Space Jackets Down to Earth 87
Roland Piquepaille writes "Several technologies used to design the space suits protecting astronauts are now being adapted to protect workers facing extremely hot and dangerous conditions. According to the European Space Agency (ESA), these 'space-cooled' jackets are using three different technologies: special 3D-textile structure, cooling apparatus derived from astronauts' suits, and a special water-binding polymer acting as a coating. Even if these protective clothes are primarily intended for firefighters or steel workers, several applications are possible, such as in sportswear or in cars as parts of air conditioning systems. Read more for additional details and pictures."
Sounds Boss (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Sounds Boss (Score:4, Informative)
There are lots of cool (pun intended) technologies that aren't available because demand isn't high enough to justify investing billions in a manufacturing plant.
Re:Sounds Boss (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sounds Boss (Score:2, Interesting)
Indeed, it is likely we will see clothing such as this used by firefighters quite soon, for instance. While that isn't everybody, it would start to bring such textiles into everyday usage.
If such materials are too expensive to be used for consumer-grade clothing, we may initially see it used for items such as cooking gloves. Eventually the technology will be developed further, and likely will become economically feasible for widespread use.
If I had to make a guess as t
Not just clothing. Computer cooling systems. (Score:1, Interesting)
Even more importantly, such tubing could prove very useful for massive data centres or hosting complexes. The heat from computers could be collected and put to other uses. Some have theorized that it could even be used to
Re:Sounds Boss (Score:1)
erm.. (Score:4, Funny)
"special 3D-textile structure"
At what point did we start making 2D clothes? Arn't all clothes and materials 3D by being oh.. part of a realm using 3D form?
Maybe this is just going over my head, but seems like bullshit marketing for idiots to me.
Re:erm.. (Score:1, Insightful)
-Not bother wi
Re:erm.. (Score:2)
Re:erm.. (Score:1)
2d Textile Structures is in regards to the process of weaving fibers together that being the most common way to create a textile.
I think the Special 3d way is by making actual fiber like cell structures on a microscopic level and binding those together. Think tempurpedic memory foam etc.
That's just my guess can anyone please shed a little more light on this?
Re:erm.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Instead here the fabrics are being considered in three dimensions from square one - their manufacture is in three directions to provide sweat wicking and other interesting properties.
Err, no. (Score:2)
There's a big difference between "flat" and "2d."
-Graha
Huh? What was that noise? (Score:3, Funny)
Synthesizers rule! It's THE FINAL COUNTDOWN! (Score:2, Insightful)
But seriously, you'd think Europe would want to streamline their space budget since they're planning on releasing a technology to compete with the United States' GPS system, but if they keep throwing away money like this it won't happen
Re:Synthesizers rule! It's THE FINAL COUNTDOWN! (Score:3, Interesting)
Could it also be because we've realized that there's actually not a hell of a lot out there to explore? In the 1960's everyone was so excited about space because we'd never made it that far off the planet, but now that it's been done... there's not a lot to do out there except keep some interesting zero-g science experiments running. (It is a vaccuum after all... by definition, somewhat
Re:Synthesizers rule! It's THE FINAL COUNTDOWN! (Score:2)
Re:Synthesizers rule! It's THE FINAL COUNTDOWN! (Score:2)
Re:Synthesizers rule! It's THE FINAL COUNTDOWN! (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe NASA won't tell them? A while ago a friend told me that the tech behind the US space suits was still classified. Apparently it was classified because it was assumed that the Russians hadn't figured out how to use Peltier Effect devices in a space suit and used normal compressors to cooling. He claimed that there had been an active misinformation campai
Re:Synthesizers rule! It's THE FINAL COUNTDOWN! (Score:2)
Re:Synthesizers rule! It's THE FINAL COUNTDOWN! (Score:3, Informative)
what a surprise (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:what a surprise (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:what a surprise (Score:1, Offtopic)
Bully Protection (Score:2)
Imagine being a bully taking a nice swing at your gut, when his hand his stopped by space-age meteor
shielding!
Maybe we can get thinkgeek to carry it....
Re:Bully Protection (Score:1)
Well, I think that sending your child to school in bully-proof, shiny reflective crinkly coating will just invite bullies to field test the stuff. Punches don't work? Lets try tables. Tables thrown at his head!!
Re:Bully Protection (Score:2)
Re:Bully Protection (Score:2)
Forget the clothes... (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:Forget the clothes... (Score:1)
http://www.funkyfoodshop.com/spacefood/ [funkyfoodshop.com]
Re:Forget the clothes... (Score:2)
Rolands template (Score:2, Insightful)
gues who's posts come up on a google phrase search on
read more for additional details [google.com]
Sad that Slashdot keep accepting stories from this spammer, a billion websites with billions of articles and we have to have the same names/spammers/copy&pasters/desperate individuals crap over and over again
no wonder people block adverts here and dont subscribe, try adding value to this site and listening to your potential audience, it might give people an incentive to help this place and donate/unblock ads instead o
Page with the actual jacket (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Page with the actual jacket (Score:2)
AW alert. (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes this is a troll. But Roland is an attention whore. It's worth the karma burn.
