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Razorback2 Servers Seized

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 8 years ago | from the new-sterile-servers-back-online dept.

365

An anonymous reader writes "Slyck is reporting that Belgian and Swiss authorities have raided and seized Razorback2's servers. From the article: 'Razorback2 was an eDonkey2000 indexing server - very different in nature from an indexing site such as ShareReactor. Unlike indexing sites, Razorback2's index was only available through an eDonkey2000 client such as eMule. While it does not host any actual files or multimedia material, it does index the location of such files on the eDonkey2000 network. The legality of such indexing remains questionable, however this has not deterred copyright enforcement actions.'"

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365 comments

Hmm (-1, Redundant)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777060)

Picard: "Data, their species is aware of the existence of copyright law..."

Data: "No, sir."

Picard: *long pause* "Oops..."

Re:Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777251)

Are you like that "Jimmy" guy from Seinfeld where he refers to himself always in third-person (eg: "Jimmy like to read Slashdot")
But instead of that quirk, you redefine current discussion in the context in terms of Star Trek, the Next Generation?

We have a guy like that at work that redefines everything in terms of Simpsons episodes.
So, if we have a server problem, he pipes up and says "you know, this is just like in season three where Homer & Bart ...etc, etc. etc.)

Re:Hmm (1)

geniusj (140174) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777382)

Awesome! I know this guy on slashdot that redefines everything in terms of Seinfeld episodes. So, if someone likens something to Star Trek, for example, he pipes up and says "Are you like that 'Jimmy' guy from Seinfeld where he refers to himself always in third-person?" ;)

in other news... (0, Redundant)

Abstract_Me (799786) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777063)

100 similar services have sprung up in the last ten minutes...

Decentralize (5, Informative)

ZephyrXero (750822) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777097)

This is why decentralized file-sharing is the only way to go.... maybe now stuff like Waste or the more traditional Gnutella will gain a big rise in popularity?

Re:Decentralize (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777155)

Indeed. People will wise up. I hate the term piracy, because it's NOT actual piracy. Piracy is "stealing" a physical object. Intellectual property is NOT property, and I will forever hold to the FSF on this point.

I prefer the term revenus stream hijacking, because the people that download stuff would not have bought it anyway.

I'm looking forward to seeing more decentralized efforts put forth. This is why everyone needs to push for free software and strong crypto.

Re:Decentralize (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777349)

Indeed. People will wise up. I hate the term piracy, because it's NOT actual piracy. Piracy is "stealing" a physical object. Intellectual property is NOT property, and I will forever hold to the FSF on this point.

I prefer the term revenus stream hijacking, because the people that download stuff would not have bought it anyway.
It sometimes takes years for professionals to understand inmate behavior. In just one post, you managed to put several criminal psychologists out of work...

Re:Decentralize (4, Interesting)

PFI_Optix (936301) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777384)

the people that download stuff would not have bought it anyway.

That's just not true. People download more than they would have bought, that goes without saying...but services like iTunes have demonstrated that people will pay for their downloads if they're made available for purchase. I know people who never bought CDs who now buy songs online because they can buy only the songs they want. Prior to that, they pirated the material.

As for the wording of it, whether you like it or not "unauthorized duplication and distribution" is becoming part of the definition of piracy. You might as well give up that fight.

Re:Decentralize (0)

networkBoy (774728) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777506)

While I agree with you, I don't think that you'll ever make that argument work on /.
sorry.
-nB

Re:Decentralize (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777573)

Indeed. People have drank the corporate kool-aid far too long. My brother got an ipod a couple of weeks ago. He's no geek by any stretch, and he got into some trouble with syncing on more than one amchine, etc. I told him to return it, buy an iriver or other player, switch to linux and use rhythmbox because he wants to have more freedom with what he downloads. Easy. Rip it to mp3 and/or ogg vorbis and then share it. DRM is evil plain and simple. If I buy a CD, which I buy often enough, if I want to share with people, I should be able to. I will never use a MS or Apple product because they encourage IP and DRM. I cannot lose my idealistic views on freedom so others can profit. Call me un-pragmatic, but in the end, I have my freedom and others don't.
Besides, "piracy" (I hate that term, it's not accurate) is getting easier and easier with things like ipods, not better. AAC is easy to rip to almost any other format. And while you will lose a tad of quality in the process, it's not enough to get your knickers in a twist over, so I've read about people who fill their ipods up with all kinds of things and then share them with others.

Re:Decentralize (0)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777542)

Piracy is not "stealing a physical object", it's a word whose definitions are numerous but include "copyright infringement" (unlicensed radio broadcasting on frequencies that require licensing is also called piracy.) The definition that includes stealing physical objects actually goes somewhat further - me walking into a store and walking out with a CD that I haven't paid for (and should have) isn't piracy, unless the store's on a vessel in international waters, and I've just stolen that CD as part of a process of raiding the vessel.

