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Next World Of Warcraft Raid Dungeon

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the paladins-mount-up dept.

Role Playing (Games) 281

GrandGranini writes "The New York Times has an interview with World Of Warcraft Lead Game Designer Jeff Kaplan (Tigole), in which he talks about the next raid dungeon after Ahn'Quiraj, the necropolis Naxxramas." From the article: "Naxxramas is going to be the most difficult thing in the game until the expansion pack comes out. It will be the pinnacle, and it's absolutely massive. You'll see this big necropolis floating above Eastern Plaguelands. It's a 40-man raid zone, and it's bigger than the Undercity [one of the main cities in the game]. Things could change, but we're up to something like 18 bosses in there, and they are really cool, too. But it's going to be hard. Really hard. We're hoping to release it in the spring." If you told me two years ago that I'd be reading about an upcoming instance in the sport section of the NYT, I'd have called you a damn dirty liar. May you live in interesting times, indeed.

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ghnaa fp (-1, Troll)

Audal (950291) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589385)

GNAA Announces Full Cybermilitary Support of the German Government
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"Liebe Freunde Freien Wissens, durch eine vor dem Amtsgericht Berlin-Charlottenburg am 17. Januar 2006 erwirkte einstweilige Verfugung wurde dem Verein Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Forderung Freien Wissens e.V. untersagt, von dieser Domain auf die deutschsprachige Ausgabe der freien Enzyklopadie Wikipedia (wikipedia.org) weiterzuleiten."

This roughly translates as, "Dear friends and comrades, Wikipedia has been shut down as of January 17th, 2006 due to a court injunction by the government of Germany, due to extensive support by Wikipedia for the Jews and the state of Israel".

This type of support was made illegal in Germany in 1939 by the Berlin Pact, signed by Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin. Angela Merkel, chancellor of Germany has announced that this injunction will not be lifted until Wikipedia stops supporting "Die Juden".

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About Germany

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| ______________________________________._a,____ | Press contact:
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ | Gary Niger
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Moreover, Interestelingingy enough!?!? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14589447)

Heh, I'd read the post, but I won't...

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Good day, sirrah!

Re:Moreover, Interestelingingy enough!?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14589640)

well, I find the GNAA's posts far more insightful than the average drivel posted on /.

Re:Moreover, Interestelingingy enough!?!? (1)

DrMrLordX (559371) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589693)

Agreed. They are rather offensive, but somehow amusing . . . I wish they'd post more often and maybe get away from template-based posts.

Wow! First Post! (1)

Shadowruni (929010) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589393)

Well this just reminds me of the stuff people were saying about seeing FF7 in movie trailers. I mean, sometimes games get bigger than themselves. I could see WoW doing the same.

NO MORE HUGE RAIDS! (4, Funny)

arakon (97351) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589417)

PLEASE!! MAKE more content that people without ten thousand reliable friends and 8 hours of their life to waste can play. damn blizzard.

RTFA (1)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589448)

That's kind of what the article is about. Quote:
It would be almost impossible for us to do, and this is a philosophical decision. We need to put a structure in place for players where they feel that if they do more difficult encounters, they'll get rewarded for it. As soon as we give more equal rewards across the board, for a lot of players it will diminish the accomplishment of killing something like Nefarian. My favorite times in the development cycle are when there are encounters that are close to being defeated but have not yet been beaten. It really creates a sense of awe among the players that there is something big and truly dangerous in the world. But it would be very disappointing if the items found on Nefarian were the same thing you could get in your nightly Stratholme run. [Stratholme is a much easier five-person dungeon.]

This is why hardcore players are stupid... (1, Troll)

michaeltoe (651785) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589594)

You guys think the game is all about the items you get after you finish your 6 hour raid. Yet you complain about how difficult the raid was, and how much misery you went through to get there. You use that as a strawman argument every time someone asks for more _content_, and of course, are completely oblivious to the fact that content != badass weapons and armor.

People just want something to do once they reach the end of the game. The rewards are secondary, but you're so demented you can't even remember games are supposed to be fun.

It's all about you (1)

DasAlbatross (633390) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589721)

For some people getting the great item and defeating an extremely difficult boss is fun. But I guess everyone should play games your way.

It's all about your epic gear (0, Flamebait)

michaeltoe (651785) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589896)

Again you miss the point entirely. Casual players pay the same monthly fee that hardcore players do, they just want to have fun and don't want it to become like a job (probably because they have one already!) Yet the vanguard of WoW's elitist pricks continually make the argument about epic weapons and armor and how "casuals" want Blizzard to give stuff away for free. That's not the case at all, but because you're demented, you can't see that.

Re:It's all about your epic gear (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14589991)

And moron casual players manage to forget that they're playing a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER online game.

No, you don't get to have more solo content at end game. Find some friends, or create an alt. The entire point of MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER games is to play with - *gasp* - OTHER PEOPLE.

So, please, stop whining when Blizzard caters to the people playing the game the way it's supposed to be played over those who really just want to play Diablo III all by themselves. Part of playing a multiplayer game is having to play with other people.

Re:It's all about your epic gear (1)

michaeltoe (651785) | more than 8 years ago | (#14590023)

The game, if I recall, was still massively multiplayer at levels 1-40. At endgame it reaches a point where you're basically forced to start raiding, or just start over again with a new character. If you think grinding the same enemies for hours with 40 other people yelling at you for heals is the only way to play an MMORPG then you need to stop playing WoW.

Too much "stupid" loot already ruins the game. (5, Insightful)

Shivetya (243324) | more than 8 years ago | (#14590082)

Seriously. Rare should mean only a few can exist in the entire world. In MMORPG parlance rare means you just have to farm the same damn mob over and over for it to drop. Nothing is Rare/Epic in WOW. It just takes longer to get. Hell most 60s are equipped in rares/epics.

Worse, its an ever escalating arms race. They keep out doing the last quest and now you have scads of level 60s running around with items that normal level 60 content can't threaten and worse, in PvP anyone not equipped on the same level is just shit out of luck.

Monty Hall.

When a MMORPG finally understand what rare means then perhaps we can get away from this incessant farming the create. Then Blizzard gets up on their high horse claim gold farmers are bad yet they continue to create the very environment which fosters them!

(sorry for the ramble)

Re:NO MORE HUGE RAIDS! (1)

packeteer (566398) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589457)

Every single 40 man instance is originally released for hardcore players but they all get nerfed eventually so that more casual players can play them. If they originally released new instances for casual players then the hardcore players would never go into them, and that would be a waste of an instance to only let some people play it.

