Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Galileo Sends Its First Signals

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the showing-off-for-the-neighbors dept.

Space 789

VVrath writes "Galileo, the European answer to the US Military-owned GPS has sent it's first signals to ground stations in the UK and Belgium. The first satellite in the Galileo system, Giove-A was launched on December 28th 2005, and is set to be followed by a further 29 satellites by 2010. At a cost of over $4 Billion, is this system really going to offer any major advantages over GPS, or is it merely a politicised 'anything you can do we can do better' by the European Space Agency?"

cancel ×

789 comments

Better than US GPS? (1, Informative)

MikeWasHere05 (900478) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476375)

"At a cost of over $4 Billion, is this system really going to offer any major advantages over GPS, or is it merely a politicised 'anything you can do we can do better' by the European Space Agency?"

If I remember correctly, Galileo is to have accuracy within centimeters. With current US-GPS the accuracy is much worse. Within a few yards, I believe.

Re:Better than US GPS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476391)

Yards are very inaccurate. Centimeters are required!

Re:Better than US GPS? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476408)

Particularly when you want to fly a missle up Bin Laudin's ass.

Re:Better than US GPS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476517)

Especially since missiles go kaboom.

Re:Better than US GPS? (4, Informative)

jm92956n (758515) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476411)

Military grade GPS hardware is accurate to within a few centimeters as well. Consumer equipment isn't, but this isn't due to technical limitations of the satelites.
Much of the equipment has been upgraded in recent years, too. Signals were originally intentionally inaccurate because the military didn't want Kim Jong Il to have a $99 missle guidance system. Recent upgrades have allowed the military to distort signals based upon geography: selectively, certain "hostile" areas are subject to this distortion.

Re:Better than US GPS? (3, Interesting)

gtoomey (528943) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476480)

The difference in accuracy of military and civilian GPS is due to the algorithms used. Civilian GPS is not able to decode all the bits of the signal, as the least significant bits are encrypted.

There is a more accurate "workaround" for civilian use called differential GPS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_GPS [wikipedia.org]

Re:Better than US GPS? (5, Insightful)

Erwos (553607) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476614)

If by "workaround", you mean centimeter-level accuracy, sure. Differential GPS is already being used by many people who require insane levels of accuracy - I've seen it in action, and it's damned impressive. You can also use it while moving, so the idea that GPS isn't good enough for aircraft is kind of stupid. P-code is not the end-all, be-all of accuracy, in any case.

Reading these posts, it's pretty obvious that the last exposure some people had to GPS information was in 1997 or something. Low-res selective availability? That got turned off in like 2000. And "turning off GPS for Europe" sounds kind of stupid, too - are American pilots just going to fly into the dark all the sudden? A little less paranoia, and a little more education, please...

-Erwos

Re:Better than US GPS? (5, Insightful)

HugePedlar (900427) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476413)

Not to mention that it won't be turned off or degraded in times of war, or on the whim of one country's military - quite a necessity for a technology that people and corporations will come to rely on more and more.

Re:Better than US GPS? (0)

peragrin (659227) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476454)

While i agree with your sentiments. accuracy to within a few yards is well with in a human's ability to adjust for.

Re:Better than US GPS? (1)

HugePedlar (900427) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476509)

Excuse me? How was the above modded Troll?? That was EXACTLY the reasoning given by the original proponents of Galileo in the first place!

Re:Better than US GPS? (2, Interesting)

CptNerd (455084) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476574)

Not to mention that it won't be turned off or degraded in times of war, or on the whim of one country's military - quite a necessity for a technology that people and corporations will come to rely on more and more.

And we know this how, exactly? The EU has "assured" us that they won't be as petty, vindictive, and politically motivated as the US, even if the US does something the EU doesn't approve of?

Will they cheerfully sell centimeter-accurate receivers to all buyers, even Iran and North Korea?

Re:Better than US GPS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476595)

Do you really think it matters if a 50 kiloton bomb has accuracy limited to a few yard instead of a few centimeters?

Re:Better than US GPS? (1)

gtoomey (528943) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476441)

GPS receivers for civilian use are limited in their resolution. Its worse than 10 metres, cerntainly not enough to land a plane (planes use GPS for general navigation, ILS for landing).

