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New Music Player to Spread Files Wirelessly

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 8 years ago | from the riaa-nightmare-scenarios dept.

Wireless Networking 222

PontifexPrimus writes "A new P2P / media player project could allow mobile music devices to automatically transfer media files from other players running the same software. While there seems to be a certain risk (mislabeling files, creating intentionally corrupt songs) there also seems to be a huge potential to this idea (get on the subway to work and when you arrive there your available music has doubled). Of course, this also is a nightmarish scenario for the RIAA-like organizations, especially since such swapping occurs without active user participation, in a drive-by way."

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No Thanks.. (4, Funny)

Kickboy12 (913888) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417560)

I don't want the thing downloading Backstreet Boys, or even worse... getting Dashboard Confessional from some emo kid.

*shivers* Scary thought.

Re:No Thanks.. (1)

shmlco (594907) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417571)

Agreed. Sounds like a great way to fill up a player with "popular" music you know you don't want.

Re:No Thanks.. (4, Funny)

User 956 (568564) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417580)

or even worse... getting Dashboard Confessional from some emo kid.

Is that what they're calling it? So that's what happened to Katie Holmes' face. [defamer.com]

In that case, you're right. I don't want to be getting dashboard confessional from some emo kid either.

Re:No Thanks.. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14417585)

talk about narrow minded. what music do you listen to? the top 5 on MuchMusic/MTV? yeah thats that i thought...

give me my bright eyes, pantera, black flag, mars volta, tilly and the wall....death cab for cutie,..dredg.

fool.

Re:No Thanks.. (1)

vonFinkelstien (687265) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417624)

80% Classical

15% Folk and Bluegrass

5% Jazz

Re:No Thanks.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14417820)

Judging by your incredibly stupid comment and your choice in music I would guess that you're 15 years old, you wear punk clothing to try and be "unique" and think that you're "giving it to the man". Listening to the crap you just listed doesn't make you any better than anyone that listens to the top 5 on MuchMusic/MTV. I love it when idiots like you think that listening to a certain type of music makes them better than other people. It just clearly shows that you have the mentality of a pre-pubescent teen.

Grow the fuck up.

P.S. Your choice of bands is pretty main stream for young emo kids. Maybe you should just go slit your wrists now.

Re:No Thanks.. (5, Informative)

thelost (808451) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417591)

the idea is to have it work on the basis that it learns your listening habits, what you enjoy and then proactively retrieves music from other push enabled music players on the fly. If you don't listen to the Backstreet boys or music like that it will be very unlikely to pick that it.
Kind of like last.fm but more aggressive.

Re:No Thanks.. (2, Informative)

jack79 (792876) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417594)

From TFA, file jumping will only happen "Based on what you have been listening to in the past and which files you already own". So unless you have a secret Backstreet Boys habit this should be avoided. The concept seems similar to http://www.last.fm/index.php [www.last.fm] which generates reccommendations, neighbours and radio stations based on the tracks you listen to on your PC.

Re:No Thanks.. (1)

User 956 (568564) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417756)

From TFA, file jumping will only happen "Based on what you have been listening to in the past and which files you already own".

Yeah, but we all know how well that type of system has worked in the past. [drunkenblog.com]

Re:No Thanks.. (1)

Tylerious (836357) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417774)

Last.fm? That site that groups Cream and Soft Cell together for crying out loud!

TiVo? (1)

VeganBob (888165) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417688)

Why not program it to have TiVo-like features, so it'd do smart downloading? Or at least you could easily create a "do not download" band list. You're assuming blind downloading by the music player.

double entendre (4, Interesting)

User 956 (568564) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417566)

And by "Spread Files Wirelessly", they mean viruses wirelessly.

wtf? (-1, Offtopic)

zoloto (586738) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417579)

That correlation was so weak, damn you must have some heightened sexual predisposition you made yourself into for that one. ...DAMN!

Re:wtf? (1)

Kijori (897770) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417677)

I wish there was a mod option for "-1: Incomprehensible". I've read this five or six times and I have no idea what it means.

Re:wtf? (0, Flamebait)

zoloto (586738) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417771)

Then I suppose you haven't much more than basic "least common denominator" understanding of english

Re:wtf? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14417817)

Indeed... so because viruses exist for a new file-o-sphere, no one's going to be able to write antivirus protection files? Puhhhhhhtever.

Re:double entendre (2, Funny)

DrIdiot (816113) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417722)

And by viruses, you mean N'SYNC and Good Charlotte albums... right?