BTW I find your assertion that "people that download stuff would not have bought it anyway" to be largely false. I know far too many people who see unlicensed P2P as a substitute for buying music. There are the handful that see P2P as a way to try out new artists, and there's the occasional poor student who doesn't have any money to spend on CDs anyway, but by and large, a substantial amount of unlicensed P2P use appears to be to circumvent the notion of paying for the music people listen to.

Re:Decentralize (4, Informative)

zwei2stein (782480) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777199)

Thats why eMule (THE ed2k client i might add) had Kademlia (decentralized ed2k-kinda-combatible network) running paralel to server network for quite a time...

Re:Decentralize (2, Informative)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777574)

We also got mldonkey, supporting overnet and kademlia (a "remake" of overnet from emule), gnutella 2 and 1 AND some more... so as usual ther does not change a thing for most users. ;)

will offline-poeple ever get it? ;)

That's not enough (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777213)

There also needs to be a lot more legit or political oriented (ie, about China, NK etc.) content distributed this way. That way our courts will find a legitimate use. Else ultimately not just p2p .. but encryption itself will be banned. Only way to have encryption is if you are going to an SSL website that is "licensed" or "registered". ISP's will have no block all unauthorized protocols, and any encrypted traffic going to an "unlicensed" website.

Don't say you never saw it predicted.

But the "bright side" is yeah there may be stego etc. still for criminals to use. Until the "war on stego" happens.

Re:That's not enough (-1, Flamebait)

nasch (598556) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777334)

The ACLU would cream their pants if the US government tried that. As much as the Bush administration tries to crap on the Constitution, it's still in effect.

Re:That's not enough (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777487)

As much as the ACLU tries to crap all over the constitution, theyre still a money grubbing institution who also happens to want to ruin our country.

Re:That's not enough (1, Funny)

Tweekster (949766) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777523)

You know I have hear some really crackpot stuff, but that is just flat out lucid... I think we need a war on whatever narcotics you are taking by the pound. Do you really believe this idiocy you spew? If you do believe it, you must be the most joyless person ever to be encountered.

Re:Decentralize / Anonymous (4, Informative)

xiando (770382) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777418)

I personally find anonymous Internet usage (regardless of protocol) a very good thing. http://tor.eff.org/ [eff.org] is very nice for the World Wide Web. However, it is very slow - but worth it if you want to be anonymous. The same applies to file-sharing if you like "that" kind of files. Tor can be used with _any_ P2P programs protocol and is thus highly recommended. I urge anyone who makes p2p software to immediately implement support for it. I agree decentralized file-sharing is good. Back in the 90s a lot of folks were doing centralized, they met in schools or other places and copied files. Those were called "copy-parties". The police, in their glory, rided some of those on behalf of the glorious Record and Movie Industry (RIAA/MPAA). Hmm. Now that sounds familiar. Wonder who oh who ordered the raid on the Razorback2 Servers? On a last point, please beware of this: There are information on the Internet that are very important but ignored and/or blacked out by governments and the corporate media. These video files are generally free and freely available on p2p services (like on my bittorrent TV site) but governments are willing to go to great length, even covert torture here in Norway, to shut such sites down. This is something one should consider seriously when reading about sites being shut down.

Re:Decentralize (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777494)

suck my dick you fucking file-sharing thieves

Sucks... (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777099)

...because it was the biggest and best ed2k server but there are lots of others left. Also, there is KAD (kademlia - a decentralized search) which has pretty much replaced the ed2k servers for me (you get *FAR* more and way better results using KAD instead). The worst problem I see is more people will rely on KAD, increasing the server load...

Re:Sucks... (2, Funny)

tribentwrks (807384) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777153)

(you get *FAR* more and way better results using KAD instead). The worst problem I see is more people will rely on KAD, increasing the server load...

Hmmm, I worry about server load increase, and yet I post a glowing review of said servers on SLASHDOT!

Re:Sucks... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777330)

Yeah, it sure sucks that pirating the shit out of everything and not paying for it will be a little more difficult. You and I deserve to freeload for the rest of our lives and never pay anybody for their work.

Re:Sucks... (1)

dtsazza (956120) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777507)

The worst problem I see is more people will rely on KAD, increasing the server load......and making it a larger target. It's certainly no coincidence that the "biggest and best ed2k server" was the one that got shut down. The agencies know they can't take down every server, so they concentrate on the few where it'll hit the users hard. Then a new one will rise to prominence, and be shut down... over time, enough big setbacks cause popular networks to be less useful, and newer ones come up under the public radar to be the Next Big Thing.

