there were no rules.

Likewise this would suck.

Instead they should just be holding back on patents, fighting for fair-term copyrights (e.g., 50 years maximum), and fair-use rights (purchased music is owned and can be copied by the owner as many times, but not redistributed unless all other copies are destroyed/included in the redistribution) and to not have spyware installed on the computer regardless of how they respond to the EULA. Basically, strong limitations on what the corporations can and cannot do, and some restrictions on the users to encourage responsible behaviour.

Re:Going too far, most people just want a balance (4, Interesting)

Rei (128717) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385346)

How many copyrights do most people own? If you guessed "none", you'd be right.

Please explain your view of why this is "anarchy" (defined by dictionary.com as "Absense of any form of political authority").

I know it may be hard for you to accept, but there are those who believe that intellectual property rights are more destructive than beneficial, and that any theoretical reduction in intellectual property production/IP quality is well worth the benefits of having all IP in the public domain. You may disagree with this viewpoint, but that's no reason to demean them with overly dramatic language for holding that viewpoint.

In fact, I would argue that you look at China as an example of what happens in a country with poor IP control. Almost all CDs sold in China are produced by professional pirates (not kids downloading music on their computers). Is there no domestic Chinese music industry? Hardly. Chinese musicians make most of their money through concerts, doing ad spots, and all sorts of other means.

More Criminals should try this (1, Interesting)

ranton (36917) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385230)

This is a strange new idea, instead of following the law you instead try to gain political power and change the laws. I know there are a few people out there that actually can convince themselves that they are not stealing, but I doubt they could get 4% of a country to feel the same way.

Are there really that many people, even on Slashdot, that think stealing intellectual property is not wrong?

Re:More Criminals should try this (5, Insightful)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385267)

Are there really that many people, even on Slashdot, that think stealing intellectual property is not wrong?

Hopefully, most people on Slashdot are educated enough to know that "stealing intellectual property" is not even possible, by definition. (Well, maybe it is possible with some sort of memory erasing device.)

Re:More Criminals should try this (1)

ranton (36917) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385363)

"stealing intellectual property" is not even possible, by definition

You make this statement in such a way that it seams you actually believe it. Theft is any time that someone acquires property from someone without their permission. Intellectual property is something that someone has created that may not be a physical object, but still has some commercial value.

Just because the victim does not lose his intellectual property does not mean it isnt stolen. If a teenager stole my car every night and when joyriding but brought in back every morning before I left for work I would still consider it stealing.

Stealing is acquiring property without permission, so how is "stealing intellectual property" not possible?

Re:More Criminals should try this (4, Insightful)

99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385447)

Theft is any time that someone acquires property from someone without their permission.

From Webster: Steal v. t. "To take, and carry away, feloniously; to take without right or leave, and with intent to keep wrongfully; as, to steal the personal goods of another."

How exactly can I carry away so called intellectual property? Do do so (rather than to copy it and carry away a copy) requires that I deprive the original "owner" of that property. Making a copy of a dollar bill is not called stealing, it is called counterfeiting. Making a copy of a copyrighted book without permission is not called stealing. It is called copyright infringement. Knowingly violating a patent is not called stealing. It is called patent violation (or patent infringement). Passing off another's work as my own is not stealing. It is called plagiarism. Buy a dictionary already.

If a teenager stole my car every night and when joyriding but brought in back every morning before I left for work I would still consider it stealing.

...but you'd probably be wrong. They may have illegally borrowed your car, but if they intend to return it, it is not stealing, unless you count them keeping it for a time as "keeping it." In any case, copying something is not stealing it. That is why we have different words for different things. It makes these distinctions clear.

Re:More Criminals should try this (2, Informative)

Rei (128717) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385455)

Applicable definitions of "Steal", from dictionary.com:

"To take (the property of another) without right or permission."
"To commit theft"

Applicable definitions of "Take", from dictionary.com:

"To capture physically; sieze."

Applicable definitions of "Theft", from dictionary.com:

"The act or instance of stealing; larceny."

Applicable definitions of "Larceny", from dictionary.com:

"The unlawful taking and removing of another's personal property with the intent of permanently depriving the owner; theft."