Re:Better than US GPS? (2, Insightful)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476518)

Yeah, that'll come in handy for Chinese missiles.

http://www.gpsworld.com/gpsworld/article/articleDe tail.jsp?id=21977 [gpsworld.com]

I really wonder what the implications of this are if the US squared off with China over Taiwan for example. I don't really have a problem with the EU wanting to have an "ndependent defense identity" or whatever, the problem is if it ends up giving a leg up to China or North Korea, or even Iran in a future conflict with the US. Since EU countries would either be on the same side as the US, or neutral this would be seriously self defeating. Actually, I do have a problem with the EU buereacracy's implicit assumption that the US is a strategic competitor, since it could develop into a very dangerous rivalry in the long run, and no one in the EU has ever voted on this policy.

Re:Better than US GPS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476615)

I wouldn't assume either a friendly or neutral EU stance. The EU would probably become an active beligerent (if only diplomatically). The EU is now actively trying to sell weapons to China that could take out our naval ships if we had to fight in the straights. Now let me ask you, is that a neutral or friendly stance?

What the hell just happened in France? The riots, the rapes on the train on New Years... They have an aging population. 45%+ of those 21 are unassimilated muslims. Now, one doesn't have to be real imaginitive to see that Iran may become France's best friend real soon.

I work for the European Space Agency (0, Troll)

Fecal Troll Matter (445929) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476527)


So I am really getting a kick out of most of these replies.

Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like you know what you are talking about.

But trust me.... You don't.

I think you just want to make yourself sound smart, when in reality you dont know what you are talking about.

This is how bad info gets passed around.

If you dont know about the topic....Dont make yourself sound like you do.

Cuz some Slashdotters believe anything they hear.

In preperation for WWIII... (3, Insightful)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476376)

...it's always a good idea to have redundancy.

SEX WITH BEN AND KATE (1)

Sexual Asspussy (453406) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476522)

It felt so good lying there behind my girlfriend's sexy young sister, fucking into her tight wet vagina, feeling her big, firm buttocks against my belly, wobbling and squeezing her luscious thirty seven C spunkbags in my hands, nuzzling and kissing the back of her neck, her gorgeous blonde hair in my face, the sexual aroma of her in my nostrils. I was so hard and erect, my big bollocks so full of hot, sticky sperm. And knowing that I would soon be torturing and murdering the beautiful piece of meat I had in my arms was such an aphrodisiac. I had to pull out of darling Kate's lovely filth hole before I shot my spunk too quickly. Kneeling over her, I rolled the beautiful cunt onto its back and lay down on top of its fabulous young body. I re-entered Kate between her closed legs for that added tightness I love so much. Then I reached over to grab Ben's leg. All three beds were against the walls, each at ninety degrees to the next, so Ben's legs were near to Kate's head, thus allowing me to get hold of the little loveboy's ankle with ease. I pulled him down the bed until I could comfortably reach his cocklet and his pretty boycunt. I wanted to fondle my favourite child's sex organs while I fucked his Auntie Kate. Licking Kate's beautiful face and leaving gobs of my saliva on her, I pushed my penis deep inside the young, tarty womanwhore's slimy cunt until I reached her cervix. A couple of really hard, brutal shoves got my fat knob well inside Katie's filthy uterus which is where I intended to squirt my cum. Fondling young Ben whilst raping his pretty mummy's sister was exquisitely dirty and I had to have more. I pulled more firmly on my sexy little cuntboy, dragging the sleeping fuckchild down the bed until I could lift him fully over to Kate and I. I leant his pretty blond head up against the wall, facing it, and sat his sweet boycrotch over his aunt's sexual face. Prising her lips open, I dropped his cute cocklet into Kate's mouth and let his weight settle on her face. I began sucking Ben's gorgeous fat small boy bottom and tonguing his sexy little arsehole making me feel so rude I went over the edge and orgasmed into Kate's body, squirting about ten times into her slimy babybag. After putting Ben back in his bed, I got a wine glass, held it under Kate's vagina, tipped her up at an angle as best I could, and collected my spunk as it dribbled out of her wet, slimy cunnyhole. As most of it went inside her uterus, there wasn't a great deal but I had enough, about an inch deep in the bottom of the glass, to give both girls a little drink of their owner's thick gooey cockfilth. I poured some into Kate's mouth where it would filter between her closed teeth onto her lovely pink tongue and dribble down her throat. Back in bed with Kate's elder sister, I poured the rest of my sperm into her mouth. So pleasing to know that my personal whore was drinking its owners cockslime mixed with the vaginal juices of her little sister. Then I got back into the same position from which I'd left her, spooned in behind her fabulous body but this time I inserted my softening penis in her pretty anus where I urinated.

jamming (4, Insightful)

towaz (445789) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476377)

What happened with the usa requesting that they can jam the sat network when needed?
Did they get this denied or incorporated in this network?