Molten Core is now doable in sections of 1-2 hours at a time with 30-40 players with only gear from Dire Maul or the first few (easy) bosses of ZG. People need to stop demanding that blizzard release content for casual players, eventually all content will available to casual players.

Re:NO MORE HUGE RAIDS! (2, Insightful)

BrickM (178032) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589561)

Molten Core is "casual" now because it only takes 2 hours with 39 of your friends?

Sounds pretty hardcore to me.

Re:NO MORE HUGE RAIDS! (5, Insightful)

ImaNihilist (889325) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589611)

It is.

WoW really is a very short game. You can reach end game extremely quickly, and for the most part, the game has no dynamic end-game content.

You get to Level 60 and then you have to join a massive guild to make it worth your while. The only thing left to do now is get "uber" gear. To do this, you have to do instances like Molten Core over, and over, and over again. You can't just do it once, because there are a lot of people in the guild and a lot of people in the instance on the particular raid.

Once you reach Level 60 you join a massive guild and then have to play for at least 1-2 hours at a time, 3 days a week, on a fricken schedule just to advance your gear. It's not even a game anymore, it's work. Every night, 7pm log on and get ready to raid. For ever raid you participate in you get "points" within your own guild, and if you do it enough you get a chance to spend those points on the gear that drops in the instance. This is how most guilds work.

Basically, when you get to this level, it's not a game anymore. It's a job. You get paid per hour in points, and then you may spend those points to advance your characters stats. Don't show up to a bunch of raids? You might get fired. Don't do your job well? You might get fired.

Once you reach Level 60 in WoW it is ONLY for the hardcore.

Re:NO MORE HUGE RAIDS! (1)

humina (603463) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589956)

That basically sums up why I stopped playing. I wish Blizzard would release content that would make the endgame of WoW less like a job and more like a game. I guess I'll just have to wait until DnD online shows up.

Re:NO MORE HUGE RAIDS! (1)

Alien54 (180860) | more than 8 years ago | (#14590118)

WoW really is a very short game. You can reach end game extremely quickly, and for the most part, the game has no dynamic end-game content.

Sounds like they need something like a gold (or precious metal of your choice) rush, along with the politics hoardes like Ghengis Khan or the quivalent can bring.

I can remember the horror of a party walking into a favorite town and bar after a few months in the wilderness, only to discover the place had been over taken by dwarves (and all dwarves look alike you know) due to a mithral rush. Making, incidentally, their hard won hoard of gold and silver worth the equivalent of a hoard of copper and tin due to the rampant inflation. Did I mention there were too many dwarves?

Basically you are talking about changes in the game where the political climate is not at all static. And remember, a boss is not always killed siitng beside her/his hoard of magic and money. Maybe he is just in town for a visit. My favorite dungeons to run in the day were games where what the players did would setup the troubles they ran into later.

Example, low level players break into a hidden door in a hillside, exposing a long hidden complex. The door is such that they can't close it shut, and have to leave it open while they go to town a week travel away. They, of course, forget to hide it. This permits other things to get in while they are in town, and eventually allows other things to get out. This changes the balance of power, and things start to happen, because they do not know what they opened up in the first place, etc. When the war starts they know why certain things happened that everyone else is wondering about. Of course, folks tend to keep their mouth shut. and it rolls down hill from there.

It is easy to engineer something like this for a small group in a custom dungeon, but obviously more difficult to pull off in a custom world with many many players. If you have large raids into a city, you would thing the bosses would take proactive action against a raiding group or two, to make an example of some, just as a warning to others. That would make life interesting.

Re:NO MORE HUGE RAIDS! (1)

WhiteWolf666 (145211) | more than 8 years ago | (#14590206)

Raising the level cap will help, but its so far away.

At level 70, the current raid dungeons will be doable via 5-10 man groups.

Re:NO MORE HUGE RAIDS! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14589758)

Molten Core is "casual" now because it only takes 2 hours with 39 of your friends?

Sounds pretty hardcore to me.


Re-roll on a RP server.

KTHXBAI

Re:NO MORE HUGE RAIDS! (1)

arakon (97351) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589637)

I never asked for a free hand out on gear, just more storyline quests that I can do with my level 60 characters. I'm perfectly comfortable letting the people with nothing better to do with their life, run the same insane instances over and over and over and over and over and ... you get the point.

I'm quite happy with my green/blue gear. I just want something to do with my level 60 characters. I just do not have the kind of time to sit and LFG for an hour (sometimes longer) before a raid then struggle through a 40 man raid for another 3+. The worst part is that once you are at 60 there is ZERO gain from running these dungeons except for the outside chance that some new piece of equipment you want drops and you win a random roll for it with X number of people in the raid that ALSO want that equipment.

SO basically you just keep doing the same thing like a Gambling addict at a some kind of perverted slot machine where the minutes of your life are the quarters, in the hopes of getting a return. No thank you. I'd much prefer some new rinky dink quests and storylines, like "The Missing Diplomat" that just seems to stop, and the piddly green and occassional blue rewards.

Re:NO MORE HUGE RAIDS! (1)

RandomBabblings (949850) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589480)

Are you suggesting that Blizzard never make additional raid content for the game, ever? TFA only describes the next and last (before the expansion) raid dungeon that will implemented in WoW. It does not state that this is all they are implementing, with no solo or group content. Nor does it state when this raid dungeon will be implemented beyond a nebulous "spring". Assuming no delay (which is quite a big assumption with Blizzard), this raid dungeon is up to five months away.

Re:NO MORE HUGE RAIDS! (3, Funny)

secolactico (519805) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589660)

POST ON YOUR MAIN, N00B!

oops, wrong forum.

/o-rly?

Re:NO MORE HUGE RAIDS! (1)

wbren (682133) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589713)

The parent was modded +5 Funny, but the point he made is valid. If you look on the official WoW forums, you will see lots of debate between so-called "casual" and "hardcore" players. I agree that it's easy to waste 8 hours in Molten Core in one night, but I also realize hardcore players don't want to put hundreds of hours into raiding only to get the same gear and abilities as casual players.

Although smaller 20-man raids like Zul'Gurub are available, they too require a large investment of time. When you hit level 60, the game changes dramatically, and I don't think casual players realized that when they signed up for their subscription. Gone are the days of questing for experience. Life past 60 is all about grinding for gear. A family member of mine asked if I thought he might like WoW, and I told him he would like it until he hit level 50-60. He has a full-time job and simply can't put 5-6 hours per night into WoW. I don't think Blizzard will significantly change their strategy any time soon, so casual gamers (like my family member) may be out of luck for now.

