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Are Vertical Mice The Next Ergonomic Trend?

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the call-me-when-it's-good-for-fps-games dept.

Input Devices 252

ThinSkin writes "Devoid of kookiness like many of its ergonomic counterparts, the VerticalMouse 2 is shaped like an ordinary mouse, only turned 90 degrees so that your arm is in a natural 'handshake position.' ExtremeTech's review of the VerticalMouse 2 suggests that its horsepower and familiar feel make it a worthy candidate to replace a horizontal mouse. Some of the drawbacks include its $75 price tag and difficulty to pick up in 3D gaming scenarios."

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252 comments

On trends ... (5, Funny)

popra (879835) | more than 8 years ago | (#14663845)

... yeeesss, this 'handshake position' seems very familiar somehow.
Seriously though, might I suggest inventing a self cleaning keyboard/mousepad.

Re:On trends ... (5, Funny)

skoaldipper (752281) | more than 8 years ago | (#14663991)

Trends indeed!

First they turned the computer case itself on edge. Then the mouse.

But I'm a tradionalist at heart. I will just lie sideways atop my office desk to restore balance to my universe...

Re:On trends ... (4, Interesting)

Otter (3800) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664021)

The really trippy thing is the vertical keyboard [extremetech.com] reviewed on the same site.

(BTW, I think you missed the OP's point...)

Re:On trends ... (3, Funny)

skoaldipper (752281) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664107)

Oh, yeah, I saw the keyboard too. Pretty slick. I plan on resting my head right there in the middle between the flaps. It should help drown out the Britney Spears music coming from two cubicles down.

Re:On trends ... (1)

bandannarama (87670) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664246)

You're male, aren't you? I suspect women have been very familiar with the "usual" hand position all along.

A step backward (4, Insightful)

TripMaster Monkey (862126) | more than 8 years ago | (#14663847)


If you compare the design of the VerticalMouse 2 with the Quill Mouse [extremetech.com] , you can see that they're virtually identical...with one important difference. The Quill Mouse is equipped with a shelf where the edge of your hand rests. The VerticalMouse 2 has no such shelf. Without a support for your hand, you'll have to support the weight of your hand by:
  • resting it in an abnormal position on top of the VerticalMouse 2, thereby completely negating the advantages of a vertically oriented mouse,
  • the use of your arm muscles, leading quickly to fatigue and muscle strain,
    or,
  • clinging to the vertical surface of the mouse with your fingers and/or thumb, again leading to fatigue and muscle strain.

Now add to all this the discomfort the large-handed will suffer as the edge of their hands develop friction burns against their desktops.

Any way you slice it, this product is a bad design and a non-starter. Save your money.

Re:A step backward (-1, Troll)

slughead (592713) | more than 8 years ago | (#14663909)

Without a support for your hand, you'll have to support the weight of your hand by ... the use of your arm muscles, leading quickly to fatigue and muscle strain

If you get muscle strain just by moving a mouse, perhaps you should consider leaving your apartment/mom's basement more often.

Re:A step backward (2, Insightful)

Goldfinger7400 (630228) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664030)

Try holding your arm out in front of you for a couple hours on end and tell me it's a fitness problem.

Re:A step backward (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14664072)

I'm a bike rider and I don't have this problem.

It really is a fitness problem.

Re:A step backward (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14664218)

I'm a bike rider, too, but I wear a helmet.

This is not a fitness problem. It's a design problem.

Re:A step backward (1)

BBobberson (922215) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664336)

Do you hold your hand in the air, or does it rest on the handles? I'm suspecting you rest your hand, because otherwise you couldn't steer. The parent is talking about holding it out in the air unsupported for hours.

Re:A step backward (1)

ichigo 2.0 (900288) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664177)

For some reason the G-GP's post gave me a mental image of VM2 users having their mouse arm 10x the size of their other arm after prolonged usage. :P

Re:A step backward (1)

Gulthek (12570) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664429)

So the Dilbert, "I'm still pumped from using the mouse." quote would actually be heard in real life?

Re:A step backward (1)

heinousjay (683506) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664347)

I don't know anyone who uses a mouse for hours steady without moving their hand somewhere else.

Aside from that, yeah, I agree with the AC who also replied - if you're in any kind of decent shape, constant resting positions aren't necessary.

Re:A step backward (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14663937)

Is your mousepad coated in broken glass? Mine isn't, so if I bought this mouse, I could always just rest the side of my hand on the mousing surface of choice.

