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Switching to Windows, Not as Easy as You Think

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 8 years ago | from the turnabout-is-fair-play dept.

803

rchapman writes "Mad Penguin writer Simon Gerber has published an amusing review of Windows XP as seen from a Linux users point of view. He really makes you feel like you are trying to use Windows for the first time after exclusively using Linux. The article covers everything from the hideous installer and its lack of partitioning/formatting capabilities to the utter wasteland that is the Windows desktop, devoid of useful applications and everything in between. A fun read."

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803 comments

keep living in your dreamworld (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426403)

gah.

Re:keep living in your dreamworld (1)

Adolf Hitroll (562418) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426562)

Of course, what the reviewer hated most was that he had to take his lego-assstorm out of his ass and give up his pagan homosexuality in order to embrace the genuinely virile way of life that Gott intended him to follow.

Old News / Rip off (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426416)

I've read at least 5 different versions of such "reviews" over the last 5 years.

No partitioning? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426419)

Bullshit. It IS possible to partition and format the hard disk in the installer. Is this so old or is it simply inaccurate?

RTFA (4, Informative)

donscarletti (569232) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426462)

Just because a summary says something doesn't mean that the article says the same thing. The article acknowledges the presence of a partition tool but bemoans the limited features of the tool.

Re:RTFA (4, Informative)

Southpaw018 (793465) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426502)

One of the failures of the Linux community is recognizing the fact that most users don't want and don't care about such a tool. If you want full Linux-installer-style partition and format control over a Windows install, it's there, and it's not that hard to find.

For most users, a partition is something that's between them and the guy in the next cubicle. They don't want to know what a computer partition is, they don't care, and they don't even want to see it - not even "Do you want the computer to partition for you?"
Forcing such a thing on them is annoying at best, and for some especially inexperienced computer users, it can actually be scary. One of the things I had to get used to on the job was two of my users (out of 35) who would call me at the slightest hiccup because they simply didn't want to deal with anything at all out of the ordinary. That's my job, they'd say.

Re:RTFA (1)

donscarletti (569232) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426706)

The powerful partition tools are there to allow easy operability with windows. When windows is no longer the main concern in peoples minds as they switch to linux these tools will be hidden and streamline. Until that day (if it ever comes) we will be stuck with the situation where any flaws in windows operability is judged by average users to be a detriment to linux but not vice versa. By the way, many systems such as Ubuntu and Mandrake IIRC have an automatic option just like you describe, I've used it once or twice actually but never in a duel boot situation.

Re:RTFA (1)

Some guy named Chris (9720) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426725)

You've only got 35 users?

Denial: Not just a river in Egypt (3, Insightful)

xtal (49134) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426421)

Windows, properly set up and configured, is NOT the BSOD nightmare it used to be. It's entrenched and will be a very hard slog to fight against. For those wanting to change, there's a super-polished, UNIX user friendly, open-source running contender in Apple's OS X.

How many of you own Apple notebooks? How many have blown away OS X to put a PPC linux distro on there?

The fact is that Windows isn't that bad, and Linux is going to do a whole lot better on the desktop if we want to make inroads there. Linux is already taking over places where the user experience is negligible or tightly controlled, for example, in the embedded, RTOS, and industrial worlds.

Fun article, but Microsoft moves forward, too. If Vista is a marketing success, then MS will dominate for a long time on the x86 desktop.

nice Apple question. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426499)

Parent wrote
How many of you own Apple notebooks? How many have blown away OS X to put a PPC linux distro on there? The fact is that Windows isn't that bad,


Nice question, Mr Windows defender. How many have blown away *any* version of MacOS and installed PPC Windows on the same machine? I bet thousands of times more PPC machines went from MacOX->Linux than MacOX->Windows.


But since you mention Apple, I think there is a serious point that could be made here. It's not too hard to find people who have been primarily Mac users most of their careers. I'd love to see a study of whether they prefer Ubuntu/Fedora vs XP or Debian/RHEL vs Win2003Server.

Re:Denial: Not just a river in Egypt (0, Troll)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426500)

How many of you own Apple notebooks? How many have blown away OS X to put a PPC linux distro on there?

I know of 5 of them as well as the one Apple toilet seat laptop I have with ubuntu on it.

Why? OSX is a horrible PITA on that older hardware. you have to do a song and dance fight to get it installed (10.3 at least is that way) Oh and cince the one I bought did not come with a copy of any OS trying to get a copy of os9 that it it still has the license to have on it is like pulling teeth.

So I gave up and put ubuntu on it and discovered that linux on a laptop is absolutely a dream when you have high end laptop hardware like Apple.

Dell, HP and the other laptops are low grade crap compared to an Apple Laptop when it comes to running linux on them. I was amazed at the lack of any fight with hardware.

Re:Denial: Not just a river in Egypt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426698)

Dell, HP and the other laptops are low grade crap compared to an Apple Laptop when it comes to running linux on them. I was amazed at the lack of any fight with hardware.

The Linux Thinkpad community is rather large with mailing lists and wikis (http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki [thinkwiki.org] ).

Re:Denial: Not just a river in Egypt (1, Interesting)

jcaldwel (935913) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426525)

If Vista is a marketing success, then MS will dominate for a long time on the x86 desktop.

Seems like circular reasoning to me. Any operating system which is a marketing success should dominate the market.

Re:Denial: Not just a river in Egypt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426709)

buh? That's not circular reasoning... that's stating the bleeding obvious...

Re:Denial: Not just a river in Egypt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426526)

I'm posting this from a PowerBook with Debian on it. Why do you ask?

PS: yes, I tried MacOS X and I dislike it very much.

Re:Denial: Not just a river in Egypt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426572)

Well, bully for you, Mr Irrelevant Statistical Blip. Do you want a medal?

Re:Denial: Not just a river in Egypt (0)

WhiteWolf666 (145211) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426533)

You obviously don't support Windows systems for laymen.

In every instance that I've replaced someone's Windows-only system with a dual-boot Windows/Linux install, they've thanked me.

