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Neuromancer: The Movie

justin++ posted more than 15 years ago | from the at-last! dept.

Movies 210

Anonymous Coward writes "i don't know if anyone has reported this but there is to be a Neuromancer movie. For those of you who don't know, Neuromancer is a book by William Gibson which basically started the cyberpunk culture. If you're at all interested in computers and/or science fiction, you should read the book and await this movie! NEUROMANCER.ORG --horfus " Neuromancer is one of my favorite books (I need to get Cryptonomicon!), and I'd heard a bit here and there about this before, but I'm glad to see it has a website, and should be out in the not-too-distant future. I'm eager to see how the director handles a Gibsonian world (especially compared to Johnny Mnemonic).

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proper use of ".org" top-level domain (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777774)

Doesn't the content there seem a bit commercial for a ".org"? I don't suppose they intend to donate all book and movie proceeds to charity....

Re:William Gibson is Overrated (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777775)

Although, I've heard that overly descriptive style was in vogue in the 1980s and I guess he just hasn't moved out of it.

Why should he? He was responsible for it.

Another complaint I have with both those books is that the protagonists act very weakly. Cade never really stands up to Armitage and the protagonist in Idoru is even worse.

Kind of like real life, eh? That's the whole foundation of good scifi -- the protagonist is a everyman not a chosen one nor god-like, but yet some how manages to usually come out ahead in the end.

The Matrix causes cyberpunk movie boom ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777776)

The title says it all. I hope they don't commercialize it too far (fat change). Once the movie industry smells money in a certain genre it will be commercialized. There will be commercial cyberpunk movies in the near future, you can count on it.

Gibson was one of my favorites too,

Re:Yawn Yawn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777777)

Greg Egan - although I'm not sure that he or anyone else would want to label it as cyberpunk, a term which is rather worn, frayed and actually sort of roadkill-on-a-warm-day-smelly.

Diaspora, Distress and Permutation City. Read them. And Matt Ruff's Sewer, Gas & Electric is a lot of fun as well. (Mutated sharks and an AI-version of Ayn Rand - it doesn't get much freakier)

Don't miss out on Rudy Rucker's White Light either.

Can't think of anything else right now. Have fun.

Re:proper use of ".org" top-level domain (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777778)

I got news for you bud, .ORG means nothing now. Look at slashdot for example, they aren't exactly non-commercial...

Re:What a load. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777779)

Now now, don't hold back. Tell us what you really think! :)

But seriously, I don't think it has much to do with the "electronic playground full of intrigue and mystery."

Gibson is revered because he is responsible for the revival of scifi. For a good number of long years scifi was stuck in a rut with very few new good stories. Neuromancer and Gibson's short stories which appeared in publications of the time got scifi writers excited about writing again. He showed them that everything hadn't been done -- there are really are new ideas and new ways of telling stories.

Re:proper use of ".org" top-level domain (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777780)

hm, I put the correct URL in the [quote] above, but for some reason it contains a link to slashdot.org instead. The correct URL [networksolutions.com] is http://www.networksolutions.com/help/general/gener al.html#name6

Re:stick it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777781)

Serves you right, your first post was probably as information-free as the one I'm replying to (and this post, as well).

Re:What a load. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777782)

Funny how Gibson never really started Cyberpunk nor are his ideas purely original. Ever Read any
Philip K Dick? or how about Kings' The Running Man? His plots and story ideas are also old rehashes with new twists. Jhonny is still a businesman trafficking illegal goods and his employer stiffs him.

Strange Days (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777783)

Now THAT was a good movie! It was disturbing as heck, too...that graphic murder/rape scene was probably a bit TOO realistic for my tastes, though.

Did you ever think that Strange Days is sort of a lineal descendant of the movie Brainstorm? The concept is the same. It's almost as though they took the technology from Brainstorm and went 20 years into the future.

Metropolis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777784)

Metropolis is a very important movie! for it's time, even now, it breaks a lot of ground.

I'm glad I'm not alone. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777785)

I'm really glad that I'm not alone in thinking Gibson is largely overrated. I think it's more by co-incidence that his work somehow co-incides with today's technology, not by design. I can't see that he's a real visionary, although people always get angry when I dare to question him.

Did you see Gibson's X-Files episode? Utterly wretched pap. Complete garbage.

Re:This had BETTER NOT *SUCK ASS*! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777786)

"Neuromancer is *ABOUT* how technology affects peoples lives. It's about the technology that modern man
creates, it's about the creation of bigger entities through the application of technology."

I disagree... sure it features a lot of technology, and it plays a very important role, but I don't think that's the most important part of the story. It's mainly about the SOCIETY that has grown up in and around that technology. The kind of society that involves the Matrix, AIs, etc... As well as the characters roles in this society. If you haven't read "the Difference Engine" I reccomend that you do! To me, it was classic Gibson - all the essential traits of his writing and plots and characters. But it took place a hundred years ago! Sure the technology played a part, but mainly as an excuse for the main story, and the basis for the rather odd "Big secret" story, that I'm still not sure I understand, but have some theories. What an odd ending... But it hints at an awful lot.

Sorry about the AC.. I'm at work and forget my password...

"especially as compared to Johnny Mnemonic" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777787)

Is Keanu in it?

Which day in September is it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777788)

I forgot.. which day in September is it? I thought I remember seeing a program someone hacked up to display it. ;-)

Older SciFi/Computer books (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777789)

1970's:
Colossus
When Harley was one
Adolescent of P1

MTV? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777790)

That would be cool to put this out by the MTV movie production company that does k-rad stuff like Varsity Blues! Make Cyberspace SEXY and exciting!! Wooo! Lots of drinking and drugs and sex are what cyberpunks are all about baby. This movie can ONLY succeed if they secure Keanu Reeves as the lead character!

