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QNX partnering w/Phase 5 to make PowerPC computer

Hemos posted more than 14 years ago | from the blowing-in-the-wind dept.

Amiga 87

Emission writes "Canada based QSSL, which formerly were supposed to deliver the kernel for the next generation Amigas, with their QNX Neutrino kernel, today announced that they will instead partner with Phase 5 in order to port the Neutrino OS to Amigas equipped with Phase 5's PowerPC based PowerUP cards. Phase 5 has also announced a new quad CPU computer, the AmiRage K2, which will run Neutrino as its native OS. See the partnering announcement for details. This is apparently targetted at the many Amigans who are less than satisfied with Amiga Inc's decision to base the Amiga OE on the Linux kernel. " Erg-I can barely keep up with the changes that's going on. My head hurts.

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87 comments

Re:BeOS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790182)

Yea I got most of that. BeOS needs to be ported over to a 64-bit CPU, like a MIPS R12K. It would boot in -12 seconds flat everytime. :)


Dual boot better IRIX and BeOS on a stacked out, pimp tight SGI workstation, MMmmmmmmmmm Sweet.


What where we talking about... SGI? Don't get me started, you know what they should do....

Re:Improper moderation (1)

wysiwyg (13571) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790183)

QNX Neutrino & Photon GUI is SMP. It is finished for x86.
A demo has been available for download for some time. It fits on a
single 1.44mb floppy. Neutrino, Photon GUI, TCP stack and browser. Yo
can get on the net with ONE floppy.
Less than 1/10 of the kernel/OS is cpu dependent so is entirely
portable. AND the kernel is tiny.

Improper moderation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790184)

This post was improperly moderated IMHO. It is not flamebait, it's FACT!. Not only that, it's TRUE FACT. QNX is not currently shipping *ANY* os which supports SMP, nor any OS which runs on PPC.

What is happening to SlashDot?! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790185)

Am I the only one who's noticed that SlashDot is completely dominated by corporate news these days? Look at the articles posted here today, for example:

1) QNX
2) NSI
3) AOL/Sun/Netscape
4) Game Consoles (Sony/Nintendo,...)
5) AOL
6) Telstra
7) Westwood
8) USPS
9) Perl (finally!)
10) WalMart

Boring.

One, or arguably 2 articles out of 10 dealing with something *other* than what the corporations are up to. What I want to know about is what *our* community is doing -- where are the stories about the latest developments in free software projects like GNOME or KDE, etc. I'm sick of seeing stories about the latest IPO from some tech-related corporation. I want "News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters", not news for businessmen.

A disgruntled long-time fan of Slashdot.

Re:Don't know if it'll happen...not so fast!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790186)


Phase 5 is a hardware company - and a reasonably competent one at that. (Though certainly they do software work too, most hardware companies do - eg device drivers, etc.) OTOH QNX is a software company - and again a pretty competent one. I think between them, they could crank out a pretty nice machine.

Probably one of the things that made projects like the a\box fail was that they (phase 5 alone) tried to bite off two much work to chew on - certainly having the software side covered (at least half the battle) they should be able to pull it off this time around.

and the browser does do java (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790187)

If you had in fact used the single floppy demo as you claim you would have realized that the towers of hannoi demo is a javascript game.

Re:*bang* *bang* *bang* or not! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790188)


If you can afford Lightwave 3D (a pretty nice program, I will admit) than you can afford to buy the NT box (x86 or Alpha, take your pick), PowerMac, SGI, Sun, etc. machine that it already runs on. At one time I remember seeing a usenet post from Mr.SHF himself saying they were interested in porting to the NG Mac OS (called OS X these days) but that was quite some time ago - dunno if they still plan this, though I don't see why not considering that they already have the product on Mac OS and Apple is now full steam ahead with things like Open GL.

You really like CoolEdit BTW? Its ok I guess - SoundForge is pretty good too for just a wav editor. Cubase VST is kinda neat for a bloatware MIDI sequencer with multitrack audio. I'd like to get a Creamware Pulsar card one of these days when ether 1) hell freezes over and they write drivers for NT, or 2) they finish the Mac drivers.

I'm never going to touch 95/98 again - hope to get away from NT someday. Cant wait to fool with OS X. And the Phase 5 + QNX NG Amiga sound kinda neat too, might have to get one if it ever materializes. OTOH - the NG AmigaLinux based on X Windows I can do without.

Re:Is that "Ami Rage" or "A Mirage"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790189)

Your comment sums up the whole thing perfectly!

Somebody moderate this up to a 5!

technical superiority (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790190)

One of the big attractions of Amigas has been technical superiority and efficiency. Whatever anyone may say, we all have to recongise that Linux isn't anything special from a technical POV and that this is a marketting decision not technical.

