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Come the Revolution

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the up-against-the-wall dept.

165

GamesIndustry.biz has a piece looking at what game developers think will be required to ensure that Nintendo's Revolution doesn't go the way of the GameCube. From the article: "While this mutual exploitation between indies and Nintendo may grant the GameCube some stay of execution, the Kyoto giant's next home console will require a very different approach to marketing. Solid details about the Revolution remain sparse, yet Nintendo has stated it hopes to attract a different audience to the one being aggressively chased by Microsoft and Sony. This is the console that will support a back catalogue of twenty years' worth of Nintendo games, as well as new titles utilising the intriguing new controller."

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Older is better (4, Interesting)

From A Far Away Land (930780) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860463)

I'd actually consider buying a Nintendo platform that supports Gameboy and NES games as well as the new stuff. Either that, or gives owners a license to run an official NES emulator on their PC. Donkey Kong trumps new stuff any day.

Re:Older is better (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14860621)

Donkey Kong '94 maybe, but the original Donkey Kong is utter dreck. Until NES cartridge sizes reached 256k, games weren't worth playing (with a few exceptions, SMB, Zelda, and Metroid).

Re:Older is better (2, Interesting)

keyne9 (567528) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860935)

You mean like the Gameboy Player addition for the GCN? Given the Revolution's aim to be able to emulate many (or most) of the older games for their older systems, I suspect you won't have much of a problem with your desire.

Game Boy Player and Revolution Live Arcade (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 8 years ago | (#14863991)

You mean like the Gameboy Player addition for the GCN?

Yeah, but you'll probably still have to leave your GameCube hooked up, as the Revolution isn't expected to have the GameCube High Speed Port through which the Game Boy Player sends input, video, and audio data. In addition, a lot of Game Boy titles don't work on the Game Boy Player; most notably, these include 8-bit games that use an external keyboard, 8-bit games that use the early 4-player adapter, those that use a tilt sensor, sun sensor in the Game Pak, and a few titles that rely on FMV. Details in Game Boy Player@E2 [everything2.com] .

Given the Revolution's aim to be able to emulate many (or most) of the older games for their older systems, I suspect you won't have much of a problem with your desire.

For one thing, only NES, Super NES, and N64 were announced, not Nintendo arcade systems nor handheld systems, and even among those, only games published by Nintendo were announced, as Nintendo may be having trouble getting other publishers signed on to re-release their games on Revolution Live Arcade. And will I be able to play homebrew [pdroms.de] ?

Re:Older is better (1)

CSMastermind (847625) | more than 8 years ago | (#14863408)

From Nintendo:
"Decades of Games
Revolution will play all of your favorite Nintendo GameCube games, and deliver downloadable access to 20 years of fan-favorite titles originally released for Nintendo 64, the Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES) and even the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES)."
I would say that qualifies. Check it out at www.nintendo.com/revolution

Gamecube - premature death? (4, Informative)

r_jensen11 (598210) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860487)

As far as I know, the game cube is far from dead. In fact, my roommate and my neighbors have been playing Mario Kart Double Dash, Mario Tennis, Mario Party 4, and Super Smash Bros. until 3am a many of times....

Agree (4, Insightful)

w.p.richardson (218394) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860532)

My kids love the gamecube, and I can lord it over them as a not so veiled threat.

It's alive and kicking at my house. I do not plan to replace it anytime soon. We get a game maybe 2x per year. The games are fun for everyone to play, same as the older nintendo games.

Re:Agree (1)

fak3r (917687) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861198)

I hear ya, my 5 1/2 and 3 year olds love it; SSX Tricky/3/Tour, Mario Double Dash, Mario Party 7, Mario DDR, and most recently Super Mario Strikers - that's a game the whole fam (all 4 of us) can play together, and it's still challenging enough for me to take on my 5 1/2 year old one on one! It's a blast, viva la Gamecube!

Re:Agree (1)

FinestLittleSpace (719663) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861452)

Same. My 6 (nearly 7) year old boy absolutely loves the GC

Re:Agree (1)

lowmagnet (646428) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862718)

Does he remind you every day that he's "almost 7"? Remind him that he's "almost 30" when he turns 29 ;)

Re:Gamecube - premature death? (3, Interesting)

Fred Or Alive (738779) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860542)

Where are you?

I'm in the UK, and the article is pretty accurate, the 'Cube has dissapeared from most retailer's shelves (partly pushed out by the PSP, and ironically, the DS), and it's pretty much relegated to small amounts of shelf space in specialist games shops. I'm sure people get lots of play out of their 'Cubes, but Nintendo will probably have trouble selling more games and consoles when they can't pursuade shops to actually sell them.

Nintendo fans shouldn't worry totally, the cash cows of the Game Boy and DS are doing far better.

Re:Gamecube - premature death? (4, Informative)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860648)

All the retailers still have it in Canada. You can pick one up for $100, with a game you actually want to play, and 2 controllers. That's very tempting for some people, even those who don't game very much.

Re:Gamecube - premature death? (1)

MindStalker (22827) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860781)

Yea, I've been seriously considering picking one up latly, but the idea of buying one just to have it replaced by the revolution in a year sickens me... What to do what to do.. (a hundred is still a lot in my book)

Re:Gamecube - premature death? (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861197)

Pick up a used one for $50 at EB. Nintendo builds them like rocks. They don't die like XBox and PS2

Re:Gamecube - premature death? (1)

chrismcdirty (677039) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861465)

I've had two die in my house. But it could have been because they were played for at least 4 hours a day in a smoke-filled house. My best guess was the eye stopped reading the disc. IIRC, it was some disc read error on both of them. It's been about a year and half since it happened, though, so I don't remember all that well. But it was more than likely a user problem, and not a problem with the build.

Re:Gamecube - premature death? (1, Insightful)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861565)

The smoke filled house part probably did it for you.

Re:Gamecube - premature death? (1)

Anamanaman (97418) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862369)

I bought a used one and it stopped reading discs after a couple months. Cheap enough that I didnt care much and just bought another.

