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Nintendo's New Look

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the blue-ocean-red-ocean-all-kinds-of-water dept.

Nintendo 187

Forbes has an article talking with Nintendo of America's VP of Marketing Perrin Kaplan. She talks a little bit about Nintendo's upcoming plans, and the concept of the Blue Ocean. From the article: "For us, it's all about the experience, not if the technology allows you to play your game on the high-definition formats, which are now in such a small percentage of homes. Many independent sources tell us that experiencing current high-def games on a regular TV makes it near impossible to see everything clearly. That means the majority of homes are experiencing something lesser than what they bargained for. "

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187 comments

Misinformation abounds (4, Insightful)

TaxiZaphod (892500) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664244)

From TFA: Microsoft made the first move with the Xbox 360 three months ago, but with fewer than 700,000 units sold so far, gamers appear to be reserving judgment and waiting for Sony's PlayStation 3 and Nintendo's Revolution, both expected by the end of 2006. Raise your hand if you've seen unsold 360's lying around unsold at your local retailer. This kind of misinformation leads me to question the impartiality of the whole article.

Re:Misinformation abounds (1)

FidelCatsro (861135) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664305)

Are MS not meeting demand , or is there no demand .
Perhaps the sales figures are skewed , but from the data that no shops have them , you can not conclude they have more than 700,00 units sold , only that all units shipped have been sold / are being hidden to create demand (or something else similar ) .

Re:Misinformation abounds (1)

Winckle (870180) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664317)

I don't understand what your complaint is?
TFA states that the xbox 360 sales are weak, and you state that you have seen xbox 360s lying around unsold. Consoles lying around unsold would seem to be an effect of poor sales.

Re:Misinformation abounds (0)

XenoRyet (824514) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664436)

Xbox 360 sales are not weak. They have sold very nearly 100% of the systems that have left the factory. They have only sold 700,000 systems because they have only produced 700,000 systems, not because "gamers are reserving judgement"

Re:Misinformation abounds (1)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664451)

They only produced 700,000 units to create artificial demand and press. And yes, I've seen Xbox 360s lying around. I could go buy 10 right now if I wanted, easily.
Regards,
Steve

Re:Misinformation abounds (1)

XenoRyet (824514) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664503)

At this point I find the "artifical demand" theory to be highly unlikely. I think MS could have held back stock on the initial shipment to create such a demand. But the question is: When are they planning to cash in on this artificial demand?

It would be rediculous for MS to not take advantage of their hype durring christmas. Now that Xmas is past, we are into the window in which a potential customer might wait for PS3 or Rev. The fact that they are still apparently short stocked when the peak oppertunity for artifical demand has come and gone leads me to belive that they did in fact have a manufacturing problem.

Re:Misinformation abounds (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14664511)

You are a dirty stinking liar.

Re:Misinformation abounds (1)

Saige (53303) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664529)

Yeah, that makes awesome business sense.

Only in Slashdot land would someone think that selling FEWER of a product might be good for a company.

Re:Misinformation abounds (1)

hardburn (141468) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665251)

If a company can sell fewer units for a greater cost, then it might be good. You sell at the point where the price and number of units sold maximize your profit, not where you can sell the most units.

Not that this is what is happening with the 360. The eBay numbers prove that the 360 is sold way below equilibrium price.

Re:Misinformation abounds (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664661)

Where? Seriously? Do you mean buy 10 from eBay, paying $100 over retail?

I'm sorry, but claims like that require evidence, and I don't see that you got any. IF there were 10 Xbox 360s sitting around for sale somewhere, someone would already have bought them and put them on eBay for a healthy profit. Unless you're just sitting on them at some podunk gaming store to be a jerk or something.

Re:Misinformation abounds (1)

fwitness (195565) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665315)

Seriously, and I've said this before, the XBox 360 is not unfindable. It's difficult, and apparently largely dependant upon where you are, but they are out there. I still see five or six boxes at my local Toy's R Us, and I saw some at wal-mart too. This may not be true in your area, but they are there.

Re:Misinformation abounds (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14665402)

"F there were 10 Xbox 360s sitting around for sale somewhere, someone would already have bought them and put them on eBay for a healthy profit."

Oh please!

http://search.ebay.com/Microsoft-Xbox-360-Game-con sole [ebay.com]

People really need to see for themselves just how low the demand for the 360 is.

It seems Xbox fans have done a decent job of getting people to believe that 360s are going for incredible prices on eBay.

There are huge numbers of un-bid 360s just sitting on eBay. The majority of 360s are going for just barely above retail - most likely a net loss for the seller when you include tax and all the effort to buy the thing and put it up for auction and then ship it.

The only high prices for 360s on eBay are for people's buy it now numbers.

With how few 360s have sold worldwide and the tiny number of people bidding for and the almost retail prices they are paying on eBay, Microsoft has a full scale fiasco on their hands with the 360.

Outside of a fairly small group of diehard Xbox fans, demand or interest in the 360 looks to be about zero.

Re:Misinformation abounds (1)

RoadDoggFL (876257) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665545)

At this point, I wouldn't bother ordering on eBay. I've still yet to see these "stacks" of 360s anywhere. Sure, the resale market isn't what it used to be but there's still a lot of people who would buy the premium pack if they saw it lying on store shelves.

Re:Misinformation abounds (1)

Directrix1 (157787) | more than 8 years ago | (#14666049)

I have been to my Target twice this month. Both times they had several 360's on the shelf.

Re:Misinformation abounds (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14666065)

Japan. On sale for $100 below retail.

