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Sex and the Modern MMOG

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the witty-titles-for-fun-and-profit dept.

Role Playing (Games) 87

My alma mater MMORPGDot has a review of the 'adults-only, subscription-based, independently-developed Sci-Fi Fantasy MMORPG set in London a hundred years from now'. It's a social MMOG, and one with more social options than you'll find in most commercial games. From the article: "Sex is not a mere role-playing concession in Sociolotron; it is a fully-baked and detailed gameplay mechanic. Players can engage in both consensual and forced sexual relations with other players and some NPCs- and believe it or not, sex serves a number of important purposes in the game. (Aside from the whole heir thing, the fluids that are exchanged and spilled during sexual encounters are critical components of some potions, and the game provides a variety of methods for collecting these substances.) Sex is really a sort of minigame in Socio, and before you utter the words 'Hot Coffee,' understand that this is no mere rhythm exercise. It's actually so complex a process that I'll only touch on a few details here."

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FIST SPORT! (1, Troll)

ringbarer (545020) | more than 8 years ago | (#14504918)

Everyone knows the skanky ho's on this game will be desperate lonely men.

May as well kill any worthless fucker signing up to this abomination and be done with it.

Relax, it's just another PR troll by Sociolotron (3, Informative)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 8 years ago | (#14507767)

I even considered the topic being worth debating when I first heard it, in the year 2000 or so. Even though it was full of hard to believe outlandish claims (e.g., that you could even perform non-consentual abortions and lob dead foetuses with a catapult; e.g., that the only way to respawn was to be re-born, for example by raping a woman and impregnating her; e.g., that they could support millions of players on a single machine, which no MMO ever could) and the game was every time in a "closed beta" so noone could check those claims, people got in a big debate about it.

Since then, oh looky, there comes again the regularly scheduled PR troll that has just one purpose: to get attention. Complete with yet another claim: this time that you need spilled sperm for potions. Well, gee, that ought to fix crafting.

If MMOs were forum posters, Sociolotron would be the troll/crapflooder posting goatse links in every thread. That's all there is to it. Nothing to see here.

And oh looky, this time a bit down in the thread we even have the ISO-standard astroturfing testimonial post about how lots of women play it (including the poster's wife supposedly), just waiting to be raped and abused, and getting a kick out of it. And no siree, there are no griefers on it, and (unlike what experience showed us on a hundred muds and a few MMOs), player justice really really works here this time. Honest. If that doesn't sound _exactly_ like the astroturfing ads-disguised-as-testimonials for "enlarge your penis" and "find a sex partner in your area" sites, you haven't read your spam mails lately.

So basically I wouldn't take it too seriously.

Then again, _if_ it finally went live, I wouldn't really kill the "worthless fucker signing up to this abomination", as you aptly put it. Think positively. If it gets at least _some_ of the worst retards that plague some other games, and keeps them busy there pretending to rape each other's female character (or ugly sprite thereof), it's a good thing.

Re:Relax, it's just another PR troll by Sociolotro (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14513858)

No, see, it's a 21+ adults-only game. That filters out 99% of the griefers.

Forced Sexual Relations (5, Insightful)

bateleur (814657) | more than 8 years ago | (#14504957)

Umm... doesn't "forced sexual relations" seem in rather poor taste ?

Or is the argument supposed to be that if you can have violence in games then it's fair play ? Ugh.

Re:Forced Sexual Relations (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14505083)

Umm... doesn't "forced sexual relations" seem in rather poor taste ?

Only if you've eaten asparagus recently.

Re:Forced Sexual Relations (4, Funny)

Idealius (688975) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505121)

I assumed that "forced sexual relations" was used to describe "rape" without having to use that word, but I also assumed that it would not be forced from a gameplay perspective.

After all, how would they keep the "consensual sex"-loving consumers if these customer keeps getting "raped" when they're trying to powerbone their friends to higher levels?

You assume wrong (3, Interesting)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505616)

Your avatar has certain stats. Depending on the stats you may loose control over your character. High level hookers cannot resist a job offer. Masochist will crumple in a fight. Seduction can be used to remove control in a nice way and rape in a not so nice way.

This is not "pure" roleplay, you really can be a rape victim within the game and there is nothing you can do about it EXCEPT in the same way that we stop it in real life. The game seems to record all actions and create crimes wich more moral players can solve.

This is an intresting way to do PvP. the most intresting chance however is not that they added the option of rape but that they really seem to try to create a player run justice system.

There would seem to be definite disadvantages to being a griefer in this game.

Re:Forced Sexual Relations (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | more than 8 years ago | (#14508868)

> I assumed that "forced sexual relations" was
> used to describe "rape" without having to use that word,

Similarly, many MMORPGs have "rogues" and "scoundrels" instead of lying, cheating, stealing, bastard thieves.

Don't wanna be seen as teachin' kids how fun and profitable it is to steal things, now is it? So you make the thief class anyway and call it "sugarlover" and hope no slimeball politician notices and tries to use it to their advantage.

Previously covered in Wired.com (1)

Supercrunch (797557) | more than 8 years ago | (#14514328)

Wired talked about virtual "rape" in Sociolotron [wired.com] (and whether in has any translation to the real world) back in June 2004.