Granted, there have been a lot of technical innovations, but the major reason why there's so much churn in filesharing is that it sucks to be big - it paints a nice big "sue me" target on you...

"A menace to society" (2, Interesting)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777104)

I think they're blowing it a little out of proportion with that statement.

But from the article's description, RazorBack2 does seem to be host to all sorts of unsavory content. Not to mention party to illegal activities. Now it's gone and some other network will step in to take its place.

I'm sure all those poor kids who don't have money to go out and actually buy CDs will now be inconvenienced. Boo hoo.

Re:"A menace to society" (3, Informative)

insert cool name (889389) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777224)

But from the article's description, RazorBack2 does seem to be host to all sorts of unsavory content

According to TFA they didn't host any content savory or otherwise, they just indexed what was available elsewhere. Kind of like a search engine does. . .

----

http://www.jarfinder.com/ [jarfinder.com]

Re:"A menace to society" (1)

Overly Critical Guy (663429) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777411)

Even Google makes an effort to filter things out, such as child porn. Claiming indexing isn't the same as actually sharing it is like saying the guy driving the car that carried some burglars had nothing to do with their crimes. The indexing servers are there to directly facilitate piracy and connect users to other users.

Re:"A menace to society" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777459)

Wouldn't that make it harder to track down the purveyors of this sort of thing?

Re:"A menace to society" (5, Funny)

Frazbin (919306) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777537)

Making crazy, half cocked, analogies is like driving a cart full of dachsunds through a marshmallow factory.

Re:"A menace to society" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777565)

The indexing servers are there to directly facilitate piracy and connect users to other users.

You say that like it's a bad thing. That's why we need to decentralize. And it also makes it important to develope a wireless mesh(cloud) to get the corporate ISPs and gov't snoops out of the way. You can cry all you want about your struggling industry, but it means nothing to me. Look for another way to get paid.

Re:"A menace to society" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777419)

yeah. but what sucks is that the MPA (is this the MPAA?) has all of this power, and other nations are cracking down on piracy. I also love how they always put a spin on these stories "[it is a menace to society, people could download child porn, and terrorist groups can download bomb making instructions]" Um, terrorists can just ask another terrorist, het ahmed, how do i make a bomb? and, this sounds sick, but pedofiles usually make thier own porn. So.... rather than arrest pedofiles and terrorists, we will just shut down some server somewhere, and not have to worry about getting shot at.

kids dont download music anymore, we have myspace now. kids download full length movies now. get with the times :)

Interesting (2, Interesting)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777106)

How come when the property of regular citizens is siezed for investigation of a piracy or drug-related crime, you always hear the term "raid."

I mean, surely when the Justice Department needs to take a look at Microsoft's paperwork, they send in in an elite squad of ATF agents to rappel down from above, crash through the roof, and storm the building with machineguns drawn.

Re:Interesting (3, Funny)

Daniel_Staal (609844) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777163)

I mean, surely when the Justice Department needs to take a look at Microsoft's paperwork, they send in in an elite squad of ATF agents to rappel down from above, crash through the roof, and storm the building with machineguns drawn.

It's much more fun that way.

Re:Interesting (3, Funny)

dbolger (161340) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777183)

How come when the property of regular citizens is siezed for investigation of a piracy or drug-related crime, you always hear the term "raid."

That's because regular citizens "loot" these materials, while Microsoft "find" tax loopholes ;)

Re:Interesting (5, Insightful)

Tackhead (54550) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777242)

> > How come when the property of regular citizens is siezed for investigation of a piracy or drug-related crime, you always hear the term "raid."
>
>That's because regular citizens "loot" these materials, while Microsoft "find" tax loopholes ;)

I am erotic. You are kinky. They are perverts.
We protect. Our allies enforce. Our enemies oppress.
Congress appropriates. Microsoft lobbies. Citizens steal.

With apologies to Calvin and Hobbes - if you think verbing weirds language, wait'll you try conjugation!

Re:Interesting (0)

menkhaura (103150) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777338)

Where are my mod points when I need them?

Re:Interesting (1)

typical (886006) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777498)

I am erotic. You are kinky. They are perverts.
We protect. Our allies enforce. Our enemies oppress.
Congress appropriates. Microsoft lobbies. Citizens steal.


Well, I'd already marked you as a friend, so I can't do that, but this is a wonderful post.

Re:Interesting (5, Funny)

david.given (6740) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777499)

...if you think verbing weirds language, wait'll you try conjugation!

Now, now, conjugating verbs should be done only between consenting grammatical forms in the privacy of their own paragraph.

Remember: people have sex, and words have gender!

Re:Interesting (2, Insightful)

Overly Critical Guy (663429) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777376)

How come when the property of regular citizens is siezed for investigation of a piracy or drug-related crime, you always hear the term "raid."