Re:double entendre (2, Interesting)

TeacherOfHeroes (892498) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417724)

This could be a really neat way to model how real human viruses spread through casual contact. Create a file that reports back to a central tracking station and watch it go.

If its built into an mp3 phone you could even track its location, since the CDC already wants your cell phone number [slashdot.org] and cell phones are now being used to track you [slashdot.org]

Re:double entendre (1)

silverkniveshotmail. (713965) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417746)

Yeah, there will likely be an exploit here or there, but I imagine that they have already thought of this and that they have designed it in a way to keep it from being extremely vulnerable, I can't imagine them not providing patches to any discovered vulnerabilities either.

Re:double entendre (1)

jsldub (133194) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417798)

that chuck norris webpage is the funniest thing i've seen in a while.

Hopefully (0)

lifejunkie (785838) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417570)

Hopefully it will prompt the user for each full album that could be transfered. Otherwise it's just plain madness.

Eat Me (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14417577)

Eat me

Now all we need is massive disk space (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14417582)

I've been waiting for this for a long time, but it's not really ready until you can fit tera or petabytes on each device. With update-only rsync, eventually everyone would accumulate every piece of music out there, like a disease.

Re:Now all we need is massive disk space (1)

RealBeanDip (26604) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417604)

eventually everyone would accumulate every piece of music out there, like a disease.

I'm thinking if my player suddenly contracted NSYNC or some Backstreet Boys I would have to put it out of its misery.

RIAA, you have just been (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14417587)

pwned. I feel like the laughing Quaker/Patriot on Fark photoshop threads. HA! HA!

(mod negative, freedom troll)

Eastern Standard Tribe (3, Interesting)

DoorFrame (22108) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417589)

This sounds like an element from the plot of Cory Doctrow's Eastern Standard Tribe [craphound.com] where all users of a highway system will be able to access each others music as long as they're on the same road at the same time, a real information superhighway.

if they were ubiquitous (5, Interesting)

victorvodka (597971) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417590)

If these things were widespread and of sufficient density, they could form their own peer-to-peer grid networks capable of sending any sort of information, untraceably. It would be its own internet, the way the internet was first envisioned. Information would finally be completely free. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it Time Warner/RIAA/NSA!

Re:if they were ubiquitous (1)

zoloto (586738) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417616)

This is awesome. This idea... is awesome.
Too bad it will probably only run on a Windows PDA OS, therefor has no proper file attributes to prevent nasties etc. (For me it's just a bad aftertaste to run a Microsoft OS or product...) I like this idea completely. Allowing only specific files such as .doc, .pdf, .txt etc?! This would be awesome if everyone had a pda / device with this kind of software.

I love it! What a vision!

Re:if they were ubiquitous (1)

thelost (808451) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417617)

it's just as feasible to create mesh grids of this puppies so you could download your neighbours nighbours songs as easily as if they were just one hop away, not 5 or 6, and of course like you say they could be used to send any kind of info. The only caveat is who make these machines, and I'm sure that SONY is not going to bring out a push enabled meshp3 player soon; And if big companies shoot down the idea - as they will - the joe public will never find out about it, and the thing that really makes any p2p network fail is lack of users.

Re:if they were ubiquitous (1)

VagaStorm (691999) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417694)

I can't se any problemst implementing this for linux or symbian mobiles. The spreading of the software would probably be a problem, but it is likeley that it will be distibuted at some spot withc will grow when ppl tell their friends or word spread on campus. Sooner or later theese seperated nods will merge, and you have a large network :) So RIAA whanted filesharing off internet, well I gues theyr geting what they paied for :p

Re:if they were ubiquitous (1)

mattwarden (699984) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417646)

Oh don't you worry. The lawmakers would come up with something.

Re:if they were ubiquitous (3, Funny)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417679)

Information would finally be completely free.

And no one would produce anything, because people do actually need to eat.

Do YOU go to work for free?

Re:if they were ubiquitous (3, Insightful)

Blastrogath (579992) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417726)

>And no one would produce anything, because people do actually need to eat.
>
>Do YOU go to work for free?

Yes I do. There are a load of things I do for no monetary reward that others get paid for, the same is probably true for most people. Some people get paid for writing out their opinions in print, for one example.

Music predates copyright by a few thousand years. People didn't need copyright to write or play it before, they don't need it now. Writing and playing music is fun and rewarding in and of itself, and there are plenty of ways that musicians have been financially supported in the past without copyright.