Re:Misinformation abounds (1)

ajd1474 (558490) | more than 8 years ago | (#14666866)

Well maybe you should set up an ebay store...there are about 250,000 folks in Australia who'd buy one rather than wait till March 23.

Re:Misinformation abounds (1)

TaxiZaphod (892500) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665606)

and you state that you have seen xbox 360s lying around unsold.

Nope, I didn't say that. Sorry for not spelling that out better. I was taking the exact opposite position.

Yes, 360s are becoming more available now, but this is a big change, even from two weeks ago, and certainly from whenever that 700,000 figure used in TFA came from.

Re:Misinformation abounds (4, Insightful)

Cutriss (262920) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664320)

Sensationalism aside, at least they're actually mentioning Nintendo. Usually these days, an article in Forbes about video games wouldn't even mention Nintendo, lest it take up valuable print space to be devoted to Microsoft and Sony.

I wouldn't complain too much.

Re:Misinformation abounds (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14664335)

*raises hand*

Re:Misinformation abounds (3, Informative)

Gr33nNight (679837) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664369)

Here are a whole ton of unsold Xbox 360s. Boy those are sure flying off the shelf!

http://img304.imageshack.us/img304/1277/360nosello utscreen0016aa6os.jpg [imageshack.us]

Re:Misinformation abounds (3, Funny)

Xzzy (111297) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664711)

Man, $38,800 for a 360? I wouldn't buy one either with that kind of markup.

And what's with those weird graphics they use on their posters, the squiggly ones. Did their printer break?

Re:Misinformation abounds (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14665181)

Man, $38,800 for a 360? I wouldn't buy one either with that kind of markup.

And what's with those weird graphics they use on their posters, the squiggly ones. Did their printer break?


That's yen, not dollars. And the "squiggly lines" are Japanese.

Re:Misinformation abounds (1)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665463)

Okay, smarty pants, if the signs are in Japanese, then how come there's a Chinese guy behind the counter?

Re:Misinformation abounds (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14665564)

Actually if we can see them behind the counter they're not chinese.

Re:Misinformation abounds (1)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665747)

Nevermind, bad humor that didn't work. I should have said "Asian" - that might have been more obvious.

Re:Misinformation abounds (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14664375)

Raise your hand if you've seen unsold 360's lying around unsold at your local retailer.

What's the response you're expecting from this question? Those of us who don't have plans to buy any of these consoles have no clue whether or not they're available. So, which way is the article skewed?

I'm not being cheeky; this is a genuine question. You can't just assume that we know whether the console is selling or not; I sure don't.

Re:Misinformation abounds (1)

RoadDoggFL (876257) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665316)

But you're not claiming it's not selling. He's saying that the claim was that the 360's low sales figures are due to gamers not buying them. That is a lie.

Also, you could know that it's not selling well by looking at the shelves of your local EB/Gamestop/Software Etc/err... etc when you go to buy a new PS2, GC, or PC game (or handheld, whatever). That would at least not provide you with proof that there's consoles just lying around in the US or Europe (the 360's failure in Japan is not news), which is all he was asking for.

Re:Misinformation abounds (1)

Echnin (607099) | more than 8 years ago | (#14666029)

There are lots of 360s lying around in stores here in Norway. Both Core Systems and the, er, bigger packs. The first Xbox also did it better in the US than Europe (IIRC the GC sold better? At least they were very close), though.

As for the Revolution, I think it'll be great. I'm not rich, so I won't be getting a 360 or PS3 anyway. Not going to buy that many games either, so being able to choose between 500 different titles won't really matter. As long as Nintendo can deliver fun games that won't cost a fortune, that's all that matters as far as I'm concerned.

Re:Misinformation abounds (3, Insightful)

bigman2003 (671309) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664390)

Many independent sources tell us that experiencing current high-def games on a regular TV makes it near impossible to see everything clearly. That means the majority of homes are experiencing something lesser than what they bargained for.

Do these independent (crack addict) sources not understand that you CAN switch your resolution to 480i with the current consoles that support HD?

On the 360 the games look fine...good...even 'great' (excluding King Kong).

Having the option of going HD doesn't mean that 480i gets worse.

Unless you work in Nintendo marketing of course.

Re:Misinformation abounds (4, Informative)

ziggles (246540) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665027)

A game optimized to look best at 480i will always look better at 480i than a game that was optimized for 720p and scaled down (assuming all other factors are equal).

Re:Misinformation abounds (1)

rsilvergun (571051) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665690)

Games written with a long draw distance in mind can be a pain at low res, especially multiplayer FPSes. Back in the day I used to play Shadow Warrior in 640x480 and had a hugh edge over the guys at 320x240 because I could see them accros the map and nail 'em with a railgun. In Morrowind, I set the draw distance high so I could avoid monsters that were too powerful for me.

Impartial, or lazy? (1)

michaeltoe (651785) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664514)

Wikipedia is good for one thing; illustrating how half-ass some people can be. Honestly I think a lot of bad reporting can be attributed to laziness rather than malice. Just because it has to sound interesting doesn't mean it really is... blah blah blah experts agree.

Re:Misinformation abounds (4, Informative)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664548)

Raise your hand if you've seen unsold 360's lying around unsold at your local retailer.

I admit that I don't have a "1337 Gam0rz B00t33k" in my town, but the local Wal-Mart has a stack of 360s available for sale. I personally don't care one way or another - I don't dislike MS any more than I dislike Sony - but your implication that the 360 is flying off shelves doesn't jibe with what I've personally seen.

