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Eve Online Hits 100K Subscribers

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the that-is-a-lot-of-space-jockeys dept.

Role Playing (Games) 129

CCP Games' Massive Title, Eve Online, now boasts 100,000 subscribers. Though there are many games with more users Eve Online is a very different title, set inside ships in the depths of space. They currently hold the record for most concurrent users, set at 23,178 simultaneous users on a single server. From the article: "To help accommodate its growing population, CCP will complete a hardware overhaul, allowing the game to handle more users, expand its universe, and run smoother." Ethic, over at Kill Ten Rats, has been writing about Eve a lot lately. His posts cover intergalactic war and courier missions, and might give you a sense of what gameplay is like. If you're interested in that sort of thing.

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EVE-Online, not just for everyone (2, Insightful)

boog3r (62427) | more than 8 years ago | (#14666931)

Hopefully this wonderful community does not succumb to the disease known as 'Poplaritis'

I remember the days before Counter Strike was sold on store shelves... way more mature.

Re:EVE-Online, not just for everyone (5, Informative)

Corbu Mulak (931063) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667039)

I don't think it will. EVE takes a lot of patience, preparation, and time (not necessarily in-game time, just time to build skills up), whereas the more popular games with the annoying communities (CS, WoW) are pretty much "pick up and play" type games. They have their rewards mostly at the beginning of the games, and as you continue playing them you start running out of new options and your fun decreases. What I've found with EVE is that the more I play, the more fun I have, because there are actually MORE things to do.
The people who make up the majority of the community are people who stay with the game. There may be a few hundred accounts or so that are 14-day trial people that act like they are still in WoW, but the majority of the gamers will be players who have been playing the game for a while. It just happens that those people tend to be less annoying and "OMG I PWNED J00 N00BZ0RZ LOLOLOLOL."

Re:EVE-Online, not just for everyone (1)

iCEBaLM (34905) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667118)

How do you get one of these 14 day trials? I've looked over EVE and it looks interesting but I don't want to pay for a game that I'll never play.

Re:EVE-Online, not just for everyone (5, Informative)

Corbu Mulak (931063) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667156)

You can grab it here [eve-online.com] . The client is free, and if you want to continue it is $30 (american) for a "real" key (30 free days), and something like 13 or 14 bucks a month after that (standard MMO fare)

Re:EVE-Online, not just for everyone (1)

iCEBaLM (34905) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667229)

Thanks lots! I'm going to try it out!

Re:EVE-Online, not just for everyone (1)

Corbu Mulak (931063) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667240)

No problem. Just remember to do the tutorial. It takes a while (and I mean a while...it took me like 3 hours to it), but it explains pretty much everything you need to know to get started.
Plus, if you don't do it, and you ask for help, you won't be very well recieved.

Re:EVE-Online, not just for everyone (2, Informative)

willfe (6537) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667569)

Actually, you can get game time a *lot* cheaper; it's $14.95 a month, or you can grab a game time code off eBay (I paid $38 for three months of game time). The cool part is if you do subscribe (by paying them directly or by getting a game code), they still let you have the first 14 days free (they don't cancel/kill the free time you have left when you become a paying member).

Re:EVE-Online, not just for everyone (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667200)

More things to do? When I played, there was very little you could do.

Mine shit. Boring.

Run supply missions (and the occasional NPC fight mission). Boring. And repetative- bad random mission generator.

PvP. Might be real fun, but you can't actually do it (due to skills) for weeks.

Craft. If you have the skills to. THat takes weeks again.

On top of that, the universe is huge but absolutely empty. Noone around anywhere.

Overall- very little to do, and nothing fun that doesn't require weeks of rl time before you can do it.

Re:EVE-Online, not just for everyone (1)

Corbu Mulak (931063) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667358)

You pretty much proved my point. As I said, it takes time. Some people don't watn to spend that much time to get into the meat of the game. That's fine. And I agree with you, mining is boring as hell.

Re:EVE-Online, not just for everyone (1)

coolGuyZak (844482) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667471)

I'm a miner YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD!

Honestly, I am. I have more skill points in industry than in all of my combat skills combined... (I am in the middle of fixing that)

Re:EVE-Online, not just for everyone (1)

Corbu Mulak (931063) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667500)

And you are a valuable part of our community and your faction/corp's war efforts, and I commend you.

But that doesn't change the fact that I think mining is boring :p

Yup (2, Interesting)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 8 years ago | (#14668647)

Unless you liked EVE's PvP, it was BORING AS HELL.

And many people didn't like EVE's 3-hours-of-boredom/jumping-for-ten-seconds-of-comb at PvP system. (I didn't.)

I had my account for a year starting at release, so in terms of skill points I wasn't far behind most other people. (I was deficient in combat skill points, given that I intentionally planned to be a commerce/production/science guy and my main character was Gallente because of that.)

For those not familiar with EVE, your character's stats affected how rapidly you gained skills. Each skill category (combat, science, etc) had a primary and secondary stat. Gallente characters had GREAT stats for the science/production/commerce stuff, but were AWFUL and took as much as twice the time to learn combat and ship navigation skills.

Pretty much, unless you only did combat and intentionally planned your character around combat and nothing else from the beginning, EVE got boring as hell once you obtained your first battleship.

By the time I quit, the only thing exciting about EVE for me was the fact that 90% of the client code was byte compiled Python, which one could convert back to human readable source code with a Python decompiler, and then *have the game recompile the source*. Yay for autopilot code that automagically hit afterburners and chose appropriate instajump bookmarks (if you had them) for you. That excitement lasted only a month before I outright quit.

TW2002 anyone? (2, Interesting)

jchenx (267053) | more than 8 years ago | (#14668045)

Wow, reading about the game makes it seem a lot like my favorite BBS door game of all time, TradeWars 2002 [wikipedia.org] . That was another slow-paced, space-based game. Every day you only had a limited number of turns. The primarily way of making money was via trading from one port to another (buy low, sell high). Only after a long period of time, could you truly amass a fortune (buying planets, bigger ships, etc.). There was also the notion of corporations with shared assets that could be plundered, if left unguarded (or the defense vaporized).

I wonder how many of EVE-Online's designers played that game. I'd be willing to play EVE, if I weren't already sucked into WoW.