Re:jamming (2, Informative)

Cannedbread (841645) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476404)

they will probably just drive around with humvee's broadcasting noise onto the frequencies galileo uses. you can jam the us GPS in a pretty big area using a device that uses less power than a lightbulb.

Re:jamming (1)

njh (24312) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476526)

Admittedly, a very big and bright light bulb...;)

Re:jamming (1)

blindseer (891256) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476567)

they will probably just drive around with humvee's broadcasting noise onto the frequencies galileo uses. you can jam the us GPS in a pretty big area using a device that uses less power than a lightbulb.


If you are broadcasting with enough energy to disrupt GPS (Galileo or NavStar) you are broadcasting enough energy to be a very nice target for anti-radio missiles. They don't need GPS, just a reasonably accurate directional antenna. Just ask Saddam Heussein (SP?) how well GPS jamming worked for him.

Re:jamming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476409)

Of course it was implemented in the code, we all know that the almighty USA rule the world.

Re:jamming (5, Interesting)

MikeWasHere05 (900478) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476412)

Could someone provide a link to an article saying that the US specifically wanted the ability to jam Galileo's signal? Not trolling here, just haven't seen one yet.

The closest thing I could find was this: http://www.useu.be/Galileo/June1902NATOBellGalileo GPS.html [www.useu.be]
If the Galileo signal directly overlays the GPS M-code signal, he warned, "jamming one would also jam the other, resulting in a negative impact on NATO's military effectiveness in the area of operations, potentially risking fratricide on friendly forces and civil populations."
So I don't think that NATO/US is asking for the ability to jam the signal, just stating that the frequencys are close enough that interference/jamming on Galileo could negatively affect GPS.

Sorry if this post isn't fully coherent. I have a pretty bad headache right now.

Re:jamming (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476415)

Yeah. Let Adolf Bush decide about the navigation systems of other countries. And if not let him shot their satelites down. I really hope and prey that the US will soon collapse. They are the biggest danger to the earth as a whole.

Re:jamming (2, Informative)

Ryan Stortz (598060) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476431)

According to Wikipedia's page on Galileo [wikipedia.org] :
The European Union has agreed to switch to a range of frequencies known as Binary Offset Carrier 1.1 in June 2004, which will allow both European and American forces to block each other's signals in the battlefield without disabling the entire system.
The writeup is a little confusing, it looks like its saying that GPS is blockable by "European forces" and the USA is alright with it. As far as I'm aware, that is not the case.

Re:jamming (4, Informative)

Some Bitch (645438) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476635)

The writeup is a little confusing, it looks like its saying that GPS is blockable by "European forces" and the USA is alright with it. As far as I'm aware, that is not the case.

GPS is blockable by any idiot with a soldering iron, you don't need the permission of the US government just a little knowledge of electronics.

DENIED (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476620)

[root@whitehouse.gov]# ssh USA@galileo.eu
USA@galileo.eu's password:

[USA@galileo.eu]$ cat /dev/urandom > /dev/sat*
bash: sat*: Permission denied
[USA@galileo.eu]$ # shake fist
Anyway, I don't think the U.S. would even need to get permission. They'd just jam it anyway. Witness the recent pakistan bombings. We don't care about sovereignty, we just do whatever the hell we want.

hum (5, Insightful)

McGiraf (196030) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476383)

it not 'anything you can do we can do better' by the European Space Agency it's 'you cannot prevent us from using this one USA' by the European Space Agency.

Re:hum (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476490)

it not 'anything you can do we can do better' by the European Space Agency it's 'you cannot prevent us from using this one USA' by the European Space Agency.

Did you hear that? No, because the sound of a missile blowing up a satellite is silent in space.

Re:hum (1)

McGiraf (196030) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476535)

That would be and act of war, for the GPS it's just a switch. And by the way there is no sound in space Luke.

Staying Competitive: Europe vs. USA (4, Insightful)

reporter (666905) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476579)

Regrettably, many Americans view Europeans as uncompetitive. The American urban legend says that the socialist states in Europe destroy economic growth and that, as a consequence, Europe lacks the economic structure to build competitive products.

Americans conveniently overlook the fact that Europeans have chosen to be a bit more socialist in their economic policies in order to build kinder and gentler societies. Just compare the crime rates between the USA and Europe. The Europeans have largely succeeded.

This Galileo system launched by Europe also demonstrates that Europe continues to be technologically competent and that slightly socialistic economic policies have not diminished Europe's ability to compete.

