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Landing the Internship or Full-Time Job

samzenpus posted more than 8 years ago | from the wear-a-tie dept.

Books 147

fires_of_heaven writes "Faced with some technical site interviews, I decided to rummage the web and came across a blog titled Landing The Job. I found the advice on the blog far more useful than the other random tidbits I found, so I emailed its author a quick note of thanks. The next day I found Landing the Internship or Full-Time Job at my doorstep. Normally, I don't bother with career books, but this title is written by people that have recently landed an awesome job at companies like Google and EA Games rather than a hiring manager or recruiter. It even includes the resumes they used to "Land The Job." Read the rest of Paul's review.

The book starts out with a foreword by an IBM Executive and then covers 10 chapters which I comment on individually below. Each chapter is followed by a profile from either an intern or new hire at a fortune 50 company. The profiles include a Q&A and the resume of the individual. I found them to be practical and honest. For example, Ben Lewis who is profiled as an Xbox developer said that he sometimes feels that he can't make a difference at Microsoft.

As a busy computer science student, I can really appreciate how the contents are written. Each chapter has a "Bare Minimum To Do" list with suggestions on how much time each item should take. They also include "Common Mistakes" sections. I especially used the to-do list for the company research chapter.

Another observation I should share is that everything is by example. When cover letters are discussed, there are two example letters--when rejecting an offer is discussed there are example emails. There are even example dialogs for behavioral interviews and for salary negotiation. I think most career books endlessly rant on about methods and rules. Landing the Job seems to be more centered in reality.

The only complaint I have is that there are a few minor grammatical errors. Overall, I think this book is going to be a classic. I haven't had all my site interviews yet, but I know it will help me land my future job.

Chapter 10. HR Interviews and Salary Negotiation
In my opinion, this chapter should be first because it is the best one. It starts off by talking about why recruiters act the way they do. Then it covers salary negotiation which includes a sample dialog between a student with an offer and a manager. I used the "Offer Comparison" section and am sure I will use again. It walks through how to evaluate the worth of an offer step-by-step. It even has a sample offer letter that it walks through as an example.

Chapter 1. Building Unmatched Credentials
If you are like me you often skip the first chapter of books. I didn't read this chapter at first because it talks about how to get experience while you are in college before you are looking for a job. Since I am already looking for a job, it doesn't really apply to me. After looking over it again though, I think it has really good advice. For instance, it recommends that spending endless hours to increase your GPA by a tenth of a point is not as important as finding personal projects or interests in your field.

Chapter 2. Crafting a Successful Resume
This chapter walks through writing a resume from a brainstorm to text and pdf versions. I didn't follow the entire process because I already had a resume, but the examples really helped. I also used the resumes from the profiled new hires and interns at the end of each chapter for ideas.

Chapter 3. Writing a Strong Cover Letter
I didn't have a cover letter prior to reading this. This is one of my favorite chapters because it is a short and sweet guide to getting together a nice cover letter. It includes two sample cover letters written by a mechanical engineer and a computer scientist. It also explains when to use a cover letter. For example, it suggests that a cover letter on-top of a resume can be mailed to any company address--say their customer service department--generating job leads outside of typical HR channels.

Chapter 4. Researching an Organization
I used this chapter less than the others, but it does answer some vital questions--what you need to find out and where to find it. It covers research with the internet, at company career sites, and at libraries. It has a profile of an IBM new hire at the end explaining how company research helped him.

Chapter 5. Secrets of Applying Online
This chapter is amazing. I didn't know how to put together a text resume properly until I read this chapter. I didn't know that many online forms accept unicode 2.0 not ascii so you can add bullets, underlines, and other characters to text resumes. The end has a profile from an Intel new hire and how he got his job by applying online.

Chapter 6. Mastering Career Fairs
This chapter wasn't that much use to me since I've been to a lot of career fairs. However, I agree with all the advice which is basically to know what you are going to highlight from your resume, how to act calm and confident in front of a recruiter, and to pay attention to who is attending a fair. It also cites references of where to find career fairs.

Chapter 7. Learning the Art of Interviewing
This chapter covers interviewing in general and topics that are not specific to behavioral or technical interviews. I read this chapter twice and I think I'm going to read it again before my next site interview. It covers how not to be nervous, getting safety offers, phone interviews, dinner interviews, and what you should try to emphasis about yourself during an interview (as well as what not to say). The end profiles a PhD student deciding between Google, Amazon, and Microsoft.

Chapter 8. Behavioral Interviews
Although I don't often do behavioral interviews and I don't think they are that big of a deal, I found this chapter useful. It explains why employers like behavioral interviews so much (in a nut shell they are assume future behavior will reflect past behavior). It also has an example behavioral interview and example questions--they are hard ones too.

Chapter 9. Technical Interviews
It is clear that the author has had some serious technical interviews. This chapter covers brain teasers to quality assurance questions to hard-core programming questions. It has a huge section on example questions and solutions (which takes up about a 4th of the book). It covers how to write good pseudo code, how to handle the situation when you haven't a clue what the answer is, and even technical questions for non-computer majors like civil engineering and mechanical engineering.

This is an excellent book for any major in college."


You can purchase Landing the Internship or Full Time Job During College from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

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147 comments

any books for 33 year olds? (4, Funny)

jaygatsby27 (894445) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429766)

im looking. any good books for people in mid-career network admin positions?

Re:any books for 33 year olds? (3, Informative)

Quints (944470) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429978)

I can say that, without a doubt, the best job hunting book I ever read is "What Color Is Your Parachute". Anyone looking for a job should have a copy of that book. I've seen it work through firsthand experience and would recommend it to anyone.

Good luck with your job hunt!

-Q

Eat Me (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14429769)

Eat me

Re:Eat Me (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14429838)

If you taste anything like your mother, I'll pass.

Huh? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14429780)

written by people that have recently landed an awesome job at companies like Google and EA Games...

Okay, an awesome job at Google, I can see that, but at EA? Um...

Re:Huh? (4, Funny)

secolactico (519805) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430399)

Okay, an awesome job at Google, I can see that, but at EA? Um...

I dunno... maybe the job they got was wielding the whip instead of getting whipped. I guess it might be fun, for example, working at HR in a large company.

