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Female Gamers Duke It Out

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the hey-do-exist dept.

91

It's March, and that means that Women's History Month has rolled around again. The latest event put on by 'Women in Games International' was held in February; Both Wired and Gamasutra have rundowns on the event. Wired's coverage highlights the two camps of female gamers, the 'Frag Dolls' and the 'Casual Gamers' that populated the event. Gamasutra's piece discusses the exploration of women in all gamer roles. That, indeed, was the focus of the event: Women as players, designers, and gamers. From that article: "Margaret Wallace (Skunk Studios), also on the panel, railed against the industry for disenfranchising women. 'There's a push against women gamers from within the game industry,' she said. Games have been made 'with puke-humor' thought to be edgy, she said, wondering why developers don't see the direct correlation between the 'sophomoric' humor put into the games and women not liking them. 'They treat women as a mysterious nut to crack.' Wallace's advice: 'Make a game mechanic accessible.'" GameSetWatch also a blog post linking to some advice for female FPS players, especially 'aggressive young girls'.

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Obligatory (-1, Troll)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 8 years ago | (#14868868)

Are there hot grits involved?

Re:Obligatory (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875938)

Plenty of grits on SNL this weekend.

-Eric

women... cat fight? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14868892)

ob Seinfeld:

Elaine: Ok, why? Why do guys do this? What is so appealing to men about a cat fight?
Kramer: Yeye cat fight!
Jerry: Because men think if women are grabbing and clawing at each other there's a chance they might somehow kiss.

Re:women... cat fight? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14868993)

Dumbass Jerry.

It's 'cos clothes might get torn off, exposing boobies.

Re:women... cat fight? (1)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869303)

It's 'cos clothes might get torn off, exposing boobies.

Trust me, there's nothing sexual in an angry woman. Not even with her body exposed. It'd look like some kind of monster... *shudder*

Re:women... cat fight? (1)

Worminater (600129) | more than 8 years ago | (#14870594)

violent angry drunken sex though... that can be entertaining at times...

Re:women... cat fight? (1)

Ykant (318168) | more than 8 years ago | (#14870664)

"Nothing sexual in an angry woman..." Interesting point. When I heard Charlize Theron was going to do a nude scene in Monster, I was less apprehensive about seeing the film. Then I saw the film. Indeed, there was nothing sexual about it. Either she's a very good method actress, or she looks absolutely horrible nude.

Re:women... cat fight? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14869434)

...there's a chance they might somehow kiss.

Female gamers dyke it out?

"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (1, Insightful)

XanC (644172) | more than 8 years ago | (#14868935)

Of course! Game developers (and most of the /. crowd) can't figure out women. Expecting them to be able to write a realistic female character doesn't make sense. It's like expecting to see a conservative realistically portrayed on TV or in the movies.

Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (2, Insightful)

Meagermanx (768421) | more than 8 years ago | (#14868982)

Yeah, but women just complain about it, instead of trying to get into the games industry. Women who complain because male game designers make games that they think are fun, instead of pandering to an audience they don't understand, are dumb. As bad as the people who complain about too much violence in video games, and the people who complain about the lack of innovation.
Get off your asses and do something, or don't complain.

Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (1)

Saige (53303) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869377)

What, you think that none of us are bothering to try and get involved in the industry? I can tell you for a fact that's not the case!

Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (1)

Meagermanx (768421) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869821)

Hey, I'm not stopping you! I hope more women get into game development, I just hate it when women criticize the games that guys find fun for not appealing to them. If women want to play games targetted at them, they should make their own, instead of relying on a community infamously bad around women to make games they're going to enjoy. People who don't like comic books should draw their own, gamers who think games aren't innovative should create their own, people who think movies are too violent should film their own, if football's to dumb for you (I don't like it, personally), then go ahead and make your own sport up, and women who don't like games should program their own.
Nothing's stopping you from making a proof-of-concept of a game that's "easy to pick up and play for short periods of time, easy to learn, involves community interaction," and whetever else so-called experts say women want in games.

Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14869889)

And movie critics should make their own damn films.
Knowing what I want does not translate into having the time and talent to pull it off.

Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875603)

So you're saying that women don't have the talent to do it themselves?

-Eric

Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (3, Insightful)

sarabiz (899013) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869952)

Yeah, but women just complain about it, instead of trying to get into the games industry.

Interesting. So all women who wish games were less male orientated not only must be programmers, but enjoy the fun and exciting life of a game programmer- low pay, long hours, and a crappy high stress environment.