Re:A step backward (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 8 years ago | (#14663961)

Now add to all this the discomfort the large-handed will suffer as the edge of their hands develop friction burns against their desktops.

I am one of those large-handed people. In fact, my hands are so large that when holding my current mouse of choice - the basic logitech scroll mouse - that both the area behind my thumb AND the right side of my hand including the right side of my pinky are rubbing on the table when I mouse. Thus, this won't be any worse.

Re:A step backward (1)

burning_plastic (164918) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664113)

I have moderately large hands and I have found the most comfortable solution is actually a trackball (logitech marble mouse).

I can comfortably rest my hand on the table, use two fingers to move the ball, and have a finger and thumb on a button without having to stretch.

I also have access to scroll buttons with minimal movement.

Re:A step backward (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664163)

Yeah, I'm about to order a Logitech TrackMan Wheel for work, via the magic of the requisition form, because I have arm/shoulder problems. I'm thinking about getting a split keyboard, too...

Re:A step backward (1)

jacksonj04 (800021) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664329)

Try a mousemat with a wristrest. My hands are reasonably large, and I've found that if I get acceleration and sensitivity right I can reach my entire screen without needing to lift my wrist at all. Wish I could say the same for my keyboard, bloody RSI...

Re:A step backward (4, Informative)

Hays (409837) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664057)

I used an evoluent vertical mouse for months. Where did I rest my hand? On the mousepad. Maybe if you have small hands this is an issue?

As it happens, the vertical mouse didn't seem to help at all with my RSI.

Re:A step backward (3, Insightful)

jgc7 (910200) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664194)

Is it just me or am I the only person in the world who wrests their wrist on the mousepad and moves the mouse with my fingers. With this new mouse it looks like I would have to operate the mouse like a toddler and move my entire arm. The shelf design seems to only exacerbate the problem.

Re:A step backward (1)

honestmonkey (819408) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664354)

Sorry, but this just isn't the case. I used the mouse and it was fine. For my own purposes, it wasn't exceedingly better than a regular mouse. I use a wireless mouse, if the Evoluent was wireless, I might have liked it better. But the resting of the hand was not an issue. It may look like it would be a problem, but it turns out not to be. Does the mouse take a little getting used to? Yeah, some. The learning curve was small. I can't say for sure if a shelf would have helped or not.

There are also mice that are joystick-like (my wife uses one at work), and a bulkier model that seemed interesting but would not have fit on my keyboard shelf.

Re:A step backward (2, Informative)

UVABlows (183953) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664360)

I have a quill mouse and it worked wonders for the pain in my wrist and forearm. I can't get linux to recognize clicking the scroll wheel though. It works in windows.

Dr. Benway perhaps? (5, Insightful)

rueger (210566) | more than 8 years ago | (#14663848)

A main driver for this is the desire to reduce the risk or pain associated with carpal tunnel syndrome and other RSI disorders ... The idea is to allow your arm to control the mouse in a more natural position, with the thumb up, in a hand-shaking position. Doctors who specialize in ergonomics consider this position preferable.

I have to ask, did anyone at ExtremeTech actually talk to a doctor who specializes in such things, or were these comments lifted from an Evoluent press release?

The reality of RSI is just so, so much more complex than these simple solutions would suggest.

Although how can you argue with a review like this [evoluent.com] :

Gained all the votes in terms of comfort and facility of use, of "look", colour and sympathy: the panel as a whole totally adhered to this new product.

Re:Dr. Benway perhaps? (1)

temojen (678985) | more than 8 years ago | (#14663930)

the panel as a whole totally adhered to this new product.

(runs off to buy stock in a cyanoacrilate manufacturer)...

Re:Dr. Benway perhaps? (1)

c_fel (927677) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664027)

I am very sceptic with these mice that are designed to reduce pain. Personally I use my mouse everyday and all day (like many of us) and I never ever felt even a small pain. Since I play piano for 20 years now, I'm just used to have a correct position. That's all it takes.

Sometimes I feel all these great shapes are very just a marketing thing : Sure, a new ergonomic mouse with no effort involved sells a lot better than a label with the correct position written on...

0.02$

Re:Dr. Benway perhaps? (1)

nbert (785663) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664182)

Carpal tunnel syndrome is usually associated with heavy use of the keyboard. It might be possible to archive the same syndrome with a mouse, but I don't know of any company looking for hardcore gamers right now (it's not like I wouldn't appreciate it).
 
So in my opinion this is just marketing bs, because I can't think of any work related field involving the use of a mouse for 8 hours a day...

Re:Dr. Benway perhaps? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14664280)

Ever used PhotoShop?

