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Suspend2 Suspended

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 8 years ago | from the be-careful-of-burnout dept.

77

musicon writes "Nigel Cunningham, the creator of the Suspend2 software suspend system for Linux announced his retirement from the project in a message to the Linux Kenel Mailing List. 'Users of Suspend2 can rest assured that I will not allow the patches to suffer bitrot. I will be continuing to use them myself, and will therefore have the best of incentives to keep them up-to-date [...] I won't, however, be making any sort of concerted effort at getting them merged into the vanilla kernel [...] I don't see the point to doing anything but maintaining the patches as they stand.'"

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77 comments

for the lazy.... (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14873324)

Hi all.

I'm delighted to announce that I've accepted a call to serve a congregation in
Victoria, Australia, as a Home Missionary elder. As a result, some time in
the next month or two, I will stop working for Cyclades and make the move.

Users of Suspend2 can rest assured that I will not allow the patches to suffer
bitrot. I will be continuing to use them myself, and will therefore have the
best of incentives to keep them up-to-date.

Now for the downside: I won't, however, be making any sort of concerted effort
at getting them merged into the vanilla kernel after my move, and am not
inclined to make a big effort beforehand. Recent discussions on LKML clearly
showed that Pavel doesn't want to see them merged, and I didn't see much in
the way of other kernel developers expressing a desire contrary to Pavel's
wishes. I don't want to waste my time and effort, so I don't see the point to
doing anything but maintaining the patches as they stand.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Cyclades for their employment and
support of the project.

Regards,

Nigel

Dude! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14873347)

two things you did wrong:

1) you should have made the subject line "first post!", or at least sign with a "(first post?)". please, we have certain standards in place.
2) karma whoring doesn't work if you post anonymously. you'll get modded "+5, informative" in no time and regret it.

(second post?)

Re:for the lazy.... (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 8 years ago | (#14874741)

I've accepted a call to serve a congregation in Victoria, Australia, as a Home Missionary elder.

Oh yeah, like none of us have ever used that lame old excuse.

-Eric

Awww!!! (1)

NekoXP (67564) | more than 8 years ago | (#14873349)

Of all the useful things...

Is there an alternative to it that might actually be part of the kernel eventually and not a maintained patchset?

Re:Awww!!! (2, Interesting)

gerddie (173963) | more than 8 years ago | (#14873699)

There is a suspend as part of the vanilla kernel. I'm using it for quite some time now. Hibernate works on my Laptop, but only if I don't use the binary only nvidia drivers (Geforce2 Go) - and it works on my desktop system too - here even with the nvidia drivers (Geforce 6600) and SMP/Hyperthreading enabled (needs CPU hotplug enabled too). I'm using the hibernate scripts ( (apt-get install | emerge) hibernate) and the /sys/power/state method. Suspend to RAM is not working on my desktop system though.

Home Missionary elder? (3, Insightful)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 8 years ago | (#14873357)

According to TFA he is going to be some sort of Home Missionary elder. He seems to be about 200 years too late. All the missionaries left years ago. At least I thought so...hope so.

Now I don't want to be rude but what we really do need here in Victoria, Australia is good software engineers and I can think right now of a spot for him a couple of cubes across from me where his knowledge of linux kernel internals could be put to good use.

Re:Home Missionary elder? (4, Informative)

smvp6459 (896580) | more than 8 years ago | (#14873462)

I think he's talking LDS AKA Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints AKA Mormon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Jesus_Chris t_of_Latter-day_Saints [wikipedia.org] )

They're about the only people I know that use the words home, missionary, and elder in the same sentence. I currently reside in Salt Lake City, Utah, or as I like to call it, the mothership of the LDS church; as such I get to witness this "culture". It's unlikely these missionaries will ever leave Australia unless A. Your goverment passes laws prohibiting their presence (China) or B. Numbers of them start getting killed (certain parts of the U.S.). And something tells me the First Presidency would disagree with your religion vs. technology assesment.

Please stay in Utah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14873794)

Please tell them we don't need any more Mormon missionaries here in Victoria, Australia.

They're welcome to believe whatever they want, but stop trying to push it onto everybody else. That's rude.

It's like telemarketing, except it's in your face. "Hi, is your religion letting you down? Come try mine, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints! What, you're an atheist? You need God in your life. Why, it says right here in the book that [ ... voice fades in the distance ...]"

Yes pls to polygamy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14873839)

Please tell them we don't need any more Mormon missionaries here in Victoria, Australia.

Nooooooooooo ... please preach polygamy here too!!!!

