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HD DVD to Screw Early HDTV Adopters

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the they-wouldn't-have-it-any-other-way dept.

629

orionware writes "Apparently the folks who designed the Advanced Access Content System (AACS)for the new HD DVD formats have decided to stick it to the early HDTV adopters. If your set used the older component video, expect to watch your new HD DVD at a quarter of the resolutions. To thwart piracy of course." From the article: "AACS says the new players won't output a full-HD signal from their component-video connections, since those jacks are analog instead of digital and thus have no copy protection. The 'down-rezzed' signals will be limited to a resolution of 960 x 540 pixels -- exactly one-quarter the 1,920 x 1,080 pixels that you'll get through the copy-protected digital connectors on the players. The potentially huge problem with this strategy is that the only HD inputs on a lot of older HDTVs are component video."

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629 comments

HDTV adopters screwed by HD-disc rules (5, Insightful)

Freexe (717562) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792480)

That should read
"HDTV adopters screwed by HD-disc rules"

Because I can't see any advantage to the end user by any of these rules.

Will it be easier to make backups - No
Will it be easier to play it on all the devices around your house - No
Will i beable to skip the 2-30 minutes of copyright ads + trailers to watch a movie - No
Will the image quality be higher - Only if you have the right hardware (the confusing HD standard means up and down sampling will reduce the quality even more if you HDTV isn't the right native resolution)
Will you beable to sell the disks on to friends/second hand market - No (At least from my understanding so correct me if i'm wrong)
Will it reduce the cost as no one will be able to pirate anymore - No, This will be hacked within a few months of it coming out the same way CSS was

"If I pirate will my life be easier than going the legitimate route" should be the one question that these media content owners need to answer. And they fail over and over again

Will I boycott HD - Yes

Re:HDTV adopters screwed by HD-disc rules (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14792514)

Anything that lets me laugh even more at my friends with their $5k television sets is good news (yes i am jealous)

Re:HDTV adopters screwed by HD-disc rules (3, Insightful)

jcr (53032) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792549)

Will you beable to sell the disks on to friends/second hand market - No (At least from my understanding so correct me if i'm wrong)

The RIAA doesn't have the power to overrule the "first-sale" doctrine. You can resell an HD-DVD if you want, and it's none of their business.

-jcr

Re:HDTV adopters screwed by HD-disc rules (3, Insightful)

Criterion (51515) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792643)

Sell it all you want. If it's locked to your player, it's no good to anyone that buys it from you.

Re:HDTV adopters screwed by HD-disc rules (4, Insightful)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792715)

If it's locked to your player, it's no good to anyone that buys it from you.

That sounds like a great way to kill sales. I mean, how many consumers have more than one TV in their home? (And by extension, more than one DVD player?) Not to mention the number of people who loan their discs out to friends and family. If consumers suddenly find themselves unable to move their disc around (especially if they purchase a new TV/player), they're not going to buy. They'll tell the industry "screw you" and go get their content some other way. Unfortunately for the industry, if there's no legal method for getting HD content, they'll just get it illegally over the 'net until there is.

So the industry had better think long and hard about how much they really want to be pushing consumers.

Re:HDTV adopters screwed by HD-disc rules (1)

general_re (8883) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792735)

The RIAA doesn't have the power to overrule the "first-sale" doctrine.

They can't use the law to prevent you from reselling it, but they're perfectly within their rights to make disks that are only useful to the first owner. If they can come up with a disk that self-destructs when it leaves your house, the first-sale doctrine hardly impedes them from doing so.

Overrule, or just make it impossible? (1)

michaeltoe (651785) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792774)

I need to protect my product from piracy, and these are the only measures I can think of to do that. While I recognize your right to first sale is important, so is my right to selling my product. You lose, I win. Thank you, come again.

Re:HDTV adopters screwed by HD-disc rules (1)

BVis (267028) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792790)

Doesn't matter if they don't technically have the power. Technically they don't have the right to search files on your computer without explicit permission, but they do anyway (because you've made those files available to anyone who asks.) Whether they can make a case or not has no bearing on their decision to sue; the suit is designed to bully the defendant into settling through the threat of hideously expensive litigation.

