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China Prepares to Launch Alternate Internet

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the aided-by-google-no-doubt dept.

510

Netfree writes "The Chinese government has announced plans to launch an alternate Internet root system with new Chinese character domains for dot-com and dot-net. This may mean that Chinese Internet users will no longer rely on ICANN, the U.S.-backed domain name administrator, and, as one commentator notes, could be the beginning of the end of the globally interoperable Internet."

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510 comments

A long time coming... (3, Interesting)

TripMaster Monkey (862126) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817794)


Given the intransigence the U.S. has displayed in the past regarding control of TLDs, this move isn't all that surprising. It is somewhat surprising, however, that China has chosen .com and .net as two of their TLDs, virtually guaranteeing operability problems with the rest of the Internet. While this manufactured difficulty is obviously by design, the motive remains unclear. Do the Chinese wish to:

  • create their own internet, by design incompatible with the rest of the world,
  • cause as much trouble as possible for the 'other' internet, or
  • a combination of the two?

One thing is for sure...network administrators will have an interesting time trying to reconcile the conflicting TLDs .com and .net. Perhaps the fact that the Chinese TLDs are in the Chinese character set can be used to some effect, but I'm not certain.

Wha I am certain of is this: when I'm in charge, we'll have none of this 'multiple language' crap. Everyone will speak Esperanto [wikipedia.org] , or else.

Re:A long time coming... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14817834)

don't forget how easy it will be for them to censor their new ChinaNet....

Very simple (3, Insightful)

Brunellus (875635) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817839)

The idea is user-friendliness and connectivity, but on the terms of the Chinese Communist Party

Chinese-encoded TLDs will make it easier for an increasingly-wired Chinese people to use the internet. It will also make it much easier for the Party to control exactly what happens on Chinese-language domains.

In an earlier age, Mao said that the Party must be in control of the gun. Now, the Party must be in control of the network. The effect is the same.

Re:Very simple (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14818040)

Yet for some reason we still embargo Cuba but not China. I guess Cuban-American votes count more than Chinese-American.

An open source project should do this instead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14817894)

Ugh, why another government+corporate frankenstein? I'm all for breaking free from ICANN - but this is something best done by an open source foundation rather than yet another corrupt greedy-as-a-corporation but above-the-law-like-a-government abonimation.


Why can't we (the open source community) just set up our own root servers?

Re:An open source project should do this instead (1)

drakaan (688386) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818010)

You mean, why not have an Alternative DNS Root [wikipedia.org] or two?

Not only is there an alternative, there are several.

Re:A long time coming...Not that problem (2, Insightful)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817903)

It is somewhat surprising, however, that China has chosen .com and .net as two of their TLDs, virtually guaranteeing operability problems with the rest of the Internet.

Should not be a problem as long as their names include even one Chinese character, since I'm not aware that ICANN is even capable of assigning such names otherwise. At least I have yet to hear about any such names.

Strikes me that what they're trying to do is even further cut themselves off from undesired Western influences. They may well succeed -- for a while.

Re:A long time coming...Not that problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14818071)

Should not be a problem as long as their names include even one Chinese character, since I'm not aware that ICANN is even capable of assigning such names otherwise. At least I have yet to hear about any such names.

So you missed all the news stories about IDN [wikipedia.org] spoofing attacks then?

This is old news... (1)

oringo (848629) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817920)

China has already implemented this internet, and the url in the OP is hosted on it! That's why I'm getting access denied!

esperanto?! (1)

selfdiscipline (317559) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817971)

Surely you mean lojban [wikipedia.org] right?

Re:A long time coming... (1)

Aspirator (862748) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818000)

I suspect that all they mean is attempting to control the flow of information
at their borders, thumb their noses at ICANN.

They will only allow access to their own DNS, and will provide portals mapping
Internet DNS to their own internal DNS on a selective basis. Thus they can try
to allow the internet in on a 'deny then allow' policy.

Will this prevent any tech-savy Chinese users from accessing the real Internet? No.

Will it help to keep the mass of Chinese users from accessing the real Internet? Yes.

I don't think it will present too much of an obstacle to re-integration of the
"Chinternet" with the real Internet when they come to their senses.