Re:NO MORE HUGE RAIDS! (1)

friedmud (512466) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589913)

My solution is to re-roll as a different race/faction and do the stuff leading up to about level 35 or so again.... I really enjoy the lower level stuff much more... but I guess that's 'cause I'm kind of a loner and am mostly playing a single player RPG that happens to have some _really_ awesome NPC's to talk to and do some ad-hoc grouping ;-)

Friedmud

Re:NO MORE HUGE RAIDS! (1)

WhiteWolf666 (145211) | more than 8 years ago | (#14590242)

The answer in the short run is more levels. The answer in the long run is alternative advancement (hero classes).

Or you can grind for faction, which will yield you epic rewards (PvP faction, or PvE faction). Note: I don't mean honor; I mean faction. They are very difference; one decays over time, one doesn't.

The problem is Blizzard sees the short run as the expansion (May), and the long run as 1-2 years. This is too long for much of the current playerbase.

Re:NO MORE HUGE RAIDS! (1)

Austerity Empowers (669817) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589727)

Amen, I'd like to see 35-60 be as much fun and play exactly the same way levels 1-35 played. I barely play the game anymore due to the lack of content that just my wife and I can play (and enjoy). Yeah you can get to 60 with what's there, but it's not any fun.

I'm happy for the guilds and all those who like to raid, but I did it in EverQuest, it was fun, but I'm not willing to do it anymore.

Re:NO MORE HUGE RAIDS! (5, Insightful)

Sentry21 (8183) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589912)

This is one of the main reasons I stopped playing WoW. I'm a very solitary player, and while I don't mind joining up with two or three people for company, having to schedule end-game content just seems impractical to me. I want to see a massive sprawling, complex dungeon designed for three people, with traps and puzzles and such meant for three people to solve.

Make it challenging, make it complex, make it interesting, but don't make it all colossally huge. I started playing WoW because it was 'the MMORPG for the rest of us', for the people who don't have eight hours a day to devote to dungeons and instances and plotting. I would like to see more 'lone wolf' content for people who can't join a guild and/or commit to certain times to be online and play.

Maybe that's just me though.

Re:NO MORE HUGE RAIDS! (1)

Hays (409837) | more than 8 years ago | (#14590027)

I totally agree. Why can't the end game be as much fun as leveling up? WoW didn't feel like a grind at all, it was fun getting to 60. But once I hit 60 things got boring real fast. I really don't enjoy doing the same content more than a few times.

Re:NO MORE HUGE RAIDS! (1)

kai.chan (795863) | more than 8 years ago | (#14590056)

I was in the same situation. Having completed the content before 60, I walked right into a monotonous time-sink every night, spending hours trying to complete a raid in order to have the chance to roll against 5 others on one item.

It was a waste of time, really. But then I got Guild Wars. A game that is much like a combination of Magic and a RPG. I have a blast spending whatever time I have in guild battles. For me, the strategic elements in Guild Wars out-weigh the the World of Warcraft offering.

Re:NO MORE HUGE RAIDS! (1)

xiong.chiamiov (871823) | more than 8 years ago | (#14590208)

I originally bought Guild Wars because of the lack of a monthly fee (I normally buy two $30 games a year ;) ). However, I love many of the aspects of the game, including the ability to take on computer-controlled henchmen as teammates. Sure, they're stupid, but sometimes I just need someone to be a meat-shield or give me occasional heals. GW doesn't force me to stand around waiting for someone else to run a 5-min mission with me. And yes, there is so much more to say. But that would be offtopic. And we don't want that on /., do we?

Re: FUCK YOU JEFF KAPLAN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14590107)

Jeff Kaplan should go back to his raiding guild in Everquest because the vast majority of WoW players HATE RAIDS.

What is a "raid zone"? (1, Troll)

CyricZ (887944) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589454)

For those of us who don't play World of Warcraft, can somebody explain what a "raid zone" is? What are the "Eastern Plaguelands"? What is the "Undercity"?

Re:What is a "raid zone"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14589469)

I believe Louis Armstrong said "If you have to ask, then you'll never understand."

Re:What is a "raid zone"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14589475)

A "raid zone" is a part of the "worl"d in which you need a group of 20 or 40 people to do anything useful. If you're well-geared and -equipped, you need less, but the point is that you need a group of people working (very) well together to get things done.

"Eastern Plaguelands" is a high-level zone -- the creatures have levels 55+. "Undercity" is one of the capital cities and home of the "undead".

Re:What is a "raid zone"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14589654)

Two thumbs up, Leroy! Alright! Yeah! OOOooouhhh!

Re:What is a "raid zone"? (2, Informative)

Zaxor (603485) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589481)

  • The Eastern Plaguelands are an area of one of the continents in the game, filled with upper-level monsters (generally demons and undead).
  • The Undercity is the capital city of the Undead race (each of the game's races has their own capital city, excepting the gnomes and trolls).
  • A "raid zone" in this context is an instance, an area which is not shared among all of the server's thousands of players but which is shared only amongst each group that enters it, eliminating competition for bosses that drop better items.
  • A "raid" is such a group composed of 6-40 players who work together to defeat harder areas.

Re:What is a "raid zone"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14590330)

Don't feed the troll. That's all CyricZ is. CyricZ, go eat some more nubcakes. You need them.

Re:What is a "raid zone"? (1)

Moken (780202) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589482)

A raid zone is a place that you can only really go with a massive number of people in a group (a raid) as opposed to 4 others (a party). If you don't play, why do you care where the Eastern Plaguelands are?

The Undercity (UC) is the main city for the Undead, like Ogrimmar for Orcs and Trolls, Thunder Bluff for Tauren, Ironforge for Dwarves, Stormwind for Humans and ... something for Night Elves (can't remember).

Re:What is a "raid zone"? (1)

Zaxor (603485) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589508)

Darnassus for the Night Elves :-)

Re:What is a "raid zone"? (5, Informative)

jchenx (267053) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589525)

Hmm, I thought TFA explained the concepts pretty well, but I'll explain it again.

A typical "raid zone" (in the context of the article) signifies a dungeon that requires a massive number of people (usually 40) teamed up to beat it. There are several such dungeons in the game. Alternatively, there are other dungeons that can be beaten with a small group of 5, or even smaller.