IANAL, but I'd like to see the above concept tested in court (i.e. does making files available via p2p applications mean that you forfeit any right to contest the validity of a search for the purpose of discovery?) Seems to me that you should be able to refuse the examination of your computer and the files contained thereon the same way you can refuse a search of your person or property without a court order.

Anyone involved with the RIAA/MPAA suits want to illuminate this for me?

Re:HDTV adopters screwed by HD-disc rules (1)

George Tirebuyer (825426) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792560)

These things are DOA. The whole HDTV thing is a disaster. Confusing and changing standards are going to piss off the mainstream consumer. It's bad enough the old TV won't work but now the new ones only work sometimes. Jeez!

This game is already over (1)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792758)

The whole HDTV thing is a disaster. Confusing and changing standards are going to piss off the mainstream consumer.

Perhaps, but screwed early adopters = dead technology anyway. Look at the history of the consumer technology market, and I defy anyone to find me a major exception.

It might be inconvenient for mainstream consumers too, but since their "expert" friends and family (the guys who invested silly money early to play with the new toys) will all be telling them to steer well clear, I doubt the tech will get far enough for that to matter.

However, let's be fair. It is very unlikely that HDTV itself will fail; the quality of HDTV images is genuinely much better than what we have now, and the connectivity is all there for anyone who chooses to use it. Those who do, in a consumer-friendly way, will profit. Just as with on-line music sales, there is a ripe market with a lot of cash to throw around. As soon as someone's smart enough to fill the niche, they'll make a lot of money, and it's just a matter of time before that happens whatever any particular media cartel wants.

Re:HDTV adopters screwed by HD-disc rules (4, Interesting)

H3lldr0p (40304) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792611)

Here's the thing that I don't get about attempts to control content like these: Doesn't this just smell ripe for a class-action lawsuit? Seriously I can see a group of pissed off owners of these devices crying "Fraud" over the fact that the player automatically downgrades the signal to their televisions. Throw a few smart lawyers into the mix and you've got a huge mess on your hands. Years of bad PR at the very least. They are also running the risk of having either the courts or the legislature or both of stepping in, and despite all of the money thrown at the political groups, having them create new laws which prevent them from doing or requiring the hardware manufactures to do this sort of stupid sh*t. So why risk it? Are the profits so great that they'll risk the entire business? Isn't anybody in these companies trying to think of a smarter way?

Granted they could always hope for the sweet sort of deal that NetFlicks got, where nothing really happens to the companies in question, but last time I checked that deal was starting to go down in flames...

Re:HDTV adopters screwed by HD-disc rules (1)

Mantaman (948891) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792710)

Considering that the people who where the early adopters of this new technology are gona be rich lawyers and business men/women etc :)

Re:HDTV adopters screwed by HD-disc rules (4, Insightful)

williamhb (758070) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792655)

"If I pirate will my life be easier than going the legitimate route" should be the one question that these media content owners need to answer. And they fail over and over again
At first glance it seems to me it's not just "will my life be easier" - with these silly rules if you're the owner of an older HD-TV then pirate copies (without the protection and consequent 'down-rezzing' of the component video) could potentially give you 4 times the resolution of what you'd get from the legit version. Way to give the pirates a competitive advantage on quality as well as price, guys!

Because digital really implies security (1)

192939495969798999 (58312) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792503)

Yeah, we all know how well having a digital stream helps protect content. Most piracy is conducted over the internet, which is digital media? OK. I don't think this is going to stop, slow down, or hamper piracy in any way. It's a way to get more HDTV's sold to the people who were already suckers enough to buy them the first time (videophiles don't count, they always buy the latest thing, I'm talking about regular Joe's who now will hate HD).
Good job, everyone.

Re:Because digital really implies security (2, Insightful)

cnettel (836611) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792660)

As the only supported digital interfaces will imply encryption over the wire, I would say that it will be more secure.

Re:Because digital really implies security (1)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792667)

Most piracy is conducted over the internet, which is digital media? OK. I don't think this is going to stop, slow down, or hamper piracy in any way.