Re:TW2002 anyone? (1)

C0rinthian (770164) | more than 8 years ago | (#14670164)

I played TW2002, and I played Eve. The comparison is quite accurate. However, the trading is much more complex as it's a player driven market, and NPC supply and demand is VERY secondary.

I played Eve for about 2 years. Now I play WoW. Honestly, Eve is the better game, but you can only stay in the thick of alliance politics, wars, etc for so long before going slightly insane. It's nice to just log on and kill orcs for an hour or two without having to worry about anything.

Re:EVE-Online, not just for everyone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14668170)

Eve never had a mature community to begin with. Just a pack of griefer assholes running around killing newbs, like any other PvP MMO. Only in Eve, it takes forever to earn anything, and even longer to be able to use it.

The real question isn't how many subscribers, it's how many *active* subscribers? Most of those 100k are people who are long gone and trial accounts made by the current players just to haul things. When the trial expires, they get another 14 day trial pass an do it again.

The reality is, there are probably only 15-20k real subscribers, because even thier players online totals are skewed by the multitude of trial account alts. That's 15-20k more than this interactive screensaver deserves.

Re:EVE-Online, not just for everyone (1)

ebrandsberg (75344) | more than 8 years ago | (#14669494)

There is a strict limit on the number of trial accounts, and now, those accounts arn't able to do many things normal accounts are able to do just to prevent such activity. This game isn't for everybody--it isn't for people for example that expect to be given a plot to follow, and arn't creative enough to interact with other players.

Re:EVE-Online, not just for everyone (2, Informative)

tibike77 (611880) | more than 8 years ago | (#14670644)

There's a limit of max 3000 "trial" accounts online on the cluster, but I never saw more than maybe 1500 online.
Yes, the game tells you how many players are logged in at the moment, and how many are trial accounts (if you are a trial account yourself, that is).
Not that you would stand a chance to do anything decent in the 14 days you get for a trial account.

AND, actually, there are 100,000+ accounts with fees paid for "NOW".
That's what "active game subscribers" means to me, anyway.
Well, not bad, 1.5 mil $ per month (actually, less, as most active players paid for the entire year).
The average "online users" load on the cluster is around 10k-15k during the GMT day, and peaks at around 20+k each and every day.

Inflammation of the tree? (1)

Mille Mots (865955) | more than 8 years ago | (#14668754)

Hopefully this wonderful community does not succumb to the disease known as 'Poplaritis'

I don't think that's very likely, given that the game is set in deep space.

;)

--
Sig nell

Diversity in gameplay (5, Interesting)

Tallon29 (821994) | more than 8 years ago | (#14666996)

Read an article in a gaming magazine a few months ago about a massive coordinated effort to assasinate and rob blind a large guild in the game. That a game could have a universe that allowed such treachery quite frankly shocked me. Most MMOs these days are all about babying the player through the game. No lasting consequences for mistakes, etc. I'll have to see if I can find a link to it.

Re:Diversity in gameplay (1)

ClamIAm (926466) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667138)

Um, ANY MMO allows people to get "robbed". There are many ways to dupe and trick people into giving you in-game money or items. There is no safeguard against human intelligence (or lack of).

And if you're talking about the two guys who tricked a bunch of "investors" looking to split costs on the blueprints for some big ship, I'd hardly call it a "massive" effort.

Re:Diversity in gameplay (3, Informative)

Tallon29 (821994) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667182)

Does tricking investors have anything to do with assasination? "After a months-long infiltration operation, the Eve Online corporation Guiding Hand Social Club managed to work its agents high into the ranks of the Ubiqua Seraph corp (corps are Eve's version of guilds), from whence they pulled off what is being called the biggest heist/coup/assassination in Eve history, making away with $16,500 worth of virtual goods-and all within the letter of Eve law. The PC Gamer article linked above is a fantastic narrative retelling of the operation. And this writer feels that beside being a good story, the fact that such a sophisticated operation is not only possible but actually took place is testament to the success of Eve's design." Check it out [dragonscoveherald.com] .

Re:Diversity in gameplay (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667223)

Ugh. If I want consequences, I'll do something stupid in real life. Gaming is supposed to be fun. Consequences aren't.

Heave and Hell, WoW and EvE (1)

Shihar (153932) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667623)

There is a Twilight Zone episode where this guy ends up dying and finds himself in the afterlife. He was a big gambler in life, so his after life has him in a Casino. In his afterlife, he always winds. Every single hand, every roll of the dice, every spin of the wheel is a win. After a while he asks his after life guide what kind of heaven this is. He complains that winning is meaningless if you never lose. The guide responds with, "What makes you think you are in heaven?"

Re:Heave and Hell, WoW and EvE (1)

TheLink (130905) | more than 8 years ago | (#14668213)

Yeah, imagine if you ended up with "God mode", but nobody is around to play with you or wants to.

Re:Heave and Hell, WoW and EvE (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 8 years ago | (#14671211)

Being a gambler myself- I'd jump for joy if I hit every card for a night, much less for eternity. Doesn't sound bad at all to me.

Re:Diversity in gameplay (2, Informative)

Yst (936212) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667580)

The perpetrator was a corp called the Guiding Hand Social Club, the victim was another corp, Ubiqua Seraph and its CEO, Mirial. It got coverage in PC Gamer. The relevant thread chronicling the heist is here. [eve-online.com]

Re: Eve Online Hits 100K Subscribers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14667010)

Did that hurt ?

Re: Eve Online Hits 100K Subscribers (2, Funny)

josepuerto (951665) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667021)

i miss final fantasy VII...

Missing file for this article (0, Offtopic)

YoungFelon (674090) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667035)

I don't know about anybody else, but for the first few minutes that this article was listed (as a secondary article on /. main page), the headline linked to a nonexistent URL, and the story didn't appear on the games.slashdot main page.

You're new here, aren't you? (1)

Leroy_Brown242 (683141) | more than 8 years ago | (#14668111)

Happens all the time. Don't worry about it. :)

23k a record? (2, Interesting)

Onuma (947856) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667049)

Do they mean 23000+ people on one server? I know there were more people than that on at one time during the height of Diablo II, for example. I'm not sure how that game or others are faring now, but I guess it's gotta be ignoring multiple servered games.