Re:Forced Sexual Relations (1)

Capt'n Hector (650760) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505215)

If a game has violence and it has sex, why not the intersection of the two, sex AND violence?

Re:Forced Sexual Relations (3, Informative)

Kaimelar (121741) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505271)

From the Friendly Article:

Oh yeah, the game also features graphic interactive sex, rape, kidnapping, sadomasochism, burglary, substance addiction, pregnancy, abortion, sexually transmitted disease, permanent character death (complete with a playable afterlife in Hell), player corpse looting, and a bunch of other things you'll probably not find in any other recent game.

Seems like they're trying to make a dark, gritty game that some people would find in poor taste. And, it seems to me, a game that would allow griefers to cause all sorts of havoc. Of course, maybe that's the point . . .

Re:Forced Sexual Relations (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505554)

And murder isn't?
Yea I find the whole thing rather gross. Maybe some kind of strange Twilight Zone like karma system needs to be put into these games.

Re:Forced Sexual Relations (1)

Tyger (126248) | more than 8 years ago | (#14510491)

From the article and other players comments it sounds like they have it. Rape and murder are tracked and considered crimes, then other players can solve those crimes.

Re:Forced Sexual Relations (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 8 years ago | (#14512286)

Forget that other player crap I want digital wrath of God. I am talking if they do enough evil things like every time they hit something they do double damage to themselves.
I want Robot hell.

Re:Forced Sexual Relations (1)

cpu_fusion (705735) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505555)

Rape as an MMRPG game mechanic? I think that's incredibly poor taste.

Plus it gives Jack Thompson something else to shit himself about.

Damn now I have to condone virtual rape just for the gleeful joy of seeing Jack Thompson soil himself over something new.

Re:Forced Sexual Relations (1)

TriezGamer (861238) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505615)

Or, y'know, you could concede that despite Jack Thompson's rabid agenda, there might be some games that actually DO go a bit too far.

Re:Forced Sexual Relations (1)

Breakfast Pants (323698) | more than 8 years ago | (#14506705)

Too far, yes. Too far, as in illegal, or should be illegal? No.

Fuck Jack Thompson (3, Insightful)

Shihar (153932) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505646)

Fuck Jack Thompson. I am pretty damn sure that this game will strictly enforce 18+. Let the idiot try and bring this before a court and get violently smacked down.

Personally, I love the spat of video game laws that stupid state legislators have tried to pass. Each and every single one without exception has been struck down, and struck down hard. Each time one of these stupid laws are struck down, it just strengthens freedom of speech laws.

Nothing brings a smile to my face like politicians ramming their head violently against the first amendment and looking shocked and confused when it doesn't budge. I welcome this game the legislation that congressmen will attempt to bring about to stop it. It just makes it easier to see which representatives will grow the strength to stand up for the first amendment, and which are pathetic sniveling slime that refuse to take a stand that doesn't instantly sound good in a sound byte. It makes picking who I vote for all the easier.

Fuck'em.

Sure, just ask Jack Thompson (4, Insightful)

Alaren (682568) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505567)

Indeed, it is in rather poor taste. But at this end of the "gritty" spectrum, poor taste is pretty relative. I have met women who would rather die than endure the horror of rape; but then, I have met women who would rather die than lose their virginity. What's worse: killing someone, or defiling them?

Personally, at that level of degradation, I don't think there is much of a scale; rape, torture, murder, if you had to endure one which would you pick? But from the perspective of folks like the much-maligned (and rightly so, IMHO) Jack Thompson, things as bad or worse than rape are already present in a lot of games.

You ask, "...is the argument supposed to be that if you can have violence in games then it's fair play?" I think that's a fair statement. You have rape in movies, why not games? You depict child abuse in books, why not games? The line drawn by the Jack Thompson crowd these days is "It's different because games are interactive. You are the killer. You become the rapist." If you buy that line, it's just as applicable to killing as it is to rape.

Logically, interactive rape cannot be discussed as truly different than interactive killing. Forcible or consensual "virtual death" can only be as meaningful, or meaningless, as virtual sex, again forcible or consensual. It isn't real.

So. With all of this in mind, what can you say? Personally I say, play what you like, don't play what you don't like, and allow others the same opportunity. Even if you find it in poor taste, because free speech is funny like that. If you try to limit it according to your own tastes, it stops being free for everyone, including you.

Re:Sure, just ask Jack Thompson (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14505638)

rape, torture, murder, if you had to endure one which would you pick?

Reminds me of the old joke where captives have to make that choice. The second captive chooses death, and the response is "Death! But first..."

Murder vs. Rape (1)

bateleur (814657) | more than 8 years ago | (#14507729)

Logically, interactive rape cannot be discussed as truly different than interactive killing.

Certainly I see the argument, but I remain to be convinced. Combat and violence in games often provides the flavour/background for some mechanically interesting gameplay. Also, even in cases outside that category murder is either portrayed by NPCs or is in some way morally justified in the mind of the character you're controlling or is simply closer to comedy than drama.

I don't want to see stuff like rape scenes censored, but that doesn't mean I have to be comfortable with people wanting to be involved with that sort of thing. Your movies example is a good one: I might well appreciate the art of a film in which rape was depicted. However, it's very unlikely I'd appreciate a rape in a film which wasn't a necessary part of the story being told.