Bought a used xbox 2 years ago and it still works well.

I dont think anything about the cube makes it more or less reliable than other consoles.

Re:Gamecube - premature death? (1)

Prophet of Nixon (842081) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862517)

I dunno, my experience has been that Gamecubes and Xboxes don't break, and that PS2s, though they do break, are frequently trivial to repair. I'd rate them all about equal. I hate to say it but the only console that I've seen non-trivial hardware errors in for the past few years is the Dreamcast (particularly with audio), which is a shame since they're becoming hard to get. I have a whole spare one myself, should I ever need it.

Re:Gamecube - premature death? (1)

Corbu Mulak (931063) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862367)

Well, my Gamecube got pretty trashed traveling back from South Korea, but they also broke two of my dad's guitars and who knows what else. The light no longer works, the rumble only works in the last two spots, and the reset button doesn't work. All were fine when I got it on Christmas in Korea (my parents bought it in America, I'm pretty sure, before we went over there), but when we traveled back to our home in America the cube was pretty fucked up.

Still plays games, though. So that's good.

Re:Gamecube - premature death? (1)

Baki (72515) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861187)

in germany and switzerland all retailers still have it, with about equals shelf space than xbox and ps2.
i have a ps2 myself but my next one shall be a nintendo revolution i think.

Re:Gamecube - premature death? (1)

Lobo42 (723131) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861202)

To be fair, the UK and Australia/New Zealand rank among the worst territories for the 'Cube, if I'm not mistaken.

Re:Gamecube - premature death? (1)

CSMastermind (847625) | more than 8 years ago | (#14863446)

I'm in the USA - western PA right by Pittsburgh. All the stores here carry about the same amount of gamecubes as they do Xboxes and slightly less PS2. At least that's where I live. I own a gamecube and so do most of my freinds. The local cardshop has Super Smash Bros. tournies and that sort of thing. Nintendo is doing just fine around here.

Yes, dead as a platform (2, Insightful)

xswl0931 (562013) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860626)

Just because you continue to play old games on it, doesn't mean it isn't dead as a platform. There isn't much of anything being developed for the Gamecube at this time. Mine's been sitting the closet for over a year now. I'll probably bring it out to play the next Zelda, but that's about it. Double Dash came out 11/03 Mario Tennis came out 11/04 Mario Party 4 came out 10/02 Super Smash Bros came out 12/01 Saying the Gamecube is still alive is like saying the Atari 2600 is alive if I was still playing Adventure on it

Re:Yes, dead as a platform (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14860690)

No way the next Zelda gets delivered to the Gamecube. I don't care what anyone says, it's getting pushed back as a Revolution title, precisely for the reason you described: Gamecube, as a platform, is dead.

Re:Yes, dead as a platform (1)

DumbWhiteGuy777 (654327) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860709)

You should try Super Mario Strikers. It's a Mario soccer game and really easy to pick up and really intense. Very possibly the most intense Mario-themed game ever, IMHO.

Re:Yes, dead as a platform (3)

TheBlackSwordsman (870838) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862020)

Gee, I wasn't aware that there's been no good games released for the 'Cube since 2004. I guess that's because I'm currently enjoying Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance, Chibi-Robo, Killer 7, and Resident Evil 4 - all released within the last half year or so, give or take a few months in either direction.


Is development for the Gamecube slowing down? No question - it's slowing down for EVERY current-gen system. Does the PS2 trump the 'Cube in software library size? Yes, it does. But I don't get people who act like there are only 4 or 5 good games for the Gamecube and they're all several years old. I consider myself a pretty avid gamer, but by no means "hardcore", and I own about 40-50 titles for the system. There's probably at least 30 other GC games that I'd like to play at some point, but I'll probably never get around to it. Why? Because I can't even get through all the GC games I currently own!


No offense, but people with attitudes like yours are why many great games for the 'Cube bomb in terms of sales - Battalion Wars comes to mind - too many Gamecube owners won't touch a game that doesn't prominently feature Mario, Samus or Link. I love those series as much as the next Nintendo fanboy, but c'mon. Every example you listed is a friggin' Mario title. Try playing a game that isn't part of a Nintendo franchise sometime. There are plenty of them out there.


It's one thing if you want to argue that there aren't enough good shooters or RPGs for the Gamecube, or something like that. I'll listen to that, as long as you don't bring that tired "there are no mature games" garbage. But your post makes it sound as if you've played every single quality Gamecube title, of which there are only 4 or 5, and you have no other use for the system. If that's really the case, I feel sorry for ya, cuz you've missed out on some killer games.

Re:Yes, dead as a platform (2, Insightful)

Kuukai (865890) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862220)

The Dreamcast still has new games coming out for it. You tellin' me it's not dead?

Re:Yes, dead as a platform (2, Insightful)

AK__64 (740022) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862551)

Incorrect, sorry. Check out 1up.com, the 10th game on their hottest games of the now list is for the GCN. Get deeper in the section and you'll find lots more preiews and release dates. Maybe not on the same scale as the PS2, but still not bad for an older system.

Re:Gamecube - premature death? (2, Insightful)

Manmademan (952354) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860824)

you and your roomies are part of the problem. People who buy the cube tend to do so to pick up nintendo 1st party titles and ignore everything else, leading 3rd party developers to abandon the platform, or only give it token support. Right now there's a serious gap between the release of good software on the cube...5-6 months or more for "A" list titles. That's good if you want to play super smash brothers melee ad nauseum, but bad if you're craving something new.

Re:Gamecube - premature death? (1)

Hitto (913085) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861219)

Sorry, but gaming is a hobby that used to be not so expensive, but it now is. Every actor on the market is to blame.
There's one thing that I clamor for openly, and as a flashcart user : Nintendo needs to sell flash carts with a downloadable games system. Stick fifty games in the cart, no issue, put it in the GBA slot, and voilà. Nintendo's flashme system, with a nice, legal interface which would allow indies to develop tons of fun little games.