Imagine stopping by a cubicle and saying, "Hey, Joe, drop by my office at the end of the day, will you?". Poor Joe will start sweating and might very well be close to tears when 5pm arrives even if all you wanted was to invite him to join the company's softball team.

Fun fun fun.

Trolls land this job (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14429788)

Here [blogger.com] is your chance to test a new law [com.com]

Interesting (0, Troll)

110010001000 (697113) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429793)

After a little bit of Googling I found out that the "reviewer" actually works at publishers of the authors book! I'm sure the book just "arrived at his doorstep" - he probably has hundreds of copies sitting in his warehouse.

Re:Interesting (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14429956)

do you have a link to backup your claim? I did a few searches but didn't find any evidence

Re:Interesting (1)

slashrogue (775436) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430027)

Weird. Cause it's such a weak review. I mean it's a positive review, but the writing is really uninteresting. You'd think they could manufacture something better if that is indeed the case (and it's not just a case of some random people with the same name).

Can you back that up? (5, Insightful)

sweatyboatman (457800) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430043)

I'm willing to believe that you're right. But clearly, you're better at googling than I am. Might you point us to a link or two that supports your statement.

Slashdot: Ads for Nerds. Stuff that's paid for.

YHBT (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14430128)

Nice troll - short and to the point.

Before modding this troll +5, it would be worth it to check his journal. The guy's a /. flamer and this post fits the profile perfectly.

Go fine someplace else to whine.

Re:Interesting (2, Informative)

XMilkProject (935232) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430136)

That seems pretty unlikely since the publisher is IUniverse, a self-publishing company. In otherwords, the author of the book simply paid this company to print it for him. They are in no way affiliated with the author, or the marketing/sales of his book, nor do they care. They are simply a company with a printing press.

Great Jobs at EA? (5, Insightful)

puppetman (131489) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429797)

"this title is written by people that have recently landed an awesome job at companies like Google and EA Games"??

I thought the only thing a job at EA was good for was giving you a bleeding ulcer within 5 years...

Re:Great Jobs at EA? (1)

Dante Shamest (813622) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429857)

I thought the only thing a job at EA was good for was giving you a bleeding ulcer within 5 years...

Yet people still work there.

And btw, non sequiturs are not automatically funny.

Re:Great Jobs at EA? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14429902)

And btw, non sequiturs are not automatically funny.

Neither are ulcers!

Re:Great Jobs at EA? (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 8 years ago | (#14431339)

So? People work at Walmart and McDonalds too.

Being someone that has worked for a studio that was acquired by EA, I would recommend anyone trying to get into the industry to avoid them and instead seek out defectors. They aren't too hard to find since the best talent always quickly flees EA assimilation.

Chances are, your favorite games were created by them anyways...

Re:Great Jobs at EA? -- Not That Bad. (1)

nevek (196925) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429989)

I have been employed by EA Canada for almost a year now. I went through a "crunch period" and I've worked many late nights.

I do not agree in any way with the "Spouse of EA Employee" Letter that I read even before I got my job.

I worked hard to get this job, and EA gave me an opportunity that I might not have recieved from other tech companies; Now I have a long way I can go; and many career paths. Aswell as training from EA University.

While EA may have a bad reputation from the accounts of a few angry spouses; I love it here.

To get back to the book; remembering my application process I believe that this book would have been a great guideline; especially for anyone who is interested in the tech field.

Re:Great Jobs at EA? -- Not That Bad. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14430150)

How's the Kool-Aid?

Re:Great Jobs at EA? -- Not That Bad. (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 8 years ago | (#14431337)

I do not agree in any way with the "Spouse of EA Employee" Letter that I read even before I got my job.

That's fine, but does your wife?

Re:Great Jobs at EA? (0, Redundant)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430054)

You missed his point. Someone getting a *typical* position at EA games is dead within 3 months and has a moth stuffed down their throat.

Re:Great Jobs at EA? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14430691)

Wow... that's just so wrong. Do you believe everything you've read "on teh interwebz"?

I've been at EA for over 7 years... it's a great place to be. Hard work - I've never had a death march, and the pay is good.

Re:Great Jobs at EA? (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 8 years ago | (#14431354)

Never a death march?

Who are you tyring to kid?

What are you? The librarian.

We had a musclebound librarian who liked to call himself "Conan the librarian"...

Re:Great Jobs at EA? (3, Interesting)

creimer (824291) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430373)

I quit Atari after six years. I didn't want to sacrifice my personal life to the video game gods. During my last three years there, I started going to school part time to learn programming and picked up some certifications (A+, Network+, MS W2K). Five months ago I got a job working on the IBM Help Desk. I'm a lot happier now working only 40 hours a week for the same amount of money that I was making at Atari working 80 hours week for months on end. I'm finishing up school this semester to get my associate degree and complete the Microsoft Certified System Administrator (MSCA) certification.

"like Google and EA Games" (5, Informative)

Theodusian (300658) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429803)

companies like Google and EA Games
Google, as I understand, is a generally nice place to work. But isn't EA generally regarded as a bad employer that mistreats employees? See this LJ entry. [livejournal.com]

Re:"like Google and EA Games" (1)

rylin (688457) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429969)

Maybe that holds true for EA in the US, but I've had nothing but good experiences with people from EA Europe.
A couple of years ago, I was working for a big online gaming network, and got a few invitations to press events from EA.
Fast forward a bit and I ended up monkeying at an internet café, hosting such events along with the phenomenal EA crew - security/operations people, PR people, developers etc.

Were they just putting on a show? I don't think so; I managed to get the operations guy for Battlefield: Vietnam somewhat high on snus [wikipedia.com], had a great beer (or two) with some of the devs behind Battle for Middle-Earth etc.
In my oppinion, the EA Europe people are great - but then again, I can't really deny the ruckus that EA Spouse stirred up.

Re:"like Google and EA Games" (4, Interesting)

BVis (267028) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430226)

I might be talking nonsense, but IMHO the reason the EA Europe people may have at least seemed more sane is because most European countries actually give a shit about how the employees of a large corporation get treated. For example, if someone in Europe was told "You need to work 14 hours a day, six days a week (or whatever long hours EA Spouse was talking about) until further notice, and no, we're not paying overtime" that person would quickly introduce you to several uses for four-letter words you might have been unfamiliar with, and refuse to do so. Employment law would also back them up and prevent the company from firing them for refusing. Whereas, over here in the U$A where the government is of the companies, for the companies and by the companies, said employee would nearly immediately be sacked without notice or reason, and without any recourse, since more than likely they would be an "at-will" employee, subject to termination at any time for any reason, or no reason.
 