Re:23k a record? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14667074)

In EVE, there is only one universe that everyone inhabits. It'd be more like imagining 23k people in a single game of Diablo II.

Re:23k a record? (1)

ceejayoz (567949) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667078)

Yeah, EVE prides itself on a single world with everyone in it, versus a bunch of different game worlds like WoW etc.

Re:23k a record? (1)

Chimera512 (910750) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667089)

when i played that game for a little while through the free trial in some of newb zones i hardly saw other players, ever. and the in game universe is so huge taht travel times are enormous and taht many players are spread out over a huge area. the game's learning curve was too steep for me, since i was just a casual player.

Re:23k a record? (1)

kickedfortrolling (952486) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667107)

If you've not played, I think the close-ness of the community that comes from just the one server is part of the charm of the game. Wow is imo let down by having many identical realms, wheras if you play eve your in the same universe as everyone else. Also, i remember the lag when they 1st hit 12k... 23k and stable is BIG news :)

Re:23k a record? (1)

Zevets (728720) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667131)

at 23k, some of the regions get a bit laggy, but they are planning a big server upgrade soon, so hopefully those issues will go away.

Re:23k a record? (1)

Onuma (947856) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667161)

Yeah SWG and EQ2 left me kind of jaded with the whole MMO genre. I've gotten more out of MUDs than anything else, and those can host a lot of people at once.
I might have to take a look into the free trial, I almost did right before I deployed here to Iraq, but I figured if I wanted to check it out I would save it for when I get back.
Thanks for the update. I didn't know about all of that stuff, as I'd only briefly looked over how the game is before deciding not to engross myself in another venture.

Re:23k a record? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14667125)

Not one physical server, but there is only one instance of EvE Online. Anyone that logs in will be in the same server as anyone, anywhere, that logs in.

Re:23k a record? (5, Informative)

TopSpin (753) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667148)

Do they mean 23000+ people on one server?

Yes. EVE has only one "server", which is a cluster of IBM hardware with a large Texas Memory Systems solid state disk. I'm not certain what operating system is running on the cluster nodes, but I know the database is MS SQL Server.

The game is implemented in so-called "stackless" Python. I believe they are using a now rather obsolete version of stackless. I continue to wonder when and how they will address that problem. Perhaps they have been maintaining an internal stackless Python fork...

Re:23k a record? (4, Informative)

inquis (143542) | more than 8 years ago | (#14668489)

This post is mostly correct. The IBM cluster forms the proxy layer. The Texas Memory Systems box is a cache between these systems and the SQL servers. The hardware upgrade is on the proxy layer -- basically, they are replacing 1U SP 32-bit boxes with blade DP 64-bit Opteron boxes.

As far as Stackless goes, they aren't doing the coding themselves -- last I heard, they have the creator of Stackless at CCP doing the work. Going to 64-bit is a huge win though -- systems like Jita and Lagsulert (whose real name is Oursalert, but you get the idea) are now approaching 500 people in that system in prime time. Considering the number of agent missions they are running, and all the market activity that goes on, you've got to start getting close to your 32-bit architecture memory limit.

Re:23k a record? (1)

umbrellasd (876984) | more than 8 years ago | (#14670609)

I continue to wonder when and how they will address that problem. Perhaps they have been maintaining an internal stackless Python fork...
With 23,000 simultaneous users, I don't think they've got much of a problem with their version of Python. Maybe WoW should upgrade their version of C++.

*chuckle*

the great eve scam (5, Interesting)

wirm (190901) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667109)

www.thegreatscam.com if your an eve online fan, or just interested in weird stuff on the internet check that out, i bought the domain and host it cause its such a good story.

Re:the great eve scam (1)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667946)

that is funny - funny enough that i scrolled down to read each page and then scrolled all the way back up to hit the link for the next page. any chance of a 'next' or something at the bottom-- so i can complain to people who read it after me that they didn't do it the 'hard way'?
 
If not it is hilarious-- i've never played the game but laughed quite a bit as i read this tale of mischief- and i picked up a new sig.

Re:the great eve scam (2, Insightful)

HugePedlar (900427) | more than 8 years ago | (#14670868)

I've read this before somewhere else. Very entertaining, no argument there. However, there are many doubters as to the truthfulness of this story. Many people have pointed out that such an event would have been recorded and talked about within Eve and other Eve-related communities, yet it is not. Also, none of the characters can be proven to exist or have existed in Eve. Some of the technical details are wrong as well.

I'm not saying it's bollocks or anything, but many Eve veterans do say so. Either way, it's a damn good yarn.

Re:the great eve scam (1)

Sefert (723060) | more than 8 years ago | (#14671997)

No idea if this story is true, but it sure is interesting. I read the whole thing over the past 45 minutes. It certainly got me interested in Eve, anyway. I'm downloading it now.

Though, somehow, I suspect I won't be investing in any battleships blueprints.

Starflight fix? (1)

sseaman (931799) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667122)

Will this game satisfy my nearly life-long urge to play a game like Starflight (and Starflight 2) again?

Re:Starflight fix? (1)

Shivetya (243324) | more than 8 years ago | (#14670149)

Not at all.

It is closer to Elite than Starflight. There really isn't any mystery out there it has turned into mostly politics with some really big battles to sort out the disagreements.

I have seen nothing since Starflight that compares well and certainly nothing in the mmorpg realm.

 

Re:Starflight fix? (1)

madopal (308394) | more than 8 years ago | (#14671464)

Star Control II was the only game that came close to Starflight.

No MMORPG developers seem to have figured this out. I had hopes for Earth and Beyond and Eve, but neither was much like it.

Loved this game... (4, Interesting)

rocjoe71 (545053) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667140)

I really really liked EVE, I started playing it about 3 months after beta. Fairly regular game updates, an extremely large playing area with vast stretches of solar systems to explore that really added an element of mystery to it all. I enjoyed it so much it's the yardstick by which I measure all MMOGs.

The only downside to it was the proliferation of griefers on the system, who would attack when you were at your most vulnerable state, often exploiting the flaws in the software leaving you feeling freshly fucked, but not in a good way. I left it when PvP was too big an obstacle to play the game the way I wanted to.

That being said, if I ever find a game of the same scale and ambition again, I could easily part with $15-$20 a month to join in, as long as the griefing was under control.