Hey, Ninty! We also code HOMEBREWS THAT KICK ASS, so stop treating us like thieves. We do try before we buy a bit, but come the fuck on. We have to GIVE OUR MONEY to people who aren't YOU. Think about it.

Nostalgia alert (4, Insightful)

Manmademan (952354) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861321)

Gaming is just as expensive now as it's ever been. The atari 2600 launched at $3-400 in the seventies. SNES carts like FFIII, Chrono Trigger, and The Seventh Saga (which SUCKED) made their debut at 74.99 and STAYED there. The concept of "greatest hits" titles didn't show up until the psx era...the $19.99 game is a VERY new thing, relatively speaking.

In regards to your "flash cart" idea..it's not bad but it's already being done one better. Xbox live arcade has good classic and independent games available for only a couple of bucks. You don't even need the hard drive, you can use the memory card. Nintendo is making their classic library available to download to the built in flash RAM on the Revolution. (prices haven't been announced but come on now, we're talking 15 year old ROM images here.)

combine this with a booming used games market and you have nothing to complain about. There's a good case to be made that 2006 is a cheapass gamer's wet dream.

Re:Nostalgia alert (1)

Anamanaman (97418) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862404)

I'm really looking forward to downloading old nes/snes games on the revolution but I have a suspicion they'll be charging 10-15 bucks each. It would be crazy given how easy it is to download an emulator and roms, but don't put it past them.

I'm really hoping for 99 cent game downloads, or maybe some kind of all you can eat monthly thing.

Re:Nostalgia alert (1)

SetupWeasel (54062) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862979)

Before they abandoned it, NES games were selling for the E-Reader for about $3 each. I have to believe that it will be less than that.

Re:Nostalgia alert (1)

Psx29 (538840) | more than 8 years ago | (#14864102)

SNES carts like FFIII, Chrono Trigger, and The Seventh Saga (which SUCKED) made their debut at 74.99 and STAYED there....

Well this was due to the fact that carts cost a shitload to make whereas CDs are dirt cheap.

Third party devs... (1)

nickyj (142376) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862358)

Yeah I'll admit that out of my 21 games only 7 are available on other platforms. Not all were dev-ed by N, but some were only for the GC and dev-ed by others. The reason? The other games suck. I don't even play them anymore. Here is the list of games I have and I'm sure you can guess which ones sucked:

Pikmin
Pikmin 2
Mario Golf
Mario Party 4
Metroid Prime
Super smash bros. melee
Eternal Darkness
Luigi's Mansion
Starfox Adventures
Sonic 2 (the shittiest game here)
F-Zero GX
NHL Hitz 2002
Prince of Persia
Extreme G3 Racing
Tetris Worlds
Star Wars Rogue Leader
Super Mario Sunshine (love this)
Super Monkey Ball 2
Dave Mirra Freestyle BMX 2
DJ Vandetta
Madden 2002

Re:Gamecube - premature death? (1)

damiangerous (218679) | more than 8 years ago | (#14863259)

People who buy the cube tend to do so to pick up nintendo 1st party titles and ignore everything else

That's because that's where Nintendo stands out. When I choose which platform to buy a game for I use basically two broad criteria. Cost and "experience" (platform fanboyism isn't one). If a game is cheaper for one of the platforms I'll get it for that one, unless it's significantly "less good" (such as no online). Cost being equal I'll then choose the game that gives me the best experience. This is subjective, of course, but I think in general the XBox gives the best overall experience. The graphics tend to be the best of the three and the online is undoubtedly best. Therefore, all else being equal I'll choose the XBox version, then the GC version (slightly better than the PS2 graphically and in load times), then the PS2 version. However, since hardly any games (are there any at all?) are GC/PS2 only I end up with the XBox version for the cross platforms, and the PS2 and GC versions for games exclusive to those platforms. (Of course, this is thrown off by games I got really cheap, but those tend to be PS2 versions). It ends up that the only reason I have Nintendo versions is because they're from when I only had a GC (it was my first current gen) or they're GC exclusives.

Re:Gamecube - premature death? (1)

wickedj (652189) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861069)

"As far as I know, the game cube is far from dead. In fact, my roommate and my neighbors have been playing Mario Kart Double Dash, Mario Tennis, Mario Party 4, and Super Smash Bros. until 3am a many of times...." And therein lies the problem. You are playing the same games over and over again. For the console to survive and grow, you need to purchase more games for the system. Don't get me wrong, I love Nintendo and they have great games. The fact is, sports titles and yearly releases saved the other systems from being last in the console arena because gamers constantly bought new versions of Madden or whatever. Nintendo puts out an awesome Mario game every few years. The same can be said for Zelda. The other issue is you are looking at first-party developed titles. Nintendo really needs to promote third-party development this time around. There were very few third party successes with the Game Cube. The only one that was really notable was Resident Evil 4. The other consoles are flooded with third-party titles. Sure most of them are dreck, but they still make money in the long run.

Re:Gamecube - premature death? (2, Interesting)

tekkou (944664) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861142)

I owned both the PS2 and the GameCube, and actually bought the typical 3rd party games (mostly EA games oddly enough) for the GameCube because the system had much better graphics. When the game producers stopped releasing multi-platform games on the Cube I just stopped buying that kind of game.

Basically I had the PS2 for the Metal Gear, Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy, and GTA franchises. The Cube is what I used for everything else.

Re:Gamecube - premature death? (1)

miyako (632510) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862632)

I have a PS2 and a Gamecube, and there were a few multiplatform games that I got on the GC because the graphics are nicer, but for the most part I found myself picking up multiplatform titles for the PS2 because most games did not use the GC controller very well.
I think that the Revolution will suffer from this even more than the GC did. The GC controller wasn't bad, and I think was the most comfortable of the controllers for this generation if you were playing a game designed for it, but it was just different enough from the PS2 controller that a lot of games were not comfortable to play it with (The best two examples I can think of would be the Tony Hawk games and Soul Caliber II).