Exhausted employees on the verge of a psychotic break don't produce well. The Europeans have realized this.

Re:"like Google and EA Games" (1)

Breakfast Pants (323698) | more than 8 years ago | (#14431010)

If that is so true then how come upstart companies don't emerge in the US and overtake the companies that make employees into "exhausted employees on the verge of a psychotic break don't produce well." Perhaps you are wrong entirely--italy for example has in the past mad maximum 6 hour days. Why? Because they were fighting high unemployeement.

First Anonymous Off-topic Post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14429821)

George Bush DOES NOT Suck

This is my social experiment. If being totally off-topic and saying he DOES suck gets a +5, http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=173414&cid =14428339 [slashdot.org] then this one should get a -5 because it says he does NOT suck.

Come on all you lefties with mod points, prove me right!

Re:First Anonymous Off-topic Post (-1, Offtopic)

w.p.richardson (218394) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429998)

you are annoying me... that knock at your door is the fbi, sucka. prepare for some jailtime!

Re:First Anonymous Off-topic Post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14430690)

Come on all you lefties with mod points, prove me right!

Instead of proving you right, I think I'll prove you left!

Books, eh (3, Insightful)

rwaliany (798184) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429832)

I wouldn't recommend wasting your money on books. I've received offers from Google, Microsoft (ew), etc... The secret is being passionate about a project that you craeted or helped make. You need to be able to explain the struggles and challenges that you've faced with the projects you have worked on. If you have no experience in the field, I suggest you start a project for fun. Just write a list of qualities you would want for someone you are hiring, then make sure your resume addresses it. Otherwise, I would focus on programming tricks and questions. TopCoder or ACM like questions are useful for being able to do well quick and easily in an interview type situation.

Next book is coming soon... (4, Funny)

bigtallmofo (695287) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429842)

The author is currently working on his next book, "How Not to Get Fired for Reading Slashdot All Day".

Re:Next book is coming soon... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14430108)

That book ("How Not to Get Fired for Reading Slashdot All Day") would be an excellent resource for many of the people on this site.

Re:Next book is coming soon... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14430220)

I could probably write a few chapter in "How Not to Get Fired for Reading Slashdot All Day".

Re:Next book is coming soon... (0, Troll)

Kesch (943326) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430132)

I must know his secrets. I tried to stop. Really I did. I honestly tried to stop.

I went out, I sought help, but I kept coming back.

I even saw an option for Slashdot Anonymous (Coward), but when I tired using it, instead of getting support, I was laughed at and ridiculed.

Some days, it got so bad that I would browse at -1.

Eventually, my employer shut off web access. But it just go worse. I even tried learning Modemese so I could use old dial up numbers to get Slashdot over the phone.

If it turns out that the book thread gets modded +5 funny, I will have to KILL* you. People's lives are on the line here. This is not a joke.

*(I am currently being fed /. through an intravenous RSS feed so I cannot go far. However, I will use all my mod points to destroy your posts and I will forward all my spam to you.)

Re:Next book is coming soon... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14430336)

I don't know about you... but I only do about 15 minutes of good hard work a day. And I just got promoted.

Re:Next book is coming soon... (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430542)

The key to being a successful employee while reading Slashdot all day is to make sure your productivity (i.e., yes, doing actual W-O-R-K) is significantly high to make everyone else look like slackers. When it come time to roll some heads, all the "slackers" will be first in line to go never mind how much Slashdot you read.

Great review breakdown, some pointers (4, Insightful)

dada21 (163177) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429863)

This is a great review breakdown, concise and to the point. I think slashdot should have a "Tip" button for good articles.

Some points from a guy with absolutely no experience in internship, but as someone who has performed mentorship programs, which are an old fashioned internship to learn a trade:

1. Offer the company you are interviewing the sense that you will be valuable in your position. Remember, in any market exchange, the manufacturer has to offer the consumer sonething for their money. You are manufacturing labor, the company is consuming it -- they are YOUR customer.

2. Understand that BIGGER is not always BETTER. Trying to get in with Microsoft, Google and those guys is a huge task, but if you're one small fish in a very big pond, is there a likelihood that you'll get far? Consider talking with smaller companies -- even much smaller companies. The most successful friends I know are ones who "interned" with small companies and then struck out to start their own: stock brokers, accountants and even retail store owners that all worked in much smaller corporations.

3. Time preference is key. The reviewer here points to that -- chasing after the 1/10th of a point of GPA doesn't translate into time well spent. The old adage that time is money is not really true actually -- MONEY is TIME. Make sure the time you're going to spend with this company translates to earning potential in the future. Don't be a lemming and don't always follow the masses, do proper research in finding out what the real benefits will be.

4. Search for the disgruntled. Use Google and other search engines to find out what made previous employees and interns mad about the company/ies you're talking to. Be aware of the shortcomings of the company, and even use it in your negotiations (although don't be specific, of course). When I lost a profitable business this year due to inept partners, it really hurt my short term ability to bring on new "interns." They point to the lost company (which had my name in big letters on the letterhead) and I know that I am in a decreased position of bargaining. Don't take advantage of the information in such an obvious way, but use it to your benefit. Companies with a sour public record for a given reason will likely be looking for people to help them not have another sour situation. I wonder if Sony is a good place to intern at.

Re:Great review breakdown, some pointers (1)

GoodOmens (904827) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430021)

2. Understand that BIGGER is not always BETTER. Trying to get in with Microsoft, Google and those guys is a huge task, but if you're one small fish in a very big pond, is there a likelihood that you'll get far? Consider talking with smaller companies -- even much smaller companies. The most successful friends I know are ones who "interned" with small companies and then struck out to start their own: stock brokers, accountants and even retail store owners that all worked in much smaller corporations.
I disagree. I think working for a large company has many benifits early in a career where esentially you have no experience. They usually have the capabilites to train you if you show the desire.