Luckily, there ARE more female friendly games out there: Kings Quest, Monkey Island, The Longest Journey...basically any game from the Adventure genre. Unfortunely, very few of these games are made anymore. I blame Roberta Williams, and her God-Awful KQ8- Mask of Eternity.

Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (1)

Eli Gottlieb (917758) | more than 8 years ago | (#14871619)

News to you: Any woman who wanted to work in the games industry could be paid an extremely high salary just to explain to "normal game designers" (ie: nerds) what a female character should look, act and be like.

All of a sudden those degrees in Women's Studies actually become useful.

Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (2, Insightful)

Mistshadow2k4 (748958) | more than 8 years ago | (#14871733)

Uh... you may be a nice guy and all, but I gotta you're wrong on this one. More than one woman has tried to break into the gaming industry only to get the very frank attitude "what could a chick know about gaming" from her new employers and peers. Saying women are welcome in the industry is like saying women are welcome at the local gentlemen's club, given the attitude in the industry. All too many may be willing to hire woman game designers but then expect them to work on tetris vriants and kids games, or the new "Barbie does whatever" style games. Women who get to work on games like Neverwinter Nights or even (gasp!) an FPS are the exception among women game designers, not the norm. Do some research and you'll see that I'm right; I've heard this over and over for years, and although it has improved, it is still happening to a lot to women who try to get a job in the industry. The attitude that a woman gamer or desinger has to prove herself as good as a guy is enough to piss most of us off right from the start - why should we have to prove anything? Yes, I'm quite aware of the attitudes towards women gamers and desingers in the industry, as I am a woman and I've been gaming longer than some of you (and some young desingers) have been alive.

Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (1)

Eli Gottlieb (917758) | more than 8 years ago | (#14871855)

If you really are a woman I'll take it from you.

Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (1)

sesshomaru (173381) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875043)

Well, that's probably true but then my impression of the American gaming industry is that it is a Hell-hole in general. I wouldn't be looking for enlightened attitudes from it.

I'm a man, a programmer and I love games (both tabletop and video), and I wouldn't touch the American gaming industry with a ten foot clown pole.

Which is really a shame. Of course, I have no idea about the gaming industry in other countries, like Japan [joystiq.com] (I did find that one article).

Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875672)

woman game designers

Has anyone here ever even *MET* one of these mythical creatures, much less been in a position to harass them out of the "gentlemen's club?" Where exactly are these hoards of would-be women game designer greats who are being held back by us evil men, anyway? I don't think I've ever met one, seen one at any conference, or even heard of one.

-Eric

Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (1)

gone9teen (958480) | more than 8 years ago | (#14879163)

If a woman designer is not as good as her male counterpart then how, in your honest opinion, do they deserve to have the job over the male designer? If he can design better games and it has been proven then why would a woman suddenly get his job? Everyone has to prove that they are worth it to be given a chance and with the incredibly small amount of women game designer/coders etc. then there is a smaller pool of talent to work with. The truly good ones will and do get the jobs they desire. Yes, you do have to prove yourself and if that pisses you off then you really need to look at a new job market.

Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (1)

easychord (671421) | more than 8 years ago | (#14870989)

It seems that many of the women there were in the industry or trying to get in and held a conference to work out what they want and how to get it.

Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (3, Insightful)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869220)

Expecting them to be able to write a realistic female character doesn't make sense.

I'm thinking that getting Game Developers to write a realistic male would be nigh-impossible. Games tend to be a form of escapist fantasy that are intended to put you in situations you want to be in rather than situation you already are in.

Thus the male heros in games tend to be totally ripped, unnaturally smart, or outrageously funny. Now if you extend this to the female characters, what do you think happens?

Perhaps the only thing worse than the overendowed girls with useless body armor is the "tough girl" image. Thank goodness that the Samantha Carter character in StarGate moved away from the "I can pull 6Gs and win any hand-to-hand knife fight" character into a more realistic person. The show was much more interesting for it.

Now if only they hadn't had her get into a romantic relationship with every new regular on the show...

Sam's romances (1)

StarKruzr (74642) | more than 8 years ago | (#14872959)

Erm. She did?

Martouf and the Ancient guy whose name I can't remember. That's about it, really, aside from her undying love for Jack O'Neill. Oh, and there was Pete, who was BARELY recurring. So really, four-ish characters in 9 years... not terribly strange or excessive.

Re:Sam's romances (1)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 8 years ago | (#14874161)

You forgot the Tolan guy. Plus the government ambassador guy who she meets in 2001 and marries in 2010. Not to mention the current head of the NID. There are probably a few more I'm forgetting. That makes 7 right off the bat.