Even with Kubrick (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777791)

Does not matter...

BOOK IS TOO LONG TO MAKE GOOD MOVIE FROM.

To make good movie find a story that is only 30 to 40 pages long... 1 page is 1 minute of movie time.
It is easier to pad with better dialog... background... FX... then toss whole parts of a book that someone that was important.

Hunt of Red October: bad for at least this reason.
--Lost Double Climate--
Blade Runner: bad for at least this reason.
--Lost Underlying Plots--
Total Recall: good for at least this reason.
--Showed the director's and Writers view of that future world and the dynamics--

2001: the monolith was to be in Saturn's Orbit, but would take to long of movie time to get there.

jackb

I hate to point this out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777792)

Wasn't there a short story (novella?) by Verner Vinge
that's considered the origin of cyberpunk?

I personally found the entire genre rather over-hyped

Re:took the words right out of my mouth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777793)

Two Faces of Janus

Re:What a load. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777794)

Sure, I've read most PK Dick and all the Bachman (King) books.

What I think you fail to realize is the "cyberpunk" movement was a rebirth in scifi literature. Gibson was the (perhaps unaware) spark. It was his works which brought fire to the minds of the other authors. This was something PKD nor King were able to achieve.

Have you read the archives of Cheap Truth [texas.net] , the newsletter of the then evolving "cyberpunk" movement? The culture, although now dead and discarded like a chrysalis browned and shrivled with age, speaks for itself.

Re:Chris Cunningham (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777795)

you misspelled 'poor'. hope this helps.

Re:William Gibson is Overrated (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777796)

you misspelled 'crescendo'. hope this helps.

Re:If you like Gibson books, avoid Gibson films (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777797)

If you want Trainspotting meets the Matrix try Iain M Banks.

Now there is a man with an imagination.

I'd recommend Excession and Feersum Endjinn.

Come to think of it, his non sci-fi books (written as Iain Banks) are pretty mental as well.

Actually.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777798)

The Lord of the Rings movies (one for each book in the trilogy) are already in preproduction. They're making props, signing actors/actresses, etc. Check out Aint-it-cool or Coming Attractions...

Re:Bad choice of books (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777799)

I love it when no-nothing slashdotters try to tell someone who has shaped a genre that they "don't know shit".

There are so many experts...er, undergrads, in here!

Re:Chris Cunningham (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777800)

Chris Cunningham worked with Stanley Kubrick. That in itself is enough to make you wonder. To the guy that said it will suck: don't be so optimistic! Sheesh, it's people like you that die early from heart attacks. Movies are not intended to be the same as books (otherwise what is the point?) Clearly it is a fairly long ways of from hittting the screen so how can you make comments to that effect?

Not *all* movies have been eroded into the glitzy heroic hollywood norm, in case you haven't noticed.

hmmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777801)

"Gibson is credited with coining the now generic term Cyberspace, and for envisioning both The Internet and Virtual Reality before either existed. "
- http://www.neuromancer.org/gibsonw1.htm

Wow, I must have been dreaming. I could have sworn the internet was around in 1984...

Re:This had BETTER NOT *SUCK ASS*! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777802)

have you actually SEEN any of cunningham's videos? no, i didn't think so. he is the furthest thing from an "MTV music video director wannabe" i can imagine. first of all, few if any of his clips have been big on eMpTV because he has a silly habit of making videos for (gasp!) talented musicians (squarepusher, aphex twin, bjork, autechre...) second of all, if you had seen his stuff you'd know that he's (with the possible exception of jonathon glazer) the most talented guy making videos right now. he has plenty of talent, don't worry about that.

he's never made a feature film before, so we'll see how he does with telling the plot. but at the very least the movie will be fantastic visually.

Keanu Reeves... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777803)

His character in "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" was a little different from the rest...

The director worked with Kubrick (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777833)

I don't know much about the film, but the book rocked, and in Wired a few months back they had a piece on Neuromancer the movie.


Apparently, the guy whose directing it worked with Kubrick.


Also, they said that Bill "William" Gibson :) referred to to this new director as a genius.

And if the matrix isn't green, I'll get mad as hell.

red moose
http://amigang.cjb.net - AmigaNG Central, into the wonderful

Re:Fuck- I hate this world (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777834)

Sorry to hear that. I guess you'll just have to find something else rather than merely knowing about once uncommon works of fiction to make you feel special about yourself. May I suggest a hobby?

Re:proper use of ".org" top-level domain (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777835)

Check this quote from the "Help" portion of Network Solutions' ("Internic") website.

6. What do COM, NET and ORG signify in a Web Address?

COM, NET, and ORG are top-level domains in the hierarchical Domain Name System. These top-level domains are just underneath the "root", which is the start of the hierarchy. Anyone may register Web Addresses in COM, NET, and ORG. In fact, the best way to protect the uniqueness of your online identity and brands is to register or reserve Web Addresses in all of the top-level domains.

7. I've noticed a lot of business Web Addresses end in .COM. Should I secure my Web Addresses in .COM too?

Absolutely. .COM is the Web Address associated with business. From Fortune 500 companies and large corporations to home-based and small operations, over 3 million users worldwide are currently enjoying the benefits of a .COM address.

Re:I'm glad I'm not alone. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777836)

I read Neuromancer when I was 12 ('86) and I remember thinking it was dull as f*ck then. Re-read it again recently and discovered I was very perceptive at that age. As a piece of literature, it was awful. I suppose it might have had some moderately interesting concepts in 1984, but that really depends on your point of reference. When I re-read Neuromancer, I was unconvinced so I had a go at another Gibson book. Big mistake. It was even worse. I can't even remember its title. Which I find a little embarassing actually.

