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Revolution Controller Use Detailed

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the hack-slash-get-bigger-arms dept.

Nintendo 28

Joystiq reports on new details on using the Revolution's controller from an unlikely source. National Geographic Kids Magazine has a spread on a trip they took to Nintendo's HQ, and what they saw when they were there. From the article: "Backwards compatibility is of course something we've known about for awhile; however, the "old favorites" mention is so provocatively vague! They list The Legend of Zelda, Super Smash Brothers, and Donkey Konga. Question is, are they listing games or franchises? If they are listing games, does this mean the "old favorite" versions of these games (Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, Melee) will use the Revolution controller to slash a sword or work as a shield?" Update: 01/10 05:35 GMT by Z : Yeah. It's a fake. Sorry about that, but I thought you could trust National Geographic. Points to Press the Buttons for the DS9 reference in mentioning the fakery.

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Detailed? (1)

Mursk (928595) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429775)

'Controller use detailed?' After reading TFA, it seems they are using the word 'detailed' loosely...

Nintendo have already denied these rumours (5, Informative)

Kazzahdrane (882423) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429781) 378 []

From the above:
But this is all just wishful thinking, according to Nintendo. "What the magazine has done is imagine how existing franchises would work with the Revolution controller, rather than actually seeing anything," a spokesperson told Eurogamer, adding: "It's all still speculation."

Re:Nintendo have already denied these rumours (1)

Cyphertube (62291) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429890)

Oh well.

I think in some ways, though, all this hype and speculation is good at least in the kind of market feedback they get. Hey, we get psyched about swinging a sword, and someone will figure out a way to sell us the product.

Re:Nintendo have already denied these rumours (1)

FinestLittleSpace (719663) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429981)

I don't think the hype is at all uncalled for really. Nintendo aren't ones to let down hype. At the end of the day, with controllers like this, they're either brilliant or they seriously suck, and if they suck they won't get through testing/QA.

I honestly feel that this console will be a joy to play, and would preorder one NOW if I could... and developers WILL embrace it. Whether it'll sell is another matter altogether, as the market has not always chosen the most innovative or even *best* products for the win. I don't really embrace the whole gaming culture anymore, especially not of high profile games with fancy graphics (no time, no spare money to splash on that stuff), but I feel that this console could potentially bridge the gap between family and computer games, very very easily.

Re:Nintendo have already denied these rumours (1)

Kazzahdrane (882423) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430088)

What everyone seems to be ignoring is the quality of the games. Of course Nintendo have a long history or excellent first-party titles, but if that was to stop or stutter during the Revolution's lifetime everyone would no doubt blame its failure on "people hate Nintendo".

Personally, I'm going to buy one because I have faith that Nintendo will be able to make at least a few quality titles a year to keep me playing, but they really need some big high-profile games for launch. The DS launch was rightfully laughed at by all but the fanboys, but I bought one before Xmas now some decent games are out for it. Nintendo really need to seize the day and launch the console with a new Mario game and maybe a new Smash Brothers, or other big-name franchises.

Re:Nintendo have already denied these rumours (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14439884)

"The DS launch was rightfully laughed at by all but the fanboys,"

I don't see how or why that could be the case. Justify the statement, since there are many people who would disagree with you.

Re:Nintendo have already denied these rumours (1)

Kazzahdrane (882423) | more than 8 years ago | (#14440616)

The launch games. In the opinion of myself, and many others, the games available for the DS at launch made for a crap launch. Mario 64 DS was the star, and that was a port of an N64 game with a few new bells and whistles. Or perhaps WarioWare for the DS, amazingly made without an ounce of multiplayer - great for the DS with its much touted wi-fi capabilities.

The fanboys I know (and I'm cursed with a lot of my friends being Nintendo fanboys, it's scary sometimes) all still praised the system for it's amazing features - and all proceeded to spend their time playing with PICTOCHAT.

Sorry, but that isn't how you launch a system. The PSP may not be the better or more popular handheld, but its launch selection was ten times better - varied and with high-quality titles.

NB: I'm commenting on the European launch here, but I gathered from various gaming websites at the time of the US launch that they had the same problems there. Nintendo will have learned from their mistake though, and as I said with a few big-name launch titles they have a good chance of very high sales at launch and in the months following.

Re:Nintendo have already denied these rumours (1)

Headcase88 (828620) | more than 8 years ago | (#14429939)

Good. I don't know about you, but I don't want to hold a Revmote and physically do a "punch" to play Smash Bros. Maybe for Punch Out 3, but not for Smash Bros.