Re:Sam's romances (1)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875840)

A few others:

Captain Jonas Hanson - The former fiance to Samatha Carter. (Season 1 Ep. 6)
Fifth - The Replicator Dude that Sam gets to betray the replicators due to his infatuation with her. He later creates a RepliCarter who becomes a villian.

That makes 9.

Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (2, Interesting)

steveo777 (183629) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869697)

Ever hear of a game called "Beyond Good and Evil"? I'm not saying the developers understood women. But the games main charecter was a strong willed woman who wasn't about sex appeal. It was also an amazing game. It's on all the 'current gen' systems (GC, PS2, XBox) and is not likely to cost more than 20 bucks. I think I saw it on PC, but I might be mistaken.

Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (1)

Locke03 (915242) | more than 8 years ago | (#14871356)

Excellent game. It has a good storyline, plays well, has interesting characters, decent voice acting...a lot of developers out there should study this game as it's one of the few newish games that haven't disappointed me, Halo being the most recent(No, all you fanboys out there, Halo is not as good as Half-Life or even Dark Forces IMNSHO). And it is available on PC.

Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (1)

dyslexicbunny (940925) | more than 8 years ago | (#14871108)

But no one wants to wait forever for her to decide what to wear.

Seriously though, don't some of these game designers have wives? Couldn't a couple of them run home and ask the lady what she thinks? Or are these not normal women (ie: non-gamers/rpgers/nerdy) either?

Perhaps have a game where the female characters with the ridiculous breasts just end up having them get in the way or complain about their backs. Or have her complain a lot in general (Anna Nicoleish) and annoy the player. Then slowly move towards realistic women both in personality and shape.

Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (1)

XanC (644172) | more than 8 years ago | (#14871204)

Plug sales expectations into your thought experiment, and I think we've answered the question!

Two things: (4, Insightful)

Pantero Blanco (792776) | more than 8 years ago | (#14868937)

1. Some females play video games. We've gotten that for YEARS; it's about as revolutionary at this point as minorities going to college.

2. Disliking "sophmoric humor" in games isn't a "female" thing. It's an "I'm-not-twelve" thing.

Re:Two things: (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14869060)

2. Disliking "sophmoric humor" in games isn't a "female" thing. It's an "I'm-not-twelve" thing.

But that's exactly the thing. A significant number of males who play video games do so exactly because they want to feel like they're twelve again.

Re:Two things: (3, Interesting)

slughead (592713) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869322)

Some females play video games. We've gotten that for YEARS; it's about as revolutionary at this point as minorities going to college.

I find the Fragdolls [fragdolls.com] website sort of amusing. It seems to do nothing but promote a few girls who play video games.. What else do they do?.. well they're semi-attractive 20-somethings, of course.. just look at their profiles [fragdolls.com] , it's an amature modeling site.

That's unlike any clan I've ever been in. Most of the people in clan [DXM] were so overweight I doubt they could even stand upright for a whole photoshoot..

Their site is paid for by ubisoft, and I wouldn't be surprised if they make a bit on the side so they can devote more time to gaming and attracting males to specific areas such as x-box live games.

And what kind of "serious gamer" puts x-box as their mainstay? Last time I checked, half the genres out there are nearly unplayable without a mouse.

I'd imagine this type of thing would deter more women to play games than anything else.

I could be wrong though, I know when my girlfriend played Battlefield 2 she was all about flirting with the other team to get them to type more than play. We'd win nearly every round.

Re:Two things: (3, Informative)

Saige (53303) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869431)

Yes, the Frag Dolls were put together by UbiSoft, and the company does pay them to travel to various gaming-related conventions and shows. They do make media appearances and the like. And yes, they were at least partially picked for their attractiveness - though that was secondary to making sure they were all serious and GOOD gamers.

One of the Frag Dolls is also one of the co-founders of my clan, the PMS Clan [pmsclan.com] , and a few more of them are members. They're not pretty faces that can barely play, they're all dead serious gamers that are quite skilled, and they're very much into promoting gaming as acceptable for girls.

Re:Two things: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14873572)

They're not pretty faces that can barely play, they're all dead serious gamers that are quite skilled, and they're very much into promoting gaming as acceptable for girls.

though that was secondary to making sure they were all serious and GOOD gamers.

Don't kid yourself... I believe both qualities were primary.