Re:A long time coming... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14818019)

>Wha I am certain of is this: when I'm in charge,
>we'll have none of this 'multiple language' crap.
>Everyone will speak Esperanto, or else.

And will trade in their cars for autogyros...

Re:A long time coming... (1)

Lugae (88858) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818024)

Dankon!

Re:A long time coming... (1)

dugb (10154) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818026)

The People's Daily article mentions that the TLDs .MIL, .GOV and .EDU will be created under .CN. The fact that they have chosen not to place their .COM and .NET under .CN suggests a desire on their part to challenge the authority of ICANN.

Re:A long time coming... (1)

Wizardry Dragon (952618) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818084)

Just looking at the current situation, it's obvious, to me at least, that the motive is plain and simple censorship; the government is finding they cannot censor the normal internet effectively, and the US government is taking companies to task that have allowed the Chineese government to participate in such censorship, and thus the government is going to construct their own 'sandbox' and presumably force the populace to play in that sandbox, and ONLY that sandbox.

I'd hardly call it the end of the internet; China may be a lot of people, but EVERYONE ELSE is a lot of people too.

Is it going to be mandatory? (1)

Enigma_Man (756516) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817798)

Because why would any Chinese citizen use that over the actual internet?

-Jesse

Re:Is it going to be mandatory? (1)

tpjunkie (911544) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817820)

And given china's current censorship policies, what makes you think they'll have a choice?

Re:Is it going to be mandatory? (1)

WeAzElMaN (667859) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817891)

I was thinking along the same lines. This probably has less to do with China pissing off the west and more to do with the further isolation of its people.

I find it ironic that the fastest developing nation in the world is shunning the economic powerhouse that is the internet - it seems like suicide to me. Is China bluffing or do they really plan to shoot themselves in their own foot?

-WeAz

Re:Is it going to be mandatory? (1)

drpimp (900837) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817893)

Considering there are applications like Psiphon [third-bit.com] to circumlent their censorship. It is the only thing they can do just shy of blocking access to every industry that uses SSL.

Re:Is it going to be mandatory? (1)

HybridJeff (717521) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817865)

"Because why would any Chinese citizen use that over the actual internet?"

You assume they will have a choice?

Of course not (2, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818001)

All root systems are totally optional. You don't need to use DNS at all to use the Internet, and if you do use DNS, you are free to use your own that is tied to no roots and assign domains to IPs as you see fit. The ICANN roots are simply the defacto standard. It's a system that nearly everyone uses to provide DNS that's accessable to everyone else. There are other root services, OpenNIC for example, they just aren't used all that much.

This is all much ado about nothing, as it always has been with these DNS debates. Other countries are free to create a non-ICANN root system and that system can be compatible or not compatible. If they choose, they can register only non-ICANN TLDs, and provide access to ICANN TLDs by mirroring ICANN's root file. They can also choose to provide alternate, incompatible registrations of ICANN TLDs.

Wether any of this has any effect depends on if any DNS servers add their roots to the list of roots they check. If most DNS servers never check them, they'll be irrelivant. If most do, they'll be relivant.

Within the borders of China, of course, the government can mandidate people use it, but on a global scale it's up to the people who write DNS servers, and ultimately individual sysamdins. If you admin a DNS server, you determine which roots, if any, it chooses to use.

Re:Of course not (1)

Aspirator (862748) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818066)

They will just specify that any ISP provide DNS service that
complies with their wishes, or they are out of business.

Re:Of course not (2, Insightful)

ErikZ (55491) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818091)

You don't need to use DNS at all to use the Internet, and if you do use DNS, you are free to use your own that is tied to no roots and assign domains to IPs as you see fit.

And in other news, The Chinese government has banned the use of foriegn root servers. Violators may be enrolled in the the state "Organ Donor" farm program.

There you have it, US (1, Insightful)

A beautiful mind (821714) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817800)

This most likely wouldn't have happened if the current Bush administration cooperates internationally. Thanks a bunch!

Re:There you have it, US (1)

Enigma_Man (756516) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817833)

What? No... that doesn't make sense at all. What does Bush have anything to do with this? He's a dummy, no doubt, but seriously... What are you basing that conclusion on? Besides, having china off the internet just means less spam / viruses / crap for me.

Re:There you have it, US (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14818021)

What does Bush have anything to do with this?

