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KDE 4 Screenshots

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 8 years ago | from the eye-candy dept.

KDE 458

carlmenezes writes "Screenshots of the upcoming and much talked about KDE 4 have appeared at Planet Diaz. They include screenshots of the control panel, system tray, tabbed views, music and mail views, plus a mockup or two. I don't know what the Gnome guys are up to, but KDE is starting to look seriously cool."

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firsto (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714225)

first stop?

second (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714230)

hello

More than just a mockup or two (5, Interesting)

strider44 (650833) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714231)

Can anyone tell if there are any actual screenshots in that bunch? I'm having a bit of trouble finding them.

Re:More than just a mockup or two (1)

novus ordo (843883) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714236)

Yeah I saw them for all of 2 seconds...time it takes for 10 million people to click a link.

Re:More than just a mockup or two (5, Informative)

Bwian_of_Nazareth (827437) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714361)

If it is all mock-ups it is because there is no such this as KDE 4.0. Work on KDE 4.0 is currently happening on library level, porting to QT4 is still under way. There won't be KDE4 any time soon. The UI work (desing, proof-of-concepts) is happening in parallel to the library development but does not yet constitute part of what could be called KDE4.

Re:More than just a mockup or two (5, Interesting)

vdboor (827057) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714392)

Actually, it seams some people are creating a hype with mockups from KDE4 Brainstorm at kde-look [kde-look.org] .

this is crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714394)

these images at BEST are mock ups
i talked to siego at SCaLE and he said there wont even be anything close to a beta until summer

That's all well and good... (-1, Flamebait)

John Nowak (872479) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714235)

But does anyone have info about usability improvements? KDE is currently a usability nightmare from my perspective. I personally use wmii [wmii.de] , which is a fantastic minimal window manager, but for some things a full desktop environment is nice. I currently recommend Gnome to people for such a role without hesitation because, at least out of the box, KDE is horrific.

Re:That's all well and good... (2, Insightful)

Bwian_of_Nazareth (827437) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714288)

Can you please be more specific? I have been using KDE for what is now more than 8 years and I don't have any (major) usability issues with it. Also, are you really talking about KDE (the desktop suite) or about KWin. The latter seems more likely as you are comparing it to a window manager. Well, surprise there, you can use KDE with any window manager you chose, you are not limited to KWin.

Re:That's all well and good... (1, Flamebait)

John Nowak (872479) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714300)

I'm talking about the complete environment, which is why I was comparing it to Gnome. KDE has more issues than I can get into right now, but if that's all you've been using for eight years, you probably don't see them. I think they're glaringly obvious if looked at from a non-KDE user perspective.

I'm posting because I'm genuinely interested in what is being done for the sake of usability. I do not wish to debate what the current problem are... I don't have time for that right now. :-)

Re:That's all well and good... (1)

vga_init (589198) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714316)

KDE has more issues than I can get into right now

The parent asked for you to be specific...You could have saved a whole lot time on your post if you just wrote one word: "No." :)

Re:That's all well and good... (2, Informative)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714427)

KDE has more issues than I can get into right now

The parent asked for you to be specific...You could have saved a whole lot time on your post if you just wrote one word: "No." :)

How about the stupid kwallet and multiple email accounts? Add some account settings and kwallet doesn't know about it because you've closed it? Oops, can't get email for that account. Quit kwallet - can't get email for all the accounts. AND the passwords are all permanently gone. Nice "feature."

Or in kontact - try to change the folders so that it saves mail to another folder with the same name but somewhere else in the folder hierarchy - for example, instead if /accountname/inbox/sucker to /inbox/accountname, and the changes take effect .... sort of ... (if you don't delete the previous folder, you now end up with multiple copies of your mail ... and what's worse, those copies both end up in the same folder ... which is either the old one or the new one, at random.

Not as bad as the showstopper in ThunderTurd - manually select part of a message to quote, and if the quote goes all the way to the last character, and you do a Ctl+C for copy, it quits. Cute.

Or the KDE su dialog - checking the "keep password" box doesn't.

Or how, when you select one multi-screen method (stretch across screens) and try to change it to something else (dual screens) it craps out, over and over, for weeks at a time. Finally, give up, use gnome, check KDE every few weeks ... nope, still crapped ut, nope, nope ... hey it "fixed itself". Guess another bug got scotched.