Re:AW alert. (Score:1)
Some obvious suggestions (Score:2)
Re:Some obvious suggestions (Score:1, Offtopic)
While I appreciate your loyalty, nameless one, it's "Havoxx, Lord of the Elements", never "Lord Havoxx". Let's watch that.
I am a firefighter - and I find this suspect. (Score:5, Informative)
I am fairly safe from heat and smoke up to the point of a 'flashover' -- in which case I have between 4 and 16 seconds to be somewhere else before being incinerated. I am so well protected, that many of the guys refuse to wear the hood or else won't fold down the leather flaps on the helment to cover their ears further because their warning for when the heat is too intense is when their ears start to feel too hot even through the protection.
In addition to all this, I am carrying one or more of the following: Radio, Light, Axe (or other similar tool), Water Can, Thermal Imaging Camera, escape rope, hose line.
Exactly how is it that this fancy jacket or undershirt is going to help me? I'm hot, but not so much that I can't make it through the 20 minutes in there. When I come out, I am handed a 20oz bottle of water and expected to finish it on the spot while having my pulse and respiration checked before even considering going back in.
This jacket would supposedly protect me from flashover -- several thousand degrees where anything that can combust, will.
BULLSHIT.
Even if the jacket worked, my face mask would melt to my face while the straps on my airpack along with the protective clothing I'm wearing would literally disintegrate.
The way to be protected from a flashover is to jump out the nearest window or to use the axe you're carrying to make a hole in the exterior wall and dive through it. That's pretty much it. When it comes to flashover -- Don't be there. If you are there, get out. I've taken classes that involved practing the fine art of going out a second floor window head first onto a ladder and flipping over, or slamming an axe into a wall braced across the corner of a window, tieing off a big of rope to it and bailing out the window -- even if its just to hang 20 or 30 feet down from the room where the flashover is about to happen until someone gets around to moving a ladder to you.
Don't believe this crap that a little water held in that jacket is going to help.
Re:I am a firefighter - and I find this suspect. (Score:1)
You just need to add Iron Rations to the list of equipment, and you are ready to head off to the UnderDark.
Or perhaps, to go after Red Dragons.
hanging out a window (Score:1)
Funny you say that...my instructors covered that.. (Score:4, Funny)
a) the room is about to flashover
b) there is a news crew out side -- it looks GOOD on film.
Hopefully, it wont. It was expensive rope. (Score:2)
Re:I am a firefighter - and I find this suspect. (Score:5, Interesting)
You should know that there are modern methods of combating flash over. The first is to ventilate the structure and the second is to use short burst of spray from a 60 degree fog nozzle which cools the unburned particles of combustion (aka smoke) just enough to eliminate flashing but not so much that the smoke banks downward. The latter is known as the 'Swiss' method because it was developed by Swiss engineers and firefighters.
You should also know that leather boots are not recommended for structure firefighting by the NFPA. Your department should be wearing bunker boots, we wore Fire-Walker bunker boots made by Ranger Footwear, and Nomex pants jackets and hoods.
I don't know of a fire department anywhere that still wears 'traditional' firefighting helmets with leather ear protectors, except yours, I guess. Most department have been wearing composite helmets with face shields and Nomex ear protectors.
Everything I've described here is 'old' technology.
Oh, and sticking a pick-headed ax in a wall, tying a rope to it and jumping out a window to escape a flash over? Sounds like something someone pulled out of their ass.
By the way, over a 24 year period I was a Firefighter I, II, III, Firefighter/Paramedic, Fire Specialist, Fire Engineer and Engine Company Captain. I've been retired for 8 years.
RTFA -- it claims to protect you from flashover. (Score:5, Interesting)
The story (and Slashdot isn't the place I read it first -- I think Science Daily covered it earlier in the day) claims the suit will protect firefighters during flashover.
If you've cooled the overhead there IS NO flashover. If you've vented right, there is no flashover.
If someone doing a search gets too hot and decides to break a window before you're ready to vent -- you may set the stage for something that this suit is NOT going to help protect you from. THATS my point.
As to using a pick headed axe to get out? Putting the Axe across the corner of the window and using your own weight to hold it while you bail is a well known practice. I've done it in training, from a second floor, with a blindfold (and a safety line). I've done it over, and over, and over. I've done it using a figure 8 and my built in harness, and I've done it without a figure 8 just looping the rope around my back and using my gloved hands for the friction device.
