How Much Do You Value Your Office Space? 165
reason asks: "I've heard that office space costs around $10,000 per employee, and sometimes much more. I have a great office: it's a nice size and I have a lovely view out the window. It's a good working environment, and I know I'm lucky. Still, if it came down to dollar terms, I'd be willing to share my office with a colleague or even move into a cubicle in exchange for a mere $5,000/year pay rise. Am I undervaluing what I have? If you have an office to yourself, how much would they have to pay you to make you willingly give it up? If you don't have an office, how much of a pay cut would you be prepared to take to get one?"
Google and Me (Score:5, Interesting)
To me personally, office space doesn't mean much. I almost prefer to work with others around rather than being isolated in an office by myself.
--
United Bimmer - BMW Enthusiast Community [unitedbimmer.com]
Re:Google and Me (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Google and Me (Score:2)
I used to cost and estimate in the printing industry and any estimate considered the value of space used. If a machine cost $50,000 but saved 500 square feet of space that may very well be cheaper in the long term than a $100,000 machine that saved none. I can't imagine any employer not considering this wh
Re:Google and Me (Score:2)
Heck, that $50,000 machine is even cheaper than the $100,000 machine in the near term too!
Re:Google and Me (Score:2)
Maybe I'm missing something.
$50,000 may be cheaper than $100,000?
Especially given that you state the $50,000 machine saves space on top of already being cheaper.
Re:Google and Me (Score:2)
Re:Google and Me (Score:2)
Maybe it's because clearer why I used to work as an estimator.
Re:Google and Me (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm American. I'll always go with the bigger and more expensive machine. Must mean it's better.
Re:Google and Me (Score:2)
Re:Google and Me (Score:5, Insightful)
I will point out, however, that they are rooms. I imagine that background noise is minimal, and people are allowed to focus on their tasks. In comparison, I've worked in environments with tons of open cubicles. The background noise really interferes with trying to focus on what you're doing. You don't even notice it at first, but the moment you find a quiet space you suddenly notice the difference.
So in short, you need a conductive workspace, of which offices are only one type.
Re:Google and Me (Score:2)
Re:Google and Me (Score:2)
Re:Google and Me (Score:2)
Re:Google and Me (Score:2)
Re:Google and Me (Score:4, Funny)
of the roach problem we've been having, that would be great.
Re:Google and Me (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Google and Me (Score:5, Insightful)
Collaboration only works when everyone is willing to work. Otherwise you get people who are lazy, stupid, and would much rather ask you instead of figuring it out for themselves.
Re:Google and Me (Score:4, Funny)
I couldn't possibly drink that much
Re:Google and Me (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Google and Me (Score:4, Interesting)
At the place I worked for a dozen years ago, my boss and his boss decreed that it was time to "tear down the wall" between Programming and Tech Support, which meant not only taking down the almost-to-the-ceiling partion between the two groups, but turning the entire room into an open office area, with no vertical barrier taller than a seated person. And it worked great. So much so that, at my next job, when they started talking about reconfiguring the cubicles for the IT dept, without even being asked I went home and made up a similar design to serve as a first draft. That also worked out well. (Of course, it helped that in both instances, I managed to get myself a desk with a view outside... even if it was just a parking lot.)
The job I had after that paid better, and I got my own office with four walls, a ceiling, and a real wooden door. Heaven, right? Nope. Granted, there were factors other than the seating arrangements, but I hated it.
Now I'm in a job where I share an office (four walls and a door... that's always open) with a co-worker.* And it's actually kinda nice. One of us can intercept interruptions when the other is trying to get something done, getting help with something is as simple as stating a question aloud, and I don't need to worry about keeping abreast of what my coworker is doing because I'm right there when he does it. As long as I continue to get "alone time" - at home and on breaks - I'm fine. I gave up several thousand dollars a year and some benefits to take this job instead of the office-with-a-door job. It was worth it. Even without an outside window.