By the logic you put forward nobody would play sports anymore if you took away the professional leagues.

Re:if they were ubiquitous (1)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417748)

Ok...maybe I was over the top with 'no one'. However...people DO still need to eat. And that includes all the other people involved in making music. Bye bye to "sound engineer" or cameraman as a full time job.

Re:if they were ubiquitous (1)

zcat_NZ (267672) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417777)

Bye bye to "sound engineer" or cameraman as a full time job.

And the difference between this and the fate of buggy-whip makers is _what_ ?

Re:if they were ubiquitous (1)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417805)

And the difference between this and the fate of buggy-whip makers is _what_ ?

The new regime (car makers) didn't need buggy whip makers anymore. Hard for a good musician to produce music without a good sopund engineer. And not all good musicians are good sound engineers.

Re:if they were ubiquitous (1)

zcat_NZ (267672) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417838)

If they're doing a valuable job, they'll get paid for it. Have faith in the invisible hand.

If they're just dead wood or hugely overpaid like 99% of the music industry, they're way overdue for a shakeup.

Re:if they were ubiquitous (1)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417850)

If they're doing a valuable job, they'll get paid for it.

By whom? You?

Re:if they were ubiquitous (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14417887)

"Hard for a good musician to produce music without a good sopund engineer."

I'd argue that the person who cannot create good music without a good sound engineer is not a good musician at all.

Re:if they were ubiquitous (1)

lysergic.acid (845423) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417899)

Clearly you have no experience in recording music. These days you can get software and equipment to record out of your basement for $2000-3000 and make it sound better than many of the professional recording studios out there that cost hundreds of dollars an hour. Even mastering can be done for cheap out of a home studio.

And perhaps you don't realize this, but a lot of great literature, music, paintings, etc. have all been done by artists who were never paid for their art. Certain people simply have to write, have to make music, have to paint--it's in their nature. Besides having the wrong motivations, why would anyone give up the right to express themselves creatively to the world just because no one will pay them for it? Are you going to stop seeing that girl you like because no one will pay you to see her? Are you going to stop eating because no one will pay you to eat? Here's a tip, most musicians don't get paid diddley-squat for their music--same as any other art--yet they still manage to feed themselves by holding other jobs.

Re:if they were ubiquitous (1)

Blastrogath (579992) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417813)

I'm not saying there's no truth to that point of veiw at all, but there are alternitive economic models to copyright.

A few examples: Back in the days of Bach and the like large orginisations or rich patrons would commission music, essentialy employing musicians full time for the prestige of doiung so. Many bands even now make more money from their tours than their albums. Donation based systems can work, just look at a lot of webcomics.

Re:if they were ubiquitous (1)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417874)

Donation based systems can work, just look at a lot of webcomics.

How many of those webcomic guys do it full time? How much of a production dept do they need to support? Technology is making it easier to make good music for a lot less money. But not zero money. 'Information will be free(as in beer)' will require a very painful shift in world economics. Far more than getting the latest music track for free on your PDA.
I'm not concerned about the RIAA making money. Screw them. I'm thinking about all the other people involved in making that music/movie. Cameramen, makeup artists, sound engineers, editors.

Who pays them, if no one pays for the product?

Just like nobody produces free webcomics (1)

Julian Morrison (5575) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417799)

http://www.thewebcomiclist.com/latest/ [thewebcomiclist.com] doesn't exist

Yes, some people work for free, because they want something other than money (eg: fame, appreciation, creative satisfaction). So long as they don't ONLY work for free, they still get to eat.

Nightmare my ass! (2, Funny)

bombshelter13 (786671) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417592)

If these become popular it will be a dream come true for the RIAA. Hard, physical proof that someone is a music pirate! "Officer, arrest this man, he's carrying intellectual property theft devices!"

Re:Nightmare my ass! (1)

User 956 (568564) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417621)

Hard, physical proof that someone is a music pirate!

I thought that was the eyepatch, the tricornered hat with the jolly roger on it, and the parrot on the shoulder?

yarr.....

Re:Nightmare my ass! (1)

RichardX (457979) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417670)

Wouldn't that be racial profiling?

Arrr! Ye just be harrassing me 'cuz o' me pegleg! Bet ye wouldn't be treatin' a ninja like this!

Re:Nightmare my ass! (1)

hplasm (576983) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417810)

"Arrr! Ye just be harrassing me 'cuz o' me pegleg! Bet ye wouldn't be treatin' a ninja like this!"