Vertical not the answer (5, Interesting)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 8 years ago | (#14663854)


Ages ago I had a Gyration GyroMouse which totally kicked butt. With a mouse free from having to make contact with a horizontal surface, plus the fact I clicked with my thumb, rather than stressing my index finger, I found it to be a natural and easy feel. The only caveat was as the mouse remained in my palm the piezo-gyros would warm up a bit and the mouse would drift a little, but recalibration wasn't hard to do. $75 isn't an issue when you're talking about getting a superior mouse.

Poo. I've got some real ideas on how a mouse really should work, which could allow hands to remain on the keyboard, but after seeing an idea of mine ripped right off of /. and for sale on ThinkGeek, you can guess why I won't post any of these ideas.

and it makes toast, too!

Re:Vertical not the answer (2, Interesting)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 8 years ago | (#14663997)

There are some MEMS single-chip accelerometers out there that could be adapted to mouse use. Would make an interesting device.

Gyro Mouse (1)

ImaLamer (260199) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664457)

I have one of these for my HTPC (ok a 900MHz/192MB/5 year old PVR) and you are exactly right. It allows you to use it at any angle and works perfectly for those who just need to move a bit every now and then to get comfortable. In fact, since the device easily resets when you use it there are no calibrations needed.

Works great as a desktop mouse because of the featured optical eye and comes with a great recharging stand (I love the way the LED throbs as it is being charged!).

I would just warn against leaving the mouse on a reflective or glass surface. I tend to leave mine on our glass coffee table where the laser thinks it saw something move... ALL DAY LONG. The laser bouncing around in the glass, combined with cats and feet under the table make the battery die a real quick death.

The next big thing? (3, Insightful)

Andrew Aguecheek (767620) | more than 8 years ago | (#14663857)

Basically, no they're not. No more than we are ever going to drive our cars using joysticks or keyboards. People like what they're used to. This is a gimmick. Move along, nothing to see here.

Re:The next big thing? (1)

babbling (952366) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664058)

I agree that this is a gimmick and certainly isn't the "next big thing", but I disagree that it is only because "people like what they're used to." I think if something were designed that really was better, inertia (people liking what they're used to) wouldn't stop it from eventually catching on. First of all, mice with scroll-wheels already are 3-dimensional input devices, so this isn't much of an advancement. The only improvement here is that the third (scroll-wheel) dimension becomes as mobile as the other two dimensions. This product will fail because that advantage is out-weighed by the fact that: a. The third-dimension goes back to 0 unless you keep your hand in the air. (tiring!) b. It will be significantly less precise because people cannot keep their arms still in the air while holding it, and because it won't be able to figure out its position as accurately as a desk mouse would be able to. c. People do not want to wave their arms around in the air, holding a device. That's stupid. (disclaimer: Gloves *might* work, one day...)

Re:The next big thing? (1)

babbling (952366) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664080)

Damnit! Sorry about the formatting.

I agree that this is a gimmick and certainly isn't the "next big thing", but I disagree that it is only because "people like what they're used to." I think if something were designed that really was better, inertia (people liking what they're used to) wouldn't stop it from eventually catching on.

First of all, mice with scroll-wheels already are 3-dimensional input devices, so this isn't much of an advancement. The only improvement here is that the third (scroll-wheel) dimension becomes as mobile as the other two dimensions. This product will fail because that advantage is out-weighed by the fact that:

a. The third-dimension goes back to 0 unless you keep your hand in the air. (tiring!)

b. It will be significantly less precise because people cannot keep their arms still in the air while holding it, and because it won't be able to figure out its position as accurately as a desk mouse would be able to.

c. People do not want to wave their arms around in the air, holding a device. That's stupid. (disclaimer: Gloves *might* work, one day...)

Re:The next big thing? (1)

kundor (757951) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664412)

What the hell are you talking about?

This isn't a gyroscopic or 3d-mouse, it's just a normal mouse that's shaped differently.

Re:The next big thing? (1)

ZeroExistenZ (721849) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664101)

This is a gimmick

Tell that to the people suffering RSI [wikipedia.org] . I hear my girlfriend complain alot about pains, from her wrist to her neck since even though she just uses a PC about 2 hours a day compared to my +11hours for my work,research and entertainment. After working for hours, I often feel strained too much to handle a mouse. (I'm well adjusted to do most with the keyboard, but some interfaces force manipulated with a mouse.)

I welcome all alternatives which eliminate that, PCs are not to be thought out of the jobplace anymore. There's no need for your employees ending with healthproblems, and eventually being a strain to the healthsecurity system. (not the US-type system.)