A raid is an ability the law provides for. Content creators have just as much rights to protection by the law as "regular citizens" do. It's silly to pretend the Razorback servers were being used for some grand, benign purpose. Everybody including the server owners knows what happens on the E2DK network.

Re:Interesting (3, Funny)

Minwee (522556) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777415)

"How come when the property of regular citizens is siezed for investigation of a piracy or drug-related crime, you always hear the term "raid.""

When they don't call in advance to let you know they're coming, it's a raid. That's what it has always been called.

"I mean, surely when the Justice Department needs to take a look at Microsoft's paperwork, they send in in an elite squad of ATF agents to rappel down from above, crash through the roof, and storm the building with machineguns drawn."

Unfortunately the spell checker in the new version of Office sometimes has trouble with the names "Tuttle" and "Buttle"...

Re:Interesting (1)

xiando (770382) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777463)

I mean, surely when the Justice Department needs to take a look at Microsoft's paperwork, they send in in an elite squad of ATF agents to rappel down from above, crash through the roof, and storm the building with machineguns drawn.

It kind of reminds me of "the borg". The Justice Department do rides and get media attention to repeat one message: "Resistance is Futile". However, we really do have some significant choices. Residence to tyranny is obedience to god.

When it comes to Microsoft, they can not play the "Resistance is Futile" trick like they do on the little guy because Microsoft know the can easily resist by sending a dozen high-paid lawyers into the fight.

Obsessed, me? (1)

secolactico (519805) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777122)

Am I the only one that read the headline Razorback2 Servers Seized and tought, "well, at least pyzor is still alive".

Re:Obsessed, me? (1)

Sporkinum (655143) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777378)

Yes you are.. I thought maybe it had something to do with the University of Arkansas.
http://www.hogwired.com/ [hogwired.com]

Re:Obsessed, me? (1)

Soruk (225361) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777585)

If the Razorback2 servers were designed in such a fashion that no index information was ever written to disc (e.g. all cached in RAM, no swap file/partition) then the seized servers would have lost all information about anything that might have been indexed the moment the power cables were disconnected.

Maybe this is the way for future indexing servers to go?

Who gives a fuck? (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777128)

Emule/Edonkey is dead. Bittorrent is the new king of peer-to-peer, and for good reason. Which is better: maximum download speeds or 1000+ queue lines? Fuck queues and fuck Emule.

Re:Who gives a fuck? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777237)

Emule/Edonkey is dead.

I agree, but lets not put all of our peers in the same basket.

ROFL (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777264)

Just goes to show how clueless you are. I get excellent speeds with emule (often better than the torrents which are leeched to death lately), and often over a thousand sources. Downloading a 2 or 3 movies in a day is not uncommon at all.

BT like NGs has the very latest stuff (telesync and such), but other than that it fucking sucks. To find stuff, you gotta look thru thousands of posts everyday - most of which are total crap and old shit. Quite a waste of time (the torrent search sites hardly help).

On emule, search for ANYTHING - ANYTIME! It WILL be there basically. From old stuff like Louis de funes movies or Terence Hill and Bud Spencer, to TV episodes, to entire discographies zipped, endless GBs of ebooks of all kinds (IT, electronics, woodworking, cooking, etc), magazines, apps, games, anything! You name it, it's there! Anything you could ever want just one search away, no need to go thru websites with tons of crap posted everyday to find anything worth DL'ing. There's got to be about 100 trillion more times as much stuff on ed2k than BT. You'll easily find the very latest build of every app out there on ed2k as soon as it's out, whereas go to any common BT site like TPB, you'll see old crappy versions of everything being posted everyday - it's beyond ridiculous the amount of crap posted everyday (things like nero 6.0 when 6.6.x.x has been out for over a year, and even v7 has been out for ages, old insecure builds of winamp, etc).

In fact, if you had been paying attention lately to news, you'd see it's becoming more popular than ever - more than BT, and for a reason. I couldn't care less if BT died, it may have been a good idea, but the thing sucks. Especially with the latest issues we see (overloaded trackers like TPB, some of the best clients banned, etc). Fuck BT, long live emule!

Re:Who gives a fuck? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777346)

Much much much larger selection through eMule networks(though most my experience is Razorback). If there were a larger variety of torrents, and they didn't die out as quickly, I'd agree.

Arrest Me (4, Insightful)

lbmouse (473316) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777142)

Here's the address of a bank down the street that you can rob if you want:

334 South Main

Now come arrest me.

Re:Arrest Me (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777172)

In the trunk of my car is a vast assortment of drugs. Here's the key, and knock yourself out, kid!

Now come arrest me.

Re:Arrest Me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777357)

Not a valid analogy. The servers contained NO illegal content, just pointers to that content. In your analogy, your car DID contain illegal drugs.