Even this guy..?



http://www.weebl.jolt.co.uk/yarr.htm/ [jolt.co.uk]

Re:Nightmare my ass! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14417683)

Now THAT is funny :)

Re:Nightmare my ass! (2, Insightful)

jrockway (229604) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417638)

> "Officer, arrest this man, he's carrying intellectual property theft devices!"

"Officer, arrest this man, he's carrying a murder weapon."

Oh, you mean it's not illegal to carry something that could be used illegally? Damn the constitution! (Murder weapon in this case is a hammer that "this man" is carrying home from Home Depot to hang a picture on the wall.)

Same stories. (0, Troll)

msid (943658) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417602)

First of all, I don't understand why everybody wants to "hug" his/her mobile phone more and more when they are so harmful. Second, there is no such thing as legal file sharing really. Almost everything is illegal in a file sharing network. Until now they were keeping track of interesting IP and they were tracing the users in order to press charges. Now they will charge you a fine on your next mobile phone bill of every copyrighted piece of data you exchange willingly over the phone. On the other hand, who cares. Everybody is doing it up until now. And everybody is making fun of "getting caught". Until they actually get caught.

Re:Same stories. (1)

zoloto (586738) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417627)

You're way off-topic here. Not mobile phones, PDA's.
You must not have read the article, but that's not surprising here.
and cell phones suck.

Re:Same stories. (1)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417734)

Not mobile phones, PDA's.

Mr. Crackberry and Mr. Sidekick say there's no difference.

Re:Same stories. (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417667)

> First of all, I don't understand why everybody wants to
> "hug" his/her mobile phone more and more when they are so
> harmful.

Do you have a source for this?

> Second, there is no such thing as legal file sharing
> really. Almost everything is illegal in a file sharing
> network.

What's illegal? The network they use? The hardware that's used? Software? The files being shared?

> Now they will charge you a fine on your next mobile phone
> bill of every copyrighted piece of data you exchange
> willingly over the phone.

Fine you or charge you?

cool pranks (4, Funny)

icepick72 (834363) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417607)

certain risk (mislabeling files, creating intentionally corrupt songs)

Same as regular P2P but that's survived and comes in useful.

Drive-by music. Hmmm ... I like it. I will put an MP3 on my player that consists of only my voice yelling at the listener to "WATCH OUT BEHIND YOU". See how many paranoid people I can freak out. People would be doing that walking the street, in their car, on their bicycle, on the transit system. It would be great

This could be a dream for RIAA (0, Troll)

Odin_Tiger (585113) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417613)

This could be a really good thing for the RIAA, though. If functionality were added so that you could browse what songs others had available, and then download them while simultaneously leting the RIAA know you had acquired in a fashion similar to purchasing ring tones with your phone, They could cut out middlemen such as Napster or iTunes for probably 50% of song purchases. Person A downloads a song from Napster, goes to work, then tells all his friends at the office what a great song it is...pretty soon 1/4 of the people in the building have bought the song, and Napster only got a cut on the first sale. This is the kind of thing that's really killing the RIAA; instead of embracing money-making potential in new technology, they panic and sue.

Re:This could be a dream for RIAA (1)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417661)

Just as with current P2P...if I already have it, why should I send money to them?

Interesting ONLY IF (5, Funny)

u16084 (832406) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417614)

Only Useful If Paris Hilton is standing next to you with her Camera Phone....

Re:Interesting ONLY IF (1)

rapidweather (567364) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417701)

Only Useful If Paris Hilton [skins.be] is standing next to you with her Camera Phone....

Sorry, I would not be paying much attention to her Camera Phone.

Re:Interesting ONLY IF (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14417815)

Sorry dude,

Probely she wont have tomuch pictures of herself in a mirrow on that one.. maybe it would a greater idea to download pictures from some chickmagnet instead...... Oh wait, my phone is turned off.. Haha, got you.

Who really thinks this is a great idea? (2, Interesting)

ItMustBeEsoteric (732632) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417620)

Illegal content? Copyright infringement? All "without user participation," but I would say that since people can download from you on P2P apps, without active participation, you could draw a precedent from that to apply to this: having shared, copyrighted music on a device that allows (forces?) others to download it simply by being in your vicinity is clearly a violation.

Of course, the second this moves from simply audio to pictures and/or video, you could wind up with other illegal content (i.e. child porn) on your player, just by walking by someone with a similiar device who so-happens to be a pervert.

Great idea here, people.

