Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Winter Carnival of Gamers

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the snow-covered-clowns dept.

Games 50

The monthly roving blog-feature The Carnival of Gamers has pulled into station at the 'Kill Ten Rats' blog. This month offers up features about such diverse topics as MMOG holiday events, the first year of the DS, and the ambiguous morality of Shadow of the Colossus. From the latter article: "I absolutely loved Shadow, but to want more colossi? I actually made it all the way to the last colossus. The killing has to stop somewhere, people. If the price of love is my soul, I would gladly pay it. But was it love I was fighting for, or my own selfish desires I was commiting murder for? It took far too long, but I came to realize it was the latter. And that's not something I was willing to do any longer. Once I laid eyes on the final colossus, I just sat the controller down. And I turned the game off. I still haven't beaten that colossus and I don't plan to." Slashdot Games is playing host to the carnival next month. Look for the call for submissions in a week or two.

cancel ×

50 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Shadow of the Colossus (1, Funny)

knight37 (864173) | more than 8 years ago | (#14402967)

Once I laid eyes on the final colossus, I just sat the controller down. And I turned the game off. I still haven't beaten that colossus and I don't plan to.

Wuss.

Re:Shadow of the Colossus (1)

SScorpio (595836) | more than 8 years ago | (#14402992)

Definately. Yes the last Colossus is frickin' huge, but the ending to teh game is so bitter sweet you need to finish it just to experience it.

Re:Shadow of the Colossus (1)

Godeke (32895) | more than 8 years ago | (#14403808)

Yeah, I have to wonder what his reaction at that unusual ending would have been. "I've killed all these creatures so *this* can happen?" Kind of a shame he didn't finish...

Re:Shadow of the Colossus (1)

Reapy (688651) | more than 8 years ago | (#14408380)

Wierd he balked on the last one. That was the only colossus that was really "evil looking" as opposed to many of the others. Perhaps one of my favorite ones and probably ones i felt were the most docile was the flying desert one you had to use Agro to catch up to becuase he flew around so fast. That guy never once attacked you, you just rode him down and slaughtered him. I guess he had no problem with that one and the giant fireball spewing monster at the end gave him a sudden dose of morality. :)

But in the end... it's a freaken video game...

heh (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14403082)

It seems that the plural [bartleby.com] of colossus is, indeed, colossi.

I go to bed less stupid each day.

Quick, somebody call PETA!!! (2, Insightful)

abramovs (744048) | more than 8 years ago | (#14403126)

What about all those poor car owners whose ride is stolen in Grand Theft Auto?
Don't the zombies in DOOM have a right to shamble?
Should we be force feeding Pacman?

Seriously, what's next? Will we hear an argument from a Veegan that they can't play Mario because eating flowers is wrong?

Re:Quick, somebody call PETA!!! (4, Insightful)

The NPS (899303) | more than 8 years ago | (#14403512)

I think the significance here is that the zombies in doom are two-dimensional (literally and figuratively), and therefore it is easy to write them off. Likewise, the pedestrians of GTA are again, comical, two-dimensional representatives of real people, and are just as easy to write off.

But the world of Shadow of the the Colossus is vivid enough that it feels less like a video game, and more like a something real. It's easy to watch people die in Evil Dead, but terrible to watch it happen in Saving Private Ryan (which oddly, has about the same amount of gore).

Re:Quick, somebody call PETA!!! (1)

servognome (738846) | more than 8 years ago | (#14404629)

It's easy to watch people die in Evil Dead, but terrible to watch it happen in Saving Private Ryan (which oddly, has about the same amount of gore).

Kinda how we don't care about Arnold shooting up rent-a-cops who just happen to work at EvilCorp.
He's just some poor guy getting minimum wage, waiting until his shift is over so he can go home to his run-down apartment and spend time with his wife and kid. And we cheer when he gets a shotgun blast to the chest just cause he pointed his flashlight and said "stop" to the hero who was breaking into the top secret lab.

Don't even get me started on the contractors working on the second death star, not to mention the adminstration staff on the first death star. Probably just some guys thinking they had a cushy government job watching the clock and filing paperwork for prisoner transfers to cellblock 1138. Hell, even the stormtroopers were probably guys who just graduated highschool, and needed money to go to college and see the galaxy.

In the end it's true - "Good, Bad... I'm the one with the gun"

Re:Quick, somebody call PETA!!! (1)

smbarbour (893880) | more than 8 years ago | (#14404810)

Hell, even the stormtroopers were probably guys who just graduated highschool, and needed money to go to college and see the galaxy.

The problem here is that as any fan of Star Wars would know, all of the stormtroopers are subserviant clones of Jango Fett and therefore property of the Empire.

I don't know if it was originally planned like this, but it's kind of ironic how this is referenced in Episode IV. When Luke and Han arrive at the prison cell, Leia says "Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?". Since all stormtroopers are clones of the same person, they would all be the same height.