The Eastern Plaguelands [wikipedia.org] is just a location in the game. The Undercity [wikipedia.org] is home to one of the WoW races, the Forsaken Undead. The wiki links have a lot more information about WoW locations in general, as well as game lore regarding them.

What does it mean to "beat" a dungeon? (-1, Troll)

CyricZ (887944) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589600)

What is a "dungeon" in this game? Is it like a real-life dungeon (Tower of London, Abu Ghraib, etc.), where people are imprisoned and tortured after being caught doing something wron? Does "beating the dungeon" mean escaping from it? Or is a "dungeon" just another area of the world which requires one to find treasure, fight some bad guys, and so on?

Re:What does it mean to "beat" a dungeon? (1)

Zaxor (603485) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589639)

The latter. Dungeons, or instances, are filled with harder-than-average monsters ("elites") followed by boss monsters who require coordination to defeat. Once all of the bosses in the instance are killed, the dungeon is considered beaten and you have to wait for it to reset before going back through. The reason to do it repeatedly is that each boss drops a few (maybe 1 or 2) high quality items, and the players that can use them roll for them. Of course, there are almost always more players than items so you keep going through for fun and to get stuff :-)

Re:What is a "raid zone"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14589580)

For those of us who don't play World of Warcraft

<jedimindtrick>This is not the news you're looking for</jedimindtrick>

Re:What is a "raid zone"? (1)

feyhunde (700477) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589583)

A Raid Zone is a dungeon in the game that is designed for a 40 man team. Large guilds are built around doing them.

As for the Plaguelands and Undercity: The Plaguelands were once the most fertile parts of Northern Azeroth. If you played warcraft 2 or 3, and remember the paladin Uther, that was his home. When 10 years ago the great plague broke out in the north, the dead rose as minions of the evil Lich king (who is actually an Orc spirit incased in magical ice that demons had doing their bidding). The lich king was able to have control of all the minions at all times. At his furthest advance he controlled most of Lorderon.

However the Lich King was damaged when he betrayed the demons, and had a minion of the demons cast a powerful attack, damaging the lich's ice. The damage let his power start to fade, making the most powerfully willed undead become free. The Ranger queen of the high elves became free and started the forsaken, free undead who want to defeat the Lich King's forces. There are still mindless undead out there, and in the plaguelands, some control of the Lich King remains.

Further, in the plaugelands are the Scarlet Crusade. They are zealots under the influence of demons. They have the remains of several paladin orders as well as the survivors of the plaguelands. They are quite mad and attack any creature they don't know on site, including other humans. Stratholme is the largest city in the Plaugelands. It used to be the jewel of the human north, closest city to the elves. Now half the city is in control of the Scarlet Crusade, the other half in control of the Lich King's minions. They fight constantly, while the undead side is full of Warcraft 3 undead units and structures, with the final boss being the only Death Knight in the game. Near the final boss is a closed gate with a raid portal behind it. This is the entrance to Narrax.

The Undercity is built in the crypts and sewers of the original city of Lorderon. The city itself was all but destroyed in the war, and the undead don't wish to live in the city's above ground ruins. They leave the original throne room in tact as a war trophy.

Definitions: (2, Informative)

_KiTA_ (241027) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589989)

Raid Zone: Huge dungeon inside a MMORPG, populated with enemy leaders and extremely valuable treasure. Takes a group of 5-40 players hours to finish.

Eastern Plaguelands: [wikipedia.org] One of the toughest outside areas of World of Warcraft. The Plaguelands are the remnants of a country that was killed by a plauge and ravaged by undead. Everything is dead, rotting, and there are undead (skeletons, zombies) and huge maggots everywhere. The Eastern Plaguelands are home to two of the first Raid Dungeons of the endgame -- Scholomance, a destroyed city full of undead, and Stratholme, a ruined city divided into two, one half is full of corrupted paladins, the other half full of undead.

Undercity: [wikipedia.org] The main town of the Forsaken. [wikipedia.org] Previously the capital city Lordaeron, events in Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos caused it to be destroyed by an undead Army called the scourge. Later, a "free" faction of undead, the Forsaken, took it over as their home.

Re:Definitions: (1)

WhiteWolf666 (145211) | more than 8 years ago | (#14590267)

Scholomance, a destroyed city full of undead

AFAIK, Scholomance is not a destroyed city, its actually at the height of its power. Scholomance is a school of necromancy; it should be filled with undead. Once upon a time, Caer Darrow was a rich family's castle, but they made a deal with the evil undead (scourage), and were rewarded with their status as necromancers.

When its empty of undead, something is wrong ;-)

all the time in the world (3, Insightful)

joe 155 (937621) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589486)

I have never played WoW - and this is something i'm very thankful for. I have a habbit of letting things take over my life a bit, especially games. It kind of makes you feel a bit like your wasting your life when they put hour counters in the games... I'm glad i've managed to keep my time.

Re:all the time in the world (1)

DasAlbatross (633390) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589738)

So for some reason doing something you enjoy is a waste of your life? Peronally, I feel doing things that are not fun and that I do not enjoy to be wasting my life. I enjoy playing WoW. I feel the time I spend playing relaxes me and keeps me happy. How is that a waste of my life?

Elite Quests and Dungeons (4, Insightful)

Phaid (938) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589503)

This sort of thing is why I pretty much quit and make a new alt whenever I hit about 40. I just cannot stand the gigantic instance dungeons.

And really, to me they pretty much destroy the enjoyment of the game. Elite quests and instance dungeons seem like a cop out on the part of the designers -- they just make the same monsters three times as hard to kill, for no reason that makes sense in the context of the game world. It's so amazingly frustrating when you work your way through a nice story arc, with lots of challenging but not impossible quests, and then at the end of it you end up facing a dungeon which is completely impossible for the usual group of 3 that I play in. So you're stuck either never finishing anything, or having to LFG and hope you don't wind up with a bunch of retards.

But then I guess I'm cluelessly stuck on that whole "RPG" aspect of it, which is clearly not where the money is.

Re:Elite Quests and Dungeons (2, Interesting)

OverlordQ (264228) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589532)

D&DO then?

Re:Elite Quests and Dungeons (1)

arakon (97351) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589571)

I'm probably going to get that at some point after it stabalizes out, gets a few patches and content upgrades. Looks promising.

Re:Elite Quests and Dungeons (1)

malelder (414533) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589780)

um, all Stormreach is, is a bunch of a instance dungeons...