Re:Loved this game... (2, Interesting)

heartless_ (923947) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667212)

An open PvP system like EVE's will always be open to the griefer. That is how the system works. Ships and ship fitting have specific roles. In EVE no amount of player skill will get a weak ship through a fight.

What you call an exploitation of the game is actually what makes EVE's end-game so damn satisfying. You want to move that high price blue print original accross low security space? Then you better bring friends. You want to transport an assload of high price cargo? Bring friends.

Pirates exist, but the chances of getting gunned down in your own corporations space is slim to none... as long as your corp stays on top of defense. Chances are you just jumped into a corporations system without permission. Instead of letting you pass... you were eliminated.

Re:Loved this game... (3, Interesting)

coolGuyZak (844482) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667444)

I find the political maneuverings between alliances and corporations to be one of the most satisfying elements of the game myself. So far, I've been 100% carebear (miner/refiner). However, my corp is finally beginning to move into 0.0, and so I am picking up some combat skills. I am looking forward to the change in gameplay :)

Re:Loved this game... (1)

mikaelhg (47691) | more than 8 years ago | (#14669140)

... I've been 100% carebear (miner/refiner) ...

How is the player to player market in EVE? I really enjoyed playing a Master Chef in SWG, is there a comparable experience in EVE?

Re:Loved this game... (1)

ebrandsberg (75344) | more than 8 years ago | (#14669446)

No game has a more advanced market economy than Eve. None.

Re:Loved this game... (1)

coolGuyZak (844482) | more than 8 years ago | (#14669693)

The market system is incredibly advanced. It is possible to make a living just by playing the market--and skills exist to allow you to do so. The basic skill is called "trade" and increases the amount of orders (buy and/or sell) you can place on the market. Additional skills exist to increase this even further. There are skills that allow you to modify your orders remotely, buy and sell remotely, and more.

Eve also sports an intricate system for creating items. To make an item you need to acquire a blueprint. Blueprints are sold in 1 of 2 varieties: blueprint originals (BPOs) and blueprint copies (BPCs). BPOs allow you to create an unlimited number of items, as well as BPCs. BPCs allow you to create a set number of items from them. After you have a BP, you have to get the materials. (The process by which you do this is outside the scope of this post.) After that, you rent a factory slot and build the item.

The caveat to all of this is that everything in EVE requires skills, and skills take a while to train. Getting to the point where manufacturing or trading will make you millions takes between 2 weeks and a month, depending on your strategy for making money.

The reason why there is such depth to the trading system is because there is no way to instantly transport materials from one place to another--the need to transport things creates disparities similar to that of the real world--creating a simulated economy which behaves relaistically.

More information available in the Player Guide [eve-online.com]

Re:Loved this game... (1)

mikaelhg (47691) | more than 8 years ago | (#14669778)

... blueprint originals (BPOs) and blueprint copies (BPCs) ...

Interesting... and can players affect the quality and characteristics of the items they craft?

Re:Loved this game... (1)

Zero1za (325740) | more than 8 years ago | (#14670454)

Well, the items themselves are based on what the blueprint allows, so, in other MMO terms, the items you produce are not buffed in any way. However, what your skills and experience give you is shorter production times, and less material wastage. So the more skilled you are in production, the more efficiently you produce. If you have great production skills, you will be in great demand for the higher end items (battleships, even...bigger...things) as the amounts of raw materials in play and the time required are quite steep.

Re:Loved this game... (1)

DruBear (26114) | more than 8 years ago | (#14670539)

No - the market and trading is the most sophisticated, but the crafting (called manufacturing in Eve Online) is somewhat simplistic and comparable to WoW. Once you have the materials and the blueprint (either an original or a copy) the end product is the same as every other producer. You can control (via your toon's skills or material or time research on the blueprint) how much material or time it will take, but the end result is the same. If you enjoyed SWG crafting, trying to match materials and innovations with results, you will be disappointed.

The "game" of manufacturing is setting up supply lines for base materials and (for Tech 2) the longer production chains from moon mining to reactions to components to final product. Also transporting the final goods to appropriate markets allows "low cost providers" to add value by moving goods to outlying systems. Eve even supports "courier missions" that players set up for other players to fulfill. "Take 100 Gyrostabilizer 2's from Jita to Hagilur for 2m pay, 4m security deposit."

Re:Loved this game... (1)

mikaelhg (47691) | more than 8 years ago | (#14669814)

Oops, pressed submit a bit early...

Getting to the point where manufacturing or trading will make you millions takes between 2 weeks and a month, depending on your strategy for making money.

This presents no problem at all, after all in SWG to become a Master Chef you had to bake millions of cakes and acquire hundreds of tons of all kinds of raw materials from energy to water to wheat, just to grind on. We had an outfit called Intergalactic Outfitters on the Tempest server, specializing on the most advanced crafting available on the game from weaponsmithing to armorsmithing to cooking and tailoring. Fun times.

Re:Loved this game... (3, Informative)

coolGuyZak (844482) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667456)

Most if not all of the flaws in the PvP system have been removed at this time. With the release of Red Moon Rising, CCP finally got around to implementing a system for ore rats as well. If someone steals ore out of your can, you get kill rights. :)

Of course, the podkill zones are still infested by griefers... but that is the entire point of those areas. CCP engineered that mechanic into their game specifically to increase the risk of traversing those systems.

I didn't enjoy it. (1)

MaXiMiUS (923393) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667197)

This game doesn't exactly qualify as a MMORPG. Massive? Sure. Multiplayer? Duh. Online? Yes.. RPG? Not exactly. Economy simulator is what I'd call it. You literally spend your days mining asteroids, so you can get better lasers, to mine faster. Oh, and let's not forget that you can attack some NPCs, for money to buy mining gear and whatnot. Other players? More mining. Practically the entire game revolves around mining f'sking asteroids. Quests? 'Go kill X. Come back to Y. Bring Z, get XYZ money to buy mining stuff.' Updates? More ships, to mine. Faster. Oh yeah. Size/Vastness? Emptyness. This game is huge, sure, but it's FUCKING empty. I'd give it a 2/5, if I was actually a person that reviewed games.