Re:Gamecube - premature death? (1)

Darth Maul (19860) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861414)

I just picked up that Chibi-Robo game. It's a lot of fun, and well-made. I would put this game in my top-five list of games for the system, and it was just released like a month ago!

Go where? (5, Insightful)

Locdonan (804414) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860510)

to ensure that Nintendo's Revolution doesn't go the way of the GameCube.

You mean, make a profit from the start, build a good base of great games, and offer a wide range of stellar games? They make money, have a good base of people, and offer the best multiplayer on 1 system without falling short. Games are smooth are intriguing. I have no intention of buying a $400-500 system.

My money is going to Nintendo, espically for castlavania, Smash Bros, Mario, Zelda, Golf, Baseball, and all the party games. Rock on Nintendo.

Re:Go where? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14860617)

Agree 100%. Can't we just mod the article "-1, Troll"?

Re:Go where? (1)

Fred Or Alive (738779) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860875)

What for? For saying the Gamecube flopped in the UK (which it has), and that Nintendo may have trouble pursuading retailers to push the Revolution becuase of it?

The Gamecube may have great games, but it appears to UK gamer would much rather buy PlayStation 2 or Xbox stuff instead. People do note the Japanese like different games to the US, so it's obvious that the UK is going to have different tastes to the US, and that includes less of a love for Nintendo.

I should note things like Eye Toy and other PS2 party games (including quite a few from Sony themselves) seem to do reasonabley well in the UK, so the Revolution may have some hope in the "casual gamer" field. The DS is doing well as well, but AFAIK the PSP is doing better in the UK than elsewhere.

Re:Go where? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14862015)

If I were Nintendo I'd cut off the UK anyway. You guys are less than worthless, and nobody cares about your tea OR your crumpets!

Also, it goes to show that if the eyetoy is doing good in the UK, then apparently you people don't know what a good game is.

Re:Go where? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14860643)

No offense, but there hasn't been a killer game on the GameCube for about a year now (since Resident Evil 4). I can admit this as a Nintendo fanboy. This is because Nintendo alienated 3rd party developers during this console generation.

That being said, there are a lot of good games for the Cube that I haven't played yet, and most are in the used/discount bins by now, so they're cheap (Metroid Prime 2, Eternal Darkness, SC2, Paper Mario, etc).

Hopefully Nintendo doesn't drive developers away for the last two years of the Revolution's lifespan.

Re:Go where? (4, Interesting)

tukkayoot (528280) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860906)

"The way of the GameCube" likely refers to the plumetting number of consoles sold. The NES sold 60 million units. SNES sold 49 million. N64 sold 32 million. The GameCube has sold about 21 million. Not a good trend for Nintendo, regardless of how profitable they are.

If the Revolution sells fewer units than the GameCube, it's going to be hard for anybody, even Nintendo fanboys and Nintendo themselves to see that as anything but a failure. As the article explains, they need move beyond their niche appeal and break into the mainstream somehow if they don't want their home console business to sink into the abyss. If the rate of decline of sales in this generation doesn't improve from the last generation, the Revolution will barely sell more units than the Dreamcast.

I personally think Nintendo will recover in this generation, though. That's what I'm hoping, anyway. The 360 launch debacle and the PS3 delay certainly can't hurt. Nintendo is in a position to pull off a huge upset if things fall into place.

Re:Go where? (4, Insightful)

MaineCoon (12585) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861591)

Those numbers, if correct, are somewhat interesting when you consider the competition each console was up against:

NES - practically no competition. 60 million units
SNES - competition was the Genesis, which did somewhat weakly. 49 million units, still not bad.
N64 - up against the PSX. 32 million units is still pretty strong sales considering what it was up against
GameCube - 21 million. Up against the PS2 and Xbox.

While using the 60 million as a baseline for future sales is bad metrics, it puts things into perspective when you consider the competition each iteration of Nintendo hardware was up against. The N64 sells half as many units as the NES, but unlike the NES has strong competition to go against. GameCube has 2 strong consoles to compete against, and sells 1/3 as many units.

Competition (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14862391)

But Sony managed to sell 100 million Playstations and 100 million playstation 2s in the same competitive environment.

if 60 million is the baseline, and nintendo splits the 60 million with sony and microsoft,then your arguemnt would make sense, that it loses consoles when there's more competition., but that's not true.

Re:Go where? (2, Insightful)

Darth (29071) | more than 8 years ago | (#14863205)

The problem is that the market wasnt static during that time. The market grew dramatically. And while the market's size was increasing, Nintendo's userbase was shrinking. They not only failed grow their segment of the market, their installed base was eaten away by their competitors.

I'm not going to sound the death knell for Nintendo, but when your installed base decreases while your potential market increases, there's no way to make that look positive.

Re:Go where? (1)

inerte (452992) | more than 8 years ago | (#14863924)

Not interesting, in fact it they show how Nintendo went from 1st to 3rd.

Don't get me wrong, I am a Nintendo fanboy. But they don't sell as well as Sony or MS. That's a fact... the competition is there, but the same is true for the competition too.

PS2 sold 100 million consoles worldwide, and it had competitors. Why is it interesting the Cube sales? They aren't, and they sucked. Yeah, yeah, profit and all that, but you shouldn't talk about market share this way. Can't fool the numbers :)

Re:Go where? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14860985)

I love Nintendo games. Their back catalog is far and away the best of any developer. Their games weren't just good, they had a timeless quality. They are a top quality developer all the way to this day too. Still, you gotta be realistic here.

Nintendo's real success has been in software, not hardware. In hardware they had a near monopoly 15 years ago and it has been in free fall decline. They've gone from first place by far to niche player in the market. The N64 and Gamecube both completely missed the market, and both survived on the Nintendo brand alone.

You say they are profitable, and that's great. I'd ask how could they not be? They have intellectual property that should let them mint their own money. Again, all from software or IP, while the hardware is what drags. Imagine the sales numbers if they sold Zelda, Pokemon and Mario games on the Playstation and xbox.

We'll see what happens with this Revolution console, but my very-early prediction is a disaster.