People like what they're used to.

That's why we transport ourselves on horses, heat our homes with wood we go chop in the forrest, get home after a long day of work and tune in on the radio while our partners knit our sweaters after a nice meal consisting of the animal we slaugthered in person. And that's why we row across the ocean, or use steam.

Spam, spam, spam.... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14663865)

Slashdot: Ads for nerds, stuff that panders...

Are advertisements the new Slashdot trend? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14663870)

Oh wait - it's been going on for years.

Trackball (4, Informative)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 8 years ago | (#14663871)

Trackballs are the way to go. I don't know why we ever chose a mouse over a trackball. They are much easier, as you don't have to move your hand/arm all over the place. Only your fingers and thumb move. Since switching to a trackball, I have much less problems with wrist pain. Also, I find that trackballs are more accurate, and work greate for PC gaming, because you don't have to lift and reposition it every few seconds.

Re:Trackball (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14663965)

Trackballs are awesome and I've never had any RSI problems using them. The only issue I have with trackballs and gaming is that some moron had the bright idea to replace the three button Logitech Marble trackballs with two button versions with a scroll wheel (that also acts as a tiny third button). I had become so used to my three button Logitech Marble trackball that it is very difficult to game with my 2+scroll wheel Logitech Marble that I recently got. I even tried a Microsoft trackball before that but the damn ball had so much rolling resistance that it was completely useless for gaming. When I spin the damn ball it better keep spinning four or five times until I stop it. The Microsoft one had so much friction it'd stop after a half turn.

Re:Trackball (3, Interesting)

NeoSkandranon (515696) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664015)

Trackballs are okay for some types of PC games, RTSs and RPGs in my experience, but for a fast paced FPS it seems just too hard to keep looking in all directions as well as aim accurately using just a thumb. In those situations a mouse gives you much finer control. You also still at some point have to reposition your thumb, when you spin the ball a full half turn.

Now that I think about it, I suppose the sensitivity of a trackball could be adjusted so that a 'flick' of the thumb moves the player's viewpoint approximately the same as pivoting the wrist would move a mouse, which would equialize things a lot, but I'm still not convinced you'd be able to react as quickly.

Re:Trackball (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14664074)

If you use a trackball that is controlled by your thumb rather than your fingers then you are using the wrong type of trackball.

Re:Trackball (2, Informative)

Seraphim_72 (622457) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664079)

Amen to that brother.

My personal choice is the MS Trackball Explorer [microsoft.com] . Wonderfull design, acurate optical and very nice drivers in MS (holy buckets does mouse button control in linux blow chow). As fate would have it they got discontinued. I snapped up 3 that I plan on slowly doleing out over the years even though my current 3 (2 at home, 1 at work) work great and have for years. I looked around quite a bit before I bought the three, but found nothing that came close to it's ergonomics, and abilities. And no, don't suggest a thumb type trackball, I have used a few and it makes my thumb hurt just looking at them.

Sera

Vertical Trackball? (1)

darkmayo (251580) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664135)

I love my trackball too but a vertical Trackball might be pretty nice too, did a quick google search but wasnt able to find any. Is there such a device?

Re:Trackball (1)

klui (457783) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664156)

Mice allows you to interact with the desktop metaphor via your index finger. Trackballs do not permit this metaphor. But with that said, I can only use a trackball due to RSI and I swear by one inbetween (can use either hand) an IBM SelectEase.

Re:Trackball (2, Insightful)

Feanturi (99866) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664421)

Actually, I'm totally the opposite and can't see how trackballs ever even got a chance. Personally, trackballs drive me completely insane. With a mouse, if I want to make a small movement and then have the pointer just sit there, I don't have to keep taking my hand off of the mouse, I just rest. With a trackball, I have to keep taking my finger or thumb off of it because, I don't know about you, but I haven't got 'surgeon's hands' that stay rock solid still while being suspended by their muscles. No I don't have any kind of 'tremors' I just find it difficult to keep a finger perfectly steady that is not resting on something solid. So then I put my digit back onto the trackball and 'zoom' there goes the pointer off in some random direction while I get my bearing again on what part of the ball I'm on... No trackballs at all for me, thanks. More for you I guess, so we both win. :)

3D gaming is on the way out anyway (1)

pmancini (20121) | more than 8 years ago | (#14663880)

I am hardly a trend setter. That said, I finally got disgusted with the equipment treadmill that gaming was putting me through and went 100% console for gaming. Sure, its not the same and sure, it took a while to get used to the console joysticks but now I wouldn't go back. As much as I will miss some types of games that are only possible with complex interfaces like what is possible with a mouse and keyboard, I am thankful I don't have to deal with video/sound card upgrades every year. Battlefield 2 is what totally did me in, BTW.