These aren't big problems in the scheme of things, since we have options (unlike certain other people), and KDE has its uses. But you did ask for specifics ... so here are a few.

The real problem is it's slow ... even in comparison to Gnome.

Re:That's all well and good... (1)

zoips (576749) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714318)

It's hard to know if there is anything being done about what you consider usability problems if you refuse to describe even one of these problems. People are supposed to divine what you percieve to be a problem?

Re:That's all well and good... (1)

John Nowak (872479) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714335)

Of course not, but a list of things being done to address usability issues is what I'm looking for. It is okay if they're not *my* usability issues. I don't need or want a point by point rebuttal to my complains... I just want some inside information on what is to come.

Re:That's all well and good... (1)

Bwian_of_Nazareth (827437) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714342)

Well, you mentioned wmii as your alternative. :-)

During that 8 years, I have also used Gnome and Windows 95 to XP (at work). I always come back to my KDE which I find most productive.

Anyway, I don't want to go into a discussion of what KDE does or does not. I reacted because there are always loads of people who think KDE is a window manager (I now see you are not one of them) and then compare it to some obscure window manager (no offense meant) which might be super and lean but cannot be utilised by KDE (it would not suit its target audience).

Let me reassure you that there is a lot of work being currently done to address usability/stability/speed. AFAIK current status is that there is no KDE4, KDE3.5 is being ported to QT4, refactored, cleaned up... all on kdelibs level. In parallel people are preparing the interface, piling up ideas but KDE is far from reaching 4.0.

Re:That's all well and good... (1)

John Nowak (872479) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714353)

For the record, I'm very aware of what KDE is. I didn't mean to compare it to wmii -- I was saying sometimes I want a simple window manager, and sometimes I want a full environment (Gnome, KDE).

Wmii is great though. Try it. :-)

Re:That's all well and good... (4, Interesting)

vga_init (589198) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714303)

For me it's always been the exact opposite. Back in the day, when KDE and GNOME were budding projects, it just seemed to me that GNOME "felt" right. It seemed to have the right level of flexibility, it was relatively good looking, and gave me a satisfied, functional feeling.

Lately times have been changing.

I still think GNOME is ahead in terms of "look and feel." KDE is usually touted as being eye candy, but you just can't convince me that GNOME doesn't look better. GNOME still feels comfortable to me, so what about it drove me to use KDE, my preferred desktop at the moment?

Functionality. Sometimes I get sick of looking at KDE, but I keep on using it because it does everything I like. I get to have windows that snap together as I resize them, a set of graphical tools that can actually be configured, a file manager that isn't almost useless, etc.

My largest complaint against GNOME right now is their philosophy that more features means less usability. Even if that were true, I don't see how that justifies dropping features to improve usability. Give me something slightly more challenging to use but does everything that I want.

Re:That's all well and good... (1)

John Nowak (872479) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714320)

FWIW, the current Gnome file manager is very usable. Just tick the box so it uses the browser and not the spatial mode. The browser is minimal, but is has all of the necessary features and works very well. As for configuration, both Gnome and KDE have the critical options in place. KDE just has a lot more that seem useless to me (focus under mouse, focus follows mouse, focus strictly follows mouse, etc). KDE also has lots of insane UI issues, where the taskbar preferences you get from right-clicking the taskbar aren't *exactly* the same as the ones you get when picking it from the "control panel", etc. It just doesn't feel polished at all. To be honest, it is fundamentally *bad*, and needs a complete redesign on the UI level.

Re:That's all well and good... (4, Interesting)

vga_init (589198) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714363)

I just pine away for the old GNOME where apps came with a healthy set of options instead of a insufficient few that don't exactly represent the settings I want or need. The configuration editing tool helped me to unearth a lot of hidden settings, and it lead me to becoming slightly more satisfied, but it didn't exactly do everything that I wanted.

As for things like "focus follows mouse" and the like, I used to be an avid user of features like that. Not in KDE, but in GNOME and every other window manager. They can be quite useful, but I kind of got over that and settled into "click to focus." But whatever other people prefer is cool with me.

I think nautilus is pretty good, but for some reason I'm not very fond of using it. It seems to get in my way, and I don't like that feeling, but I do believe you when you say that I can change settings to fix it for my tastes. Of course, I still maintain that konqueror is a fine file manager in its own right.