On your last comment, my copy of the NFPA Essentials guide is 3 feet to my right.
moronic (Score:2, Insightful)
I wish I could share some video with you (Score:2)
In fact -- here is a picture, clearly showing it (Score:2)
http://www.thenorth.com.nyud.net:8090/nctpics.nsf/ html/tn_toolasanchor.jpg/$file/toolasanchor.jpg [nyud.net]
and the other things related ---
http://www.thenorth.com.nyud.net:8090/nctpics.nsf/ html/tn_bh-ladderbail.jpg/$file/bh-ladderbail.jpg [nyud.net]
http://www.thenorth.com.nyud.net:8090/nctpics.nsf/ html/tn_bh-ladderflip.jpg/$file/bh-ladderflip.jpg [nyud.net]
http://www.thenorth.com.nyud.net:8090/nctpics.nsf/ html/tn_bh-ladderbail.jpg/$file/bh-ladderbail.jpg [nyud.net]
FYI - the guy holding thd rope is FDNY if I recall (Score:2)
Re:I am a firefighter - and I find this suspect. (Score:2)
Actually, I'm required to know that... (Score:2)
Point is, however:
A) How much more do you think I can carry and still hope to pull someone else out? Water is HEAVY.
B) What good is a cool suit if the mask I'm wearing melts off my face?
Material science can be what it is -- but I still have to look out through the mask on my face. That presents a limit that is tough to beat. Until Scotty beams down
Re:Actually, I'm required to know that... (Score:2)
I think you are right, the problem in a fire is the radiant energy (hence the silver suits. Conduction (negligable) and convection (minor) can be handled by suitably foamly materials, but radiation will melt your mask in no time flat.
I guess you might be able to partially mirror the outside of the mask to help this.
Convection absolutely counts too... (Score:2)
Re:Convection absolutely counts too... (Score:2)
Doh! -- my mistake (Score:2)
- Superheated air & gasses from the source of the fire. The fire itself is (except on TV) usually in one place. We spend a lot of effort getting to the fire, crawling under hot gasses and smoke. We also spend a lot of effort doing searches in parts of the building not on fire but heavy with heat and smoke. I've been considering this convection.
- Heat radiated dire
Re:I am a firefighter - and I find this suspect. (Score:1)
Exactly how is it that this fancy jacket or undershirt is going to help me? I'm hot, but not so much that I can't make it through\nthe 20 minutes in there. When I come out, I am handed a 20oz bottle of water and expected to finish it on the spot while having my pulse and respiration checked before even considering going back in.
This jacket would supposedly protect me from flashover -- several thousand degrees where anything that can combust, will.
BULLSHIT.
Even if the jacket worked, my face
They aren't available yet?? (Score:1)
I'm a firefighter, and I hope this works (Score:4, Interesting)
There are a couple of major issues that this technology might address that would be helpful.
1) At hazmat incidents, turnout gear is frequently inappropriate. The people doing the hot zone work are in "level 1" suits, which are fully encapsulated. However, level 1 suits are HOT, and level 1 techs are hard to come by. This might make it easier for level 1 techs to stay in the hot zone for longer periods of time or perform more evolutions.
2) For my brother firefighter who pointed out that structural firefighting gear including nomex hoods provide inadequate protection for flashover (or getting steamed by the idiot outside who started squirting when we're inside), imagine having a level-1 type of setup for fighting fire. Your hands and head are no longer the most vulnerable because with this new technology your whole body is being cooled actively. I realize that level 1 is bulky and wouldn't be appropriate NOW, but if the technology is available someone will figure out a way...
3) Barn fires in August just KILL crews. If you're standing outside in the sun for any length of time in turnout gear, you get completely baked. This might make it easier for us to endure fires in summer.
4) Brush fires suck. SOG for departments that don't have nomex jumpers for fighting brush fires are to wear FF boots, turnout pants, and gloves. So you're slogging around through chest-high red brush getting cut to hell, a mile off the road, getting your ass kicked in your heavy gear, taking a shovel, axe, or if you're a rookie an Indian Can strapped to your back. Again, it doesn't take long to get overheated. Maybe not any longer.
I hope that the technology performs. I'm whipped.
When I first saw the story I thought... (Score:2)
Then I thought nah, I'd never believe I wouldn't be happy to see one of those for real.
War with these things *would not* be something to be happy about being anywhere near I'd imagine, though.
(Yes, I know about the one a guy was building in Alaska or something, not quite the same as a fusion-powered fully-functional example.)
Strat
In related news... (Score:2)
Yea, the gov't keeps axeing NASA's budget (not that gov't money is every actually spent in a wise or thrifty manner...you know $100 hammers). So while we appreciate things like this, and we take it for granted - make no doubt NASA has made many inventions that were adopted into our everyday lives:
Asbestos suits for firefighters
Water Filtration systems ("As used by astronauts")
Microwave technology (the cooking kind)
And I am sure some
scuba and rebreathers... (Score:2)
For the unfamiliar: these are the devices, that recycle your air with a "CO2 scrubber" substance, and work with very little additional gas consumption. (film where you can see some of these : The Cave)
if interested, also search for "Rebreathers" or a good guess is "dolphin rebreathers"
cheers