Re:Yes pls to polygamy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14873860)

Mormons don't preach polygamy. It was a de facto (never preached) thing of their past, and now is severely discouraged. (Also illegal of course, but that's a different issue.)

Re:Yes pls to polygamy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14874365)

WTF? They dropped the only thing worthwhile in Mormonism?

"Worthwhile" only in the sense of being a civil liberty which the state has no business regulating, whether it be nF1M, 1FnM, or nFnM.

Personally I think it would be a major headache, but that's irrelevant to the question of what others should be free to do.

Re:Please stay in Utah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14874003)

They're welcome to believe whatever they want, but stop trying to push it onto everybody else. That's rude.

If I'm welcome to believe whatever I want, then surely I'm welcome to believe that I have a right and a duty to push my beliefs onto you? Or are you trying to force me to accept your beliefs about what sort of beliefs it's acceptable to push onto someone?

Basically, how come you think you should get to push your beliefs onto me, but you whine when I try to tell you something I fully believe will make you happy?

The hypocrisy is overwhelming.

Re:Please stay in Utah (1)

renoX (11677) | more than 8 years ago | (#14874082)

No, it's the basic rule: your freedom ends where someoneelse freedom is begining.

"Total freedom" ends whether that of others begins (1)

Morgaine (4316) | more than 8 years ago | (#14874444)

No discussion about freedom can proceed sensibly without the fundamental premise that if two people have the same freedom (regardless of the details) then the freedom of one ends where the freedom of another begins, and viceversa.

In other words, "total freedom" has inherent boundaries, which are the equal freedoms of others who possess the same freedom.

Saying that "total freedom" goes further and has no boundaries is either blinkered or just playing with words, because it denies that your concept of freedom is applicable to anyone else. It's not a logically consistent position.

Your position fell down simply because it does not respect the equivalence boundary.

Re:Home Missionary elder? (2, Informative)

swillden (191260) | more than 8 years ago | (#14874266)

I think he's talking LDS AKA Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints AKA Mormon. They're about the only people I know that use the words home, missionary, and elder in the same sentence.

I'm Mormon, and was a missionary, and the LDS Church has no such thing as "Home Missionary elder". We have full-time missionaries, both young (ages 19-25 or so) and old (retired couples), and Home Teachers, who visit members of the Church in their own areas, and various Ward Missionaries and Stake Missionaries, who also only work in their own home areas, and do it as a part time thing (usually no more than a couple of hours per week).

So (unfortunately :-) ), I don't think Nigel is Mormon. I do respect and honor his decision to serve God in his own faith, though, and wish him well in his endeavors, even though I use and like Suspend2 and wish it were in Linus' tree.

And to all of the people complaining about Mormon missionaries "forcing" their beliefs upon people, missionaries do no such thing. Indeed, there's really no way they could force their ideas on people. Missionaries offer to talk to you, and to give you a Book of Mormon. If you don't want to talk to them, don't. Unlike the missionaries of some other faiths, Mormon missionaries are taught to be polite and respectful, not confrontational or combative. In my experience, 99% of the complaints about pushy Mormon missionaries are actually complaints about other churches' missionaries who are mistaken for Mormons. And even those missionaries can't "force" their ideas on anyone... they just use an approach which is more offensive (and, IME, far less successful as well).

Re:Home Missionary elder? (2, Insightful)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875308)

Thanks for posting that. I was going to but you beat me too it. Yea I doubt it also but then there are a lot more Linux hackers out there that are Mormon than a most people on Slashdot know. After all Novell is out of Utah and BTU TV actually gives instructions on using Linux to view it's streams.
Funny how someone that lives in Salt Lake City and claims to know so much about the LDS church could get it so wrong.

What really BUGS the daylights out of me is why do people think they have the right to say he shouldn't do this! Read his post people!
"I'm delighted to announce that I've accepted a call to serve a congregation in Victoria, Australia, as a Home Missionary elder."
He obviously wants to do this! He is happy to do this why do some people think they have the right to say anything but best wishes? I mean for good freaking grief for all we know he will be working in a drug rehab program or a food kitchen! Bunch of selfish little brats are all worried that their free software will go away. Well you all have the code. Start working and stop whining because Nigel decided that there are other things HE wants to give HIS time too.

Re:Home Missionary elder? (1)

billcopc (196330) | more than 8 years ago | (#14878917)

I mean for good freaking grief for all we know he will be working in a drug rehab program or a food kitchen!

That's all fine and dandy until you hit a die-hard darwinist such as myself who thinks drug addicts should deal with their own goddamned problems. I did, and I have no pity for the weak. If you don't have the brains nor willpower to get out of your own hell, then you're better off as compost to fertilize my lawn.