My sister has a new(ish) HP Laptop. It's 3 months old.

All the software on it is administered by her law school. No unauthorized software, automatically updated anti-virus and anti-spyware. I've peaked around at it a few times, and everything seemed to be in order.

When travelling in Europe last month, I watched her system randomly, WITHOUT ANY CAUSE WHATSOEVER, blue screen and reboot. After the first reboot, it would blue screen->reboot as soon as the starting windows XP logo came up.

This is with everything in perfect order, all updates installed, using Firefox to browse the web. She's going to have the laptop reformated at the school's IT department. This is the second time since she bought it. The first time, we suspected some kind of hardware failure, but both the school and HP have run diagnostics on it.

Similar experiences have happened to my neighbors, and my friends. I would be absolutely *shocked* if something like this happened to my linux desktops, or my OS X laptop.

And laypeople have no problem with Linux. My parents use it. My grandparents use it. My neighbors have a dual boot, mainly used in Linux.

Not having to maintain your System makes up for a great deal of the aggreviation of learning a new desktop environment.

Re:Denial: Not just a river in Egypt (3, Insightful)

nicklott (533496) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426635)

You must be doing something aggravating to the OS then. I've used XP basically since it came out, and post SP1, the only BSODs I have seen have been due to a) serious hardware failure (on a Dell laptop), b) Spyware and c) me pulling a PCI card out while it was still on.

I would vote for b) (or possibly a) as it's an HP laptop) given the symptoms you describe.

I would not be shocked if that happened on a linux system. Well, I would be shocked if the screen went blue, but not if it stopped responding. I've seen centos systems both panic and just freeze due to bad ram and simply an old (non-DMA) HD.

Re:Denial: Not just a river in Egypt (1)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426723)

I had a thunderbird 1.4ghz which did similar.

All diagnostics came out clean but it was still randomly unstable.

I removed and resat the HSF with artic silver and checked all airflow was ok - this didn't rectify the problem.
I modified the cooling fans to draw from below (it was a desktop machine sat tucked away on its side) still suffering.

I underclocked it to 1.33 and it was rock stable from that day forward (its only just been replaced a couple of months ago).

btw, Linux booted fine under it when Windows was crashing.

Best windows review ever! (1)

octopus72 (936841) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426622)

With more articles like this, we could neglect impact of Microsoft advertising machine (aka FUD spreaders).
I would also add one fact here:
If you have non-standard IDE controller or SATA disk, you MUST use ancient technology called "floppy disk" to install even the latest Windows XP (SP2) version!

Re:Denial: Not just a river in Egypt (1)

capicu (880524) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426699)

Oh. My. God.

Out come all the sarcastically impaired failed linux users! Look at them all, it's actually kinda beautiful if you think about it, this lovely display they put on for us all!

Take your fucking Linux (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426423)

And shove it up your butt

Reminds me of another article (4, Informative)

kestasjk (933987) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426427)

http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/05/18/20 33216&from=rss [newsforge.com] Not sure if the author of the new one got the idea from this.

Re:Reminds me of another article (1)

kestasjk (933987) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426486)

Oops, didn't notice the 'Disclaimer: Kudos to NewsForge for the idea, and Microsoft for the inspiration.' at the bottom, looks like it is after all.

Re:Reminds me of another article (2, Informative)

Atuin the Great (766999) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426503)

reading the TFA's disclaimer:
Disclaimer: Kudos to NewsForge(http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=0 5/05/18/2033216 [newsforge.com] ) for the idea, and Microsoft for the inspiration. I also declare that all events described in this piece are factually correct, they really, honestly happened. Just not necessarily all at the same time, on the same computer.

I'll go out on a limb and say 'most likely' ;-)

Flawed. (3, Interesting)

Lostie (772712) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426428)

How about doing a review from the perspective of someone who has never used a computer before - then lets see which one is easier to use (hint: the answer will be Windows XP by a massive margin).

This "review" is flawed in so many ways it's not even funny - of COURSE a UNIX nerd is going to hate Windows, and vice versa. In fact it's even worse than the various Microsoft "independant" TCO studies, because at least they try to hide their bias.

Re:Flawed. (1)

j0e_average (611151) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426471)

How about doing a review from the perspective of someone who has never used a computer before - then lets see which one is easier to use (hint: the answer will be Windows XP by a massive margin).

Why not throw Mac/OSX into the mix as well?

I think once you remove the fanboism from all sides, you'll find that there's no perfect solution -- each has room for improvement.

Re:Flawed. (1)

Decaff (42676) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426504)

How about doing a review from the perspective of someone who has never used a computer before - then lets see which one is easier to use (hint: the answer will be Windows XP by a massive margin).

No. I set up Linux workstations in a company where here are often novice users. They have no difficulty using Linux. Why should they? A modern Linux desktop and office applications work in pretty much the same way as a Windows desktop - apart from the lack of regular virus warnings and the reduced ability to play games (in our company, we consider these to be good things).

Re:Flawed. (1)

Flaming Babies (904475) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426557)

No. I set up Linux workstations in a company where here are often novice users. They have no difficulty using Linux. Why should they?

Key statement: I set up Linux workstations
Let your novice users try to set up and use both and see which is more successful.

Re:Flawed. (4, Insightful)

Decaff (42676) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426606)

Key statement: I set up Linux workstations
  Let your novice users try to set up and use both and see which is more successful.


Answer: Linux. The Ubuntu install is far simpler than Windows, and was the first install of any OS on PC hardware I have ever seen that needed no prompting or additional drivers to deal with hardware.

Give a beginner a Windows XP CD and an Ubuntu CD and I have no doubts they would find Ubuntu easier to install in most cases.

Re:Flawed. (1)

hattig (47930) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426549)

Windows is a PITA to install, compared to many Linux distributions.

However most people get Windows pre-installed, so it isn't an issue.

A computer newbie would probably find a decent Linux desktop as easy or difficult to use as Windows however. But there is a lot more help available for Windows, from books to online. There are probably Windows Computing Made Easy type magazines too.

