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IBM Germany Leaving Vista for Linux

CmdrTaco posted more than 8 years ago | from the that-just-seems-strange dept.

351

UltimaGuy writes "During a presentation on IBM's involvement with Open Source, Andreas Pleschek from IBM in Stuttgart, Germany, who heads open source and Linux technical sales across North East Europe for IBM made a very interesting statement..."Andreas Pleschek also told that IBM has cancelled their contract with Microsoft as of October this year. That means that IBM will not use Windows Vista for their desktops. Beginning from July, IBM employees will begin using IBM Workplace on their new, Red Hat-based platform. Not all at once - some will keep using their present Windows versions for a while. But none will upgrade to Vista." "

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351 comments

f1rst p0azt (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14875526)

f1rst p0azt

Redhat? (4, Interesting)

weg (196564) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875531)

Why Redhat? Didn't IBM cooperate with SuSE so far, or has this changed when SuSE was taken over by Novell?

Re:Redhat? (2, Insightful)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875586)

That's my question too! Why RedHat? SuSE, in my opinion, is better than RedHat both on the server and desktop. This is not to say it (SuSE) has no issues at all. I find that its YaST is too slow and looks ancient, not to mention the fact that it will run through all those config scripts even when no configuration is changed at all!

Re:Redhat? (1)

weg (196564) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875630)

Don't get me wrong.. I didn't say that SuSE is in any way better than RedHat (I'm using Ubuntu and a Mac). I'm just wondering why IBM switched from SuSE to RedHat. If this is indeed true, SuSE has lost more users (in relation to their user base) than Microsoft.

Re:Redhat? (3, Funny)

LehiNephi (695428) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875637)

I'm sure they have good reasons for choosing RedHat. Better support, maybe, or lower price, or perhaps they have a business arrangement with them.

Geez, you guys remind me of the techs at userfriendly [userfriendly.org].

Re:Redhat? (0)

tolan-b (230077) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875708)

Personally I use Ubuntu, but forced to choose RedHat or Suse on the desktop it would be Redhat every time.

Re:Redhat? (1)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875745)

> Personally I use Ubuntu, but forced to choose RedHat or Suse on the desktop it would be Redhat every time.

...And the reason is...?

Boy, doesn't this subthread prove Dell right? (5, Insightful)

Tran (721196) | more than 8 years ago | (#14876033)

The top level post was a clear enough question regarding business relationships, but one level down the argument already is about which distro is better.

Re:Redhat? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14875694)

Just FTR: IBM has an ownership stake in Novell

Re:Redhat? (0)

Penguinoflight (517245) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875725)

SuSE is redhat based, and it does a better job it than Redhat. SuSE was a german company, IBM germany likely is still using at least parts of SuSE to implement their own distribution.

Re:Redhat? (3, Informative)

10Ghz (453478) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875910)

"SuSE is redhat based" is it, really? Or do you think that since SUSE uses RPM's, it's "based on Red Hat"?

Re:Redhat? (1)

DTC-Bob (897743) | more than 8 years ago | (#14876158)

IBM put $50MM into the Novell/SuSE deal -- presumably to ensure that SuSE remained stable for their mainframe Linux offerings. I am a bit of a SuSE advocate, so I am also surprised since SuSE is originally from Germany... Who knows? Bob

Vista? (1, Funny)

Zebadias (861722) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875533)

If I have to upgrade from win2k it will not be Vista. I will just have to find another way of playing games!

Re:Vista? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14875835)

You could just grow up.

news denied (5, Informative)

baxterux (575852) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875534)

heise a german news site has just published an articles saying IBM denied the claims http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/70532 [heise.de]

Re:news denied (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14875587)

Pffft. Yeah, like I'm going to visit a German scheise website. Keep your perversions off Slashdot!

Re:news denied (1)

dreemernj (859414) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875618)

Interesting. Thanks for the post, I never would have found that one otherwise. It sounds like they are making some switches away from MS but it doesn't sound like they are just going cold turkey on MS products.

I wish we had an audio recording... (5, Interesting)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875642)

Companies not ready for disclosure of things of this nature almost always flatly deny them occuring- just witness XGI being bought by ATI recently; both companies denied they were doing it- but they did it anyway. I've little doubts that they may have done this- they've been building up to it for several years now. Now whether it's actually going to happen, on the other hand, remains to be seen.

Re:I wish we had an audio recording... (5, Informative)

A beautiful mind (821714) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875819)

But there is video [dotsrc.org].

Or this [linuxforum.dk] one in case the first is overloaded.