Hope is humankind's greatest blunder.

Re:Home Missionary elder? (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 8 years ago | (#14879199)

Actually you don't understand Evolution all that well then. Charity is a survival tactic that seems to work pretty well. Since every organism is likely to face a time of helplessness mutual cooperation can give a species an advantage. Refusing to help can put an individual at a grave disadvantage since they my be seen as less worthy as a breeding partner or will not be offered help when they or even their offspring need it.

Re:Home Missionary elder? (1)

billcopc (196330) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893652)

Refusing to help can put an individual at a grave disadvantage since they my be seen as less worthy as a breeding partner

Whoa there Morpheus! breeding partner ? This isn't the discovery channel, and if being a hardass means I can have a drink without gold diggers littering my personal space then I'm even happier!

I see people as investments on a holistic scale. If you put time, effort, money (which really are all the same) into someone that's not likely to pay it back (or forward), then it's a poor investment. This isn't cruel or unfair, this is nature. Unhealthy and unsuccessful businesses fail, so should unhealthy and unsuccessful humans. Same game, different scorekeeping. The question is: how do you measure a life ?

Re:Home Missionary elder? (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 8 years ago | (#14894488)

From an purely Darwinist point of view there is a single metric of success. How many of your offspring survive and have offspring. Money means nothing. Power means nothing. Fame means nothing. Only children count.
If your gold diggers do not carry your children to term and or do not raise them so that they are attractive to other as mates you are a failure. It is that simple.
That is a truly darwinist view.

Re:Home Missionary elder? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14880799)

He is happy to do this why do some people think they have the right to say anything but best wishes?

Because he's dangerous. He won't knife you, he won't run you over, but he is very, very dangerous all the same. Anyone who has managed to trick themselves not only into believing in $DIETY, but then thinking they're on a mission from said $DIETY and must go overseas to literally corrupt other people's minds, is always going to be dangerous and should never be trusted.

I say good riddance. We don't need this sort of scum contributing to free software.

Re:Home Missionary elder? (1)

dozer (30790) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875799)

Well, persistance can be seen as pushy. And, ye Gods, are you Mormons persistent. When I lived in Santa Clara, at least 3 groups of 2 or 3 boys (always boys) per year would come cold calling upon my door. It gets tiring after a while, you know? I'd complain, but moving was easier. Thankfully, you guys haven't managed to find my new place yet.

Re:Home Missionary elder? (1)

swillden (191260) | more than 8 years ago | (#14878186)

Well, persistance can be seen as pushy. And, ye Gods, are you Mormons persistent.

Well, sure. At least up until the point that you say you're not interested and close the door. Of course, the next set of missionaries assigned to your area won't have any idea that the previous set talked to you, and probably wouldn't do anything different even if they did. After all, you might have changed your mind. Missionaries work about 12 hours per day, 6.5 days per week and they have a specific area to work in. Knocking on doors is pretty much an activity of last resort for them, when they don't have anything more worthwhile to fill their working hours, so they'll figure they might as well try you just to see if something has happened in your life to make you change your mind.

The other side of this sort of persistence is that you don't really have to worry too much about hurting their feelings. Whatever you do, they've seen worse. A (very drunk) man threatened me with dismemberment by machete because his (adult, married) daughter invited us into her home. Not that you should be rude -- or threaten murder -- but if you're not interested, say so, and they'll go on their way. They'll probably be back eventually, but they'll leave again just as easily. If you go a bit further and ask them not to come back, they'll even make an attempt to pass your request on to the next missionaries. At some point the request will probably get lost, but it should stick for a while.

I'd complain, but moving was easier.

Even easier would be to post a "No solicitation" sign. That would shield you from other potentially irritating interruptions as well, including some who might not be as polite.

Thankfully, you guys haven't managed to find my new place yet.

More likely, you've just moved to an area where member referrals and media referrals (people responding to the TV and radio ads) keep the missionaries sufficiently busy that they don't have to go knocking on doors.

Re:Home Missionary elder? (1)

Kadmos (793363) | more than 8 years ago | (#14880570)

Well, sure. At least up until the point that you say you're not interested and close the door. Of course, the next set of missionaries assigned to your area won't have any idea that the previous set talked to you, and probably wouldn't do anything different even if they did. After all, you might have changed your mind. Missionaries work about 12 hours per day, 6.5 days per week and they have a specific area to work in. Knocking on doors is pretty much an activity of last resort for them, when they don't have anything more worthwhile to fill their working hours, so they'll figure they might as well try you just to see if something has happened in your life to make you change your mind.