Re:Go where? (1)

suspected (907639) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862488)

>>You say they are profitable, and that's great. >>I'd ask how could they not be? Answer: see xbox and xbox360

How does the Gamecube misses? (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 8 years ago | (#14863282)

Ok, the N64 I can understand since it didn't used CD-roms and where more expensive to release games for and therefor they lost third party titles. But the Gamecube? What is really wrong with it? It's better than the PS2 for a cheaper price, the controller feels good. What is wrong? Lack of DVD-player?

Re:Go where? (2)

killmenow (184444) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861090)

I must admit: I am rooting for Nintendo nowadays too. I was never a huge fan of Nintendo (although I enjoyed the original Metroid and Mario Brothers games). But I've jumped on their bandwagon.

In fact, this past Christmas, I could've bought an Xbox 360 but instead I asked my wife for a Game Cube and Metroid Prime 2. I've been playing it since, am 90% through the game and I *love* it. And it only cost $120 (GC plus MP2) and came with another game. We have a few games for it that we all enjoy, bought Animal Crossing even though it's old now, and both my 8 yr old and 14 yr old love it. The GC is a great little console. It's the first console I've ever allowed on my primary TV. Our original PS2, PS1, Sega Genesis, etc. have all been relegated to the small TV in the den. But the GC gets front and center on the big TV in the great room and it shines there.

My gut tells me the Revolution will be a great console. I trust my gut.

Please give me a list (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 8 years ago | (#14863251)

Ok, I know about mario kart, smash brothers and mario party. But what more good games are there? Give a list.

Metroid Prime I and II
Zelda windwaker
Prince of persia: The two thrones
Worms 3D
Super Mario Strikers ... ?

My $.02 (5, Interesting)

tekkou (944664) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860599)

My opinion on this latest generation of video game systems is that MS and Sony may be trying to cram too much into a system. These things are supposed to play games first, everything else 2nd. Yes it's nice that I could use my PS2 as a DVD player along with playing games, but it wasn't a great DVD player, and when I had the money I bought one to take that function's place.

I'm very happy that Nintendo is willing to take a gamble and keep with their trend of making GAME systems. One only has to compare the DS with the PSP to find that a GAME system is what more people want. Yes there are people that like the PSP for all its media functionality, but should that be in a game system? Why not just buy a PDA for that? You'd have the ability to view a wider range of media in that case .

When I first heard about how Nintendo was planning on this new controller idea, having the back catalog of games, and keeping it just a game system I knew I wanted one. Nintendo has always been more focused on gameplay I feel. I did own a GameCube, and the Nintendo franchise game validated the purchase. I only wish I still had it for the upcoming Zelda game.

Personally I think that MS jumped the gun a bit with the 360. As has been mentioned countless times prior, it isn't much of an improvement over the previous XBox. I have a feeling that the PS3 might get pigeonholed into that same category (though I still will likely get one for Metal Gear, Gran Turismo, and other PS only series), but the Revolution is the one thing that I'm truly waiting for because it's the only one to promise doing something new and different.

Re:My $.02 (1)

windex (92715) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860734)

The problem with the PSP is not the people who like it for its media functionality, it's all the people like me who are stuck with Sony's poor game lineup and only using their $300 PSP to play media.

That should say a lot about the PSP to Sony, but they don't listen well. Instead we get more DRM enabling happiness and a web browser.

Re:My $.02 (1)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862633)

Maybe that'll teach you to stop buying Sony's shit, which is a lesson I learned a long time ago.

Re:My $.02 (1)

Hawkxor (693408) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860749)

Apple did a good job with this by first positioning their video iPod as strictly an old-school ipod mp3 player, which just happened to play video - so that consumers didn't feel like they were buying something and paying for features they wouldn't need or for an audio/video player that did neither well. Now that people have seen how well playing video on the machine works, they should be fine if they want to release a media device targeted mainly towards video. On the other hand, Sony made a big deal about their (proprietory) video playing capabilities in the PSP.

The PS3's hardware is nothing to sniff at (1)

loqi (754476) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860957)

Although I freely admit I'm an avid Nintendo fanboy, I must say I'm excited to see what games will be doing with the Cell processor on the PS3 a few years from now. That thing really does fly if you've got a dedicated enough (read: well-paid and not too rushed) development team. AFAIK, games on any platform still have yet to incorporate large-scale AI, the kind that would make vaguely realistic simulations of a downtown environment possible (no, GTA: Geographical Location still doesn't come close).

That said, the Revolution is still the only "sure thing" next-gen system, in my book. I have a gaming-capable PC, so consoles need to offer something more/different.

Re:The PS3's hardware is nothing to sniff at (1)

Cadallin (863437) | more than 8 years ago | (#14863356)

It flies at churning through specially tuned, non-interactive demos. However, the Cell is a dog at GENERAL computing tasks (and it's DSPs don't have sufficient precision for it to be good at scientific tasks) It's running a stripped down POWER chip that's the equivalent of a 604e with a longer pipeline, it's overclocked 1995 technology. Nobody has yet to come up with a way to turn standard game code into 9-way SMP DSP code, and I'll wager that nobody will, given other limitations of the way the DSPs can access memory external to their own (very small) cache.

The cell is another Graphics Synth, a heavily hyped custom chip, that when it comes right down to it, can't even compete with the more standard commodity hardware it's supposed to "blow away." The X-box 360, with its three overclocked 604e's will clearly outperform the Cell in every real world application.

Here's to hoping the Revolution uses a G5 based chip and not one or two PPE's. A single G5 running at half the clock speed would stomp all the other consoles.

Re:The PS3's hardware is nothing to sniff at (1)

loqi (754476) | more than 8 years ago | (#14863610)

However, the Cell is a dog at GENERAL computing tasks

Gee, good thing it's not a desktop CPU.

Nobody has yet to come up with a way to turn standard game code into 9-way SMP DSP code.