I find it hard to read "piracy" into "stealing", given the definitions. Now, you can argue that the language is obsolete and that it should be included, but then it is *you* who are arguing against the language.

Re:More Criminals should try this (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385288)

This is a strange new idea, instead of following the law you instead try to gain political power and change the laws.

No it isn't. We got the idea from the RIAA. They have been doing it for many years.

Re:More Criminals should try this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385303)

Dude, get over it. It's not stealing. Stealing is defined as depriving another of their property. If you illegally copy an intellectual property, you haven't deprived anybody of their property. It is criminal, but it isn't stealing.

If you make a custom motorcycle and I break into your garage and take it, I have stolen it. If I take a picture of it and make my own exact replica, I haven't stolen anything.

Re:More Criminals should try this (1)

ranton (36917) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385404)

No, stealing is any time that someone acquires property without the owner's permission. The owner does not have to lose the property for it to be considered stealing.

People on Slashdot often complain that laws cannot keep up with technology, but here is a case where people refuse to let the law catch up. Copyright law is something that was created to stop theft, just a different type of theft than simply breaking into someone's house and taking a car.

Re:More Criminals should try this (0, Flamebait)

DarkGreenNight (647707) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385311)

Are there really that many people, even on Slashdot, that think stealing intellectual property is not wrong?

1) it's not stealing, it can be copywright infridgement
2) sometimes, in some countries, it's legal
3) "Right" and "Wrong" depen on your point of view.

Re:More Criminals should try this (1)

operagost (62405) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385364)

3) "Right" and "Wrong" depen on your point of view.
I'm right, you're wrong.

Re:More Criminals should try this (1)

sp3tt (856121) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385337)

There are more than one million file sharers in Sweden, out of a population of 9 million. Not bad.

And yes, I do believe that "stealing" intellectual "property" (huge misnomer) isn't theft, as scarcity is the base of property rights. Further, intellectual property laws prevent me from doing what I wish with my property, even if I have not agreed to a contract with anyone.

Re:More Criminals should try this (1)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385343)

Are there really that many people, even on Slashdot, that think stealing intellectual property is not wrong?

I think you meant to say...

"Are there really that many people, even on Slashdot, that think committing copyright infringement in certain cases (note: copyright infringement is NOT stealing - and please DON'T mix copyright with patents by using this absurd term "intellectual property") is not wrong?"

Or maybe:

"Are there really that many people, even on Slashdot, that think sharing overpriced content (owned by evil monopolies who exploit and underpay innocent musicians) is not wrong?"

There! :) Now I can raise my hand.

Re:More Criminals should try this (0, Troll)

ranton (36917) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385452)

(owned by evil monopolies who exploit and underpay innocent musicians)

So the best way to fight evil is to commit evil acts yourself?

Is killing the only way to stop murder?
Is slavery the only way to stop oppression?
Is violence the only way to stop aggression?
Is stealing the only way to stop theft?

And by the way, I do not see too many mainstream musicians being underpaid. I see them simply flying around in their private jets and spending millions of dollars on jewelry.

Re:More Criminals should try this (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385345)

Are there really that many people, even on Slashdot, that think stealing intellectual property is not wrong?

It really depends on whose intellectual property is being infringed. If it's a "faceless corporation" which has a market cap of millions, then it's perfectly acceptable to copy and distribute whatever they put out. Afterall, information wants to be FREE.

But try to violate the GPL terms, or, god forbid, try to take someone's crappy image composite (made on a pirated Photoshop) and you'll be savaged to death by hoardes of internet users who feel that their "work" is being stolen.

I don't like the RIAA, MPAA, and few other **AAs. It has mainly to do with their anti-piracy tactics and business practices, but the fact that most of us pirate content and engage in hypocricy is an undeniable fact. There is a double standard when it comes to intellectual property. Going by what I've experienced, overwhelming majority of people are in favor of protecting creator rights, it's just a matter of whose.

There's only a small minority who outright advocate "open market of ideas," which includes licensed content.