The intended effect is to have a secure pathway from the media right up to your eyeballs. Adding protection like this attempts to defeat any would-be crackers who intend to steal the media by recording the digital stream rather than trying to break the DRM on the disk.

Of course, if HD DVD is going to screw over early HDTV owners, I can see only one market response: A small digital to composite converter that you plug in between the player and the TV. It would securly decode the data into a high-res composite stream, then send that to the television. Voila! We're back to sqaure one.

I wonder when content owners are going to realize that encryption is not the answer? Encryption requires two way trust. (The sender and the receiver.) It's intended to keep out parties ancillary to the communications, not lock out the receiver from making copies.

Geniuses. All of them. (*rolls eyes*)

umm.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14792505)

I must have an old hdtv.... what else is there OTHER than component video?!?

(this is honestly not a troll... but I am posting as AC out of embarassment!!)

Re:umm.... (2, Informative)

calibanDNS (32250) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792592)

There's HDMI [wikipedia.org] and DVI [wikipedia.org]. You have to be careful with DVI though, because not all DVI inputs are HDCP [wikipedia.org] compliant.

Re:umm.... (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792646)

Not all HDMI inputs are HDCP compliant either.

Re:umm.... (1)

calibanDNS (32250) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792711)

Thanks for pointing that out! When researching televisions, I don't recall coming across any that had HDMI ports that didn't claim to be HDCP-compliant, so I just assumed (wrongly) that no one was bothering to make a TV with HDMI that wasn't HDCP-compliant. What's the point really? Non-HDCP-compliant DVI ports make sense, if you're going to use the DVI port for non-protected content (like output from a computer).

Re:umm.... (1)

bigman2003 (671309) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792644)

HDMI...

I bought a 'bridging' HDTV a few years ago. It is a 32" 4:3 CRT HD set, and it has served me well. I'm bummed that the new HD DVD players will require HDMI because my set is component only. But I didn't expect this one to last too long, I knew it was just a bridge.

But, I bought it for only $1,000, and it has been serving up HDTV from my cable box and Xbox for a few years now, so I can't complain too much.

Buying a 4:3 set was a choice I made that I am still happy with. Since most of the content in the past few years has been standard format, my TV displayed it without any problem. It goes wide-screen when it gets an HD signal- with black bars on the top and bottom. Since the size constraint was based on the horizontal size of my cabinet, this was the best choice. (Rather than buying a widescreen set that would have black bars on the left and right 90% of the time)

I knew at the time I would eventually be buying something else, but it kept me from buying an over-priced plasma set. When I do buy one in another year, the price will be brought way down, and the quality will be improved.

the new stuff has a zillion-pin "advanced" connect (1)

swschrad (312009) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792669)

and I assume the signal voltage levels are different than one volt, since the connector is digital with status leads

a whole new eBay business model (4, Insightful)

supabeast! (84658) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792506)

Someone is going to make a lot of money selling Chinese digital-to-component adapters for all these HDTV owners - at least if HDTV actually goes anywhere.

Re:a whole new eBay business model (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14792719)

That will probably be illegal do to DMCA. But who cares, everything is illegal due to DMCA these days.

Slashdot lags! (0, Offtopic)

samjam (256347) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792509)

Is it just me, or is slashdot lagging digg.com by 3 or 4 days now?

Sam

Re:Slashdot lags! (1)

ivan256 (17499) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792607)

Or is digg lagging the rest of the world by like 7 or 8 months now?

Seriously, all my friends with HDTVs and DVI monitors have been bitching about this for months.

Re:Slashdot lags! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14792619)

I'm so fucking sick of hearing about digg.com -- This is a discussion site, and the articles on here are not supposed to be 0 minute news. Here, we are more concerned with opinions, facts, and discourse.

Go back to digg, so you can say FRIST PSOT!!!!11!!one

Re:Slashdot lags! (2, Funny)

calbanese (169547) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792663)

Here, we are more concerned with opinions, facts, and discourse.

When did this happen????