The Europeans should continue to build competitive national projects to demonstrate (1) that they can continue to compete with the USA and (2) that you do not need a huge military budget to spur innovation. Civilian budgets work just fine. The military industrial complex be damned.

Re:Staying Competitive: Europe vs. USA (-1, Troll)

Oligonicella (659917) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476616)

"The military industrial complex be damned."

Unless, of course, you require them to shield your gentler nation from those who would walk all over it. Then, it's welcome.

Galileo is nog about politics (3, Funny)

Erik Hensema (12898) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476387)

... and that's why it's better.

It's *all* about politics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476440)

Whether that's good or bad is an exercise for the reader to determine.

Re:Galileo is nog about politics (1)

Peden (753161) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476594)

Something that cost 4 billion tax-dollars has something to do with politic s, you can be darn sure of that.

anything you can do we can do better (0, Flamebait)

truckaxle (883149) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476389)

It is always easier to imitate than to innovate.

Re:anything you can do we can do better (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476455)

Way to show a glaring ignorance of the differences between the two systems.

Re:anything you can do we can do better (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476464)

It is always easier to imitate than to innovate.

And it's usually more profitable, too. Of course, the US is doing less and less in the way of innovation each year, and soon we won't have anything to imitate at all.

Re:anything you can do we can do better (1, Redundant)

dhruvx (942514) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476583)

right. atleast there won't be any monopoly.

Re:anything you can do we can imitate and market (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476605)

microsofts real motto

Anything you can do we can imitate, buyout and market so heavily every media outlet sells out.

It's the Eurpoean UNION (4, Insightful)

BarronVonGoerig (907146) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476390)

this isn't a chance for the EU to show off...it is just another way for the EU to become more independant, because remember, the US can shut down GPS service to the EU at any time. >tg

Re:It's the Eurpoean UNION (1)

ScentCone (795499) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476596)

So, how does this help Poland, or Italy, etc., of the other members of the EU don't think the same thing that those countries think about when and how it should disabled/dumbed-down in the event of hostilities aimed against EU member interests? Saying that "the EU" is now better off because they don't have to depend on the US's long-standing GPS system doesn't mean that there's no longer a clash of interests. I don't see the EU as one big happy mutual-interest zone when it comes to transportation, telecommunications, and conflict engagement. I'm betting that the people in Eastern Europe feel somewhat differently about such policy issues than do, say, the politicians in France, Spain, Denmark, etc.

Re:It's the Eurpoean UNION (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476664)

"I don't see the EU as one big happy mutual-interest zone"
duh! That's what democracy is all about.

Those Gosh-Darned Europeans (4, Insightful)

Schlemphfer (556732) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476392)

or is it merely a politicised 'anything you can do we can do better' by the European Space Agency?"

Yeah, because God forbid those Europeans act unilaterally on a technological matter involving their self-interest. You would think that five years of the Bush administration would have convinced the rest of the world that we always have their interests at heart. OK, that's all I wanted to say, time to cook up another batch of Freedom Fries.

Re:Those Gosh-Darned Europeans (5, Insightful)

timeOday (582209) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476437)

Agreed, this is like asking "Why does Britain needs an air force when the US already has one?"

As it happens, this will also be good for all of us. Galileo promises [bbc.co.uk] sub-meter accuracy, faster acquisition, and better penetration through cover.

I'll be pleased as punch to accept this gift from Europe.

Re:Those Gosh-Darned Europeans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476476)

So, when is your first missle going to be launched?

That is what you mean right?

Re:Those Gosh-Darned Europeans (1)

Durrok (912509) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476622)

Francine: How's everyone's French toast? Stan: Smelly and ungrateful. But this American toast is delicious!

Ownership (0, Flamebait)

Fezzick (913356) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476394)

This sounds like a situation of control. Rather than sumbit to US authority (which intentionally cripples GPS accuracy for commercial uses), European nations are apparently willing to buy their own (new and improved too!).

Re:Ownership (1)

werewolf1031 (869837) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476613)

...which intentionally cripples GPS accuracy for commercial uses...

Quite simple reason for that: Anything that's available for commercial use (especially radio waves from satellites) is potentially available for use by an enemy. You shouldn't need to let that idea bake for too long before understanding why the U.S. intentionally crippled its own GPS for commercial use, and wanted the ability to jam it on demand. Kinda dumb to allow an unfriendly nuclear-armed nation, eg. North Korea*, to use GPS to guide missiles against the U.S. or its allies. I've no doubt that the EU has taken similar precautions with the Galileo satellites as well.


*Note: That is nothing against the people of N.K., I'm speaking specifically of those currently in its top-level leadership.