Try Again.

You got a point (1)

denis-The-menace (471988) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777305)

There's a pirate radio station at 107.9FM

there's crack house at 123 thug street

There's a guy selling copied music on the corner of Bank and heron.

You can get music through Kazaa and emule

News flash: Google and Yahoo point to Music and movies, too.

Re:Arrest Me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777420)

"Hmmm, I agree as well this post is shallow and pedantic."

Terrific...Terrific

Re:Arrest Me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777439)

Not quite true. It's more like ...

Here's an address where outcomes of bank robberies may be stored:
123 East Main
Now come arrest me.

Ah... edonkey (1)

daranz (914716) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777146)

The authorities will have to spend 10 days in a line, just to power the servers up.

Seriously, though... ED servers are like a looser version of BT trackers, tracking more files. And the legality of BT trackers is overall just "questionable."

Re:Ah... edonkey (1)

jlseagull (106472) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777433)

"And the legality of BT trackers is overall just "questionable.""

Oh, absolutely. All those people with BT trackers running for the perfectly legal torrents of the Linux ISOs and WoW updates and 3DMark apps should be shut down immediately - you know, for the children.

Idiot.

Re:Ah... edonkey (5, Insightful)

SatanicPuppy (611928) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777552)

It's not questionable. That's like saying the postal service is "questionable" because illegal things make it into the mail. Is the telephone network questionable because you can call criminals, or plan an illegal activity? Are fricking lightwaves questionable because you can see things you're not supposed to see?

No, in fact, it's not questionable. Copyright infringement is illegal, therefore illegal stuff has made it into a perfectly normal information conduit. This is not the conduit's fault, it is the fault of the individuals who are putting the material on there.

End of story.

Other servers (1)

FadedTimes (581715) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777152)

I just see that the other indexing servers availble are just going to raise in popularity and replace the razorbacks postition at the top of the lists.
Also can't they just change the location of the razorbacks?

I thought we settled this with hyperlinking? (3, Insightful)

neo (4625) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777161)

You can link to illegal content. You're pointing to it, you aren't hosting it. It's perfectly legal. What's wrong with these people ^h^h^h^h^h^h lawyers? Is this how the new administration uses it's "terrorist" powers to do what they like when they like to do it?

Perhaps.

But until we the people stand up for our rights, we wont have any.

Re:I thought we settled this with hyperlinking? (1)

Dillusionary (675442) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777283)

Yes. I mean consider the overall threat to profit!! But in other news... http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/21/port.securi ty/index.html [cnn.com]
Does this make you feel even more safer? I mean seriously what is the difference betweet the British running the port and the UAE? Besides the fact that Bush and family have serious ties? And a couple of hijackers for 9/11 came from UAE. In Bushes words "I don't understand what security has to do with it".

Re:I thought we settled this with hyperlinking? (4, Insightful)

amliebsch (724858) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777286)

You can link to illegal content. You're pointing to it, you aren't hosting it. It's perfectly legal.

I'm not an international lawyer or anything, but it occurs to me that the law might be different outside the U.S.

Re:I thought we settled this with hyperlinking? (1)

parodyca (890419) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777354)

>>You can link to illegal content. You're pointing to it, you aren't hosting it.
>>It's perfectly legal.
>
>I'm not an international lawyer or anything, but it occurs to me that the law
>might be different outside the U.S.
>

Darn straight. As the grandparent said. "It's perfectly legal". It's the US that makes it illegal to simply link to content. The rest of the world is more sane. Which again begs the question. How did they justify this raid?

Re:I thought we settled this with hyperlinking? (1)

amliebsch (724858) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777387)

Which again begs the question. How did they justify this raid?

Do they need to justify it? The Fourth Amendment does not apply. Is there a Swiss or Belgian equivalent? What does it require?

Re:I thought we settled this with hyperlinking? (2, Informative)

neo (4625) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777412)

From the article:

Since November of 2004, authorities have closed down all of the major eDonkey servers in the United States, and now, Europe.

Re:I thought we settled this with hyperlinking? (1)

tpgp (48001) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777452)

I'm not an international lawyer or anything, but it occurs to me that the law might be different outside the U.S.

That sound like TERRORIST talk to me ;-)

Re:I thought we settled this with hyperlinking? (1)

seancallaway (751191) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777287)

Do you mean the new Swiss or Belgian administration?

Re:I thought we settled this with hyperlinking? (4, Insightful)

igotmybfg (525391) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777300)

The servers were not in the US. This has nothing to do with the 'current administration'.

OK... it's not in the US. I didn't RTFA. I suck. (1)

neo (4625) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777366)

Mea Culpa.