A) There's been no incentive to make "standard game code" run on an architecture like the Cell... because no previous consoles utilized such architectures.
B) I'm not particularly even talking about "standard game code". I really don't care if FIFA '07 or CS: Binary or whatever runs well on the Cell. I'm excited by the possibilities opened up by the sheer number-crunching power available. If a single game puts it to good use and does something that was otherwise impossible, I'll be happy... because I could have played the rest of those games on my PC, running "commodity hardware".

The X-box 360, with its three overclocked 604e's will clearly outperform the Cell in every real world application.

"Real world application"?! We're not talking about the Cell running Word, it was always marketed as a special-purpose chip. Theoretical performance is actually a factor here.

Re:My $.02 (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860958)

You misunderstand the Xbox 360. It isn't designed to be a game platform, it is designed to be a client for Microsoft Media Center that also plays games... sort of a stealth aproach to getting Microsoft into to livingroom so that MS controls your media experience. Likewise, the Cell processor in the PS3 is designed to be best at streaming audio and video, NOT for playing games. Both these boxes are designed for the coming "digital convergence" that will be happening, uh, "real soon now!" Oviously MS and Sony aren't targetting just the game market. As a side note, I used my PS2 much more often as a DVD player than as a game system.

Re:My $.02 (1)

Anamanaman (97418) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861242)

The 360 has media center functionality that works with the .01% of people who have working media center pcs.

Dude, its a game console. Designed for games, not a media center.

So far the games are pretty slick. Play Kameo for a half hour and you'll be hooked.

Re:My $.02 (1)

JWW (79176) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861270)

Both these boxes are designed for the coming "digital convergence" that will be happening, uh, "real soon now!"

Yeah, you may be right, but in that case they're competing with the Mac mini and the ipod. For digital convergance Apple is the one ahead of the game there.

Re:My $.02 (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862664)

Agreed. The new Mac Mini is also designed to play nicely as a set top box, although I beleive it requires an add-on converter for the video out.

Re:My $.02 (1)

monopole (44023) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862290)

The sad thing is that the DS (or even better the micro) equipped with a Play Yan cartridge beats out the PSP in terms of battery life, ruggedness and portability for video playback.

The elephant in the room (5, Funny)

Thad Boyd (880932) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860857)

Titles such as Black, TOCA Race Driver 3 and FIFA Street 2 should ensure the Xbox and PlayStation 2 remain comfortable under consumers' TV sets for the rest of the year. At least, that's the case for the two leaders of the pack - but a browse around retail outlets will reveal little in the way of software or hardware support for Nintendo's GameCube.
Seems like Nintendo had some kind of game coming in the fall though...jeez, what was it called? The Legend of something or other.

Re:The elephant in the room (1)

Fred Or Alive (738779) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860932)

And what's coming out in the next six months that'll keep what little shelf space the Gamecube has left in the UK? Apart from Zelda, the release schedule seems rather barren.

Re:The elephant in the room (1)

tukkayoot (528280) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861192)

Seems like Nintendo had some kind of game coming in the fall though...jeez, what was it called? The Legend of something or other.

That was my initial thought as well, but guess what else is scheduled for a fall release? That's right, the Nintendo Revolution. So the Twilight Princess isn't exactly going to be the game that is going to hold us over until the release of the Revolution. If anything it may be the first game we play on the Revolution. It's the GameCube's swan song, or the Revolution's fanfare ... probably not the GameCube's savior or life support mechanism.

Re:The elephant in the room (1)

FloodSpectre (745213) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862549)

"Black, TOCA Race Driver 3 and FIFA Street 2"..

Hm, generic shooter whose only redeeming quality would be graphics, and two sports sequels. So impressed am I, watch me do a jig !

The Revolution will be great (2, Interesting)

jshackles (957031) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860911)

The one feature of the Revolution I'm looking forward to is the back catalog / download ability that (if done correctly) should be like xbox live arcade on crack.

Yes, my xbox can play every NES, SNES, Gameboy, and N64 game. I hate that the only options I have to play a lot of these games is to buy the system / games used on eBay which in no way rewards the original developers.

Plus it would be cool if they add online functionality to games. Anyone up for an online game of Goldeneye?

Re:The Revolution will be great (2, Interesting)

pluke (801200) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861063)

I'm just looking forward to a proper emulation of the N64, the xbox versions have a long way to go yet for many games i love - eg blast corps

Re:The Revolution will be great (1)

I(rispee_I(reme (310391) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862504)

You have been befriended due to you sig.
Btw, it is misquoted. Due to slashdot's truncation, I presume?

Money Talks. (2, Interesting)

ucaledek (887701) | more than 8 years ago | (#14860993)

Let's not forget in the midst of all this next-gen marketing: Not everyone has HD. I don't care how much saturation of the market people expect hi-def to get in the next 5 years. Plenty of people still can't use this feature that Sony and Microsoft have as an "edge" over Nintendo. It's been said before, but if you're not a person salivating over the latest HDTV's to come out, you're probably not going to want drop $1000 for a new console and enough games to make it worthwile (and only 10 games or so for Xbox360, maybe half that with these rumors about PS3). I know that of all the consoles, Revolution is the only one reasonably in my price range (grad student!). Even if in this generation I buy an HD set, I still won't buy either of the other two until then, when presumably the prices will have already dropped alot (meaning even worse losses for Sony and Microsoft). And my brother got a PS2 before I bought a DVD player. I waited 8 months or so, and for half the price of the PS2, I got a DVD player that didn't suck like the PS2. Why shouldn't I expect the same this time around? However Blu-ray/HDDVD falls, there will have to be players not half-assedly attached to a game console. And even though Nintendo seems stuck in the same pattern as the other two when it comes to a glut of sequels, there is still plenty of innovation in their first party franchises. Zelda has always differed greatly between games both in style and gameplay. Hell, me and my roommate still play,frequently, MarioKart 64 over the Xbox games he has.

Re:Money Talks. (1)

(A)*(B)!0_- (888552) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861237)

"meaning even worse losses for Sony and Microsoft"
The cost to manufacture consoles goes down more rapidly than the retail price cuts you will see.