Uh..President of the United States. He represents the United States to the rest of the world and is responsible for working with the leaders of other countries to achieve common goals. Interoperatbility of the internet is a common goal (or it should be).

Re:There you have it, US (1)

Horatio_Hellpop (926706) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817934)

Uhh ... come again? The current administration hasn't a donkey's left nut to do with this!

Think. Before. You. Post.

Re:There you have it, US (1)

torpor (458) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818035)

If Bush hadn't set the example of uni-laterally dominating the ICANN blowup, China wouldn't so easily be in the position to be going of its own, as well, and there would still be, at least, a forum within which this could be resolved .. Internationally...

Bigots don't like to think in terms of One World Government, but there is for sure a reason we might wanna recognize ourselves as a single species, instead of arbitrary nation-states and other cliques granting themselves infinite power to do what they want ..

Re:There you have it, US (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14817949)

I don't suppose you are aware that China has one of the most politically repressive regimes around. I guess you are also not aware of all the attempts made by the Chinese government, with help from Yahoo, Google, Microsoft, et al, to restrict what their citizens can see or communicate and toss in prison anyone who disagrees.

Their government also likes to assert a lot more control over their own economy than is supposed to be permitted by WTO. Its not just manipulating the yuan and stealing IP. Notice they chose the two major commercial TLD's to co-opt. Watchout for a Chinese google.com if they don't play ball. I bet you also enjoy the low prices of the goods you buy made by Chinese prison slave labor.

Do you always assume that when bad people do bad things that its yours, America's or someone else's fault? Could it be that bad people do bad things because they are bad?

If anything your utter cluelessness makes you seem more of a Bushie than himself.

Re:There you have it, US (1)

Mayhem178 (920970) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818008)

Yes! Let the Bush bashing begin, because in times of uncertainty, the best course of action is to blindly accuse the most visible public leader in the nation. Sorry, Dubya, that'd be you!

Seriously though, how exactly does the Bush administration have anything to do with this? Granted, I doubt Dubya could even spell DNS, let alone know what it stands for. But 99% of the things he's blamed for are just the ignorant masses pointing their fingers at the politician most visible to them: the President. It doesn't help that he's made some questionable decisions during his administration, either, but that hardly makes him liable for the majority of the things he's accused for.

This is taken directly from icann.org:

The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) is an internationally organized, non-profit corporation that has responsibility for Internet Protocol (IP) address space allocation, protocol identifier assignment, generic (gTLD) and country code (ccTLD) Top-Level Domain name system management, and root server system management functions. These services were originally performed under U.S. Government contract by the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) and other entities. ICANN now performs the IANA function.

So tell me exactly how Bush, or the government in general, has anything to do with this situation?

Why the fuck is this a 'troll'? (1)

jabbo (860) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818017)

Are you people in denial? The Chinese are not particularly nice people, but their manufacturing economy would run a lot smoother over an interoperable Internet. Given the choice of maintaining the Great Firewall of China vs. maintaining their own damn Internet, I suspect even the PRC would choose the former if it were in any way easier.

Re:Why the fuck is this a 'troll'? (1)

jabbo (860) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818048)

nb. by 'the Chinese' I mean the Party apparatchiks. The other 1.25 billion Chinese being oppressed by them have my empathy (I'd say 'sympathy' but at least they seem not to be complacent sheep-like Americans).

WAAAAAAHOOOOOOOOOO (0, Flamebait)

buttcheese (884499) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817801)

pinko commies thwarting my internet, I say mutually assured destruction. lets blow the hell out of them commies.

Re:WAAAAAAHOOOOOOOOOO (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14818100)

Worked well in Vietnam, huh?

And I hear you are very successful in getting Iraq clean of towelheads ... oh, wait, no!

US == permanent failure

You are the new France when it comes to military victories.

Internet (1)

u16084 (832406) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817805)

Internet 2 is just growing, lets just skip 2 and go directly to 3.

Two things... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14817810)

1) I recall days when the Internet consisted of a fair number of nets: Milnet, Bitnet, ARPAnet, NSFnet... I suspect the underlying technology can handle them again.

2) If China drops off line, will they take their spammers as well?

Re:Two things... (1)

biz0r (656300) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818088)

It isn't the same.