Re:More Criminals should try this (1)

Xugumad (39311) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385405)

I think this is a great idea. I'm also kinda hoping they'll succeed , mostly because I want to watch from the relatively safety of the UK; not that I'm saying this will bring about the fall of civilisation and/or open a portal to hell, or even just mean no-one will produce IP targetted at a Swedish audience, just that I like the idea of another country finding out how this goes, first.

lesser of two evils (1)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385413)

stealing intellectual property is wrong

but what intellectual property holders are allowed to do to enforce that idea is worse

Re:More Criminals should try this (1)

Heisenbug (122836) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385414)

Are there really that many people, even on Slashdot, that think stealing intellectual property is not wrong?

Stealing intellectual property is when you claim you own a copyright, trademark, or patent that you do not own. Recording studios do it all the time [superswell.com] , as do software companies [sco.com] , and you're right that most people on Slashdot think it's wrong.

What you're talking about is infringement, but if you insist on using physical metaphors, it would be more accurate to call it 'trespassing'. Do many people on Slashdot think trespassing on intellectual property is sometimes ok? Sure they do. Trespassing is usually harmless -- I bet you've done it yourself, in real life.

Re:More Criminals should try this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385424)

This is a strange new idea, instead of following the law you instead try to gain political power and change the laws.
It's called democracy - you should try it.

Obligatorty (1)

McGiraf (196030) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385428)

Are there really that many people, even on Slashdot, that think stealing intellectual property is not wrong?

You must be new here ...

Re:More Criminals should try this (1)

pla (258480) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385432)

Are there really that many people, even on Slashdot, that think stealing intellectual property is not wrong?

I'd say quite the opposite of your point - It takes a herculean effort to convince people that "stealing" intangibles counts as a crime in any way at all. We learn from a young age that society considers "sharing" a good trait; The entirety of IP law goes against that, and with the best possible sharing-"goods", ones that we can share yet still use ourselves.

In my personal experience, most people understand IP crimes only by analogy to plaguerism - Stealing another person's ideas for personal (possibly financial) gain. But on pushing that analogy, it fails miserably... in private; for no gain beyond the enjoyment of the work itself; for "librarians" (the people who collect all 27,342 known NES roms including all variants, hacks, and PD games, when they couldn't possibly play all of them if they did nothing else for an entire lifetime); for "small" numbers off offenses; etc.

So I'd have to say that if you take away the assorted laws against IP-related crime, it wouldn't take anything at all to convince most people that they can and should "share" intangibles once again. For that matter, I'd say you can just look at how seriously most people take IP law - namely, not at all. People might think twice about piracy on-line just because they've heard about getting caught. But ask a friend for a copy of a CD, and see if they even pause before agreeing.

Re:More Criminals should try this (1)

Red Flayer (890720) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385434)

" This is a strange new idea, instead of following the law you instead try to gain political power and change the laws."

I hope you were being sarcastic, but this idea is neither new nor strange... this is how US politics has worked since day 1.

This is also the main precept of democracy in governmental theory -- by the social contract you agree to abide by the law, even if you disagree with it. You are welcome to work to change the law, however -- which is the nice thing about participatory democracy.

In theory, this is what makes democracy effective.

Re:More Criminals should try this (1)

stinerman (812158) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385444)

I believe that the using/copying/etc of any sort of "intellectual property" should be legal for non-commerical uses. I would say that copyright should look more like the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial [creativecommons.org] license.

Within the system? (1)

drdanny_orig (585847) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385235)

While I usually applaud any attempt at mini-revolutions from within, I think in this case they'd get better results collecting money with which to bribe members already in parliament. Voters vote conscience: MPs vote $. (Or whatever symbol the Swedes use for their currency.)

Oops....is my cynicism showing?

Gimmicky parties stand no chance (0, Offtopic)

Idimmu Xul (204345) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385241)

My ninja party will fuck them up!

Cute (1, Insightful)

Perseid (660451) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385245)

This is cute, but unfortunately that's all I give it. Granted, I don't know much/anything about how Swedish politics works, but in the US I could never vote in someone who only runs on one platform, even if it was a platform I agreed on.