Macs are the other option. I think that Mac OS X would beat both the above in terms of ease of use for the newbie.

Linux does have a fair distance to go, but in many areas it is already ahead, just that other areas need action. Good simple desktops that allow the user to learn new features as they use it, and provide advanced options to advanced users. Non-cluttered interfaces. Dare I say it, but a Managed Filesystem so the user doesn't have to worry about files, naming files, accessing files, renaming files. I've noticed with newbies that file management can confuse them, leading to mess.

I'm sure that there are hundreds of other things that can be done to make Linux desktops (KDE, Gnome) into a user-friendly environment that beats Windows in all areas for your average computer user.

Re:Flawed. (5, Insightful)

WhiteWolf666 (145211) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426617)

How about doing a review from the perspective of someone who has never used a computer before - then lets see which one is easier to use (hint: the answer will be Windows XP by a massive margin).

Does this include the install process, or are you comparing pre-installed XP versus DIY Linux?

If a novice was forced to install both, I'd bet $100 that they'd get Linux installed properly first. A Linux install comes with most necessary drivers/software that you'll need. A novice Windows user would _never_ find the drivers needed for even an OEM system, like a Sony or HP, where all the drivers are centralized on one site, let alone searching out the drivers from each manufacturer. Linux installs are much easier than XP installs.

Usage? Are you talking about Gentoo versus XP? I'd suggest pre-installed SuSE versus pre-installed XP.

SuSE? Comes with manuals, both electronic and dead tree.
SuSE? Comes with all productivie software, documented in the manuals! Need to write a text document? Look up "word processing" in the SuSE manual. It'll tell you what app to use, show screenshots of the app, and give you a basic rundown of its usage, with pointers to a section in the electronic help system that will give you indepth support and tutorials, as well as e-mail/phone support.

What will XP do if you look up "Word Processing" in that 15 page piece of shit 'starter guide' it comes with?

The only place that XP is at all easier is finding software for it. Linux software is easier to install (RPM are very convienient, klik:// is even easier, and the GUI package managers are drop dead easy, especially Mandriva's URPMI GUI and SuSE's YaST GUI), and easier to remove. Linux systems require no habitual maintenance. You don't have to worry about anti-virus or anti-spyware, and even if you did worry about it, you could simply install the anti-virus software that comes with your distribution, using the distributions own package manager. Don't believe me? SuSE's YaST has "ClamAV", as well as several other anti-virus packages included.

If you can show me Windows software that installs as easily as this: http://amavis-ng.klik.atekon.de/ [atekon.de] , I'll be mighty impressed. And commercial vendors are picking it up, too. For example, klik://nero will install the latest version of Nero Burning Rom on your Linux system, and run it. From one file. One click install->run. No setting, no fuss, no random files draped all over your system.

The only place linux still really lags behind is game avaliablility. Between alsa, SDL, and OpenGL, there's a pretty comprehensive gaming environment on linux, but its taking manufacturers some time to get caught up. iD and Epic are doing pretty well, and Transgaming's doing some neat things with DirectX9 Wine, but gaming on Linux just isn't all that there yet, even though I do manage to keep myself enterained.

It disappoints me that I can't play whatever games I want, but I keep myself busy with Secondlife, EVE Online, World of Warcraft, Doom 3, the Unreal series, Civilization IV, and various other distractions.

Re:Flawed. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426649)

How about doing a review from the perspective of someone who has never used a computer before ...

What experienced computer professional is going to give one flying fuck what a computer newbie thinks? And why should they? Inexperienced computers should get themselves educated.

Re:Flawed. (1)

donscarletti (569232) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426685)

How about doing a review from the perspective of someone who has never used a computer before - then lets see which one is easier to use

Someone who has never used a computer before could never be expected to install any operating system, windows or linux. Such reviews are based on installation and first impressions, the views of a totally new user doesn't mean as much because they do not yet know what to look for to perform their tasks.

(hint: the answer will be Windows XP by a massive margin).

A TOTALLY new user can only be taught on an already set up system. Such a system is one where linux's critisims about being harder to administer become invalid. A totally new user needs only to use key applications to perform common tasks, the games, third party applications, drivers and utilities that windows supposadly becomes better than linux in means nothing to new users. A new user can be taught to click on the "firefox" button on the panel in linux and windows with similar ease to surf the internet. The same can be said of open office, the calculator, an email client and the file manager. However under linux a new user will be less likely to change their settings without knowing, putting them in a situation they cannot recover from without assistance. Under linux a new user will be less likely to inadvertently install spyware or get viruses. And despite windows recent leaps and bounds in stability, Linux still is the more stable system and thus is less likely to behave strangely and confuse the user. Windows is only better than linux for those people with the skills to do basic administration but does not have a deep knowledge of the systems working. For these people windows graphical tools really shine and its ubiquity makes installing hardware easier. These people are very different to new users.

In fact it's even worse than the various Microsoft "independant" TCO studies, because at least they try to hide their bias.

That is completely contrary to my perception of bias. To me, open bias is not bias at all since it gives fair warning to the reader to assess the argument according to this bias. There is nothing more abhorent to me than someone that either doesn't know their bias, or tries to hide it. I detest advertisements that pretend to be useful tips or reviews, I hate letters to the editor written by major political parties, I hate people who claim to be the unbiases middle ground simply because they do not understand the issue. The Linux community acknowledge the fact that they like linux more than anything else the artical is hosted at a place called "madpenguin" it is obvious they like linux so people can realise that their opinion may be a little romanticised at times. However what knowledge can be gained from it without question is the love for linux that the writer has shown by giving up their time to write that satire, that says more about the product than any clever words ever can. The Microsoft studies try to trick readers into interpreting them as pure fact, they are given names to sound prestigious and independant, not to celebrate their loyalty. These studies can impart not unbiased information since they are payed for and when loyalty is bought not inspired it says nothing about the product.