Re:OK... it's not in the US. I didn't RTFA. I suck (1)

Tweekster (949766) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777385)

You were just too anxious to use the cliche of terrorism and bash Bush... By the way, how many times a day do you feel it is necessary to do that.

Re:I thought we settled this with hyperlinking? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777351)

Hrmmm just pointing to illegal things being a crime by itself eh?

Concerned citizen: Hey, police! Look over there! *points to an old man having a heart attack*

Cop: YOU'RE UNDER ARREST FOR POINTING US OUT TO A WHOREHOUSE

cc: but... I pointed to the old man right next to it, on the floor!

Cop: DON'T YOU BLAME OTHERS FOR YOUR OWN FAUL... oh man, let me help that old man... I'LL TAKE CARE OF YOU LATER.

Re:I thought we settled this with hyperlinking? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777372)

And I can tell all my criminal friends when you're away on holiday and your house is safe break into, right? I'm not breaking in myself, so its ok, right?

"But until we the people stand up for our rights, we wont have any."
And those who abuse their rights don't deserve them. What he have here is the common Slashbot delusion that anything that stops you getting what you want for free is somehow The Man 'oppressing' you, and that by being cheap fucks you are somehow standing up for your rights. In reality, you simply have problems with dealing with the consequences of your actions.

Re:I thought we settled this with hyperlinking? (1)

Overly Critical Guy (663429) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777434)

I know it's super-awesome to use the old "^H" joke and make cracks at the "new administration" since Bush is always wrong here on Slashdot, but next time RTFA. This wasn't in America.

Re:I thought we settled this with hyperlinking? (4, Interesting)

Alarash (746254) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777454)

You can link to illegal content. You're pointing to it, you aren't hosting it. It's perfectly legal. What's wrong with these people.

I don't want to live in a 1984-style society. But comments like this are not fair. Yes it's legal to link to illegal content, sort of. But when the _only_ purpose of a server is to link to illegal content, you have to be retarded to think it's just for research, or study or for the sake that it's not illegal.

This intent of this server's owners is clear: they wanted to exploit a legal loop to provide copyrighted content. They played, they lost. They knew the rules, otherwise they wouldn't have tried to exploit them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for free, legal downloads for a private use. But these people can't say they didn't see this coming, unless they are liars.

MOD PARENT UP.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777486)

Out of 40 posts on this artical, it's one of the only few decent ones...

Re:I thought we settled this with hyperlinking? (4, Funny)

xiando (770382) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777529)

Is this how the new administration uses it's "terrorist" powers to do what they like when they like to do it?

You missed part of history. Please (re-)read the Patriot Act. Jaywalking is now a "terrorist" offense in the USA.

As for Norway, Norwegian "Police intelligence" chief Jørn Holme publicly stated that "If it is not against the law, and can not be prosecuted, then we will take the measures we feel is appropriate". That basically Means that if you do absolutely nothing wrong and you criticize the Norwegian regime then they will torture you and in any way possible try to destroy you. This is relevant because the "Police intelligence" department (PST) started a surveillance, torture and sabotage operation on me after I made documentaries about 911 available on the Internet and posted a lot of information with links to it in Norwegian forums. Here they do not even use the terrorist excuse, they simply say "We do not like you, so we torture you".

Getting my servers shut down like Razorback2 is one thing the Norwegian Gestapo Police can't do that sine they are hosted abroad. So instead they torture with microwave weapons, voice-to-scull mind-control weapons, steal my mail, harass my neighbors and on and on BECAUSE OF RUNNING A DAMN WEBSITE with information that goes against everything the criminal regime would have people believe.

Take my word for it, getting your server(s) shut down is nothing compared to what some governments are willing to do to stop video documentaries to be accessible to the public.

Its not hyperlinking, well sorta ... (1)

dnamaners (770001) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777558)

This has happened before and it will happen again. OK so you can "hyperlink" to content, but this is "so different, its like they use a program, and its not a web browser..." Once the lawyers get their reality distortion fields locked on to the, hand picked and mind numbed, jury any thing can happen. All they need is a few precedents and money can often buy them. Remember, in the US the tomato is legally a vegetable (not a fruit) simple because it pleased someone financially. Reality and reason can often have little place in a courtroom when big dollar civil cases are in play.

Its a basic fact: Like large amounts of mater warps space time, large amounts of money warps peoples perception of reality....

One Word... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777175)

Kad.

eDonkey (4, Funny)

revery (456516) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777226)

Ironically, it is reported that prior to the raid, Swiss authorities had called Razorback2 and requested certain information. The raid was prompted only when they received a response in the form of:

Information requested. You are number 563432 in the queue. Please wait...