They are pretty faces and that takes away most of their credibility. Companies can't go cherrypick best looking people, make them seem like favorable examples and expect me to believe it. They're like most boy/girl "bands" out there: looking good and can do their job like singing or playing games but that's about it.

It's stupid and it's shameful. These trimmed up bimboes aren't your typical gamers. They are cherrypicked. "Ur pwned dude! Oh noes gtg 2 gym now kthxbye!" No.

Wake me up when there's grown gamer women in their 30's or 40's and with adequate weight and maybe i start believing.

Re:Two things: (1)

Saige (53303) | more than 8 years ago | (#14876834)

Gaming abilities were placed above appearance as selection criteria. My understanding is that they were much quicker to dismiss girls without exceptional gaming skills and interest than they were to dismiss those that weren't "above average" in appearance. Yes, appearance is important since they would be doing a LOT of work with the public and media. That's just the way things work in society today. Besides, they'd get blasted either way. Heck, as it is I've seen people attack them as "not very attractive", but I realize those idiots probably think that models in magazines really look like that and aren't massively airbrushed.

And "trimmed up bimbos" is totally ridiculous and insulting. One of the Frag Dolls has already left - due to getting a job working at Bungie, and it's not exactly like she's just being a cheerleader there. Another, as I said, started up my clan with her twin sister. Creating a clan out of nothing, and getting it to the point where there are hundreds of girls involved, along with multiple organizations sponsoring us in one manner or another, is not something that any clueless idiot can do - she's worked hard to do that. And a friend of mine who's in the running to fill the open Frag Dolls spot is a web developer at her company, and about to enter flight school.

And BTW, my clan is full of ladies of all ages and types. We've got girls that are barely teenagers, along with quite a few women in their 40's, and everyone in-between.

So put a cork in it.

Re:Two things: (1)

Psmylie (169236) | more than 8 years ago | (#14882855)

Reminds me of that line from the song Precious Things, by Tori Amos:
"He said you're really an ugly girl
But I like the way you play"

It's really sad that, for a lot of people, attractiveness is more important for a woman then any skills she might have. If she's pretty, additional skills are a bonus. If she's not, then whatever skills she has are considered a waste. I've discussed this with my wife many times, about how its really no wonder that so many geeks have a hard time getting a girlfriend. They can't understand why women want only the attractive guys, and want all those really hot women to see through their pimply, overweight, geek exterior and see the wonderful human being inside; at the same time, they consider themselves too good for a not-so-attractive girl. It's a fine irony.

Re:Two things: (1)

pimpimpim (811140) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875454)

I was planning to mod you up but then I noticed that "PMS [wikipedia.org] clan" is NOT a very promoting name for a clan with a lot of girls playing in there :)

Re:Two things: (1)

Saige (53303) | more than 8 years ago | (#14876748)

Well, we have a few hundred girls as members, so we seem to be doing fine recruiting new people. :) And it makes sure we're memorable that way!

Re:Two things: (1)

Woy (606550) | more than 8 years ago | (#14883025)

The quote in your sig - to whom does it belong?

Thank you.

Re:Two things: (1)

Saige (53303) | more than 8 years ago | (#14886287)

The quote? No idea. Searches have only been able to show that it was someone on usenet that seems to have first said it, but nobody can attribute it to a specific person.

Re:Two things: (1)

British (51765) | more than 8 years ago | (#14870040)

I'd imagine this type of thing would deter more women to play games than anything else

I could be wrong though, I know when my girlfriend played Battlefield 2 she was all about flirting with the other team to get them to type more than play. We'd win nearly every round.


*sigh*

Re:Two things: (1)

Retroneous (879615) | more than 8 years ago | (#14871079)

You want to know something funny? One of these highly paid and super-cool Frag Dolls works at my local branch of GAME, for what basically amounts to minimum wage + £1 an hour.

And that is the absolute, honest truth. A friend of mine works with her boyfriend. Went in to GAME to have a look around - "Hang on, isn't that? Isn't she that girl from the Frag Dolls?"...

They're so cool.

Re:Two things: (1)

daddyrief (910385) | more than 8 years ago | (#14873287)

Your girlfriend was just hoping you'd take her to the server with the hottest nerds.

Re:Two things: (2, Insightful)

saltydog0302 (708039) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869362)

3.) Female gamers like good games--regardless of what the main character is built like. I have a theory that it's actually the gaming press that is sexist--the only time they're interested in any woman's opinions on games is when that opinion relates to being female. I don't think chick gamers are like that--we just want to play. As a woman, and a gamer, I couldn't give a rat's ass about what bounces on my party members. Give me good gameplay, some depth, and I'm there.