*Actually, the co-worker position is empty, and we're interviewing to fill it. Anyone with Mac experience interested in working for an art-and-design college in Grand Rapids MI is invited to contact me at "verbeet AT ferris DOT edu"
Re:Google and Me (Score:2)
That said, I admit that I probably WOULD be more productive in a cubicle environment, or in something that you've described. I probably goof off more than I should, and I suspect that's the same with many other folks. I imagine it's hard to get away with reading the lates
Re:Google and Me (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Google and Me (Score:3, Insightful)
So asking "how much pay would you give up to have an office" isn't really paying attention to corporate culture; the submitter appears to be assuming that the two can be linked negatively (i.e., you can exchange pay for better office arrangement, which doe
small groups good, big open plan bad!! (Score:2)
I work in an open plan space with up to 20 people and senior bosses offices round the outside; constant distractions, noise, people on different work patter
Cost is way lower, differential cost is even less! (Score:5, Interesting)
Secondly, you have to consider that the cost of your space is probably only half or less of the total: conference rooms, bathrooms, corridors, etc.: all must be considered, and while the corridors may have to larger if each employee has more space, the bathrooms and conference rooms and other shared areas don't.
So, the delta cost to a company for you to have a cube vs. an office: probably less than $2k per year. For $2k off my gross wages, I would opt for an individual office.
Re:Cost is way lower, differential cost is even le (Score:2)
I suspect that number confuses several "facts"...
Most relevantly, maintaining a physical presence costs a company between $5 and $10 an hour. As a full-timer, that comes out to at least $10k per year.
However, the vast majority of that comes from things like HVAC, lighting, providing a legal and reasonably modern PC, and cleaning and maintenance staff. If almost everyone telecommuted, a company could drastically reduce that av
Re:Cost is way lower, differential cost is even le (Score:3, Informative)
Some quick calculations based on the office where I presently work and the last place I worked, including things like HVAC, insurance and cleaning, show a figure of $5k/year per employee to be quite generous.
I did not include the cost of buying or leasing furniture, PCs, etc.
This report has details of rental rates in San Jose [grubb-ellis.com]: $23 - $30 per square fo
Want an office with crystal ocean views? (Score:2)
Notes:
Re:Want an office with crystal ocean views? (Score:2)
I was just in Denham/Monkey Mia in December and it was excellent. If I could get a decent job there, I'd be more than happy to live there. It's also "only" 850KM from Perth! A leisurely 10 hour drive, on straight, flat, roads.
No, that's for ten of them... (Score:2)
Nearly halfway to Broome. Good tourism into the Pilbara, too (Karajini, Wittenoom etc, and you can dig around in Wyloo Station's amethyst mine).
Re:Cost is way lower, differential cost is even le (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Cost is way lower, differential cost is even le (Score:4, Insightful)
Something else to consider -- if you work from home, you are always at the office, and can be called upon at any hour to log in to the corporate network (on call -- yes, I know...). We had a problem with this 100 or so years ago with people doing "piecework" from their homes. There are laws against this for a reason. Lets not be quite so eager to give up our personal space...
Re:Cost is way lower, differential cost is even le (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Cost is way lower, differential cost is even le (Score:2)
You're looking at it logically and from a task-focused perspective. None of that has anything to do with business. If you aren't in the office, you gradually become nobody. You become increasingly isolated from the political and social core of the company. Soon you become an ab
it depends (Score:2)
I'd lop off maybe $2K a year to get a windowed office with a decent view now, but that's definitely less than 10% of what I make today! And I wouldn't give more than that to get a primo office.
Re:Cost is way lower, differential cost is even le (Score:3, Funny)
My office used to be a conference room.
We never had much in the way of conferences so I moved into it.
Re:Cost is way lower, differential cost is even le (Score:3, Informative)
I don't know what sort of office rent statistics you are looking at, but even downtown SF is going to be $35.00 PSF for Class A office space (unless you have a huge company and get some sort of bulk discount).
Maybe $10? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Maybe $10? (Score:3, Funny)
They can have my Office Space when they unwrap my cold, dead fingers off of the DVD!!
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Why? (Score:2)
Lots! (Score:5, Interesting)
No heat in Winter (Hey this is Ontario it does get cold!)
No air in Summer (Hey this is Ontario it does get hot!)
The only way I could impove my situation; wait for somebody to get canned & steal their desk. By the time somebody noticed I had been there for a few months and 'entrenched'. =)
Re:Lots! (Score:2)
I work in a cave, you insensitive clod! Actually an abandoned limestone mine. Our office shares about 5000 sq. ft. with a small soap company in a 2000000 sq. ft. underground warehouse complex. Diesel semis drive through all the time, so the particulates in the air are pretty bad. The temperature is relatively constant, since we're about 100' below ground level, but humidity gets bad in the summer with the vent air pulled in (and condenses
I'd almost forego a raise for the solitude (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not sure if I could put a value on it (Score:5, Insightful)
Being able to control the lighting is also very valuable.