While you are correct the likely hood of working from a lowly jr level coder to a ceo in a company like microsoft is next to null, getting the experience from a large company then moving to a much smaller comapny will increase those chances. However you do gamble with small companies. Its almost like playing with stock. You could get lucky and get in on the ground floor of the next apple or you could be stuck with a company that promises to go somewhere and never does ...

Re:Great review breakdown, some pointers (1)

dada21 (163177) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430040)

You're right -- I didn't mean to infer to STICK with companies. Put yourself in a mentorship position so that you can strike out on your own and run your own business. Even in my worst years of entrepreneurship, I learned more about business than I would have earning "average pay for average work."

Good reply, I appreciate the insight.

Re:Great review breakdown, some pointers (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430954)

Not everyone wants to run their own buisness. Given the choice between that and a menial minimum wage job, I'd pick minimum wage- better hours and lower stress. So I think I'd change your advice to "Put yourself in a position to advance your goals". Wether those are ownership, early retirement, or just a 9-5 job where money isn't a major worry.

Re:Great review breakdown, some pointers (1, Insightful)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430070)

chasing after the 1/10th of a point of GPA doesn't translate into time well spent.
See mom! I'm not lazy!

I'm efficient.

OTOH, that's a fairly stupid thing to say. The type of person who goes and talks to their professor or spends an extra day per test studying to get the extra 1/10th of a GPA point, is exactly the type of person who will analyze a problem into the ground.

Whatever issues they've got going on that drive them to be a perfectionist can be well utilized in most any business environment.

I don't see why we applaud that type of advice when it comes to grades, but heap scorn upon it when it comes to software development.

Re:Great review breakdown, some pointers (2, Insightful)

bdcrazy (817679) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430198)

My sister, who works for a small software firm had a client comment to her how she was so estatic when they spent the whole day and finally found where 2 pennies were missing. Thats what a perfectionist does.

So spending 8+ hours @ x amount of dollars to find 2 missing pennies is worth the effort? The statement of not spending a lot of time going for an additional 1/10th of point towards your gpa may not be a good statement, but the point behind it may be important.

GPA 1.9->2.0? Probably a good idea to work for it. GPA 3.6->3.7? May not be the best time spent. Spend that time interning, volunteering, interviewing or playing a sport might actually be better for you.

Re:Great review breakdown, some pointers (1)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430493)

My point is that your sister is exactly the type of person I'd want working for me when a million dollars go missing.

Accounting/lawyering is something of a special case, because it is usually worth it for a company to have a small army of perfectionist accountants/lawyers racking up hours, than to have the SEC or IRS arrive and really fuck up their whole year.

Still, my original case was software developement, where the first 90% is easy and the second 90% is hard.

It might not be worth it to the software company, to go chasing after the 1% of code with bugs in it, but I bet the bank or air traffic controller will sure wish you did.

So please, if you're going to respond, respond to the rather narrow situation I'm talking about. Changing the subject does not change the fact that in software development /. hates it when companies release software that is 'good enough' instead of 'as good as we can make it'

Re:Great review breakdown, some pointers (1)

drsquare (530038) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430650)

If someone spends thousands looking for a few pence, then they'd probably spend billions looking for a missing million.

Re:Great review breakdown, some pointers (1)

bdcrazy (817679) | more than 8 years ago | (#14431080)

Didn't mean to take it off topic, but i was illustrating my point. In the end, it all comes down to a cost/risk/bendifit analysis here in the real world. In the case of banks/air traffic, the risk would require you to spend money to find more of the obscure problems. Most other things wouldn't in my opinion.

If a million dollars go missing, spending a fair amount to find it would be worth it. Spending a large amount of money to find/fix a software problem that only doesn't have a large effect on your software is also less than beneficial. If people will still buy it with faults, like almost all software, what is the benefit? It is all a matter of scale. Sure i'd prefer better software, but most people don't know any better or won't pay for better software.

Re:Great review breakdown, some pointers (1)

alder (31602) | more than 8 years ago | (#14431107)

So spending 8+ hours @ x amount of dollars to find 2 missing pennies is worth the effort?

Might be not - in this isolated case. But what if she had discovered a crack in the system where this time only 2 pennies were lost? What if next time 2 millions will go though the very same crack? When it'll be better to spend her time searching for an answer for the money lost?

You can also look at this issue from another angle: while searching for 2 pennies (and "wasting" all that time) she dug though and understood so much of the inner working of the system that she's already above the level she used to be before the search has started. Was that time well spent or is it still worthless?

Excuse me for stating obvious, but there are shades of gray between black and white, and while a hunt for a perfect solution probably more often then not leads to a time wasteland, there are other aspects of it that, I think, should not be readily dismissed.

Re:Great review breakdown, some pointers (2, Interesting)

psu_whammy (940612) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430397)

The point is that someone with a 4.0 GPA will have difficulty getting hired due to lack of directly applicable experience, and someone with a 3.0 GPA who's had a co-op/internship with a major technology company will find it much easier.

For every 4.0 studious, analytical student out there who fits well into the work world, there's a 4.0 GPA "professional student" who doesn't have the soft skills to fit into corporate culture.

Re:Great review breakdown, some pointers (2, Interesting)

Anthony Liguori (820979) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430500)

I don't see why we applaud that type of advice when it comes to grades, but heap scorn upon it when it comes to software development.

It really, really, depends here. GPA is widely accepted to not be a good indicator of corporate success (forget about exceptional cases, I'm talking about the average case).

It's somewhat irresponsible to say that GPA doesn't matter (because it does), but it OP's point, I think, is that sometimes one's time can be better spent pursuing other things instead of focusing on getting the highest possible GPA (which I do believe is true).

Re:Great review breakdown, some pointers (2, Interesting)

Sloppy (14984) | more than 8 years ago | (#14431173)

The type of person who goes and talks to their professor or spends an extra day per test studying to get the extra 1/10th of a GPA point, is exactly the type of person who will analyze a problem into the ground.
But look at it from the employer's point of view: how do you know what they did to get that extra 1/10? Did the student go to a lot of extra trouble, or were the tests just easy? Damn, a fluctuation of .1 in GPA can just be a factor of the weather or traffic on the day before a test. You don't have any idea, just a number.