Linux may not be very special from a design standpoint, being a simple re-implementation of UNIX, but it's very stable, and will allow the people developing the Amiga OE to skip over the more mundane and time consuming parts of the system and aget to work on The Good Stuff.

No doubt it was a marketing decision, but probably a correct one. So called "mindshare" does matter.

Stop chanting the marketing BS! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790191)

Listen bub, I called QNX today and asked: Can you send me something that supports dual processors on x86 or any other platform.. They *SAY* neutrion does, but they have NOT released anything that does.. IT's VAPORWARE!

As far as 1/10 cpu dependant goes, prob the same with Linux.. At least w/ Linux I could actually go and look.. With QNX it's equally likely to be a number the marketing guys pulled from their collective asses.

Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790192)

Dunno about the crap your running.. But *MY* big router has 5 68060's and two PPC cpus.. But then again, it doesn't run QNX..


Go BAY!

Re:Stop chanting the marketing BS! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790193)


Interesting that on their supported hardware list, in the networking section, the MPC 8xx SCC is listed...in case you didnt know, that is a programmable serial communications controller found an the Motorola 800 series embedded PowerPC microprocessors.

I think part of the reason QNX is going multiplatform is because of dealings with companies like Cisco systems. Cisco wants a high quality RTOS, but they want to use various RISC processors in their products, not just and/or even Intel x86.

uh, dude, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790194)

If you think QNX is another new fad OS, you havn't been around much. it is used in industrial environment, usually with custom software, not consumer market. If shut your hole when you don't know anything, you will learn more and be smarter. Linux is killing QNX right now. I like QNX much but i don't think it has a future now that everybody goes for linux. it is still much faster than linux tho.

Re:Question? (1)

Shrubbman (3807) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790195)

Because many in the Amiga community have a (somewhat understandable) loathing of the x86 platform. Look at all the criticism and discontent at even just the initial deelopment platform for the AmigaNG being x86 based.

Re:Y? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790196)

Why do we need Amiga, what is it targeted torwards??

Because computers are supposed to Be fun. x86 boxes aren't fun, no matter what they Be running.

New Icon, dammit! (1)

A Big Gnu Thrush (12795) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790197)

This clearly should not go under the Amiga icon. We need a QNX icon, or a QNX vs. Amiga icon, or just a good vaporware icon.

Or why not just put them all under the Penguin? Eventually the PR for any manufacturer will claim their system is Linux based.

Re:Question? (0)

Jungleland (65157) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790198)

Yes, Amiga Inc is owned by Gateway (yes the cowbox people) Why bother posting if you don't even know this?

> why don't they just use x86 hardware then??
Ask them

BTW this Amirage thing has nothing to do with Amiga Inc.

Phase5+QNX (2)

Nite_Hawk (1304) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790199)

Phase5 isn't exactly known for shipping products on time, or shipping them at all in some cases. (Pre/Box and A/box come to mind). However, to their credit, they have shipped accelerators for the amiga and have some of the better ones around. They also have created some of the best videocards you can get for the amiga. (too bad everything is at a pretty steep price, but what do you expect with low quantities?) When you think about it, what has Amiga Inc. Actually *done* for the amiga community lately? Alot of promises, and perhaps an update to the OS, but beyond that they've mostly just spun PR around. I think Phase5 deserves a bit more credit than what has been shown on here. They've tried and failed just like amiga has, but who knows, maybe they'll actually be able to use what they learned from the A/box and Pre/box mistakes and do it right this time. I am somewhat skeptical that either will actually come out with a product, or atleast, that it will live up to the hype, but maybe they will prove me wrong. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. It should be interesting!

Re:What is happening to SlashDot?! (2)

Stephen Williams (23750) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790200)

The "nerd" community and the "open/free" community are not one and the same. There's a lot of overlap, sure, but being a nerd doesn't automatically mean that you're not interested in what tech businesses are doing.

As a long-time Amiga nerd, I'm enjoying Slashdot's coverage of the recent Amiga saga. If you don't like it, why not get a Slashdot account and filter all the stories you don't want to read? You'll get some very light days (like today which, as you say, is dominated by corporate news), but at least you won't have to put up with stories you've got no interest in.

I personally read Slashdot for the comments. I can get straight news anywhere. The opinions of other Slashdotters are what counts for me. Opinions are always interesting, no matter whether the story in question is a corporate or "free project" one.

Re:Lightwave? Word. (1)

oscariommi (51850) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790201)

I think he ment the excellent sound editor / HD recording software CoolEdit Pro.. Not the text editor (cooledit texteditor is by the way a linux program)...

here's a mirror of the drivers page QSSL removed! (2)

Frederic54 (3788) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790202)

yesterday there was a web page at QSSL with the list of drivers for NTO/Amiga, here's a link [colba.net] to read it as it has been removed from the site but was in my cache.
--
http://www.beroute.tzo.com

Re:New Icon, dammit! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790203)

if it is a vaporware icon it needs to be half finished. Like a software produc

Re:BeOS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790204)

During the last rounds of the PIOS mess Be said that as soon as someone started shipping an affordable PPC system in large quantities they would port.