Re:Elite Quests and Dungeons (1)

Austerity Empowers (669817) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589792)

They CAN be fun, if you have the time, and you like guilds. If you just liked the solo quests and fun content of the lower levels though, they haven't added much of anything worth playing.

Definitions Please (0, Redundant)

Barkmullz (594479) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589509)


Ok, I have not played WoW and I have no idea what a "40 man instance" or a "40-man raid zone" is. Can only 40 people occupy it at the same time? Are you facing imminent death unless you enter it with 40+ people? In the terms of WoW, what is an "instance" anyway?

Re:Definitions Please (1)

Jarnis (266190) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589578)

When the first person enters, a new 'copy' of the instance is created. Then only those persons who are in the same pre-created 'raid group' can enter the same copy. Maximum amount of players in a single raid is 40.

So, maximum of 40 players can enter. (8 groups of 5 players each)

If someone else tries to enter without being in the same raid group, he creates another copy of the instance, and won't see the other raid. So in theory 10 separate raids of 40 players each could be tackling the same bosses.

Effectively, a system to ensure that the top end mobs are never 'camped' by same top players, blocking access by others.

And to ensure that same people won't just sit at the boss spot for hours and kill it over and over again, each high end raid instance has a 'reset timer' between several days and a week. Nothing respawns until the whole instance resets. Also if you re-enter the area before it has been reset, it's status is the same as when you left it - you will enter the same copy, with the stuff you killed earlier still dead. Then people in your raid group can enter it with you, letting you continue clearing the instance where you left off the previous day.

Re:Definitions Please (1)

radarjd (931774) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589609)

An instance is a dungeon to which a limited number of people have access, but of which there may be many instances running at once. Take Molten Core, a 40 person instance. At most, you may have 40 people grouped together in a raid (8 groups of 5 people). I may in a group of 40 running the instance, while someone else is in another group of 40 running the instance. We will not interfere or even see one another.

Raid -- group of groups. A group contains 5 people at most. In order to join up with more than 5, you form a raid. The raid itself gives no inherent bonuses. It eases communication, and allows easier access to how other people are doing (in health or mana). At most, a raid may contain 8 groups.

So, a raid instance is an instance which requires a raid.

Some people dislike raids because of the requisite number of people required to experience the content. You have to get 40 relative competent people together at the same place at the same time and sustain the raid for several hours. Others like raids because the bosses are harder and the loot is better.

Re:Definitions Please (1)

jchenx (267053) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589612)

Ok, I have not played WoW and I have no idea what a "40 man instance" or a "40-man raid zone" is. Can only 40 people occupy it at the same time? Are you facing imminent death unless you enter it with 40+ people? In the terms of WoW, what is an "instance" anyway?

40 man instance/raid-zone - A dungeon that has a max limit of 40 people in it at the same time, as part of the same group. You can't have more than 40 people in a raid. If you enter with less than 40 people, chances are you won't get very far ... at least not to the end boss, and not without a lot of added risk.

Instance dungeons - I think it's easier to describe what it is NOT. Most areas of WoW (non-instanced) are shared. You can see what everyone else is doing, even if you're not a part of the same group. The advantage to this is that it seems more realistic. The disadvantage is that people are often fighting the same enemies, so you lose a lot of the epic feel. For example, imagine you're on a quest to kill a certain boss. But when you get to that area, you see several other random folks sitting there, trying to kill the same guy. That's not very realistic.

What instances do is create a copy of the dungeon that is usable only by you and your own group members. The whole area is yours. Game designers like it, since it allows them to better script the whole dungeon experience, without worrying if some other group happens to be there already. I believe the terminology "instance" partially comes from programming, where you can define a class and then an object is an instance of that class.

BTW, WoW is certainly not the only MMO to use instanced dungeons. Guild Wars, as a matter of fact, relies on it heavily. Other games (usually older MMOs like UO and EQ) didn't originally have instanced dungeons, so you had a lot of the "gee, we made it all the way to the boss and there are 5 other groups there now, I guess we need to wait in line" problems.

Re:Definitions Please (1)

illuminix (456294) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589629)

Instance - An area that once you (and your group) enter, you are alone. So if you and your group want to have the challenge of fighting their way through a dungeon, and killing the end boss, the game will generate a seperate dungeon instance just for your group. There can be 20 other groups running the same dungeon, each one in their own instance. So you don't have to worry about people being in the zone ahead of you. Once you enter, its yours to conquer.

In WoW, there's groups (limited to 5 people I think?), and then there's raiding parties. Rading parties can hold a much higher number of people. There's advantages and disadvantages to both, but raiding parties are usually organized to attack an enemy city, or to conquer an instance. A 40 man raid instance is geared towards large raiding parties. If you enter with much less, you'll simply be overwhelmed. The hardest instances require the most coordination between members of the raiding party.. as far as healing, debuffs, etc.

Only 1 raid party of 40 people can enter that particular instance. But there can be dozens of parallel instances going at the same time. Hope that makes sense :)

 

WoW is getting out of hand (5, Funny)

AdamThirteenth (857966) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589515)

This is ridiculous, when I go to a movie theatre and hear someone talking about guild drama, when I talk to friends I haven't seen in years and they have a rank 8 undead mage on Archimond, and indeed, when WoW appears in the Times.... WoW has gotten out of hand.

A little less MM MMORPG? (4, Insightful)

BrickM (178032) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589530)

Playing around in the world of Warcraft is absolutely amazing, due to the depth of story and rich world they've created. But I could never imagine buying and playing the game regularly unless they design a path or two you can take through the game to make it to the "end" without having to join up with a huge guild that schedules raids and grinds for gear.

Basically, I love multiplayer agmes and WoW is very good, but I can't stand playing a game on a schedule or organizing this massive efforts. Make some "end game" content that doesn't require a huge guild to complete, please. Some of us like company in the worlds we play in, but hate obligation.

Re:A little less MM MMORPG? (1)

swimmar132 (302744) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589731)

You can easily get to level 60 without doing any raids or playing with others.

Re:A little less MM MMORPG? (2, Insightful)

andykuan (522434) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589843)

I'm in agreement. I love playing the game but I don't have the time or patience for the administrivia involved in doing a raid. Implicit in these massive 20- to 40-person raids is that one's administrative effort in the "real" world is the price you have to pay to get those rare items. Plus the expectation that I must have a large contiguous block of time to kill in order to complete said raid.