Yawn... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426429)

Windows sux.
Linux roxers.
Derrr...

From BSD to BSOD (2, Funny)

jkrise (535370) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426430)

is neither easy, nor amusing. It's the same from BSOD to BSD.

I want the last 5 minutes of my life back (2, Insightful)

Average_Joe_Sixpack (534373) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426431)

I must say, I am not particularly impressed by Windows XP. To be fair, it has made great strides forward in both stability and usability. Security is improving, but still has a long way to go

How would a newbie to Windows realize great strides in both these areas? Answer me that Jack!

Re:I want the last 5 minutes of my life back (1)

kernelpanicked (882802) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426574)

"Note: Well, there was Windows. There was always Windows. But for comedic effect, the author chooses not to mention the long, heavy years spent using Microsoft Windows for School, University and Work. Now please continue reading, happily oblivious to this devious bit of artistic license."

Wow, right after the first paragraph. Easy to gloss over when your intention is to be a smartass, right jack?

Ellen Fleiss (5, Funny)

Slashdiddly (917720) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426433)

I was typing one day, at work. Just typing, tapping the hours merrily away, and suddenly, with no warning whatsoever, my computer rebooted.

Ellen Fleiss, is it you?

Audience? (5, Insightful)

ilitirit (873234) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426439)

Who is the intended audience? Casual or Power-users? I doubt my Gran would be particularly interested in MBR's and partitions and what not...

Switch to Windows in one easy step (5, Interesting)

kalbzayn (927509) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426440)

All you have to do to switch to Windows is buy a new PC. They all come with it installed out of the box. They also come with all the software most people need either already installed or available to buy at your local Best Buy/Circuit City. I set up my non-tech parents like this over a year ago and have only had to help them twice when my dad accidentally told his firewall not to allow his browser to connect to the internet.

The only support I've had to do to my own computer is fix the bootloader everytime Ubuntu decides to override it and I forget to back it up. Sometimes I think we spend a little too much time nit picking things and tweaking systems to get that extra percent performance increase.

Time for some coffee.

So much innaccuracy... (4, Interesting)

Chicane-UK (455253) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426442)

The article covers everything from the hideous installer and it's lack of partitioning/formatting capabilities to the utter wasteland that is the Windows desktop, devoid of useful applications and everything in between.

Someone has already mentioned the fact that you CAN partition and format drives in the installer, so thats wrong for a start.

And what is Microsoft supposed to do about applications? If it bundled Microsoft Office in with Windows, the anti-competition people would be on their backs the day it hit the shelves. They have no choice but keep the OS relatively free of apps - too many partners they don't want to piss off and the anti-competition people just waiting with multi-million dollar fines! Look at the shit they are having to go through here in Europe with Windows Media Player for example!

Re:So much innaccuracy... (4, Insightful)

Decaff (42676) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426522)

And what is Microsoft supposed to do about applications? If it bundled Microsoft Office in with Windows, the anti-competition people would be on their backs the day it hit the shelves. They have no choice but keep the OS relatively free of apps - too many partners they don't want to piss off and the anti-competition people just waiting with multi-million dollar fines! Look at the shit they are having to go through here in Europe with Windows Media Player for example!

They could do what they used to do years ago - allow the bundling of MS applications and alternatives on the same PC - perhaps as CDs. They you could chose MS Works or Corel Office or Open Office...

Re:So much innaccuracy... (1)

coolcold (805170) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426537)

what about making those apps available for download on their web or put on an extra cd?

Re:So much innaccuracy... (2, Informative)

swillden (191260) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426554)

Someone has already mentioned the fact that you CAN partition and format drives in the installer, so thats wrong for a start.

The summary is inaccurate. From the article:

Anyone who complains about a Linux partitioner obviously hasn't tried installing Windows. Your only choice of file system is FAT32 or NTFS, and although you can create as many partitions as you like, you can only format the one partition - the partition you select for the Windows installation. Obviously, this gives you no chance to create a separate home or boot partition, or even a swap partition. Apparently Windows automatically creates a swap file for you on the main partition. A user with suitable expertise could create a separate partition for the swap file after installation... but this is still an annoyance. Worse, the Windows partitioner hoses your MBR, and installs it's own MBR with no attempt to detect and provide for any other operating systems you may have installed.

And what is Microsoft supposed to do about applications? If it bundled Microsoft Office in with Windows, the anti-competition people would be on their backs the day it hit the shelves.

No one would complain if Microsoft bundled non-Microsoft applications. For example, back in the mid 90s, if Microsoft had cut a deal with Netscape, offering to bundle Netscape Communicator with Windows and paying Netscape $5 per copy, Netscape would have jumped at it, and no one could accuse Microsoft of trying to leverage their OS monopoly to acquire a web browser monopoly

Re:So much innaccuracy... (1)

strider44 (650833) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426567)

Someone has already mentioned the fact that you CAN partition and format drives in the installer, so thats wrong for a start.

Funnily enough, the article mentions it too!

Not Easy?! (1)

mynickwastaken (690966) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426443)

Switching from Linux to Windows is like switching from girlfriend to wife.

Re:Not Easy?! (1)

Flaming Babies (904475) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426453)

I like to keep one of each.

Re:Not Easy?! (1)

Lostie (772712) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426463)

You have to endure 2 hours of nagging from Windows before it fucks you?

Devoid of useful applications (5, Insightful)

norfolkboy (235999) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426445)

"devoid of useful applications"

You are moaning that Windows is by default "devoid of useful applications ".

Of course it is! Remember the fiasco any time Microsoft try bundling anything useful with Windows? It ends up in an anti-trust trial! Of COURSE Microsoft aren't going to bundle anything useful with Windows any more.

I thoguht that was what a Linux user would want? Choice of their own applications, not MS's choice.