Re:Who really thinks this is a great idea? (1)

u16084 (832406) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417628)

I must second that motion.. whats stopping the nsa from "uploading" some "national security" documents then arresting you as an "Enemy Of the US" and hold you with out a trial for 30 years.

Re:Who really thinks this is a great idea? (1)

Have Blue (616) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417676)

This is a perfect example of the all-too-often-ignored principle that just because we CAN do something doesn't mean that we SHOULD.

Not as bad as it may seem. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14417789)

Previously, the courts have erred on the side of caution in these cases. People were able to get off from charges that they downloaded illegal material because it was not possible to prove that /they/ downloaded the material to their computer. The case in question involved certain spy/malware being installed on the computer during the time of the download.

While people are normally held responsible for action commited using their property without their knowledge (e.g. an unsecured gun in a home that is used by a child to kill someone), the courts do not consider it (for now) an act of criminal negligence to have a knowingly unsecured router/PC/phone/PDA, etc.

selective downloading (1)

j1m+5n0w (749199) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417870)

Of course, the second this moves from simply audio to pictures and/or video, you could wind up with other illegal content (i.e. child porn) on your player, just by walking by someone with a similiar device who so-happens to be a pervert.
I think this could be fixed with a proper implementation. Suppose your media player knows what files you like. Perhaps the media player could periodically connect to the Internet and upload your preferences to a recommender system. The recommender system would then compare your preferences to the preferences of the other users and generate a list of files (or, better yet, a list of cryptographic hashes of files) that you have a high probability of liking. Then, when your device talks to another device, it only downloads files that were on your "good" list.

RIAA is on board of Titanic (0, Offtopic)

BadassJesus (939844) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417629)

Their business model is sinking lower and lower every day. All the passive media that means songs or movies will end up this way in this new broadband connected world. What we hear or see we can record, replicate and "share". Only user authenticated interactive media like online gamming may benefit.

Disaster in the making (0, Troll)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417640)

With the Operating systems of Cell phones,Media players,And similar devices getting more complicated every day I personally don't want to have the latest exploit automatically delivered to me,Thank you.

The whole reason I have never gotten bit by bugs even with an unpatched machine is the fact I know what to avoid.I personally wouldn't want the security of any machines that connect to my music player dependant on sally secretary or timmy teenager having common sense (because if you have spent as much time repairing their machines as I have you know they REALLY don't).

strong free speech implications (1, Interesting)

argoff (142580) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417643)

This just proves the point that it all comes down to a battle between copyrights and free speech rights. After all this technology could just as easially be used to dissemate political information. At a fundamental level, there is no inherent difference between free speech content and copyright content.

Re:strong free speech implications (1)

Nugget (7382) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417708)

No, I don't think it proves that point at all.

At a fundamental level, there is no inherent difference between an insightful comment and a total misfire of logical thought, either.

Re:strong free speech implications (1)

argoff (142580) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417743)

No, I don't think it proves that point at all.

At a fundamental level, there is no inherent difference between an insightful comment and a total misfire of logical thought, either.

Try a response that goes something like ...... No, I don't think it proves that point at all Because ...(insert BS here that is sure to be shot down rather than say nothing at all because you don't want to be called on it)

Re:strong free speech implications (1)

Nugget (7382) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417844)

Since your original post does nothing but simply state a point I was comfortable simply responding in kind.

BS (1)

donutello (88309) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417711)

Free speech is the ability to spread your own thoughts and ideas.

Copyright infringement is spreading someone elses against their wishes.

Re:BS (1)

argoff (142580) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417730)

Free speech is the ability to spread your own thoughts and ideas.

Copyright infringement is spreading someone elses against their wishes.

Allright fine. Then please point me to a technology that distinguishes the difference.

Push vs pull (3, Insightful)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417655)

...allows users to actively recommend songs by sending (or "pushing") music to other users in the proximity.

Current P2P is strictly pull. You select what you want, and get it from (wherever). Having random people push random stuff on to my hardware? Not a chance.

Would you allow someone to do this with your PC? Didn't think so. Remember that when you connect your new mp3 player to the USB port.

A potentially good idea, but we all know there is a tiny minority who will screw it up. Badly.

Re:Push vs pull (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14417814)

How about a Wav, MP3, Ogg player with optional P2P?
Selecting titles you want in advance?
Collecting all of Celine Dion?
Pushing your own homemade music?
Viruses are not an issue - Bad music might :-)

Greetings from
Chicken-Shit Coward

How about some kind of 'taste matching'? (1)

zcat_NZ (267672) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417656)

I was going to suggest this thing definately needs some kind of matching software like iRate or pandora, but then I read TFA and see it already does.