Also, I find that you complaint about the configuration menus and whatnot valid. KDE takes a bit of customization, but I usually just sit down with a new install and go through the control panel until I'm satisfied. Most users shouldn't have to do this. So far the way the options are grouped together and how they present themselves in the UI is a bit of a mess. The latest incarnation of control panel suits my tastes less than the original idea, but hopefully they sort that out.

Re:That's all well and good... (1)

John Nowak (872479) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714418)

FWIW, I'm fine with an option for focus follows mouse. But what is focus strictly follows mouse? What is focus under mouse? There is no description of any kind, and it seems rather superfluous. Perhaps I'm missing something.

Re:That's all well and good... (2, Informative)

arkhan_jg (618674) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714514)

I believe it's actually an old unix standard, rather a KDE specific thing. As I understand it, the implementation is as follows:

focus follows mouse - window focus is whichever window the mouse touched last, but can be 'stolen' by explicit actions such as opening new windows, popups etc (if you launch a shortcut etc)
focus under mouse - window focus is whichever window the mouse touched last, and cannot be stolen.
focus strictly under mouse - window focus is whichever window the mouse is hovering over, and if the mouse is not touching a window, no window has focus.

Great way of starting a flamewar (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714311)

Well done.
Simply calling KDE a usability nightmare is not only inaccurate, but also is a clear indication that all you are looking for is to start a stupid Gnome vs. KDE flamewar.

Improving usability has been one of the major concerns in KDE developement for some time now, as you would know had you actually used KDE recently. Just look at all the KDE devs working together with openusability.org.

That said, there are of course enough areas where usability can and should be improved in KDE and from loosely following some developement discussions, making KDE more usable is one if not the major goal of the upcoming KDE 4 release.

Re:Great way of starting a flamewar (2, Insightful)

John Nowak (872479) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714326)

I don't want a flamewar. I've used KDE within the past two months (Kubuntu live CD). To me, it is a nightmare of redundant options, unpredictable behaviour, and completely hideous defaults. Fuck, the text doesn't even fit in some of the configuration windows unless I resize them! (Why they can be resized so small that they're useless in the first place I don't know.)

I want to know what, if anything, is being done to correct these issues and many more without scouring mailing lists. That's all.

Re:Great way of starting a flamewar (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714345)

"Fuck, the text doesn't even fit in some of the configuration windows unless I resize them!"
Fuck, you just discovered a well known and annoying kubuntu bug, not a kde bug.
Same goes for the default layout. It's kubuntu specific, not the KDE default layout.
So all you showed us so far is two kubuntu problems. Well done.

Oh, and btw.:
http://usability.kde.org/ [kde.org]

Have fun!

Re:Great way of starting a flamewar (1)

John Nowak (872479) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714362)

Thanks for (roughly) correcting me. What's with such a strange bug in Kubuntu anyway? It looks absolutely amateurish and awful!

I'm glad to see there is a usability team. Hopefully as time goes on they'll steer KDE the right way.

Re:That's all well and good... (1)

10Ghz (453478) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714402)

But does anyone have info about usability improvements?


Yes.

Already slashdotted? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714239)

Already slashdotted?

It looks cool, so it is cool? (4, Insightful)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714244)

I think that trying to judge a book by its cover is probably the worst way to determine the utility of a window manager. One ought not be swayed by high resolution backgrounds and pretty fractal images. Then, of course, we live in an age where Mr. Britney Spears has a hit album, so I don't really have much confidence in the general public's ability to discern quality products from glitter-encrusted dog shit.

Oh...Shiny!

BTW, the link is Schiavo.

Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714259)

KDE isn't a window manager, it's a desktop environment, shininess is a big part of what it does.

Incidentally, you are, in fact, part of the "general public". Regardless of what you tell yourself, you are not better than the rest of us. Take my word for it, you just aren't.

Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? (4, Interesting)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714277)

How a program looks is often indicative on the time and care that went into the program itself. If it looks like absolute shit, there probably wasn't much time that went into it, or the people didn't know what they were doing. If it looks great, it MIGHT be good.

Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714290)

It takes all of 3 seconds to put a fancy shmancy hi-res wallpaper up. There's nothing particularly impressive about screenshots where the wallpaper is the primary thing being shown (which is how most screenshots are set up)

Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? (1)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714308)

Which isn't what I found impressive about the screenshots being shown (see a slashdot post further down). Way to go at being judgemental (although in all fairness, it being slashdotted doesn't help).

Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714478)

So by your amazing scheme, a screenshot of a login prompt at a Linux tty would mean that "not much time went into" Linux?

Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? (1)

egarland (120202) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714355)

I think that trying to judge a book by its cover is probably the worst way to determine the utility of a window manager.

Agreed. But they appear to be working on some significant usability improvements. If they do what was outlined in this [imageshack.us] (which I believe is a design mockup, article is slashdotted already so I don't know) they'd be a lot closer to winning me over.

Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714369)

Yeah it looks shiny allright, looks like the KDE developers looked at Windows Vista beta/screenshot, and decided to be the first with those shiny 'glass' looks. Makes them lots cooler than Windows of course.

Re:It looks cool, so it is cool? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714389)

Fuck you to the idiots who modded this worthless karma whore up.

Schiavo? (1)

ImaLamer (260199) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714408)

It does seem that the photos disappeared as quick as they appeared.

Coral Cache (4, Informative)

Nycto (138650) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714247)

Coral Cache for the curious:
have [nyud.net]
appeared [nyud.net]

(that first one was working for me, but I haven't been able to get the second to load yet)

Re:Coral Cache (2, Insightful)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714296)

I've yet to get any of the pictures loaded in the cache. Had it been linked to in the first place, perhaps the cache would be working better.

boo (-1, Troll)

Godslayer017044 (893090) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714248)

Boo! KDE suXors, Gnome pwns

Coral cache links (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714253)

As it seems already ./'ed: I hope some day ./ editors will use some of the wonderful things that internet has, like Coral Cache.

Re:Coral cache links (1, Offtopic)

baadger (764884) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714334)

Why is this modded informative? In this case Coral doesn't help in letting us see what we go to see... because the screenshots on the linked page use absolute URL's, and CoralCDN doesn't do any page rewriting.

Setup proxomitron or middleman to rewrite abs-url's on coral pages and then you're rocking.

The goggles, they do nothing! (1)

js92647 (917218) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714255)

Not when the website has been /.'d :).

Re:The goggles, they do nothing! (0, Troll)

Godslayer017044 (893090) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714278)

testing... sfsdf qtowas ffesa you are all gay

Re:The goggles, they do nothing! (1)

satcomdaddy1 (938185) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714282)

And apparently the Coral Cache as well.
Oh well, I'll have to wait to see screenshots of eye candy......as was stated earlier, have they increased functionality? It's currently kinda like looking at screenshots if Vista.

Slashdotted (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714257)

God work, guys! Only 9 comments and already slashdotted. What's the point of linking to sites that can't handle the load? Can someone post a link to a chache?

word (1)

sakura the mc (795726) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714262)

kde owns

E17 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714264)

Aaaaah. Screw KDE.

Compile today's CVS of E17. Sure every other recompile will break functionality (right now MPlayer is giving me a lot of shit) but come on, look at it! It's so purdy.

But seriously, I've been using Enlightenment for 8+ years and I've never had any kind of complaint about usability or speed or anything.

Slashdotted :( (1)

ASUSanator (700145) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714266)

Even without seeing the screenshots i can tell you that i care about the functionality/speed FIRST and the Looks Second. In my opinion KDE looks fine ATM they just need to refine it some more add some more interesting features and keep speeding it up.

Re:Slashdotted :( (1)

MORB (793798) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714432)

Yeah, but of course if you had seen the screenshot, you'd know that they're mockups that are as much about usability and functionality than look.

But then, you'd have been at risk to make a relevant post.

Screenshots from article (2, Informative)

LaurenBC (924800) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714273)

KDE makes me want to log out of Linux, but that's just my opinion. Here's some of the better pictures from the forum post that seems unresponsive atm. Gogo google-cache.
http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/2962/components 31jm.png [imageshack.us]
http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/707/possibleui1 3ke.png [imageshack.us]
http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/5343/fake5bo6pi .jpg [imageshack.us]
http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/2605/fakepanels etup7wv8km.jpg [imageshack.us]
http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/8478/desktop1vn 1co.jpg [imageshack.us]

Re:Screenshots from article (3, Informative)

NetRAVEN5000 (905777) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714302)

Might wanna re-check your sources - that foot in the corner indicates that it's GNOME, not KDE.