Who cares? (1)

MikeFM (12491) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665543)

I've seen the games for the 360 and was just unimpressed. I haven't even thought of buying one. I'll probably buy a PS3 and the Revolution. The PS3 just because I've always been a fan of the quality of the PlayStation and the huge assortment of games available and the Revolution because it sounds really interesting. For me, XBox is a brand trying to replace PlayStation but not really pulling it off. They'd have to either really have some good titles available exclusively to them or Sony would have to really mess up for me to switch. I just don't need two $500 consoles so why would I switch to an unknown that isn't going to be compatible with what I already have? I'm getting the PS3 to play and the Revolution for the same reason I bought a Virtual Boy which is because I am interested in a company actually trying new things. Hopefully Revolution will be a bit more realistic than the VB. ;)

Re:Who cares? (2)

Meagermanx (768421) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665737)

Depending on the lineup, I'm probably going to get a Revolution. I'm not going to get an XBOX360 or a PS3, because they're really just more of the last generation, but I've been thinking about getting a Revolution ever since I got a DS, and saw how great that was. If they were four hundred, I wouldn't, but for two hundred or two fifty, it's well worth it.
 
Something that I think about when I think about the XBOX360 and the PS3 is that everything there is possible with worse graphics on the XBOX or PS2. With the NES, you could do stuff you couldn't do on the Atari. With the SNES you could have more sprites onscreen, and process more, so you could have cooler games. With the N64 you could get 3D games running, and with this generation you can finally fully enjoy 3D worlds. But this generation that's coming up on us, besides the Revolution, offers nothing we haven't seen before.

Re:Who cares? (1)

MikeFM (12491) | more than 8 years ago | (#14666178)

The only thing about the PS3 that really interests me is it's parallelism. The CPU has a lot of it going on and it's been rumored that it is designed to make plugging one Cell processing computer into another will let them divide tasks amongst them for more processing power. That sounds to good to be true but the PS3 does come with the proper arrangement of network ports to make it plausible.

Re:Who cares? (1)

cornface (900179) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667152)

Something that I think about when I think about the XBOX360 and the PS3 is that everything there is possible with worse graphics on the XBOX or PS2. With the NES, you could do stuff you couldn't do on the Atari. With the SNES you could have more sprites onscreen, and process more, so you could have cooler games. With the N64 you could get 3D games running, and with this generation you can finally fully enjoy 3D worlds. But this generation that's coming up on us, besides the Revolution, offers nothing we haven't seen before.

So for the SNES, having better graphics made the games cooler, but the PS3 and 360 suck because all they have is better...graphics?

Your logic is impeccable.

Re:Misinformation abounds (1)

volkris (694) | more than 8 years ago | (#14666194)

*raises hand*

Not that this proves anything either way. Just because there may or may not be units sitting in my Walmart doesn't mean there have been fewer than one million sold.

Re:Misinformation abounds (1)

chrismcdirty (677039) | more than 8 years ago | (#14666413)

Tonight I went to a Walmart that just opened this past week. Being the person I am, I just had to take a stroll through the game department, despite the fact I have not the money, nor the desire, for a new game. I did not see one Xbox 360 on the shelf. Neither did I see a PS2, GCN, or DS. The Xbox (original) section was nowhere to be found. Not even games. The only system on the shelf was 2 or 3 PSPs. What's that tell me? PS2, GCN, and DS are all selling out along with X360? Not likely. It could be that stores are keeping stock hidden from customers waiting for them to ask for them. It deters theft of an in-demand item. All that glass does is provide more to clean up when someone decides that they need to steal it.

Anyone feel that (0, Flamebait)

FinestLittleSpace (719663) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664248)

Nintendo of America feel so horribly faceless? The marketing is as false, impassionate and transparent as the crap Allard was throwing out a few months or so ago.

Just let Japan speak, please!

Re:Anyone feel that (0)

Zangief (461457) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664381)

I also think that NOA has made a mediocre job of marketing their products.

But Perry Kaplan sounds like your generic Marketroid. NOA should replace her with a generic Metroid!

Thank you, thank you. I will be here all week.

Re:Anyone feel that (1)

dogbowl (75870) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664531)

I'm right there with you. Have you seen the box art for the up coming Brain Training game?

One of the flagstaff 'blue ocean' titles, and they drop what I consider a great, descriptive name and then give it a bland photoshop job cover. The result fits in better with those 99cent self help books you see in the checkout aisle, rather than a hip adult mental excercise program.

I predict that the US market see's sales close to 1/4th that of Japan because of NOAs marketing.

Re:Anyone feel that (1)

FinestLittleSpace (719663) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664636)

I live in the UK and Nintendo of Europe/UK is much much much better - it's incredibly ruthless and they absolutely pummel trains and TV programs with adverts, but they're usually pretty nice adverts and usually have that 'Ninty Charm'. I just feel that NOA just... aren't.... Nintendo.

Learn what words mean. (2, Informative)

autopr0n (534291) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664783)

"impassionate" means almost the exact opposite of what you mean, in general. It means [reference.com] to make someone impassioned (it's a verb, not an abjective). Actually, there is one definition close to what you meant there, but it's pretty rare, I think. In fact, impassionate only appears in unabridged dictionaries. impassioned [reference.com] is a much more common word, and does mean the opposite of what you meant.

Re:Anyone feel that (1)

Bacon Bits (926911) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665323)

When did Nintendo become the red-headed stepchild of the console market?!

Oh, right. Sega died.

On the subject of Xbox 360s sold... (1, Redundant)

Winckle (870180) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664254)

"but with fewer than 700,000 units sold so far, gamers appear to be reserving judgment and waiting for Sony's PlayStation 3 and Nintendo's Revolution, both expected by the end of 2006. " Perhaps that has more to do with stocking issues than to do with lack of interest. Though I would like to believe that it is because of interest in the Revolution, I hope Nintendo do well this generation, as they continue to innovate, and produce excellent first party titles.