Re:Cute (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385308)

That's true, Americans vote for the one with the most money, the nicest propaganda, media and charade. Damn, it's such a circus!

I can only speak for my country, but we have in the parlement at least 5 different parties. There's no "or republican Or democrat" choice. Elections are about content, not presentation.

Why not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385403)

Why do you need to know everything a person stands for in order to vote for them. If you want someone to represent you in regards to corporate reform, vote for someone from the corporate reformation party and let them do their thing. Sure they'll vote on the other stuff.... but since they don't have a specific opinion (other than personnal) going in, they're just as likely to listen to the people they represent as your average bought and paid for politician. Seriously, it's not that hard a job, anyone can do it, you don't need a professional politician, after all, do you really want your representative to be a soulless reptilian creature of infinite evil?

Re:Cute (1)

IngramJames (205147) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385423)

Granted, I don't know much/anything about how Swedish politics works, but in the US I could never vote in someone who only runs on one platform, even if it was a platform I agreed on.

A quick wiki [wikipedia.org] confirmed my initial assumption that Sweden (like a fair few European countries) has a government elected by proportional representation.

So if enough people vote for you over the country as a whole, you get a seat in the elected body which legislates. This means that while you have the extreme parties represented (far right, far left etc), minority views like the Greens also get a look in.

All in all, IMHO, it's a much fairer system than the first-past-the-post we have in the UK, and in the USA, whereby if you're not a member of a major party, you simply don't stand a chance (freak exceptions [wikipedia.org] where the other candidates all stand down aside). So any minority view (ie one which the all major parties feel would lose them votes) will never even get discussed, because nobody would be mad enough to get up and propose it - and even if they do, they'll get short shrift.

Government by the people, for the people (2, Insightful)

Stephen Williams (23750) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385249)

Government is supposed to exist for the benefit of the population, not the other way around. Therefore, if a majority of the population oppose an existing law, the law is probably wrong. So if the majority of the population think that sharing music is acceptable, the law should probably reflect that. Record labels and some musicians may disagree, but they're not the majority.

(Of course, this whole argument breaks down when one considers some of the things that a large proportion of the population would dearly love to legalize. If the tabloid-reading majority had their way, we'd have an immediate end to immigration, public lynching of suspected paedophiles, and all manner of other entertainment).

-Stephen

Re:Government by the people, for the people (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385321)

And these are bad things why?

Re:Government by the people, for the people (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385361)

The government isn't really supposed to get too involved with business. If you don't like the product enough to pay the price for it, don't get it.

That Long, Long List of Great Swedish Musicians (2, Funny)

RobotRunAmok (595286) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385261)

Not to mention novelists and filmmakers. Won't someone think about THEIR rights?

Oh, wait...

Not good marketing, but some good ideas (3, Insightful)

shanen (462549) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385270)

It really is time to reconsider the incentives of intellectual property, though sticking the label of "piracy" on such reform does not seem to be the best way to market the idea. However, the current IP laws are clearly completely divorced from the original idea, which was to maximize innovation for the benefit of society. Maximizing profit for the sake of large owners of IP was NOT the idea, but the IP owners have been writing and rewriting the laws for so long that there's nothing else left.

In particular, derivative works are often the sources of significant new ideas, but the current laws make that very dangerous. Punchline: Walt Disney's stuff was highly derivative, but if a new creator tried to do the same stuff to Disney, Inc., they'd slap him in jail sooooo fast.

However, the largest abuse is probably unlimited term extension for copyright. There is almost nothing left for "society" in that area.

What about the small guys..? (2, Interesting)

mofomojo (810520) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385273)

This is the only real rebuttal that pro-copy protection people have. The indie community will be terribly hurt by any new laws that state that it's now legal to opy illegally.

Also, I think it would be better to abolish ones claim on intellectual property after a reason timespan, similar to how patents expire, with the exception that it's shorter. Like per se, 3 to 5 years.

This gives the creator some incentive to make a product, giving it an edge in the industry for a few years, and after that, when everyone's seen it and it's big boom is over, I think the bit of intellectual property should go to the community.

I think that this plan will work best with both sides. Demoting the greed that seems to lay on both sides.