Cool. Where can I get one?

Let us not be so narrow-sighted... (1)

Kelvie (822725) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417665)

It says media files, not just music ... which invariably means drive-by porn!

That being said, with all the media fuss over the RIAA suits, I think the creators are TRYING to piss them off.

No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame. (1)

sulli (195030) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417669)

oh wait.

Re:No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame. (1)

bennomatic (691188) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417689)

Yeah, but imagine a beowolf cluster of them!

Great idea -- just like iTunes sharing (1)

posterlogo (943853) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417675)

I think this is a great concept, but the P2P part of it may be throwing too much gasoline on the fire. A similar idea from Apple's iTunes might offer a nice alternative. Currently, it is possible for mac users with iTunes to look at and play music from other people's shared libraries. The songs are not really downloaded to the client computer, but rather stream in full quality. This depends on a constant network connection. In the portable realm, therefore, it may not be so feasable while you are moving around from hotspot to hotspot, but I think it would be neat to share a song or two with other people on the bus or in the cafe or wherever, even if just for a short period of time. I'm not saying iTunes sharing is the only way -- indeed if there were a WiFi sharing option on all sorts and brands of portable music players, something compatible, we'd all be able to dynamically share and experience each other's music. You'd be able to broaden the kinds of music you hear, and I believe this could be legal just like iTunes sharing. The portable networking (device-to-device-to-device) may even work without a wifi hotspot, or even more generally, could spread the range of a hotspot. With enough users, each one being a sort of node, a great dynamic network would be formed. Now I'm just dreaming out loud...

Why just music? (1)

msbsod (574856) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417696)

Why limit this idea to the transfer of music? Why not distribute any information through a chain of WiFi devices and build a whole network? With so many devices already existing it should be possible to build subnets, and hook them up to the Internet. Who cares about 2 cent music articles, other than organizations like the RIAA who see their distribution monopoly threaten? I find the idea of a network independent of any service provider much more attractive.

Let me reiterate.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14417699)


Dear Santa,


Thank you very much for more music sharing
devices. We can now flip the bird to the RIAA
for being naughty and say "$%!# you!" proudly.


Tiny Tim

PDAs and Memory (1)

ziggyzig (944029) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417704)

How much memory do PDAs have now-a-days? I just checked the specs for the Treo 650 [infosyncworld.com] and it said it had 23 MB. That doesn't sound like a lot of space for music files. Any idea on filetypes / memory considerations?

Re:PDAs and Memory (2, Informative)

PDA_Boy (821746) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417763)

To store music on the Treo650, you will need an SD card- you are not yet able to store non-.prc / .pdb files in a PalmOS machine's RAM. The T5 / LifeDrive both have separate storage areas (the T5 as flash-based and the LifeDrive as HDD-based) to which you can copy non-PalmOS files.

A WindowsMobile PDA will let you copy any file to RAM, although, as you have noted, storage capacity tends to be too low to make music storage viable.

Basically, leave the RAM for essential applications, and use an SD card for non-essential applications, music, video etc.

The RIAA... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14417713)

"Of course, this also is a nightmarish scenario for the RIAA-like organizations, especially since such swapping occurs without active user participation, in a drive-by way"

I want one!

HOw about user error? (1)

jurt1235 (834677) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417720)

Suppose this is a success product, a video version comes out, and a not so techsavvy person, lets call her "Paris" puts a video "Live in Paris (2)" in the open section instead of the blocked session.
In short: I think users should have control over what they put on the device, else it ends up full with crap since it just uploads, or you are spreading your own files unintentionally.

Legal use? linux distros? (1)

PjotrP (593817) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417731)

I always liked the whole "yeah but the network has plenty of legals uses as well, think about the linux distros!" argument when anybody wanted to take down any of the p2p networks. But with players like these, that argument seems to get even thinner. "noooo, it has legal uses as well, like yesterday i got the new openbsd song on my media player!"

Sure, there is media that is not copyrighted, but sadly far too little. Too little in the sense that I find it depressing that 99.9% of the creativity of a culture is "owned" by soo few, but also too little in the sense that it makes the above argument next to impossible.

"Your music has doubled!" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14417736)

"...get on the subway to work and when you arrive there your available music has doubled..."
Unfortunately, half of it is in five second clips of random song fragments.

Well to answer the suggested problems (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417739)

There is always a risk when creating a community that some asshole will disrupt it. Should we therefore lock ourselves up in single person cells and never risk getting something we don't want?