The mouse looks interesting and probably would do wonders for coding, document creation and other more useful things than 3D gaming!

--Pete

Re:3D gaming is on the way out anyway (2, Insightful)

AstrumPreliator (708436) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664092)

Console gaming is largely 3D gaming as well. So if PC 3D gaming is going out, then so is console gaming and frankly I don't see either of those happening.

And as far as the upgrade thing is concerned, you buy a new console every few years, why not some new hardware every few years? You don't have to have the latest and greatest always you know. Just IMO though.

Re:3D gaming is on the way out anyway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14664252)

And as far as the upgrade thing is concerned, you buy a new console every few years, why not some new hardware every few years?

Because the PC hardware upgrade cycle is much much more expensive. The poster mentioned that Battlefield 2 was the game that made him switch to console. For that game you do need to have the latest and greatest (almost) just to play it. A lot of new games also have extreme hardware requirements e.g. Quake 4, Call of Duty 2 (!), Doom 3 (when it first came out).

A new console costs $200-$400 every 4 years. If you want to play brand new games in the PC gaming world you might pay $400 for a new videocard every year and in 4 years have spent $1000 in other upgrades. $300 versus $3000 is the difference between gaming on console or gaming on PC. This is my personal experience and I still can't play PC games at their maximum settings because I can't afford the latest and the greatest. If you want real top of the line PC hardware expect to pay up to $10,000 over a 4 year period.

wrist (1)

IceFox (18179) | more than 8 years ago | (#14663906)

You still move your wrist so it wont cut it unless there is a trackball for the thumb. I have contemplated slapping some wood on a logitech trackball to have it be upright similar to this mouse and seeing just how good it can be.

Nothing like discrimination... (5, Interesting)

jferris (908786) | more than 8 years ago | (#14663921)

$75 for the righty version. It is $105 for the lefty version. No wonder lefties are continually forced to conform to a right handed world. It was bad enough going to Catholic school, but I thought that the lefty-discrimination was over once I broke out...

Re:Nothing like discrimination... (1, Informative)

imsabbel (611519) | more than 8 years ago | (#14663987)

Do you want some cheese to that whine?

If you get the left/right handed ratio to 50:50, so that both items are produced and shipped in the same quantities, you can expect them to cost the same.

Mod Parent Up (1)

voxel (70407) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664082)

This is totally true, and is not TROLLBAIT.

You pay more for left handed equipment because manufacturing costs are dramatically higher when you don't make as many on an assembly line. Point blank.

Re:Nothing like discrimination... (1)

garoo1980 (893796) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664189)

I hear ya brother. Its a cruel world out there. Scissors are a left handed man's worst enemy

So I trade carpal tunnel? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14663936)

For tennis elbow?

It won't catch on... (2, Insightful)

aardwolf64 (160070) | more than 8 years ago | (#14663959)

One of the major reasons that the standard mouse caught on is that a 2-year old child can understand the concept of reaching out and grabbing something. The traditional mouse layout mimics this behavior. This 90-degree rotated mouse is counter-intuitive to reaching out and grabbing...

Long story short, you might like using this mouse but don't count on it ever replacing the current "horizontal" mouse for standard users.

Re:It won't catch on... (1)

sehryan (412731) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664224)

Except that thumb-on-top is the natural position for you hand. It is the natural state of your hand and arm, and forcing them to remain in any other position is causing your muscles to work. If you pay attention, you naturally grab most things with your hand in this position.

However, I do agree that a sideways mouse makes little sense at first glance. But I wonder if that has to with the fact that we are so used to the way they work. I would be interested to see how a two-year old child actually grabs and holds a mouse when exposed to it for the first time.

In either case, in terms of ergonomics and "inherent" usability, nothing really tops a pen tablet. Most people who have ever held a pencil understand it immediately. And the two-year old will naturally grab the pen and address the tablet in a thumbs-up position.

Re:It won't catch on... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14664276)

More importantly it isn't Quake optimized and everyone knows that games and porn drive technology...this thing doesn't have a chance unless that handsahake does something for porn surfing.