Plus, is the developing world really hurting since they can't get a OEM copy of Windows? I think what's really hurting them is their seeming lack of food, fair trade policies, and a decent education.

Obligatory Muppet Show (with a twist) (1)

jgbishop (861610) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385274)

Q: What do Swedish pirates say when they find a film good enough to pirate?
A: Der flim is okee-dokee!

Ba-dum tsss!

Slashdot Poll!! (2, Interesting)

earthstar (748263) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385276)

Slashdot poll with this party pls !

As for the results,Question is whether they will have 99% or 100 % of sladotters votes!

Wow. (5, Insightful)

mcc (14761) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385278)

That's great. It must be absolutely awesome to live in a country where there's more than two political parties.

Err, wait a minute.

*thinks*
 
...
 
I mean, it must be absolutely awesome to live in a country where there's more than one political party.

In the US . . . (3, Funny)

cashman73 (855518) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385300)

If this party were in the U.S., isn't it actually called the Communist Party ? I mean, if communism is all about no private ownership, public property, and all that. Then again, I guess even in Soviet Russia, they pirate state property.

Or maybe it's, in Soviet Russia, state property pirates YOU!

Or something like that,... I digress!

Re:In the US . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385356)

your anti-stupidity pills have failed

competition (1)

JoeBar (546577) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385314)

Think they'll be a political threat to the Sweedish Bikini Party?

The Bodström Shield (4, Informative)

liangzai (837960) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385315)

Although I agree with many of their positions, they are a bit extreme in their desire to abolish ALL immaterial rights. Such rights, given that they are implemented the right way for a limited period, are useful to encourage invention and artistic production. The main problem of today is the excessive implementations of IM, not IM in itself.

One of their goals is to fire the current minister of justice, Thomas Bodström, and I whole-heartedly support this. He has implemented the "Bodström filters" in Sweden, and the country has thus joined the club of filter regimes (Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, Bahrain etc.). He is also the man behind increased surveillance of phones, e-mail and other means of communication in Sweden, and he has been labeled as dangerous to society by many leading newspaper columnists.

The sad reality is that this "Bodström Shield" probably will be implemented in most of Europe rather than be dismantled. This is the unfortunate political trend of today, initiated by the Bush administration.

The Pirate Party says it will allow Mr. Bodström selling hotdogs outside the parliament building, at least in the winter.

The party stands no chance of reaching the required 4% to reach parliamentary seats, although Sweden has many such fringe parties. They may, however, affect the attitude of other parties, which may take a ride on the popular train of file sharing.

Re:The Bodström Shield (1)

everphilski (877346) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385443)

He has implemented the "Bodström filters" in Sweden, and the country has thus joined the club of filter regimes (Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, Bahrain etc.).
This is the unfortunate political trend of today, initiated by the Bush administration.

You mention filtering internet connections and then bring up Bush. Not sure what you are talking about, we Americans still have unfiltered internet. Thanks. And if it was a shot at the recent spying on americans (which has nothing to do with filtering) well go educate yourself, its been going on since the 70's.

-everphilski-

Stop it with the failed business model BS (1)

Red Flayer (890720) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385323)

"Even if they the party gets no-one elected"

Is 'They the Party' anything like 'We, the People'? I'm sure it was something lost in translation (or gained, in this instance).

"They will refuse to allow data retention nonsense based on terrorism claims or failed RIAA business models."

I am so sick and tired of hearing about 'failed RIAA business models.' This has nothing to do with the traditional record industry business model -- it has everything to do with whether IP is valid property or not. Business models should never enter into a discussion of the validity of IP, since IP is a theoretical construct that doesn't depend on business models for its existence, regardless of what the motivation for original IP laws was.

What it boils down to is:

Do I have a right to control distribution of ideas I have had?

This has nothing to do with the fact that the way some companies have chosen to control distribution isn't making them as much money as they'd like.

Do we bring Rum or Absolut? (5, Funny)

digitaldc (879047) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385339)

To a Swedish Piracy Party?

Fantastic! (1)

mmell (832646) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385351)

Now I'll have a chance to download all of those ABBA hits which I'm missing.