What China is doing here is OVERRIDING the default/normal/rest_of_the_world's names, and thus anyone looking up, say....http:://google.com [http] will get directed to CHINA's version/replacement/whatever of google.com. The net of days past did not handle this. Off the top of my head it would be quite difficult, if not impossible to preserve the way sites are accessed normally from inside that (China's internet) network (and thats saying there is a bridge of some sort from 'their' internet to 'our' internet).

The only way to win is not to play at all.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14817812)

That's the problem with refusing to cooperate and compromise. In the short term, there is more to be gained by refusing to cooperate and compromise. Eventually, however, the conflict escalates to the point where both sides lose more than they gain.

it makes sense... (4, Insightful)

AxemRed (755470) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817813)

Controlling the backbones will make the "internet" a lot easier for them to censor.

Re:it makes sense... (1)

JeffSh (71237) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817946)

but its not a "backbone".. china already controls their network backbones. this is entirely different, they are root domain servers... i know im being picky, but still, come on.

Re:it makes sense... (1)

jwarnick (637847) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817966)

This is mostly about censorship. Content filters and firewalls to the West will always have some holes, so overlaying dot.com with a Chinese controlled dot.com will make content suppression much easier technically.

Additionally, this is a business issue of consuming and potentially paying for web services from the West. If Chinese can't get to the web services (and consumer advertising), they will rely on what is available in China. This allows Chinese entrepreneurs a nice sandbox with a large number of users who will consume what is available. It may become an easy path to observe web services in the West and then clone it for the Chinese internet - no competition from the West!

The end? (1)

umrgregg (192838) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817821)

I doubt it. The current system is too embedded in China to be totally replaced by their own DNS system.

Re:The end? (1)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817846)

Why not?

They have shown that they can control the traffic, it would be trivial to restrict DNS lookups to their internal servers.

Re:The end? (1)

Billosaur (927319) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817872)

I doubt it. The current system is too embedded in China to be totally replaced by their own DNS system.

Not at all; China has one of the largest industrial bases on the planet. It would not surprise me if they could completely strip down and rework their entire Internet structure in as little as 2-3 years. Remember, the government mandates things; despite reforms, the Communist government is still in control and can "recommend" the use of their Internet over the larger one. And for anyone wishing to object, the Chinese government has powerful emans of persuasion, a.k.a. guns.

Re:The end? (1)

Hwyman (840955) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818099)

Yeah! That would be like relocation hundreds of thousands of people to make room for a dam. Oh, wait a second.... ;)

Or.... (2, Interesting)

tdeuces (957421) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817824)

"As one commentator notes, could be the beginning of the end of the globally interoperable Internet".

Or it could mean the rest of the world will continue to be interoperable while China becomes even more isolated.

Re:Or.... (1)

Vulch (221502) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817890)

Or it could mean China and most of the rest of the world continue to be interoperable and the USA is left running an isolated branch.

Re:Or.... (1)

Talian (746379) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818052)

Because obviously the rest of the world is going to JUMP at the chance of chinese character domains in lieu of what's currently there. Sure.

Not bloody likely (1)

jabbo (860) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818098)

China will soon surpass the USA as the largest consumer of fuel oil and by 2025 will likely be the most productive economy on the face of the Earth. Whose interweb do you want to be on -- your trading partner's, or the Other Guys?

BushCo and ICANN are shooting themselves in the foot (well, more like their constituents, but who the fuck cares about numbers in a Diebold machine anyways?). Of course, they're not going to be tasked with cleaning up their mess, whereas the Chinese will have to make their mess work. Who's got the better motive here?

I guess (2, Insightful)

Orclover (228413) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817827)

I guess google's bending over backwards to censor the web searching just wasnt good enough, maybe some of the citizens figured out how to use lycos. Nothing they can do about that but recreate the internet in thier own immage. But without porn...will it really be the internet?

Re:I guess (1)

tinkertim (918832) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817935)

I think this was more a dns-zoo-and-google-knew thing. They're launching some rather huge ventures soon and don't want to slam the door on a couple billion people who will be using their new auctions, adsense, etc.

Of course I do not know this for sure, its only speculation, but it really looks like Google got wind of this and made some last minute concessions.. or went into it knowing they'd be conceeding in the end anyway.