Let's say doing a raid takes 3 hours of planning and 7 hours to complete. That's 10 hours of time expended. Couldn't Blizzard provide some kind of end game content that leads to rare items similar to what you'd get from a raid that would take me 10 hours to complete without requiring me to organize a bunch of wankers while ignoring my wife for a whole day? Heck, make it 20 hours of my time -- as long as it's possible to do some end game content solo.

Re:A little less MM MMORPG? (1)

Khaotix (229171) | more than 8 years ago | (#14590148)

It's called farming for mats/drops.

You do it solo. You can get phatlewtz. You can do it for a minute or a month.

Re:A little less MM MMORPG? (1)

andykuan (522434) | more than 8 years ago | (#14590352)

Sure, but the really good/rare items are only available in raid dungeons.

Re:A little less MM MMORPG? (2, Informative)

tourvil (103765) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589858)

But I could never imagine buying and playing the game regularly unless they design a path or two you can take through the game to make it to the "end" without having to join up with a huge guild that schedules raids and grinds for gear.

You can make it to the "end" without joining a huge guild or raiding all the time. You'll simply reach the "end" sooner if you don't do those things. There is a finite amount of content in the game, whether you're into small group stuff or raiding. The raiding content simply takes longer to burn through.

I don't plan to join a raiding guild (not quite 60 yet, only 51), which means I'll probably have to settle for lower quality gear. But I don't really mind. I've had a lot of fun getting my current current character to where he is, and I suspect I'll enjoy PvP for a good while, even if I'm at a disadvantage at 60 without epics. When I get bored with the small group content/PvP at level 60, I will likely either start up a new character and try a different class or find some new games to play.

Gay Elves Need Not Apply. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14589551)

FAG!!!

(Yes, I'm being sarcastic.)

Re:Gay Elves Need Not Apply. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14589589)

Night elves are the gayest of all the races.

(And I'm NOT being sarcastic.)

So it isn't just Blizzard who shut down GLBT talk? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14589756)

Perhaps the parent poster should have said, "The Night Elves have the highest ratio of non-straight players in the game." or something along those lines.

Leeroy Jenkins! (4, Funny)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589553)

That's all I've got to say about that.

a Dynamic raid (1)

lineman60 (806614) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589588)

Why is there nothing like Dynamic raid, like Diablo 2.The more people join the raid the harder it gets of course this would be relative to the players ability but since it is all instances But I don't think that it would cause to much trouble (in a week a walk though would be posted) and no one would claim that the devs are ignoring one group to satisfy another.

more proof blizzard intent on destroying lives (1)

Archbob (949219) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589595)

This is the final straw. I am going to sue blizzard for their obvious intent on destroying lives.

Expansion pack will fix a lot of high end problems (4, Insightful)

Mullinator (939148) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589602)

Since the Expansion pack will be raising the level cap to 70 a lot of the current raid zones will suddenly become instances that players will be capable of doing with far less people. I think that is why Blizzard keeps on releasing these high end raid dungeons since they know once the level cap is raised that people won't need to be so hardcore to do them.

YOU FAIL IT (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14589630)

40,0010 workst4tions

Bigger than a breadbox? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14589635)

The Undercity wasn't that big, from what I remember of trying to start Undead alts. Fucking annoying to navigate, but not that big at all.

public service message (2, Insightful)

DeadPrez (129998) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589658)

So are the all the "regular" enemies still going to be the same model except slightly different sizes and colors? ^^

I've lost a ton of friends to WoW, and in fact i played beta and about 3 monthes of release. Dungeons are the biggest scams and time sinks. But you can't compete either in PvP or other dungeons without farming item after item endlessly (literally hundreds of hours spent doing the same dungeon over and over)

For the love of god, recognize this shitty, endless cycle. Your life has no purpose and that's why you play (are addicted to) WoW, but guess what? Your life has even less purpose while you play! Also, real life friends are better than loser virtual friends who only act like the like you so they can get purples.

Re:public service message (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14589800)

"Also, real life friends are better than loser virtual friends who only act like the like you so they can get purples."

Oh! Someone's been hurt. ;D

Re:public service message (1)

SydShamino (547793) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589963)

Your life has no purpose and that's why you play (are addicted to) WoW, but guess what? Your life has even less purpose while you play!

No offense, but trolling on Slashdot on a Saturday is pretty low, too. =p

how wow works (5, Insightful)

DeadboltX (751907) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589670)

In WoW the dungeons are "instanced" which means that when you group up with people and go into the dungeon only your party is in there, it creates a new dungeon for each party that goes into it. Regular dungeons are 5-man, meaning if you are of appropriate level it will take a group of 5 people to go through with a decent ammount of time. These 5-man dungeons are usually capped at a max of 5 people also, so you can't roll through with 20 people and get it done in 2 minutes. 40-man dungeons are the "end game" content. They are possible to do with less than 40 but it is ill-advised if you value your time. They differ slightly from regular instance dungeons in that you are "locked" into the instance once you kill a boss. From then on until the instance resets (once a week) you will join the same instance every time you go in. This allows groups of people to complete a dungeon over the course of a week which is often necisary. The first 40-man raid dungeons were Molten Core and Onyxia's Lair. Molten Core (9 bosses + 1 super end boss) is doable with far less than 40 now if your group has been doing it and has awesome gear. Onyxia is a 1 boss dungeon which is also doable with less than 40. (Average completion time is 8 hours for MC, 1 hour for Onyxia) They then released Blackwing's Lair which is a lot harder than either of the other 2, most servers have only managed to progress to the first few bosses by the time they released AQ (I forgot how to spell it..) There really is no average completion time for BWL because only a few guilds complete it. AQ was just released about a month ago, even harder than BWL, I'm not sure how many if any bosses people have killed. But to sum it up, you need an organized guild of either 40 extremely i-will-lose-my-job-over-a-game dedicated people or a guild of 80 pretty dedicated people to assure that you will be able to do one of these dungeons on a schedualed night. High end raiding guilds will usually have planned raids 3-5 nights a week going to the various dungeons which makes the end game content seem more like a second job than a video game. The harder they make these dungeons the longer it takes guilds to progress through them, the more raid time is REQUIED the less fun the game becomes.

Re:how wow works (1)

Manatra (948767) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589871)

Many, many guilds have beaten Blackwing Lair (I would reckon about 5+ per server) and many more are probably working on beating the latter half of the instance. As well, the "average" completion time for Molten Core is more around 4 hours, 2 hours if you have good gear ;)

Raiding isn't as hardcore as people make it out to be. I am in Death and Taxes, probably one of the more 'hardcore' guilds out there. Yet I know of many many people in the guild that spend only like 10-15 hours online a week and attending pretty much every one of our raids. Yes you need a guild of 40+ people to do these raids, but you don't need to spend in ordinate amounts of time doing them.