Agreed. (1)

tokengeekgrrl (105602) | more than 8 years ago | (#14871138)

I'm a girl/grrl/woman, whatever, who loves to play games.

I remember when the Atari came out and just salivating over it. I knew my large and barely middle class family could never afford it so I befriended a girl in my neighborhood I didn't really like who had Atari just so I could play it.

Pathetic? Totally, but it means I'm a gamer at heart and gamers like good games. Period.

My first and foremost love is and always will be Tetris, I used to go to great, silly, lengths to make sure I had the Tetris highscore at the local arcade. I remember being ridiculously ecstatic when the gameboy came out. I saved for it and bought one with a tetris card so it would be at my beck and call.

Currently, I'm mainly playing DOA 4 and my favorite character is Kasumi, one of the female characters with ridiculously large breasts. Of course, since I happen to have ridiculously large breasts, it just makes me relate to the game more and feel apart of the action. :p

Seriously though, so what? Figuring out all of the combo and special moves is fun, especially when it means pounding my boyfriend's DOA character into the pavement. We had a great time unlocking all of the extra characters and no, neither one of us is at cut or thin or whatever as any of the DOA characters. I enjoy it because it's a really well-crafted and entertaining game.

And I like all things Kung Fu.

- tokengamergrrl

WAS held in February (4, Funny)

kuwan (443684) | more than 8 years ago | (#14868939)

Held in February!!! Why wasn't it news before it happened? How are we going to meet any girl gamers now?

You trot them out once a year from the depths unknown and then tell us about it after it happened!?

Re:WAS held in February (3, Funny)

NewWorldDan (899800) | more than 8 years ago | (#14870051)

Chill dude, you weren't going to meet them anyway.

Re:WAS held in February (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875227)

They didn't want the press to show up and see how few women actually attended.

-Eric

simple marketing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14868951)

majority of males playing FPS's and video games in general so majority of games marketed towards men.

Female Gamers Duke It Out? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14868960)

Girl fight! Yeah!!

Re: Female Gamers Duke It Out? (1)

boy_afraid (234774) | more than 8 years ago | (#14870565)

Rules for Girl Fight:

#1 - The first rule of Girl Fight is, you do not talk about Girl Fight.

#2 - The second rule of Girl Fight is, you DO NOT talk about Girl Fight.

#3 - If someone says stop, goes limp, taps out, (starts to kiss and make out) the fight is over.

#4 - Two girls to a fight.

#5 - One fight at a time.

#6 - No shirts, no shoes (and for that matter, no bras and no panties).

#7 - Fights will go on as long as they have to.

#8 - If this is your first night at Girl Fight, you have to fight.

pointless (0, Flamebait)

know1 (854868) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869010)

make sure the dupe at least has pics of these women. even if they are as fat as irc chicks

Re:pointless (0, Offtopic)

SenatorOrrinHatch (741838) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869113)

mod that shit insightful

Re:pointless (2, Insightful)

smooth wombat (796938) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869158)

Here are pics [nvidia.co.uk] from the Counter Strike Masters competition from 2004. I wouldn't exactly call them fat ass IRC chicks.

Re:pointless (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14869224)

But who's better at gaming? Fat ass IRC chicks or pretty girls?

Re:pointless (2, Informative)

Saige (53303) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869178)

Not hard to find the Frag Dolls [fragdolls.com] , but I suppose that would ruin precious trolling...

Re:pointless (1)

know1 (854868) | more than 8 years ago | (#14870219)

shouldn't have to find them....we all know it was wanted, it should have been in the article. cheers though

Re:pointless (0, Offtopic)

F_Scentura (250214) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869280)

They wouldn't get attention if they were your usual irc buttertrolls.

Re:pointless (1)

SSCGWLB (956147) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869542)

You know, the parent asked the most reasonable and insightful question here, and he is modded flamebait!! What a travesty. On a more serious note, does anybody here really want to play most of the games an women would design? Women are interested in different things then men *gasp*! They obviously like different types of games also (Catz *shudder*, sims, etc). I want to be able to take over the world, shoot things, chop offending races into mincy slivers, fry the landscape with fireballs, and then visit my girl for a hot beverage. So, no need to change something that works for us guys. Instead, make something NEW that girls want to play.

~nate

Re:pointless (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875884)

Women are interested in different things then men

Greetings, citizen! You are in violation of section 38 of the Political Correctness Statute. Please place your hands in the yellow circles and prepare for a police action. Have a good day, citizen!