Companies don't do stuff like this for nothing. They expect it to be popular. I find it hard to view players in a positive light whose preference is for playing out interactive rapes.

Re:Murder vs. Rape (1)

CFTM (513264) | more than 8 years ago | (#14509598)

I'd much rather people carry this sort of behavior out in a virtual environment as opposed to a real one. My guess would be is that there will be a very tiny segment of population who will be adversly affected by a game like this but my belief in the first amendment supercede my need to be comfortable. Personally, I think there could be some fascinating personas to adapt in an environment like this.

Another point, this environment is an adult environment. It is not meant for kids, it is not a playground. It's a place where darker sides of humanity can be explored. Afterall, every single person who is posting on this board has a murderer/rapist/amoral type individual in their genetic past; it's required to survive at times.

Free speech becomes more important the more uncomfortable the speech becomes.

Re:Murder vs. Rape (1)

moondance1970 (947389) | more than 8 years ago | (#14515069)

Actually playing devil's advocate here. Rape is a known military tactic used in wars to discourage the population from openly ressiting the army coming. Germany was invaded in WW2 by russia with the russian soldiers given ORDERS to rape.

Re:Sure, just ask Jack Thompson (1)

bri2000 (931484) | more than 8 years ago | (#14508830)

You ask, "...is the argument supposed to be that if you can have violence in games then it's fair play?" I think that's a fair statement. You have rape in movies, why not games? You depict child abuse in books, why not games? The line drawn by the Jack Thompson crowd these days is "It's different because games are interactive. You are the killer. You become the rapist." If you buy that line, it's just as applicable to killing as it is to rape.

I think the point is that with games (and movies) which involve killing it's possible to construct stories which justify the killing (you're a soldier serving your country, a cop defending the innocent, a HazMat scientist with a crow bar etc). The vast majority of games, whatever Jack Thompson and others may think, do this. I'm finding it impossible to think of circumstances where a story can justify rape or torture without making you unambiguously the bad guy. You say that rape and child abuse are portrayed in movies and this is true to some extent but they are never portrayed in a positive light as something the hero would do (well duh!) whereas he or she can kill (if properly justified in story terms of course) without people objecting.

As for freedom of speech and double standards between games and movies I'm not sure that's true since in most western countries (and I believe this applies equally in the US, first amedment notwithstanding) ban pornographic movies which depict simulated rape, torture and murder. Given the new UK regulations on sexually abusive material viewed over the internet this game could actually be illegal here (depending on how it's been implemented).

Re:Sure, just ask Jack Thompson (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14510858)

You say that rape and child abuse are portrayed in movies and this is true to some extent but they are never portrayed in a positive light as something the hero would do

When I was in college (about 10 years ago) I talked with someone who had taken a class on writing romance novels. The class analyzed the genre's conventions, and came to some odd conclusions: it was OK to have the male love interest rape the female lead, but not to portray the heroine masturbating.

Re:Sure, just ask Jack Thompson (2, Insightful)

Drachemorder (549870) | more than 8 years ago | (#14509758)

In real life, I can envision situations where killing is acceptable. I can't imagine any situation at all in which rape or child abuse is acceptable. So there's clearly a difference in real life, and I think there should be one in games as well. If you play as a hero killing the minions of an evil dictator bent on taking over the world, that seems to be a case of justifiable violence. However, there's simply no possible justification for rape, even in a fictional context.

Killing Versus Murder (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14511214)

You make a compelling point, but you might consider that morally speaking, killing is to murder what sex is to rape. And although the "simulated killing" and "simulated murder" are probably not delineated sufficiently in previous posts, I think the difference validates the point.

Re:Sure, just ask Jack Thompson (1)

Tyger (126248) | more than 8 years ago | (#14510452)

Not a direct reply to your comment, but you mentioned Jack Thompson. If you believe his recent mostly level headed interview, he would not have any reason to go against this game, because it isn't being marketed to minors, and you have to be 21 to join.

Re:Sure, just ask Jack Thompson (1)

Kasis (918962) | more than 8 years ago | (#14510792)

Jack puts on his "I'm a reasonable man" hat for interviews with the mainstream media (for the most part).

If you check out some of the comments he posts on various websites, his position is unclear. The most common assertion is that all gamers are stupid, lazy sociopaths, generally on drugs. He claims to only want to legislate the sale of games to minors, but has frequently been known to push for an outright ban on certain types of game.

Check out gamepolitics.com where Jack has become a frequently-posting troll. Every day brings new insults against the entire gaming demographic.

So no, I'm afraid I don't believe his most recent interview. :-)

Re:Sure, just ask Jack Thompson (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 8 years ago | (#14512667)

Jack puts on his "I'm a reasonable man" hat for interviews with the mainstream media (for the most part).

Netjak isn't in the mainstream media. In fact, it's precisely the type of website that Jack Thompson trolls.

His interview was still full of shit, though.

Rob

Re:Sure, just ask Jack Thompson (1)

Kasis (918962) | more than 8 years ago | (#14528132)

I stand corrected :) I've since checked out the site you mentioned, you're right. Looks like exactly the kind of outlet he'd pick a fight with.