Re:Slashdot lags! (1)

CynicalGuy (866115) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792787)

This is a discussion site, and the articles on here are not supposed to be 0 minute news. Here, we are more concerned with opinions, facts, and discourse.

If you read either site for the comments and discussion, you're a retard.

HD DVD? (1)

minus_273 (174041) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792512)

well, blu ray FTW...

Re:HD DVD? (1)

iainl (136759) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792583)

Tough luck - BluRay has this as well.

What neither the article nor the summary mention, however, is that AACS makes this blocking optional. So you really can blame the studio if the disc you buy won't transmit HD over component, because some other discs will allow you.

Furthermore, if it's anything like the similar restrictions on DVD players transmitting upscaled images over component, there are bound to be handset hacks or at least modchips on the market in fairly short order to get around the problem.

Who to complain to? (1)

dpbsmith (263124) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792513)

Any suggestions?

Doesn't the FCC have anything say in this? Aren't they supposed to be in charge of standards?

Wasn't it supposed to be a national priority to encourage people to adopt HDTV?

Re:Who to complain to? (1)

cmossell (892174) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792741)

The national priority is for all broadcast TV stations to start boradcasting in HD, which because of being digital, actually uses less radio spectrum that analog technologies. This frees up lots of very valuable spectrum. The first cut of the spectum is going to be designated for emergency communication including police, fire, etc. The next chunk of the spectrum is going to be auctioned off by the FCC, for many millions (if not billions) of dollars.

Re:Who to complain to? (1)

minus_273 (174041) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792813)

Wasn't it supposed to be a national priority to encourage people to adopt HDTV?


You do know what we are moving to HDTV right? it has nothing to do with TV. The government needs the spectrum used by analog TV for emergency services. They've been rumbling about this for years and 9/11 was just a catalyst.

I'm glad... (0)

wingman358 (912560) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792516)

Well, I'm glad I'm a Sony fanboy. Blu-Ray ftw!

Re:I'm glad... (1)

Criterion (51515) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792672)

Blu-ray doesn't help matters any, and in some ways is worse.

Re:I'm glad... (1)

MrPeavs (890124) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792822)

There have been talks with blu-ray having a active database that can block known illegal or problematic devices.

Haven't heard HD-DVD doing anything like that, as far as copy protection and security, HD-DVD has the edge.

Sony should've just helped with HD-DVD, we all know how Sony's "new". "advanced" and "superior" formats turn out.

No problem (1)

TheBogie (941620) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792526)

The potentially huge problem with this strategy is that the only HD inputs on a lot of older HDTVs are component video

This is actually a benefit for companies selling TV's. Now anyone with an "older" HDTV will have to go out and buy a new one. More profit!

That's assuming a "standard" is ever reached. (1)

Ritz_Just_Ritz (883997) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792531)

The old boy network is too busy arguing amongst themselves over which "standard" will reap them the most rewards to spend any real time considering the effect of these decisions on mere consumers...the people who are supposed to lap this stuff up at their local electronics store and video rental outlet....

I think I'll pass.

Low res pirated movies (5, Insightful)

SeekerDarksteel (896422) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792535)

Ok, so they're going to limit the analog outputs to 1/4th the normal resolution. And what the hell do they think that's going to solve? Most of the people downloading movies are not overly concerned about the quality. Hell, a lot of copies are made by hand held cameras in movie theaters, with plenty of shaky video and noise disturbances from the crowd. Besides, the vast majority of people aren't going to want to download a 20GB file to watch a movie when they can download a 700MB one.

Congratulations, you have prevented nothing.

Re:Low res pirated movies (4, Insightful)

Jeff Carr (684298) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792706)

Congratulations, you have prevented nothing. Not true, they've prevented me from buying both HD-DVD and an HDTV.