Anyone know famous female gamers? (1)

RedHatLinux (453603) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869019)

I gotta write the standard, "women's history month essay". I rather write about them, than trot out the same ole Rosa Park essay,

Re:Anyone know famous female gamers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14870039)

Damn. I wish I'd thought of this pickup line when I was in school.

Under-represented! (5, Interesting)

ossington (853347) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869021)

Sure, everybody talks about the women who like Tetris-style games (my own mother is one of them), and the "tomboys" who like blood and violence are a big deal, but what about the third camp? The big secret behind women: we like to play God. Give me SecondLife or The Sims or Black and White any day of the week. I think it's a control thing.

Re:Under-represented! (1)

daniel422 (905483) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869259)

Wow! You sound like my (soon-to-be) ex-wife -- only she doesn't play video games. She just plays god. If she played games instead maybe we'd still be married.

Now my daughter plays anything -- she's seen to much of her Daddy and (older) brother playing not to get in on the action. I think we're still at it's another one of those "not a girl thing to do" stereotypes that will wear off (and it slowly is) as video games become more the norm in our daily lives. Think: video games as a mark of conservative society! Well, more like: video games as a new common social watering hole.

Re:Under-represented! (1)

7Prime (871679) | more than 8 years ago | (#14871976)

Think: video games as a mark of conservative society!
Nah, only when video games become as old and decripped as AM radio.

Re:Under-represented! (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875334)

Now my daughter plays anything

She must still be young. When my daughter was a kid, she would play anything. When she became a teenager, it was pure "girl games" from then on out. The closest she comes to "hardcore" gaming now is an MMORPG. And she spends most of her time on The Sims Online.

-Eric

Re:Under-represented! (1)

daniel422 (905483) | more than 8 years ago | (#14877752)

Yeah -- she's only 2! We'll see how things turn out, but social gaming certainly isn't discouraged in my house -- and I find FPS to be decent social games too (except of course that you're SHOOTING things!). I'm personally dreading when she becomes a teenager -- I see way too much external social pressure on girls these days.
I don't know...how can you resist the chance to frag Daddy?

Re:Under-represented! (4, Insightful)

Hannah E. Davis (870669) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869380)

I'm with you on that one... to some extent.

Let's just say that I was up until 6am on both Friday and Saturday nights last week because I finally got Black & White 2 to work on my computer. That game is just amazing -- probably one of the best I've ever played.

I like other genres too, though. I've wasted long hours on adventure games (King's Quest, Space Quest, etc.), virtual pet games (Petz, Creatures), and various multiplayer RPGs (MUDs in the past, WoW these days). I enjoy Civilization too, and I used to play Prince of Persia, Commander Keen, Duke Nukem, and Castle Wolfenstein when I was little.

I'm not sure if there's any one big secret behind female gamers. Just as there is no one genre that all men want, there isn't any one thing that every woman will like/want/buy. I mean, we're half the freakin' population -- why do people expect us to somehow NOT be as divided in our likes and dislikes as our male counterparts?

Seriously, just make good games in a variety of different genres and girls will play them.... and at least then you won't lose your entire male audience (along with a lot of girls as well) by dumbing everything down and coating it with pink.

Re:Under-represented! (2, Informative)

PDA_Monkey (801668) | more than 8 years ago | (#14873642)

Statistically speaking females are more than half of the population.

More boys are born than girls, but more girls survive childhood than boys.

Re:Under-represented! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14869924)

What are you doing Friday night?

Re:Under-represented! (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875269)

The big secret behind women: we like to play God. Give me SecondLife

Most of the women I met in Second Life weren't interested in playing God, they were interested in designing clothing and stylish furniture.

-Eric

Nuts... (1)

thesnarky1 (846799) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869022)

As usual the summary killed the story for me. Here I thought it was about hard core sexy frag girls playing Duke Nukem: Forever... turns out its still in development. *sigh*

KEEP BREAKING MY HEART WHY DON'T YOU!!! *shawshank pose*

Re:Nuts... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14880691)

If I had an account, I'd mod you +5 Interesting. Seriously, that was free t-shirt territory... geek to tha' core!

Story time (2, Interesting)

PapaZit (33585) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869038)

Anda's Game [salon.com] (have to either subscribe or go through an ad to see it) is a cute story about gaming from a girl's perspective. Fiction, but maybe not so much as it seems. It seems like the sort of thing that might help some guys relate a little bit better.