Re:Sure, just ask Jack Thompson (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 8 years ago | (#14510543)

What's worse: killing someone, or defiling them?

This is a pretty black and white question. Clearly people who would chose death over {insert your least-favorite non-consentual sexual act here} have some level of the same type of psychological issues that people who choose to commit suicide have. Sure {your least-favorite non-consentual sex act} is really, really terrible, but think about it... Could anybody ever have a rational conversation with you where at the end you would say "No, you're right, your life sucks so much you should kill yourself", other than perhaps somebody who is terminally ill already?

Re:Sure, just ask Jack Thompson (1)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 8 years ago | (#14512392)

Could anybody ever have a rational conversation with you where at the end you would say "No, you're right, your life sucks so much you should kill yourself", other than perhaps somebody who is terminally ill already?

That depends. How long until they respawn?

Re:Sure, just ask Jack Thompson (1)

catahoula10 (944094) | more than 8 years ago | (#14511067)

"Logically, interactive rape cannot be discussed as truly different than interactive killing. Forcible or consensual "virtual death" can only be as meaningful, or meaningless, as virtual sex, again forcible or consensual.

I do not see logic in this stetement at all. Because the context of killing is usually in a war setting or a good-guy bad-guy setting. But, what setting can you possibly pick that marginally justifies rape? At least in a combat game, or in a cops-n-robber game, the violence is somewhat justified and therefore allows the easy exit from supension of disbelief.

It isn't real."

Maybe not real to most. But children and many young adults have trouble with breaking suspension of disbelief. Some can get very adsorbed in playing the game to the point that they become the character. While many young people objectivly know that rape is wrong, subjectivly, rape becomes o.k in the game to them. Because the objective truth that rape is wrong becomes elevated to the status of a lie, making rape o.k.

Re:Sure, just ask Jack Thompson (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14511300)

First, keep in mind that there is a difference between killing and murder--kind of like the difference between sex and rape--but both killing and murder appear in multiple video games.

Second, the "justified violence" is a bit of a misnomer. Culturally, we tend to accept that "killing the bad guys" in a war is more noble than murdering innocents in cold blood. But psychologically, the army spends a lot of time drilling into soldiers' heads that killing is okay, because when you kill someone, it tends to affect you mentally whether you were justified or not. In war--real war, not usually simulated war--there are also hundreds and thousands of civilian casualties. In this respect, war games actually fail to depict "the real consequences of your actions" in the same way GTA-style games supposedly fail to depict the negative consequences of murder.

"While many young people objectivly know that rape is wrong, subjectivly, rape becomes o.k in the game to them. Because the objective truth that rape is wrong becomes elevated to the status of a lie, making rape o.k."

This is an unfortunate meme. Children are no more or less likely to imitate simulated rape in real life than they are to imitate simulated murder in real life. Which is to say, some mentally disturbed individuals might, but they in all likelihood were already guilty of antisocial or psychotic behavior. Sure, don't let your four-year-old play the game, but that doesn't really seem to be the issue.

Re:Sure, just ask Jack Thompson (1)

xtieburn (906792) | more than 8 years ago | (#14512802)

'Maybe not real to most. But children and many young adults have trouble with breaking suspension of disbelief.'

If you cant tell the difference between real and not real by the age of 21 you have bigger issues than doing terrible things in computer games.

Re:Sure, just ask Jack Thompson (1)

catahoula10 (944094) | more than 8 years ago | (#14514509)

So you believe that only those 21 and older are playing these games?

Re:Sure, just ask Jack Thompson (1)

xtieburn (906792) | more than 8 years ago | (#14522174)

Well the method of payment for sociolotron pretty much restricts to 18.
I think my post can still apply.

Otherwise a kid would have to have a parent sign them up (I dont even want to think of how screwed up a parent would have to be to sign up a kid to a game where they can be raped.) or theyd have to nick a card from someone else and you cant exactly blame Sociolotron for the way a child has been raised.

I dont particularly agree with this game, I do think it goes to far, for similar reasons to the ones you posted. That is why I will not be signing up for it and why I hope no one else will either. Beyond that, even if I had the power to do so, I wouldnt do anything to bring the game down or censor it.

Re:Forced Sexual Relations (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14508916)

So lopping off a fellow player's head is fine, but rape is in poor taste? I'm not saying I approve of either in real life, but in games I'd think they'd be equally offensive.

Re:Forced Sexual Relations (1)

Jakeypants (860350) | more than 8 years ago | (#14510392)

Is it safe to assume that only male players can commit a rape, or is it possible for female characters to rape the other players?

So Many Options (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14504994)

It's actually so complex a process that I'll only touch on a few details here

So Many Options to make fun of Zoink

Re:So Many Options (1)

cjb909 (838363) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505161)

So Many Options to make fun of Zoink

And only one option to make fun of you.

Great... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14505020)

Now you can have sex with fat nerdy GUYS pretending to be females...
Score: -1 Redundant

It was only a matter of time... (5, Funny)

Meph_the_Balrog (796101) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505040)

So I guess the only appropriate question is, when will it support a force feedback "joystick"?