Re:Money Talks. (1)

Tadrith (557354) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861746)

I agree that HD shouldn't be considered a huge selling point, because a huge number of perfectly ordinary TV sets are out there. However, I think it would be a huge mistake to ignore it, as well. The same people that buy HDTVs tend to also have a great deal of disposable income as well, and are probably more likely to go out and buy the system.

There are some HDTVs that can display a low resolution picture and it looks just fine, but there are also some HDTVs (LCD) that are at a set resolution. Have you ever seen the GameCube or PS2 in non-progressive scan mode on a TV like that? It looks really awful. Not supporting HD at all means possibly driving some of these people away, and that's not a good thing either.

They don't even have to push it. Just make it so their games can run in higher resolution modes so that the TV doesn't have to make up for it. Computer games have seemingly done this for ages, supporting far more resolutions than the console has to.

go way of the gamecube? (3, Insightful)

Frag-A-Muffin (5490) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861011)

... required to ensure that Nintendo's Revolution doesn't go the way of the GameCube ...

ummm what would that be? out selling the xbox 360? :) In japan anyways :)

I'm not even joking or pulling numbers out of my arse or anything, just look here [dsfanboy.com] and see for yourself. The GameCube is outselling the xbox360 in Japan.

Re:go way of the gamecube? (1)

Fred Or Alive (738779) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861096)

Seeing as this article is talking about the UK, I wonder if the Xbox 360 is outselling the Gamecube here. :-)

Although the Gamecube hasn't done as badly as the Xbox did in Japan, it kinda ran out of steam a couple of years ago, and has been in a decline ever since.

Re:go way of the gamecube? (1)

Anamanaman (97418) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861127)

Nintendo has a pretty strong brand in Japan. I'm not sure thats a great example of it beating out its competition on merits alone.

Re:go way of the gamecube? (1)

LordKronos (470910) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861505)

But at the same time, the XBOX 360 is about 4 months old, whereas the GameCube is 4 (or is it 5) YEARS old.

Re:go way of the gamecube? (1)

Anamanaman (97418) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861896)

A valid comparison would be gamecube launch vs xbox 360s

This article (written by a pronintendo blog) indicates that early gamecube sales werent that great.
http://www.gamecubicle.com/specials-gamecube_sales _north_america_2001.htm [gamecubicle.com]

As compared to Xbox360 in USA where at bestbuy, people lined up at 5pm saturday for a sunday morning shipment...

Re:go way of the gamecube? (1)

LordKronos (470910) | more than 8 years ago | (#14863206)

Of course they lined up. There were only a handful of systems being shipped to each store and no hope of more anytime in the near future.

When my favorite band's CD comes out, I'm generally not worried about it selling out, so I just go pick it up at my convenience. When my favorite band comes around in concert, there are limited tickets, so I generally line up for it (well...except that ticketbastard has pretty much killed that option off, with their presale BS and random line shuffling BS, but now I'm off topic...the point is, whenever possible, that's what I do).

So is... (2, Insightful)

FluffyWithTeeth (890188) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861137)

Dude, dead ferrets are outselling the Xbox in Japan. That's not even live ferrets! Well, the ferret trade is reasonably steady, actually. But nonetheless...

I had a point somewhere...

Well.. uh.. the GPX2 is probably outselling the Xbox as well..

Nintedo Dojo (2, Interesting)

Brothernone (928252) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861163)

You know what.. i'd like to see any other platform IN HISTORY have the love and memmories of as many gamers as Nintendo. They were there from the start, they continued to kick ass, and here is is 2k6 and they're still whompin tall and proud. Is there a person on the planet that doesn't remember playing a zelda game for the first time... i can even tell you who the freinds were that helped me figure it out as we all went through it. All this talk of Nintendo being in trouble is sad. I'll sum it up with a challange. If there is any system that thinks it's got a bigger fan base than Nintendo.. Let them show up to the dojo and we'll fight this thing out 8 bit style.

Re:Nintedo Dojo (1, Interesting)

radish (98371) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861875)

Is there a person on the planet that doesn't remember playing a zelda game for the first time

I'm 30 years old, I've been gaming for over 20 of those years, I own every current (xbox360) and previous generation console (NGC, PS2, Xbox) and I've never played a Zelda game. Ever. I'm sure they're great, and lots of people seem to love them, which is nice, but they just don't appeal to me. When I was younger I didn't have a NES or SNES - in fact, Nintendo seemed to have very little penetration in my locale - everyone I knew had Sega Master System, then MegaDrive and then jumped ship to PSX/PS2. Until recently I was more of a computer gamer anyway - through the 8-bits then Atari and finally PC.

The point of all this? Don't over generalise. Your experiences are very unlikely to be shared by even a small percentage of the overall population.

Re:Nintedo Dojo (1)

suspected (907639) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862578)

I pity you so much. Poor child, you don't even know what a quality game is.

>>The point of all this? Don't over generalise. Your experiences are very unlikely to be shared by even a small percentage of the overall population.

Sale figures back up his assumption that those who have played games during the early 90s have most likely played Zelda. Sorry, but you are in the minority.

Re:Nintedo Dojo (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862878)

There's also more than a little positive feedback happening, as Slashdot is probably the most pro-Nintendo gaming forums on the entire internet, unless Nintendo.com happens to have forums.

For the record, the only Zelda game I could get into was Zelda II. Zelda I, and maybe I'm a total wuss, didn't ramp up the difficulty smoothly... it seemed like I was doing pretty good then I get to a part and bam, dead, bam, dead. (Of course the end castle in Zelda II is about the hardest thing EVER, but other than that it was good.)

Marketing the Revolution (2, Insightful)

lpangelrob (714473) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861596)

You know, that was a pretty good article. We could use more of those every day. Something that doesn't give the same old "The Revolution will rule!" or "OMG the controller!" takes.