He might be an ideas man, but he certainly isn't a words man.

William Gibson is Overrated (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1777837)

I've read Idoru and Neuromancer and I found them, while having interesting ideas at times, far lacking as novels. They were a pain in the @ss to read because he way overdoes the descriptive language. I mean, how many times did we need to know that one of the guys in Idoru blinked like a maniac? He must have mentioned that 30 times in the book.

Although, I've heard that overly descriptive style was in vogue in the 1980s and I guess he just hasn't moved out of it.

Another complaint I have with both those books is that the protagonists act very weakly. Cade never really stands up to Armitage and the protagonist in Idoru is even worse. They both just go with the flow of action, never really taking control of their lives. The women come across as more vital, but you never really get to know them very deeply.

Also, his books never seem to reach a cresendo. They build, but the very endings are always so lackluster.

This had BETTER NOT *SUCK ASS*! (1)

torpor (458) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777839)

I don't know about you young teenage whippertwerps, but Neuromancer was a pivotal book for me in the 80's.

So this movie had better not suck ass, or it's gonna be really, really, really fucked up.

I'm already freaked though, check this about the director:

One of the hottest young talents to emerge from Britain's music video scene, Chris Cunningham's eye for arresting images and mastery of visual effects have propelled him in three years to the A list of sought after directors. RES magazine says of Cunningham, "...he manages to be humorous, spooky, subversive and unforgettable all in one clip." On "Neuromancer," Cunningham says,"Film shouldn't be about technology, that should be the background. Neuromancer is a thrilling story. It's also about loads of ideas that Gibson had... It's like a detective story where you don't know what's going on. I love things like that, that unfold."

AArrRRGGGH CRAP!!!

Another MTV Music Video director wannabe tries to catapult himself into the movie biz by leaching 'emselves to a culturally pertinent modern work.

"Film shouldn't be about technology"... thats only because nobody in the film industry understands technology well enough to portray it accurately, you MORON!!

Neuromancer is *ABOUT* how technology affects peoples lives. It's about the technology that modern man creates, it's about the creation of bigger entities through the application of technology.

Who wants to place a bet that we get a crappy movie with some lame-ass actor on the up and up, a love story, some violence, a few perfunctory special effects, and a highly modified script that does not resemble the book in any form?

Shit shit shit.

"I love things like that, that unfold."

What the hell sort of lame-ass simplistic hoserspeak is this? Damnit. He comes across as a total dweeb, Mr. Pop Star Video Director, sage of all things interval.

I vote for an Open Source MOVIE!!! Lets get together all the talent we can find and make our own godamn rendition of Neuromancer, TrippinTheRift style...

j.

I'm afraid. (2)

Jamie Zawinski (775) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777841)

It's hard to imagine them doing the book justice, but the videos I've seen by that director ("Come to Daddy", "Windowlicker", and "Frozen") have been pretty cool.

Johnny Mnemonic was horrible (it had its moments, but overall, it was horrible), and it doesn't bode well that this is from the same studio.

I think the movie that most captured the Gibson spirit was Kathryn Bigelow's Strange Days [imdb.com] . And it did so without even using cyberspace, or being set far in the future. Absolutely brilliant movie.

Re:Yawn Yawn (1)

Matthew Weigel (888) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777844)

"Technical Details"?



Hee hee haw haw ho ho ho hahahahahahaha



Ahem. Sorry. That whole deal with visors and what-not... or beliebability -- a mutant Aleut is the most dangerous man in the world? There were plenty of technical errors -- errors where Neal Stephenson bothered to go into exacting detail, only to get the details wrong. *sheesh*



Neal Stephenson spends a lot of time making an interesting world, it seems to me, but William Gibson seemed to have a better grasp of humanity; a better grasp of what's important to the story.



Although I liked both Snow Crash and Neuromancer.

Re:Fuck- I hate this world (1)

Matthew Weigel (888) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777845)

When was Final Fantasy not mainstream? Most of the video gamers I know that played video games when the Nintendo was big remember FFI fondly. If not that, I seem to recall FFIV and FFVI being quite popular. And of course, William Gibson and J.R.R. Tolkien are considered 'must reads' or 'good authors' by most people who bother to read books. Looks like you're more interested in being part of a particular subculture than avoiding the mass market.

Besides, if'ns ya bother to ask me, the person you happen to be is defined not by how you are different from the crowd, or how you are the same. Such caricatures of personality are shallow and only relative.

To be honest, I feel similar twinges when I see all the people posting to /. But then, these things happen; ideas and forums and objects rise and sink in popularity, and the good old days and the bad old days will never be repeated.

Sorry to get so off-topic.

Re:Neuromancer (1)

valis (947) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777846)

Bladerunner? Another movie that pales next to the book it was (not really much) based on.

Johnny Mn. is a great flick IMHO. But taste is personal. Rollins was really great in that though.

Re:This had BETTER NOT *SUCK ASS*! (1)

Phil Gregory (1042) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777848)

"Film shouldn't be about technology"... thats only because nobody in the film industry understands technology well enough to portray it accurately, you MORON!!
Actually, the better SF films and books are not about technology. They're about people. Sure, you need the technology or whatever you're putting in to make it SF, but people are what make the stories interesting. Maybe it's just me, but I'll take a well-developed character (especially a well-developed, believable villan) over a neat technological idea anyday.


--Phil (I ought to re-read Neuromancer. It's been so long since I've done so that I don't remember whether I liked it or not.)

Remember: Gibson had a hand in JM too... (2)

Masem (1171) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777849)

I remember me and my friend being vastly disappointed by Johnny Mnemonic. "I want room
service" was a TERRIBLE LINE!