Advantages (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476397)

Galileo has a bunch of advantages over GPS, like being designed to work to a higher degree of acuracy and to work inside buildings and in built-up areas. Take a look at this article http://www.gpsworld.com/gpsworld/article/articleDe tail.jsp?id=61295 [gpsworld.com] for more information.

Submitters stop with the editorials (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476407)

or is it merely a politicised 'anything you can do we can do better' by the European Space Agency?"

What the hell is this?? More like anybody with more than 1/2 a fuckin brain realizes its a BAD idea to have the only positioning system run by a country who has made it blatantly obvious they don't care about what any other countries feel.

Re:Submitters stop with the editorials (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476443)

Hail to that. Tagging a moronic question onto a story submission doesn't make for a great discussion. Anyone who has actually read anything about Galileo will know that the system has merits of its own and isn't just a chance to play tit-for-tat with the States.

Re:Submitters stop with the editorials (3, Insightful)

Atmchicago (555403) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476612)

It's not that the US doesn't care for other countries, it's just that each country has its own self-interest in mind. The US does what it thinks is best for itself, and Europe does the same. Big deal.

Better, but not equal (-1, Flamebait)

adminsr (919472) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476410)

Remember, the GPS system was the pioneer system of its kind. While the new EU system is more accurate, it's merely a new release. It may be attempted as an in-your-face, but the real honor belongs to the brilliant minds of the GPS system for doing the impossible, as the US always does.

Re:Better, but not equal (1)

McGiraf (196030) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476430)

WTF??? is this flamebait??? or are you completely and hoplessy brainwashed?

Re:Better, but not equal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476512)

It's flamebait because he started out with a reasonable point - that GPS was pioneering and Galileo is refinement - and attached moronic USA cheerleading jingoism to the end of it, making it impossible to mod up his point without supporting the idiocy he attached to it.

Do you genuinely believe the USA always does the impossible?

Re:Better, but not equal (2, Insightful)

cliffski (65094) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476481)

like be in denial about evolution AND global warming? Yeah I would have thought that impossible in 2006 too.

Re:Better, but not equal (1)

Scooter (8281) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476496)

If it's been done it isn't really impossible is it?

Re:Better, but not equal (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476513)

Yep, and you're using the WWW, build at CERN (in Europe, in case you didn't know...).

Re:Better, but not equal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476580)

And who built the infrastructure the WWW runs on? That's right.

Independence (2, Insightful)

Vlijmen Fileer (120268) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476419)

One of the points, besides accuracy, is independence. Such a system is important for military uses. As the U.S. are getting more idiotic with the day, and can turn off GPS when they want, Europe has decided this is a thing worth having for yourself. And I wholeheartedly agree.

Re:Independence (2, Informative)

werewolf1031 (869837) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476654)

While I agree with the rest of your post, please make a distinction between U.S. citizens and its government, they are not one in the same, and there are a great many (myself included) who strongly disagree with many of the egregious actions taken by our current administration. There's quite a diversity of opinion and often sharp disagreement in this country, please don't lump us all into a single group.

That's all I'm asking. Thanks.

Politics (2, Informative)

denominateur (194939) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476420)

I remember reading (In PhysicsWorld published by the IoP [www.iop.org] that the political reasoning behind the GPS workalike system was basically that the United States cannot be trusted to provide GPS functionality (as happened on 9/11) in emergencies and during exceptional circumstances. As more and more businesses (and most transport) depend on GPS functionality the European Union has decided to build something more thrustworthy and the improvements are just a side-effect. In the end, both parties will benefit. There was something about jamming eachother's networks but I can't exactly remember it... anyone?

propaganda video (1)

ILKO_deresolution (352578) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476422)

Has anybody seen that vid..."Who's next, France?, Britan?" hehehe
I guess they really think that shit huh.
Make it happen #1.

Mod article -1, flamebait (5, Informative)

vadim_t (324782) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476423)

I would think the reason is completely obvious: It's a really bad idea to have your critical infrastructure depend on something external you can't control.

In a data center, do you trust your ISP has full redundancy and will never, ever fail, decide to disconnect you or go bankrupt? Or you you use several ISPs, have an UPS and a standby generator just in case some day something does go wrong?

Re:Mod article -1, flamebait (1)

Edmund Blackadder (559735) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476586)

I agree, that article was obvious flamebait.

USA Leads, Rest of World Follows (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476426)

Funny how so many slashdotters like to proclaim the US's imminent decline, and then you have this story which shows how ahead the US is in many many areas.