Think about the last time you chose to hire anyone for anything. (Even if you're not an "employer", you have probably hired a mechanic, plumber, doctor, lawyer, whatever.) Did you ever even slightly care what their grades were? It probably came down to 33% references, 34% presentation, and 33% price. Ok, I just pulled those fractions out of my ass, but the point is, their GPA probably isn't even in the top 20 things that you cared about. I bet you didn't even ask.

Good source? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14429878)

I'm not so sure that the book is necessarily a must-read for those looking to get an internship. From the author's blog, it looks like it's simply an eclectic collection of "profiles" from soon-to-be-graduates that are in the market for an internship or full-time job. Heck, I could've written this book too. In fact, anyone with sufficient interviewing experience (which isn't hard to come by if you're going through recruiting in your senior year of college) can give the same advice. The book is just a collection of these experiences, re-hashed and aggregated into print form. Oh well, if you really want to check it out you can see it here too: Landing the Internship or Full-Time Job During College [amazon.com].

Noddy Advice (2, Insightful)

Ronald Dumsfeld (723277) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429882)

This is Noddy stuff, if you're leaving college or university and can't get hold of good sample letters you might need to buy this book. I had a halfway competent careers officer in my school and this book doesn't sound much better. I think I can also safely assume that the bullshit it is suggested you peddle to get your first job isn't going to work beyond that, and a lot of people who read Slashdot are beyond that somehwat awkward phase in career development.

Re:Noddy Advice (1)

dr_dank (472072) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430448)

I had a halfway competent careers officer in my school and this book doesn't sound much better.

Are these the same people who think objective statements on resumes are a good idea? Why state the obvious and waste ink?

getting an internship/coop isnt hard (3, Insightful)

tont0r (868535) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429914)

Getting my coop(now fulltime job) was the best thing I ever did in college. When i discovered how easy it was, i wanted to get my friends jobs, so i would go with them to speak to the person in charge there and make it so my friends were comfortable with her so they would go back on their own. and you know what? the people that went back to her on their own were the ones who got the internships, and the ones who didnt really bother with it too much didnt get it. but if you are in a university, take advantage of the internship/coop program. especially in CS/CE because everyone knows the amount of experience you have can make or break you in future jobs. lots of people are afraid because they dont have experience in what jobs are available. to be honest, i knew NOTHING about this job when i first started (other than i knew how to program java well), but getting the job is about selling yourself. if you can get them to understand that you may not know the material now, but you can learn it, thats all they care about. they will teach you what you need to know.

Re:getting an internship/coop isnt hard (2, Interesting)

HardCase (14757) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430222)

I heartily second that, except with correct capitalization and punctuation. Five years ago, I started as an intern and started the Monday after graduation with a full time job. Besides doing actual engineering work (at my company, interns fill actual engineering job reqs), that year counted towards corporate benefits - 401K and stock vesting, vacation time accrual and the like.

I got the intern job because I paid attention to what was going on around me. I overheard a friend of a friend say that he knew a VP at the company, so I asked him to drop a resume on the VP's desk. I had an interview and an internship offer the next week.

Maybe that's another lesson - don't be afraid to use whatever "connection" comes up. Your abilities will carry the day, but you've gotta get your foot in the door.

-h-

Lack of interest (1)

Dareth (47614) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430482)

I work in the IT field in a retail business. I tried to recruit interns, paid interns, from the local university. I was suprised by the lack of response. Students these days do not appear to be interested in working while going to school.

Re:Lack of interest (1)

drsquare (530038) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430683)

Students generally get jobs like behind bars or stacking shelves. You're not going to get an IT job with no qualifications anyway, especially not part time.

Re:Lack of interest (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#14431008)

School is harder these days. CS and CompE degrees have as many course hours in them at some schools to take 5 years instead of 4. If money isn't tight, why add to the pressure and time it takes to get out? I know back in school I worked the absolute minimum I needed to for pocket money. And I don't regret it a bit, it allowed me to enjoy school without being stressed for time.

Of course, I had enough cash to be able to do that and not take massive loans. If thats your alternative, working becomes a better idea. I'd still suggest co-ops or summer internships though, where you work and go to school alternate semesters, so you don't crack under the stress.

Be street smart, not book smart (5, Informative)

ezpei (461814) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429922)

Here's how you get any job or internship: know someone at the employer who thinks highly of you.

Anecdotally, I'd say at least 80% of hires happen that way. You want to work at Company X? Get to know some people there first, either online or at their local hangout or whatever. I know it sounds like a depressing concession to nepotism, but people ultimately want to work with people they know they can stand to have around.

And if you don't have the social skills for meeting people you want to work with, you're probably going to blow the interview anyway.

Re:Be street smart, not book smart (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14430106)

agreed, if you don't have an "in" you're probably screwed. Even for many of the job postings on sites like monster.com etc. Many of these are posted because corporate policy dictates that everybody be given an equal chance where in reality the only resume which will win it is the person the job was made for.

That's life.

Why is this on Slashdot? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14429930)

Someone must be mistaken! this is slashdot. Around here, people BITCH about not having a good job -- they don't actually go out and find them. Seriously people, do your homework before posting an article like this around here.

EA Games? Good job? (0, Redundant)

Whatsisname (891214) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429941)

Is landing a job at a company thats notorious for shafting it's employees really a "hot" job?

Re:EA Games? Good job? (1)

Kevin Stevens (227724) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430332)

For a new college grad, it is still a good job. You will get to work on cool projects, get great experience, and have potential to get big bonuses. Young people are not as sensitive to working long hours as long as it does not cut into their social life- If you don't have a family, there is not much reason to get home before 8:00. Your worst case scenario is that you can't hack it and after a year or two under your belt you look for a new job. If I saw an applicant from EA, I would at least know that they can work hard when needed.

I worked under similar conditions at my first job. I eventually ended up hating it, but mostly because I was underpaid. After two years of hearing management say that the big bonus payments were coming "next year," I jumped ship. My subsequent and current company is a walk in the park compared to those days, even though by most people's standards it is still pretty demanding.

It is not 1999, do not underestimate the desperation of college students.

Re:EA Games? Good job? (1)

drsquare (530038) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430701)

If you don't have a family, there is not much reason to get home before 8:00.