Re:how wow works (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14589986)

In other words, just like Everquest.

World Of Raidcraft. (2, Insightful)

Visceral Monkey (583103) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589674)

Have fun, it's all about raids and it's why a lot of people are simply quitting the game. They seem to have forgotten the large number of people who made the game so popular..

Too much fun, literally (1)

illuminix (456294) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589685)

I leveled a hunter to 60, ran a number of raids with people in my guild, and really had a blast. My character is sitting there waiting for me, and I do plan on going back once the level cap is raised. When I was playing before, my wife was getting pretty neglected. I tried getting her into it, but I'd have had better luck trying to talk the pope into subscribing and playing an undead thief. Brick wall.

But now, she changed jobs, and starts very early in the morning. And goes to bed at about 9pm. Me? I stay up until about 1am. Lots of gaming time, wife is happy, therefore I am happy and life is good. I think I just talked myself into re-subscribing again. Where's my damn credit card.

   

One of the problems with WoW (4, Insightful)

Siberwulf (921893) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589733)

Being a game designer, and writing my own MMO, I've been doing a lot of thinking about WoW (avid player for 6 months).

It doesn't find the happy medium. It is like a pyramid, with the middle missing. There is no spot for mediocracy. You have leetsauce gear, or you are a noob.

Every game has its roots. DAoC was a PvP game. EQ was a PvE game. WoW can't make up its mind, so its kinda half-assing it on both attempts.

I think its great for the extra publicity, as it helps us indies get a better grasp on what Joe Public wants and how he reacts to various scenarios.

Re:One of the problems with WoW (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14590004)

WoW developers said they looked at other MMOs and decided to take out the tedium of camping monsters.

They simply replaced that with another sort of tedium: going through the same dungeon over and over again until you get lucky and get your drop..

It's the same thing as camping.

Re:One of the problems with WoW (1)

Screaming Harlot (942308) | more than 8 years ago | (#14590089)

Mediocracy? Isn't that the government system currently in power in the USA? ] /Rule by the mediocre

We want STARCRAFT 2, NOT MORE WOW STUFF! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14589747)

Starcraft 2 ! Starcraft 2 ! Starcraft 2 !

Xxxerexxesexx?? (-1, Flamebait)

dr_labrat (15478) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589822)

"Ahn'Quiraj, the necropolis Naxxramas."
No word should have more than two "x"s in it. And that includes a famous copier manufacturer.

Not that this article made the blindest bit of sense to me. This used to be a tech journal.

Proposed new tagline for slashdot:


"News for nerds, news for people that live in their parents' basement and pretend to be elves."

Re:Xxxerexxesexx?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14589958)

http://slashdot.org/faq/UI.shtml#ui500 [slashdot.org]

Lern2UseSlashdot.

Raiding is *gasp* Fun (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14589884)

(Brief intro, though others have covered it well:
Dungeons are portions of the game that spawn a seperate copy for each group that goes in them. They range from 5 people working together to kill mobs and more complicated boss fights (Dire Maul, many others) to 40. Naraxammus has a max of 40 people, and you'll likely need all 40 to do it with full effectiveness.)

Whenever there's a post remotely related to raids, someone bitches about Blizzard being raid-only obssessed. This happened back when Blizzard released the first raid dungeon after release (BWL) back in July, after they had already released two 5-man dungeons (Maradon and Dire Maul) since release, and no raids. It happened with ZG, and AQ, and Naraxammus will be no different. Yes, Blizzard has probably been a little too raid-centric. But, even if they had made only 5-man dungeons ... people would still be running out of things to do. And whining that the raiders had "more".

No game is going to last forever. If you feel you've played everything that's fun for you in the game, then you're done with the game. It happens even with raiders. (Nefarian first fell, what, several months ago? They ran out of content too, until 1.9, I imagine a number got bored and left).

Where it gets silly is those who make daft complaints about how their should be uber 5 mans that of course will be harder than any raid dungeon and how raiders never have fun and suck and the 5-manners should get uber gear. It's even funnier when there are complaints about how raiders are too loot obsessed in the same post as saying 5-mans should give epic loot.

Raids are fun. Particularly the learning curve. Working at a goal with friends, working together to meet a challenge that takes the skill of 40 organized, good people - it's great. People go for different things out of games; raiders take one thing, other people take others. And the raiding portion of the game at release - and after 1.3 - *was* inadequate. Frankly I think they could have stopped at AQ for a while, instead of Naraxammus, but I'm guessing this has been scheduled for a while.

And most of the well-designed raid fights (Ragnaros, Razorgore, Vaelstraz are shining examples but almost all of them fit here) *can't* be effectively changed to encounters that fit a smaller group, since they're designed around a large group. And Razorgore is fun as hell, as are most of the other bosses (Vael shows both the fun, teamwork, accomplishment side of raids and the frustating, stupid death side of it).

Yes, solo and smaller groups need progression of their own (the Field Duty quests and the 1.10 gear quest lines should provide both progression and quest content, but there should be more) but many of the complaints are silly. Or maybe I just spent too much time on the wow boards a while back.

OFFS! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14589937)

Why on earth do we care?

Piers Anthony (1)

mrmeval (662166) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589993)

Peirs Anthony had predicted these kinds of elaborate games a decade or more ago. He also predicted their wealth generating potential from intangible creations.

Raids (2, Interesting)

AdamThirteenth (857966) | more than 8 years ago | (#14589999)

I feel I have to chime in here in the defense of raids.

First, I find them a lot of fun but not for 8 hours. So, I don't join competitive guilds, I join more relaxed guilds, generally with higher numbers (about 140 or so) that has people willing to go on various raids if you'd like to that week

Second, They aren't required.

I spend more of my time on wow playing battlegrounds and leveling alts. I also like the concept of making a lvl 29 WSG character (that being a character that I don't level passed level 29 so he can play in a lvl 20-29 bracket in an instanced pvp arena) and getting the best possible gear for him and seeing how bad I can beat people (since its not going to happen in the 60 bracket.) Then do it again with a different race/class.

To me it's amazing working together in a 40 person group to accomplish a goal. It's cool to see all the rogues running around and hunters and mages unleashing ranged attacks from 41 yards. But, it does get redundant. I equate getting the best gear and (in an MMO world that means being the best generally) to being a dedicated athlete, it takes boring and redundant good ol' fashioned work! The best rewards shouldn't be easy to obtain and if you don't like it you probably should stick to FPS or RTS.