That's funny, I thought I was in news.admin.net-abuse.email for a second...

He is LDS (1)

Jizzbug (101250) | more than 8 years ago | (#14877063)

See his family history page here:
http://willden.org/Histories/histories.html [willden.org]

All Mormon missionaries are Elders (except for rare female missionaries). Ward and Stake Missionaries are often referred to as Home Missionaries. So calling himself a "home missionary elder" isn't incorrect.

The phrase "Home Missionary" has broader meaning within Christendom, particularly in Restorationist sects (Mormonism, Seventh Day Adventism, Jehovah's Witness, Church of Christ, and many others that came out of the Restorationist movement, so their vocabularies overlap).

Mormonism, compared to the rest of Christianity, is a rather lassez-faire (though morally strict) religion (i.e., a layman's church, no paid clergy, etc.). As a result, you have a lot of regional variation within Mormon culture. For example, I much prefer the attitudes of what I call "midwest Mormons" to those of "Utah Mormons". Though I lived in Australia from 2 to 4, I can't say I got a sense at that age of how "Australian Mormons" are. In general, Mormons outside of the west coast are usually more laid back than the culture that permeates in the Church west of Utah.

Disclaimer: I was raised Mormon in the midwest (Kansas City, Missouri, mostly). I slowly dropped out of the church between 16 and 18 and now describe myself as a "hopeful, spiritual, implicitly critical, explicitly skeptical, freethinking, existentialist, humanist, agnostic, atheist, anarchist".

Re:He is LDS (1)

swillden (191260) | more than 8 years ago | (#14878087)

See his family history page here: http://willden.org/Histories/histories.html [willden.org]

Those are *my* family histories, not Nigel Cunningham's. :-) Bleah... I *really* need to fix those pages...

Ward and Stake Missionaries are often referred to as Home Missionaries. So calling himself a "home missionary elder" isn't incorrect.

I've never heard ward and stake missionaries referred to as home missionaries. I suppose it's possible, though. However, ward and stake missionaries do not change jobs or relocate to accept such a calling.

Re:Home Missionary elder? (1)

nigelcunningham (959738) | more than 8 years ago | (#14880057)

Definitely not a Mormon :). No, I'm a member of the Christian Reformed Churches of Australia. I'm not sure where the term came from, but it's essentially a pastor, but without the requirement that the man who fills the position be able to be ordained in our denomination, and it's for congregations that aren't big enough to have their own minister. HTH.

Re:Home Missionary elder? (1)

bani (467531) | more than 8 years ago | (#14881316)

I currently reside in Salt Lake City, Utah, or as I like to call it, the mothership of the LDS church

When I lived there, we called it "Living behind the Zion curtain"...

And when ZCMI [wikipedia.org] still existed, we called it Zion's Collection of Mormon Idiots.

Go ahead /.'ers. Flame away. Mod me down. Only someone who lived in Salt Lake City in the mid-80s would get the in-jokes anyway.

Job... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14873589)

How much?

Re:Home Missionary elder? (1)

mcbridematt (544099) | more than 8 years ago | (#14873964)

Now I don't want to be rude but what we really do need here in Victoria, Australia is good software engineers and I can think right now of a spot for him a couple of cubes across from me where his knowledge of linux kernel internals could be put to good use.

Definitely. The only religious kids around in this part of the world (I live in Geelong, Vic, Aus) these days are those whose parents make them, other that, its either slightly-"I believe in a superior being but will never read the bible" religious or atheist. (Australia isn't a mega-extremist-religious place like, erm, 50-70% of the rest of the world, and if it was, I would've offended a lot of people by now)

Hope he enjoys his time enlightening those who do believe something, knowing the broken zero-innovation (excluding tridge and a few others) frucked up Australian IT industry could use a non-management type like him.

Need engineers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14874934)

If you need software engineers so badly, you should contemplate offering them something better than cubes. I'd take a job as a Home Missonary elder over having to sit in a cube any day. See, the problem with jobs like yours, much as with janatorial jobs, is that while we need people to do them, they suck. You sit in a little cube. You can hear conversations of everyone around you. You've got a machine spitting out 60dB of noise, and you can't do anything about it because it's the standard corporate setup, and everyone's required to have the standard corporate setup. You've probably got a firewall, that may or may not prevent you from reading your morning comics, but almost certainly does prevent you from sshing somewhere. You work long hours. You usually work on boring projects. If things go well, the rewards and recognition goes to the managers far more than it does to you. You, in contrast, are expandable, and the first to be lost in a downsizing.