And if you have a family, there's all the more reason to work as late as possible.

Re:EA Games? Good job? (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#14431038)

Life is a damn good reason to leve before 8. Life is short. Enjoy it. If your employer wants you to work long hours to make him rich, tell him to go fuck himself. There is no reason to do that kind of work as an employee, its the whole reason we had the labor movement at the turn of the century. Putting in those hours won't make you rich or advance your career, it'll make you look back in 5 or 10 years and wonder where the hell your life went.

Re:EA Games? Good job? (1)

Kevin Stevens (227724) | more than 8 years ago | (#14431327)

I may be somewhat unique in this respect, but my social life on a weeknight does not begin until at least 8. Most days when I get home around 6 I just kind of sit around playing video games or reading a book, or maybe muster up the motivation to go to the gym. I am at the 5 year mark, and don't really regret anything (yet). I may not be as good as Madden as I could be, or be as in shape as I could be, but I don't feel that any of my interests are in any way impacted. I am also of the opinion that most people who are "busy" all the time aren't, and that "busy" people always find time to do the things they want to.

EA? Awesome? (1)

xiphoris (839465) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429948)

I wouldn't call landing a spot with EA the most [livejournal.com] awesome [nytimes.com] job [com.com].

How many companies do you call 'awesome' that have workers suing their employer?

Re:EA? Awesome? (1)

peterpi (585134) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430186)

Most of them? Every big company will have disgruntled employees, it's just the law of numbers.

(But yes, EA are naughty naughty bad people)

my take on landing a job (5, Funny)

flipmack (886723) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429992)

I wrote this article years ago for junebug.com, now a defunct website.

How to Land a Job in Corporate America

Nowadays, recent college graduates have two options to consider after graduation: go to graduate school, or join the work force. For the interests of the captivated audience reading this article, I won't bother discussing graduate school (but if you're interested in grad school, I can forward you my other article, "What to do after being denied admission into your favorite grad school").

The problem with finding a job is that most recent college grads don't have the experience that most employers want, and on the other hand, most recent college grads want a job that will best compensate them monetarily. Obviously, most entry-level jobs pay meager wages and won't cater to a person's decadent lifestyle (that is, if you want to continue eating out every night and hitting the bars and clubs once a week). What's not obvious is that if you want a good job, you have to start out at the bottom and work your way to the top. Nobody is ever going to offer a position for an entry-level CEO. So, reality has to dictate the fact that success and wealth come later in life.

Evidently, success and wealth (at least the monetary kind - intrinsic wealth and success can be attained anywhere) can only be attained through the right job, and by the right job, I mean a career in Corporate America. Albeit, anyone can have success and wealth through any given vocation, but only through Corporate America can a person lose all that is meaningful to him and suddenly take on the values and responsibilities of a large group of people and do things for the interests of the company. Once this becomes ingrained in a person's mentality, then he is well on his way to success and wealth.

But, how, you may be asking, does a person go from a happy-go-lucky everyday joe to a person clawing and inching his way up the corporate ladder? Well, my first piece of advice is to network. Learn to make friends in the corporate world, attempt to maintain those friendships, and once those friends learn of your graduation from college (it doesn't matter what your grades were), take advantage of them and use your friendship as a basis for future interviews and job offers. Use them for all they are worth, because if they don't land you a job, then think of the money you wasted on the friendship.

If networking doesn't work, I suggest trying to attend information sessions hosted by corporations regarding employment opportunities. When you attend these info sessions, make not only a mental note of the people that are attending, but take down their names, addresses, and phone numbers. You can then begin to develop friendships with the people who share your career interests. Most likely, these people will have advice on resumes and would be glad to share their list of contacts with you. If they're not willing to part with such information, then sabotage them. If he's not with you, then he's against you, and competition lost is a position gained.

If neither of these two tactics work, you can always do everything by yourself and go directly to a company for an interview. Don't bother calling and mailing a resume. I always feel that this method of gaining a company's attention is a waste of time and stamps. Rather, if you go directly to the Human Resources office without an appointment and refuse to leave without being seen for an interview, they'll see how determined you are, and isn't determination a respectable quality of a potential employee?

Once at the interview, don't be nervous, but rather, be straightforward and honest. It's never a good idea to lie about skills and attributes that you don't have. Instead, wear revealing clothing. If you can't wear revealing clothing, flirt with the interviewer. If you don't know how to flirt, bribe them with money, jewelry, or sex. Bringing kneepads to an interview wouldn't be a bad idea.

If you follow my advice, you will be guaranteed a position pushing paper in a cubicle under the watchful eyes of middle management. Good luck.

* This article is meant as a satirical look towards the plight of the career-seeking recent college graduate. None of this is meant to be taken seriously. With all due respect, landing a job in Corporate America is difficult and the author gives much love to those who try. Ironically, the author was given and accepted a job in Corporate America, even though he didn't want one in the first place. He attained the position through luck, not through sabotage, bribery, or sex. However, he is more than willing to give up his dignity for sex. Any offers?

here's the article in all its junebug.com glory, as seen through Wayback Machine:

http://web.archive.org/web/20001218025900/www.june bug.com/personal/corporate/index.html [archive.org]

Interesting that the author mentions searchable (3, Interesting)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430037)

resumes. I have been looking for a job on Monster and got nowhere with the jobs I physically applied to, but just for kicks made my resume searchable. Nothing but a headhunter for a few months and basically I forget about it. Then about a month ago out of the blue I get an email from a person who wants to set up an interview, and now I am just waiting on the formalities before I get the job offer of my dreams.
Now it's time to share your job site stories; reply if you had
a)no luck with job sites and swore them off forever
b)got the job through going through the "official" application process
c)were contacted through someone searching your resume
d)If Cowboy Neal set you up with this awesome freelance gig.

Re:Interesting that the author mentions searchable (1)

Richard Steiner (1585) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430248)

I had very poor luck responding to job postings on various job sites (no interviews after more than 300 attempts), but very good luck with folks finding my resume online and contacting me (all five of my serious interviews came as a direct result of a headhunter or company rep finding my resume on a major job site).