Re:I didn't enjoy it. (2, Interesting)

Ayaress (662020) | more than 8 years ago | (#14668762)

Exactly how I feel. I have other things to say, too. Like the blatant astroturfing - I've seen more than one account posting the exact same plug for this game off-topic in every MMOG related thread on this site in the last couple weeks. I mean identical down to the spelling error. I got a spam a while ago telling me that if I cultivated established accounts on at least 50 sites, with an "on topic" post rate of 10 posts per hour distributed (That's 24/7 - so somewhat higher during the time I'd actually bother), and then also had a sufficient rate of plugs for their MMOG about how great it is and how it's better in everyconcievable way than any other MMOG, I could get free game time as well as getting paid. I have a sneaking suspicion that I know what game that was without having to fill in personal information on the marketer's website.

Re:I didn't enjoy it. (1)

tibike77 (611880) | more than 8 years ago | (#14670830)

Ok, I have no idea what the heck are you complaining about.
You say everything revolves around MINING ?
You meant, most of anything in EVE revolves around MONEY and time spent learning since char-creation.
Mining is one of the lowest income-generating professions, in "secure space".

I have went through 7 (yes, seven) pieces of 14-day-trial accounts before finally deciding what it is I want to do in EVE.
And that, after playing for a couple of hours on an almost one year old account of a friend, who makes his living mining.

In 0.5 space (considered "pretty secure", at least no player-controlled pirates around), he was making *at best* 3 mil ISK per hour with a Covetor and 3 strip miners fitted. I was making 2 mil per hour with a 9-days old account in a less than 2 mil total worth frigate (including equipment).

Don't complain about the lack of options. Just step aside your "normal" account, cancel the learning, create a 2nd character focused on combat (high perception, willpower, average mem/int, low charisma), "gift" yourself a full set of +3 implants and some cash, start up with frigate L4 and command L2, train science 3 and cybernetics 1, plug the implants, learn "learning-related" skills up to L3, then focus another 2-3 weeks on gunnery and related skills... and see the difference.

Dear CCP.. (0, Troll)

EvilCabbage (589836) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667198)

"To help accommodate its growing population, CCP will complete a hardware overhaul, allowing the game to handle more users, expand its universe, and run smoother."

Think you could spare some staff for Blizzard? They seem to have problems implementing this idea.

Re:Dear CCP.. (1)

typidemon (729497) | more than 8 years ago | (#14668621)

I don't think Blizzard can fix its problems simply by adding more hardware. I think they have simply fracked their design, and fracked it hard.

Re:Dear CCP.. (1)

C0rinthian (770164) | more than 8 years ago | (#14671014)

Agreed. It doesn't matter how much hardware you throw at something if the design doesn't scale or is flawed.

It would appear that Blizzard was beat pretty hard by their own unexpected success. I don't think they ever anticipated the load they now have to deal with.

Sounds like every space sim I've ever played (1, Flamebait)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667218)

Maybe one day I'll be able to play a space sim where you can actually walk around on your ship, do EVAs in zero G, hijack other ships, etc.

Re:Sounds like every space sim I've ever played (1)

Ankle (633399) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667293)

Can always look forward to Star Trek Online for that. Let's hope they don't butcher it like, oh I don't know, Star Wars Galaxies?

http://startrek.perpetual.com/GalClassHubDeck7SciM ed.html [perpetual.com] - One of the decks on a ship.

Re:Sounds like every space sim I've ever played (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667306)

Yeah, not exactly the vision of space I was going for and I guarentee you will not be able to EVA and you will never see zero gravity.

Re:Sounds like every space sim I've ever played (1)

kalirion (728907) | more than 8 years ago | (#14669142)

Maybe one day I'll be able to play a space sim where you can actually walk around on your ship, do EVAs in zero G, hijack other ships, etc.

You wanna do EVAs [wikipedia.org] ? That's some weird tastes you have, sir.

Re:Sounds like every space sim I've ever played (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14670341)

0/10

Not funny.

Only 99,999 members! (1)

Kyle (4392) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667221)

I subscribed last month, played it for a couple of days, didn't like it, and unsubscribed, but the unsubscription only occurs at the end of the month that you paid for upfront.

So they only have 99,999 users!

No way. (0)

Vaystrem (761) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667322)

"They currently hold the record for most concurrent users, set at 23,178 simultaneous users."

I think they meant to say that the CURRENT record for concurrent users is 23,178 for EVE Online - not a record for All MMOs. I'm sure that Lineage has had a higher concurrency and WoW's concurrency is reported to exceed the population of Chicago.

Re:No way. (1)

Corbu Mulak (931063) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667348)

They meant on one server. WoW may have a MUCH larger population, but not nearly that many people can play on one server at a time.

Re:No way. (3, Informative)

Quaoar (614366) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667351)

Except that EVE is one server. Let's see you get 2,000 concurrent users on a WoW server and have it run smoothly, let alone 20,000.

Re:No way. (1)

DigitalWallaby (853269) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667380)

Eve is played on a single server. WoW, even though they have way more users online at any one time, is played over a large number of servers. I'm not sure how many players can be on a server at one time in WoW, but it's nowhere near 23178.

Re:No way. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14670225)

still agree with the start of this piece, 23k on one server doesnt mean anything,
how many cpus is that?

sure many MMO games like linage and COH can do 5k per server but they are tiny
inexpensive boxes.

you need to clearly define what this server is so that apple to apple comparisions
can be made.

WoW Fans: EVE Uinverse = Single realm (5, Informative)

Organic_Info (208739) | more than 8 years ago | (#14667680)

For all the WoW fans having trouble understanding what is so special about this, the EVE Universe is one big single realm (hosted on a cluster of servers).

So where as a single WoW realm (hosted on a cluster of servers?) can accommodate about 2000 concurrent online players the EVE Universe(realm) has now supported over 23000 concurrent online players.

Now that is something special.

Big Deal? (1, Insightful)

Osmosis_Garett (712648) | more than 8 years ago | (#14668020)

Its much easier to host 23,000 people when you dont have to render terrain. I know that Anarchy Online initially had hopes that they'd be able to support up to 50,000 people on a single server; their opening day showed them how fruitless that idea was. Had their servers been able to allow everyone who was trying to login and play together, they could have surpassed this. Not to take away from the technical achievement of concurrently serving 23,000 clients in a mmporg, this is simply a measurement which will constantly be increased as technology allows. Way to go Eve Online, for being #1!