Re:Low res pirated movies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14792737)

It's a good point, actually. They've mandated the hardware equivalent of DVD-Shrink [wikipedia.org]. What a time-saver! Yeah, that'll really stop people from copying. :-)

Re:Low res pirated movies (1)

Zerbs (898056) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792825)

960x540 HD is still higher resolution than 720x480 DVD, people will still copy them if they want to

Yet another example of the continuing trend... (2, Insightful)

AdolChristin (694990) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792538)

Companies always seem ready to screw early adopters. Which doesn't make any sense to me, since the early adopters are typically the source of the largest margins in retail spaces. They absolutely have to have it as soon as possible and are willing to pay a premium... only to get burned for it later. It seems to me that you'd want to nurture your early adopters rather than screw them.

as usual, will wait for hack (5, Insightful)

onezan (908534) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792544)

As an early adopter, i am among the screwed.

I'm not too worried though, i will wait. Wait for the second generation of cheaper devices to flow from the secondary players in the DVD player markets (the "no-names"). these most assuredly will have the "secret back-door" keycodes to enable full HD over component.

what a miss (1)

tehwebguy (860335) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792566)

most of you seem to be missing this: have any of you ever seen a pirate version of a video that had a res as high as the limited hd res?

Re:what a miss (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14792760)

Does a 1080p rip (Raw MPEG2 stream) of LOTR count?

High-Res rips are pretty common. If you know where to look.

As an OS/2 and Sega Saturn user.... (1)

tsmithnj (738472) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792572)

I kind of expected this.

(reviewing notes on Palm I now)

Yup. I won't be buying a newfangled TV until I absolutely have to.

HD in the US is about new revenue streams (5, Insightful)

poopie (35416) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792677)

PT Barnum would be so proud of what has happened with HD. We've got the hardware producers *and* the government rolling over to the content producers with everyone intent on finding more ways to make the consumers pay more and more often. It's not about cheaper, newer, or better technology.

"See the egress!" of people *not* buying new TVs as they walk out of their electronics store frustrated by the HD cartel.

Why do I get the feeling that there will be an HD 2.0? I think I'll stick with my old TV and if it dies, I'll buy someone elses' old TV.

Betamax anyone?

Ironic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14792698)

Ironic you meantion the Saturn. It's HDTV compatible. Although the only game to use HDTV was a special version of Bomberman used a promo demonstration... It was never released.

The More Difficult to Use... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14792573)

the less the incentive to update the old DVD library. People are used to a certain level of performance and portability; I don't know how quickly they will adopt these new technologies if they are overburdened by DRM crap. Particularly so long as the format is still up in the air.

Do they want people to adopt a new format? (1)

BartulaPrime (744634) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792584)

Seriously, you would think that they would realize they are facing an uphill battle to convert everyone over to a new format. It seems the goal would be to make it as backward-compatible as possible to win over the fence-sitters (me) and early adopters of then-costly HDTVs, or in my case, a really expensive plasma TV that I sure as hell won't be replacing anytime soon.

Re:Do they want people to adopt a new format? (1)

Criterion (51515) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792728)

"a really expensive plasma TV that I sure as hell won't be replacing anytime soon"

Umm, you do know that the life span of a plasma tv isn't anywhere near that of crt's, right? You're not gonna be keeping the same tv for 10's of years anymore. What I've heard is that 5 is about the useful life of those things.

humm (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14792585)

Screw? Where do I sign up!

Ehh... (1)

Afecks (899057) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792587)

Movie pirates watch grainy hand-held movies with babies crying and people coughing and walking in front of the screen while enjoying the recorded-in-a-coffee-can audio. I think 960x540 would be a step up for most of them.

Just another fine example of how honest paying customers get screwed over while those that break the law get a better deal.

Class Action (1)

JWW (79176) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792608)

I would love to see owners of old HDTVs file class action suits against the vendors of their HDTVs. They were promised higher resolutions, they lead the way to making the costs go down for the people who bought HDTV later. They spend more money and went through more trouble to get HDTV resolutions, but now their getting screwed. And do you really believe that when they were sold the set they were told "sure, your set will do 1080i, but when HD-DVDs come out we won't let you have that resolution.

Specifically I think they should sue companies that made their HDTVs that also signed on to this "Mickey Mouse" copy protection.

The other point is that the millions of HDTV owners that will get screwed over by this have absolutely NO reason to buy and HD-DVD player, ever.