Jolly Roger? (1)

BadassJesus (939844) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385353)

I am just wondering what their official flag might be?

We make jokes... (1)

Billosaur (927319) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385369)

...but at least these folks are trying. Will it catch on? Who knows. But those of us in the USA could take a page from this book. There are lots of complaints that you can't get a voice in the system thanks to the Republicans and Democrats, but last I checked people in this country were allowed to hold contrary opinions to the major parties. And their are literally hundreds of parties in this country, though most represent small minorities of people.

All it would take is a grass roots campaign, an issue that people of many stripes could believe in and would vote for. Start with the Internet, work on people, gather funds, and make noise. Look at well Howard Dean did gathering support (until the media crucified him) on the Internet, and Al Gore to a lesser extent. It would take time, organization, dedication, and commitment, but ti could work. What's the worst that happens?

Re:We make jokes... (1)

marco.antonio.costa (937534) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385453)

What's the worst that happens?

The CIA kills all of you, the government will blame terrorism and use that as an excuse to tighten security even more and turn the USA into the FIRST GALACTIC EMPIRE, and the files on the whole case wont be allowed disclosure until 2199. =)

But I hope they get the votes. Something big could happen.

Bad for those fighting intellectual property (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385376)

It's really too bad the party took on a serious issue like abolishing intellectual property with a name containing 'piracy'. This will be bad for those actually trying to abolish intellectual property because they will now be made to appear extremist.

An example will be made of these fools.

Interesting story (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385378)

This was on digg.com [digg.com] a few days ago. I am linking to the story because I want to show the rest of the much maligned slashdotters that there is no need to feel like our beloved news site is under threat.

1. This story broke on digg.com before any credible sources had covered it. This meant that the guy who "dugg" it had to link to his own blog post (not strictly true - he could have waited). This is A Bad Thing, even on digg.

2. Read the comments. Here are some of the more choice ones:
  • arrr, I was not hailed, arrr!
  • his noodlyness is most certainly pleased
  • I, for one, welcome our Swedish-IP-free-for-all overlords!
  • This story is going to be very big....I can just see the record industry spinning in their chairs. Don't the Swiss do the most interesting thing. The Red Cross, Swiss Bank Accounts and now this. Not that any of them are bad...it's just that I wonder what the Swiss stand for. Good? Evil? I bet it's more complicated than that.
  • maddox should be the spokesperson
  • Pirates on board! Aye Aye Captain! :)

Here, you wouldn't need to wade through that. Chances are, people wouldn't even take the time to post it, since the moderation system actually makes people think about what they're typing.

It's redundant by now to point out that digg is about the stories, not the comments, but this story demonstrates that digg doesn't even have a consistent advantage in its supposed area of strength, and it illustrates it so well that I decided it was too good to pass up.

sometings written about it here.. (1)

io-waiter (745875) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385382)

Its not your average blog, and no its not mine.
http://battleangel.org/item/1946 [battleangel.org]

Some interesting stuff there though.

Loose translation (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385385)

from http://technocrat.net/article.pl?sid=06/01/03/0045 243&mode=thread [technocrat.net] Here is a loose translation of the Pirate Party's start page:

Phase 1: Gather signatures for the Election Authority

We need 1500 signatures before the end of February in order to enter the parliamentary elections for 2006. In order to have a small safety margin we shall gather 2000 before February 4th, that gives us time to finish the administrivia for the Election Authority (which is nearly guaranteed to dislike us, or what)

Just right now we are validating all the signatures. We have received over 4000 signatures in less than 24 hours. Right now we are going through the whole lot to verify that we can provide them to the Election Authority.

What is this about?

The Pirate Party aims to take up the roll of maintaining a balance of power after the 2006 election. There are between 800 000 and 1 100 000 active file swappers in Sweden, and they are all tired of being called criminals. We need to have 225 000 of them with us to cross the four percent threshold and land in the roll of power balance.

To get one fourth of a criminalized and angry mob with us is far from unachievable. It is that which we shall achieve in the coming nine months.

Are youse serious?

"You had better believe it. This is the real thing."