Either way, we can't Blame google for this, or for taking measures needed to keep themselves afloat. Yes they may have a competitive edge by being the only US commercial presence to reach China.

You can, and can't fault politics also. 95% of my brute force spam attacks come from China. I never get a reply from an abuse department. I (think) I have a good 1/3 of the country blocked from port 25 anyway. I had no choice.

What I can say is I've been around a while, and contributing quite a bit to the effort that made the internet. I go back to the dial up days (insert dinosaur IT guy ramblings here).

This isn't the internet I helped to build. Its truly become a little too much like real life now.

This really, really sucks.

Re:I guess (2, Funny)

rovingeyes (575063) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817960)

But without porn...will it really be the internet?

I take it that you are not in to Chinese porn.

About time for the wake-up call!!! (0)

Pig Hogger (10379) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817831)

It's about-time that the anglo-saxons wake-up to the fact that their crippled alphabet is not a valid means of international communication!

Other languages have different characters and or accents on them, and it's always a piss-off to be forced to use a characted subset to express yourself properly; when you leave out the accents, you look like an illiterate slob who does not know how to write correctly.

Re:About time for the wake-up call!!! (1)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817879)

then explain to me if english is not that expressive why it has the greatest number of currently used words in the modern world.

I would venture further to say that by using only 26 symbols to express everything in the modern world, engish is much more efficient. Granted it could have more dependably applied pronunciation and grammar rules, but at least we anglos don't have to memorize 60,000-360,000 symbols (depending on which language's kanji you use)

Re:About time for the wake-up call!!! (1)

stunt_penguin (906223) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817959)

He was talking about the accents and punctuation characterised by languages like Spanish, French, German, Italian and so on. The punctuation marks are there as guides to pronuncation and meaning, and actually help clarify the use of language.

Re:About time for the wake-up call!!! (1)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817969)

hehe.. as a former student of latin i have to comment on how if the pronounced it as it should have been pronounced instead of "redneck roman" they wouldnt need the accent marks.

Re:About time for the wake-up call!!! (1)

twopeak (882196) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818042)

Did you see that eventhough the chinese will have their own internet the "peoples daily online" clearly states that their system is going to be in latin signs. And what surprised me is that they will use EDU for education. I'm sure Chinese have their own word for that. Now chinese need to know english for it to be logical!

Re:About time for the wake-up call!!! (1)

jbeaupre (752124) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817958)

Except for a typo, that was a very effective, one might say valid, bit of international communication.
Oh, wait. Maybe you meant "not the only valid means." Still, I wouldn't say that you are illiterate for such a slip. And I'll take your word on your hygiene.

Re:About time for the wake-up call!!! (1)

shidobu (672566) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817976)

As far as different characters, yeah, ASCII doesn't cut, it, but unicode can and does deal with it, allowing anyone who wants to take the time to reconfigure their keyboard to communicate in whatever alphabet they want. But if accents are your problem, even ASCII contains accented versions of characters in the high-8 bits. Just bind alt-letter to the accented version, and look literate again.

The fact that international communication is primarily english has nothing to do with the inaccessability of other character sets.

Re:About time for the wake-up call!!! (1)

Pig Hogger (10379) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818070)

The fact that international communication is primarily english has nothing to do with the inaccessability of other character sets.
Quite true; it's more because anglo-saxons are too stupid to learn other languages.

And (1)

nightsweat (604367) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818036)

Most of those languages are slowly but surely losing the diacritical marks.

See many circumflexes lately? They're being deprecated from French sloly but surely. Other accents will follow

Re:About time for the wake-up call!!! (1)

Pig Hogger (10379) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818037)

It's about-time that the anglo-saxons wake-up to the fact that their crippled alphabet is not a valid means of international communication!

Other languages have different characters and or accents on them, and it's always a piss-off to be forced to use a characted subset to express yourself properly; when you leave out the accents, you look like an illiterate slob who does not know how to write correctly.

(Reposted, account modetarded as "overrated" by an ignorant redneck moderator).

"Going global" (1)

Theovon (109752) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817835)

You know, the US used to be a lot more isolationist. We tend to see ourselves as superior, which limits our incentive to reach out to other countries. So we have people inside and outside of the US pressuring Americans go "go global." Given the commerce relationships we have with China, I have a feeling that they're one of the major source of that pressure. "Go global! Buy from China!"