Re:Story time (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875427)

might help some guys relate a little bit better.

Yeah, umhhh "relate". I'm sorry, but we don't do that.

"Anda's Game" is about as likely to get us to "relate" as "Jim's Game" is to give you "a hard-on for some blood-and-guts slaughtering!!"

-Eric

Women Roleplaying (2, Insightful)

dmt99 (123849) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869346)

I always found women in EQ to be more into the roleplaying aspect of the game. They were kinder and used the language associated with EQ and certinaly NOT d00dspeak...
The also brought more hugs and kisses to the game.. No duh..

Re:Women Roleplaying (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14869599)

haha! that was me man! you e-hugged/e-kissed a dude..oh wait..so did i! :(

Re:Women Roleplaying (1)

Zardus (464755) | more than 8 years ago | (#14871841)

Not neccesarilly. Maybe he's a woman playing a man...

Re:Women Roleplaying (1)

HTL2001 (836298) | more than 8 years ago | (#14871562)

I have seen across MMO's that girls play a fair ammount... and I can verify that ~90% of the female character sprites that were in my guild at one point were indeed females (the ones that weren't freely admitted it and didn't try to act like girls at any point) and know a few who play as male sprites for 1. avoiding harrasment and 2. gender specific classes

Hello? (2, Informative)

argStyopa (232550) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869714)

How about we link to the ARTICLE http://ninthwavedesigns.typepad.com/guilded_lilies /2006/03/annie_get_your_.html [typepad.com] rather than linking to someone's lameass blog that REFERENCES the link to the article?

Editors should catch this crap.

OT: link to the article instead of the blog (1)

British (51765) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869966)

I agree completely. We have a summary zonk may(or may not have written), and then we have to read a freakin blogger's view of the article. Oh, and somewhere buried in there is the original editorial. Yay for meta-crap!

If blogs are going to be the unnecessary middleman of typewritten content(like intrusive ads), then let's just forget about logs.

But I never had really any faith in Zonk's story reporting.

A hint to some women. (4, Insightful)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 8 years ago | (#14869818)

Why do game makers put stuff in that appeals to some guys that offends some women? Because that is their market stupid.

DOA Beachball or whatever it is called is aimed at the guys. There are 3 billion of them and while not all guys like DOA beachball even if a mere 10 percent likes the idea that is still a shitload of games.

To these women who wonder why some games are not aimed at them I ask them this. Why were there no carchases in Titanic? No sword fights, no half naked ninja killers asian teenage girls? We guys NEED THAT. The crappy soppy romance crap without any of the hardhitting political criteque that was in the original offends US!

There a guy games and their are girls games and their are gender neutral games. Just as for every other piece of entertainment. Soppy mindless romance drivel movies for the girls, crappy senseless violence for the boys. Or not.

Why do all games have to appeal to all people? Frankly the women becrying the guy games seem to want to turn all men into women. Not going to happen ladies. Especially not since those same women will be raising the next generations of crotch scratchers.

Don't blame game designed for guys that they don't appeal to girls unless your 100% sure games designed for girls appeal to guys.

I hate to see a game that appeals to everyone. Disney tries that. Ewh.

Re:A hint to some women. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14872457)

To these women who wonder why some games are not aimed at them I ask them this. Why were there no carchases in Titanic? No sword fights, no half naked ninja killers asian teenage girls? We guys NEED THAT. The crappy soppy romance crap without any of the hardhitting political criteque that was in the original offends US!

Just because it doesn't suit your tastes, doesn't mean that it doesn't suit all guys. Grow up, sit down, and shut the fuck up you lonely little boy.

Re:A hint to some women. (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875378)

Just because it doesn't suit your tastes, doesn't mean that it doesn't suit all guys.

That's true. He forgot to account for homosexuals.

-Eric

Do these chicks have big tits? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14869823)

And tight asses? gimme gimme gimme some!

more "interesting" villains (1)

dltaylor (7510) | more than 8 years ago | (#14870085)

Rather than the alien, Nazi, enemy-du-jour, for a Player-Character of whatever gender (Heinlein counted six), start with the standard "my little sister was ..." by one, or more, of the following: "body tax" collector at workplace, sexually aggressive cop, serial rapist, politician, street gang, sex slave trader, snuff film producer. You can even go international.

Picture your character with the unions, cops, Feds, and gangs all trying to kill heesh (as you complete each mission, you get a new permanent enemy). After all, real life provides more varied and more truly dangerous situations than the game writers can imagine.