What is the Pirate Party's platform?

The Pirate Party's platform is the abolishment of immaterial property (copyright, patents, trademarks and patterns) and the derivative effects (extra fees on blank tapes) and is furthermore very strongly interested in protecting personal integrity (among other things that the data retention law shall not be implemented, and an expansion on the privacy of written correspondence to cover all communications, and a constitutional right to personal privacy.) We do not take a position in any other questions, especially not other politically divisive issues. (the point with that is that you should be able to vote for the Pirate Party without changing your position in the left-right scale of Swedish politics)

Furthermore we stand for that Thomas Bodström shall not accomplish new general tasks, as per his escapades with the data retention law

Which is the Pirate Party, Left or Right?

It is quaintly amusing that the Left accuses us of being for the Right while the Right accuses us of being for the Left. The Left reasons that culture is a generality, the Right that immaterial property create market damaging monopolies. Others simply don't care about Left-Right ideology and simply want to put an end to further hinderance of the advancement of technology and society for the sake of a short term profit.

Abolish trademarks too? (5, Insightful)

evilandi (2800) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385407)

The party wants to abolish all intellectual property laws

So, er, if trademarks and similar are abolished, how do you make sure you're voting for the real Piracy Party, and not something with the same name but vastly different policies set up as a stunt by the Swedish Anti-Piracy Bureau?

Poor Choice of Name (1)

xdc (8753) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385408)

The Piracy Party? Come on! They could hardly have chosen a worse name if they want to garner mainstream support. By using the label "piracy" they imply that they represent primarily criminal intent. Surely there is a better term they could have used that would accentuate the positive aspects of the unfettered exchange of information. Tsk, tsk.

The situation is weird (1)

Psionicist (561330) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385416)

This could actually work. It's not uncommon for small parties to appear like this in Sweden and get craploads of votes. For example, the small party June List ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junilistan [wikipedia.org] ) is only a few years old, but they got around 15% of the votes in the EU-parliament election in 2004. They only thing the June List care about is not moving too much power to the EU. Given that around 80% of all young adults vote in Sweden this little piracy party could actually get enough votes. This sounds good for the pirates, but it probably isn't. The party is very disorganized, their ideas are a little to radical for most Swedes (heck, I don't know a single pirate who want to abolish _all_ ntellectual property laws) and the party is not very serious sounding either. Their leader was completely unknown until today, only known under the handle "falconwing". I bet he will get lots of votes from the elderly. ;) Anyhow, this is interesting because now all the bigger parties have to make up their mind. 1 out of 9 swedes do download music after all.

Translated article (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385418)

Swedish media has a lot more to say about this, here's a translation of the initial interview on SvD.se most of the media buzz comes from: http://www.obli.net/item/328 [obli.net]

privacy vs intellectual property (1)

dtfinch (661405) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385420)

How can private information be protected without intellectual property laws?

Good but regressive. (2, Insightful)

komodo9 (577710) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385438)

Heh, it's a losing battle. Even though I'm very against the RIAA and all bodies like that, such need to exist to protect intellectual property. Without them we would stop getting new content. The scary part is with such few votes, it's possible for them to be successful.
--
United Bimmer - BMW Enthusiast Community [unitedbimmer.com]

In other news. (0)

Chemisor (97276) | more than 8 years ago | (#14385439)

The mafia forms a political party, named "The Lovers of the Italian Opera" dedicated to legalization of loan sharking, money laundering, drug dealing, theft, and murder.

They could get someone elected. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14385454)

The Linux counter site gives about 2700 counted users in Sweden. They estimate that the counted users represent between 0.2 and 5 percent of the total. So, if we take a relatively conservative guess that the counted users represent one percent of Linux users, there are enough Linux users in Sweden to elect a member. The trick is to get them all out to vote.

I always thought proportional representation was a bad system because it led to unstable governments. I think I'm coming around to the idea that it might be a good idea. Now I find that accepting the entire platform of one of the major parties is unpalitable and voting for anyone else is throwing away my vote. I'm tired of being ruled by governments that most people voted against.

counter.li.org/reports/short.txt
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