Re:On the subject of Xbox 360s sold... (1, Interesting)

seinman (463076) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664477)

"Stocking issues" is a myth. Every store i've been to in the last few months has had multiple xbox 360 units in stock. Just three days ago at Best Buy, they had a stack of 20 of them right on the sales floor.

Re:On the subject of Xbox 360s sold... (1)

Saige (53303) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664545)

Yeah, whatever.

I know plenty of people who want Xbox 360s, but can't find them to buy them. Someone I know got one last week - buy waiting outside a Costco for it to open. He got one, but the line outside the store was larger than the number of consoles they had available.

Perhaps there are scattered places where they have some sitting around, but they're in the minority.

Re:On the subject of Xbox 360s sold... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14664590)

Where are you from? I live in Chicago, and they're everywhere. Maybe Microsoft just isn't shipping them to some areas. All I know is, here, they're very easy to find.

Re:On the subject of Xbox 360s sold... (1)

gabebear (251933) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664901)

Plenty in Johnson City, TN.

The last several times I've been to EB they've had a bunch. You may have a problem finding the premium edition though... It was pretty retarded of MS to release a crippled version. You could always just pay an extra $30+ and get everything that's in the premium.

Re:On the subject of Xbox 360s sold... (2, Interesting)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664557)

The full version or the core system (without hard drive)? I wonder if thats causing the confusion- the full system being sold out, and noone being stupid enough to want the core system.

Re:On the subject of Xbox 360s sold... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14664593)

BULLSHIT! Where do you live?

Re:On the subject of Xbox 360s sold... (1)

cplusplus (782679) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664990)

Right now the only store that has a single XBox 360 within 10 miles of where I live is a Target, and it's the Core system, so no hard drive and component video cables. I know this because I called about 15 stores this afternoon. I've been waiting to find the Premium bundle, but they sell out within hours at every store they arrive at, and then are out of stock for at least a week or two. The core systems are usually gone in a day or two. It's been that way for weeks now. So, yeah, I'd say there are "stocking issues".

Re:On the subject of Xbox 360s sold... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14665191)

Microsoft is paying a marketing firm to have people sit around in message boards posting about their "desperate and futile search for a precious Xbox 360 that seems to be SOLD OUT EVERYWHERE due to INCREDIBLE DEMAND!!!"

Not that it really matters, but for fun you should make sure to try to get these people working for the marketing company to tell you where exactly they can't find 360s. Chances are someone reading and living in that town the person will claim to come from will pipe in about the stack of 360s the just saw a various stores in the city.

The lack of demand for the 360 is astonishing. It was clear that it was going to do poorly, but I don't think anyone could have forseen just how completely uninterested the gaming public is for the machine.

Re:On the subject of Xbox 360s sold... (1)

RoadDoggFL (876257) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665391)

Still haven't seen a single picture proving unsold Premium Xbox 360s in the US or even Europe...

Re:On the subject of Xbox 360s sold... (1)

Fridgey (907481) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664733)

One way or the other, it looks like Nintendo's going to be fine. They're well on their way to posting profits of over $1 Billion [ign.com] this fiscal year, up from $652 Mil last year. Considering they're just about the only company left that actually makes money from selling consoles, the release of the Revolution should be just one more boost to the company, in addition to their continued advantage over sony in the portable world.

Re:On the subject of Xbox 360s sold... (1)

ZedmanAuk (52694) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664931)

I don't think there are many stocking issues anymore. There were quite a few $400 360s at Target last night. I bought a Gameboy Advance however, because I made the mistake of introducing my wife to Animal Crossing and now I can no longer get any Gamecube time. ;-)

Clever strategy? (3, Insightful)

MMaestro (585010) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664277)

Inside Nintendo, we call our strategy "Blue Ocean." This is in contrast to a "Red Ocean." Seeing a Blue Ocean is the notion of creating a market where there initially was none--going out where nobody has yet gone. Red Ocean is what our competitors do--heated competition where sales are finite and the product is fairly predictable.

I think its safe to say that this strategy is going to be hit-or-miss. If Nintendo fails with "Blue Ocean" the Revolution (or whatever they end up calling it) will flop, simply because the market isn't there. If it does work though, Sony and Microsoft's "Red Ocean" will find themselves overfishing for a depleting market.

Re:Clever strategy? (1)

ADRA (37398) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664403)

Blue ocean implies bringing gamers out of people who aren't currently gamers; Hence, a sucessful Nintendo market expansion doesn't need to cut into Sony/MS sales. FPS players will still play FPS's. The only 'bleeding' would be 'red ocean' gamers tired of the same old crap being shilled to them and they decide to spend their dollars on something new.

Personally, I haven't owned a console since SNES/Genesis days. Anything thats been worth playing has been on PC and I've loved it. Now, I have an expanding interest in party games so that I can play games with friends that ARE NOT GAMERS. So, I picked up a GCube and it seems to be livign up to what I want it for. That's just one genre that is drastically the other contenders. All they need are a few 'hit' genre ideas to make a real splash in sales.

Re:Clever strategy? (2)

demeteloaf (865003) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664458)

If it does work though, Sony and Microsoft's "Red Ocean" will find themselves overfishing for a depleting market.

For some reason, i really can't see this happening. As long as there are going to be multiple platforms to release games on, there will be games like Madden, NCAA football, prince of persia (etc.) That have huge audiences, and developers will decide to release multi-console.