Quick Answer: No (1)

eno2001 (527078) | more than 8 years ago | (#14663989)

The only way to overcome the problem of carpal tunnel syndrome with regard to computer interfaces is to get rid of physical input devices altogether. Voice, eye tracking, subvocal implants, those are the input devices that will rid us of the current spate of RSI and the limitations of the WIMP paradigm. Imagine not needing to even have a screen but just knowing the reply you got from your computer inherently. That's where we're headed in the next 10-15 years. This is just a ploy to garner some money from people who have a problem that isn't beaing dealt with correctly. It's a lot like the flagellists of the days of yore. They whipped themselves because they believed it was the only honest way to talk to god. These days they've wised up and just pray internally. Same thing. Make sense?

Some problems... (1)

IAAP (937607) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664085)

Voice, eye tracking, subvocal implants, those are the input devices that will rid us of the current spate of RSI and the limitations of the WIMP paradigm.

Well let's start with the eye tracking. It would be completely useless for imaging applications. Well, for one thing, the mouse pointer would always be on any women's breasts and crotch.

The Voice tracking and sub-vocal, well, that wouldn't work for the same causes as the eye-tracking.

The WIMP paradigmn wouldn't work for people who are afraid of dangerous things. Oh, WIMP is an acronym - oops! Sorry!

____-click? (2, Interesting)

venomkid (624425) | more than 8 years ago | (#14663993)

So, if these take off, will we be top-clicking and bottom-clicking? Or maybe we'll renamed it index-clicking, middle-clicking and ring-clicking? Or maybe we'll just still call it left and right vestigially, sort of like the way we still click on 3.5 inch floppy icons to save files to other media...

*boggle*

Re:____-click? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14664338)

What kinda goofball OS are you using, anyway?

3.5" inch floppy icons...must be a Microsoft product...

no good for me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14664011)

As someone who fatigues easily using a mouse, I've just gotten accustomed to switching hands every few minutes. That doesn't seem possible with this new design.

A different type of vertical mouse: (2, Informative)

dickwolf (882711) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664013)

I've owned a few vertical mice like this [3m.com] , formerly known as "Dr. Mouse", now it's the "3M Renaissance" Mouse. I've had no complaints. Zero. They're fantastic. I'm using one right now. I got my friends hooked on them too.

Re:A different type of vertical mouse: (1)

Meniconi,Nando (666243) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664115)

Indeed, it saved my wrist. I use the large one, optical tracking, and works perfectly for office operation. No scrollwheel (get an upgraded keyboard for that). About $50 on Amazon.

My experience with these mice... (2, Interesting)

Hays (409837) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664034)

I have RSI problems in my hands and forearms and elbows. Not carpal tunnel syndrome- various inflammations that never seem to completely heal. Doctors have been little use, medical science doesn't seem to have caught up with RSI.

Anyway I tried a vertical mouse (from evoluent) for several months. Eventually I started to find it uncomfortable and switched back to a normal mouse. I never found it to make much of a difference one way or another.

I also use a Kinesis Essential keyboard, which I've also not found to make a big difference one way or another.

Re:My experience with these mice... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14664229)

Have you tried abstaining from jerking off? That usually makes a big difference!

No way (2, Insightful)

squoozer (730327) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664046)

I could see a tilted mouse working but full on vertical is a non-starter I think. My guess would be that vertial is to steep for the vast majority of people. Shaking hands is something that one does breifly and therefore I am willing to move my body into a less than optimal position. I don't find shaking hands particularly comfortable therefore I don't think I would find shakign hands all day with a mouse comfortable. Anyway, the big problem I see is that the mouse will tend to move away as you click. This makes sense as it has nothing to push against. A hand rest would solve that at teh expense of making the device clunky.

I don't trust it... (1)

SilentOneNCW (943611) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664067)

It looks like an electric pencil sharpener. The girl next to me agrees.

Re:I don't trust it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14664174)

You lie. You're on Slashdot. There are no girls within ten feet of you.

Re:I don't trust it... (1)

HappyDrgn (142428) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664236)

Wait a minute!? ... First vertical mice and then girls reading Slashdot? What have you done with reality?

hrm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14664069)

This could make looking at pr0n awkward

Nothing new under the sun.. (2, Informative)

the_rajah (749499) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664095)

More than a hundred years ago telegraphers discovered that a key that moved side to side instead of up and down and that allowed the hand to be vertical instead of horizontal greatly reduced the incidence of the dreaded "glass arm". There have been and still are lots of keys produced that take advantage of this. For one of the prime examples, see the productes still offered by Vibroplex. [vibroplex.com]

73

Wrist wrest (1)

wsanders (114993) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664100)

I find that any RSI-type discomfort I feel has more to do with poor wrist cushioning, particularly if the mouse is too close to the desk edge and the desk edge puts sharp pressure on my inner wrist or arm.