Is that "Ami Rage" or "A Mirage"? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790205)

I guess there's no difference.

Re:Y? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790206)

Cuz QNX is a real-time OS?

Those who commented on QNX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790207)

I once installed QNX on my 486 machine and my friend on his pent90, we were quite impressed with the speed with GUI. We like it much but, being poor students and all means linux.

Now, it seems to me that those people who made comment, especially negative ones, really have no clue what QNX is. This brings up another topic. after all, slashdot nowadays are, as we all saw in the poll, 1/3 windows people who have yet made the transition to unixes, but already burned a handful of linux and unix warez CDs.

can't we just say "slow news day?"

o well i guess i shouldn't complain, at least there's no sea and boat and divers like all other news.

java != javascript (1)

delmoi (26744) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790208)

don't bitch at someone for being ignorent, when you yourself are no better, the only relation java and javascript have is there name (and the coding style they share with c, c++, perl, python, etc)
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"

Re:java != javascript (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790209)

The QNX demo disk doesn't support Java but the specs for Device Mosaic claim that it can do.

Re:technical superiority (1)

GregWebb (26123) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790210)

Linux may not be very special from a design standpoint

Thank you, someone who's prepared to say that. And this is the big ptoblem for us. Yes, the kernel's not the interesting bit, but if we're stuck with the wrong kernel it's a big problem. Linux just isn't the right product for trying to build a new BeOS, in effect. Sorry, but for this to work there needs to be a compelling reason to move, and this announcement makes that very unlikely.

Greg

Re:Question? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790211)

"So gateway(the cow box people) is doing it? That doesn't make sense why don't they just use x86 hardware then??"

Maybe they heard about this product differentiation thing and thought they'd give it a go?

Re:Question? (1)

The Foreman (71909) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790212)

the amiga was never dead!
i dont know why so many think it is

Don't know if it'll happen... (2)

Stephen Williams (23750) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790213)

phase5 were the guys talking a couple of years ago about an Amiga-style computer called the A\Box, which never saw the light of day. They were also planning a multi-processor Amiga-compat called the pre\Box, which also never happened. With this track record, I'm a bit sceptical. It'd be nice if it did happen, though. phase5's hardware is (in my experience) very good.

Hell hath no fury like QNX scorned. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790214)

I guess they're trying to recoup whatever investment they made on Neutrino. Still, I really have to wonder if this OS is good enough to sell lots of boxes. I mean gee, didn't Be Inc go public just a couple of days ago? And are we not in agreement that even though BeOS is Wicked Cool(tm), Be Inc realistically doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell? Why is this different?

FUD FUD FUD FUD! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790215)

Reality check: QNX does not do SMP, QNX has gone nowhere outside of x86.

Get real! The are trying to blowoff intrest in Amiga.

Amiga soap (1)

Pingo (41908) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790216)

This is just the next sequel in Amiga soap opera.

Nothing will ever come out of this.

//Pingo

Slogans for Phase 5 (3)

Squid (3420) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790217)

Phase 5: Fighting Vaporware with Vaporware since 1995!

Phase 5: If we don't ship it, you didn't want it.

Phase 5: One of three promises actually ships, it's six months late and 150% it's original budget, but when you finally get it, it's GOOOOOD...

Phase 5: If this don't work out, you can always try out Mac accelerators instead!

Phase 5: Cooperation, shmooperation - just don't piss us off, okay?

Re:FUD FUD FUD FUD! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790218)

QNX Neutrino does SMP. FUDhead.

Re:Don't know if it'll happen... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790219)

So is the name of that machine to be read "Ami Rage" (as in they're pissed off at amiga) or "A Mirage"?

Hmm...

QNX To Partner With... Anyone! (0)

mholve (1101) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790220)

In related news, QNX is hoping to partner with anyone. Anyone out there want an OS cheap? Please? ;>

Re:Does these companies have any real business pla (1)

Mark Storer (4097) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790221)

What's the motivation to switch from a free OS like Linux then?

There isn't? I don't know what market they're after, but I doubt the Linux community is it. More likely, they'll be going after set-top boxes and entry level computers, taking users away from MS, not Linux.

Look ma! I'm a pundit! ;)

I could see this coming... (0)

cluke (30394) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790222)

Phase 5 have never really been happy with AInc. Amiga blew them off by first announcing that the new AmigaOS would be PPC, then changing their minds, leaving Phase5's powerUp business rather dead in the water.

I believe that they haven't managed to get any guarantees about being able to manufacture NG Amiga hardware either, so I suppose this is logical for them.