Re:Screenshots from article (4, Informative)

strider44 (650833) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714348)

And the three "screenshots" that are supposedly of KDE are actually mockups from KDE Artists not actual screenshots of the dev version!

Re:Screenshots from article (1)

kyrre (197103) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714307)

>KDE makes me want to log out of Linux, but that's just my opinion.

Could you please clearify this statement?

Re:Screenshots from article (1)

LaurenBC (924800) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714330)

My mistake, one of the screenshots certainly is from gnome. but
http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/8478/desktop1vn 1co.jpg [imageshack.us] is definitely KDE. and the entire article is at


http://64.233.179.104/search?sourceid=navclient-ff &ie=UTF-8&rls=GGGL,GGGL:2005-09,GGGL:en&q=cache%3A http%3A%2F%2Fwww.planetdiaz.com%2Fforums%2Findex.p hp%3Fshowtopic%3D141 [64.233.179.104]

Apologies for that, but the coral cache wasn't working great.

Re:Screenshots from article (4, Informative)

10Ghz (453478) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714456)

My mistake, one of the screenshots certainly is from gnome. but
http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/8478/desktop1vn [imageshack.us] 1co.jpg is definitely KDE.


Uh, that's a mockup, not a screenshot. Seriously, there's not much to show at the moment, the work on KDE4 is concentrating of the libraries and porting. There can't be no screenshots of some whiz-bang KDE4 GUI, because that GUI does not exists. I bet that if you could get KDE4 to compile and run, it would look 95% identical to KDE3.5.

Re:Screenshots from article (1)

MadJo (674225) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714324)

hmmm that second image you linked to looks far more like Gnome, than like KDE, are you sure that's an KDE image?

Re:Screenshots from article (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714415)

Could you explain your reasoning for your anti-kde comment? I am honestly curious.

Re:Screenshots from article (1)

Kyro (302315) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714430)

IMHO those mockups look like it's trying to look like Vista.
Of course those are only mockups, but a few I've seen seem to be heading in this direction. It is better than keramik though :p

Other screenshots (3, Informative)

titten (792394) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714287)

Since the Slashdot effect is working it's magic, here are (unfortunately only three) other screenshots: http://garret.wordpress.com/2006/01/30/kde4-screen shots/ [wordpress.com]

Re:Other screenshots (1)

10Ghz (453478) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714436)

Those are NOT screenshots. Those are mockups. There are many people who are floating around ideas what KDE4 could look like and behave. And many of them have created mockups to illustrate their ideas. Those "screenshots" are just that.

I haven't seen the screenshots mentioned in the original post, but I have a feeling that they too are just mockups or extremely early screenshots of pre-beta code that does not in any shape or form reflect the final product.

old news (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714299)

boo, this link was posted on distrowatch like 2 weeks ago...

Looking at KDE 4 and Vista (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714305)

I suddenly feel a strong urge to hug my Mac running OS X.

no offense... (-1, Flamebait)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714313)

but let's be honest. You've probably heard the quote, "BSD is for people that love Unix; Linux is for people that hate Windows." The sad truth is, it's true. Many Linux users have no particular loyalty to Linux and would just as soon use something else. While we may protest that KDE or GNOME are better than OS X, the collective orgasm when Apple announced an OSx86 show that free (beer) beats free (speech).

More than a few people from my local LUG have installed a bootlegged copy of the OSx86 beta. One of our members showed off his toshiba laptop running OS X, which was quite popular, even among the old school unix types.

It doesn't really matter what features or eye candy KDE or GNOME add, because OS X does it better. Flame me if you will, but I've been using Linux and BSD for over a decade now. An OS is a tool, I want one that works, and I think most people feel the same way.

Re:no offense... (1, Offtopic)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714373)

You've probably heard the quote, "BSD is for people that love Unix; Linux is for people that hate Windows." The sad truth is, it's true

Its hard for me reply because I don't see what you are driving at. Are you saying we should all run OSX?

I know a few Linux people who also own an Apple laptop. I recomended one to my sister as well. But people aren't abandoning Linux, unless they are non-technical people satisfied with an alternative.