Whether it is the Internet you are surfing on now, or the GPS signal you are getting, or the movies you watch, just remember where it came from: The US of A. It's funny how the Euros are finally getting Galileo running years after the US invented and perfected GPS. Nothing like following the leader.

I hope the US bashers here realize this. The United States of America is the greatest country in the history of the world. This Earth belongs to the US, the rest just live here.

God Bless America.

Re:USA Leads, Rest of World Follows (5, Insightful)

MikeWasHere05 (900478) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476460)

This, Ladies and Gentlemen, is how Americans get a bad reputation as arrogant fools. I was agreeing with this poster until the "The United States of America is the greatest country in the history of the world. This Earth belongs to the US, the rest just live here." line.

Yes, the US does do great things. Yes, the US does make some mistakes (as does any country.) But to say that the world belongs to the US is just pure arrogance.

-Mike
A proud citizen of the United States of America

Re:USA Leads, Rest of World Follows (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476542)

Thanks Mike. Fortunately we have smart people like you here in Europe too and we understand that people like the original poster don't represent whole US. Unfortunately we have our own share of those people - many times bashing americans, categorizing and simplifying too much. But it's voices like you, who remind us that there's still some hope that we can get along - and that not everything is / should be competition. Hopefully one day EU and USA will be the best friends. Combined we're still somewhere around 10% of world population and we can't afford fighting against each other. Peace and love, my dear friends. And thank you Mike for your sensible words.

Re:USA Leads, Rest of World Follows (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476478)

Mod parent up; it's time people come to realize that our great land of liberty has been, is, and always be the leader in the World.

Re:USA Leads, Rest of World Follows (1)

McGiraf (196030) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476497)

The world existed before 1944, look it up on the internet.

Re:USA Leads, Rest of World Follows (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476631)

Your "land of liberty" seems to allow the President to tap anyone's phone calls for no reason. Your "land of liberty" has spent most of the last four decades imposing making the rest of the world /less/ free by imposing its will on it. That's not democracy - that's imperialism. And your "land of liberty" didn't even EXIST until fairly recently in historical terms. It's also likely to go into pretty bad decline at some point - go read a literacy study and be amazed at how many of you folk can't even read. In fact, increasingly the U.S. is _failing_ to perform a leadership role in the world, because it's completely ignoring it (apart from certain oil-rich countries that interest your oil-baron-thick-as-two-short-planks President financially).

The U.S.A. is *not* the world's leader, because the rest of us have the liberty to choose not to follow your folly.

Please get a clue.

can't we all just get along? (1)

cwtrex (912286) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476428)

I know I'm probably just being silly, but I just feel the below needs to be stated anyway: How about they combine efforts to improve the current GPS system? In all seriousness, I know that the US military doesn't want to share secrets, but suppose instead of using two different systems, they were integrated. The EU could have hidden functions like the US military has in theirs, but when used uniformly, it simply boosts the current GPS's capabilities. That would benefit everyone, save EU from having to launch just as many satelites, and prevent the US military from having send more up there for reasons of lack of a decent signal. But I'm guessing the EU couldn't do this without US permission due to patent infringement?

Re:can't we all just get along? (2, Informative)

Plyschmannen (88190) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476555)

According to a newspaper I read (its swedish, sorry folks) http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=597&a=513 113&previousRenderType=2 [www.dn.se] the systems can work together. They pretty much said that twice the satelites means better coverage.

Another clip here: http://europa.eu.int/comm/dgs/energy_transport/gal ileo/international/cooperation_en.htm [eu.int]
"This includes, quite naturally, co-operation with the two countries now operating satellite navigation systems. Europe is already examining a number of technical issues with the United States related to interoperability and compatibility with the GPS system. The objective is to ensure that everyone will be able to use both GPS and GALILEO signals with a single receiver. Negotiations on co-operation scenarios with the Russian Federation, which has valuable experience in the development and operation of its GLONASS system, are also ongoing."

Also, from http://europa.eu.int/comm/dgs/energy_transport/gal ileo/international/global_en.htm [eu.int] :
"Once again, the GALILEO system will be fully compatible with the existing American GPS system. The objective being pursued by Europe is to reinforce the satellite navigation infrastructure by providing an additional, state-of-the-art system ensuring a more robust, precise and continuous service to users worldwide."

So basicly, they will not compete, more like complement each other.

Re:can't we all just get along? (1)

10Ghz (453478) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476559)

Would USA be willing to let EU control the GPS-system? No? Then why should EU be content with letting USA control a key piece of technology?