If you have wrist discomfort, be sure you're using a wrist pad to rule out that as a source of pressure.....

Twisted arm graphic (2, Insightful)

planetsphinx (712454) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664205)

Ok, on the graphic example of the "twisted" arm, the hand holding the regular mouse, is twised WAY to far.
(Link to graphic in the article here [ziffdavisinternet.com] .)
Also, it seems to me, holding the mouse in a 90 degree angle, like their many examples show, would stress my THUMB more than holding a regular mouse would stress my "twisted" arm..
Try it yourself. Hold your arm like in their example, pretend like your holding the 90 degree mouse. Now move your wrist 90 degrees, as if you were going to hold a mouse. I'm not sure about everybody else, but my wrist mostly moved, NOT my arm.
Nice try though.

What? (0)

autopr0n (534291) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664215)

Is there anything stopping you from using a regular optical mouse on the side of your monitor? Or, if you have an LCD a book or peice of wood or something?

"Vertical" (1)

VisceralLogic (911294) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664221)

Somehow, I was expecting not a mouse oriented differently, but a mouse that you would actually move in the vertical plane... it makes more sense now that I actually looked at TFA.

Works for me. (1)

Thanatos (15980) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664231)

I have one of these. It helped my wrist pain, a lot. I have one both at work and at home. It works fine for games, be it counterstrike or civ IV.

pure marketing (1)

burni (930725) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664242)

As a FPS-gamer I ask you one thing, how do you move your mouse ?
with the arm, or holding the mouse with in the fist ?

it´s different and sequenced, for not so fine movement, you engage your arm,
this is even different wether you are a high sensitiviy or a low sensitiviy player,

but when locking onto the target you use your wrist in combination with your fingers, it´s the natural fine motor movement, now think how would you
use a "vertical mice" I don´t think it will work with the fine motor movement,

simply because the "normal" mouse is a device dedicated to fine motor manipulations,

what can be done is to try to make the optical mice smaller so it would fit into
a pen-shaped form, so the "*Pinzettengriff"(ger) "tweezers griff"(transbloated ;) ) would be used to track the target which is part of our physical abilities
dedicated for fine motor manipulations.

So my conclusion simply identifies this as a marketing trick to sell more mice,
because since the first mice back in the days when IT pioneers invented things,

it had a ball, then the CCD-technology and embeded system got such good so
they could be used to track the motion of a mice, Hoorray no more mouse cleaning

the DPIs was pushed, this was the natural way of technical devellopment,
after that, not so long ago we got the laser/optical mice, with
such high resolution and sensitivity that noone except online gamers
would pay the prices,

so here we are, but the firms want to sell mices, so what you need for this :

- a Pro Gamer (a living, running organism, which is near to the common Web-AD)
who will say I play with it, I like it (I can buy me food for this)

- a designer he will sketch something, and will say it´s the best
ergonomic design, it will keep you from getting pain.

- a marketing man, a living sleezy something, a dangerous lifeform,
if you come to close in his range he will buzzword you and turn you into
a zombie, then he lay his egs into your carcass, you won´t die, but your money
is their ambrosia  :)

*Pinzettengriff - "put your thumb and his neighbour together like a tweezers",
this is it ;)

Didn't work at all for me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14664267)

The nurse at work gave me one of these to try when I requested the Logitech mouse I normally use. Probal I had with it was when I wanted to move the mouse to the left, I had troble doing it without pushing the mouse buttons. No good.

When I first got an office job, I had also recently started rowing/sculling. I started getting really sore one day, which I attributed to the rowing, so I took a couple of days off. It only got worse. When I finally went back, the paint subsided substantially. While this might not work for some here, I found regular exercise outside of the office has kept me from having any more problems...

Why do people on computers have so many injuries, but musicians, pianists included, seem to not have any?

The perfect mouse for cartoon characters (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14664281)

Um, where is the pinky supposed to go when you use this?

Looks like they had Mickey Mouse in mind as the user for this thing

Homer Simpson's Shoe (2, Informative)

kleptonin (901871) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664298)

My girlfriend uses the VerticalMouse 2 (photo [ziffdavisinternet.com] ) and it's come to be known in our circle of friends as "Homer Simpson's Shoe", mainly because of me constantly reminding her that it looked a bit like Homer Simpson's shoe. With some purple parts.

In any case, after using it for a few months, the pains she had been experiencing in her arm from using a regular mouse are gone.