Re:Big Deal? (3, Informative)

AntiDragon (930097) | more than 8 years ago | (#14668347)

I'd have to disagree.

Rendering terrain (or not) is a function of the game client and has no effect server-side.

Everything in the game is merely a list of data - object type, stats, position, vector, state/animation etc. How that looks graphically is down to the client.
EVE's concurency *is* impressive since it implies they have a server farm capable enough to access a single database at high speed .

In contrast, the idea behind seperate "realms" (like WoW) is to limit the size of each database for speed purposes.

The bigger the database, the more entities it contains and the longer it takes to cycle through each one and update them. So WoW's server farm contains lots of smaller databases. I would expect it makes maintenance and backup easier.

Of course, this is just a rough impression - there's a myriad of ways to design such systems but you'd probably find something akin to the above if you ever went to work for either company, I'd guess.

Re:Big Deal? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14670052)

WoW and other earth-like game environments have no chance with EVE in terms of server load. Network traffic generated by players in WoW is much heavier than in EVE, players move their chars by pressing keys all the time, a lot of data has to be transmitted to the server and down to client - in EVE you steer your ship by using bookmarks mostly - go to waypoint - 1min. of waiting - ok, you are there. Not allowing to move ships in simulator-like style was a wise decision - your ship has all the gadgets so why bother with manual steering? :-)
Players of EVE tend to say that EVE universe is vast and WoW is small and you can go from one end to other in let's say 1 hr. EVE is just a universe made of separate solar systems connected by gates. But creating EVE universe is much less complex, i think it could be made by running some randomizing solar systems generator. There is a lot of space, 3 planets, 4 bases, some asteroids, few gates... thats all. If you got 3d models, u can make solar system from 0 in 10 mins? I think in earth like games developing 3d environment with all those trees, bushes, houses, rocks takes most of the time. In EVE there is a lot of space and you dont meet all those 20k people - in WoW a lot less space, few places of special interest - Orgrimmar or Ironforge can be pain in the ass with 2k ppl on server... i can't imagine what would happen if there were 20k of players. An awful lot of trigons to render, poor video card :]

Designing of world of similar magnitude to EVE universe in WoW-like games is a matter of far future. Seamless and vast world is a big technical problem - u need many machines, u must solve problems with communication when ie. player goes beetween chunks of terrain on different servers - what do do with him, what to do with mob chasing him etc etc... Not to mention a lot more 3d design and artwork to make much bigger world... problems everywhere :-)

Re:Big Deal? (1)

moonbender (547943) | more than 8 years ago | (#14671152)

Not that I disagree, but you have to do stuff like server side collision detection which probably is a great deal more difficult in WOW than it is in EVE, although of course EVE also has solids flying through space.

Re:Big Deal? (1)

Rayonic (462789) | more than 8 years ago | (#14671711)

Rendering terrain (or not) is a function of the game client and has no effect server-side.

Object collision? Pathing issues? I prefer not falling through the terrain, and having the NPCs navigate properly.

Ground-based MMOs are generally more dense. In any arbitrary scene there will be more objects, more NPCs, and more players with more doodads (armor pieces, weapon models, etc.)

EVE-Online is mostly time-sinks (3, Informative)

Aceticon (140883) | more than 8 years ago | (#14668267)

I've played the game for almost a year, and from my experience the biggest single problem with EVE online is the enormous amount of time you waste doing boring things in between the fun things:

  • Travelling takes enormous amounts of time. Going through any single start system takes several minutes and common trips via the highway systems (a group of important solar systems which are relativelly far from each other but have direct connections - the fastest way to cross the EVE universe) take at least 15 minutes. Traveling from a far from the highway system in one area to another in a different area can take up to 1h. Going all the way to deep 0.0 space will take several hours. When i was doing trading, i would wake up in the morning, fire up EVE on my PC and send my ship to pick-up some goods in a far system. While in real life i would shower, dress and eat breakfast the ship would be traveling. With a bit of luck the ship would've arrived when i was ready to go to work. I would then pick-up the goods and start the ship on the journey back and then would leave the EVE client on and go to work.
  • The base of the EVE economy is mining asteroids. In order to have the means to buy the most basic ship (newbie ships are free but they suck bigtime) you have to mine ore from asteroids. Mining asteroids is an incredibly boring activity - hours and hours looking at your lasers hitting some asteroids and your cargohold filling with ore. Since cargo holds aren't that big, one has to periodicaly (about once a minute) MANUALLY move the ore to an external cargo container. This hour after hour after hour. After you filled enough external containers you go a pick a different ship (transport ship, big cargohold, few mountpoints for mining lasers) and spend the next 30m moving ore from containers in space to a local starbase. On top of this, if you're not mining near a main system (where typically ore buyers and sellers meet - note that asteroids at main systems only have the worse quality ore), you will have another (multi-hour) session of transporting ore from the out-of-way system to a main system.


If you don't believe me, just trail the EVE online forums. You will see many people casualy talking about how they read a book or watch television while their ship travels/mines-ore.

In the end, even though I was quite wealthy for EVE standards (i stumbled early upon a mixed trading/manufacturing market arbitrage possibility introduced when a new type of ship components was made available in the game), i eventually left when i came to the conclusion that after all the time i had invested in it, most of the time playing EVE was composed of boring tasks, NOT fun.

Re:EVE-Online is mostly time-sinks (1)

hrbrmstr (324215) | more than 8 years ago | (#14668413)

We've (wife & I) just started playing EVE (been about a month or so).

The time-between-doing-things-requiring-immediate-acti on is one of the features we actually like.

While she mines in her huge, freakin' mining ship (lotsa shields, not much in offense) I guard with my cruiser/frigate/destroyer and whack the NPC pirates and ensure the real-life pilots mind their manners (we stay in 0.5 systems still, but that will change when I get everything to tech level 2).

In a couple hours, we pull in 1-3M ISKs between ore and space-junk left after blowin' up ships. During those hours, I hack on some code, catch up on news, play with the kids, cook, read, etc. It's the ability to not have to commit 100% of real-life to the game that makes it fun (at least for us). I think the time-factor helps weed out the people who want to just gang together and shoot at you. Don't get me wrong, I've been reduced to a pod and/or pod-killed 4x so-far, but it was my own fault for delving into 0.3 space. The ability to buy insurance makes the ship losses much more amenable.