Re:Quick, somebody call PETA!!! (1)

servognome (738846) | more than 8 years ago | (#14405273)

I don't know if it was originally planned like this, but it's kind of ironic how this is referenced in Episode IV. When Luke and Han arrive at the prison cell, Leia says "Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?". Since all stormtroopers are clones of the same person, they would all be the same height.

Like many other things, I'm sure it wasn't. If you look at the OT there were troopers of different heights, different voices (handwaved away by GL as multiple clone sources). You also have the scene where two of the troopers are chatting about some new speeder, doubtful that was part of their clone training.

clones (1)

eudas (192703) | more than 8 years ago | (#14405398)

iirc not all of them were clones; the clones were just the initial army. after that, they went into conscription and/or stepped up regular enlistment, so they had more non-clones later.

eudas

Re:Quick, somebody call PETA!!! (1)

Minna Kirai (624281) | more than 8 years ago | (#14424587)

The problem here is that as any fan of Star Wars would know, all of the stormtroopers are subserviant clones of Jango Fett and therefore property of the Empire.

Impossible. A Star Wars fan, by definition, could not have sat through Episode 1, or seen any of II or III at all.

Since all stormtroopers are clones of the same person, they would all be the same height.

Plenty of official Lucas-branded media prior to the release of Episode 2 explicitly said that Stormtroopers were recruited from the normal population.

Re:Quick, somebody call PETA!!! (1)

Corbu Mulak (931063) | more than 8 years ago | (#14405540)

Don't even get me started on the contractors working on the second death star, not to mention the adminstration staff on the first death star. Probably just some guys thinking they had a cushy government job watching the clock and filing paperwork for prisoner transfers to cellblock 1138. Hell, even the stormtroopers were probably guys who just graduated highschool, and needed money to go to college and see the galaxy.

Have you not seen Clerks?

Re:Quick, somebody call PETA!!! (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 8 years ago | (#14407364)

You sound like you enjoyed Austin Powers.

Re:Quick, somebody call PETA!!! (1)

Breakfast Pants (323698) | more than 8 years ago | (#14407611)

Did you even watch Terminator 2? The kid ordered him not to kill anyone and he didn't.

Re:Quick, somebody call PETA!!! (1)

ClamIAm (926466) | more than 8 years ago | (#14403597)

Dude, plants are a major food source for Vegans. You might be thinking of carnivores.

Re:Quick, somebody call PETA!!! (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 8 years ago | (#14407406)

When those flowers and mushrooms have eyes I doubt a vegan would still touch them.

Trying too hard to be clever (1)

bateleur (814657) | more than 8 years ago | (#14403136)

Of all the games of which to worry about the morality I'm not sure Shadow of the Colossus would be top of my list.

Grand Theft Auto series anyone ?

Re:Trying too hard to be clever (1)

normal_guy (676813) | more than 8 years ago | (#14403271)

There's no question in GTA. The morality of everyone involved is unambiguous. You assume the role of a violent gangster. Killing off an entire race of peaceful behemoths one by one so you can present trophies to an idol in an effort to revive your girlfriend is slightly more challenging ethically.

Re:Trying too hard to be clever (1)

bateleur (814657) | more than 8 years ago | (#14403362)

So what you're saying here is that it's fine to murder provided the people you're murdering aren't very nice ?!

Re:Trying too hard to be clever (1)

Eggman27 (587963) | more than 8 years ago | (#14403713)

That's not what he's saying at all. The point is that characters in GTA are very clear in their moral standpoints. There is no mistaking their morality. Killing for greed (revenge, just for kicks, etc.), stealing, driving recklessly - all morally reprehensible acts that the game glorifies but still makes no grey areas on the issue whether it's good or bad.

SotC, on the other hand, posits the question of morality of taking a life to save another. Is it admirable that you risk your own life and limb for love, or is it detestable that to reach your end, you must slaughter the colossi?

Re:Trying too hard to be clever (1)

Eggman27 (587963) | more than 8 years ago | (#14403742)

I meant to add that the question SotC poses is much harder to answer in terms of what is right morally ("more challenging ethically", to quote the first comment). With GTA, it isn't hard to answer at all - it's much more clear-cut.

Re:Trying too hard to be clever (1)

bateleur (814657) | more than 8 years ago | (#14403797)

I'm not sure it's that I've misunderstood so much as we seem to have a fundamental disagreement.

I believe that murder is morally wrong. This applies to SotC. This applies to GTA.

Both are fictional, so it doesn't bother me in the slightest. :-)

Re:Trying too hard to be clever (1)

Eggman27 (587963) | more than 8 years ago | (#14404058)

I agree that murder is morally wrong, but I guess that perhaps the question is not whether it's morally right or wrong to kill but rather is the protagonist in SotC more justified in his choice to kill than a GTA character because his end goal is more admirable? I suppose it's another question of ends justifying the means...