Privacy too. I don't like people to hearing what I am saying unless I actually want them to overhear it regardless of what I am talking about.
Ohhh - closed door meetings - those have lots of value.
I think I'd need at least a 50% raise.
Re:I'm not sure if I could put a value on it (Score:4, Interesting)
This is an interesting question (Score:4, Insightful)
Since I am alone in it, I have spent a couple thousand dollars in additional furnishing in it ( Lamps, artwork, stereo, TV, various knick-knacks ). I figure if I spend the time, I should make the investment to make it a comfortable room I want to be in.
I'd be hard pressed to give it up for more salary. Would I sell it for a cube? Sure -- but then I'd look for a new job.
value of work (Score:5, Interesting)
> to share my office with a colleague or even move into a
> cubicle in exchange for a mere $5,000/year pay rise
But will your efficiency be the same in a cubicle? If you put that into the calculation as well your pay rise could easily be much smaller, probably even negative for some tasks.
Which brings us to the most important point: some kinds of work benefit more from a nice seperate office, some less, some even benefit from a shared room.
And don't underestimate the incentive factor, a wage rise might be more attractive for the individual employee than getting a separate office, but his coworkers won't take much notice of that. Promoting someone to a better office on the other hand can provide a much greater "i can accomplish that too" motivation boost for his coworkers.
Take my cube, Please! (Score:2)
They already pay for my broadband and give me a softphone and VPN. Weeks go by with me wondering why I even come in since there's nothing I can't do remotely.
I won't even want any salary compensation. I'd be happy to save the travel expenses.
-m
$10K? (Score:2)
On the other hand, I now have 3 offices for rent in an appartment building in downtown Seattle. All for a low, low price of 9K/year. Save 1K!
Depends on the office... (Score:3, Interesting)
First was a small kitchen area, shared with 3 other people at different points of the day, with some overlap occasionally of all 4 of us plus an extra person or two. We managed, and as a group we all got along together well - we're all still together, same department, only losses have been due to a death and a retirement. Next had a private office, 3 network jacks, 2 different circuits, it was nice. Then moved to a slightly smaller office, turning down a window office because it was on the south side of the building, not shaded, and my desk was just a tad too big for it. Moved to a shared lab area with 1 other person for a while for renovations, then back. Just moved to a shared area with really high cubicle walls, but now I have a north side window to one side of me and a fishtank to the other.
So I guess it really depends on what you consider to be a good office, or a better one than you have now.
Per Square Foot (Score:4, Funny)
In the long distance past, I found out that the office space for a company I was working at cost 40$ (Canadian) per square foot per month. Now that doesn't include anything other than the rental itself... not power, plumbing, etc. So, I did the math... I was using up an area of 8ft by 6 foot, so 48 square feet. Round it off if you include use of common areas, so make that 50 ft^2. At that price, they were paying 2000 $/month for the space I occupied. Funny thing is that happened to be what I was earning at the time. So when they offered me a 100 square foot office, (raises had occured -- I was up to 3k/month by then) I started looking for a new job. I for one think that an employee should be worth at least as much per month as the floor under their feet. I felt the company was more concerned about appearances and having a fancy address than it was concerned about having employees who could afford clothes to match the office.
For reference, 40$/sq foot/month is for AAA office space... Just about any other building in the city would go for 12-20/month.
Don't get me wrong, I like having a nice office as much as anyone, but not when the company is paying a premium for the address and can't afford to pay a better wage. Maybe it's just ego, but I would like to think that good employees should be worth more to a company than an expensive address. The expensive address may add prestige to the company and bring business, but happy employees who are well paid tend to work harder, produce better quality work, and are less likely to leave the company for greener fields in the middle of a project.
Re:Per Square Foot (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Per Square Foot (Score:2)
I tried several times to come up with a witty comeback, but every one of them became a whining rant. Lets just say I felt like I was cheaper than the floor, and walked on just as much.
Re:Per Square Foot (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Per Square Foot (Score:2)
Looking at a big city, like Toronto, and downtown, the per square foot charge after taxes and whatnot could easily surpass $40 per square foot. Still, on 100sqft office that's only $4000 per year.
For instance, from officesearchtoronto.com, I obtain
Re:Per Square Foot (Score:2)
There are very few places in the world that go for upwards of $400USD/sq ft for a lease.