Re:Raids (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14590144)

I spend more of my time on wow playing battlegrounds and leveling alts. I also like the concept of making a lvl 29 WSG character (that being a character that I don't level passed level 29 so he can play in a lvl 20-29 bracket in an instanced pvp arena) and getting the best possible gear for him and seeing how bad I can beat people (since its not going to happen in the 60 bracket.) Then do it again with a different race/class. So, basically, you suck at PvP at 60 so you ruin 20-29 WSG instead? Fucking twinks. Go learn to play.

Since when... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14590018)

...is news about content upgrades for a single video game news worthy of being posted on /.. Gimme a break! I'm sure everyone that plays WoW already read this fantastic news on another source... those of us that don't (and there are a great many more of us) don't need to be wasting our time with this junk.

Raids (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14590024)

All this complaining about the commitment involved with WoW is confusing me. I have a level 60, and yes I have been part of several instance runs(no more then 6 people, not raids). This is a rare exception. Generally I solo, unlike many other MMORPGs it IS possible to reach the level cap without EVER joining a group. I rarely have more then a couple hours to play at a time and have made it to 60 without terrible difficulty.

Long ago I temporally destroyed my life playing Everquest. My lesson has be learned. I will not dedicate an unhealty amount of time to an MMORPG. In my opinion WoW facilitates leasure play far better then any other MMORPG I've played.

Why is WoW Any Different? (2, Interesting)

mabu (178417) | more than 8 years ago | (#14590083)

I stopped eating glass when EQ2 came out and my uber guild in EQ fall apart after I amassed enough DKP to get whatever I wanted, which then became totally useless. It was bad enough having to be at my computer for 4+ hours per night at the same time and participate in terminally boring raids over and over to get phat lewt, but the politics and the ass-kissing and the trivial drama just did me in.

At that point I stopped playing EQ and didn't mess with any of their competitors. But everything I'm hearing about WoW is that it seems almost identical to Everquest. It has all the same problems that plagued EQ. So what makes it a big deal? Is is just new and different eye candy but the same design? Same group sizes; same raid setup; instanced zones; epic weapons; everything?

I actually really enjoyed non-instanced dungeons. I'd argue whether the WoW and EQ2 standard is better. Yea, it's better if you want to live in a little sealed, unrealstic world, but the non-instanced dungeons were a lot more fun. Raids would accidently/intentionally train each other; opposing groups would help each other out; you could watch a powerful group break into a secured area and then sneak in and get some good loot... these are very real-world, realistic type scenarios. Instanced dungeons are lame. So exactly why is WoW such a hip game? From what I gather, it's totally derivative of other MMORPGS.

Re:Why is WoW Any Different? (1)

MaXiMiUS (923393) | more than 8 years ago | (#14590241)

Just thinking of the word "Politics" and "MMORPG" together makes me shudder. Face of Mankind is a good (err.. bad?) example of what happens when those two words are put together. BAD THINGS HAPPEN. BAD-THINGS.

What casual v. hardcore is really about... (2, Insightful)

pcx (72024) | more than 8 years ago | (#14590154)

The "war" between hardcore and casual isn't a war at all. It's just casual players have reached a point in the game where they are unable to advance their characters further. They don't want epic handouts, they just want a way to continue to make progress with their character and thanks to time/skill or other factors are unable to participate in the 40 man raid guilds that allow that to happen.

It's not surprising given that it's been over a year since a new "casual" dungeon has been added to the game (dire maul).

High end raids causing plug on new characters? (4, Insightful)

Grip3n (470031) | more than 8 years ago | (#14590320)

The issue that I see with this is the fact that starting a new character nearly becomes impossible, and nearly all the end-game content for reaching 60 is limited to 40 people during a guild's raid schedule. I, at one point, had two level 60's and enjoyed the game, but I realized it actually was taking over my life.

Initially I would only space time in for WoW, but eventually I found myself moving around my own timetable *for* WoW. Once you're in the hardcore guids, there is no end to the raiding (at night...during the day there is absolutely nothing to do at level 60 beyond PvP, and the PvP items suck compared to anything from BWL). The game became an obsession, perfectly viable business opportunities and opportunities to make a significant inroad into my career were forsakeen for...well...taking down Golemagg for the 55th time.

Now, this new raid instance merely continues the chain. Once again, there's nothing outside of raiding to do once you're 60. PvP items are becoming increasingly inferior to the epics won out of BWL or even AQ40.

Now the issue with new characters is suddenly, lets say you make a new one. You get him to 60, great. Decked out in blue items if you're good and spent your time leveling the last levels in Dire Maul. With this new Nex thing, you're incredibly behind. There are the epics from Molten Core you would want to get, which then you'll need to get the items from Blackwing Lair, then hit up AQ40 for all the latest Legendary or god knows what, then you'd be on your way to Nex. This process would take nearly 2 years to complete, and there's no way in hell you're going to AQ40 or this new zone without being decked out in Epics. There's even very little use for you in BWL if you're in Blues...especially against Vael when everyone just needs to be putting out huge numbers.

Thus, it becomes alts are...well...more of a burden than an enjoyable part of the game. You're stuck on one character and you damn well better enjoy it. You're hooped if not.

If i was at Blizzard, I would be looking for more ways to extend the story at level 60 beyond "Get a group of 40 people and kick ass". ZG was slowly making it that way...but perhaps even take it further. Most people who are casual could perhaps get 5 people together. Make a dungeon where you go and kill something that will yeild an epic item with a 200% drop rate (in other words, two epics...not 3 or 4 like from the 40 man raid bosses). Make the dungeon take around 2 hours to complete for the group of 5, and give it a reset timer akin to ZG's, or perhaps even the weekly timer. The casual players will love it because they can only ever go so often, and the hardcores probably won't want to invest all that time...unless they're more interested in just killing time.

It would be a slow process, but a good one. Perhaps the dungeon (at a level of difficulty equivilant to MC) yeild items straight from MC itself. Of course, with only 5 people the game would need to ensure an item isn't going to be destroyed, thus is sensitive to the classes in the group. At this rate, the group of 5 people should have 8 epics (the number of armor slots) by the end of 5 months. Comparatively, if you have 40 people go into MC, MC yeilds around 30 epics a month, 8 slots each, you're looking at 3 months of getting entirely equipped.

Thoughts?
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