I use a vertical mouse - my tips (1)

coljac (154587) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664332)

Like many of you I'm trying to prevent doing myself a permanent injury by mouse usage. I have a normal cordless mouse, a Logitech cordless trackman [compusa.com] trackball and a 3M ergonomic mouse [3m.com] (which is vertical but a better design than this thing I reckon). The 3M vertical mouse saved my wrist, but in recent months shoulder pain has started - there's a lot of repetitive shoulder movement with a vertical mouse. So I got the trackball, which is better, but a bit hard on the hand (the thumb in my case).

I definitely recommend a vertical mouse to save your tendons, but keep both plugged in - I find that switching between my 3 (!) mice is the best way to avoid over-stressing myself, or rather, to spread the stress out. If I had to choose one it would probably be the trackball right now (though it's the least precise of the mice) but the vertical mouse would be a close second.

Doesn't it seem strange that using a mouse can hurt you in the long run? But it's true.

Wacom board (1)

wilper (103281) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664358)

I use a Wacom board with a pen. The hand is at a relaxed angle, not horisontal, not vertical, somewhere inbetween.

Now these boards are a bit more expensive than those mice described in the article, but I think they cause less stress. Certainly so for gaming, as you already hold the pen in your hand, and moving it is no more work than moving the pen to the next line when writing with pen and paper.

I bought the board when I started feeling pains in my wrist after playing too much Diablo2, and the pain went away, I haven't had any problems since, and that was two or three years ago now.

Not new (2, Interesting)

Peregr1n (904456) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664366)

I used to sell these; maybe not this model, but this design has been around for at least five years. Good in theory - it eliminates the unnatural twisting of the hand - but in practice there's hardly a market for it.

The companies that sell these (I know, I used to work for one) aren't actually aiming for the disabled-by-RSI market - in practice, there's very few people who actually HAVE disabling computer related RSI, and those that do usually just cut down on the intensity of their computer use - who they're aiming for is big businesses (call centres and the like) who they try and scare with the 'Unless you buy ten thousand of these, your employees will get RSI and SUE YOU!!!' line. Nobody much buys it, except maybe in the USA.

Of course, the bottom line is, does it actually work? When selling this kind of thing I tried using this and a variety of other 'ergonomic' mice intensively, and most of them gave me more pain than a 'normal' mouse did - mainly because my use of a normal mouse adapts easily depending on what position it is in relative to me, whereas these vertical mice have to be used sitting straight at the desk with your hand and arm in the 'proper' position. Anything else - especially using it standing up - is extremely difficult and contorts your hand unnaturally.

I hate to piss all over somebody's design, but I've seen so many different 'ergonomic' mice come and go. None of them has caught on - the only one that has got close is Microsoft's curvy mouse, and that's just because MS had enough investment power behind them to put one in the box of every new computer. Interestingly, I haven't seen one of them for a while, all the same.

Why the evoluent vertical mouse is best (2, Informative)

Rhett (141440) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664422)

I recently tried over $500 in pointing devices to help with carpal tunnel from playing internet poker and I'm settled on the evoluent mouse. Here are some criticisms of other alternatives:

3M Mouse: Has no scroll wheel. That makes this mouse completely useless to me.

Quill Mouse: The "shelf" is made of hard plastic. I much prefer using huge soft mousepads and resting my hands on those.

Trackball: Fine for normal use, impossible to play 10 tables of poker with.

Air/Gyration mice: Fun for a few minutes, but tiresome longer than that.

Good idea (1)

countach (534280) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664441)

I already use my regular mouse with my hand vertical, my index finger drapes across the mouse to the button. This mouse would presumably make it more comfortable. I'm tired though of paying through the nose for hardware that is designed ergonomically. To try out all the interesting ideas would cost thousands. I wish there was some organisation which tested out all the neat ideas and then went to Dell and IBM etc and told them to make it mainstream.

Not for CAD/Photoshop (2, Interesting)

dindi (78034) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664446)

If you thought it was easy enough to move that mouse just a notch, before putting that dot, connecting that poly, etc .... with a normal mouse, your problems will multiply with that.

I am not a CAD worker nor a GFX designer, but mice annoy the hell out of me enough. I personally have a trackball, one that is an old Logi design, and that pointer has a approx 35 degree button surface, so the idea is not entirely new.
I actually beleive, that an angle smaller than 90 is more appropriate and a more natural rest.

But hey, what does that matter? I type all day on the console :) and when not - I use a trackball ...

summary: I think it is a really retarded design
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