Everytime I hear stories like this I always can envision the future press release that says something like "HD-DVD players not selling well". Well, lets see, you severly limit you product for a large number of your intended customers and its a suprise when they don't buy it? How many people would really buy cars limited to going just the speed limit? Ideally the argument could be made that drivers shouldn't be allowed to break the law. But how many people would actually buy these cars? Thats right absolutely no one.

Re:Class Action (1)

cryfreedomlove (929828) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792709)

What do you think the specific damage is that should be claimed in the class action? Who is doing the damaging? Did that defendant really make binding promises to you?

I think the early adopters knew what they were doing and the risks they were taking.

Re:Class Action (1)

The_Mr_Flibble (738358) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792712)

Well in the next few weeks I'm planning on buying a video projector that has (yes you guessed it) composite input.
Which means that when I want to watch any hd content I have to use a pirated copy. Sorry I mean an illegally reformated copy of their hd content.
And this is supposed to deter copyright infringement how exactly ?
Seems like they are trying to encourage it from these tactics.

the disc controls the downrezing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14792610)

It's not just HD-DVD, Blue-Ray players will almost certainly do this, and the HD-TiVo that was show at CES in January does this as well. To be fair to Toshiba, the player doesn't force the down-rezing. The _disc_ tells the player to downrez for component. So it's up to the studios to descide if they want to use this feature. http://blog.scifi.com/tech/archives/toshiba_demos_ hd_dvd_confirms_downrez_issue.html [scifi.com]

Will HD-DVD be far superior to upconvereted DVDs? (1)

Fonzinator (939336) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792612)

I was not an early adopter, but have a component only HDTV set. To boot, I have a DVD player that upconverts DVDs to near 1080i resolution via component. So, will HD-DVD be SO much better than my current upconverting player that I'll wish I had a more current-gen HDTV? I doubt it. Upconverted DVDs look fabulous to me.

Incompatible formats once again (2, Interesting)

brain1 (699194) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792620)

This is shaping up to make the VHS vs Beta wars look like a border skirmish. The real losers are going to be the consumers that suddenly find their beloved $2500 HDTV and $300 HD-DVD they just got has been suddenly obsoleted by some jerk that thinks the entire buying public is a bunch of pirates. Their attitude is that they need all these restrictions just to keep US - the public - honest? Go jump in a lake!

IMHO, the MPAA, RIAA, et. al, are going to make the consumer public so mad that they essentially put themselves out of business. What then? Add more DRM and restrictions to products claiming their plummeting sales are due piracy?

I'll just pass on HDTV until these jerks finally self-destruct and we can get rid of them.

-dh

Do they really think movie pirates care ... (1)

Ihlosi (895663) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792621)

... if their pirated movie "only" has a resolution of 900x500-something ?

Re:Do they really think movie pirates care ... (1)

tuffy (10202) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792795)

... if their pirated movie "only" has a resolution of 900x500-something ?

Due to either AACS being quickly cracked or the broken-by-design HDCP, I expect the pirates will have full resolution movies up for downloading in no time. Thus, those who go the copyright infringement route will have a considerably easier time getting movies to play than those who pay for them.

This is news? (1)

MalHavoc (590724) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792625)

How is this news? It's been known for a long time that the new digital formats will only work over HDMI or DVI with HDCP. Why do you think that any new player that supports the SACD or DVD-Audio formats only provides access to the high resolution multichannel format via 5.1 (or now 7.1) analogue outputs? It's still not possible to take advantage of a digital processor's portentially superior decoding abilities and bass management - you have to rely on whatever's been included in the player itself. Besides the format war, this is one of the other big reasons why these formats never caught on - to listen to them, you'd need a processor or a receiver with 5.1 or 7.1 analogue inputs. Standard RCA, Coax, or Toslink users need not apply. I know that my argument is based on audio formats, but I think anyone looking at HD-DVD or BluRay as a format would have seen the writing on the wall for some time now.

 

What about this... (1)

acoustix (123925) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792631)

Can I use a DVI-to-Component video or HDMI-to-Component adapter to get around this? Just wondering since I didn't RTFA.