And then they turn around and start closing themselves off from the rest of the world.

Re:"Going global" (1)

tinkertim (918832) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818096)

>> You know, the US used to be a lot more isolationist.

Was that back when immigrants were greeted with :

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breath free.
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

And not a TSA agent?

End of globally interoperable internet? (1)

HoosierPeschke (887362) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817838)

Probably not.

Unless they are going to physically separate the networks, someone on the Chinese internet could still get out. Granted some kind of connector or tunneling may have to be used but stating the end of the globally interoperable internet is a bit extreme.

Worst. Idea. Ever. (1)

gentimjs (930934) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817840)

Lets suppose for whatever reason I want to navigate my computer which isnt in china with an english language OS install to www.learn-to-speak-mandarin.[$CHINESE_CHAR] or to www.[$CHINESE_CHAR].net ... how exactly am I supposed to do this? ESPECIALL if icann and the rest of the "standard" DNS using world isnt tied in to whatever they are doing? You know .. I'm usually more tolerant than I should be when I hear about some of the crap that goes on in China .. but this sad excuse of re-inventing the wheel just to more tightly control thier censorship stuff really fries my rice ..

Re:Worst. Idea. Ever. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14817961)

> www.learn-to-speak-mandarin.[$CHINESE_CHAR]

WWW ? Don't you mean CWW, for China-Wide-Web?

Figures... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14817841)

now that China has started I wonder how long before the EU jumps on the me too bandwagon?

Re:Figures... (1)

VJ42 (860241) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818012)

We already have, well sort of: http://european.nl.orsn.net/ [orsn.net]

Not always a bad thing. (1)

Thaidog (235587) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817844)

See what they do and see if it works better!

sigh (4, Insightful)

eobanb (823187) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817852)

I can't help but view this as the fault of the US. Think about it. ICANN, a US organisation, has done little to cater to the wishes of China, even though they're a large (and growing) presence on the internet. I may not agree with some of the views of the Chinese government, but if they want Chinese TLDs, they should have them.

ICANN needs to get off their high horse immediately.

Re:sigh (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14818034)

I can't help but view this as the fault of the US. Think about it. ICANN, a US organisation, has done little to cater to the wishes of China, even though they're a large (and growing) presence on the internet.

China's wishes are irrelevant. Like most countries, ICANN gave control of .cn to the Chinese government to manage as they see fit. I have no clue if China is doing a good job of managing .cn. But it's up to them.

I may not agree with some of the views of the Chinese government, but if they want Chinese TLDs, they should have them.

There are workarounds like punycode to register domain names with non-ascii characters. They work pretty well. If a Chinese company wants to register a .com name, no one is stopping them. The rules for .com registration, ownership & transfer are pretty clear. Pay around $8 per year and there you go.

As a sovereign nation, China can do as they wish within their borders. But if you expect anyone outside China to accept China's DNS servers as authoritative for .com (or .net, .us, .ca, .uk, etc.), I think you're wrong.

The only real complaint China has is how many IPv4 addresses they have.

Re:sigh (3, Insightful)

IAmTheDave (746256) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818064)

I can't help but view this as the fault of the US. Think about it.

Not at all. China wants full and complete control of the internet and how it gives information to it's users. If ICANN had made chinese-character-encoded TLDs available, the Chinese government would have chosen a different method of control.

Make no mistake - this is an isolationary tactic, taking back control of what I'm sure the Chinese government sees as rightfully theirs. If ICANN does not exist in China and is not beholden to Chinese authority, then China does not have enough control and will shun ICANN, no matter how "cooperative" they may be.

I feel a great disturbance in the force... (4, Funny)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817853)

As if millions of MMORPG gold farmers cried out in terror, and were suddenly silences...

Re:I feel a great disturbance in the force... (1)

StonedYoda47 (732257) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817951)

That's the best comment so far.

To hell with 'em ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14817869)

The communists in China won't import American HTML, poach American manufacturing industries and game the so called "free trade" system to their advantage.

Given that they've got ICBMs aimed at Los Angeles, New York and Washington, perhaps it's high time Congress reviewed its "free trade" policies with China.

Since the communists abort their females, we're looking at China exporting Boeing 747 loads of their angry young men to the US as cheap labor if we don't do something about it now.