So what if some idiots would use this to push mislabelled files. So you get a weird sound file once in a while, this is nothing new happened with napster and that didn't stop it.

Plus there is tiny little difference here. The person pushing the weird file will be closeby. 99.99% of the internet assholes are pussies who would never run the risk of an angry person coming over and pushing their face through a wall.

As for virusses. As long as the software is not written by MS it should be fine. Shouldn't be too hard to write a player that does not suffer from bugger overruns and as far as I know MP3 does not allow system calls to be embedded.

It sounds like a nice idea. I doubt it will take off in all but the hippest places for the same reason that I can rarely find anyone with a PSP or DS or even GBA cabel. Not that many people have this kinda gadget and because nobody has it nobody buys it because nobody has it.

It reminds me of the napster days when you could requests a persons share list. I always checked out what other stuff a person had if I found a rare song I had been looking for. You never know, if you both like the same weird stuff you might like the other stuff he/she has.

The RIAA will do a nutter of course but screw them.

Virusses (1)

jurt1235 (834677) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417792)

Easy to avoid if the OS just is seperated from this application. There are enough base applications which run on multiple OSes without security risks. So I agree, virusses are not a big issue.

And this is just the start of it... (2, Insightful)

TractorBarry (788340) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417747)

This is exactly the sort of thing I dreamed up in an earlier response to an *AA post (too lazy to go and link to it :)

The beauty of this sort of system is that, designed well, you'd be able to program your device to "listen out" for things you're currently interested in (this would rely on files being tagged with a bit more meta data than we get in current IDV3 tags etc.) With some sort of AI algorithm processing the tags you could also optionally allow the "pickup new music" function to take you off into new avenues of sonic exploration (Hmm... think I'll set the "weirdness factor" to 3 today). Hell I never knew how much I liked Bulgarian throat singing until I heard some on a radio station whilst cooking my tea :)

One thing's for sure though you'd soon find more good music than you'd probably have time to listen to - unless in the future you can get paid for being a "music filter" for a third paty (when most manufacturing ia automated new jobs will come into being...) And with digital transmission of the data the days of artificially induced shortages are over (ooh look, limited edition of 100 copies on BLUE VINYL !!!!)

So you make available what you please and passing people pick up what they please from you. Everyone gets to hear more music.

And what of the poor musicians I hear you say. In the future more bands will make more money than they do today from live performances, personal appearances, writing bespoke music for social events etc. etc. In an interconnected world there is now more opportunity for musicians/sound sculptors to both create works and to get paid for it. Admittedly there'll probably be less battery farmed, multi millionaire musicians producing trite pap (a la Britney Crap etc.) but there'll be more musicians earning a living.

Meanwhile the cavemen at the *AA etc. still just simply don't get it and are attempting to keep things going using their 1920s business paradigm.

Ho hum. Bring it on.

just wait (1)

maccalvin5 (455879) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417749)

this is the year the ipod will move away from the dock for downloading files. you want a song? hit up iTMS using the built-in airport card and buy it anywhere there's a wireless signal. then with a little homebrew fun, share with your friends, willy-nilly.

this is going to be a HUGE year for filesharing.

I've thought of something like this (1)

infolib (618234) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417766)

The only problem is that the RIAA will be able to home in on your filesharing - you'll see their agents (all named Smith) in the Subway soon.

I propose some simple method of authorizing users. Maybe you could exchange keys with people by pressing some button while shaking their hands. [pcworld.com] Even with just the people I trust enough to exchange the keys to my mp3s that way I'd be able to build a fairly sizeable collection. Now, moving on to friends of friends etc. I'd have all music in the world within a few years - and the popular stuff within days. That is, if I cared for illegal file sharing.

Who makes these devices? (1)

sharopolis (819353) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417770)

Who has the patents on the rest of the technology? Who controlls cellular bandwidth?
Corporations like Sony, Motorolla, Nokia, Apple, etc etc.
What are they gonna do? make devices that allow people to trade freely without their intervention or are they gonna try and make some money out of this?
Anyone who has the capacity to make something like this on a large scale is not going to let unfettered P2P happen. Mobile players, moblie phones etc are very closed proprietary devices, DRM has got to be eaiser to implement on these and harder to get around than just about anything else.

As long as it has filters ... (1)

NixLuver (693391) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417788)

Perhaps you can restrict xfer by license, by format, by genre, otherwise you'd end up with a lot of crap you don't want or stuff that would be illegal; which no-one wants, right?