Re:Nintendo have already denied these rumours (1)

Kazzahdrane (882423) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430109)

Hear hear, I bought the original Eyetoy: Play for my PS2 years back and was exhausted after playing that ninja-slapping game for a few minutes!

Re:Nintendo have already denied these rumours (1)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430210)

Why not have punch-out 3 for the DS though? Seriously, the original arcade game was dual screen, so naturally they have to put out a copy on the DS. It's been way too long since they released a punch out game!

Zelda swordplay (1)

MilenCent (219397) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430045)

I can't see how swinging a sword using the Revolution controller can be made to work in an Ocarina of Time-style Zelda unless the game was purposely designed around the sword, which Wind Waker definitely was not.

Later Zeldas, however, could be very interesting indeed....

Re:Zelda swordplay (1)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430208)

So your skill in the game will be partly influenced by the player's physical condition? Video games were made for nerds that couldn't play real sports. The circle is now complete.

Re:Zelda swordplay (1)

Headcase88 (828620) | more than 8 years ago | (#14435474)

" So your skill in the game will be partly influenced by the player's physical condition?

What's next, a game [] where you have to step on panels to the beat of the music?

Re:Zelda swordplay (1)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#14435546)

Hah, remember the Power Pad for the NES? It took me like 5 minutes to realize I can sit my fat ass down on the floor and slap the numbers with my hands. 40mph dashes, 120 meter long jumps, it was pretty cool.

Re:Zelda swordplay (1)

NonSequor (230139) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430362)

I don't see why you would say that.

The way I would do it is that you would control movement with the analog stick in your left hand. Normally the motion sensitive control would just change the direction that Link turns his head. However, when you target an enemy by holding a trigger button it switches control schemes. The analog stick would let you strafe around the enemy as in other 3D Zelda games and the motion sensitive control would control the sword. You could make stabbing motions for thrusting attacks and swipe it for slashing attacks (this could be more interesting if the sword on screen slashes in the same direction as you do). This still leaves a lot of gestures for other actions. You could pull the controller back to jump backwards. You could point the controller up to defend with your shield. You could hold the controller sideways to parry attacks.

This control scheme leaves lots of buttons free for assigning items to and for various special abilities. The motion sensitive controller could also be used with your items. You could swipe the controller across the screen to specify the path that the boomerang flies across. In past games it took time to aim the hookshot, but you could do it instantly by just pointing it at an object.

It seems to me like the new controller is ideally suited for Zelda type games. How well all of these ideas will actually work remains to be seen though.

Re:Zelda swordplay (1)

British (51765) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430779)

If that is so, there better be a Star Wars light sabre game. You know, in addition to the 99E99 star wars games already out there. Wired magazine made a joke of a Katamari Damacy rip-off called "Adhedsive Death Star", which I assume you roll up a smaller Death Star around and pick up various Star Wars objects.

I can just see it now. First you pick up malocholrans(whatever those creaturs are for the force), jedi training balls, Darth maul's probe, "off" light sabers, then work your way up to droids, small vehicles(tie fighters), big vehicles(AT-ATs), then eventually star destroyers and entire planets.

You then would have a score of "light side/dark side". Pick up more imperial objects, and you're a jedi. Pick up rebel stuff, you're in cohorts with Darth Vader.

I better stop now before someone at Lucasarts reads this post and actually makes it in conjunction with Namco.

Re:Zelda swordplay (1)

MilenCent (219397) | more than 8 years ago | (#14434605)

It seems to me like the new controller is ideally suited for Zelda type games. How well all of these ideas will actually work remains to be seen though.

I should apologize a little for not being clear in my comment. Of course it's possible to do a fakey, "this motion means that" system for the game, essentially using mouse gestures to activate commands.

But beyond the initial novelty, that's not what people will want to do with the controller. To actually swordfight in a game, the game will have to have some kind of analogue between position of the controller in your hand and your character's sword on the screen. The really cool thing about the controller is that kind of thing is actually possible, and the first person to do it will probably make a mint even if his game is otherwise crap. If Zelda does it, it'll be golden. But I don't think you can just shoehorn that kind of swordfighting play into an older Zelda.

You know... (1)

ArwynH (883499) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430361)

All Nintendo has to do to make old games fully playable with the new controler is to provide a way to map the new controler's movements to old controler buttons. That way as far as the game was concerned you would be using an ordinary old controler. Thus 100% compatible with old games.

Ofcourse the gameplay would differ, but as for whether it would be better or worse, that would depend on the game.

Re:You know... (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430668)

That'd defeat the whole advantage the gyros give you and merely make the games cumbersome.