However, it's hard to believe that bit of tripe
*WAS* from William Gibson's hand (And I am
talking about the screenplay, not the original
work... here [imdb.com] 's the IMDB entry for
JM.


I think at the time of the production of the movie,
there was talk of a Neuromancer movie, but no
definite word, so I have a feeling that Gibson
tried to encorporate a few of the elements that
existed in the other Neuromancer books into
this (as well as his more recent series which the name slips, but the bridge is a definitely pointer to that). It obviously didn't work very well.


My only concern is that Neuromancer is good at two
levels: the idea of cyberspace and what the real
world is like because of it, and the writing style
such that you can read it twice and get two different impressions of what's going on. It's
not that Gibson is vague, but his language is
used so well that the reader's emotions will
read into the story. Sometimes when I read it,
Case is the good guy, sometimes he's an
innocent being dragged along by Wintermute, and sometime's he's the villian, cracking into
3Jane's private life. There is no way in heck
that the movie can convey that; instead, we
*ARE* going to know what finally happens, FOR
SURE, and the mystism of the book will be wrecked.
He might be able to keep some ideas arguable
(For example, this was done with the woman scientist on the plane in the final scene of 12
Monkeys; how exactly was she in "insurance"?)
but I believe that after seeing this movie,
I will never be able to read Case as any of the
3 situations above.

Re:Yawn Yawn (1)

Drey (1420) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777850)

I had problems with "The Diamond Age," mostly that it didn't really seem to have an ending as much as Stephenson just stopped writing. A lot of the nanotech ideas were very cool though. I had some of the same problems with "Snow Crash" -- he just seemed to stop writing.

I personally recommend anything written by Bruce Sterling, especially his short stories collections.

Re:Chris Cunningham (2)

Evangelion (2145) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777856)

IMHO this guy has made the the most disturbing, dark, and creative videos ever seen.

This film should be the best scifi movie to date.

Would you mind telling me how these two statements relate to each other?

Neuromancer is probably going to suck for just this reason - that CC is going to go gonzo on the music video special effects, and leave any sort of character or plot development to the dogs. The whole thing that made Neuromancer's world so compelling were the type of people that inhabited the Sprawl. Just making a cool looking city, and neat-o cyberspace effects, inhabited by cardboard cutouts of characters will make a shitty, disappointing movie. Case was a perfect Anti-Hero - he encountered transcendence, touched divinity, and then went back and got a new liver so he could take more drugs. He simply didn't care about anyone but himself. How has hollywood ever made a protagonist like that? Even Ralph Fiennes from Strange Days was a good guy, albiet an ambiuous one. Try and imagine how hollywood is going to treat the sexual encounter between Molly & Case in the foam-padded 'hotel room'. Do you really think that it's going to be in tune with the character's attitudes, or is it just going to be an excuse for CC to show off Molly's body (probably with more cybernetics than we expect).

Neruomancer was compelling because it was about people who were not heros, who were not hollywoodesque leading men & women - they were moral and physical degenerates that needed to be threatend with thier life and have the capacity to take drugs be cut off in order to get them to do anything.

Do we really think that this is what we're going to see in the movie? Or are we going to see Case as an actual 'hero' who actually cares about what he is doing? And if we, god forbid, do actually see someone as degenerate and apathetic as Case on the screen, is it going to be enjoyable to watch? (See Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas for an example of something that can be enjoyable to read, but not to watch). Neuromancer was an excellent book, because Gibson took (in some people's opinion too much) advantage of the English language to describe everything in a nearly poetic and gritty manner. Is seeing it on the screen going to be at all worthwhile? I doubt it.

This is going to suck.

Rudy Rucker is good, but also Stanislav Lem (1)

richieb (3277) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777858)

I agree about Rudy Rucker. I would also recomend Stanislaw Lem. Although not cyberpunk, his books are certainly thought provoking and much deeper than your average run-of-the-mill SF.

...richie

Re:I'm afraid. (1)

Admiral Mouse (3430) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777861)

Johnny Mnemonic did suck, but it sucked in a good and entertaining way:

- Keanu is just plain FUNNY in the movie ("I want ROOM SERVICE!").

- The Ice-T scene with the dolphin where he says "You got to loop it through Jones" is rather good... actually Ice-T tends to do well in cyber-punk-esque movies. He doesn't take it or himself too seriously.

- Any movie that puts Henry Rollins in birth-control glasses and makes him a geeky doctor is a must-see for me, even if it is bad.

Strange Days was a decent movie... I just couldn't take Juliet Lewis singing PJ Harvey tunes...

----

Re:Neuromancer (1)

rve (4436) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777863)

'The book was better than the film'
The only exception I have ever seen to this rule was Starwars, where the books were crap.
If this is true i sure hope the result will be less like Johnny Mnemonic, and more like Blade Runner.

Re:proper use of ".org" top-level domain (1)

otis wildflower (4889) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777864)

hehe.. NSI's been pimpin' out the .net and .org TLDs for awhile now.... I think there were a couple of /. threads regarding this, but the consensus is that they do it now so folks have to buy 3 flavors of every domain they want to own.

Re:William Gibson is Overrated (1)

castle (6163) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777866)

You miss the point. Some of the sections of writing in Gibsons works [de/e]volve into a poetic expression of the moment. Kind of like a small textual origami peice that bursts a stream of data into you. Damn good stuff.

Overly descriptive? I like the whole John Shirley esque scenery that Gibson seems to draw from. Its good to be immersed in text and shows alot of skill when you are limited to a medium that has no imagery.

Re:old news (1)

enterfornone (7400) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777868)

It was mentioned that the movie was coming soon in the computer game docs (this was a long time ago, back when you could still buy C64 games). I think the old production company (Cabana Boys IIRC) went bust and the rights went back to Gibson. I saw a copy of the screenplay at a SF bookshop once but it was sealed and I was too cheap to buy it.