Re:It was only a matter of time... (1)

zaroastra (676615) | more than 8 years ago | (#14508436)

They are planing support of the FUFME drive http://www.fu-fme.com/ [fu-fme.com] .
For now you just have to play with one hand, and use the other for a more realistic experience :)

Forced sex? (5, Funny)

Kawolski (939414) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505082)

Great, so now when I get ganked, mugged and PKed, my beaten corpse can get raped too?

WTB Assblocker 3000 PST.

Re:Forced sex? (1)

Rodyland (947093) | more than 8 years ago | (#14506776)

Not to mention the obligatory teabagging.

and will eat your corpse when they are done (1)

aka_big_wurm (757512) | more than 8 years ago | (#14508786)

The kids that play WOW and gank all day will love that

we don't need no stinking content (1)

aapold (753705) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505095)

The players will create it for us. Its the same kind of sandbox approach I that fills me with disdain in some other notable "games".

I'll give them credit for having a hook, but at this point it would seem they need to focus as much as possible on that hook. And for this kind of thing I think there are plenty of text-based MUDs that already do this pretty well... (shrug). A coup getting a story on /., probably get enough activity to justify its existance from that.

The review reads like sophistry, as the verdict was decided in advance and most of it was an exercise in financing what had been already decided.

Geeksex (4, Funny)

Eightyford (893696) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505097)

Now the geeks can see what they've been missing all these years. Level Up! Dildo Upgraded! 50 Pts!

fluids (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14505258)

You know having sex in a MMO is interesting and could ad a bit to character interactions (now having a wife in a game may actually mean something)> having forced sexual relation may be in poor taste, but I honestly don't see it that much worse then PKing. The thing that I am having a problem with is:

"the fluids that are exchanged and spilled during sexual encounters are critical components of some potions"

That is just getting nasty.

---

Healer: Oh shoot! Leroy is getting low on life.

Healer: Quick get me some components so I can make a potion!

Group: Fap fap fap

It gets better (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505580)

While the fact that female player characters who join the demon cult can produce healing milk is just a bit kinky the game also has a use for aborted fetusses. A virgin fetus (first fetus of a woman) is a valuable ingredient for some magic according to the manual.

3....2.....1 Ah hello Jack Thompson.

Re:fluids (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14505784)

Damn, now I can just imagine Leeroy Jenkins having sex and shouting out his name while having an orgasm.

Re:fluids (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14508605)

I tried that once. My girlfriend thought I was calling her by some man's name. I'm playing twice as much WoW these days.

The Rhythm Made Me Do It (3, Funny)

Doomstalk (629173) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505418)

understand that this is no mere rhythm exercise.

Everyone knows that the rhythm method doesn't work anyway.

Re:The Rhythm Made Me Do It (4, Funny)

Sylver Dragon (445237) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505495)

Question: What do you call people using the rythm method?

Answer: Parents.

Honesty, is anyone surprised? (4, Informative)

bluemeep (669505) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505484)

Sex has been present almost as long as online games have been running. It's been the focus of dozens of MUDs, can be witnessed in errant /emotes in out of the way zones in current commercial MMOs and I personally know three people that worked in brothels in Rhydin, the freeform chat room based RP system that ran amok on AOL.

This is just the first time someone bothered to give it graphics. And possibly the first time you were charged for the privledge, but I'd have to check my facts on that one...

You may return to your "robe and wizard hat" quips now.

Re:Honestly, is anyone surprised? (2, Interesting)

marshallh (947020) | more than 8 years ago | (#14506205)

You may be right in that sex has existed in MUDs to an extent - but are they easy to access for younger teenage boys? This is where I see the game's downfall.

Anyone feel like playing a game overrun by hormonally supercharged teenagers? I suppose detailed graphics and potentially quick notoriety won't really support this game well, but I may probably be proved wrong.

Just imagine how bad their typing will be... it's already bad enough but then you add the fact that they're typing it one handed and probably with quite a good deal of physical movement on their part. Ghastly!

Re:Honestly, is anyone surprised? (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | more than 8 years ago | (#14508910)

I recall an article about 10 years ago (at least) where people discussed text-based MUDs (which was all there was at that time), one of which had mechanics such that people could be "virtually raped". Or maybe someone was just being creative with /emote, who knows?

Re:Honestly, is anyone surprised? (1)

Pluvius (734915) | more than 8 years ago | (#14512817)

That article [ludd.luth.se] is widely regarded by people who have actually played MUDs to be completely stupid and off-base because a "rape victim" can simply log off, walk out of the room, or /ignore. And yes, it was basically "someone being creative with /emote."

Rob

Re:Honestly, is anyone surprised? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14525377)

@set me=nospoof and STFU

Conspiracy theory... (1)

Wilson_6500 (896824) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505633)

Do you ever wonder if there's some player out there with lots of money and little sense, a figure or group that so hates video games that they go out of their way to fund or publish or otherwise create and promote games that make even real _gamers_ cringe?

Sex game devs have potential... (1)

Stalli0n (921471) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505729)

if they can harness the power of three dimensions...