I run NetBSD on my web servers because I can update the OS without having to totally rethink my own configuration. I run Ubuntu on my laptop because Gnome gives me a nice desktop, provided you don't want it to stay up for months. I run fvwm on fedora on my main workstation because it really does stay up for months.

An improved KDE will attract more people to *NIX. That's a good thing as far as I am concerned.

Why is this moderated up? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714376)

let's be honest. You've probably heard the quote, "BSD is for people that love Unix; Linux is for people that hate Windows." The sad truth is, it's true. Many Linux users have no particular loyalty to Linux and would just as soon use something else. While we may protest that KDE or GNOME are better than OS X, the collective orgasm when Apple announced an OSx86 show that free (beer) beats free (speech).

More than a few people from my local LUG have installed a bootlegged copy of the OSx86 beta. One of our members showed off his toshiba laptop running OS X, which was quite popular, even among the old school unix types.

It doesn't really matter what features or eye candy KDE or GNOME add, because OS X does it better. Flame me if you will, but I've been using Linux and BSD for over a decade now. An OS is a tool, I want one that works, and I think most people feel the same way.


Wow, it's startling to me how many words you can use and say nothing.

First off, both KDE and GNOME will run in *BSD, making your distinction between users mostly irrelevent. Second, the links in this story are mockups of KDE. KDE. Not OS X. So let's break down the actual content of your moderated "insightful" post, shall we? It says (1) BSD and Linux have different users (2) your friends have installed OS X on x86. (3) OS X is better. (4) You want an OS that works...whatever that's supposed to mean. I guess we can distill your comments to something like "Hey, I like OS X better than KDE or GNOME!" Okay...

"Offtopic" isn't exactly right for your post. Neither is "troll". If only there were a "insipid", "bland", or "uninsightful".

Let's be honest. If there is any value to your post, it's that hopfully some of the mods can learn something about what not to mod up.

Re:no offense... (4, Insightful)

Alioth (221270) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714382)

What's that idiotic quote about Linux vs BSD users got to do with KDE? KDE is *not* a Linux desktop, it's a Unix deskopt (i.e. Linux, *BSD, AIX, Solaris etc.) I don't understand why *BSD users continuously whine about how Linux is 'trying to emulate Windows' when GNOME and KDE are *their* desktops, too.

By the way, I started with Linux in 1992. I started with Linux in 1992 because I loved Unix and wanted it on my PC.

Re:no offense... (1)

Ulrich Hobelmann (861309) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714443)

I don't know about KDE, but Gnome seems very much platform dependent to me (as does much modern open-source software, sadly). It runs perfectly on Linux, but on my Mac there are lots of problems.

Cleanly written stuff that doesn't make lots of assumptions about what platform it runs on wouldn't have that problem.

(I think KDE used to be more portable than Gnome, and would even run on *BSD when Gnome wouldn't. Hmm, maybe I should install KDE on my Mac to compare...)

Re:no offense... (1, Troll)

dartarrow (930250) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714387)

An OS is a tool, I want one that works, and I think most people feel the same way.

No, I want one that makes me feel cool, intelligent and fuels my eliteist, I-wanna-be-the-minority emo mind while being able to talk about words that people don't understand like GPL and FOSS while running programs with names that have no intuitive meaning like Gaim and Gimp and Evolution while showing off Glossy purdy Icons and Opac Docklets. If I just wanted one that works I'd stick with Windows 95.

Re:no offense... (4, Insightful)

10Ghz (453478) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714428)

It doesn't really matter what features or eye candy KDE or GNOME add, because OS X does it better.


It does? I have Mac Mini with OS X, and I have been using it for about a year now. I also have a tower-PC running KDE and Linux. And while OS X does have all kinds of nifty eye-candy, and I used it exclusively for few months (to find out what the noise was all about). But after that time I noticed that I simply enjoy using KDE more. It does what I want it to do, and it does it in a way I want it to be done. In OS X, I have to adjusts my workflow and expectations to meet the OS, in Linux and KDE it's the opposite. I can change the GUI and the system to meet my expectations.

OS X is a nice OS, no question about it. But it's not the Holy Grail of OS'es or GUI's (despite the fact that some people try to claim that it is just that). For me, OS X does NOT do it better. I do love the hardware, and I'm planning to install Linux on that Mini.

sources? (1)

cg0def (845906) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714332)

Am I mistaken or is everybody posting KDE 4 screenshots all of a sudden? Also what I would like to know is how certain is it that these are screenshots of what is actually going to be in KDE 4 ( vanilla maybe ) and not some concept that a dev is working on? Seen a lot of the latter ones so it is a fair question. Other than that KDE 4 is shaping up to be a fairly large step up so I think I like it.