They are rather burning their bridges with Amiga Inc, however.

the more the merrier (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790223)

Let's get ready to rummmmmble ... and may the best man^h^h^h system win!p Welcome to the fray!

I could see this coming... (1)

cluke (30394) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790224)

Phase 5 have never really been happy with AInc. Amiga blew them off by first announcing that the new AmigaOS would be PPC, then changing their minds, leaving Phase5's powerUp business rather dead in the water.

I believe that they haven't managed to get any guarantees about being able to manufacture NG Amiga hardware either, so I suppose this is logical for them.

They are rather burning their bridges with Amiga Inc, however.

And they are utterly notorious for product slippage.

*bang* *bang* *bang* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790225)

Methinks I hear more nails being driven into the Amiga coffin.

That's just what they need now - a split in the community. Sure, fragment that user base even more!

Man, I loved my Amigas back in the Chicken Lips days, but I'm sure glad I moved to Linux. Smartest thing I ever did.

Now if only Softlogik would port Pagestream to Linux, and NewTek would port Lightwave to Linux, my life would be complete.

Re:Hell hath no fury like QNX scorned. (1)

jd (1658) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790226)

BeOS aren't promoting their OS, aren't encouraging people to use it, and have overpriced it for the intended audience. In short, they've done a great job of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Does these companies have any real business plans? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790227)

I would really like to hear from Amiga, QNX, and Phase 5 as to how they actually expect to create viable products out of all this Amiga stuff. The PowerUP + QNX stuff seems to have some merit for those still hanging on to their old Amigas, but I don't see how a new Amiga will fly at all.

Business plan-wise nobody is doing anything new and different here. It's the same thing Be tried, and Be failed. Technology-wise Be is better, a completely new design with many design features making it better than OS/2, Windows, or *nix. All this Amiga stuff is dragging legacy Amiga or *nix into the design. What's the motivation to switch from a free OS like Linux then? It has to be more than several percent improvement in multimedia performance. CPUs improve so fast that by the time software comes out to utilize that small difference, a new faster CPU running an older, less advanced OS, can muscle through the same job. It may not be pretty, but it works, and is how it is working.

Prices (1)

Jungleland (65157) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790228)

As the PPC add on boards are almost as expensive as a budget PC I can't quite see how they can make an entire computer to this spec for as cheap as they seem to be implying.

Question? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790229)

I'm probably stupid about this, but I got a couple of questions.

1) Isn't Amiga dead, Is it like one of those atari things where (Hardcore) hobbyists use outdated techs for the fun of it?

2) Didn't the company that produced Amiga, go out of business.

3) Are these "new" guys rewrite the entire system for commerical benifits? (IE, not OSS, but to sale it in a (closed?) binary format).

4) I should of read those other 16 news post before this, I just thought it was about some ranting crazy talking about the amiga sub culture.

QNX looks more advanced than BeOS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790230)

I am not sure but according to the stuff I read
QNX is much more modern and includes more interesting features than BeOS does... Basically BeOS is cool because it didn't went through time yet... And hasn't been slowed down much yet... But QNX really brings new concepts to mainstream...

Just take Be's object model for instance (Ok it is not OS related) it is not revolutionary at all... They are not bringing new stuff here...

Re:Does these companies have any real business pla (1)

MrAl (21859) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790231)

I wonder why Be has failed already? They've just gone public with a pretty decent showing and the OS is stronger than ever.

Did I miss some big news that Be's out of business?

Re:Y? (1)

Sloppy (14984) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790232)

We could dump Win** and MAC and stick the mindless droids on Amiga boxes

I think that is exactly what Amiga Inc intends to attempt. There's a lot of money to be made there. Might be going after BeOS's check too; hard to tell.

Not sure what QNX Neutrino and Phase 5 going for. It looks like they are going for the hobbyists who find the free Unixes to be boring. Maybe they'll also go after the mindless droids too, but it's hard to tell at this point. (I wish QNX would speak up!!) And keep in mind that QNX also does imbedded systems that can stealthily creep into everyone's lives without them even knowing it. Who knows, your car/toaster/router might be running their stuff.

BTW, you are wrong about MacOS.

Re:I could see this coming... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790233)

And they are utterly notorious for product slippage.

So is Microsoft, but they are doing quite well, don't you think??

Re:Y? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790234)

Win** is targeted to keeping tech support people employed.

MacOS is for people who want to get stuff done, not fiddle about with configuration stuff.

QNX Really Sucks!! (1)

deadzilla (71327) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790235)

We use QNX version 4 and 6 at work. It is solid -- does not crash, but really retarded when it comes to hardware.

Will not run on Celeron, AMD, Cyrix, Pentium III or Xeon!!!