Re:Devoid of useful applications (1)

jkrise (535370) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426521)

"Of course it is! Remember the fiasco any time Microsoft try bundling anything useful with Windows? It ends up in an anti-trust trial! Of COURSE Microsoft aren't going to bundle anything useful with Windows any more." Hmmm... here's a list of 'applications' MS could've bundled if it really wantd to improve the OS: 1. A simple nice way to take a 'working' backup of a 'working' system - specially useful considering how often Windows gets hosed. 2. Remove the hideous beast called 'registry'. 3. Remove the ActiveX control thingy - no issues with anti-trust. 4. Remove the media player thingy - same as above. And so on... most problems with Windows occur with existing features, this anti-trust excuse is just a ruse for not providing features we really need.

Re:Devoid of useful applications (1)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426660)

3. Remove the ActiveX control thingy

Why in GODs name would you want to get rid of ActiveX? Do you even know what it is? It has to be one of the greatest things in component reuse in a long time. It's unsecured inclusion into webpages is unfortunate, but not at all its only use.

Re:Devoid of useful applications (5, Insightful)

m50d (797211) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426528)

No, every time MS tries to bundle something of their own, and not include competitors, then we have an anti-trust trial. If MS bundled IE, Netscape and Opera with their OS, equivalent to what most linux distros do, there would be no problems. If they bundled WMP, realplayer and winamp - again equivalent to your typical linux distro - there would be no problems. It's when they try and give you just their product that the problems arise.

Re:Devoid of useful applications (2, Insightful)

jiushao (898575) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426670)

And just imagine how user-friendly that would be. The reviewer would be so very pleased.

Your signature (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426672)

I think you should change your signature to "I have an EASY button" :)

Re:Devoid of useful applications (4, Insightful)

Politburo (640618) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426681)

This is really a silly idea. Not just because of the general idea, but because of the practicalities. If you bundle (let's say) Real, QT and Winamp.. Where's the line? Every shmuck who's written a media player is going to want it bundled. So do you have to include JoeMedia also? What about when you have too many apps bundled and want to take a few out? Those vendors are going to howl to no end. What about quality? What if Real delivers a buggy adware piece of shit to be bundled?

It's never 'equivalent to what Linux does' because there is no Linux corporation that is trying to have everyone use their browser, media player, etc.

Re:Devoid of useful applications (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426692)

IT would be an utter stupidity to do that. You are saying that along with what I have and own, I bundle my neighbor's property too when I sell mine!

Re:Devoid of useful applications (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426705)

You'd actually like to have three different office suites, three different media players, three different browsers, and three different email clients installed from the word "go"? Do you work for Dell or something?

Re:Devoid of useful applications (1)

endy64 (891510) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426542)

They can bundle anything they want AFAIK. The condition would be that as long as you can completely remove it or choose to not have it installed by default it's fair.

I'd be happy with that situation.

Re:Devoid of useful applications (5, Insightful)

sjames (1099) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426555)

Remember the fiasco any time Microsoft try bundling anything useful with Windows? It ends up in an anti-trust trial!

That's because MS doesn't just bundle. They bundle, then weld it to the OS, encase it in lucite so you can't get at it, and surround it with landmines to keep all but the most determined de-installer away.

I like having more apps than I could ever need included in a Linux distro. However, I would object strenuously Xorg and a window manager was fused into the kernel and made intrinsically dependant on firefox. That's the key difference. Any componant of any Linux distro can be replaced at will. When available, the distro will include several alternatives for the same basic functionality.

Linux using Burger King employees rejoice (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426454)

This article is sure to be liked by all 4 Linux users who don't use Windows at work (I guess you work at Burger King). Now you dorks can rejoin normal society by using the OS prefered by 95% of the computer users in the world and hopefully develop skills to get a better job at the same time.

XP is a bit older (5, Interesting)

MancunianMaskMan (701642) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426455)

I had a similar experience, and it cost me days to install XP on a new computer wher Ubuntu installed cleanly. That was about 6 months ago, and the Ubuntu disks had been fresh from my letterbox (fee & all!) whereas my "spare" copy of XP was already a few moons old. So maybe that's why it stymed an old geek like me about SATA drives. Still haven't got Internet going on this "XP" thing, since it can't find network card drivers (not sure I want to). Maybe the M$ release cycle is just uselessly slow for today's hardware market?

Re:XP is a bit older (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426673)

Microsoft isn't responsible for your network card drivers, or any other hardware drivers for that matter unless it was made by microsoft. If your network card was advertised as 'Compatible with Windows XP' then I suppose it should have undergone some testing and certification of the manufacturers drivers. Maybe you got a Linux only network card.

c'mon now (1)

alodien (252865) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426478)

You can patch a kernel but you can't install Windows.... that's pretty sad.

It really isn't all the painful... the only painful part is having to reinstall it every three months!

Of couser it's difficult (3, Insightful)

diegocgteleline.es (653730) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426487)

To start with, you've to install tons of apps that the operative systems don't includes itself. And due to that stupid microsoft rule that existed for years ("installer must be executables delivered by 3rd party apps") I've no way to automate the download and installation of those (yes, I know about msi, I also know MSIs can be slipped in the installation CD. I still find no way of installing AND automatic its update like apt-get update & upgrade does. And LOTS of installers are not using MSI still. Shame on you microsoft, for forcing people to create docens of different, incompatible, buggy, installers)

Riiiight.... (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426488)

FTA:

Worse, the Windows desktop was ugly! I mean, uglier than usual. The local account I'd used before joining the domain had seemed nice enough. That is, except for the blue and green colour scheme, which is too similar to Linspire for my liking.


...

Linspire... formerly Lindows...? I wonder where the resemblance came from?

article moderation (3, Insightful)

naddington (852722) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426489)

I mod this article -1 Troll.

Re:article moderation (1)

SilverspurG (844751) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426576)

Excellent point.