Now, if you gave me an office, some privacy, some silence, and some respect, and you might get some code out of me.

Home Missionary is not a job (1)

Jizzbug (101250) | more than 8 years ago | (#14877208)

He is moving because of a church calling, not because of a job. This church calling is only a call to serve (probably at the Stake level), which he apparently is accepting. It is not a job.

The Mormon church is a "lay church"; i.e., it is run by the congregation, there is no paid clergy or leadership. There are leadership roles, of course, but they're not paid is the thing. There aren't really any "clergy" roles, though. The closest thing to clergy is the Bishop, but he's more of a manager/officiator for the Ward. Each member of the congregation is the clergy (known in mainstream Christian theology as the "ecclesia" or "Body of Christ").

So, when he gets to his new city at his new church, he will probably start to look for a Real Job(tm).

Be glad it was only a patch! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14873380)

I bet that if this software was embedded in the kernel we'd get the same devfs - udev debacle all over again...

Tragedy (4, Interesting)

d99-sbr (568719) | more than 8 years ago | (#14873444)

This is something that the Linux kernel badly needs! Presently, suspend and hibernation is at least 5 years behind OS X and Windows.

It takes almost two minutes to hibernate my Thinkpad with 512 MB RAM when running Ubuntu, while Windows takes about 15 seconds. Additionally, it does crash every now and then.

Re:Tragedy (1)

Kumkwat (312490) | more than 8 years ago | (#14873480)


Wierd, I can suspend my thinkpad T43 in about 30 seconds.

Tragedy? (1)

zome (546331) | more than 8 years ago | (#14873530)

for linux users maybe, but we all should be happy for him that he gets to do thing he likes.

Re:Tragedy (2, Interesting)

myspys (204685) | more than 8 years ago | (#14873682)

suspend and hibernation is at least 5 years behind OS X and Windows

I know hibernation exists in Windows, but OS X?

Can you please enlighten me, since I've totally missed this feature in OS X :-/

I hope you're not talking about Safe Sleep [andrewescobar.com] , which is only available in the newer Powerbooks and is not the same thing as hibernation (well, it works the same, but only works on the Powerbooks, where as hibernate works on any Windows PC)

Re:Tragedy (1)

miscz (888242) | more than 8 years ago | (#14873695)

I think there are some hacks that allow use of Safe Sleep on supposedly unsupported Macs. It doesn't work on everything but there are certainly other Macs that can use Safe Sleep.

Re:Tragedy (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14873854)

My Mac Mini can safe sleep fine [andrewescobar.com] , and it was a lot less hassle to set up than suspend2 under Linux.

SuspendNow [altervista.org] software is useful too, so you can hibernate on demand.

Re:Tragedy (1)

riflemann (190895) | more than 8 years ago | (#14873861)

It's not that bad!

i'm running standard ACPI suspend on a Fujitsu-Siemens S7010 laptop, and suspend at least twice each day (on the way to work and on the way home). Now, despite this:

bb@pepper:~$ uptime
  12:43:07 up 18 days, 22:02, 5 users, load average: 0.32, 0.39, 0.32
bb@pepper:~$ uname -a
Linux pepper 2.6.15 #3 PREEMPT Fri Jan 27 11:25:50 CET 2006 i686 GNU/Linux

And this is with USB, Wireless, audio, 3D graphics and a multitude of other modules and features, so I consider it to be pretty impressive at the moment. I've not yet really looked at suspend to disk, but to ram is very good so far.

Re:Tragedy (2, Interesting)

brunes69 (86786) | more than 8 years ago | (#14874349)

Hibernate is suspend to disk.

In Windows there is little reason to use suspend to ram, because suspend to disk is so damn fast (10 seconds down, 15-20 seconds up), and while suspended the laptop uses *0* power.

Like the parent said - suspend to disk in Linux is not in a good state right now. When it *does* work, it does so very slowly. When it *doesn't* work, it's a disaster and sometimes leaves your system in such a weird state you need to hard reboot and fsck your drives.

And don't even think about using it if you use the NVidia drivers.

Re:Tragedy (1)

AnyoneEB (574727) | more than 8 years ago | (#14879543)

Odd. I must be very lucky because I have a kernel with suspend2 on my laptop and using the hibernate script it seems to hibernate even faster in Linux than in Windows or at least about the same (both are usually 10 seconds). Unforunately, in Linux I have to disable hardware acceleration on fglrx (icky ATI drivers) for hibernate to work. On the other hand, I cannot get it to resume from sleep (suspend to RAM) at all.