Re:Interesting that the author mentions searchable (1)

Avalanch00 (824483) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430530)

Not quite what you were asking for, but...
I went to have lunch with a friend, that had been gone on travel for a couple weeks. She showed me around the building (ex-top-twenty supercomputer http://www.top500.org/lists/2005/11/basic [top500.org]), introduced me to a Network Specialist. He showed me the "off-limits" areas. I ended up getting an interview that day, and two weeks later I started. I've been here two years now.

Re:Interesting that the author mentions searchable (1)

Richard Steiner (1585) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430672)

Yes, social networking can work wonders. I know a lot of folks who've obtained job in that way, and I've gotten some interviews that way as well.

Just make sure that the folks you know are working in a variety of industries so if one of them gets hammered worldwide you aren't left up a creek without a paddle. :-)

Re:Interesting that the author mentions searchable (1)

Rhonda Lee (943190) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430660)

I have been looking to switch jobs for about 5 months. I got tired of posting my resume... and waiting... and waiting... answering job posts that turn out to be recruiting companies. I finally found a site to search for jobs directly from the companies I wanted to work for and contacting or applying straight to the source, and I have been having a lot of success this way. -Rhonda

Re:Interesting that the author mentions searchable (1)

edwdig (47888) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430724)

I found my current job by submitting a resume through Dice. I think it was the only response I got from the dozens of resumes I submitted. I had much better luck submitting resumes through the company's web site or fax.

I've had my resume searchable on a few sites for a while, and I do get calls every now and then because of it. One big thing I've noticed - the vast majority of the calls you get will come within the first week or two of when you post your resume. The odds of a recruiter responding to your resume drastically go down after that. The solution is go to the job site, click Edit Resume, then click Save. Even if you don't change anything, it bumps you up in the search results and the calls start coming again.

Re:Interesting that the author mentions searchable (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14431287)

My first tech job was a work study thing. Then, I got a job through a job fair. I was way underqualified but they thought they might train me or something, then never trained me at all. The next job, however, was the result of a recuiter at Tivoli Systems, Inc. (just having been purchased by IBM) doing a websearch and finding my resume had lots of the hot keywords on it. In spite of my resume being right next to a bunch of stuff on BDSM in the grand scheme of my site, I got pulled in for an interview (thanks, Katrina!)

After that, I got a job at Cisco based on who I knew. They pulled me in as an intern in spite of the fact that I was not a student, with the stated intent to get the position opened up and get me a real position. I quit when it became abundantly clear that I would not be getting the job, and got hired at gay.com through a resume site (I think) mostly because no one else seemed to want to work there. It didn't bother me any (I'm from Santa Cruz, which is pretty enlightened) and that was fine until I got kicked out of my place by a Toys R Us Manager and Methamphetamine user named Paul Prince who still owes me my cleaning deposite, immediately after my IROC was stolen. I couldn't afford theft coverage in SF on a camaro, so it was a loss and I couldn't afford to stay in SF.

After that, I got another job based on who I know, at a company called Media X. A moron by the name of Rainer Poertner was busy running that company into the ground, and I never got my final paycheck. That's life in the startup lane! The guy who started the company knew all about it, but he didn't say anything to anyone, and he landed a cushy job with Cyan. Fucking traitor. Getting stabbed in the back [figuratively anyway] is a good thing, though, in that it teaches you not to trust people, a very useful lesson.

After THAT I ended up going to school at Yuba College for a while, and I had an intern position there. Granted, it paid about a quarter what I was used to making, but unemployment in the area was around 15% and I was glad to have it.

NOW, I work for a Native American Casino in California. This job, too, I found out about because of who I know, but in this case I am absolutely certain that I am the best applicant for the position. I'm making more than yuba but still less than half what I made in the job[s] before that, but right now I have full benefits including PPO insurance with dental and vision, and a life insurance plan. Where I'm currently living, these guys are pretty much the best employer around, and getting benefits like this is damned near impossible these days (esp. up here) so I'm pretty happy, all in all.

Names (except at the top) are included to help others avoid falling into certain traps I've been in.

Take the job (3, Insightful)

Hao Wu (652581) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430044)

This is not the 1800s, where apprenticeship still matters. Companies want FREE LABOR, so they use interns.

Don't believe the "benefits" they promote - you will gain all of that by working and being paid for your time and talent, like you deserve.

Re:Take the job (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14430261)

amen, liberals decided to educate the masses and now the masses are driving down pay for good professional jobs. They got what they wanted, communism, and have hurt good Americans like myself.

Re:Take the job (1)

dr_dank (472072) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430370)

Very true. Some companies are dependent on intern labor in that fashion. Straight out of college, I interned at a record label where a large batch of interns did most of the office work and preparation for promo gigs (most not for college credit, but trying to get into the industry) . One guy who was an employee had interned there for several months (no pay, no college credits, just some free cds) before he was their mailroom sort of guy.

That place sucked.

Re:Take the job (2, Insightful)

Metasquares (555685) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430427)

On the other hand, it is still a great opportunity to get "in the door", so to speak. They'll hire you with little experience. After all, why not? They're not risking anything if you're working for free.

If you do a very good job, they'll come to need you, in a sense. That'll make them hire you when you graduate, probably at a much better rate than you'd get just by walking in the door. This is especially true in smaller businesses, who may not be able to find someone with your skillset very easily (there's one small business that I worked for until four years ago (because I went into research after that) that's still looking for someone to replace me!)

I used to consider internships a form of exploitation, especially since my university required me to intern for at least one semester. Now I realize that it can run both ways :)

Bullshit from start to finish (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14430053)

Obviously this gotta be a scam mostly because:

All those big 3 are using agencies to fulfill their needs in short term and contract basises.

Where the hell is networking in all of this, to keep things consistent with what people talk you should include the networking factor period.

Do you really think I'm gonna buy the "landing the job" crap when downsizing and financial restructuring are the trends nowadays.

C'mon this is a blogger page are you gonna fall for this that easy?.

Most of the content are regurgitations of many books and tips out there, gimme a break.

annoying lies... (0, Troll)

NaeRey (944457) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430154)

id read the book had not the author of the post been an 'employee' of the publisher... why do they even do this stuff? "I found it at my doorstep" well, if your work there you might! we should ban those people...