Because we're ganged, we both benefit from a decent secuity status due to all the bounty kills.

If she chooses to go into a relatively high-level system, I'll do agent missions and usually net 150K-200K ISKs a piece for each (good standings/ratings with them).

But, that's just us, and this is our first MMO (not interested in being whacked by a 13 year old in Counter Strike and don't need to hang around poorly rendered half-naked elf chicks in Guild Wars, WoW, EQ, etc). The quality and (for the most part) maturity of folks on the social-part of EVE is also refreshing, especially if folks kinda stay in-character.

We're still tentative about the whole corporation-thing, but we'll most likely join one just to see if there really are any benefits (any decent corps recruiting that anyone knows of pls post a reply here...and if there are any we should stay away from, that would be cool info as well).

Re:EVE-Online is mostly time-sinks (1)

C0rinthian (770164) | more than 8 years ago | (#14671146)

While she mines in her huge, freakin' mining ship (lotsa shields, not much in offense) I guard with my cruiser/frigate/destroyer and whack the NPC pirates and ensure the real-life pilots mind their manners (we stay in 0.5 systems still, but that will change when I get everything to tech level 2).
You've got the right idea here, but some friendly advice: Don't think that some shiny Tech II gear will save your butt in a fight. Yes, tech II is better, but proper fitting and tactics are what will make or break you. If you're going to venture into hostile territory, (which I recommend because it's fun!) Do it in gear you can afford to lose. The fights are not always fair, and you will take losses. But what you learn will be infinitely more valuable than any expensive mods you might be able to fit. Cheaper gear means you get back out there faster, and get more experience.

Just remember: Don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it.

Re:EVE-Online is mostly time-sinks (1)

hrbrmstr (324215) | more than 8 years ago | (#14672050)

Cool, an fellow EVE-universe resident I can pester with relentless questions!

OK, how 'bout just a few:

1. I *really* like the Kestrel (Caldari, as you know doubt know). Great missile ship, but no capacitance and pathetic power/cpu. It's great for NPC pirates, but that is not good for those fights you're talking about, right? (or, would better skills/implants make it more useful by upping the values a bit)

2. My current ship - a Caracal (sp?) seems to have enough highslots and power/cpu/capacitance, but one of the higher level NPC's (~65,000 ISK bounty) managed to reduce my shields to 0 in like 4 shots and I barely scratched him. I'm upgrading to a medium shield booster and also training for a shield recharger, but that might not even work so well.

3. Are there sytems were the PvP action is a bit more "balanced"? One of the times I got podded *and* podkilled (in one of the higher frigates, not a Caracal, but similar in features) was when I was just passing through a 0.3 system. Two or three of the smart bombs reduced me to almost nothing. I made the jump to a station, but had no speed and the dude found me and finished the job. It just seems like it would be hard to get a balanced fight "randomly'.

sorry for bugging you and also apologies to the /. crowd for getting way off topic

Re:EVE-Online is mostly time-sinks (1)

kampit (48398) | more than 8 years ago | (#14668553)

I started playing EVE again (on a new account) about a week ago, I played it before back in 2003 and now it seems like a totally different game to me.

Back in '03 I did the mining thing for my money, which wasn't all that fun in the end, I did like the PVP though. So when I started this time around I had one goal: no mining whatsoever, and outside of the tutorial where you get taught different aspects of the game I have met that goal.

So right now I have around 20 million isk, which I figure isn't that bad for someone who's played for a week, all earned through combat missions against npc pilots. I should be able to afford around 30 reasonably well equipped frigates with that money, which I'll probably need once I decide to go engage other players in combat :)

Re:EVE-Online is mostly time-sinks (1)

Diss Champ (934796) | more than 8 years ago | (#14669621)

I'd like to partially correct some misperceptions possible from your post, as well as mention what perceptions are true.

You do NOT have to mine to get started. I didn't make my initial stake mining, and whenever I train folks in my corp I encourage them to avoid it and teach them how (people are welcome to Evemail me ingame for help there, same moniker as here). Making a living by Trading, which is one of the options, does indeed lead to long travel times- you tend to fly slow ships over long distances. That is a natural result of the fact that if you choose to trade for a living, you're competing with everyone else who does, and so short routes may get jumped on quick leaving the long ones. You picked some of the (while profitable enough) most boring professions in the game in my opinion- so that you got bored doing it is natural:).

Another way to get started is to run missions and blow up NPCs. It pays decently, and more importantly is interesting and a good way to learn the combat mechanics. The skills you learn to improve it are to a large degree useful for PVP as well, unlike mining skills which are basically useless outside mining.

Now the ability to make money while doing something else is a nice thing about the game, but I wouldn't spend my dedicated game time doing it. Letting your ship run a big trade work, or an industrial to eat a big asteroid, while at work is fine, since it takes very little real world time, but it's only one of several possible means to an end. What is that end? Well, you choose your own goals in the game.

There are lots of people who make money the way you do, and lots of people who make money the way I do, and lots who make money a variety of other ways. Different ways appeal to different people. Do what appeals- and if you find nothing that appeals, find another game. But if you do the trial, and part is boring, try something else:).

Re:EVE-Online is mostly time-sinks (1)

Winterblink (575267) | more than 8 years ago | (#14670734)

Like forums are the best place to find information about a game. They're typically the domain of the vocal bitchy minority.

Re:EVE-Online is mostly time-sinks (1)

C0rinthian (770164) | more than 8 years ago | (#14671178)

You're pretty active on those forums, last time I checked. ;)

Love your comic BTW.

Re:EVE-Online is mostly time-sinks (1)

Winterblink (575267) | more than 8 years ago | (#14671254)

Thanks. :)

And actually you might have noticed I've not been frequenting them as much as I used to, and when I'm there I'm trying to be constructive.

Re:EVE-Online is mostly time-sinks (1)

C0rinthian (770164) | more than 8 years ago | (#14671495)

I'll admit, I'm not on nearly as much as I used to be, so my assessment of forum activity is not as thorough as it used to be.

Thats actually one of the high points of Eve. The forums are much more interesting to read than other MMO's. Still a fair share of flaming and such, but even that is more intelligent than you'd expect. (Corporations and Alliances anyone?)