Piss and moan.... (4, Insightful)

Savage-Rabbit (308260) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476438)

At a cost of over $4 Billion, is this system really going to offer any major advantages over GPS, or is it merely a politicised 'anything you can do we can do better' by the European Space Agency?"

What the hell is news of a new satilite navigation system passing it's first tests doing in the Politics section? Competition does not hurt, the lack of it does. Doing something better than the competition and never tolerating monopoly, Isn't that in the best traditions of a modern market economy? I cannot for the life of me imagine why it should be in our interest to allow the US-Military to monopolize the satilite navigation business. Please let's not turn this into another US vs. Europe pissing contest...

Fucking moron flamebait (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476445)

Why include such idiocy in the story? One very obvious advantage over GPS that is stated in the fucking article is that the USA reserves the right to switch GPS off. And, with ten seconds over at Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] , you could find out that Galileo has a much better resolution than GPS. So mod entire story as -1, Flamebait - because there's no -5, Fucking Idiot At The Wheel option.

Short answer: "YES" (2, Informative)

mi (197448) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476448)

or is it merely a politicised 'anything you can do we can do better' by the European Space Agency?
The short answer is: "Yes, is". The longer answer is, the new system promises more precision and guarantees of the navigation quality. Both of these would be much easier to achieve withing the GPS' framework, but providing credible competition is usually the best way to shove almost any service provider into improving their offering.

When the provider is US Government, it may be the only way... Still, there is no reason for Galileo to be incompatible with the existing GPS clients, that's just evil...

Re:Short answer: "YES" (2, Informative)

denominateur (194939) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476462)

When the provider is US Government, it may be the only way... Still, there is no reason for Galileo to be incompatible with the existing GPS clients, that's just evil...

it's fully compatible as it uses both its own and the GPS protocol

Re:Short answer: "YES" (2, Interesting)

mi (197448) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476483)

it's fully compatible as it uses both its own and the GPS protocol
Is it? I recall reading somewhere, that it was not going to be. Still, one has to wonder, whether the compatibility will be of the infamous "embrace and extend" kind...

Politics? (4, Funny)

zardo (829127) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476449)

Why was this categorized as politics? So that we could all argue who is better, Europe or the U.S?

Had this been put in the proper category, like Hardware or Science, I'd say: Great, maybe I could get 10cm accuracy with this, GPS and GPRS combined.

But since it's politics we're discussing here, I say: how long before France, Germany and the U.K. start argueing over trivial issues. This whole European Union thing is too de-centralized, it's only a matter of time before it's torn apart.

Re:Politics? (5, Insightful)

WhiteWolf666 (145211) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476643)

...France, Germany and the U.K. start argueing over trivial issues.

Trivial issues, you mean like theEuropean Constitution [dw-world.de] or farm subsidies [bbc.co.uk] , which are a substantial portion of the EU's budget?

The EU has been arguing over very, very substantial issues for a long time. The question is whether or not the Union will survive them. My money used to be on no, and is slowly moving towards yes. This is mainly because I believe integration will slow down; we'll have a European identity, and a great deal of cooperation, but I do not think Europe will ever become a superstate.

Personally, I think that's a good thing.

Shoot it down (-1, Flamebait)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476450)

That will show the EU who is in charge around here.

They dont need GPS.

Round 2 (1)

slashbob22 (918040) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476466)

I am sure that this project has many advantages over GPS. While my quick Googling couldn't turn up an article, I believe that I have heard before that the current GPS system is not very redundant. The current satellites up there cannot be replaced, and the loss of a very small number of satellites would cause the entire system to go down. Extensibility and the lifespan of the Galileo project may be one of the more important issues.

If someone has more information on this GPS issue, I wouldnt mind having a refresh on it. Link please?

A new low for /. (4, Interesting)

quax (19371) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476467)

Now the wording of an article already tries to whip up nationalistic frenzy. What happened to this site? Am I the only one who remembers that /. used to be about cool open source technology? Technology that brings us together across all borders rather than drive us apart.

Re:A new low for /. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476650)

You're not the only one. I'm very sad about this development too.

Slashdot really gets more and more nationalistic/jingoistic.

I wonder if the editors simply do it for the page-impressions or if they too are victims of this nationalism virus.

Its been discussed before (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476470)

And it wasent even two months ago...
GPS costs money, so why should EU companies pay to US, and not to the ESA ?
Galiello is never, and more accurate

And as always, its better to have your on than to use the neighbours.