Re:sources? (4, Interesting)

LaurenBC (924800) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714341)

It's worth noting one of the screenshots has the word 'fake' in it, and to quote an anonymous poster on the forum these were posted on
'I don't want to burst any bubbles, but I just thought I'd mention that these are certainly not screenshots of KDE in developement. These are just ideas posted as mockup, some of which have been around for a long time'

hmph.

OOooo, Peerrrrtyyyy (2, Insightful)

Scott Swezey (678347) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714340)

Ok, those -DO- look sweet, but the actual graphics are really the least of my concerns for a window manager. I would rather see it be very fast an responsive, clean, easy to understand, and setup up intellegently so that even my mother or grandparents can use it.

Oh ya, let's hope they ditch the two part windowsish looking start menu thing. First thing I did in XP was disable that... Instead lets see smart toolbars / menu's / buttons / etc.

Re:OOooo, Peerrrrtyyyy (1)

Bwian_of_Nazareth (827437) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714349)

KDE is not a Window Manager. KDE is a suite of applications, a desktop environment. Yes, part of that is kwin, KDE window manager.

The start button is part of kicker, KDE panel. You can easily turn it off or customise it to fit your needs.

BTW, there is currently no KDE 4.0, not even in alpha, KDE is being ported on the library level.

Re:OOooo, Peerrrrtyyyy (1)

Scott Swezey (678347) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714474)

All good points, but I think they also strengthen my point. Don't get me wrong, I am -good- with computers, when people I know have issues, they call me and I usualy get it fixed, and I am even doing well in my CS classes. But still, these things need to come down a few more levels to go main stream. (Not that they should cut down on what is there, it's great that anyone who wants to can go even further and actually understand what is going on... But for the most part, I just want mine to work, well.)

No more cache links pls! (0)

slashdotmsiriv (922939) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714359)

If I see one more post about the /. effect on the site I will start screaming!

mirror (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714368)

mirror mirror on net!

I can't access this site yet! ;)

Poof! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714380)

And even quicker.. they have disappeared.

Tiiiiime, is on our side. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714383)

Anyone notice these are almost a month old?

New Slashdot gimmicks (1, Funny)

ArsenneLupin (766289) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714384)

While waiting for the smoldering heap of plastic at planetdiaz to recover, I looked a bit around, and noticed the new "Related Stories" widget. Is this filled in automatically? If it is, it will become seriously funny when a dupe shows up.

Cultural differences? (4, Interesting)

Nahooda (906991) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714399)

You know Slashdot is american based when you read all the negative comments about KDE.

Over here in Germany it's enormously popular.

Must be some kind of clash of civilizations...

I'm using it, too, as I like the integration of apps and window manager. On the negative side, the high level of integration can be security problem as Windows shows.

-DBS

Re:Cultural differences? (0, Troll)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714468)

Erotic movies featuring tons of shitting are also wildly popular in Germany. As are BMWs and Budweiser.

I don't think that Germany is the place to be looking for examples of good taste.

Re:Cultural differences? (0, Flamebait)

ardor (673957) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714500)

Then again, after drinking US coffee and US beer, it becomes quite clear that the USA is not the place to be looking for examples of good taste either. :)

Re:Cultural differences? (2, Funny)

layer3switch (783864) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714515)

USA is not about good taste. It's about "great taste but less filling."

Re:Cultural differences? (1)

layer3switch (783864) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714508)

Budweiser is American beer.. made by American brewer... founded by Ameri.. ok, you get the picture... and I'm missing the point.

Re:Cultural differences? (1)

mute47 (686568) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714511)

Dear god, that is a BadAnology....

Re:Cultural differences? (1)

layer3switch (783864) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714493)

If that is true, shouldn't Slashdot comments also be negative against Linux? After all, Linus T. is NOT from America.

Although there is culture clash... nothing to do with Nationality but culture clash between GUI vs CLI, KDE vs GNOME, Linux vs BSD, Microsoft vs OSS, and oh yeah ... MacOSX vs not-so-attractive yet smarter people.