Pics, please (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14871441)

Because I, uh, find it hard to believe that they, um, play video games. Thanks.

Opinions of men... (3, Interesting)

7Prime (871679) | more than 8 years ago | (#14872074)

Hey, I'm a GUY and I don't like seeing women objectified in video games. Not just because of how I think it might effect our culture, but because it really feels like a threat to my intelligence, and it reenforces male stereotypes just as much as it does female stereotypes. Game companies putting in big-titted, thongly dressed women over and over again just says to me, "we think that men only ever think about is sex, and from a purely physical standpoint." You see this stereotype reenforced everywhere in our culture, but this is usually completely exadurated. Sure, it makes sense to cast characters that are reasonably attractive, especially if we are supposed to connect and empathize with them, being "easy to look at" is a positive feature. But making them completely abnormally sexual, either in appearence or in personality, just destroys all empathetic connection with that character. If I wanted to just look at sexual women all the time, I'd probably just hang out at METArt all the time or subscribe to Penthouse.

Strangely enough, in narrative games, such as RPGs or adventure games, I think that there is a lot more diversity in female characterization than male charactization. For the guys, 95% of characters either fall into: "tough talking hero", "silent, hard-boiled badass", "innocent young boy", "wise, though cool, old geezer", and "silent seifer protagonist". For the women, you have you're typical "starry-eyed romantic lead", "boobulicious, overbearing young woman", and the "annoying, but cute little girl". Yet, I would only say that about 50%-60% of female characters in games fit into those distinct catagories, and even the ones that do tend to have much richer personalities than the guys.

Re:Opinions of men... (1)

Provocateur (133110) | more than 8 years ago | (#14874845)

And somewhere out there, the SysAdmins at METArt are wondering about a curious spike that just took place mid-morning on the 8th of March 2006...

The dialogue commences:

'Guys, I think I've heard of an occurrence like this somewhere before. I believe it's called...I can't remember...the reindeer effect?'

The others look up from their terminals, checking to see if the guy was totally serious.

Hasnt this all been said before. (2, Insightful)

xtieburn (906792) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875355)

Women gamers are on the rise the recent study on women gamers in England placed them at about 44% of the entire gaming community how is this 'ignored by the game industry for so long'

'People are assuming that games have to be mindless in order for women to play them' - Since when??? the top game for equal play by the sexes is the Sims. Thats pretty much common knowledge in the industry how would that translate to the industry thinking women need a brainless game and at what point did they think this only applies to games made for women. Last I checked most games dont exactly have the complexity of well thought out book or film.

'with puke-humor' 'sophomoric' - Oh yeah because men love puke and sophomoric humour I mean thats a real seller for every man I know... Games that rely on these things are typically bad games not bad games for women. Just bad games.

'Wallace's advice: Make a game mechanic accessible.' - Genius. Why didnt the industry think of that before. If games didnt make the game mechanics accessible theyd be... bad games. Not bad games for women. Just bad games.

'co-op' - Another brilliant suggestion add co-op modes in games. That will sell them to women... and men, because if games have co-op modes thats a good feature. Not good for women. Just a good feature for everyone.

'I would argue that World of Warcraft actually did design the game with women in mind,' - Really? Do go on.

'crafter roles and supporting roles' - So they believe warcraft was made with women in mind because there are supporting roles such as healers etc. The same roles that are in dozens of games from your FPS's to your RPG's and have been for years now. Yeah clearly Blizzard were making a conscious effort to make it accesible to women and not just utilising a tried and tested mechanic that once again both sexes approve of.

The article has someone claiming They treat women as a mysterious nut to crack. then listing a number of points and holding an entire event based around women as if they are a mysterious nut to crack.

Just about every single point in the whole article on how to make better games applies to everyone not women, not men. Everyone. Which is exactly the point a lot of people and myself have been making for years now. If you make good and varied games women will play them. Its as simple as that.

The second article pretty much backs that view up. Women like FPS, women like puzzles, some like violence, some hate it. Almost as if women have diverse tastes in games just like men. (Although the infighting reminds me of a point Janet Street Porter made about women being the major factor in holding women back.)

Maybe this is a flame, maybe im just a jaded male gamer, but when I look at the other industries they just dont seem to have this problem. Sure you get chick flicks and macho movies in the movie industry but they're just labels and regardless of what genre a film is a good film is a good film. You dont have groups and thousands of people within that industry trying to push all the films in to catering for both sexes absolutely equally. (Nor would I ever want that to happen.)
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