For the sarcasticly impaired. (5, Insightful)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426493)

Before it goes to far out of hand, where the slashdot hidden windows expert points out workarounds for his problems. This is how people write about Linux in Windows Rags. They go by their first impression and give there ratings from a 1 Day Point of View. When you move to a dramatically different system Windows, Mac, Linux/Unix, VMS... You find that things are not easy anymore. You they are no longer logically laid out Nothing works anymore and all your comfort apps are no longer there. You need time to think like the designers of the os, knowing the ls is short for list, or Dir sands for directory, or My Computer allows you view your mounted network drives. If you know only windows Other OS's feel weird and wrong the same if you know only an other OS. I say we should stop with these rags from peoples first impression and go with a better one showing the differences and explaining their strong and week points and not give judgement of what is better.

Re:For the sarcasticly impaired. (2, Insightful)

dollargonzo (519030) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426581)

I think you're completely right, but I also think that the whole point of an article like this is to point out how silly articles that rag on Linux after only having used it for a short period of time are. Irony is your friend.
 

Package install - whats the problem? (1)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426497)

"Once again, you have to download the binaries and install manually, by double-clicking on the install file"

Call me old fashioned, call me Mr-I-Want-To-Avoid-Trojans, but I don't
actually like systems that download binaries AND run them without
prompting you. When MS does something like this everyone jumps up and
down but this guy seems to think it would be a good thing for Linux to
exhibit this sort of behaviour.

Err , no, it isn't.

Re:Package install - whats the problem? (1)

swillden (191260) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426654)

Call me old fashioned, call me Mr-I-Want-To-Avoid-Trojans, but I don't actually like systems that download binaries AND run them without prompting you.

Hehe... You *really* shouldn't use Windows, then. Between ActiveX controls, security holes like the WMF fiasco, Word macros, etc., Windows runs random code more often than any other OS.

When MS does something like this everyone jumps up and down but this guy seems to think it would be a good thing for Linux to exhibit this sort of behaviour.

No, he doesn't. What he wants is something like apt-get that allows you to easily pick an app you want to have installed, then let the tools download, install and configure it for you automatically in a single step. That's completely different from a system choosing to download and run something without the user's permission.

void application space (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426498)

Windows, by default, contains few applications. MSIE and WMP are about all you get that do much out of the box. That is part of the reason that bundling is so important to Microsoft. Have you ever seen a computer at Best Buy that only had a stock version of Windows XP on it? They bundle MS Works for low-end (or WordPerfect), MS Office for high-end. They include 3rd party DVD software (playback, record). Also included are some additonal games.


By default, windows comes with only a few games. Most Linux distos come with far more. By default, windows includes a simple editor (wordpad), but Linux distos include multiple office suites, vi, emacs, joe, and other editors. Does windows include a graphics package like gimp -- NO!. It is a void landscape....

GUI (1)

ilitirit (873234) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426506)

For some reason, I found this bit quite amusing:

From a GUI point of view, it may even edge out over Linux.

Wow. (-1, Flamebait)

schild (713993) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426512)

Great. He doesn't know how to use windows. He must be retarded... ...and now you know how I feel when I hop into Linux. Like Bruce Willis in motherfucking 12 Monkies. Linux is a nightmare for people who are used to windows. A goddamn nightmare. A beast fixed permanently on your face gnawing at the important bits. There's too much going on, too many nonsensical commands, and most of all - too many little buttons that aren't important. And the start menu thing that loads up in most versions of XWindows (etc) is more unorganized than a 1st Graders backpack at the end of a school year. I'm sorry, but..well...Just No. And for any Linux User that doesn't know how to use Windows. You should be ashamed. An ape can use windows. It's made for apes. It's why Linux doesn't have the widespread appeal the /. fanbase wants it to have. Apes can't use it. It's too goddamn complicated. And the original article is just too goddamn stupid. ScuttleWhoever, you should be ashamed of yourself. This article blows.

Ever heard of sarcasm? (4, Insightful)

debest (471937) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426612)

The article was a send-up of all the "trying out Linux" articles that Windows power users have been writing for the past several years. You get to hear what difficulty they have getting used to a different way of doing things, but of course they call if a "problem" instead.

Same here, except in reverse, and with tongue planted firmly in cheek. The article is showing how asinine it is to flame an OS when you don't know what the hell you are doing, and have no experience with it.

You DID notice the "It's funny, laugh!" icon at the top of the /. post?

Re:Wow. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426613)

amen brotha!

Re:Wow. (1)

Azghoul (25786) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426674)

How in the 9 hells did this idiotic diatribe get modded up? "He must be retarded"? Yes, that's insightful.

I'd like to see an ape try to figure out how to use Windows. It'd probably work great for opening up bananas.

Re:Wow. (1)

IO ERROR (128968) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426707)

Well, I can't read the article because the server it's on is currently on fire, but I can say I found the parent quite amusing.

An ape can use windows. It's made for apes. . . . Apes can't use it. It's too goddamn complicated.

I think that just about says it all. But since the parent "ape" mentioned the start menu...

7-Zip, Accessories, Adobe, AVG Free Edition, BitComet, FileZilla, GIMP, Last.fm Player, mIRC, Mozilla Firefox, QuickTime, Real, Rio, Soulseek, Startup, UltraISO, Weathercast, Winamp, WinRAR, X-Chat 2, Adobe Reader 7.0, Google Talk, Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, RealPlayer, Windows Media Player

Accessories, Games, Graphics, Internet, Office, Preferences, System Tools, Help

Now you tell me which is better organized?

Re:Wow. (3, Insightful)

Octorian (14086) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426715)

Have you ever seen the average "start menu" of an average Windows machine? Once I go to "Programs", I get a list that fills the screen (or scrolls on newer versions) of vendor names! Makes it almost impossible to find ANYTHING unless you already know what piece of software you're looking for! The only way to get a usable programs menu in Windows is to completely reorganize it manually.

Firefox? (3, Funny)

Exitar (809068) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426516)

"Whenever I launched Firefox the program would run, but I couldn't type anything into the address bar. The menus were all frozen, too."

Are you saying that no XP user can use Firefox?!?!?
Well, probably I'm writing this post only in my imagination...

Ridiculous (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426529)

It is ridiculous to complain about a lack of apps out of the box. Does anyone remember an antitrust case recently regarding bundling of a certain software package with Windows? It seems Microsoft is damned either way.