Re:Tragedy (1)

adyus (678739) | more than 8 years ago | (#14874221)


I know the feeling, sometimes my Windows crashes too every now and then when I try to hibernate...

Oh, wait...

Re:Tragedy (2, Insightful)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875413)

You have the source. Grab a copy and get to work. That is the point of the GPL. It is only tragic if you don't want it enough to work on it or pay someone to work on it.

Re:Tragedy (1)

turnipsatemybaby (648996) | more than 8 years ago | (#14878169)

It always annoys me when I see posts like this. "Duh! If you don't like it, code it yourself!" It takes a great deal of skill and knowledge to code *any* piece of software. Coding something like a suspend/resume function is doubly so because you have to worry about all sorts of other stuff like hardware implementation screw-ups. Most people do NOT have the time to do something like this. Similarly, it costs *money* to do that kind of development. Like many thousands of dollars. This isn't some stupid webpage that you can pay your 10 year old nephew 20 bucks to make for you. It doesn't occur to most linux zealots that people just want to *use* Linux. Not everyone focuses their entire identity and reason for living, on an operating system. Given the state of everything, I think the question "Why doesn't it work yet?" is a perfectly reasonable question for a common user to ask. It works in Windows. Why doesn't it work in Linux? Comments like this are nothing more than blaming the victim. And moderators call this sort of knee-jerk comment "insightful".... Wow.

Re:Tragedy (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 8 years ago | (#14879084)

"It works in Windows. Why doesn't it work in Linux? Comments like this are nothing more than blaming the victim. "
1. It doesn't work all that well in Windows. My IBM Thinkpad has failed to come out of hibernation more than once.
2. What victim? No one makes you use Linux it is a choice. It isn't like Windows where you almost have to buy it if you want a ""Why doesn't it work yet?" is a perfectly reasonable question for a common user to ask." Yep and the answer is that it isn't important enough to enough people for resources to be allocated to it yet.
"Most people do NOT have the time to do something like this. Similarly, it costs *money* to do that kind of development. Like many thousands of dollars. "
EXACTLY! So if you don't like that Linux can not do it then I suggest you complain to the company you BOUGHT your distribution from. Or you find someone that is working on the solution and see if you can donate some money. Or don't use Linux and pay for Microsoft Windows or OS/X. I do believe that none open software has it's place.
But don't complain about someone that wants to not donate as much of there free time as they used to to a project that you value but pay nothing for.

the problem isn't Linux (1)

idlake (850372) | more than 8 years ago | (#14877670)

Linux has full support for suspending and hibernating; the problem isn't with Linux, the problem is with buggy ACPI implementations on laptops: most implementations simply don't conform to the ACPI specifications. They seem to have been created by hardware vendors fiddling with the implementation until it works, more or less, with the current version of Windows.

I also don't share your rosy views of suspend and hibernate on other platforms. On my Powerbook, there is no hibernate at all (although you can apparently enable it through the command line, and it hangs every now and then on restart. On the Windows laptops I have had, I have had numerous problems with suspend and hibernate as well.

Still, it is a shame that Suspend2 won't be integrated into the main kernel; when all is said and done, Suspend2 actually has worked better for me than any of the other solutions, precisely because it does not rely on ACPI or APM at all.

What are the alternatives? (3, Interesting)

Rytis (907427) | more than 8 years ago | (#14873508)

Is this the only software that can force my Thinkpad R50e to fall asleep? Aren't there any others?
I've compiled 2.6.15.4 kernel and the latest version of Suspend2 is for the 2.6.15.1 version. And now I am not even sure whether the patch is coming in a next month or it isn't coming at all.
Gee, I have to turn it off all the time.

Re:What are the alternatives? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14875201)

If the patch for 2.6.15.1 didn't apply to 2.6.15.4 cleanly Nigel would have released another patch. Generally the differences between the minor revisions aren't significant enough to warrant another patch. FWIW, I use the 2.6.15.1 patch on 2.6.15.4 and it applied/compiled/works just fine.

Re:What are the alternatives? (1)

Rytis (907427) | more than 8 years ago | (#14876697)

Thanks. I'll try it next time I'm recompiling the kernel. That's going to happen pretty sure, I guess.

Distributions responsibility (3, Interesting)

zaguar (881743) | more than 8 years ago | (#14873612)

This is an area where the major distro's - Ubuntu, Mandrake, Suse et al. need to pick up their game. Suspend2 is a great solution, but it is poorly integrated into the vanilla distro's. A few months ago, I tried Suspend2 with Hoary (Ubuntu 5.04) I had to:

1. Download Ubuntu kernel sources
2. Apply a patch-set
3. Recompile the kernel and install the kernel
4. And some other stuff I forgot - involving messing around in /etc and other areas - config files galore!