Clarification please (1)

Inda (580031) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777239)

I haven't used the eDonkey network in years. One of the reasons I stopped using it was because PeerGaurdian was needed to safely access the network. I'm sure that good old install-a-root-kit Sony ran the top five biggest servers and they were called 'Sonny1', 'Sonny2' etc. I'm sure I read that these were only there as honeypots.

Can anyone comfirm this or did I dream it?

Re:Clarification please (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777430)

Peer guardian does not make it safe to download copyrighted material from the ed2k network although it may help a bit. The risk is low through safety in numbers. Reccently released films and music are probably higher risk than older stuff.

Yes, there are fake servers that filter search results or record users activitys. There are fake razorback servers active now.

I recommend either a) using emule set to not connect to a server and using kad
or b) turn off the options to auto update your server list from servers and clients, clear all the servers, update your server list from OCBMaurice's server list [no-ip.org] ocasionally. The gruk.org server list [gruk.org] went down along with razorback. All the other server lists I know of are out of date
or list fake servers.

Alternativley go back to using binary newsgroups. Less choice than ed2k but much less risk if you just download.

Major blow to piracy. right (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777245)

By shutting down Razorback2, the ease with which pirates can obtain illegal content online will slow dramatically

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaa! suuuure

Nice job Swiss....NOT! (2, Funny)

gasmonso (929871) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777297)

Good to see the Swiss being so neutral on the matter ;)

http://religiousfreaks.com/ [religiousfreaks.com]

Re:Nice job Swiss....NOT! (1)

Tweekster (949766) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777568)

The swiss are not neutral, they simply try to avoid being involved... They were ready for the Germans during WWII. The germans realized it wasnt worth the hassle and went around them.

Interesting bits from TFA (5, Insightful)

NiteShaed (315799) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777329)

Swiss authorities arrested the site's operator at his residence in Switzerland this morning and searched his home.

Searched his home? For what, burned copies of Spider Man 2 and illicit Metallica albums?

By shutting down Razorback2, the ease with which pirates can obtain illegal content online will slow dramatically.

Two comments about this part....

One, I hate it when they make it seem like the main users of these systems are organized crime lords sitting in their pirate CD distribution warehouses. I guess that image is more dramatic than nerds looking for episodes of StarGate Atlantis though.

Two, slow "piracy" down dramatically? Do they actually believe this? Taking down one ed2k server, however large it is, hardly strangles p2p file sharing....

the mpaa uses pirated pdf tools for their pressrel (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777340)

eases....

the mpaa uses pirated pdf tools for their pressreleases

also see

http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19476& postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=75 [slyck.com]

(check the posting of the nxm dude in that thread)

check their pdf at:

http://www.mpaa.org/press_releases/2006_02_21_raze r.pdf [mpaa.org]

(wonder why its named razer.pdf when the site they took down was called razorback2. are they as dumb as shit?)

Hang on a minute... (4, Insightful)

Spad (470073) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777344)

The operators of this eDonkey site chose not to exercise control over files being traded by users which including those containing child pornography, bomb-making instructions and terrorist training videos.

In other news, phone directories choose not to exercise control over people they list, which include paedophiles, bomb-making experts and terrorists.

Re:Hang on a minute... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777503)

Nice try, but your analogy just went "poof!".

A phonebook lists names, not filenames. From Mr. Johnson can you infer pedophile? Now how about boyzcocks.mpg? And of course the obvious, having to knock on Mr. Johnson's door with a search warrant after informant feedback. In contrast, any novice net admin can show you how to watch the network stream for illegal content, and filter it.

Sorry, but if you provide any public service, you must also serve the public interest - which laws are a part. Niiiiiiiice try there Mr. Anarchy!

Wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777352)

Looks like this story is old, where were you slashdot?!

Whiners (1)

HangingChad (677530) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777360)

The legality of such indexing remains questionable, however this has not deterred copyright enforcement actions.

And why should something silly like "legal" get in the way of a good enforcement action? Hey, if the president can wiretap Americans at will without a warrant, then what's the problem with confiscating a few servers and taking a business offline?

Bunch of left wing, tree hugging whiners if you ask me. Next you'll be spouting some dribble about voting in honest elections and representative government. Give those lefties an inch and they'll run this god-fearing nation right into the ground.

Skype=Spyware? (1)

ynohoo (234463) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777364)

Following the link in the story gives me:

Spyware blocked
The requested site is not permitted, because WinProxy has determined that it contains spyware:
Spyware/Malware Sources
If you think that page is mis-classified click here
WinProxy version 6.0 R1c

Bad ScuttleMonkey!

P2P ala Search Engine? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777442)

How is this that much different than a search engine that indexes websites? A search engine might reveal a website that has copyrighted material that can then be downloaded just as Razorback2's servers would.