Re:Per Square Foot (Score:2)
1 m^2 = 10.764 ft^2
$20.00/ft^2/year = $1.858/m^2/year = $22.296/m^2/month
The joys of metric and imperial measurement.
Re:Per Square Foot (Score:2)
So is that what you did? How is your office now?
Better to keep the flow going... (Score:4, Interesting)
If I had my own office, I wouldn't give it up for anything. Being able to work somewhere with the benefit of natural daylight and without distraction is something I would not give up. Having the ability to open the window and get natural air is an added bonus.
My reasoning is this: By being able to work without distraction I can focus on producing quality work in a short amount of time, and increase my value to the employer, which would increase my
chances of getting better pay rises. Having natural air also helps achieve this goal (as opposed to having a desk right next to an industrial laser printer which as in constant use).
There was also a previous discussion where Microsoft observed that every 5 minute distraction caused their developers spend 25 minutes in order to get the flow going again).
Offices (Score:3, Interesting)
Offices may cost less (Score:2, Interesting)
Actual office space costs from a business owner. (Score:4, Informative)
We have 4 people in the office currently, plus a nice-sized workbench space to build servers and a conference table area. We could easily fit 5 people in the same space.
Rent, plus electricity, water cooler, phone, and 6Mbit DSL connection, costs around $1300 a month. $1300 divided by 5 people is $260/month per person. That, on a yearly basis, is $3120 per employee.
Yes, I suppose we could all work from home and save the money, but productivity would be dramatically decreased. For one thing, we do a lot of datacenter work, and we need quick and easy access to the datacenter during business hours (and space to build servers!) Plus, I like the "office environment" where we can easily chat with each other. A lot of ideas come out just from us talking. Plus, there is a comfy couch where anyone in the company can crash out or just sit and think, and some snacky things to chew on while pondering problems. These are fun amenities that I couldn't justify the cost for as easily if they were at my house.
Also worth mentioning is the comfort our customers derive from us having an office. It's a lot easier to sell customers on our dedicated servers and colocation services if they know they can come knock on the door whenever they have a problem. For whatever reason, the "everyone works at home" thing is not considered a professional way to run a small business, and having an office is seen as a must-have for customers to take us seriously.
Re:Actual office space costs from a business owner (Score:3, Funny)
You can't justify a couch and some munchies for your house? Gee, and here I thought I was cheap!
Office space (Score:2)
If you have an office to yourself, it's either because you're the CEO or becasue you're the last (wo)man standing!
On a more serious note, in the UK, office space tends not to be partitioned into cubicles, or even personal offices, but tends to be open plan.
If you take a modern office, like 30 St.Mary Axe [30stmaryaxe.com], the London HQ of Swiss Re insurance - a beautiful building btw - office space is offered in t
some links (Score:2, Interesting)
- at one engagement (I was on-staff at a consulting co. for a big client), I actually shared a DESK (not an office), with another programmer. Seriously --
Why so expensive? (Score:2)
I would gladly trade my cubicle for a small, ugly room like the one in Brazil (remember the scene where Sam is fighting for his half of the desk shared between him and his neighbor? that part is ridiculous but the room itself looked to be an adequate size, if it just had a whole desk to itself.) Building offices is a one-time cost, not an ongoing one. If you work for a company that's been around a few years, it makes you want to ask, why don't they already have offices that w
$20k/year for me (Score:3, Insightful)
The best option i've seen is where we had some communal computers with a standard setup that anyone (and groups) could sit down and work at, plus offices for when we needed to work privately. That was fantastic for productivity (having the offices didn't isolate us), yet also was pleasant because we could retreat to the offices to take phone calls, or to work solo when that was more effective. That's the model every development company ought to have in my opinion.
That's hard to come by though. When deciding between having to work surrounded by people with no privacy, vs having an office with privacy, vs having an office with a view, I value it at $10k/year for each step. I'm currently working in the open floor plan with no view, but I took the job because they offered me $20k more than I was making before plus bonus opportunities that may be worth even more. I've also taken a $10k paycut to go from an internal office to an office with a beautiful view (similar work). Totally worth it. That daily pleasantness did so much for my stress level, helping to improve my health, it was great. I'm actually slightly regretting taking the 20k step up right now given the stress of the environment I'm in now, but hopefully the extra money will let me have kids, and that's important enough for me to make the trade off, at least for a while.