Now I havent tried it with Breezy, but I am pretty sure there is no .deb/script on UbuntuForums.

Why can't the disto's simply give the user Suspend2 fully integrated in their repective kernels?

Surely not stability issues, because it was bug-free for me. Even a simple choice would be miles better than what the current situation. The distro makers have dropped the ball, let's see them pick it up.

Oh wait - I just said that Ubuntu et al. is not perfect! Goodbye, karma.

Re:Distributions responsibility (1)

Kumkwat (312490) | more than 8 years ago | (#14873732)


I run OpenSUSE 10.0, to suspend, I go log out->suspend....

done.

Re:Distributions responsibility (1)

Fallingcow (213461) | more than 8 years ago | (#14873914)

Yeah, that also works with Ubuntu Breezy (5.10) on my IBM R40 laptop. Worked immediately after the installation, no mucking about necessary.

I think the parent poster needs to upgrade :(

Re:Distributions responsibility (1)

YU Nicks NE Way (129084) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875299)

No -- that's suspend to RAM, not suspend to disk. Suspend2 is the equivalent of Windows' "Hibernate".

Re:Distributions responsibility (1)

Fallingcow (213461) | more than 8 years ago | (#14878538)

Oh, so it is.

Anyway, I just tried Hibernate, and it works, too. Ubuntu 5.10, nothing special done to make it work, it just does.

This is sad... (1)

octopus72 (936841) | more than 8 years ago | (#14873776)

While LKLM flame wars are lead between source pourists and swsusp2 proponents, linux continues to lack decent hibernation support. suspend2 is pretty much hackish, but historically that didn't prevent many features ending up in kernel, even prematurely.

Re:This is sad... (1)

dpilot (134227) | more than 8 years ago | (#14874019)

I was about to put out a "Pick up the torch" post when I found yours, first.

Is there some sort of licensing issue with swsusp2?

Otherwise, I would have asked if there's any problem with someone else trying to push swsusp2 into the vanilla kernel. After all, the source is out there, isn't it? I haven't followed this in full detail, but I glanced occasionally at the threads.

I'm not resigning. (5, Informative)

nigelcunningham (959738) | more than 8 years ago | (#14873906)

I guess I didn't write that email well enough - I tried to clearly say I'm not resigning, just switching full-time jobs, and as a result won't be working on Suspend as much. Given that it's already pretty mature, this won't have much effect on it's development, and I'll still be producing patches for vanilla kernels. Hope that helps. Nigel

Re:I'm not resigning. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14874196)

what the fuck this is obviously a fake account. 1 post, look at his id number. Some asstard just registered this account to reply to this post.

Re:I'm not resigning. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14874218)

The asstard is you. Do you think the author of every open source project has a Slashdot account? What's the odds Nigel registered an account just to comment on this /. article?


Wait... wait... IFI. IHBT.

Re:I'm not resigning. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14881784)

Uhhh... 0.01%?

Re:I'm not resigning. (1)

astralbat (828541) | more than 8 years ago | (#14874362)

This is a shame, but oh well, these things happen.

I use suspend2 every day. It works fantastically well for me so congratulations on that. Your hard work has been _very_ much appreciated. I was hoping it would someday make it's way into the mainline kernel to replace the awful existing implementation. Perhaps the project is in need a new lead maintainer?

Lets hope this is still the beginning for suspend2!

Re:I'm not resigning. (4, Informative)

nigelcunningham (959738) | more than 8 years ago | (#14878173)

I don't think we need a new maintainer, but if it comes to that, I'd happily work with them. I still have lots of tidying up and improving the documentation to do first though. No sense making it harder for others to use and understand than it needs to be. Regards, Nigel

Re:I'm not resigning. (1)

jmv (93421) | more than 8 years ago | (#14874376)

Just curious, why are you giving up on having suspend2 merged in mainline?

Re:I'm not resigning. (4, Informative)

nigelcunningham (959738) | more than 8 years ago | (#14878210)

Mostly because Pavel has the death grip on the vanilla kernel. I'm still working on doing everything necessary to get it merged, including preparing a git tree. I figure that even if it doesn't get merged, it will make it easier for me to maintain and for distros to take up if they want to. Who knows - maybe Andrew and Linus will eventually decide to pick it up regardless of Pavel's objections. But they won't be able to do that if I don't get it ready. HTH.

Re:I'm not resigning. (1)

spinfire (148920) | more than 8 years ago | (#14876427)

Thanks, Nigel.