In my mind at least, multi-console releases hurt the revolution. In the current generation, all the consoles have reasonably similar hardware specs, and so while a game may look slightly better on the Xbox, playing the port of the game on PS2 doesn't change that much. However, with the revolution not supporting HD, and having noticibly worse hardware specs than Xbox 360 and PS3, multi-console games are going to look much better on the other consoles. I know if i had the choice of two identical games, one playng in HD with much better graphics, i'm going to pick that one every time.

What I see happening is if a devolper wants to be unique and fiddle with the new control system, they'll make a game for the revolution and see how it does, more mainstream games will just end up as PS3 and 360 titles.

Re:Clever strategy? (1)

Cecil (37810) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664826)

In my mind at least, multi-console releases hurt the revolution. In the current generation, all the consoles have reasonably similar hardware specs, and so while a game may look slightly better on the Xbox, playing the port of the game on PS2 doesn't change that much. However, with the revolution not supporting HD, and having noticibly worse hardware specs than Xbox 360 and PS3, multi-console games are going to look much better on the other consoles. I know if i had the choice of two identical games, one playng in HD with much better graphics, i'm going to pick that one every time.

Yes, but given the choice of one console, (which is a lot of people already, and it's going to be a lot more people now given the cost of the next-gen consoles) do I buy the one that plays Madden and Animal Crossing and Nintendogs and whatever other goofy but fun crap Nintendo comes up with, or do I buy the one that plays Madden and Halo 3 in HD?

"I" probably don't even have a HD TV anyway.

Re:Clever strategy? (1)

cornface (900179) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665636)

Yes, but given the choice of one console, (which is a lot of people already, and it's going to be a lot more people now given the cost of the next-gen consoles) do I buy the one that plays Madden and Animal Crossing and Nintendogs and whatever other goofy but fun crap Nintendo comes up with, or do I buy the one that plays Madden and Halo 3 in HD?

This is a disingenuous statement. If the Gamecube's current state is any indicator, you can play the fun crap that Nintendo comes up with (ignoring the fact that they put out a lot of turds, as well) and pretty much nothing else. OR, you can play the huge library of titles for the PS2, which includes a vast number of excellent third party and PS2 exclusive games that blow much of Nintendo's increasingly meager lineup out of the water.

I like Nintendo and I hope the Revolution can get them back in the game, but there's no reason to ignore reality.

Re:Clever strategy? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14665530)

What are the revolution's stats?

If you are going to say that it's only 2 to 3 times better, well then show me an xbox360 game that looks more than 2 to 3 times better than any new xbox game. Numbers don't exactly translate into performance.

Re:Clever strategy? (1)

tengennewseditor (949731) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664475)

Blue Ocean isn't a new strategy, and it has already been successful. Blue Ocean doesn't mean they have to open up a new market with every game -- they can build on the successful Blue Ocean franchises like Animal Crossing with very little risk.

Prodding the market (2, Insightful)

Dr. Eggman (932300) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664546)

We think there is an untapped nostalgia market: Gamers who grew up and cut their teeth on these older games could come back.


While I am very excited about greater support for this market, what exactly has Nintendo been doing with ports going as far back as Super Mario All-Stars, if not tapping this market? Exploratory Surveying?

Re:Prodding the market (1)

cowscows (103644) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665359)

Super Mario All-stars and the like are nice, but what they're planning with the Revolution is really a few good leaps beyond that. Re-releasing a couple of games from the most popular franchise in all of video games history is very different from making huge swaths of back catalog from multiple consoles available for download. Digital distribution truly is a whole new step in economics, because it avoids all the expensive things inherent in physical goods, like materials, shipping, shelf-space, etc.. The cost to add another game to this service will be almost negligable, and the amount of space available to store merchandise is a non-issue, so there's no reason not to make available everything Nintendo can get their hands on. That's great for consumers, who can be as picky or as spendy as they want, and it's great for Nintendo, because they've got lots of potential for profit without risking much up front.

Over time, this will happen with most forms of entertainment (music's well on its way), and the world will be a cooler place. Yay. This is a way bigger deal than a Dr. Mario cartridge coming out for the GBA.

Re:Prodding the market (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14665509)

Actually, they have a good reason not to release everything in the back catalog - a lot of it is crap. And I mean crap by 1994 standards, at least modern crap is pretty.
It would spoil everyone's warm glow of nostalgia. They will likely stick to games that actually stand up to being replayed.

Re:Prodding the market (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14666463)

Filters, fellow Coward. In Chris Anderson terms, post-filters [typepad.com] . But under the right system, even the crap is worth putting up there.

Nintendo is in trouble with the Revolution (0, Troll)

RzUpAnmsCwrds (262647) | more than 8 years ago | (#14664774)

Nintendo is in deep, deep trouble with the Revolution. They're like a car company saying to their customers, "You don't want a big SUV - you want our compact car with good fuel economy". While it may be true that most gamers don't have HD sets today, that's going to change in a big way in the next few years as digital TV becomes prevalent. Even the first-revision Gamecube offered 480p, and now Nintendo has abandoned that as well.

Nintendo made a number of bad decisions with the Gamecube, and it seems that they haven't learned. It's not about the "experience", it's not really even about the hardware - it's about the software. And while Nintendo is one of the best software development houses out there, they can't hold a platform alone. Why should I buy a Revolution when the 360 or PS3 has a better selection of games and is HD compatible? What's the "edge" on the Revolution? Being cheaper can't be it - Nintendo should have learned that with the Gamecube (which was $100 cheaper than the PS2 or XBOX on launch and continually stayed $50 to $100 ahead).

