Canada's CD Tax Out of Hand? 599
CRIA Watcher writes "The Canadian Copyright Board has just announced that it is bringing back the tax on blank CDs, called the private copying levy, in 2007. Michael Geist demonstrates how the tax has created a huge distortion in the retail price of blank media on his blog with as much as 70 percent of the purchase price now heading directly to the music industry."
In related news... (Score:4, Funny)
Sales of blank CDs in Detroit area soar! Details at eleven!
Fair Trade.... (Score:2)
Re:Fair Trade.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Just take lots of blank CDs with you when you go to pick up your drugs.
Re:In related news... (Score:2)
That's alright... I'll just pay the tax, thanks.
Unfair (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Unfair (Score:2)
Re:Unfair (Score:2)
Re:Unfair (Score:2)
Re:Unfair (Score:2, Informative)
This tax has nothing to do with illegal copies (i.e. burning an ISO you just downloaded). That is a separate issue.
Re:Unfair (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Unfair (Score:5, Informative)
--
80. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the act of reproducing all or any substantial part of
(a) a musical work embodied in a sound recording,
(b) a performer's performance of a musical work embodied in a sound recording, or
(c) a sound recording in which a musical work, or a performer's performance of a musical work, is embodied
onto an audio recording medium for the private use of the person who makes the copy does not constitute an infringement of the copyright in the musical work, the performer's performance or the sound recording.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply if the act described in that subsection is done for the purpose of doing any of the following in relation to any of the things referred to in paragraphs (1)(a) to (c):
(a) selling or renting out, or by way of trade exposing or offering for sale or rental;
(b) distributing, whether or not for the purpose of trade;
(c) communicating to the public by telecommunication; or
(d) performing, or causing to be performed, in public.
--
(emphasis mine)
Re:Unfair (Score:4, Interesting)
The audio CD-Rs have a bit set somewhere that audio equipment looks at before deciding if they'll record on this media. So if you have cd writer in your stereo, it probably will only work with audio CD-Rs. Of course, the audio CD-Rs cost more, and some equipment can be hacked to not require this bit to be set, or you can swap it with a data CD-R at the right time and things will work, etc.
The cd writer in your computer, on the other hand, has no such restriction, since it's meant to store data. Of course, you can also burn audio onto your data CD-R on your computer, and people do do this.
As for the law changing in Canada, I have no idea. In the US, I know that audio CD-Rs include a tax that goes to the RIAA or the artists or somebody, and data CD-Rs do not. More on the DAT tax here [brouhaha.com]. (It's called the DAT tax because it was originally written for DAT (4mm tapes) and is probably the #1 reason why we don't have consumer DAT audio drives in our stereos now.)
In any event, when I'm at Frys and I see somebody pick up a batch of Audio CD-Rs, I'll often ask them if they're going to burn them on a stereo component or a computer, and 95% of the time, the answer is `computer'. And then I tell them that they don't need the expensive audio CD-Rs -- the data ones will work just as well.
The DAT tax does have one good benefit though. From the article above --
Of course, this page was written pre-DMCA. I've no idea if the law has changed since.Re:Unfair (Score:2)
Re:Unfair (Score:2)
Of course, even better still would be to make it legal to copy for personal use and not impose the levy.
Re:Unfair (Score:2)
Re:Unfair (Score:2, Informative)
Who uses blank CDs? (Score:2)
I do not use CDs as anything other than a distribution medium for buying music at this stage. I listen to most music on my MP3 player or occasionally a computer. This seems to be what most people do.
Re:Who uses blank CDs? (Score:2)
Re:Who uses blank CDs? (Score:2)
Re:Who uses blank CDs? (Score:2)
Just because YOU don't use something does not mean that EVERYONE does not need it.
Re:Who uses blank CDs? (Score:4, Interesting)
I play in a small punkrock bands. We produce everything "D.I.Y." which means we burn all our CDs on blank CDs and sell them for 3$.
We don't care about the CRIA. We don't care about their crap and we don't want to be on their labels. It seems they'll still have a cut off of every CDs we produce... awesome.
Re:Unfair (Score:2)
Re:Unfair (Score:2)
Re:Unfair (Score:2)
Re:Unfair (Score:4, Interesting)
Does anyone know who to contact in order to get our views voiced PROPERLY?