That said, I can kind of see the marketing problems that Nintendo will have to overcome, but I don't think it'll be that bad. One TV, one Revolution hooked up to the Internet, one or two controllers. Demo three launch games that make the most use of the fact that the controller is the way it is (I dunno, Pilotwings, Zelda and Super Duper Duck Hunt come to mind) and demo 10 downloadable games from past generations. Then stick a sign next to it saying you can play all 2,000 Nintendo games... ever.

Then make it look pretty. Can't be that hard, but you are relying on the open-mindedness of the consumer to this whole concept. Alternatively, open up Nintendo Stores, a la the Apple Store concept of three (or so) years ago... (keeping in mind that Sony [sonystyle.com] has already done it, to less effect)

My take on it (5, Insightful)

danpsmith (922127) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861664)

What's funny is I bought an N64 years ago, and I was pretty thoroughly disatisfied with the quality of the games for my age group. At the time I guess I was really into violent games and what have you. I loved Goldeneye and Zelda and Mario 64 but the rest just seemed too kiddish for me. I also didn't like how staying with cartridges seemed to chase out some third parties.

Now I'm a bit older, and as I play most new games I'm starting to realize they are striving for graphics over gameplay, and that the control design isn't even on their mind anymore. A FPS controlled with both thumbs at the same time isn't my idea of fun or interesting design. Consoles have come to be FPS machines as much as computers, except with mouselook it's easier to control. And the day I buy a mouse and keyboard for a console game is the day I stop playing console games.

Nintendo, doesn't seem to be focused on gearing things to adults. Which, at times can make you feel like a stupid man playing a kid's game. However, at least they try to innovate. Sony was more than happy to have everyone controlling 3d games using a d-pad until the N64 came out. Some of the best strategies for controlling 3d on a console were developed by Nintendo.

And now, I find myself looking at a market gone haywire. I skipped the xbox, PS2, and gamecube generation of consoles because I felt I had been burned so badly on having to buy both N64 and playstation to get my fix. And now, the price of consoles has gone up to an exorbant amount and every console maker seems intent on making a living room computer instead of a gaming system that would be fun to play with friends. But I already have a computer. I don't want to spend 500 bucks on something that plays FPS already played better on my computer. I want a console that will be fun, innovative, with games that look and feel different from the last 5 years of gaming. In short, I want a change from this MS/Sony norm, I want revolution.

While the other console makers are busy putting in every last doodad, into what will still simply be a game console to the public, and charging 5000 bucks for it. Nintendo slides in with a unique design, promises innovation and a developer platform for 1000, console at 150, you have to love that.

After all these years I'm thinking of doing what I thought I would never do again. I'm thinking of going back to the land from which classic console games came...Go revolution!

Re:My take on it (1)

ProppaT (557551) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861754)

The problem with the N64 wasn't lack of focus on adult titles, it was lack of support in general. The cartridge format wasn't embraced by the development community and, although the N64 was the easier console to code for of it's generation, it was the most expensive to publish for and had relatively low revenue because the console wasn't supported because the format wasn't embraced, violent circle, etc. etc.

The Gamecube, IMO, largely fixed this problem. There were kid games, there were adult games, and there were fun games for gamers of all ages. I think there's a general misunderstanding that games that aren't innately designed specifically for an adult audience are automatically designated as kids games. People see black and white but no grey.

The Rev will probably continue this and focus primarily on games that all can enjoy that aren't realistic or violent. As far as I'm concerned that's a.o.k....if I want super realism, I'll walk outside...and extreme violence has never made a game anymore enjoyable for me.

Go Rev!

Re:My take on it (5, Insightful)

G-funk (22712) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862734)

Nintendo is interested in selling games to adults. And kids. And girls.

The only people who are worried about only playing "mature adult games" are 17 year old boys. Now the 17 year old boy market isn't going to disappear, as there'll always be more of them. But they're all going to grow up, and some of them are even going to get married and have kids. Then they'll be shopping for games one day at the age of 25, and realise "Madden 2008" and "Super dethkill 7" are kinda... boring. And they'll pick up a Revolution. Nintendo will make a profit on every one sold, Joe six-pack will get games he can play with his family, and he'll have an extra $200 to spend on beer / his kids / buying his missus the $50 present once a year on valentine's day for a little play.

Sony and Microsoft will continue to "have the most successful consoles", and be super-1337, and losing money hand-over-fist. Who cares?

I'll be at home playing Zelda.

Ignore the Games and focus on Features (2, Funny)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 8 years ago | (#14861729)

Because, as we all know, having really cool games that are fun to play is less important than having 200 versions of football games which simulate raindrops spattering off the helmets of the football players and audio surround-sound of their breathing.

After all, it's always true that following the true path:

1. make FPS or Sport Game with little or no story line
2. put it on a console that you lose money on
3. expect people to buy lots of games, like say Final Fantasy I to XII.
4. Profit! ... now if I could only find the sarcasm key on my keyboard ...

Nintendo Lovefest (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14862533)

Why are all these comments about how great Nintendo is modded up? They don't actually have anything to say except that they love Nintendo and will keep buying their products regardless of quality.

Re:Nintendo Lovefest (1)

suspected (907639) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862630)

You reading comprehension is disturbed by a fog of bias.

Re:Nintendo Lovefest (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14863311)

I suspect you is wrong.

Re:Nintendo Lovefest (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14863325)

You missed the joke

Great advertising! (1)

xwizbt (513040) | more than 8 years ago | (#14862918)

But this is fantastic! Surely?

You're telling me the odd place is selling a Nintendo console designed to rival the PS2 is now available for about thirty-five quid, and games are changing hands for ridiculously cheap quantities?

The article mentions Game, along with HMV and other major retailers. Woolworths? When was the last time I stepped into one of these?

Let's put it together - cheap consoles, second hand. Cheap games, second hand. Sounds fun to me. I'm on the lookout.

Get a used console (1)

RudyValencia (728937) | more than 8 years ago | (#14864118)

I agree - used consoles are seriously one of the best (and cheapest) ways to get the latest in gaming - most of the time you'll get a slightly used, working PS2 / Cube / XBox but only if you know where to shop.
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