Re:Trying too hard to be clever (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 8 years ago | (#14404708)

The important thing to note here, actually, is that the main character in Shadow of the Colossus is considered to be a fairly moral figure. The main characters of all of the GTA games are not. It's the irony of a good person doing bad things that makes the ethics of the situation come to light.

Rob

Re:Trying too hard to be clever (1)

gamebouncer (943644) | more than 8 years ago | (#14405586)

This is an interesting topic for me. I'm not so much of a gamer as I am a gamer cultural analyst. I hear all the time from teachers that gaming is destroying our youth, blah blah blah. Same arguments probably could be heard about TV long ago. Anyway don't fight the inevitable but roll with it and use the medium to work for you. good economist article on morality and gaming: http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id =4246109 [economist.com] Eric Jones http://www.gamedaily.com/ [gamedaily.com]

Re:Trying too hard to be clever (1)

Jeffool (675688) | more than 8 years ago | (#14407843)

For what it's worth, I sometimes top twenty readers when I post, which itself is infrequent. I don't write to be clever so much as to sort out what I think about topics. And I just thought it'd be fun to toss it into the Carnival and see if anyone else felt like me. But there's where my point was missed. Yes I completely understand that the game was supposed to make you question your morals. But I was actually posting about the concept of people 'finishing' games, and using the delimma excellently presented in SotC as an example.

So, I am guilty of trying to be clever I guess... But I obviously failed miserably because no one got it. And failed at spellchecking the article... Long history of that, though.

Re:Trying too hard to be clever (1)

bateleur (814657) | more than 8 years ago | (#14407862)

You didn't fail in that respect though - the point about finishing games was well made. But, y'know, this is the internet and it's much more fun to poke holes in things than applaud them, right ? ;-)

Re:Trying too hard to be clever (1)

Jeffool (675688) | more than 8 years ago | (#14407873)

Are you kidding me? I blame Slashdot, Fark, and EvilAvatar, for my getting nothing productive done. Though if I get off my ass and make that CivIV mod I've been thinking about...

The longest excuse in the world... (0, Flamebait)

Chaffar (670874) | more than 8 years ago | (#14403150)

From TFA:
Is the game truly 'unifinished' just because the player stop playing it before an assumed 'end'?
Most games would have us believe yes, and reinforce that by giving us 'completion rates', but those aren't true gauges that we've exhausted a game's fun or emotional range so much as they are a measure of the amount of content we've plodded through.[...] Claiming a game is 'unifinished' is just silly. You may not finish the 'story', but you certainly finish the 'game'. When I turn off Tetris, the game is over...

Do0d!!!! Just admit that you couldn't beat the last colossus, you got pissed off, and never cared enough to try again. Alternatively, just admit that you s\/X0rZ. No need for go all "Schrödinger's Cat- dead and alive at the same time" crap...

so Slashdot admits it's a blog? (1)

rmm4pi8 (680224) | more than 8 years ago | (#14403438)

So when Slashdot hosts a blog carnival, can we all officially stop pretending that Slashdot isn't a blog? As a purely professional blogger (philosophy--see the link above), and one who reads mostly academic blogs (CrookedTimber, LanguageLog), I'm tired of Slashdotters ranting about blogs, which despite their quality-control-issues (not so different from /., eh?) are NOT simply endless whining.

Ummmm... (1)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 8 years ago | (#14405099)

can we all officially stop pretending that Slashdot isn't a blog
You must be new here.
Slashdot began as CmdrTaco's Blog.

I'm tired of Slashdotters ranting about blogs
You are on a blog, bitching about people who bitch about blogs.

Pot, meet Kettle. I hear you two have something in common.

Re:Ummmm... (1)

ReverendLoki (663861) | more than 8 years ago | (#14405212)

Aside from this site, I think I have visited all of 5 blogs and paid them any attention. Upon brief inspection, all 5 involved bitching about another blog at some point or another.

It's not being hypocritical - it seems to be a requirement of being a blog.

Someone call Jack Thompson (1)

Jtheletter (686279) | more than 8 years ago | (#14403602)

A gamer with - dare I say it - morals and remorse? (Over an NPC even!) This is going to ruin Jack's entire day.
;)

Re:Someone call Jack Thompson (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14405334)

Don't be silly. This is ammo FOR Manipulative Jack. Part of the typical gamer stance is that we can tell that videogames aren't real, that shooting all those drones doesn't mentally prime us as killers.

This joker obviously can't seperate fantasy (ohhh, I'm killing a magical being!) from reality (I'm mentally challenging myself for entertainment purposes). He needs a head doctor, and also to drop any pretention he may have of representing a normal (sane) gamer.