I put on my robe and wizard hat.... *nt* (5, Funny)

Strell (877448) | more than 8 years ago | (#14505878)

*nt*

Re:I put on my robe and wizard hat.... *nt* (2, Informative)

MyDixieWrecked (548719) | more than 8 years ago | (#14507038)

bash.org rules. you should be mod'd up. =P

for those of you not in the know... check it. [bash.org]

As someone who participated in the beta... (5, Informative)

garylian (870843) | more than 8 years ago | (#14506020)

I participated in the beta on 2 different occasions over the course of 4 years, each for a month or so at a time. It was a lark, and my wife thought some of it was hysterical. Honestly, she could watch me play and just laugh. If any of you read "The Sports Guy", Bill Simmons on ESPN.com, you have heard of his Unintentional Comedy Index, or UCI. This game is off the charts. I don't think the game maker nor the players intend for it to be funny, but if you could just be a fly on the wall during "encounters", you'd be rolling in the aisles. In the end, while it was almost morbidly fascinating, I stopped doing the beta each time.

Yes, it was very much suspected that most of the female characters were played by men. It would certainly explain why most female characters role-played being lesbians who loved anal sex. Plus, all the female and male bodies are exactly the same, and the male sex organs are hugely out of porportions to the bodies. You can really tell a man designed everything.

This is supposed to be a MMORPG, but there is little combat and little challenge in the game, overall. It is purely a social game that has combat to taunt people into believing it is a MMORPG. PvP is not something you can turn off after a certain "level" of ability. And, you don't just get killed, but can be raped and then killed. Many "women" takled about the insane amount of fear and adrenalin rush they got when they were kidnapped, raped, and then killed. It was very real to them, as their character was rendered completely helpless.

The game does (or did when I quit the 2nd time) feature PermaDeath as the rule for once you get out of your newbie shoes. You can have children, though, and you or your partner can use that child to be reborn when you are PermaDeathed.

The sex itself... C'mon, that is why you are reading this, right? Don't lie, you pervert! Zip up your pants and read, then!

The sex itself is pathetic. While they give motions and actions you can do, it is mostly poor text (the mispellings are hideous) that drives this show. It is very easy to have 2 characters supposedly going at it, and the guy is laying 2 feet to the left of the girl, but they are both humping air furiously, and the game tells you he is inside her. Many actions require one person to allow the other person to take hold of them. Trust the wrong person, and once that happens, you could be dead.

Roleplaying is a necessity, but the level of the players in the beta was pretty horrible. Most of the male characters were merely sperm donors, and added nothing to their partner's enjoyment by using creative words to enhance the "event". Male characters that could actually type and make it seem more real became sought after. Female characters (probably played mostly by men who had a gift to being descriptive) were usually better at it, but some of them were just as inept.

Character classes are pretty stupid, with not much to offer roleplay opportunities. The exceptions were the Succubi, and the Inquisitors. Succubi had to harvest sperm, and usually harvested it from their own bodies. However, to harvest it, they had to make themsleves immobile, and therefor easy to be killed if anywhere close to public. Inquisitors had to kill sinners, and mostly took on the prostitues that wander about (and are your only real source of combat for the early stages of the game.) They kill them by cutting their heart out.

The beta was constantly plagued by griefers, who were often allowed to carry on, because it was within the design of the game. You want to serially rape and kill female characters, because that is who your character is? Go right ahead! More power to you! And if they catch you and kill you, don't complain. The problem is, these folks took to being a griefer the way a powergamer took to WoW for the first month. They boost characters up fast, and make themselves almost impervious to one-on-one situations. They break into private places looking for toons that are AFK, or not doing anything special, and then drag them off somewhere and kill them. And the load time between zones is bad enough that if they have a really good connection, you can't even get a /tell in to call for help. It certainly won't arrive in time. The only safety was in staying in a group.

The game geography is bad. Zones take about 15 seconds to cross tops, and you can auto-path your way to exits/entrances. The graphics were bad enough that on a 19" flat screen, I couldn't see all of a room, unless it was only a bathroom. This made preying on others easy at times, and made it really easy to get lost trying to follow someone. The graphics were similar to the UO style of 3rd person near 2D design. Nothing worth seeing, surely. Moving from one zone to another to another to get to something normal took forever, when it shouldn't have. Clearly, the design was based on very small node-like zones, to conserve bandwidth. As clunky as it was (with my max FPS of 21 on a 3.4GHz P4 with 1GB RAM and nVidia GeForce 6800), I can't imagine it is any better at release.

I can't believe the game designer (PlayerDark) went "gold" when he did, and I really can't believe anyone would pay for it. Most of the players, near the end of beta, were leaving for Second Life, where you can buy tattoos so you can have nipples and/or a vagina (the models don't) and create new sex acts to play with.

Now, come on. Someone else has to admit to playing this. There were darn sure enough folks in the game!

Re:As someone who participated in the beta... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14509076)

Bill Simmons is a god!

Re:As someone who participated in the beta... (4, Insightful)

Tyger (126248) | more than 8 years ago | (#14510372)

I'm not going to comment on most your post (Having little knowledge in the game) but I take issue with:

It is purely a social game that has combat to taunt people into believing it is a MMORPG.