The 360 is an impressive hardware platform combined with an impressive software platform. Being able to plug in an iPod and play my tunes through the 5.1 system - while playing games in HD. Powering on (and turning off) the console from the controlers. Accessing music, recorded TV, and photos from my PC. Downloading indie titles for $5. The 360 brings a lot of new functionality to the table. What will the Revolution bring us? Only Nintendo knows. And that doesn't look good for the big-N.

Re:Nintendo is in trouble with the Revolution (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14664992)

The DS has shown it can be about the experience. The PSP has multimedia functions and better technology and has more traditionally successful console style games. Yet the DS is in the lead, I can only assume because it offers an experience that can't be found anywhere else.

Re:Nintendo is in trouble with the Revolution (1)

cornface (900179) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667105)

The DS has shown it can be about the experience. The PSP has multimedia functions and better technology and has more traditionally successful console style games. Yet the DS is in the lead, I can only assume because it offers an experience that can't be found anywhere else.

I'm sure it doesn't have anything to do with the GBA compatibility and Nintendo's nearly 20 year lock on the handheld market.

To look at it another way, the fact that Sony's portable is selling as close to the DS as it is should probably make Nintendoa a little nervous.

Re:Nintendo is in trouble with the Revolution (4, Interesting)

The-Bus (138060) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665110)

Your comment is interesting. You mention how awesome the interconnectivity of the 360 is (and you're right). But then you mention enjoying playing "indie" games for $5. With the exception of maybe Mutant Storm Reloaded and maybe Marble Blast Ultra, all the others games are about as non-HD as you can get. You don't need HD to play backgammon, or Bejeweled, or a billiards game, or any of the 1980s Midway arcade ports. You don't need an HDTV to enjoy Geometry Wars. Yet these are the games that are flourishing. Sure, they have some bells and whistles that take advantage of the hardware, but that's just that: bells and whistles. It shows there's a market for fun.

Now imagine something similar to Xbox Live Arcade, only the hardware is 1/3 the price. That could be very good.

Re:Nintendo is in trouble with the Revolution (5, Insightful)

C0rinthian (770164) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665121)

An amazing hardware and software platform get you nothing if you don't have the software to back it up. I've played most of the Xbox 360 titles that have been released so far, and nothing has really made me want to drop the $400 on the console. Honestly, the multimedia features are the biggest draw, but that's not saying much for a game console.

The PSP vs the DS is another excellent comparison. There is no question that the PSP is the superior piece of hardware. What does it have to offer? PS2 ports and clones, games that really aren't made to be portable. The offerings on the DS are MUCH more suited to the system and it's intended use. Hence, it is quite successful.

Re:Nintendo is in trouble with the Revolution (5, Interesting)

stringycheese (949470) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665131)

They're like a car company saying to their customers, "You don't want a big SUV - you want our compact car with good fuel economy".

Your analogy to the car market is a bit funny because it is right on and yet contradicts your point. I will admit that the SUV is a big market. Yet, not everybody wants a big SUV. A lot of people actually do want an economy car. Other people want sports cars. Other people want motorcycles. Have you been reading any news on General Motors? They posted record losses last year in the billion dollar range. Sales of SUVs were dismal in the second half of 2005. During the same time period, companies like Toyota and Nissan reported record sales of their mid-size cars. The demand in the market is changing.

In the same way, Nintendo is trying to target a totally different market and I think if this new controller works and they can produce fun games, they will see great success. Also, I would point out that unlike some companies, Nintendo has proven they actually can make a profit in the video game industry.

Re:Nintendo is in trouble with the Revolution (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14665223)

Why should I buy a Revolution when the 360 or PS3 has a better selection of games and is HD compatible?

What do you mean by a better selection? More, yeah sure they will have more, but better? I think you're assuming a lot there.

I think you should consider buying a Revolution when, like me, you've gotten a little bored of endless fps, third person shooters, sports games, and driving sims. You should buy it because, if they make a fishing game, you will cast by casting not by pressing "A." You'll swing a sword by swinging, not by pressing A. To shoot you would point and shoot, not by moving a stick and pressing A.I

Your clearly attracted to HD gaming, you mention it a lot, and I bet you're excited by it because it can make games more (photo)realistic, but understand that they way you can play a game can make it far more realistic than more pixels.

If you can't see why that, at the very least, you should consider the Rev over the PS3 & XBox, then you should re-think why you started playing games in the first place. I don't think it was to press "A" in HD.

Re:Nintendo is in trouble with the Revolution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14665683)

Isn't the main selling point of the Revolution controller that it'd be good for FPS games?

Big sweeping arm movements (sword swinging) will tire you out after a relatively short while.

Blue Ocean (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14665277)

It seems like you simply don't understand what the Blue-Ocean strategy is all about.

If you look at the history of the videogame market you will see one pattern emerging; that as time goes on, one of the platforms in each portion of the market eventually represents the majority of the users. Basically, you have one console everyone owns and one or two other consoles which did not even sell in the same league. Usually, the console which ends up being the market leader does not have better technical specifications and does not have more features; it usually is successful because it has the largest selection of interesting games.

Now what Blue-Ocean is all about is that when a market has too much competition you define a new market which you can thrive in; if the Revolution is successful it could define a completely seperate market (much like the Handheld market) where Nintendo can dominate.