Re:Unfair (Score:4, Insightful)
I paid a levy on my ipod. As long as I own that Ipod, I intend to use it to listen to music I downloaded without paying for.
Re:Unfair (Score:4, Insightful)
Sounds good until, they charge 100% of the price, then 150%, then 200%, etc etc etc.
Once they have their foot in the door, it will be next to impossible to get them out. This only serves to set a dangerous precident, that is nothing but a slippery slope for consumers. It's afforable now, how about in 5 years? I'll guess they'll blame it on inflation, and you wont even remember why it costs 5x what it costs today.
Re:Unfair (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Unfair (Score:4, Interesting)
re: Cheap CD's (Score:2)
Re: Cheap CD's (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, but as an 'importer' I'm liable for the levy on imported CDs. Excuse me for a second, the doorbell's ringing...
Re: Cheap CD's (Score:2)
LOL. I am sure there is something for importer fee's...though how is the gov't supposed to know that the UPS package you are getting is CDs and not say a CD case holder?
I was, however, mainly making a joke referring to all the spam mail we get about Canadian drug companies..I guess it was not written well enough
Canadian could always use... (Score:3, Funny)
I still don't understand this (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I still don't understand this (Score:2)
Thanks for being on their side.
So, now the tax will go up another 50%.
This is proof that 2 rights don't make a left, but three do.
The government has no right or reason to insure or protect the profit of a privately owned business with tax or insu
Re:I still don't understand this (Score:2)
You're paying to remove the songs. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:You're paying to remove the songs. (Score:2)
Market Distortion... (Score:2)
Video at 11.
Re:Market Distortion... (Score:2)
But there is no reason to believe that any tax causes the market price of something to more accuratly reflect supply and demand, or consumption. Taxes are pretty much just a system for a government (or powerful lobby, such as the music industry, operating through the government) to get revenue... a politician isn't go
ROTFLMAO (Score:3, Funny)
LOL, that sounds peculiar indeed, Canada's music industry now gets rich from blank media instead of music content
Re:ROTFLMAO (Score:2)
Re:ROTFLMAO (Score:4, Funny)
Obviously you do not appreciate the melodies of Avril Lavigne, the emotional maturity and unpretentiousness of Alanis Morrisette, the economy of expression of the Bare Naked Ladies, the understated phrasing of Céline Dion, or the raw production style of David Foster.
Tear off your ears, Sir! You are not using them, anyway.
Trade for Prescription Drugs (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Trade for Prescription Drugs (Score:2)
Re:Trade for Prescription Drugs (Score:2)
Clarify (Score:4, Insightful)
Since this tax goes to the recording industry to apparently make up for "lost sales due to copyright infringement"....where can independant Canadian artists who are not affiliated with the labels sign up to receive their cut of this tax? I mean...people use these blank CDs for things other than the music of the labels...
And if this tax applies to ALL CDRs, rather than just the music CDRs that nobody buys in America...how does a Canadian citizen dispute the tax on something they've never used (assuming of course they don't burn music to CDs?
Re:Clarify (Score:5, Insightful)
You don't. I don't get food stamps, a welfare check, my kids don't go to public schools (I don't have any), but I pay taxes that go into these programs. My real estate tax goes straight to the school district. I don't use that service.
The majority of my taxes go towards causes, programs, or institutions whose services I neither need nor want, and a handful to which I have serious ethical and/or moral objections. But there's no recourse. If I say all of this and want my taxes lowered or changed so I can keep more of my own money, I'm called greedy. When somebody else wants my money for some purpose, they're just needy.
And politicians arrange the transfer. Welcome aboard, Canada!
Re:Clarify (Score:2)
Don't forget that parents who send their kids to private schools can deduct the tuition and get their tax money back, since they're "relieving the burden on the public system" by sending their kids to private school.
But those of us who choose not to have kids at all, we can't
MOD PARENT UP (Score:2)
Re:Clarify (Score:2)
The programs you cite are elements of a public welfare system available to all citizens equally based on need. The argument of the grandparent and other posters is that the CD-R tax unfairly impacts the taxed (e.g. anyone not copying music industry copyrighted content) given its stated motives. Further, the distribution of the tax's proceeds is discriminatory against
Can sign up with record label ... (Score:2)
At one of the record labels.