Will not run on x/100 clocked Proccesors ( no 100s , 200s, 300s) usualy this means that you just need to jumper or switch the speed down.

Now I have seen the new demos and was really impressed... but not that much. Any browser with no java is prety pointless.

Re:Y? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790236)

What tech support?

Re:New Icon, dammit! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790237)

A bong with smoke (vapor) pouring out of it, we will use this when we get X amount of news articles over Y amount of months promising Z.

This will be our icon for vaporware. UH, this is good, Make it so..

Re:QNX Really Sucks!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790238)

Duh....I must be doing something wrong. I'm running QNX 4.25 on a Celeron 366.

Quite the opposite (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790239)

In my opinion Phase5 is probably one of the few companies that really deserve respect in the Amiga world.
They were one of the very few who actually delivered products like PPC boards, gfx boards and software support for them. sure they didn't release their x/Boxes, but neither did Amiga Inc. At least they had prototypes...
I own a Phase5 accelerator board and know some others who do, and they are usually very satisfied.
So, if ANYBODY deserves to get some credibility, then it's Phase5.

Re:Does these companies have any real business pla (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790240)

Sorry, I should have said that their dedicated BeBox failed. On the OS side, even though they just went public, they've got a long road to hoe before they can become a soluable company. I hope I don't sound like I'm against Be, I'm just pessimistic. I don't know what Be's set-top plans are, but I hope they can make a go there, same wishes for Amiga in that space. The desktop arena is just to crowded.

You know what I like about OSS? If the developer goes belly up, it doesn't matter. As long as user/developers exist the OSS lives on. My long term fear for BeOS and Amiga is, that if they don't make it, their technologies will be lost or potentially bought by M$ and put on a shelf where it can't hurt them. Versus Linux, if EVERY distro went defunct (I can't imagine how) the software is still out there and some college geek will pick it up and carry on. It can never die.

Ryan

Re:QNX Really Sucks!! (1)

Frederic54 (3788) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790241)

QNX6?!? last one is QNX4.25, and it runs perfectly on 386, 486, pentium, pentiumII, pentiumIII, AMD, Cyrix, etc.
Hardware support is quite good, all the network card i have here are supported, video card also, they also have new SCSI driver in alpha that support almost every controler.
BTW it runs on PII 450 or PIII500 or c300a o/c to 450
--
http://www.beroute.tzo.com

list of support driver for Neutrino/Amiga ? (1)

Frederic54 (3788) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790242)

yesterday there was at www.qnx.com/amiga/drivers.html a full list of driver supported by NTO, it has dissapear!
--
http://www.beroute.tzo.com

Re:*bang* *bang* *bang* (1)

Rick_T (3816) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790243)

| That's just what they need now - a split in the
| community. Sure, fragment that user base even
| more!

At this point, should either "Amiga" developer really give a rat's ass about fragmenting the community? There just aren't enough die-hard "I will buy anything with the Amiga badge on it" Amigans left to make a financial dent these days.

If any company pusing a new "Amiga" is to survive, IMO they've got to shed the ashes of the Amiga's former life and reach out to a whole bunch of *new* blood.

*sigh* (1)

schon (31600) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790244)

Great... Phase5 is probably the largest vapourware company in the
world (percentage-wise - number of products they announce, relative to
number that actually ship,) and has the _WORST_ tech-support -
even worse than Microsoft...

I guess this puts an end to QNX's interest in the Amiga market..

Hmm.. interesting theory - what if QNX is aware of Phase5's
shortcomings, and is doing this to save face? (We couldn't carry
through with our promises because the hardware company we partnered
with dropped the ball...)

The High road and the Low road (4)

BranMan (29917) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790245)

This may be slightly off-topic, but I think I can see all the company's logic. This makes my head hurt too - I was a staunch and loyal member of the Amiga community for a very long time. Most would be simply overjoyed to have a new Amiga come out - any Amiga. Now there will be TWO?

Anyway, Phase 5 has been cut out of the loop for a very long time. They are still trying to work with the old Amiga architecture and update it (even with the A/box and pre/Box projects that fizzled). To their credit they have been very good and very didicated.

Amiga Inc has decided to start over (and as we read in CatB, you have to be prepared to "start over, at least once"). I sincerely hope that Amiga Inc's "magical mystery chip" is Transmeta's and that it turns out to be worth the secrecy and hype.

FWIW, I think Amiga Inc. is right and Phase 5 is wrong. Embracing the Linux kernel is the only chance Amiga really has of creating a place for itself. I've been thinking about this a lot since the Linux for Amiga announcement. This might be the perfect opportunity for LFTM. Phase 5 and QNX will be just another bit player, and will end up like the old Amiga - lost in the shuffle, with little hope of getting into the mainstream. [I know, I know - it saddens me too, but there comes a point you have to cut the cord and move on .]