Remember, except for DVD playback the Gamecube was a far superior piece of hardware to the PS2 (the XBox was in every way a better piece of hardware) and Nintendo produced several compelling titles for the platform (and Microsoft also had tons of good content on the XBox) and yet it never (for more than a week or so) even matched the sales of the PS2. At this point in time, Nintendo could produce a system that produced pre-rendered movie quality images, at 1080p, with every electronic device included in the system (including a toster) and sell it for $99 and they would still have problems selling more than the PS3.

Pure and Simple, if Nintendo wants to survive they need a new market ... Their plan in the only way they can go.

Re:Blue Ocean (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14665330)

"Remember, except for DVD playback the Gamecube was a far superior piece of hardware to the PS2 (the XBox was in every way a better piece of hardware)"

Way to make yourself look like an idiot.

Give the lectures a rest dimwit.

Re:Nintendo is in trouble with the Revolution (1, Insightful)

Brunellus (875635) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665441)

They're like a car company saying to their customers, "You don't want a big SUV - you want our compact car with good fuel economy"

Sounds an awful lot like what VW, and later Toyota and Honda said to their customers-- "You don't want that big lead-sled Buick! You our compact car with good fuel economy!"

Re:Nintendo is in trouble with the Revolution (3, Insightful)

bartyboy (99076) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665533)

Who are the crackheads that moderated this as Interesting? The post is full of mistakes that only somebody with an anti-Nintendo agenda would write:

On the subject of high definition:

Shigeru Miyamoto has said, "The majority of people won't be playing our system with an HDTV, though with the Revolution, 480p resolution will be standard."

While not 720p, it's still a lot better than SD.

On the subject of console prices:

Compare the PSP to the DS. The technical specs of the PSP leave the DS in the dust, but its pricetag leaves a lot to be desired. Parents don't want to buy a PSP for $280 when they can have a DS and three games for the same price. (Sorry, Canadian prices here) This helps explain in part the popularity of the DS.

On the subject of the ON/OFF button on the controller:

Look for yourself. [wordherders.net]

On the subject of "What will Revolution bring us?"

- Innovative controller and new game genres
- Downloadable games
- Online play

Read more here: http://www.revolutionreport.com/nintendo_revolutio n_faq [revolutionreport.com]

You're a troll, and not even a good one.

Re:Nintendo is in trouble with the Revolution (1)

demeteloaf (865003) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665808)

Shigeru Miyamoto has said, "The majority of people won't be playing our system with an HDTV, though with the Revolution, 480p resolution will be standard."

They also made a big deal how the GCN would play games in 480p, and now advertise that games support progressive scan, yet they force you to buy a used GCN if you want to play in 480p, because the new models of GCN don't even have a digital out anymore...

Re:Nintendo is in trouble with the Revolution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14666426)

I'm pretty sure everyone who wanted a cube for progressive scan already had one by the time they took the option out.

It was widely underused, so why waste the money keeping it in?

Re:Nintendo is in trouble with the Revolution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14665774)

MS is in deep, deep trouble with the 360. They're like a car company saying to their customers, "You want a big SUV - you don't want our compact car with good fuel economy". While it may be true that most people feel uncomfortable with the controllers today, that's going to change in a big way in the next few years as non-gamers becomes prevalent.

I could go on, but that's the essence: 360 has HD, Nintendo has the controller. It's a matter of choice.

Personally, I think that more people will choose the controller.

Re:Nintendo is in trouble with the Revolution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14666116)

Why should I buy a Revolution when the 360 or PS3 has a better selection of games

Exactly. When will the 360 have a better selection of games?

FUD (0, Troll)

maumedia (951250) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665003)

This sounds like a solid marketing strategy for Nintendo. If they can't do HD, then their best strategy is instilling enough fear, uncertainty and doubt in potential customers that HD games won't work on their existing televisions that people opt to wait for HD systems until they have an HD television.

And since a) "gaming journalism" consists almost entirely of reprinting or reformating press releases, and b) the internet is such a poor source of definitive information that you can find people backing up or debunking almost every piece of information in existence, they'll probably succeed in scaring enough customers into believing them.

It's a wonder Call of Duty 2 for the 360 made the top 10 in sales last month, considering that the general population is under the impression that the 360 overheats, eats disks and smothers babies.

Re:FUD (2, Informative)

clu76 (620823) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665559)

I fail to see the FUD in this. If anything, Nintendo is very much correct in their assertions about HD. Anyone that has a non-HD television pays for the HD feature of the 360, but don't experience HD gaming. And right now, that is an overwhelming majority of households. People keep saying that Nintendo is leaving a large portion of the market behind. But in reality, it is Sony and Microsoft that expect the market to catch up to them. By the end of this next gen console, you might have 50%+ HD penetration in homes.

Now I'm the exception to the rule. I have a 360 and a nice 62" HD TV. I'll share with you my take on HD gaming. The first few hours of gaming with my 360 I accidentally played at 480p (forgot to toggle the switch on the AV cable.) Before I realized this, I was still very impressed by next gen graphics. After switching over to HD, the picture did look sharper. But it was only a minor improvement. Especially compared to all the other advances in graphics. There is so much more we should be discussing about next gen graphics besides HD, but Microsoft and Sony have managed to frame the debate around this one narrow minded issue. If anyone is throwing out FUD, it's them.

That being said, I love my 360 (even though it ate my DOA 4 save file.) And I'm sure I'll love the Revo.

Re:FUD (1)

maumedia (951250) | more than 8 years ago | (#14666117)

My comment was not that Nintendo doesn't have a valid product point by excluding HD in exchange for a lower price point. It was that they were insinuating that the HD graphics somehow looked worse than SD graphics on an SD TV. The 360 plays with regular televisions just fine.