Bad for China's economy (4, Insightful)

G4from128k (686170) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817871)

This move puts Chinese companies at a competitive disadvantage -- how can they connect to foreign suppliers, distributors, and customers? Will western companies continue to outsource to China if the country puts up too many obstacles to free communication?

Uh. (1)

earthstar (748263) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817882)

Great. Every country will have its own internet. wow. Humans know to really screw things up too.

So Long... (1)

vmcto (833771) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817883)

And thanks for all the fish!

Slashdotted already ! (1)

KaushalParekh (896920) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817907)

whatever happened to coral cache ?

no more spam? (2, Funny)

aphaenogaster (884935) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817910)

This could be great, if china closes itself off from the rest of the net, my firewalls will give an audible sigh of relief. Now only if eastern europe would follow suit.

Re:no more spam? (2, Funny)

CynicalGuy (866115) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818082)

That's what I was thinking too. Good riddance!. If anyone from the Chinese government is reading this, can you PLEASE take Korea with you? My mail server will thank you!

So ... (1)

LordKaT (619540) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817916)

... after reading all of this, does this mean that China is starting its own root, isolated from the rest of the world, or is it starting a roo that can understand chinese characters?

I'm thinking the latter, though I'm at work and don't really care either way.

Depend on the way you look at this ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14817924)

Internet is under USA control, Europe has asked for a long time to move this control to UN to prevent fragmentation and ensure "non country tied" control.

Right, Chinese want to bring ICANN alternative ?

I see this as an example of what europe was anticipating.

US government got two solution, #1 push Overall Internet Governence to UN now (meaning keeping the complete control on US part of Internet) or #2 waiting for who will be the next one to push its own domain control system !!!

Europe is already considering to do that, and given the time it has required for ICANN to finish .eu process, I can tell you that we will be glad to hear this news !

I would preffer the Internet to be unique, but if US does not care about multilateral control of a unique center of control, then let's create multiple center of control. Stupid to kill internet like that, but c'est la vie :(

ha. (1)

danielk1982 (868580) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817930)

Blame America in 5..4..3..2..

Oh wait.. It already started.

Re:ha. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14818065)

Yep. It seems like you've got two types of people -- one that jumps to seeing this as a chance to blame America and the other type (like me) whose first thought was "YAY! Less spam!"

And I do find that difference to be quite telling.

Bon Voyage! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14817940)

Enjoy your new DNS hierarchy. If you create something interesting in your hierarchy, we'll either figure out how to get it in ours or maybe even ditch ours entirely and switch to yours. Until then those of us on the old system don't give a crap what you do.

Language Sees It as Damage and Translates Over It. (1)

torpor (458) | more than 8 years ago | (#14817972)


We could all learn Chinese. End of problem.

How, exactly? (1)

dbc (135354) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818002)

One artcle is slashdotted, and the other two are short on technical details. So, I'm wondering, how are they going to make people go to the governments name servers? Will using your own cache hints file beecome a hanging offense? Will they stop routing all of ICANN's root servers?

When (not if) the Chinese government starts using their name servers as part of their censorship operations, a zillion "alternative" name servers will spring up behind the Great Firewall of China. A zillion distributed names servers, running on obscure ports, mirroring the ICANN root servers will spring up. They will be refreshed by obscure daemons running on obscure ports that penetrate the firewall.

Heck, it probably doesn't even take any programming. Just cooking up the appropriate config files for bind could get some caching name servers going that avoid easy to block ip's and ports.

Biggest. Fork. Ever! (1)

AnonymousKev (754127) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818004)

end transmission.

My $0.02 (1)

Josh teh Jenius (940261) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818015)

  1. TripMaster Monkey is 100% right: anyone who follows the "newz" knows that this is/was a long-time coming.
  2. Personally, I will always support political decentralization. I expect that 90% of the USA's problems stems from trying to get ~300 million shaved-apes (me too) to get along. Heck- the fiance and me still fight over pizza toppings...
  3. Ironically, I believe that technical de-centralization, i.e. tech corps and governments attempting to create "new" and "better" standards, are usually diametrically opposed to point #2.
  4. China: ask the Native Americans, the East Europeans, the Germans, the Japanese and anyone else in history: the name of this game is money. Many of the "powers that be" have pursued a very clear, direct plan for complete Globalization since long before the American Revolution (1776).
  5. You can't stop this war with guns. In fact, ANY attempt at control is self-defeating. A free-market influenced by the consumer spending of "the people" is about as close to a "free society" as ANY of us will ever get.
  6. Wait a sec...it's a Tuesday. I never could get the hang of Tuesdays. Please disregard the above rant.