Re:Someone call Jack Thompson (1)

Jeffool (675688) | more than 8 years ago | (#14407993)

Trust me, the last thing I am is pretentious. Well, at least I wasn't before I WAS QUOTED ON SLASHDOT! WHOOO! In your FACE!

Oh, wait, it's Games.Slashdot? Not the front page? Meh, nevermind.

If you even skimmed the article.. (2, Informative)

mwheeler01 (625017) | more than 8 years ago | (#14404050)

If you had even skimmed the article you would have read the last paragraph

Y'know what? Nevermind. I'm already a murderer fifteen times over. My soul is as damned as can be. At this point, if the sacrificing of one life can bring my love back hers, then it's something I've got to do. I'm going right now to kill that fucker.

So the article was about a decision and a debate, external and internal, quite well written I think.

Stories are Interactive (1)

robbway (200983) | more than 8 years ago | (#14404127)

That seemed to surprise a few people, who insisted I had to finish it, to see the ending. Now, instantly I could draw the parallel to books or a movie. If you stop reading a book, that doesn't change what happens in the story.

When you stop reading a book, it does indeed change the story--for the reader. I refer to The Lady or the Tiger. The point of the story was that it forced you into finishing the story, even if you were happy at leaving it unresolved.

I'm happy to see that the blog author "got it." It was sick to desire to bring a dead person back to life by killing these stately giants. He didn't know anything about the giants, but he was willing to slaughter. It was both selfish and unnatural.

Bah (1)

Guspaz (556486) | more than 8 years ago | (#14404509)

Bah, just celebrate Wintereenmas (http://www.wintereenmas.com/ [wintereenmas.com] ) and call it a day.

Re:Bah (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 8 years ago | (#14407642)

"Wintereenmas shall not be commercialized! Buy our Wintereenmas merchandise!"

I had simliar thoughts on 3Kingdoms MUD (1)

Anthony (4077) | more than 8 years ago | (#14404923)

Had a quest where I had to kill some innocents who were standing in between me and my objective. It was also against my alignment (at the time - A neutral priest tends to sway across the line). In the end I got the Quest Points...

for the love of (1)

PaganRitual (551879) | more than 8 years ago | (#14405589)

But was it love I was fighting for, or my own selfish desires I was commiting murder for? It took far too long, but I came to realize it was the latter. And that's not something I was willing to do any longer. Once I laid eyes on the final colossus, I just sat the controller down. And I turned the game off. I still haven't beaten that colossus and I don't plan to.

I hope you didn't pay for that game with money out of your own purse.

Re:for the love of (1)

NBarnes (586109) | more than 8 years ago | (#14407483)

Shades of Mickey Mantle trash-talking Pete Rose there. I'd be offended by your base perpetuation of gamer stereotypes if I weren't finding it authentically funny.

Re:for the love of (1)

Jeffool (675688) | more than 8 years ago | (#14407850)

Yeah... I felt that way too. But in my own defense, he didn't mention the last sentence I wrote: "I'm going right now to kill that fucker." And I did.

Re:for the love of (1)

inphizzible_friend (942173) | more than 8 years ago | (#14407691)

Yep its love. Not only that, but free sex to!! At this point even I'm disgusted with myself

Gads... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14406587)

Seriously, I'm all for exploring the deeper side of gaming. People cried when Aeris died, people scream at the zombies in Resident Evil - there's a side to this hobby that definitely gets less press than it deserves. But if you're thinking of trying to capture this, please keep a few things in mind.

Don't talk in short sentences. I like bacon, for example. They seem disjoint. Don't gloss over your reactions to the game to tell us your conclusions - describe what brought you there. Make bloody sure that your sentences scan - this process is called proofreading and is often employed by many successful writers IRL.

DON'T try to make your piece read like a knockoff of the Death Star scene from Clerks. You'll just end up looking like a 16 year old copycat with more nervous energy than wit.

Re:Gads... (1)

Jeffool (675688) | more than 8 years ago | (#14407857)

Successful writers get paid for what they write, I'd imagine. I do a blog, on blogspot, that sometimes gets twenty readers. Though, I never really noticed that I use short sentences much, and will work to build a better flow in the future. But the Clerks thing? What the hell?

Carnival (1)

Luigi30 (656867) | more than 8 years ago | (#14406736)

Lastday. Virgin 21s. Year of the city - 2005. Carousel begins.

My name is mud (1)

inphizzible_friend (942173) | more than 8 years ago | (#14407662)

Collosi. The REAL poloticians.

AI and moral issues (1)

kisrael (134664) | more than 8 years ago | (#14409848)

If at some point we get an AI that the researcher has to have pangs about turning off/shutting down, in terms of having a unique intelligence , then there's gonna be a good chance that a few years later, we have similar moral issues in games....
Check for New Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?