Think about Amiga Inc's vision. A new Amiga - which has some (very specialized) name recognition, "running Linux" (you know that's how the press will talk about it), using the newest, greatest powerhouse CPU from the mysterious Transmeta. This will have Linux binary compatability (read: large application base), ONE desktop, ONE look and feel (with the option to add more later, but having ONE at first is a key point for LFTM), plug and play hardware (if they are lucky), ONE video system (already configured for X-windows and 3D), ONE sound system (really key, and still painful for Linux in general). This could be THE saving grace for Linux For The Masses - somewhere everyone can start. For 75%, that will be it. The rest will add and play a little at a time (read: progressive disclosure - another user interface point for LFTM). No sysadmin duties, no configuration worries, plug it in and run. Period. It could be "the Linux box any grandmother can use".

BeOS (1)

Tsk (2863) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790246)

I whish BeOS ran on That Baby .....
But the baby isn't out Yet
Reminds Me Pios who said they would release the Pios One in 6 month and 6 month later said in 6 month and so on until they just drop the idea of making a PPC machine.
But if this baby ever comes out, linux Will rock on it (especially since Motorola gave the egcs project evrything for altivec support).

Re:*bang* *bang* *bang* (2)

tgd (2822) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790247)

In my book the three killer apps for me under Linux would be Lightwave, Cool Edit Pro, and Eudora.

Lightwave is on a bunch of platforms, and seems to generate its own UI widgets, I wonder what would be involved in Newtek actually doing a Linux port? Eudora is probably pretty portable too.

E-mail campaign anyone?

Cool Edit Pro seems very tied to the Windows system, so there's not much chance there. Its a shame there's not anything comparable that actually works right now.

SMP and TCP +QNX hmm (1)

johnjones (14274) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790248)

ok QNX was based on the same o/s that sits in your router (if you have a good one)

so for that reason it does not do SMP uh huh
its a real time OS ideal for embeding into products what they are trying to achive here I dont know this comes far to fast on the heals of amiga's PR on linux

what do thy hope to achive maybe they want to licence it to others but this seems the wrong way to go about it !

all that work and they dont realise what its for !!!


john jones


a poor student @ bournemouth uni in the UK (a deltic so please dont moan about spelling but the content)

Re:Question? (1)

Jungleland (65157) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790249)

>2) Didn't the company that produced Amiga, go out of business.

Yes

>3) Are these "new" guys

Never heard of Gateway then ?

Re:The High road and the Low road (2)

BadlandZ (1725) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790250)

This is all just my opinion, and it could be way off base. I bring it up only for a diffrent point of view.

"running Linux" (you know that's how the press will talk about it) In a way, Linux is to OS's what Ross Perot was the "the third party canadate." It has successfully shown that there are other options than the "Big Two" (GOP/DNP, and Windows/MacOS) for general user desktops. At the core of Linux is a kernel in heavy development. But out in userland, it's success is primarly due to "open source" applications. So, when you say " Linux binary compatability (read: large application base)..." it won't be. Binary isn't the issue at all. The issue is open source, and source portablity. The binaries are a non-issue, because they can be recompiled on diffrent platforms. Open source has opened the doors to a wide range of platforms.

Since open source "opens the door," the remaining issues are the platforms. On the hardware end, there are companies like Compaq who have a great chip in the Alpha, and AMD who might have a great chip comming in the K7. But, the the great chip in itself will not be enough, it will require strong support from the compiler community. Alpha's lack of success in the Linux community is primarily not do to Linux, it's insted due to the fact that although the chip is strong, and the OS is stable, the binaries generated by open source compilers are fairly weak. gcc/egcs has made a great effort, but for some hardware, it's "not there yet" and it will take the hardware vendors embracing _NOT THE OS_ but the open source compiler community insted. When the preformance of the applications can match the potential of the hardware, only then will the platform be considered "a good choice."

What if Amiga teamed with Linux is much like saying "what if George Bush Jr. teams with Mrs. Dole" It's a big "if" that hinges only on popularity, and may make a splash. But when it comes down to the issues, *BSD, QNX, or anyone able to provide a solid OS at a low cost WITH the ability to take instant advantage of the wide range of open source applications, and with the ability to optimize those applications successfully for the hardware will end up the "better choice."

The success of XFree86 is nice, and with the looks of 4.0, will be better. But, it's not the be all to end all. Berlin is comming down the pipe, and anything that is capable of creating a good solid windowing environment for the right target platform will be something that will not go un-noticed. If you want to talk about "cutting the cord," consider X11R6 standards, lackings, and the fact that XFree86 is fairly tied into x86 hardware. When do we "cut the cord" on legacy x86 compatability, and focus on portability, and _good_ preformance (optimized compilers) for other platforms?