Why not a community based p2p client/network ? (3, Interesting)

drasfr (219085) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777444)

Why can't we, as an opensource community create a real completely decentralized p2p network? I have been thinking of doing this for a while and do have a lot of ideas for this. I have been online for 14 years and have seen a lot. After all we all know the problems with existing p2p networks from the past years:

- It has to be truly decentralized. No main server. Whatsoever. Except websites to download clients. It has to be able to discover new clients/networks/etc...
- Specs have to be open so anyone can implement a client.
- It has to be secured. Using SSL for example.
- It has to work from behind firewalls.
- It has to be secure enough to differentiate dups and fake files.
- Searches have to be decentralized, but cached, and verified for integrity.
- Of course, it has to be ad-free/spyware-free.
- It has to be built upon security, safety/integrity of the files and users in mind.
- Most of all, it has to be thought off as a legal project with legal uses so it can't be stopped.

I see no reason why this can't be implemented as a community effort? I have been a project manager for years, and for one would be willing to work/coordinate on such a project.

Re:Why not a community based p2p client/network ? (1)

kevin.fowler (915964) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777464)

But if we make it completely open source, an adware-filled copy will appear faster than you can cash your adsense check. And people will be dumb enough to buy it.

Re:Why not a community based p2p client/network ? (3, Insightful)

Tweekster (949766) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777478)

Who is this "we" you are talking about...

in all honesty it would be OTHER people developing, you simply using it, and pretending you are part of something.

Re:Why not a community based p2p client/network ? (2, Interesting)

boxxa (925862) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777515)

The direct connect protocol basically does that and I belive even has SSL support now. Files are checked for integrety by hash values and the central server running the "hub" doesn't host any files or even index. All sharing and searching is done peer-to-peer.

Re:Why not a community based p2p client/network ? (1)

LeonGeeste (917243) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777587)

It's called Shareza (sp?). There's also DC++. They both work great. Try it sometime.

Regrets of sad little men (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14777453)

I'm very interested in psychology, what motivates people to do things, and how they put their actions
into a wider perspective, how they deal with the things they do and their identity. What ever happened to
those South African policemen who murdered black kids, the ones who quietly snuck off into the woods
once apartied was over? What happened to the gaurds at Auswit and Belsen, the minor little nobodies who were
never brought to trial? You don't need to be a monster to run into severe mental problems later in life.
I worry for the pitiful, compliant little yes men, lawyers, corporate dogsbodys and the other oily little
pencils who do their masters bidding so readily. It comes down to this. One day your wife or children are going to ask you about what you did with your life. Or maybe lying on your deathbed overcome with regrets you are going to have to face the music yourself. And there are some people who have to say "I tortured', "I killed", "I lived a lie for another man" But to realise you spent your life raiding servers, destroying work, communications, effort, pleasure etc of other
people for a set of values based on a technology you don't even understand yourself, man that has to be pretty big
hit on someones self esteem (if they are capable of feeling it). Even complete tools like traffic cops have some sense of social value and need for their unpopular activities. These clowns have no redemption whatsoever.

Scary in another context. (5, Insightful)

AntiDragon (930097) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777504)

I find it somewhat worrying. It's an index, right? It's not the infringing content per se, but a list of where such content could be found. Morally, pointing the way to some of this content is wrong...but what law is it breaking?

Look at it another way. Let's say I've learnt of someone who gives away burnt CDs. I don't have any myself but but I'm fully aware of how to contact this guy and get freebies. So in conversation I let other's know too. I'm not forcing anyone to do anything and although it may be immoral not to turn the guy in, I'm fully within my rights to share what I know. I'm basically indexing this guy's contact details for other people to obtain. How they use those details is beyond my control.

Shakey analogy aside, where does protecting copyright end? Shall we go close down a library because a few of the books describe how to perform an illegal act (Shock! Horror! This book describes how someone murdered an innocent! No!)?

Or am I just getting pissed off and ranting? Probably both to be honest...

Hmm (5, Insightful)

slashdotwannabe (938257) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777536)

As long as companies like Adobe justify charging $700 for Photoshop, and rationalize it partially "to make up for the ten people who steal it", I will have no sympathy for companies who lose money to software piracy.

As long as products like iTunes charge a reasonable price for a reasonable product (both reasonables debatable, but the point stands), I will happily plunk down my $.99 cents per song.

In other words, don't make me feel like you're screwing me, and I won't feel like I have to screw you back.

If it was questionable legality (2, Interesting)

MMC Monster (602931) | more than 8 years ago | (#14777560)

If it is of questionable legality, shouldn't it be brought out in court. That way people will know if it is legal or illegal.

While I am totally against frivilous lawsuits, having something brought to court to determine if it is legal is occassionally necessary.

Assuming that things aren't settled on the sidelines, of course.
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