But imagine what a cool marketing tool it would be for a group to be able flag a song for distribution - that would allow free and unlimited distribution of a song - an mp3 that includes, say, a URL to buy the album, etc. Just think how fast something like that would get around. And of course, that would certainly disturb the RIAA, since I (as a music producer) don't need the current music industry for distribution or marketing at all...

Isnt' that the RIAA's worst nightmare?

Great.. Daily cleanup of my mp3 player. (1)

Thatto (258697) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417791)

Have you listened to all of the schlock out there? Well you will if the device doesn't ask permission before transferring other users shares. If these things get sufficiently popular, how long will it be before unsigned bands start a guerrilla advertising campaign by riding trains at rush hour? I'll pass.

As for me, I find good music by using my social network as a filter, from sources I trust. Even semi-legal outlets like allofmp3.com allow me to discover music on the cheap.

Oi, that's my idea ;o) (1)

stunt_penguin (906223) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417802)

I had this idea 2 years ago during a brainstorming session for an Innovation and Concept module at University, it's like they're spying on meeee

Anyway, although I chose another idea from that brainstorming session to follow through with and fully develop, my inital few ideas on this concept centered on you setting up a list of albums or tracks that you are interested in, then when you get onto a bus or train where there are similar devices, music would transfer automatically from one person's player to the other, a bit like a virus would hop from one human being to another. I called it Personal Peer to Peer ( I call the copyright on that name BTW, it's here in B&W(!))

There was also the possibility of tagging extra albums or tracks to recommend to anyone downloading tracks from your player. Say for example you like, um- Snow Patrol and you had their last album on your player. You'd be able to recommend their first two (relatively unknown but pretty great) albums to someone downloading Final Straw from your player, and they may choose to take you up on your recommendation.

The ways in which this type of sharing could change the model of music sharing and distribution (again!) are enormous and how this idea plays out is dependant on how it's harnessed, if it catches on at all.

In the first scenario, no-one pays for the music that is bounced from person to person, and everyone's happy except the music industry. What happens then? Offering music for file swapping like this is illegal copyright infringement, but in this case it's out there on the street where everyone can see you. Imagine cops taking subway rides and arresting people swapping copyrighted material because they can see them offering illegal music downloads on the mini P2P network in the carriage. It's not that different than them arresting someone for selling bootleg CDs on the street, which happens often enough. It probably wouldnt happen, but then the all poweful RIAA have sued 12 year old girls. Just think about it anyway.

In the second scenario, instead of distributing full free copies of the a whole album off your player for free, what if the files that are sent have a limited (say 2 weeks?) initial licence that can be made a full licence by actually *paying* for & unlocking the album. This way, you can try a recommended album on your player for free for a while by having it sent on a Personal P2P network, and if you like it, buy the damn thing. This distribution method appeals to me because it puts the person back into personal recommendations ( I call copyright on that as well :op ) and means you'll probably strike up conversations with complete strangers about music, which is always a joy on a long journey.

If PP2P takes off, then it'll probably be the illegal kind, but then we've seen this kind of thing happen on t'inernet in the last 5 years, only to see commerical services pop up.

I can imagine the scene in the future- people meeting in music speakeasys to swap files & socialise while the cops/feds drive around sniffing out their puny network signals. Stranger things have happened.

Prior art (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14417803)

I can already share music wirelessly... it's called a SPEAKER :)

You can do something like this already (1)

Julian Morrison (5575) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417830)

...just run an unsecured FTP server that allows anonymous uploads. You put up your favourite music files, and pretty soon you'll have a very nice collection of illegal porn, warez and viruses.

no Digg! (1)

qualico (731143) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417863)

Already read this on digg.

opens up a whole new arena for spammers (4, Interesting)

mrycar (578010) | more than 8 years ago | (#14417867)

Make Millions of dollars sharing information. Call 1-800-sir-spama to get into this multi-level advertising oppostunity.

Do you want to get paid to attend parties, movies, and rock concerts? Maybe you are into exercise? How about making money on your way to work? If you sign up today, those hours of congested traffic and annoying public transportation experience start making you money.

All you need to do is download our "music" everyday from our service onto your AD-pod and it will do the rest. It will share all of the its content with anyone who passes by, making you money in return.

Our technology works by attaching ads to snippets of popular music and sharing those ads with those around you. Our ads give full credit to the artists and records label and get our messgaes out to the masses.

Sign up today
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