All in all, if Transmeta and Amiga and Linux teamed together, I don't deny it would "make a splash that the press would notice." But would the waves generated be ripples in the ocean, or would they be big enough waves to wash some of the standing perminate fixtures on the shore away?

IMHO, the true unsung heros are not Linus, or Jordan Hubard, or any "OS" people. They get enough press. The true unsung heros are not AMD, or Amiga, or Alpha, they get enough press. The people with the potential to change the computing world are 1) the open source compiler community, and 2) the people who focus on making thier open source applications efficent and portable.

Inexpensive PowerPC Machines? (1)

AArthur (6230) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790251)

I really hope, this could lead to inexpensive PowerPC-based PCs, even cheaper then some of Apple's cheap machines-- (the iMac [at us$1299] and the iBook [at us$1599]).

Other PowerPC hardware is much more expensive. :-( This is too bad, since the PowerPC platform is well designed and put together, even if it has some faults.

Re:Hell hath no fury like QNX scorned. (2)

yakneb (61234) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790252)

If you see BE's demo at a trade show, they will give you a $25 discount on the os. Now $45(price with disount) is a lot lower than most unix flavors when you order them with tech support and manuals. If you don't want those things than it doesn't really matter if the OS is free or not, you call intall a pirated copy if you don't need those services. I think that Becorp is trying to get people use their product, the are not trying to slay microsoft, just supplement them. I think that this attitude is reflected in the partitioning and multi boot software it comes with the OS.
But one more thing. BEOS runs on off the shelf PC hardware (mac to, but that looks like that is ending. QNX isn't likely to be able to combine an obscure os with un-mainstream hardware. They are going to need one hell of a killer app for that to happen.

---
In the land of the blind the one eyed man is burnt at the stake.

Things change ... (1)

timothy (36799) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790253)

Today really is pretty heavy on the business stuff, it's true.

But it's not really possible to neatly cleave business news from technical news: technical products are sold, after all, and the companies that make them and employ their designers grow, shrink, go new directions, make missteps ...

Also, as Linux becomes better known and more successful among non-Uebergeek users (I fit somewhere in the slime-mold sequence of computer users;) so I know we're out here!), the fact is that more things which are undeniably Business will be significant to slashdotters. If a big hardware company is even a smidgeon more open about their design to Open Sourcerers, it's a big deal.

Also, since now many businesses are (figuratively) scratching their chins and mumbling about Free OS alternatives to the perpetually baited hook of MS Upgrade, it makes sense that business coverage is more and more relevant.

Just some thoughts,

timothy

Re:QNX Really Sucks!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790254)

Dude. If you don't know what you're talking about, shut up already.

- There is no version 6 of QNX.
- QSSL is porting Neutrino, not QNX to Amiga.
- QNX does run on the platforms you mentioned, so does Neutrino.
- QSSL has a long history of developing quality products.

You are retarded, not QNX.

Seriously... (0)

Uart (29577) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790255)

I don't want to go see a demo, i'd love to be able to buy any OS real cheap, like 25-30 USDollars, because then it really isn't too much to try it. Want to see if you like linux??? Go to Cheapbytes and pick up a CD for $2,or a few CD's for only slightly more. Low costs = more people will try it. High costs == forget it.

The cost to try out Mac OS may seem high, btw, but since macs are relatively strong in education, most people probably got a chance to REALLY try a mac at their school. I know I did, but to me, it wasn't worth the money, at least at the time. Anyway, making it easy, cheap, and sometimes free to people to use a product, is a way to get more people to buy it.

Re:The High road and the Low road (1)

BranMan (29917) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790256)

I'm afraid you've missed the point I was trying to make with my LFTM comments. The Open Source community, and all it has done is absolutely irrelevant in the mainstream arena. I made the point of stating Linux binary compatability for a reason - the average person wouldn't know a compiler from a cobra. They don't WANT to compile code. The average Linux person doesn't even compile code - "Hey, here's a great new app that will run on every machine on the planet! Download it and compile away!" "Uh, are there any RPM there? No? Oh, oh well."

I'm not trying to start a flame war (Really! I'm not!), but the idea of the Amiga being LFTM does not include source code. Period.

For any machine to reach the mainstream public it has to be able to run apps. All apps, any app you go down to CompUSA and buy off the shelf. Right now that is Win9x. We are starting to see a few Linux titles on the shelves. Games, distributions. That is what I think Amiga Inc is capitolizing on - and needs to.

Time will tell.

Re:list of support driver for Neutrino/Amiga ? (1)

HeUnique (187) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790257)

The page appears correctly.

Speaking about drivers, I'm sorry to say, but anyone who can grab Linux kernel 2.2.x will find that 95% of the drivers that QNX supports - Linux supports also (besides the USB which is developed right now & Firewire).

Also, Linux got LOTS of other drivers that QNX doesn't. Some examples: ISDN, Radio tuners, TV Tuners, mouses, camera's, and lots more..