Re:proper use of ".org" top-level domain (2)

Demona (7994) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777871)

Why, everyone knows that those silly rules about what's appropriate for .com, .org, .net, etc., are only for other people. They are the ones who should be kowtowing to every last stupid rule of netiquette laid down by those fascist ancestors of ours -- not me!

The above is pretty much how everyone on the net feels, based on my own experience. Quite sad, but what do you expect from the net.generation who brought us the September that never ended?

Re:Why it'll be a bad film (2)

kuro5hin (8501) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777872)

no more relevant than 1930's "Metropolis"

Don't dismiss Metropolis's relevance too quickly. Yeah, the technology's sort of silly, but the Big Picture hold up rather well.

And dammit, now you've got the Metropolis theme music stuck in my head. Dah-da... da-da-da da-da... grrrr
----------------------

Yawn Yawn (1)

PD (9577) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777874)

I want to see "Snow Crash" as a movie please. It's the only cyberpunk that I've ever read that doesn't feel like a kiddie book. I'm not interested in cyber-sex, or teenage fantasies. I'm not interested in suspending my disbelief too much.

Can someone recommend other cyberpunk books that are written for people who know something about computers and appreciate plausible technical details?


Chris Cunningham (1)

redbook (10969) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777876)


yeah he's more than likely doing the film but in someways even better is it's likely that Aphex will do the soundtrack.

Believe it when I see it (1)

hwestiii (11787) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777877)

I wouldn't line up for tickets just yet. That site looks way more like pitch than like product. Hollywood is famous for rumors of movies of famous literary properties that have been "in development" for years with nothing but the rumors to show for it. How many times have you heard about a new version of "The Lord of the Rings" being in the works? "Coming soon!!! Gravity's Rainbow: The Mini Series".


I'd say someone is just trying to generate enough buzz to get some real money interested. Now they've just expanded pitch-space into the web.

took the words right out of my mouth (1)

jago (12761) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777879)

Or, from the ends of my fingers at least.
Greg Egan.
The best Sci-fi I've read for a long time.

old news (1)

Bartmoss (16109) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777888)

It's been known that there would be a Neuromancer movie eventually. I just hope they won't fsck up the story like they did with Johnny Mnemonic. Come to think about it they even screwed up the characters in Johnny. Anyway, the neuromancer.org website seems to be pretty uninfomative.. and boring.

Besides, why does a commercial movie reside at a ".org" domain? Eh?

Re:Yawn Yawn (1)

flink (18449) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777897)

Two words: Gene Wolfe
He writes literature.. it's only disguised as SF

Re:Even with Kubrick (1)

flink (18449) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777898)

I agree: This would make a better T.V. mimi-series, although I imagine the acting and/or FX would suffer.
Even the audio book took (I think) 6 hours to tell the condensed version.
I think maybe four hours of file would do it. Alot of those long descriptions would get compressed into set and costumes that you take in in a couple of seconds.

64 meg memory chip (0)

tap (18562) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777899)

I remember in Jr HS one of my friends said something surprising about the specs he had seen for a UNIX machine a university had. You see the computer had 64 megs.......of RAM! hahahaha

You're not laughing??

The surpsise is that you think the person is going to say hard disk space, or say nothing at all because 64 megs is so huge it's obvious that it's the hard disk size. I had a 20MB drive and many of my friends didn't have any. It's probably funnier and more memorable if you were in Jr HS at the time..

Oh well, please moderate this down for being offtopic or flamebait or something. The 64mb memory chip thing just made me remember.

Why it'll be a bad film (1)

Chris Worth (18843) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777900)

I'm no cynic, but this will be a bad film. The book - which was my bible for a year - reflected the paranoid 80's cold-war zeitgeist, not the wonderful world we're moving into as governments slowly become irrelevant. The film can't win: if it's true to the book it'll be no more relevant than 1930's "Metropolis", and if it updates the film with Internet refs it won't do justice to the book.

Either way, I expect effects will substitute for acting, since Hollywood's forgotten how to act. Argh!

KW Jeter? (1)

Badgerman (19207) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777902)

Whenever Cyberpunk is invoked, it always seems folks forget KW Jeters earlier novel "Dr. Adder," which contained all the classic cyberpunk elements.

Re:William Gibson is Overrated (1)

zagmar (20261) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777903)

David Brin had some good comments on this. Too bad the screenwriter and director for "Postman" didn't listen. And as for a writing style being in vogue...Not to compare Gibson to the other people I mention, but aren't we glad that people like Henry James, Fyodor Dostoevsky, Leo Tolstoy, and the like didn't submit to the vagaries of what style was "popular" at the time? Like I said, I don't necessarily think Gibson's work will be with us 100 years from now (whose will?) but at least he has his own style, just like Neal Stephenson does.

And as for protagonists acting weakly, it's not just in sci-fi that this is common. Instead, it is a disease of American literature that creates a superhero that doesn't need any help. The only people in Shakespeare (that I can remember) who were really proactive were the heroes of the history plays, and Shakespeare wrote those to gain political favor. Hamlet was a wimp whose indecision led to his death, blah blah blah. Many protagonists in great works of fiction have been indecisive or inactive.

Re:I'm afraid. (1)

DarkKnight (22515) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777906)

Definitely have to commiserate with you.

I think William Gibson's books are terrific.

However Johnny Mnemonic was awesomely bad. Just no sort of pacing or visual story telling.

We've yet to see New Rose Hotel. Apparently it doesn't have much tech in it. I've heard varying reviews as to how good it is.