What do you think MMORPG means? "Massively Multiplayer Combat Game"? Traditionally most MMORPGs have been combat because it's the easiest to do, and most computer RPGs involve combat. But there is nothing that says MMORPG must be combat. Computer RPGs are about story and character development and, well, playing a role. I don't see this game as any different. And it's not like it's the first non combat MMORPG. There have been many others, including the likes of Club Caribe (Technically not a MMORPG only because the term didn't exist then), Second Life and The Sims Online.

Re:As someone who participated in the beta... (1)

garylian (870843) | more than 8 years ago | (#14511703)

Since you didn't play the game, and your only knowledge of the game is from the article and my review, you are making a valid arguement without knowing why I said what I did. Traditionally, *almost* all MMORPGs have revolved around combat.

Sociolotron advertised combat, magic, and PvP as part of their MMORPG experience, along with sex play. But the combat stuff was so poorly implemented, that it was clerly used as a teaser to get more people to play the game than probably would have, especially early in the beta. PlayerDark advertised in some alt.binaries.pictues.* newsgroups looking for people to participate, and his post CLEARLY indicated that combat was a vital part of the game. The forums and website indicated it was an important part. It never was. Almost all revenue and experience comes from harvesting raw materials, and maybe protecting yourself from the wimpy mobs that are sometimes in the area. Exicitement? No.

Second Life and The Sims Onlie are called MMORPGs, but they aren't ones in the classic sense of the term. Are they both Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games? Yes.

Some websites, like betawatcher [betawatcher.com] have even started to use MMOFPS and MMORTS in addition to the normal MMORPG term to differentiate. I suspect they will soon coin MMOSIM for games like Second Life and The Sims Online. They really are life simulators, instead of a classic MMORPG.

So, take exception. When someone says MMORPG, people think of games like UO, EQ, WoW, CoH/V, AC, and the like. They don't think Sims Online, Second Life, or Sociolotron.

I'm not saying you are wrong. Your point is valid. I think you are nitpicking a trivial matter, though.

Re:As someone who participated in the beta... (1)

Tyger (126248) | more than 8 years ago | (#14517359)

Personally I think MMORPG is more fitting term for those games than what you call "classic MMORPG". In fact I've seen the opposite trend, people dropping the RP from games that really don't have any and just calling them "MMOG". Of course it hasn't stuck yet.

I still stand by my point though. I get what you are saying about combat, and got that from the article too, but I still disagree that makes it any less a MMORPG.

The graphics (1)

Corbu Mulak (931063) | more than 8 years ago | (#14506092)

look like UO's "3D" upgrade's graphics. Honestly, if they had a free trial I would play it.

Forced sexual relations in an RPG? (1)

i8urtaco (663163) | more than 8 years ago | (#14506399)

If this isn't the perfect oportunity for a desperate 25th level Cleric to conjure up a potion of rohypnol, I don't know what is.

One good reason for this game to exist... (2, Interesting)

Sathias (884801) | more than 8 years ago | (#14506652)

Any game that keeps any sort of number of perverted, griefing, wanna-be rapists out of my chosen game is definately a good thing.

Responses are proof... (3, Insightful)

Taulin (569009) | more than 8 years ago | (#14507215)

Just look at the responses and posts in this thread. Only one was really informative about the game or subject so far. The rest make jests and jokes about the subject of sex in games. The reason adult content is not found in the US more often is because market research finds these kinds of remarks...giggles, pointed fingers...much like school children who find a torn page of a Playboy issue on the school yard. I for one would love to see sex introduced more in games. While this game seems to revolve around it too much, as a play mechanic, it adds to what we have now. Do you think being able to have sex in games would degrade the game to the point where everyone would be doing it everywhere? If so, what does that say about society? Maybe game rules should enforce sex like real life,ie no public nudity, etc. My point is, until you 'gamers' grow up a bit, this aspect of games will not.

Re:Responses are proof... (1)

kamapuaa (555446) | more than 8 years ago | (#14507400)

What do you want, lengthy and much-considered essays on a stupid game almost nobody here has played? The subject isn't worth anything more than the lame quips it's recieving.

Re:Responses are proof... (4, Insightful)

Walkiry (698192) | more than 8 years ago | (#14507942)

>The rest make jests and jokes about the subject of sex in games.

That's because the implementation of sex in games not only leaves much to be desired, but also we've got accustomed to game developers using boobies to sell a poorly implemented, boring and not very imaginative game. The jests made in the responses pointed to this, and surprise surprise, when someone who knew about the game and had played it answered, it confirmed everything we suspected about it *shocked*.

The idea may or may not be worth discussing but it seems like, as we all expected, the implementation sucked, the game was technically a piece of crap, and the design of the "game" part was poorly thought out and weakly executed. This game, like many others before it, attempts to use outrageous claims about the fantastic sex stuff you can find inside to sell you a turd, and they didn't even bother to polish it.

So no, we don't have to "grow up", the game designers have to start thinking about actually making compelling games, sex and all, instead of making a piece of shit and throwing in some jugs hoping the hormonally charged teenagers will flock to it. Because so far that's all they do with "sex in games". Then, and only then, they'll get a less cynical and jaded response.

Re:Responses are proof... (1)

xtieburn (906792) | more than 8 years ago | (#14512958)

Im not entirely sure, but you seem to be typing as if the people playing these games are different to the people watching movies with sex scenes.