Suspend2 is indeed quite mature and while I wish it was merged in the mainline patching is so easy it doesn't really matter.

These days suspend2 has been fast, reliable, and even pretty with the fbsplash stuff. I would count it among the most perfectly working things on my laptop.

Misleading subject (5, Informative)

.tom. (25103) | more than 8 years ago | (#14874113)

This post's subject is misleading:
- suspend2 project is not suspended
- Nigel Cunningam will keep working on it
- it's only inclusion in vanilla kernel (mainline) which is unclear

Trying to make puns in subjects is not always a good idead...

Re:Misleading subject (1)

BobPaul (710574) | more than 8 years ago | (#14874778)

This post's subject is misleading:
- suspend2 project is not suspended
- Nigel Cunningam will keep working on it
- it's only inclusion in vanilla kernel (mainline) which is unclear


No, it is suspended. If it weren't suspended he would try to further the project. Instead he's going to maintain the patches at their current status --> No new features, no new hardware bug fixes. If it doesn't work for you now, it still won't so don't bother waiting.

He's going to update the patch to work with new kernels and that's it. That's suspended.

Re:Misleading subject (2, Informative)

nigelcunningham (959738) | more than 8 years ago | (#14878241)

Hardware bug fixes aren't really my domain. Traditionally, I have included some so that suspend2 users don't have to go searching for extra patches, but they really belong upstream to start with so swsusp users can benefit too. New features... well, I think I've run out of things that need to be added. If you have a suggestion, I'd certainly consider it.

Re:Misleading subject (1)

DJ_Art (669538) | more than 8 years ago | (#14882027)

The subject *IS* misleading, face it, as with most /. subjects.

I'd say it is unfair for suspend2 not to be included in the vanilla kernel and I'd use a subject that is more offensive towards the kernel developers because we have so many other features in there but not this one that is really great, really working and almost ready for shipping in the kernel.

Such a behaviour from kernel maintainers would make any developer be dissapointed and not wanting to throw in more energy in his project.

That's fine. (3, Interesting)

Inoshiro (71693) | more than 8 years ago | (#14874412)

The correct answer is that the kernel needs to do this, not userland (per suspend1), because of all the layers that need their information preserved. Having any kind of userland help doesn't work, because suddenly you've broken the "every process is equal" approach to the scheduler. But it's also not correct to throw in a huge, complicated interface (suspend2).

The correct answer is something like outlined here [lwn.net] : " If you want my cheerfully uninformed opinion, we should toss both of them out and implement suspend3, which is based on the exec/kdump infrastructure. There's so much duplication of intent here that it's not funny."

You just have to reserve memory for a dump kernel. It's a much better trade off than making the scheduler stupid (suspend1), and keeps your kernel conceptually much simpler than a fancy kernel internal API (suspend2).

Re:That's fine. (2, Informative)

nigelcunningham (959738) | more than 8 years ago | (#14878269)

I'm sorry, but saying that shows a lack of understanding of how complex using kexec would really be. It's designed for a completely different purpose, and mangling it to do suspend would be complicated to say the least, and require the user to set aside a considerable amount of memory that just isn't really necessary.

Whiners... (0, Troll)

galenoftheshadows (828940) | more than 8 years ago | (#14877518)

Ok, looking around, I see lots of people complaining about how suspend2 is not going to get into the kernel now. Well, if you're so intent on getting it merged, why not pick up the sword and start trying to make it happen yourselves? Don't just sit back and complain, do something about it if it means that much to ya!

Re:Whiners... (1)

Cheapy (809643) | more than 8 years ago | (#14881096)

You obviously aren't American.

Re:Whiners... (0, Troll)

galenoftheshadows (828940) | more than 8 years ago | (#14884054)

Sorry, dude, Aurora, Colorado. Born and raised.

Re:Whiners... (1)

Nakarti (572310) | more than 8 years ago | (#14881897)

That's a mediocre attempt at flamebait, you fool.
Nobody's complaining about how suspend2 isn't going kernel, they're saying, from what I see, suspend1 sucks, suspend2 sucks too but not as bad, and something should be done at the kernel level.

Re:Whiners... (0, Troll)

galenoftheshadows (828940) | more than 8 years ago | (#14884084)

Not at all, I'm just saying that for a lot of people complaining that it's not going to get into the kernel, I don't see anyone here willing to carry the torch. If they don't think it should be in the kernel, then quit whining about it not being there.

Or do something about it...

If I wanted to see Suspend2 in the kernel, I'd get off my lazy rear and start pushing to get it there, even if it did mean a total rewrite of it.

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