Anyway, all in all I'd strongly urge you to consider just how much value your personal space has for you. Consider: how much extra would you pay in rent not to have to deal with a roommate?
Re:$20k/year for me (Score:2)
You are tolerating stress for now... in order to have kids????
Boy, are you in for a nasty surprise.
Re:$20k/year for me (Score:2)
I understand the stress involved with kids, but that's a different kind of stress. Much more rewarding than work-stress.
Re:$20k/year for me (Score:2)
Re:$20k/year for me (Score:2)
The converse... (Score:2)
My cubicle (Score:3, Funny)
All the hexagons are attached in a sort of hive configuration.
Would I give it up?
Hell no.
Re:My cubicle (Score:2)
i love my cube (Score:2)
My office sucks (Score:2)
It depends on you and the situation (Score:2)
From reading the other comments here it seems that whether private offices are important is a matter of personal opinion. From asking about this it sounds like you don't really value it. If you've been in a cube farm/shared offices then you should have a good idea what works for you, productivity wise. If not, try to determine that before making any changes. Also consider who you'd be around if you didn't have a private office. If it's with people you work with often in a shared office, it might be be
Cubes, bah (Score:2)
If anybody needs something from me, send an email. I don't have to answer it immediately (contrary to a visit/phone call), and thus get a lot more work done.
I 've refused several jobs where I'd have to sit in a cubicle. Terrible idea, no peace and quiet at all. Sure it's suited for certain occupations, bu
Headphones sprout in shared offices (Score:2)
I used to do drywall -- it's cheap (Score:2)
Because we put the drywall up ourselves the hourly rate was a bit higher than the cubicle-mechanics, but the quality was way better.
This was using steel bracketing and standard drywall & drywall screws... The month after we painted them pretty (non-beige) colors.
--dave
Cubicle Cost (Score:2)
Offices can suck (Score:2)
Then the company decided they wanted to clear out the entire floor I was on, and turn it into a center for customer meetings. I was told I could either move to a cubicle on another floor, or move to a home office. You
Depends on the job (Score:2)
Personally I'm a scientist (well, ok, I'm currently looking, but otherwise) and there's a pretty big disconnect between what you're doing. You obviously need lab space to do work in and it's just plain idiotic to have each person working in their own little lab. Each research group, yeah, but not each person. Depending on your lab and what you do people either pick out lab stations or you set up areas based on the work done in them. The thing is, you're not always working in th
Small crowded spaces... (Score:2)
From what I see Google has it right.
- Everyone working in the same space is on the same project.
- They have a dedicated cafeteria. I would imagine that eating at your desk and taking unrelated p
companies don't think that way... (Score:2)
Drastic Measures? (Score:2)
We did this (Score:2)
We did that at my company. We moved to a smaller office and most of us went from small private offices to open cubes and a lucky few got to share a small office. I heard our VP bought her Lexus with the bonus she got for saving money. Us? We got to wear shorts while we helped with the move. Oh, and one of the IS guys dropped half our Sun boxes off the back of his pickup so we g
My most productive space (Score:2)
It depends on the Person and the Position (Score:2)
Background: I've worked in software development and QA since 1980. I've worked in multi-nationals (IDM, DEC, WANG, PR1ME) down to startups with 3 people and many other sizes in between.
Sensitivity: Some people are more sensitive than others. There is a range of stimulus within which people are comfortable. Too little stimulus and they are bored; too much, and there's an urge to yell "SHUT UP!". In between is where people are most productive. Imagine a thermometer, but marked in amount of stimulus i
I so know what you mean about flow - and a closed (Score:2)
... about my office ... (Score:2)
Take my cubicle. Please! (Score:2)
Re:Don't forget the "More Important" factor (Score:5, Informative)
my take would be they'd rather share a small office together than be stuck with you.
Re:Don't forget the "More Important" factor (Score:2)
Re:Work from home (Score:2)
Re:Office Space (Score:3, Insightful)
EARTH TO "REASON": You've " made it " and have ARRIVED at where most of us would LIKE TO BE!! Why in the world would you give up a private office for a lousy extra five grand, you MORON!?
Re:Office Space (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Office Space (Score:2)
You mean stuff like porn?
Re:Agile development is changing all this (Score:2)
I'm all for consultation and coordination between team members, but lumping them together and expecting to get a 'superemployee' out of the mix is foolish.
Re:Accompanying question.... (Score:2)