I haven't seen alot of this director's work but music videos are not a great foundation for movie work. The sensibilities are very different.

I just have misgivings. Good luck to him anyway.

The Matrix didn't have a great story but it told it well. Certainly went for the coolness factor and landed that big time.

I'd like to see that vision but with more thought.

Re:William Gibson is Overrated (1)

pawlie (23653) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777907)

Gibson is an ideas man. The concepts within Neuromancer were mind-blowing, especially considering he was writing in 1984. However, he really is a very bad writer, and it was quite easily one of the stodgiest, most heavy-going books I've read in ages.

Re:Neuromancer (1)

WNight (23683) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777908)

In almost all cases, whichever came first is better.

Bad choice of books (1)

WNight (23683) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777909)

Gibson's books aren't science-fiction. They're so-so adventure books set in a badly explained, pseudo-science nightmare.

Someone once said "Write what you know." It's obvious that Gibson does NOT follow that advice.

His books would be much better if he hadn't tried to build up a world he didn't understand.

Old script (1)

markm (23762) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777910)

I had the good fortune to get a chance to see a script for Neuromancer when the hype first started, around 1988-1989.

If the script that's being used is the same one I saw, a LOT of stuff from the book was cut out, but the script was still around 170 pages or so -- nearly a 3 hour film.

At that length, studios might be reluctant to make it.

Neuromancer (2)

nufan (26081) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777912)

This could be very cool if they choose to step outside of the hype and make something thats true to Gibson's novel, unlike Johnny Mnemonic, which was a shitty movie altogether. Honestly I don't see how they're gonna bring Case to the big screen and not ruin it, but I sure as hell hope they do... This was my favorite book for a VERY long time..

Say NO to Keanu Reeves... (1)

Ech0 (28768) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777913)

Neuromancer has Long been a favorite of mine. Like most I was highly excited and then hugely disappointed by 'Johnny Mnemonic'; although the soundtrack Rocked. So much so that I found myself defending the brilliance of William Gibson by having people read the shorts of 'The Burning Chrome'.

I'm sure we can all know who to expect to be cast as Case . . . Keanu. Especially on the heels of 'The Matrix'; another in this genre with a kick-ass soundtrack. PLEASE, NO KEANU REEVES. Talk about one dimensional actors. Every one of his characters are EXACTLY THE SAME.

Maybe Neuromancer as a full length animation?

Re:Neuromancer (3)

remande (31154) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777919)

I know the guy who could have pulled it off.

Stanley Kubrick.

Alas.

Re:Chris Cunningham (1)

steven_r (31500) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777921)

A quick web search turned up the following site

[ohiou.edu]
Chris Cunningham Director File

It is a director file on Chris Cunningham. Lots of Pics from his videos and other interesting stuff.

Steve

Re:Chris Cunningham (1)

charlus (31770) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777922)

If he can be bothered, that is.

Re:give Gibson a break, and why he is great (1)

DrRobin (33359) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777928)

For me,the most amazing thing about this book was how Gibson could just nail the nascent spirit of net hacker culture without having a clue about the underlying tech. The book is a wild mix of high-voltage prose poetry, eerily insightful takes on the feeling and attitudes of the subculture, and incredibly dumb takes on the technology involved. I read the book when it first came out in the mid-80's when I was already on the net and I was just stunned at how well this lit guy "got it." I think it will be hard to do justice to this book in the movie both since you will miss the edge of the prose and because we can no longer feel the surprise of the culture that Gibson could see so far ahead of almost anyone else.

Chris Cunningham (1)

Scipher (35125) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777929)

Yes. I heard about this a while ago...
Chris Cunningham was the creative genius who made Aphex's "Come To Daddy", "Windowlicker", Madonna's "frozen" clip, and, my favourite, Autechre's "Second Bad Vilbel".

IMHO this guy has made the the most disturbing, dark, and creative videos ever seen.

This film should be the best scifi movie to date.

Johnny Mnemonic? bah!
good story, extremely pore execution on celluloid.

Scipher

-----------------------------------------(((((

Re:I'm afraid. (1)

Scipher (35125) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777930)

yeah I remember that movie

rather than explore the technology, they concentrated on the base story - a murder mystery.

Re:Believe it when I see it (1)

Hobbex (41473) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777935)

Just so you know it, the current Peter Jackson version of The Lord of the Ring is very real...

See www.theonering.net [theonering.net] .


Re:Neuuromancer...the game (1)

Afrosheen (42464) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777936)

I'm pretty sure it takes the Sophistry chip to get off the desert island. I can't believe I remember that if it's right but I loved that game too. Played it first on my trusty C-64 (complete with digitized Devo intro music), then on a friend's Apple ][GS, then on Amiga. I really, really want some geniuses to remake this for Linux and other powerful pc's with 3d cards and the like. I even went so far as to install an Amiga emulator just to get to play this but alas, the emulation world is fraught with woes. And I forgot what to type at a CLI prompt. :(

Shockwave Rider (1)

georgeha (43752) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777940)

by John Brunner

Of course, Nickie doesn't need any terminal or 'trodes to use cyberspace, he can do it with a touch tone phone.

It's a classic, written in the '70's, and very little of the book takes place in cyberspace, but it's a heck of a ride.

George

Gravity's Rainbow, cyberpunks ancestor (1)

georgeha (43752) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777941)

Ya gotta admit it, heavey paranoia, drugs, sex, technology perverted for evil uses, and a general dystopic air.

Oops, it has too much humor though, except Snow Crash was kind of funny.

George

I named my first Unix box Wintermute (1)

georgeha (43752) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777942)

Back in 1991 I think, a screamer, 486dx66, 2 gig HD, SCO UNIX, I forget the RAM, but I had to pick a name, and Neuromancer was one of my favorite books at the time.