-Nick

Re:What about this... (1)

MalHavoc (590724) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792673)

Nope. That analogue component cable won't be able to pass along the HDCP and you'll lose the resolution. A dedicated video switcher will also have to drop the resolution, or probably face big lawsuits.

mod dOwn (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14792645)

if you mov3 a table

Thus they continue to shoot their toes off (2, Insightful)

A nonymous Coward (7548) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792647)

They keep finding more toes to shoot off, antagonizing their customers one segment at a time, hoping the remaining customers will be oblivious. Bang at the early adopters, bang at the mass market, bang at the computer users, bang bang bang ... pretty soon they won't have a leg to stand on.

What really matters (1)

slowbad (714725) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792653)

won't output a full-HD signal from their component-video connections, since those jacks are analog instead of digital

I just polled the 5-10 people within shouting distance of my desk, whether they "care about people who
spent $6000-$9000 on stupid television sets." It's unanimous: 1 loud NO, with the remainder abstaining.

--
This vote was not scientific, and reflects only the opinions of those
users who have chosen to participate. The results cannot be assumed to
represent the opinions of users in general, nor the public as a whole.
(This vote has not been certified by Diebold, Danaher, Sequoia or AVS)

Very very old news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14792658)

The HDCP requirement is very old news. Upsampling DVD players have the same requirement so it isn't a surpise that the HD media would have it. Equipment manufacturers are probably pretty happy since most early adopters will probably buy new HDTVs.

this when change when.... (1)

revery (456516) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792678)

HD DVD to Screw Early HDTV Adopters

This will only change when the majority of consumers stop respond to these kind of actions with the expected, "Thank you sir, may I please have another."

If HD fails in the marketplace, and I mean utterly fails , the MPAA might start to get the idea.

Re:this when change when.... (1)

The_Mr_Flibble (738358) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792738)

No they wont. They will blame the pirates and sue anyone that has the older hardware that can't display the new content because they are obviously pirates for not buying in on this new content. Or pay someone off to make it illegal to own/watch the old content.

Re:this when change when.... (1)

revery (456516) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792781)

I don't know. If you lose enough money, you get replaced. At some point, someone will get put in charge who has a new sort of vision for content distribution.

Question about possible class action (3, Interesting)

stilleon (601857) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792694)

My mom purchased a Sony HDTV two years ago (I told her to wait because of unresolved issues like these, but did she listen????). It only has HD component ins as HDMI and so on were not even spoken about. I see that Sony is part of the AACS defining group. Well, they advertised that their HDTV was the future of TV (obviously not), and that the component inputs would be capable of accepting HD from future products (that's what the sales guy said). Well, they sold a product that they are now crippling its abilities. Is it possible for early adopters to sue to get compensated for now having to buy a new set just to use HD-DVD or Blu-Ray?

this is already happening with upscanning dvd (2, Interesting)

enrico_suave (179651) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792707)

This type of a-hole (analog hole) closing tom foolery is already in place with "upscanning" HDTV players designed to take the 480p and output it at 720p/1080i/etc. You get 720p via digital (so called protected) outputs, but get crap (low rez) out via analog component. In effect the DVD upscaling device you bought is intentionally crippled out of the box.

The end game doesn't look good for fair use, and the ability to move content around freely between devices :(

E.

Time to Boycott?? (1)

olddotter (638430) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792725)

I personally liked the tone of this blog posting. [writersblocklive.com]

I really do get tired of companies that think consumers are there for them to screw over, instead of understanding that to be successful they need to be selling what consumers want.

This is news? - We've known this forever! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14792734)

Basically since HDCP start showing up on the first sets years ago, we knew this was going to happen with future generations of STB's and DVD formats.