Re:You know... (1)

justchris (802302) | more than 8 years ago | (#14434143)

Why does everyone just say the controller uses gyros as if that's the big deal. Sure, it has gyros, but that's fairly unimportant, since that's not how it senses 3 dimensional movement. That's what the sensors are for.

Re:You know... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14435262)

Do you even know what gyros are?

It's a spinnig disc that's got freedom of movement in 3 axis. If you move its base, the spinning disc remains in the same position, allowing you to reference your position in relation to the disc.

This is pretty much the only way to find out your orientation in space, as you don't have gravity to let you know which way is up and which way is down.

The Revolution controller does not use a spinning disc gyroscope for three reasons: it is a big drain on the battery, and the mechanism is rather fragile. Safety is also an issue, as an off-balance disc spinning at 30,000 RPM would shatter the remote if it exploded or broke off its axel.

Instead, the Revolution controller uses a solid-state gyroscope(s), much like the ones found in a Segway. They are much safer, don't drain batteries and don't have moving parts that can be damaged. They are used to determine yaw, roll and tilt of the controller. The package might be similar to the second product on this page: []

Since the controller can sense acceleration, it can derive the speed and the distance that it moved in a specific movement, which is then translated into the movement on the screen.

Re:You know... (1)

justchris (802302) | more than 8 years ago | (#14451065)

Yes actually, I do. My point stands. It uses gyros to detect angular movement, like you said pitch, yaw and roll.

It does not use the gyros the detect linear movement, it uses a sensor bar and triangulation. I don't have the exact equation to hand, but converting angular momentum into linear movement has a pretty hefty loss. If they want the controller to be precise in it's detection, it's probably more loss than they can afford.

And in my opinion, detecting that someone has tilted their controller is less of a big deal than detecting the x,y,z coordinates of an object in space as related only to an arbitrarily defined 0,0,0 position.

Re:You know... (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 8 years ago | (#14435677)

I use the term to refer to the whole motion detection deal of the Rev rod controller. But the point remains, merely replacing button presses with rod gestures is pointless and only makes the game harder to play (and not in the good sense).

Re:You know... (1)

ArwynH (883499) | more than 8 years ago | (#14444696)

In order to take advantage of the new controller the game would have to be specificly designed to take advantage of it. Thus adding proper support for the controller to old games would require a compete re-write of the game. Mapping gestures to actions is really the only way add new controller support to old games. In most cases this will feel gimicy and nowhere as good as the original control method, however in some cases this will probably work.

E.G. If you map the D-pad to it's corresponding controller pointing gestures (point controller up a bit for up, etc) and the a and b buttons to thier corresponding equivelents you end up with quite a nice set-up to play most old RPGs.

Re:You know... (1)

justchris (802302) | more than 8 years ago | (#14451097)

Yes, I agree. With n64 games they could probably improve on it, but control in NES & SNES games are already so simple changing the controls to utilized the revmote would just make things more confusing.

I was simply expressing a pet peeve of mine.

How Backwards Compatibility will work (3, Informative)

Prien715 (251944) | more than 8 years ago | (#14430462)

Nintendo has already SAID how backwards compatibility will be handled w.r.t. UI. You simply plug the gamecube controller into the revolution.

So sad about National Geographic Kids... (3, Interesting)

Turken (139591) | more than 8 years ago | (#14433751)

I used to be a subscriber to the magazine, back when it was National Geographic World. Back in that day, it actually had interesting articles and no advertisements. I grew out of the magazine, but my younger sisters continued getting it until shortly after it went through the "National Geographic Kids" makeover.

I'm not sure exactly when it happened or who was responsible, but somewhere along the line, something went drastically wrong. If you pick up a copy of the magazine now, it's nothing but pure trash. At least a third of the pages are overt advertisements. Sandwiched between all the advertisements are the "articles" of which at least half are nothing but thinly veiled ads for more toys, tv shows, and movies. Gone are the informative articles about the world around us. Now, all they they have are features that talk about and try to sell the latest commercial crap.

The sad thing is, there are many parents who are suckered into subscribing or keep renewing their kids' subscriptions to the "magazine" simply because it bears the National Geographic name up top. They never bother to look at the actual content, and so the advertisers are allowed to slip under the radar and brainwash kids, all in the name of "education."

So, yeah, I'm not surprised at all that NGK has an article about the new Nintendo console, or that it's a worthless article to boot.


chrnb (243739) | more than 8 years ago | (#14440342)

If there is a Wario ware game on the rev, I'm soooooooo there!!!!
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