Does it suggest asking for the job? (5, Interesting)

DamienMcKenna (181101) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430200)

A tip I gleamed from an in-law is that at the end of the (formal) interview ask the interviewer(s) if they feel you have the ability to do the job. If they say yes, ask them for the job! I've typically phrased it from the point of view of saving them time, e.g. "so, why don't you save yourself some time and hassle, and just hire me now?" Has worked quite well I must say. One HR person (albeing fresh off the block) was actually taken aback and visibly impressed by my asking this and I had a job offer half an hour later (I was waiting for a lift home and he came over to make me an offer), while another was comfortable enough already by this point to say yes.

Then again, if you get a "no, we're not sure if you're quite right" there's not much point in pushing it unless you can first get past their issues.

Damien

Re:Does it suggest asking for the job? (1)

dr_dank (472072) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430607)

I've typically phrased it from the point of view of saving them time, e.g. "so, why don't you save yourself some time and hassle, and just hire me now?"

Many corporations have policies that require them to interview all qualfied candidates that submit for a job (especially internal candidates). A tactic like that would have to depend on the interviewer. Some may be impressed by it while others would be put off by the perceived cockyness and arrogance that gives off. No offense intended to the parent poster.

Job-seeking tips for the Slashdot crowd (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14430202)

1. Make sure you can direct the interviewer to the subject "Microsoft vs Linux" and make you distain for anything Microsoft known and that you think people who do not know the difference between copying and linking files are weenies.
2. Make your distain for anything corporate-America related known from the beginning.
3. Make sure they notice your pierced body-part. Bring up the subject if they do not mention it.
4. Make sure you let them know that intellectual property should be free.
5. Don't take the first offer they make. Hold out, you deserve better.

the REAL way to get a job (5, Informative)

Heembo (916647) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430452)

Chapter 1. Building Unmatched Credentials
Dude, work hard and be nice to poeple. It takes 10 good references to make up for one bad one.

Chapter 2. Crafting a Successful Resume
I think that if you can not build a resume that is clear, with good spelling and clear ideas, you should not be hired. Get professional help (pay someone to help you) if you are clueless.

Chapter 3. Writing a Strong Cover Letter
Make it brief, leave you contact info, and be enthusiastic.

Chapter 4. Researching an Organization
Google around about the company for at least 5 minutes, DUH!

Chapter 5. Secrets of Applying Online
Brief emails with your contact information and resume attached (or a no-nonsense URL) is the only way to go.

Chapter 6. Mastering Career Fairs
Keep away from these evil wastes of you time. 1-on-1 in this market is best.

Chapter 7. Learning the Art of Interviewing
Well, you are who you are. Talk only when asked a question, speak slow, be calm (self-pleasure before interviews work well), and eat a little before you go in. There are some techniques you can learn to fake it, or give a "template" message - but dont go that route - people you want to work for can sniff that crap out. Be yourself, and give clear honest answered.

Chapter 8. Behavioral Interviews
Again, most people you want to work for will know if you are faking. Common sense during such interviews is best. If you dont have common sense, you are f'ed.

Chapter 9. Technical Interviews
The best answer I heard was "I dont know, but based on my previous experience, let me take a few intelligent guesses...." But in general, if you don't know it, do not try to fake an answer. That will be like shooting yourself in the foot a few times.

Chapter 10. HR Interviews and Salary Negotiation
Well, always aim high. If you ask for a low salary, you get a low answer. I also like having pay raise analysis every 1 year or 6 months in my contract. Please, it's not rude to be very clear and un-embarassed asking for a certain salary. These 5 minutes of negotiation will determine your fiscal outlook for a long time, so I say be bold of they will bowl you over!

Re:the REAL way to get a job (1)

one_bad_rover (927960) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430707)

while thats nice "perfect world" stuff.. how many jobs have you had in the past 10 years?? there is a lot to be said for the stuff that is in this book, if you havent read it, you probably shouldnt critique the content.

Re:the REAL way to get a job (1)

Heembo (916647) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430782)

I have real world experience in getting every job I have interviewed for. "Perfect world" stuff works. You try these "sly" techniques to nail a job other than common-sense research and behaviour, you are just shooting yourself in the foot since they can always fire you. I guess if you wanna job-hop and keep going from job-2-job, sure, learn sly techniques.

Re:the REAL way to get a job (1)

one_bad_rover (927960) | more than 8 years ago | (#14431153)

yeah, Im going to call BS if you say you have gotten every job you ever applied for. I highly doubt it, unless its intercompany. And its not sly techniques that get you the job, its gettng in the door. Once there, speak to your merits and be honest sure, but sell yourself and expand your horizons.
In the past 15 years Ive gone from entry level IT well over the 6 figure mark. Done it by progressively bouncing from one position to a better more challenging position, I usually end up holding a job for 1-2 years. and yes, if your in the looking market there are things you need to do to be competitive and get your foot in the door. Being Joe good guy doesnt cut it.

RE: how about "how NOT to get hired" (3, Interesting)

Shirlockc (916165) | more than 8 years ago | (#14431312)

Having reviewed lots of resumes (no, I'm not in HR), I have assembled a short list of what to do if you DON'T want to be hired - in no particular order, and yes, I have had all of these in the past, and no, haven't hired or even interviewed any of these candidates:

1) Mass email your CV and let everyone see everyone else's email addresses.
2) Have a mini blog on your website/portfolio that says the city you're in "has design studios that are crap and all they produce is shit".
3) Send me links for work examples that don't work - if you're applying for a web developer job, I expect to see web work. Similarly if you're applying for a copy editing job, I don't want to see a typo on your CV.
3) Send me "questionable" work samples to review - that gay porn site that you got paid to put together might not be something you want to be remembered by.
4) Spell my name incorrectly if you're emailing me.
5) Call me when I specifically say on the job ad NO PHONE CALLS.
6) Show up late or not show up at all for the interview.
7) Inappropriate dress, demeanor at interview - you would think this is a given but it isn't.
8) Tell me your life story at the interview as opposed to your work experience.
9) List age, marital status, GPA etc. on the CV - this may be SOP in other countries but not in the U.S.
10) Send out your CV and cover letter without getting a friend to review it. If you have no friends, pay someone, get your mother to do it. Ultimatley, you're not "waiting for my replay" and I don't want to "TTYL".

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