Here is one of may solutions:

http://www.engadget.com/2005/07/21/the-clicker-hdc ps-shiny-red-button/ [engadget.com]

It's not just HD DVD but BluRay too! (2, Informative)

timbob_com (512241) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792736)

Blu Ray will also suffer this down-conversion fate. This makes my TV useless for any new technology as I am sure all future technologies will implement this restriction. Let's see, average disc cost = $20 for HD DVD I would probably buy 100 - 150 the first year alone. Hollywood loses out on $2000 - $3000 from me, the first year alone. http://www.inaniloquent.com/PermaLink.aspx?guid=47 5bef13-f44d-4f70-b922-9c07d8ea632f [inaniloquent.com]

They just saved me $10,000 (1)

jaygatsby27 (894445) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792739)

I won't have to worry about replacing my huge dvd collection like I did when dvd first came out.

If at first you don't succeed... (3, Interesting)

CinciTech (953424) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792754)

"...try the exact same thing again." Or maybe more appropriately was Ben Franklin's quote: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

So they release one copy protection after another, spending gobs of money that translates to increased cost to the end user, and ultimately they're all cracked in less time than it took to develop them. Why not try a different approach for a change, instead of having the audacity to think that eventually you can come up with an unbreakable copy protection?

The bottom line, (imo), is that some people will always pirate, and some will always pay the asking price. Forget about these two groups, and focus on the people in the middle who would buy your product if you simply made an offer they'd be interested in paying for. Piracy is about getting something for less than what you could get it for off the store shelf, and unless you cut costs and lower DVD prices, these people are going to copy/burn/download/bootleg your product unless you make the retail package, (being more than just price) more appealing than the piracy route.

As it stands, what I see here is that you can legitimately buy the DVD, and play it at reduced resolution on your early HDTV, or you can wait for the copy protection to be broken and get a pirated copy that plays at full quality. Where's the incentive for buying your product now??

I'll foil them all! (1)

bluemeep (669505) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792777)

These disks are far too easy for big companies to tamper with. I'm sick of hearing about anti-piracy lockouts, rootkits and hoojiggers like that. Why should I put up with digital encryption and conversions?

I'll invent a new format! A simple one! A fantastic format that's still as portable as a DVD! Perhaps...yes...I'll put still frames of images on a reel. And it will spin, making the sequential images appear to move! To the drawing table!

does component capture card exist?? (1)

amigabill (146897) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792789)

Like I commented to a news.com story a few days ago, why are they so paranoid about component or DVI outputs? I don't know of any capture cards for these connections, so it just seems like these guys are making up fictional things to be afraid of in the really real world. I just don't get it... The news.com story specified DVI as a connection the movie industry was very concerned about for piracy reasons, but I've never heard of a DVI capture card.

I'd looked for a component input capture card a while back as I've got a few laserdiscs I'd like to convert to DVD in the best quality I can. (There's no DVD for sale of these versions of some films, the unmangled original Star Wars set for example) I didn't find one, so I don't see any reason for these shennanigans in the HD industry.

Where's my broom? I call shennanigans on these retards.

Bettter for piracy (1)

Libor Vanek (248963) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792791)

This will be better for piracy. Legal HD-DVD will run on 1/4 of the pirated version! Jeez, I just sooo want to spent my money for legal movies... :(((

Who cares... (1)

BritneySP2 (870776) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792816)

I own an HDTV and I shudder every time I see those ugly compression artifacts that often make the 1080i image look more like 100x100 pixels. I'd prefer a smooth, artifact-free, full-screen video signal at 640x480 to the crappy-looking 1080.

News is a rehash.. months old. (1)

Criterion (51515) | more than 8 years ago | (#14792817)

This is a rehash of all the hoopla that went around months ago when talk started about HDMI monitors. Just to recap, yes, your going to need a tv with the correct connections to watch your HD-DVD player (and your blu-ray), component will either downsample (television) *or* possibly not even show a picture (computer monitor). Your computer will also require a HDMI spec vid card in addition to HDMI monitor to watch protected hi-def content.

I know I went all Banzi about this shit back then. I really don't understand what they are trying to do other than piss people off. Are they trying to curb piracy? Well, duh. Will it work? Not in this lifetime. Why can't they see this? My theory is that it's just a way to prevent casual user piracy (cause we all know that everything will be available in full hi-def glory in all the "usual" places). Problem with it is, the access and usage is getting so screwed that it's actually going to become a roadblock to adoption.
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