Of course it's hard (3, Interesting)

Jarlsberg (643324) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426532)

Of course it's hard to switch operating systems if you've been using one type of OS for a long time and are switching to something completely different.

I remember struggling with the inadequacies of Windows when I had to switch to that OS after Amiga went bust. It was hard and extremely annoying, but eventually I knew enough to administrate both Windows 95 and the Windows servers in the business I worked for then.

I also found Linux hopeless to use and work with the first months after I installed it, but again, business dictated I learn it, so I did. I like Linux more than I like Windows, but it's apples and oranges, really.

A partial alleviation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426536)

For Windows types who want more Linux-style functionality, some friends and I are hacking around a basic sort of window-manager replacement for EXPLORER.EXE (XP only at the moment). Should anyone be interested in this, drop me a line at ed [dot] ropple [at] gmail [dot] com.

Semi-offtopic, but it does relate to one of the article author's bitches about GUI design...

..Windows isn't that bad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426577)

After using Windows XP Home for about 2 years, I finally got sick of it and installed Debian. After 2 months or so of using Debian, I have to say there are things I miss from Windows. It is easier to use, which isn't all too surprising, but it just gets tiring having to edit text files to get sound working or to get Firefox to play videos and wireless networking... don't get me started on that. And say what you will, but I've had a few applications crash on me (which is likely due to a misconfiguration of some sort, but see my ease of use comment above) which made the system run weird after which I would reboot. I'd like to think of myself as a proficient computer user and Linux can be a huge pain in the ass sometimes.

And as a side note, putting all zealotry aside, I'd put windows and Linux (Debian at least...) on about the same level in terms of a normal desktop machine... Which pretty much both get their asses handed to them by Apple with OS X (which I've used on a regular basis in the past). OS X has a pretty interface, is easy to use, has all the big commercial applications that I'd want to use, and I've only ever had problems when using Microsoft products while using it.

And yes, I did RTFA and I know my post is somewhat off topic, but I'm getting tired of people acting like Linux is the best thing for all purposes. As a mostly casual computer user that uses his computer mainly as an entertainment device... let's just say there could be some improvements.

Useful applications (3, Insightful)

squoozer (730327) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426578)

The section about it being devoid of useful applications makes my blood boil. Windows is an operating system which allows you to run applications. It is not necessarly something that has to come shipped with a million and one applications. Perhaps we have become complacent because every Linux distro comes shipped with a ton of applications. It would be simple enough to make a Linux distribution that has a similar number of default installed applications as Windows.

The other problem with this statement is the way everyone cries foul when Microsoft default installs an app with Windows and then complains that a Windows default install doesn't have any applications. Make up your mind! You can't have it both ways.

Re:Useful applications (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426664)

A Linux distro that doesn't come with a gazillion apps would - in my view - be a definite improvement. On the one side it solves the massive bloat problem with most popular distros and on the other hand it solves the problem of novices having to decide whether they want an application installed when they have no clue as to its purpose (names are less than helpful).

Windows users comments (2, Insightful)

KwKSilver (857599) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426601)

You guys seem to be devoid of a sense of humor. You like to dish it out, but you can't take it. Are you so bitter because you are slaves? Inquiring minds want to know.

Give it up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426607)

The debate between Linux and Windows is silly.

I like Microsoft because the stuff just works and I don't have to think about it. Everything has a unified interface for the most part and even if I don't know exactly where something like the hardware manager is, chances are I'll be able to find it with a few clicks...4 clicks as the article states (or you can right-click on MyComp and click Manage...2 clicks).

Now if I didn't know about lspci...how do I find out? Read the documentation? Newsgroup search? Sure can't find it just by clicking around the OS.

The point is, we all know Linux is god and Windows is the devil. Enough is enough. If you want an OS and software that just works, which 90% of the real end users want, then Microsoft/Windows is perfect. If you want an OS and software that is much more configurable and "free" and you're willing to spend a lot more time figuring it out, Linux is perfect.

I use both OSs, Windows for all my family's PCs, and Linux for my web server and other miscellaneous things. I don't have any problems with Windows at all. Never have to reinstall, never have BSOD, never slows down. Then again, I maintain them well...and no, I don't spend hours a day maintaining them. I also spend time maintaining my Linux box. What happens if you don't maintain either OS? Guess what, they both start crapping out.

Enough already.

Re:Give it up (1)

Admiral Ag (829695) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426683)

Surely you jest. Windows is a nightmare for ordinary users (I don't mean /. readers... I mean real people). Just works my ass. My parents and all their friends have Windows PCs (no, they wouldn't listen) and when I am staying I get a constant flow of help requests, reports of strange errors, and various arcane system messages. Since I don't use Windows at all, it often takes me a while to work out just what is going on since the system messages appear to have been written by someone who lacked the normal facility for human communication. My favorite was my uncle's machine that simply stopped working and refused to start unless he reinstalled and downloaded some massive update (he had dialup) to stop it failing again. On the other hand, my wife, who hates "technical" things and who in addition emits ethereal gadget-wrecking energies, has not managed to crash or damage OS X in over four years of heavy use - hell, she even insisted on installing it herself (out of pique). Computers for regular folks should be like that, not MS's mess.

rofl (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426614)

wasted time reading this nonsense, pff

Windows/dos more difficult than linux for me (1)

icywolf (721319) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426625)

Last semester I had a course about dos/windows (was called introduction to the computer world). I almost failed the course (I passed it only because the teacher was nice enough to understand and let me pass) because it was all about batch files, dos command and how to configure windows gui. I never used windows so I found it really difficult to finding a documentation that isn't as good as man pages. Windows/dos may be as difficult if not more for a linux user than it is for a windows user to use linux. When you are used to the power and flexibility of linux (or any *nix) it is so hard to understand that you can't just use loop as you are used to (in my case the fact that I can program in asm is what saved me because I understood goto in dos) Just as an example here is one question I had: What is the space taken by a directory on a floppy? (because I'm used to so many filesystem I just couldn't remember how fat16 worked...)

thanks guys.. (1)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426630)

coral cache these things already.. i won't actually "get" this story until the /. flood dies down and the server comes back up.