I'm with you. I have a Toshiba DLP, and I'm reasonably happy with my 360. Condemned was pretty good, COD2 was great, NFSMW is great, and DOA4 is good (yeah, ate my save file too), but all in all, the starting lineup is a dud. And aside from the lighting effects in NFS and just about everything in Condemned, they haven't made much of a case for HD graphics with most of the games out so far. If Condemned is any indication, though, next gen games are going to look sweet =)

Re:FUD (1)

random735 (102808) | more than 8 years ago | (#14666753)

i think the point is more that games designed to be played in HD look like crap in SD. (you can't see all the details, might be hard to see monsters, etc, because they assume you'll be playing at high-res and you're not)

games designed for SD play well in SD.

So all things being equal, people w/ SD are better off getting a system designed for SD.

Re:FUD (3, Informative)

packeteer (566398) | more than 8 years ago | (#14666292)

I have a unique perspective becuase i work in Redmond, WA testing the xbox 360 for a living. I have played just about every game on the market in HD and non-HD. Let me tell you that you are missing a LOT by not seeing it in HD. Many games such as Project Gotham Racing 3 is very difficult to play ona normal tv screen. The dark races are hard to see if the next turn is a left or a right. This system is made much worse when you must realize that not everyone has their optimal brightness/contrast/color ratios set. Many people turn up the brightness and contrast too high on their tv.

Games like DOA 4 as you mentioned are not as effected. You miss some of the finer tones on the skin btu the gameplay is alrgely uneffected. The game is brightly lit and there are not as many small details as in a dark racing game placed in a city.

Re:FUD (1)

Sean0michael (923458) | more than 8 years ago | (#14666736)

You are a brave soul for admitting you work in Redmond on /. and for that I tip my hat to you.

If it is indeed true that it is hard to play games that are designed for HD on non-HD TVs ("Many games such as Project Gotham Racing 3 is[sic] very difficult to play ona[sic] normal tv screen"), and most people now still have non-HD TVs, doesn't that imply bad sales for the 360? If most of the market will play games that the user has difficulty seeing, then what which is cheaper--buying a new TV to go with the game system, or getting a different system?

Seems like this is a point to Nintendo on this match. Their games will look good with what people have now, boosting sales over those whose games do not look good with what people own.

Consistency in numbers please.... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14665019)

I didin't finish the article.. just got to the part where it's ranting off all these numbers.. and it didn't make much sense to me..

700k xbox360s -- isn't that the US sales numbers?

13 Million DS -- Isn't that global sales?

82% of handheld software sales -- wouldn't that be including the GBA? but then its written in the same sentence that mentions the 13 million DS sales.

WTF is gonig on, where are these numbers coming from,.

Blue Ocean, Red Ocean (3, Interesting)

xxxJonBoyxxx (565205) | more than 8 years ago | (#14665717)

"Inside Nintendo, we call our strategy "Blue Ocean." This is in contrast to a "Red Ocean." Seeing a Blue Ocean is the notion of creating a market where there initially was none--going out where nobody has yet gone"

Looks like people at Nintendo have been reading this:

"Blue Ocean Strategy: How to Create Uncontested Market Space and Make Competition Irrelevant" (2005, Harvard Business School Publishing), by W. Chan Kim and Renée Mauborgne.

Ironically, it's also the book Ford cited when it took the knife to its belly a few weeks ago...
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200 6601230398 [freep.com]

Re:Ivory Tower, Builders Of Ivory Tower. (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 8 years ago | (#14666743)

Ironically, it's also the book Ford cited when it took the knife to its belly a few weeks ago...

You misspelled heart.

There's something good about a company that cant be had with doing things haphazardly cheap with slave labored components. It's only recently that "free market" measures have been implemented to green light something that looks nothing that is free trade, let alone being anything you could call "trade" wrt jobs. (Pro-globalization folks, please get out of the East/West coast and see flyover country for a while- and the Waltons dont count. They're exceptions to the "Dont Do Evil" Midwest.)

Knowing Harvard and how they damn well like to exclude(until somebody figures out how to do forcible no-nonsense admission and convince that it's better to keep the choice in the domestic student's hand), I presume the red ocean is the shark tank where every other idea goes against each other with nothing coming out alive.

Another look at Nintendo (1)

Onuma (947856) | more than 8 years ago | (#14666766)

Honestly, I haven't been a solely Nintendo guy since the NES was at it's height. I went the Sega Genesis route when it released and then to the Sony Playstation in the mid 90's. I've been a Sony guy ever since, though I do own a GBA SP.

Right now I'm on the bandwagon for the Playstation 3, but all of these innovations are making me reconsider. I have seen a ton of great games for the N64 and GameCube, and no doubt those franchises and new ones will be made with the Revolution. While I really want to stick with the games on Sony's train like the Armored Core or Castlevania series, Nintendo might put up some serious competition and I might find myself buying both. My wallet could be hurting when I get back from Iraq.

I kinda don't want to go back... (1)

wandazulu (265281) | more than 8 years ago | (#14666994)

She mentioned the untapped nostalgia market. Well, with MAME, NES emulators, N64 emulators, etc., the "nostalgia" is already there, a click away. The problem is that it's more for quick amusement...doing the remember when. Sure it's fun to fire up some of these games, but I'm not sure I'd want to play all the way through, especially since I did so several times on the original consoles.

I'm okay Nintendo downplaying the whole graphics war; they're right in saying that the game play is what matters most. Hell, I'll play a game with stick figures if it's fun. The problem is that a lot of ther earier games *were* fun, and while I'll always have fond memories of the first time Mario moved around a 3d world, I'm not sure I need to revisit it again.
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