Re:Clarify (Score:2)
Sorr
Re:Clarify (Score:2)
In all seriousness, I like these taxes. I don't have a lot of extra money to pay for music, so after paying this tax I can feel good about downloading music. The Canadian courts ruled years ago that the recording industry can't sue people who've paid the tax, so it makes me happy knowing that I'm a law-abiding citizen.
And if the artis
Re:Clarify (Score:2)
I think you are under the impression that artists see any of this money. This year was the first [canada.com] that any artist has seen any of the collected levy and less than half of what was collected was distributed.
Re:Clarify (Score:4, Informative)
SOCAN (the Canadian equivalent of ASCAP/BMI) handles royalty collection and distribution for Canadian music authors. If you're a Canadian composer, songwriter, or lyricist, you must do this to get royalties:
1. Apply for membership with SOCAN
2. Register your copyrighted works
3. Sit back and wait
You don't have to be owned by a record label to get your royalties. Also, SOCAN has arrangements with other performing rights organizations around the world, so if your music is played in the USA, or Germany, or Japan or whatnot, you'll still get royalty payments from SOCAN but on the accounting it states that the money is coming from that territory.
Royalties are only paid to the "writers" and the "publishing company". The "writers" are composed of the songwriter (who does the music) and the lyricist (who writes the words). A songwriter and lyricist can be the same person. Usually it gets split 25% songwriter/25% lyricist/50% publisher respectively, which means that if a composer wants to get more money, they start their own publishing company.
There are simple yet comprehensive materials available on SOCAN's site. Quick links:
*SOCAN Overview for Music Creators and Publishers [socan.ca]
*How your music makes money [socan.ca]
*Private Copying Royalties update [socan.ca]
Up until recently, the money collected from the media levy has sat in SOCAN's accounts while writers and publishing companies fought viciously to get it all for themselves. Seems the writers have won; the "private copying royalties" now go 100% to writers by default. This of course doesn't stop publishing contracts from specifying that lots of money goes to the publisher...
By the way, I finished the audio engineer training, said "I don't want to do this as a job" and have just opened a computer repair shop. I'll be selling those taxed CD blanks soon enough...
Price Distonrtion? (Score:2)
I have seen no noticeable impact of any levy whatsoever. Blank CDs are still dirt cheap.
Besides, with car audio and portable players all moving toward using memory-based media nowadays anyway, and DVDs offering vastly more storeage for the same price, CDs
Re:21 cents per CD-R/CD-RW (Score:2)
Re:Price Distonrtion? (Score:2)
Use one problem to solve another (Score:5, Funny)
Commerce, its not national anymore (Score:2)
Its easy. Just do what we Americans do for prescription drugs. We buy them from Canada because they are about 1/2 the price.
Why can't Canadians buy their CDs from places that have lower taxes?
I drive to a neighboring county to buy cigarettes because they have cheaper taxes. I buy things online to escape state sales tax. I buy my prescription drugs from Canada.
Many retailers advertise and/or strategically place their storefronts right across borders for this reason.
Re:Commerce, its not national anymore (Score:2)
I seriously hope that people do avoid these taxes this way. Perhaps it will give our governments a clue about collecting taxes. All these sales/use/luxury/sin taxes are a PITA for businesses to collect and annoying for consumers to pay. If our governments would consolidate and simplify the tax collection procedures to make it easier on businesses and limit the beauracracy it would be better
Re:Commerce, its not national anymore (Score:3, Interesting)
The State of Minnesota asks that its employees purchase their prescription drugs from Canada for savings. That's great and all if Customs would stop seizing them [startribune.com].
I love being told by my Governor to break Federal Law. Awesome.
Re:Commerce, its not national anymore (Score:2)
Re:Commerce, its not national anymore (Score:3, Interesting)
In the US, the Federal law regarding chemicals that people put in their bodies is just wrong.
Many of the "FDA" approved drugs are horrible, expensive, have side effects up to and including death, etc.