As of now the link is dead. =/

I did it. Strange expirience. (1)

kirk.so (944348) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426652)

I did the "convert" recently. Here's the ( true ) story: I became involved in computers in 1977, when a friend of my dad gave him the "SDK-85" which was intels 8085 SBC development-kit at that time. I soldered it all together and had "a computer" - whatever that was - at the age of 13 ( note, that i am german, so at the age of 13, hardware manuals where not *that* easy on me ;-). I moved to the US in 1980, getting in contact with the infamous Apple ][ ( I just *had* to write it that way ;-), which got me *really* started. Went back to Germany 1981, got myself a Sharp MZ80K ( yes, at that time, being in Germany ment 3 years behind in IT-technology ... ). After an Apple-][ clone in 1982, a PC-clone, amiga 2000 and atari-ST quickly followed. My first contact with UNIX was 1984 at my university, were I went for computer science. Good Hooked (TM) immediately. Not, that UNIX only got a high-level language compiler+editor+utils in the base system by default, if also got shell-level prgrammability built-in. A revolution to me. I became a Unix-addict ever since, never looked at other things. ( Bot even VMS, which was quite popular - for good reasons - during my "high time" ). I've been a "professional" since 1989, going through various UNIX-dialects, starting my own company in 1994 on HyperSPARC and Solaris. Went quite good. Been a consultant since 2000, fairly successful since then. I have never been biased towards Microsoft, since I *never* got in touch with their software products ever since. Remotely DOS ( Turbo-Pascal ) for one single project during my school/student time. I knew of course, what windows was all about, read a lot, saw some in private space with the guys i hung out with, but really never touched it. Now, this is 2006. Last year ( we all recall 2005 ... ), my girlfriend "claimed" my old notebook for her personal use ( online-shops, ebay, ... you probably know what i mean ). At that time, i had my first day using ( installing ) windows on *any* machine ( Compaq M300 ), and at the very next day, i was "hijacked" by my dad, configuring windows XP on his new Acer Centrino Laptop. Following My Path(TM) to computers, it obviously went weird. With the Acer Laptop, any Idiot could get the machine up and running in literally no time. Microsoft keeps the promise there. The machine came preinstalled with some version of Win XP ( don't ask - i don't recall ), but finishing the install and customizing it, as automatic and/or easy. With the M300, which got Win2000 - which it apperantly was desinged for - it was a bit trickier. No problem either, since HP ( ex-compaq ) has a good website on these "legacy hardware". At that point, Windows was installed on both machines, all ( yes, all - i found visiting MS-sites numerous times puzzeling ) patches were installed. For reasons not to be explained, i have a fairly strict setup .wrt. firewalling, in order to get to my machines. Windows - out of the box - was unable to cope with "some parts" of my network. That was the point, were the adventure started. To cut a long story short, i gained the impression, that windows was in *DEEP* *TROUBLE*, once you took it beyond the stuff, you could do with the GUI configuration. Second, once you learned some "mystic trick" from some Win-Guru, you were mostly safe. However, here are my $0.02 of admin-"issues", i've found in windows: 1. no way of doing "tail -f " essential for admins. 2. No way of hand-crafted scripting through boot-up ( No /etc/init.d/ whatsoever ) 3. No GUI display redirection. Your GUI config sucks ? start an xterm remotely, go watch /var/log/messages et al. 4. although i have found *excellent* documentation on microsoft.com, much of it is hidden behind MS-isms - stick to "standard naming of standard problems" here. Conclusion: MS - stick to standards. No real news here. Unix-addictsP: read the docs first - some is good, some is crap. just my $0.02

Re:I did it. Strange expirience. (1)

Kortec (449574) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426720)

For the love of god, man, throw in the occational \n!

Oh great.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14426655)

I thought I was early, but you slashdotted it as I got to the second page. That ALWAYS happens.

All humor and hate aside. (1)

KaeloDest (220375) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426677)

The title says it all. I make 100% of my living away from the Wintel platform, and I am surprised at how much it still sucks. I am a man and I believe in the 'throw money at it' style of problem solving, and how the market leader (dominator?) avoids fixing their OS which is the primary place to run the rest of their SW is ...Hella funny.
          straight out of the box it is a goat after six hours of install and patching to get the OS and office to the point where the goat won't eat every last scrap of your life ( and send all of your data to some undisclosed IP in saipeng - or wherever) It is a goat when you try to run a non MS app. ( Games aside)
                  I think the real question is if this goat came out tomorrow would you, could you give this to your wife, wour mother or your sister.

Don't blow sunshine up a goat's ass it is still a goat.

The Windows installation process (1)

Tim C (15259) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426689)

XP was released a good couple of years ago; of course modern Linux distros have prettier installs, they've had that time to improve them. I remember installing Slackware 3 from floppies, or the debian install I did about 5 years ago; completely text-based. I expect that Vista's installer will be rather prettier and more user-friendly than XP's one.

But so what? 90%+ of users will never see it. They buy their PC from big ODMs like Dell or Compaq and Windows comes preinstalled. If for whatever reason they need to reinstall it, they'll use the recovery CD that everyone seems to ship these days.

Sure, people like me will buy OEM copies of the latest Windows OS the next time we upgrade and it makes sense to do so, but we are very very much in the minority.

Playing Devil's advocate for a moment, perhaps the reason so much effort has been expended by each distro on their installers is because they don't come preinstalled, aren't likely to in any great numbers for a long time yet, and so they *must* have a slick, easy to use installer?

And here we have something learned (1)

portwojc (201398) | more than 8 years ago | (#14426703)


When doing anything like this or ANY task you must always "empty your cup".

http://home.inreach.com/golanty/emptycup.htm [inreach.com]

Otherwise like this person you will not learn anything.
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