Give me Slashdot or Give me Sex! ...

Stable release date? (2, Insightful)

pinkocommie (696223) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714407)

Anyone know of an estimated (stable) release date?

Yawn (1, Redundant)

tymbow (725036) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714409)

There are so many KDE 4 screenshot archives about at the moment and none of the seem to share much similarity, so I'm not inclined to believe any of them are the real deal. Personally I think KDE still suffers from bloat (particularly options bloat) and could it please drop the K-this and K-that names - it's childish and unprofessional.

Re:Yawn (1)

Nahooda (906991) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714444)

the K-this and K-that names - it's childish and unprofessional

But the K indicates that a particular app is written for KDE and that's a practical hint for KDE users as it means a certain level of integration with the desktop environment used.

If I have to choose between two apps which have nearly the same functionality (theoretically speaking), as a KDE user, I'd chose the one written for KDE containing a K in it's name.

-DBS

i hope they get to sound (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714423)

i hope they get rid of aRTS so i can have full duplex sound w/ non kde apps and kde won't continue to take /dev/dsp hostage.

Re:i hope they get to sound (1)

ardor (673957) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714457)

/dev/dsp is always taken hostage unless the sound driver supports multiple sound streams, either by internal software mixing or by mixing in hardware. This is the very reason why sound daemons like arts or esd exist.

Of course, this changes once dmix is stable enough. And I hope that its latency and accuracy is not as bad as esd's.

Re:i hope they get to sound (1)

BenjyD (316700) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714486)

I think dmix is enabled by default in the latest stable version of ALSA, 1.0.10.

Re:i hope they get to sound (1)

seezer (842248) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714480)

aRTS is going to be replaced due to project inactivity

Don't develop for KDE. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714460)

If you're developing commercial apps for KDE, you're wasting your time as it's significantly cheaper to be developing for Windows XP. As the toolkit that KDE uses is extremely expensive [trolltech.com] :
Platform: Console Edition, Desktop Light Edition, Desktop Edition
One Platform: $1780, $1990, $3300
Two Platforms: $2670, $2990, $4950
Three Platforms: $3560, $3980, $6600
Oh, sure, if you don't mind being having your code held hostage by Trolltech, by being forced to go GPL or pay them - go ahead. But you're a moron if you do so.

May I suggest wxWidgets [wxwidgets.org] or GTK [gtk.org] (for use with Gnome [gnome.org] ) instead. You'll still get cross-platform compatability, but you'll be able to choose what license you use for your code (closed or open source).

Huh? All those shots remind me of..... (1)

ardor (673957) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714476)

.... gnome!

Am I the only one seeing odd similarities between KDE4 and Gnome screenshots? Well, isn't all that important to me, as I use KDE not because of its optics, but because its tech is so much better than Gnome's. I mean, kioslaves vs. gnomevfs, konqueror vs. nautilus etc. (Also, I don't know if a gnome counterpart to KParts exists). The underlying systems are much better integrated and designed. The UI itself is a matter of taste.

There are NOT screenshots! (4, Informative)

10Ghz (453478) | more than 8 years ago | (#14714481)

I hate to rain on your parade guys, but these are NOT "screenshots" of KDE4, and I have no idea why the admin of those forums (who posted the pictures) claims that they are. These pictures are mockups. Not screenshots but mockups. Many people have ideas what KDE could look like, and many of them have created mockups to demosntrate their ideas. There are many KDE-related forums/websites that are full of such mockups.

There are no interesting KDE4-screenshots to show because there's nothing to show really. The work on KDE4 is going on at the library-level at the moment. The actual GUI (if you could get it work that is) would propably be almost identical to KDE3.5.

Move along, nothing to see here.

Kde 4 screenshots - don't belive it! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14714494)

KDE 4 will probably be released in the end of 2006 or beguining of 2007. But it could take even a bit more time!

So please people don't get confused. There's yet no single KDE 4 screenshot at all, because they're still working in the base libs which are getting ported to Qt 4 and developed. All those screenshots are just MOCKUPS from KDE users who want to contribute to the brainstorm...

If you want to see KDE 4 screenshots, keep an eye on dot.kde.org [kde.org] and who knowns, maybe around summer you will see something interesting ;-). (But that's just my opinion/feeling)
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