In 5 years, I will be free from having to take FDA approved drugs on a daily basis. The medication that I am on now gives me dry heaves, makes me insane at times, gives me headaches, disturbs my sleep, gives me vertigo to the point that I have almost died in a car accident, and being that it is a relatively ne
Re:Commerce, its not national anymore (Score:2)
Put a one character text file on them and then.... (Score:2)
Been bitten before (Score:2)
As for the CD tax -- it stinks. I use a dozen or so CDs (and DVDs) for project backups, photos, home movies, and so on. I no longer use a tape-based VCR; It's much nicer to burn timeshifted TV shows to DVD/CD with DivX compression. Why should I have to pay a levy on that?!
Then they'll convieniently forget (Score:3, Insightful)
As long as they.... (Score:2)
My greatest worry is if they somehow manage to bring back the horrid mp3 player tax. That tax was the worst one. They were going to run into mp3 players with more tax in the price then the mp3 player was worth as the storage
Proceeds will go to porn industry (Score:2)
They will, but the proceeds will go to the porn industry not the record industry.
If I'm paying anyway... (Score:5, Interesting)
I got mad enough before to start dreaming up "piracy booths", where you could burn cds from a "collection" - for free, of course, with your own hands. My understanding is this would be completely legal..
No. (Score:2)
Oh yes, and it's perfectly legal to walk into a library with a laptop and snarf their entire collection into mp3s. If they have any music worth snarfing.
Verbatim copy of the post (Score:3, Informative)
The Copyright Board of Canada last week released its proposed tariff for 2007 for the private copying levy. The numbers remain unchanged: 21 cents per CD-R. As prices have dropped, however, the levy now frequently comprises a significant percentage of the retail price. Consider the purchase of 100 blank Maxell CDs. Future Shop retails the 100 CDs for $69.99. The breakdown of this sale is $48.99 for the CDs and $21.00 for the levy (even worse is a current Future Shop deal of 200 blank CD-Rs from HP, which retails for $59.99. The levy alone on this sale is $42.00 (200 CDs x 21 cents/CD) which leaves the consumers paying $17.99 for the CDs and $42.00 for the levy).
This results in a huge distortion in retail pricing when compared to the U.S. market which does not have a levy system. For example, the same Maxell CDs retail for US$34.99 at CompUSA. When you add in the exchange differential, the Canadian cost is just over $40.00. Obviously the price is slightly lower in the US even without the levy (35 cents per CD vs. 40 cents per CD). With the levy, the price increases by another 50 percent.
Given how little Canadians get for their money (the private copying right doesn't cover copying CDs to Apple iPods) is it any wonder that countries such as Australia are considering allowing for such private copying without a levy scheme? The solution in Canada is obvious: either ensure that the levy covers the full panoply of private copying as is the case in France or drop the levy altogether and institute a fair use user right.
The authour is on crack. (Score:3, Informative)
Consider the purchase of 100 blank Maxell CDs. Future Shop retails the 100 CDs for $69.99. The breakdown of this sale is $48.99 for the CDs and $21.00 for the levy (even worse is a current Future Shop deal of 200 blank CD-Rs from HP, which retails for $59.99. The levy alone on this sale is $42.00 (200 CDs x 21 cents/CD) which leaves the consumers paying $17.99 for the CDs and $42.00 for the levy).
For example, the same Maxell CDs retail for US$34.99 at CompUSA. When you add in the exchange differential, th
The mods, and you, are on crack (Score:3, Interesting)
The levy is here, it's real, and it's by far the biggest cost of blank CDs in Canada.
It's also a load.
I used to be mad about it (Score:2)
I was quite unhappy about the tax when it was first implemented, but this tax prevents (or should) RIAA style tactics in Canada. Yeah, sure it's another tax, but CD blanks are not that expensive. (Cheap at twice the price, eh?)
It is unfortunate that Geist's site is unreachable. I'd've liked to have RTFA before posting, but hey, this is /.
Pssssst.... wanna trade? (Score:2)
Representative Democracy? (Score:2)
Artists aren't getting the Money (Score:2)
The other problem with this argument, is that the collection of funds is being used to protect Canadian artists. Frankly, there's only two or three Canadian singers (contemporary)
Taxes being abused and misused? Never! (Score:2)
1) Company A claims/lies/stretches-the-truth that X hurts their business.
2) Company A gets a tax passed on X that benefits A.
3) PROFIT! And lots of it.