George

Soundtrack (1)

frivolous (46337) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777945)

Any news on who's doing the soundtrack this time round?

The guitarist Robert Fripp (of King Crimson fame) reported a few years back how he started work on a soundtrack in the late eighties. (More info on Fripp and his contemporaries can be found at the web site for his company Discipline Global Mobile [discipline...mobile.com] or at Elephant Talk [elephant-talk.com] - an enthusiast site.)

FYI...

Re:I win!!!!!!!!!!! (1)

Cylix (55374) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777948)

Kewl beans...

I borrowed the book from a friend a few weeks ago...slowly Ive been getting through it...and I have to say IT ROCKS!

I highly recommend it to all slashdotters...just please keep in mind...when the book was written...32 *or was it 64* meg memory chips were probably science fiction ;)

i don't think this is the first time.... (1)

brianof (56469) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777950)

that neuromancer has been in pre-production. i've heard about various contract level negotiations for a movie version of the book since 1991 or so (which is about the time i heard about gibson) but then again this is the internet so.....

the site is pretty much vapor. loads slow even on a t3 - almost as slow as blairwitch.com. looks purty though - index animation is kinda nice although that font makes me think of some satanic version of mash in space.

Neuuromancer...the game (2)

RimRod (57834) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777951)

God, I feel so...NORMAL writing so many serious posts in a row. Shudder.

Anyway, the book was incredible; just about everyone agrees on that. But the computer game waas kickin' as well.

I spent COUNTLESS hours in front of my good old Apple IIc+ (with the processor overclocked to a P450, of course) making my character plod around the city looking for jacks and better decks. Sure, the dude was bright blue and looked like something out of the original Double Dragon, but it was a hell of a game. Cyberspace just looked COLD, but strangely alluring as well. The first time I accidentally discovered an AI hiding beneath the ICE, I nearly freaked out. The rush as I discovered the node for semi-hidden Copenhagen University and managed to hack inside, getting my hands on softwarez two levels above my current arsenal, almost made me feel like a real cyberspace cowboy. Okay, maybe not that far. :)

It took me about 5 years (taking a three year sabbatical) to actually beat the damn thing, and even then it took some minor help from an online walkthrough. A quality book, a quality game.

If they fuck up the movie, I won't be happy.

Re:Neuuromancer...the game (2)

RimRod (57834) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777952)

You may not want to hear this....but that island is basically the last screen in the game before the ending. All you have to do is use some obscure skill chip you picked up somewhere (I forget which one), and then Neuromancer comes back and you see the end sequence. Tough break, man :)

Bring Case to the screen (1)

certron (57841) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777953)


I have no idea how they are going to do this in a real life movie actor kind of way. I haven't seen The Matrix enough to decide whether the same sort of nutso effects could be used to do Neuromancer justice on the screen, but almost immediatly after reading the book for the second time about 2 years ago, I thought that the only possible way (or at least a very good way) to bring Neuromancer to life would be to make the entire movie as an anime. (why do I expect to be flamed for that last one?)

After watching a few movies like Ghost in the Shell, I was pretty sure that if done properly the animation medium would be ideal for this movie. I think I would be against live action for this one, but then it might not meet with commercial success (and then become a cult film! hey, not so bad...) as The Matrix did. I don't know. I would steer towards doing it really well with animation, but if they manage to do it, I hope they do it damn well. This is a story that deserves to be told properly. Special FX technical wizardry isn't that necessarry, look at Tron, the FX worked. (I personally think that cyberspace might look like it was being drawn by a huge color Vectrex, but that's just me. Also might require someone lugging laser projection equiptment to augment the actual film... hmm. ok, bad idea.)

All I can hope is that they do this story right, because whether you liked the book or not, it was important, and it deserves better treatment than to be turned into another Johnny Mn.

certron

Dear Mr. Gibson... (1)

Jonny Royale (62364) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777957)

If there was ever a wish list for this film, here's my $.02:

Remember that good science fiction is fiction first, science second. It's all well and good that we can manipulate reality on film, but don't sacrifice the story for the effects. The really good books of science fiction rely more on the charaters, their experiences, reactions, and emotions to tell the story than they do on gizmos and gear.
I can think of a few examples here, but I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.

Re:This had BETTER NOT *SUCK ASS*! (1)

gnarphlager (62988) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777958)

Chris Cunningham might not be an eloquent person. Hell, he's a dork. I won't argue with that. But have you seen his work with Aphex Twin? Brilliant! Disturbing. If I could pick anyone alive to direct this film, it would be him.

Of course, I don't have the vested interest in this that everyone else does. I grew up on Tolkien, and so far the films have been terrible (we'll wait on the new one). I grew up on the Crow, and that movie pissed me off, so I know how apprehensive everyone is/seems to be. But I'm excited about this. Not because of the movie. Because I'd like to see what Cunningham can do outside of a 4 (or 12) minute video. My two cents anyway ;-)

Chris Cunningham (2)

AndersW (64204) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777960)

Chris Cunningham is definitely a master of
visuals as anyone who has seen the Aphex Twin
video can tell you. Scary stuff.

I guess it just remains to be seen how he copes
with realising the story, it's really a matter of
how he has perceived the book, but it sounds
promising.

I also hope he's clever enough not to make any of
the mistakes of `Johnny Mnemonic', the use of
`Alternative' actors maybe one of the worst (Ice
T, Henry Rollins, Dolph Lundgren? Give me a
break...).

Anders.



____

Bill Gibson vs. Al Gore (1)

DanaL (66515) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777961)

Isn't neuromancer.org being a little pretentious when it suggests that Gibson 'envisioned the Internet before it even existed'? I mean, there was no www.pepsi.com in '84 but the internet was already around.