Doesn't anybody remember... (2, Interesting)

peipas (809350) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476473)

Doesn't anybody remember that our GPS system is on the brink of failure [slashdot.org] ? Who knows, maybe soon we'll be borrowing their system!

is it merely a politicised (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476477)

Yes it is. The US has proven to be a unpredictable, unreliable partner in international politics. As long as substantial infrastructure is in those hands the world has to care. GPS, ICANN etc ...

Before complaining start paying your UN debts.

Flo

UN Debt (1)

david.emery (127135) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476661)

What percentage of the UN funding is provided by the European Community? What percentage is provided by the US?

        dave

p.s. I bet the Iranians are really scared of the European Community's threat to tell the UN on them...

Concept (4, Insightful)

RomulusNR (29439) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476504)

You know, any geek worth his salt has heard of the importance of redundancy in a high-dependency system.

Re:Concept (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14476626)

Thank you. If I had mod points, I'd mod you +5 redundant

grammar matters (2, Insightful)

ChrisCampbell47 (181542) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476515)

Galileo ... has sent it's first signals to ground stations

Tilting at windmills, I know, but please see my sig. Grammar matters. The smart people you're supposedly trying to reach when you write are tuning out and moving on when you make errors as basic as its vs. it's.

The Jamming Issues (4, Interesting)

Daneboy (315359) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476543)

People mention the "jamming issues" -- here's the scoop... GPS transmits signals intended for both cilivian and military use, in distinct frequency ranges. The military one is encrypted and can (theoretically) thus only be used by the US military and its friends. In a war zone, the US military can "jam" the civilian bands while leaving the military signal intact, which from a military perspective is a Good Thing.

The originally proposed Galileo design was such that the frequency range used by Galileo's equivalent to the US civilian signal overlapped the GPS military one. Thus, if the US wanted to jam or block Galileo's civilian signal, it would also have to jam the GPS military one -- which (to the US military) is a Bad Thing.

I don't know if/how this situation was resolved. Anyone?

Oh please (4, Interesting)

Edmund Blackadder (559735) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476553)

Slashdot should really not post simple minded flame-bait like this:

"At a cost of over $4 Billion, is this system really going to offer any major advantages over GPS, or is it merely a politicised 'anything you can do we can do better' by the European Space Agency?"

Yeah the system will offer major advantages and they are the following:

It will work when the the US decides to turn off, or disrupt the GPS. The US has never promised that it will always keep the GPS working, and why should they -- we paid for it with our tax money and the US government will always turn it off or disrupt its operation when suitable for American interests.

For example, the civilian GPS has signal has an intentionally added error in order to prevent it from being used for military purposes. Also, the civilian GPS signal gets further disrupted over war zones (such as iraq) to make it especially useless for anyone that is not the US military. Apparently, the military uses another GPS signal which is not useable by other parties.

And thats the reason why Russia already has their own alternative GPS system in place and the Europeans are building their own. It seems pretty reasonable to me.

Advantage? (1)

Swampfeet (758961) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476598)



Not being run by the U.S.?

The eurotrash will no longer be subject to a petulant U.S. administration cutting off their navigational aids on a whim - that's a pretty big advantage from their perspective, I think.

It should be noted... (2, Interesting)

richdun (672214) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476604)

...that having one satellite in orbit does little if anything for you, even if it is just a test sat. You need multiple satellites to do any real navigation, since only with multiple fixes can you eliminate errors in tracking, not to mention what you get when the satellite is on the other side of the world. This is a good sign, but it's just a test sat, and only one, so let's not get too excited just yet. Jules Verne (another ESA project, for the ISS) has been due for a long time, and was late even before Columbia.

Also, while Galileo receivers in general may be more accurate than, say, the GPS receiver in your PDA, high-grade GPS receivers used in military and commerical research applications can get centimeter or finer resolution - and that's with the current generation of GPS sats. There are two new, next-generation GPS sats in orbit now, with the entire constellation to be replaced over the next few years. These new sats promised even better performance. Plus, the signal of GPS that was previously military-only was recently (past two or three years) opened for civilian use, so given time to produce new receivers, I don't think you'll see great accuracy differences between GPS and Galileo (unless of course the DoD decides we can't have GPS, but I think that's more the point here anyhow).

Once upon a time... (5, Funny)

sm284614 (946088) | more than 8 years ago | (#14476666)

My neighbour has a swimming pool which he says my friends or I can use any time we like (unless there's an emergency), but we're decided to put our money together and build our own swimming pool, which will be slightly better than his. For some reason he accused us of showing off when we told everyone about this, we just thought that it was best to have our own in case we're not always friends.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...