I would love to hear a reason why company A should be responsible about the tax; make sure all those "hurt" by X benefit (when A can reap it all)
Use DVDs for Data in Canada (Score:2)
tax on blank cds = fee for legal music copying? (Score:2)
Tax Me...I'm Canadian... (Score:2)
This is so lame... (Score:2)
Considering that 10% of my CD burning involves music, it's nice to know that such a large portion of the levy is going to the music industry. I can imagine a lot of Canucks leeching even more music just to "stick it to the man."
Site Down (Score:2)
Anybody got a mirror site?
It's not nearly as bad as it sounds (Score:2, Informative)
More importantly, this levy goes hand-in-hand with the philosophy not of assumed guilt, but of "fair use" that includes sharing. Yes, sharing your tunes is perfectly legal in Canada, as it's simply assumed that people will continue to make copies and mixed CDs for friends, etc. in the new digital world.
Good! (Score:2)
What About Data Storage? (Score:2, Insightful)
Doesn't Really Cover Non-Canuck Artists (Score:2, Insightful)
CPCC Royalty Distribution Info [cpcc.ca]
I would think that if we're paying that much on CD's it should go to every organization possible instead of a select few.
Someone should push for this improvement (Score:3, Interesting)
These taxes essentially make copying music to canadian-purchased blank CD media legal.
I'm sure this will take a huge team of lawyers and a lot of public outcry to make it happen, but one way or the other, the music industry will have to give something up -- they can't have both a 'tax' and pursue additional civil penaties against individuals at the same time. If a person who downloaded music can show that he did so in order to utilize his rights granted to him by purchasing blank media from Canada, then I doubt there's much more damage that can be claimed. If this idea holds up, I predict a huge increase in the sale of blank CD media from Canada.
For those in Canada who wish to object... (Score:4, Informative)
Speaking as somebody who has dealt with proposals in the public sector before, when you object, make certain that you make a reasoned argument. Point out the flaws in the assumptions behind the levy (such as the fact that not everybody is going to use the media they're taxing for copying music, etc.), and how it makes the levy unfair. Whatever you do, don't make statements about good and evil, or corruption - it's a surefire way to get ignored. Just point out the flaws in the proposal, give concrete examples if you can when you do, and give your name, city, and province/territory.
Re:Assumed Guilt (Score:3, Insightful)
It has been said a thousand times that the revenue losses for piracy are basically made up. Pulled out of thin air. I know, because I was a teenager once. I went to college and lived among other students. The basic fact is that people buy the things that are important to them, and anyone who "pirated" music or games valued their collections so little t
Re:Assumed Guilt (Score:2, Offtopic)
1) The poor are more likely to be in jail than the wealthy.
2) A poor person is more likely to be given a jail sentence (or at least, a longer sentence) than a wealthy person who has committed a similar crime.
Wealth can buy better legal representation, simple as that. Now, to touch on race again, a larger percentation of the black population in the US is porr than in the white population. Therefore, a black person is more likely
Re:Assumed Guilt (Score:2)
And remember... NO DISINTERGRATIONS!
Re:Dumb Canadians... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, in the same country where we went to war on questionable intelligence and are still there fighting for who the fuck knows what reason. Or in the same country where e-voting fraud could occur and no one could give a shit. Or in the same country where the President authorized wiretaps on American citizens and no one batted an eye. Or perhaps in the same "free" country where protesters are told where they can and cannot protest and are removed for exercising their right to freedom of expression.
Right. Like anyone in America gives a fuck about their rights and how they are losing them.
Re:Dumb Canadians... (Score:2)
Re:So if I buy my CDs from Canada... (Score:2)
The laws only work in Canada. Take the Blank CDs to the USA and you are subject to american law -- not to mention you just paid extra for blank CDs.
I suppose you could take a bag of dirt from "the land" and spread it on the floor around your computer and then claim you are on "canadian soil" when the police come knockin', but somehow I doubt it would work. Still it would be a good read on Fark.com
Re:That is good (Score:2)
Are you sure about that? Perhaps they changed the rules recently, but the way it was originally written into the copyright act was that you could make a copy of any musical recording, regardless of whether or not you owned the original, but only if you made the recording for your own personal use. In o
Re:So what (Score:2)
It works even better with gas tax going towards road repair.
What I don't like is paying a levy on my CD-R's that goes to recording artists when I'm actually using them to burn porn or hollywood movies... just kidding!