Looks like he's going to have to duke it out with Al Gore to decide who really invented the Internet.



Gibson's opinion (1)

oh (68589) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777963)

But remember that Gibson also worked on the screen play for Johny Mnemonic.

I saw an interview with him in which he was saying how wonderful everything was with that movie. No offence to the guy, but he does have an interest in getting people to see it. He's hardly going to get another movie deal if he starts complaining about creative control.

Re:Yawn Yawn (1)

spawn/nowait (68591) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777964)

Unforetunately I do not know of many - computer centered SF books - which are particularly accurate in predicting future forms. However I would suggest:-

Diamond Age - Neal Stephenson
Synners - Pat Cadigan
Islands in the Net - Bruce Sterling

Other HARD SF novels I would recommend - i.e. those with GOOD science as a basis for extrapolation.

Dragons Egg - Robert L Forward
Rocheworld - Robert L Forward
Mission of Gravity - Hal Clement

and of course the early classics such as I Robot by Isaac Asimov ( the laws of robotics ).

Hope this helps

Re:Neuuromancer...the game (1)

kettle12 (69247) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777965)

5 Years of that God-awful soundtrack... I salute you! I ended up getting stuck on a desert island and finally giving up altogether, extremely frustrating M (duh duh de duh duh duh de duh)

Star Wars (1)

Rabbins (70965) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777968)

That is because the movie script was written before the books.
The idea that Lucas had all 6 episodes written was a publicity stunt essentially.

Re:Yawn Yawn (1)

captshad (72316) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777975)

He's not a great writer, though I don't know of any sci fi writers that are. But Rudy Rucker is,
IMHO, the most orginal and thought-provoking sci
fi author out there. 'Spactime Donuts' is considered by many to be the original cyberpunk novel. His best books are the ones written in the 70's and early 80's, and they tend not to stay in print. If you can find 'Spacetime Donuts','The 57th Franz Kafka','Software', or 'White Light' at your library, I think that you'll enjoy them. They tend to be a little more light-hearted than anything your usual sci fi, and Rucker will occasionaly give you work out in higher math and physics. Read only if you want something different!

Shad Gregory

Re:I win!!!!!!!!!!! (1)

spage (73271) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777976)

Uh, a 1MB chip was science fiction back then.

I did PC support at the 1984 Olympics. In 1983 and early 1984, for several THOUSAND dollars, you could
equip your IBM PC with 640KB (yes, kilobytes) of RAM. We had one Lotus 1-2-3 app that needed a lot of memory, so we equipped a PC with half a dozen full-length cards stuffed with chips that were 128KB of memory each, and then used special software to access all 768KB.

As for hard disk storage, the IBM XT with built-in 10MB hard drive was just appearing. So you wrote your dBase II and Basic apps to run on one floppy and store data on another floppy in the other floppy drive.

Human Resources had a 10MB hard drive. It was so valuable that they used ArcServe and thick cables to share its vast contents with several PC's at once.

Digital Resources CP/M was still prevalent in 1983, but in 1984 MSoft's MS-DOS (hastily repackaged operating system from another company -- Pacific Systems?)was quickly becoming the standard O/S for the PC. Mice were a specialized add-on for graphic artists -- the 4-color EGA screen was pretty rare.

So when the Apple Mac came out, it was so far ahead it was hard to compute for most users. (Then again the earlier Apple Lisa was in some ways even more advanced!) VisiOn for Windows was another WIMP system. But in an average 256KB (or 128KB for the Mac) of memory, it was hard to run more than one real program, so few users could see the point of mousing or copying and pasting. And MSoft pre-announced a downright weird-looking Windows, with tiled non-overlapping windows and menus at the bottom.

I could go on...

give Gibson a break, and why he is great (3)

spage (73271) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777977)

William Gibson wrote Neuromancer in 1984 and he freely admits he knew nothing about computers at the time. Put those facts together and his conception of cyberspace is a fantastic achievement. The Sprawl series of books are packed with ideas, some of which are dated, but many are still to come true. Much of the VR in Neal Stephenson's "Snow Crash" is anticipated in a single off-hand remark in "Count Zero" about the mercenary Jaylene Slide doing all her socializing in cyberspace as a neon avatar.

As for the style, back in 1984 nearly all SF was the all-knowing scientists in a great future. Gibson and the other so-called cyberpunk writers (collected in Bruce Sterling's "Mirrorshaded") rebelled against that. These days everyone expects the future to be grimy and street-wise and vaguely dystopian, but that's because of the impact of the book (and of course "Blade Runner"). Gibson's quote "The street finds its own uses for technology" has become a cliche, but he wrote it.

As for the lack of action, surely the ringing phones from wintermute made the hair on the back of your neck stand on end? Or try out the last brief quote here [slip.net]

I maintain the complete bibliography [slip.net] , so I'm biased, but the Nebula, Hugo, Philip K. Dick, Seiun, and Ditmar awards for Neuromancer mean something.

Gibson's later work is weak, but for most readers Burning Chrome - Neuromancer - Count Zero - Mona Lisa Overdrive is a sensational ride.

As for the movie, who knows. Neuromancer is a pretty resilient story and worked well as an audiobook and graphic novel, but there's a lot of ways they could screw it up.

If you like Gibson books, avoid Gibson films (1)

meehawl (73285) | more than 15 years ago | (#1777978)

Even Abel Ferrara and some cool actors couldn't rescue Gibson's "New Rose Hotel".

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0133122

I'm beginning to see a pattern here. Doesn't bode well for the Neuromancer movie.

Now, a movie of Jeff Noon's "Vurt", now that's an entirely different proposition. Kind of Trainspotting-meets-The Matrix.
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