So please QNX, admit it - open source work.. specially with Linux.


Quality, not quantity Daniel Son! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790258)

That posting was just to show the world that QSSL is not in the stone age with regards to drivers.

Also, these drivers were all written with real-time applications in mind. That means that there are no unbounded loops, they're slim, and *very* reliable.

The day Linux (or CE) runs nuclear powerplants and mission critical medical equipment is the day I head for the nearest fallout shelter!

Re:The High road and the Low road (1)

GregWebb (26123) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790259)

Embracing the Linux kernel is the only chance Amiga really has of creating a place for itself.

and

XFree86 running on top of Darwin would have been interesting

As an Amiga fan of many years, no. One of the big attractions of Amigas has been technical superiority and efficiency. Whatever anyone may say, we all have to recongise that Linux isn't anything special from a technical POV and that this is a marketting decision not technical. Same goes for X - too bloated.

We've all stood by Amigas for years because we like the clean efficiency of these machines and still marvel at the phenomenal speed of a machine this old. The technical brief, for me at least, squashes all that and ignores our heritage. It might help a little in the long run, but it's turned off a lot of Amiga fans who liked the idea of being revolutionary and technically superior again and now realise that this just isn't going to happen. I suspect I'm not the only one for whom one of these machines has suddenly moved from a must-by to a wait-and-see, and with not that much faith either.

Oh well, we'll just have to see how it goes. Rather vindicates my decision to work with KOSH though...

Greg

Re:Improper moderation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790260)

You're wrong.

Neutrino works on PPC. I've seen it.
It also does SMP.

Read and be informed

http://www.qnx.com/products/os/neutrino.html

Phase5 (1)

wysiwyg (13571) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790261)

Phase5 announced the A/box when Amiga had no owner (after Escom went
bust) and put it on hold once Gateway bought Amiga.
They have QNX neutrino OS and the hardware is off-the-shelf so it
should be easy/quick to produce. I have a few phase5 cards -they re
all he best in their respective catagories, well designed and
manufacture and reliable

Lightwave? Word. (0)

mholve (1101) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790262)

Yeah, that'd be pretty phat. It should not be too difficult as it's already ported to IRIX. Use Mesa rather than OpenGL...

Eudora would be nice - a complete, full function Email client. Postilion is neat, Balsa is half done, Netscape stinks... A nice GUI Email client would be really nice, and it's not too much to ask for. :P

Cool Edit would be nice, but check out "nedit" and "Slick Edit Pro" for starters - pretty darned nice.

Y? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790263)

Why? We have all the *nix that we should ever need, over 80 in all, more than 25 still in active (support &) develpment. And if for some (impossiable) reason *nix ceaes to exist, there is BeOS. Why do we need Amiga, what is it targeted torwards??

BeOS is targeted towards media workstations, ok we can use that.

*nix is targeted towards server and workstations, ok we NEED those.

Win** is targeted towards making moeny, ok the stock market likes this.

MacOS is targeted towards people that don't like the expand their minds They need to be discarded.

And for the hobbyist there is free *nix (linux, *BSD) (and what ever GNU HUD is) and x86 hardware, old SGI/SUN equipment, OSS, lego mindstorms, HAM radio networks, etc. etc.

So What exactly is this OS going to try and fit in, from my POV it looks like all positions are filled. We could dump Win** and MAC and stick the mindless droids on Amiga boxes

Re:FUD FUD FUD FUD! (1)

Frederic54 (3788) | more than 14 years ago | (#1790264)

Neutrino does SMP and works on x86, PPC, SH3, SH4, Arm, StrongArm, and others
10% of the kernel (which is 40Kb) is CPU dependant, after written this 4Kb assembly or other, you just have to recompile the OS and that's it
--
http://www.beroute.tzo.com

Re:Hell hath no fury like QNX scorned. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790265)

And are we not in agreement that even though BeOS is Wicked Cool(tm), Be Inc realistically doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell?

Be needs really cool hardware to show it's stuff; running on an x86 doesn't really cut it. It's too bad that Amiga and Be won't dance.

Re:Question? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790266)

Never heard of Gateway then ?


So gateway(the cow box people) is doing it? That doesn't make sense why don't they just use x86 hardware then??

Lying dope! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790267)

Call up QNX right now, and tell them you'd like to purchase an OS from that that will use SMP and run on PowerPC and you need it within a week.

They are saying it will in the future.. Thats BS today.

Re:The High road and the Low road (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1790268)

Embracing the Linux kernel is the only chance Amiga really has of creating a place for itself.

XFree86 running on top of Darwin would have been interesting. X and a POSIX API, which means lot's of apps, and the fun of stealing Apples OS out from under their nose, and doing it legally, since it's open source.

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