China makes the same mistake again? (1)

DeltaQH (717204) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818033)

China once isolated itself from the world with the consequences known by everybody specially to the chinese.
It is worth to jeopardize the future of the country for the sake of censorship?
Is the chinese oligarchy more interested in maintaining its grip on power or in developing their own country for the sake of its future and of its own people?
Such situations in the past have shown not very good results for China down the road... Even for ruling oligarchy of the moment...


A government not accountable enough, not transparent enough, not democratic enough... is no government at all.

"Internet"? (1)

verbnoun (920657) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818041)

Could it really be called the Internet if it is limited to only China. Doesn't the "inter" part imply "international"?

What next? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14818058)

A version of firefox with the address bar located vertically along the side to support the top to bottom direction of the language? I guess it would make sense...

DNS != Internet, and DNS hierarchy (2, Interesting)

billstewart (78916) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818068)

This doesn't end the globally interoperable Internet - as long as IP packets go end-to-end, it's still just fine. Depending on exactly how they've implemented this, it may be cleanly interoperable with the rest of DNS (except that the Global Roots have to get around to including China's extra CC_TLDs), or it may be interoperable for anybody using a compatible Chinese character-set handler client (which shouldn't be a big problem, since the reason for Chinese-Character CCTLDs is to include Chinese-character content). On the other hand, it could be implemented in a way that horribly breaks any 7-bit-ASCII DNS client. It shouldn't do that - DNS is hierarchical, so the worst it should do is botch lookups to the section because the DNS server's responding in Unicode and the client doesn't understand them.

The ICANN sky is falling! (1)

MasterC (70492) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818069)

...as one commentator notes, could be the beginning of the end of the globally interoperable Internet.

I'd be happy to read Michael Geist's comments if his server wasn't slashdotted. Based on the article summary (as well all know are always 100% accurate) I have to call this a load of crap.

If both networks are still using IPv4 then there is no end to the global internet, only the global domain system. I know, I know. For most, domain names *are* the internet. But all I have to do is throw my DNS requests at a different DNS server and, bam, I'm on the "other" internet.

Has no one heard of the alternate DNS root system [wikipedia.org] ? It appears this is all China is intending on doing: an alternate DNS system (but making it the primary one). Now, how they plan to block all ICANN root servers and all DNS servers that use them.....well, time will tell I guess.

Hardly any reason to yell that the global internet is coming to an end. Maybe the ICANN empire, but that doesn't sadden me in the least bit.

Issue of Control (2, Insightful)

Nkwe (604125) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818074)

If China wanted to control what their citizens could see and do on the Internet they could 1) set up their own DNS, and 2) Prohibit DNS traffic from leaving or entering the country. While technically savvy folks could navigate by solely IP or make partnerships with someone outside of China to get DNS information over non-standard ports, restricting use of DNS would be a highly effective control.

... a long way ahead .... :) (1)

papaia (652949) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818079)

./ effect ;)

Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers ...
... Too many client tasks ...

And I care because? (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818083)

So long as I can keep buying my wardrobe for 29.95$ at Wal-mart I really don't care what they do to their people.

Look, they have over a billion people there. And they can't get their government together?

TOO FUCKING BAD!

Tom

IP addresses (1)

theCat (36907) | more than 8 years ago | (#14818094)

IIRC, the US and Europe ended up getting the biggest share of the IPv4 address space, and this hasn't helped Asian countries much when it comes to growing their Internet presence. I don't know how well IPv6 has taken off there (poorly if things in the US are any indication) so I wonder if one of the goals of the Chinese project is to eventually route their own Class A blocks along with TLDs? If they did that then they would be 100% on their own, as the rest of the 'Net would have to cut them off to avoid packet collisions. Heck, they'd have to set up border mail proxies just to share email with the West... which would give them a lot of filtering/monitoring options too... I bet that is really attractive to them right now.
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