They of course arnt and when a movie sex scene is portrayed as a valid piece of the film. (Off the top of my head Sarah Connor and Reece in Terminator.) No one was there giggling and pointing at the fact that you caught a glimpse of a boob. If games portray the subject with as much validity and maturity as that then it wont degrade it.

'Do you think being able to have sex in games would degrade the game to the point where everyone would be doing it everywhere?'
Probably. Sex is not only great fun, it is, more or less, all we are built to do.

'If so, what does that say about society?'
Between me and my friends in computer games we have slaughtered ooooh about 10 times the population of this planet. A good chunk were perfectly innocent people who we killed because it was hilariously funny. (Oh Carmageddon two will you ever stop bringing me to tears of laughter with your wacky slaughterfest.) What does _that_ say about society?
Oh thats right. Nothing much at all.

Wither The Industry? (2, Funny)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | more than 8 years ago | (#14508111)

Where now is the industry that entertained many's the geek as a lad?

Is it reduced to this? A trenchcoated toilet trader passing out favours for nine pence an hour?

Is this evolution, or devolution? Only one thing is certain. The game will suck....Oh wait.

PKing vs rape (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14509674)

Just to add to the discussions of the relative evils of PKing, and avatar rape, the essay "A Rape in Cyberspace" by Julian Dibbell is interesting reading for the effect avatar rape can have:

http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/0543,50thdibb ell,69273,31.html [villagevoice.com]

Not necessarily a good thing (1)

Xugumad (39311) | more than 8 years ago | (#14509822)

"Sex is not a mere role-playing concession in Sociolotron; it is a fully-baked and detailed gameplay mechanic."

Does this sound like a really bad idea to anyone else? Reminds me worryingly of F.A.T.A.L. [fatalgames.com] (which is an abomination, IMHO).

Consider, why does the game need a gameplay mechanic for sex? Answer, because the outcome is important ("the fluids that are exchanged and spilled during sexual encounters are critical components of some potions") - at that point, I think the game is moving beyond not avoiding sex, and into becoming conceringly focused on it.

I'm sure this has a market, and they're welcome to it, but I wouldn't consider this "Sex and the Modern MMOG", I'd consider it "Sex-orientated MMOG".

As a former beta tester and current paying player (2, Interesting)

sn0w0wl (947267) | more than 8 years ago | (#14510737)

I've been playing Socio for almost a year now...I joined the game near the end of the beta phase because of an article I read in Sync and I have to say I absolutely love it! I'm a female in my 30's and I've played both female AND male characters...I love the idea of a game that lets me live my fantasies and explore the darker side of my personality....yes, you can be raped...I have been several times...even had a child by one rapist...I've performed abortions on myself and know of other who were attacked, chained and had forced abortions performed before they were ko'd and all of their possessions stolen....thing is that it's all part of the game....that's the way it's supposed to be but that doesn't mean it happens everytime you walk out of your door....if the act is roleplayed well then even a rape or kidnapping can be fun and interesting... There's such a variety of things to do....harvesting, killing npc's, quests, skilling, rape, sex, marriage, theft, murdering pc's, cults, etc. etc.....the socialization is the best...hanging out in the bar and chatting with everyone is great! Currently I'm a stripper-in-training one of the bars in the city I live in....also a sub in search of the perfect master.... So if any of you who piss and moan about the game without ever having explored it want to give it a try, you can look me up....just call Droxine Cloudminder for a good time!

Re:As a former beta tester and current paying play (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14511162)

One of the most disturbing posts ever.

Re:As a former beta tester and current paying play (1)

sn0w0wl (947267) | more than 8 years ago | (#14517156)

why? because I can admit an interest in exploring a darker side of fantasy? I think it's great that there's a place where you can do that outside of a real life situation....you can do anything you want (for the most part)...of course for some actions there are penalties...committing a "crime" (murder, rape, assault, etc.) does have the risk of going to jail but then you can try to escape without getting pk'd by the auto guns and sent to hell.... It's a much better vacation from reality than Everquest or TSO are....

Re:As a former beta tester and current paying play (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14517703)

This is Slashdot, a semi-tech and very narrow-minded peer-group site, not a libertarian forum.

Don't expect them to understand (let alone support) the concepts of "live and let live" or "each to their own". They complain about Jack Thompson's myopia, yet they're just as myopic.

Don't worry about it, live your own life.

Re:As a former beta tester and current paying play (1)

Phil the Canuck (208725) | more than 8 years ago | (#14512419)

Hear that bang? I think it was Jack Thompson's head exploding.

Think about the parents (1)

gutnor (872759) | more than 8 years ago | (#14512729)

Yes, think about the parents ...

to their teenager kids: 'No, you cannot install a script from an untrusted source that increase your e-penis by 10 pixel ...'

or during the mandotory 2 days their must show interest in their kids' brand new XBox 720:

'Hey mum, look, if I fscked the sylvan elf and mix her vaginal fluid with the one of the troll I rape yesterday I can get a 'Pant of Love' + 5'

 

easily apalled, nerds are (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14513446)

ironically
the review in question was quite accurate
none of the comments were - save one or two (is this where you all try to compensate for your insecurities?)
5 lines is all this venomous self important gang of touch typing baboons deserves
peace
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