(FYI me = Aitrus, retired pilot and forum whore)

Re:EVE-Online is mostly time-sinks (1)

Winterblink (575267) | more than 8 years ago | (#14671993)

As EVE has become more and more popular, I've found the forums have started to become filled with, shall we say, undesirables? Moreso than say a year ago. It's an unfortunate side effect, but I'm noticing more and more "vets" staying away from the forums in general, or staying in the Corp and Alliances forum.

That being said, you're right in that it still has the best community of any MMO around.

Re:EVE-Online is mostly time-sinks (3, Insightful)

Sir Nickel Deuce (879216) | more than 8 years ago | (#14670805)

If you like to play a single-player MMO with other people who coincidentally happen to go by you once in a while, this game is not for you. However, if you are looking for a VERY complex and engaging game which nearly requires a multiplayer mentality, this game is more for you. Of course it's not impossible to go solo, but it will be a lot harder to accomplish anything, and it will be boring without people to help you out and whom with you can do cool things. On the other side, multiplayer end-game content is not nearly as one-tracked as WOW and many other MMO's. You don't have to do PVP or complexes (dungeons) as the main source of your pleasure; EVE has a absolutely monstrous variety of game play.

You have the liberty to choose what ship you want to pilot, what sort of roles you want, and what you want to accomplish. You can get rich in any number of ways such as mining asteroids (and selling the refined minerals), building ships and modules (buying blueprints, minerals, and other resources off the player market or from your own acquisition), hunt NPC's for a living, be a pirate and extort money from people, sell transportation services, and the list goes on. The liberty which CCP gives the players is unparalleled in any other game. Examples of these include the lack of a defining storyline, which makes most of the storyline based on actual player alliances, or written by fan-fiction authors or role-playing characters. Somewhere in this article i'm sure someone will reference the Corp thefts performed by a espionage-oriented corp. On http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/25/3 [escapistmagazine.com] , you can read how a corporation actually mimicked a real-life corporate IPO in order to finance a very expensive project, complete with shares and stock value. There are dozens of ships for each class (which can be piloted by other classes, too), hundreds of skills (which certain ships and modules require at varying levels), and many hundreds of modules, possible setups, and tactics.

The game really is what you want to make out of it. If you want to escape the fairies and wizards paradigm, desire developers who play their own game (and are addicted!), capped-shards, simple markets, and (most importantly) the direct plot control of the developers, EVE will definitely take you for a ride. I came from Earth and Beyond, and am kicking myself for not trying it out earlier. There is a fairly sharp learning curve, but if you want something besides a boring grind, rewards come to those who like challenges. I'd recommend to ignore the posts of those who never joined a corp, only played a trial period, or who have only heard from other players, because they don't have the faintest idea what they have missed, or what's changed since they left.

And no, i'm not getting paid. Is your MMO good enough that you would write a long post about it on slashdot? Mine is.

Is EVE still the most boring MMORPG ever? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14668543)

I played EVE for the first 6 months of release.

- It was possible to get up from your computer, clean the house, take a shower, go to the supermarket, walk the dog and make dinner AND return to the game without missing anything at all. I used to leave the game running 24/7 to maximize my playtime. Before bedtime I would start mining for ore, when I woke up in the morning I would be finished mining. This AFK ability made for the most boring gaming experiences I have ever played.

- Horribly boring missions like "Deliver a load of garbage to space station X", "Transport 10 slaves to space station Y", "Deliver garbage to space station Z".

- A system of advancement that was based on how much real world time your character existed for. To "level up" you would just start a background process that might take a few hours or a few months of real world time and required NO INTERACTION FROM THE PLAYER. E.g. I remember learning a skill that took me 2 months of real world AFK time complete. Not only was this system extremely boring, it also meant that new players would have ABSOLUTELY ZERO chance of ever catching up to someone who started playing the game a few months before them, even if they played the game 24 hours a day.

- Constant nerfs by the developers to the free nature of the game (e.g. pirating) killed much of what little enjoyment and risk was left in the world

- Downtime EVERY SINGLE DAY for hours at a time. They called this "maintenance". I called it "stupid"

- Very small development team did not have resources to produce new content at an acceptable rate

100,001 (2, Funny)

eyeball (17206) | more than 8 years ago | (#14669691)

They would have 100,001 players if they had a Mac OSX client :(

I never really liked this game (1)

mmalove (919245) | more than 8 years ago | (#14670277)

I played the trial, and loved it and the concept at first. I've read the stories posted here and elsewhere about the billion isk scandals, awesome I thought.

My problem with the game was that my accomplishments did not translate into a stronger character, only more resources. Even were I to do something really savvy and make a billion isk during the 14 day trial, I realised there was no way I could possibly reach a high enough skill level to fly something cool, because of the way skills are acquired in the game (you acquire skills by training them, which occurs constantly, even in or out of the game, but it takes several real life days, even over a month, to train some of the higher skills). So basically the game rewards longevity over skillful play. As I observe having to spend several real months doing nothing before I can play the game, and the reality that I have to pay per month to do nothing, the trial was promptly uninstalled.

I hear a lot of players quote that the game gets more fun as you invest more time into it. But to me, enjoying a game should not be a chore I have to work towards. It should be a part of the game.

Re:I never really liked this game (1)

FlameWise (84536) | more than 8 years ago | (#14670662)

Uhm,

lots of people try buying expensive ships or even whole month-old characters which is frowned-upon for some reason:

Without the knowledge on how to use them, that doesn't work too well. Spend those months honing your skills in smaller ships and figuring even more workable fittings. Try taking out an NPC cruiser with a frig.

If you can't after 14 days of skilling combat, you may want to work on your tactics instead.

Of course, if all you want is quick hour of fun after work I'd say you don't need a MMORPG.

Re:I never really liked this game (1)

C0rinthian (770164) | more than 8 years ago | (#14671641)

Just my personal opinion, but I never had as much fun in that game as I did flying my Crusader interceptor. (interceptors are not a significant time investment compared to some ships in the game) Yes, if you want to be the guy piloting a Titan, you've got your work cut out for you. But frankly, I think those ships are high on logistics and low on fun.

Also in Eve, Resources and playerskill are far more important than character skillpoints.

Re:I never really liked this game (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14672013)

I thought the defining characteristic of MMORPGs was rewarding longevity over skillful play.
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