(Groklaw article where I took the links from is here [groklaw.net].)

Ugh... Windows Media... (1, Informative)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875991)

Why do people insist on using THAT format? There's actually BETTER formats out there that are supported
officially on more than just Windows.

Ah well, that's a different argument, and I'll keep working that one elsewhere...

Re:Ugh... Windows Media... (1)

6*7 (193752) | more than 8 years ago | (#14876095)

It's because atleast 95% of all desktops have that codec already installed. Making users install other "non-standard" codecs in the default media player is a PITA.

Babelfish translation (1)

OzPeter (195038) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875740)

IBM disclaims rumors around one complete-transferred to Linux sound reports over the LinuxForum in Denmark on Groklaw and Neoseeker a IBM coworker in a lecture explained there, IBM wants to use in the future Linux on the host computers. Contracts with Microsoft were already quit, which coming Windows version Vista will not be used at IBM. Announcement In a statement opposite heise open got IBM straight the role of open SOURCE often commodity and open standard in the enterprise. One began to change the PC jobs over to IBM Workplace Client which is based on the open SOURCE projects Eclipse and OpenOffice.org and both runs on Windows and on Linux. Also one supports the platform-independent open SOURCE Browser Firefox, and some employees would already use Linux on their PCS. However Microsoft Office on many jobs plays and also at most customers a large role, so that one does not plan to do without it. As open formats for data exchange set IBM on pdf and rtf, the open document format is not yet ripe for the general employment. Windows Vista is evaluated at present, a decision is not yet pleases. IBM co-operates closely with Microsoft and also in the future Windows solutions will offer. The rumor, the Ms Office contract with Microsoft ran out in the past year, did not want not to commentate one (odi/c't)

Re:news denied (4, Insightful)

Crazy Man on Fire (153457) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875766)

There's no way that IBM can convert to Linux until it has ported Lotus Notes. So far, employees using Linux have to run Notes using Wine. It is not very stable and some functions don't work. Until I see a Linux port, I won't believe this news.

Re:news denied (1)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875974)

Lotus on windows isn't very stable either. Possibly some of the worst email / calendar applications on the planet.

I never used to like outlook, but after having to use Lotus, followed by Groupwise, I believe outlook wins hands down.

Re:news denied (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14876123)

Those who never used it, don't realize how bad it is. It is a slow, bloated, POS with an ugly, unintuitive interface.

Re:news denied (2, Interesting)

Dare nMc (468959) | more than 8 years ago | (#14876025)

> no way that IBM can convert to Linux until it has ported Lotus Notes.

Web Client!
I have seen the notes web client grow to look almost exactly like the desktop app, only feature I see missing is archiving. With the company I work for, in their Sarbanes-Oxley related transisition, their already trying to downplay the use of email archives as acceptable. So I look for it to be banned at my company within a year, removing the need for supporting that PC app all-together.
The other obvious missing ingrediant is offline email composing, and hanheld synch. The first, the notes client isn't especially good at anyway. the second is taken care of by 3rd party apps today.

Funny you should say that... (5, Informative)

wild_berry (448019) | more than 8 years ago | (#14876050)

Funny you should say that: I saw Ross Burton write on his blog [burtonini.com] (via the Debian blog planet [debian.org]) of a Groklaw post about Linux Forum Day 2 [groklaw.net], from which Mr Burton quotes:
At the end of the presentation, Andreas Pleschek revealed that the laptop he used for the presentation was running a pre-release of their new platform, the Open Client. It is actually a Red Hat work station with IBM's new Workplace Client, which is built in Java on top of Eclipse. Because of Eclipse, it runs on both Linux and Windows, and they have been able to reuse the C++ code in Lotus Notes for Windows to run it natively on Linux via Eclipse. Internally in IBM, for years, they have had a need to run Lotus Notes on Linux, and now they can. And they will offer it to their customers. Workplace uses Lotus Notes for mail, calendar, etc. and Firefox as their browser. For an office suite, they use OpenOffice.org.


It seems that the new IBM thing, Workplace has Notes running natively.

Re:news denied (2, Interesting)

MemoryDragon (544441) | more than 8 years ago | (#14876150)

That to my knowledge is one part of the workplace desktop.. The desktop more or less is an eclipse based universal application shell it even has an office integration. I saw the thing during a presentation at IBM a while ago, cool stuff.

babelized (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14875767)

Read bellow, sounds to me like they didn't really deny it, just said some jobs still needed *MS office*. MS Office is very different to Vista, as crossover and wine demonstrate. It hardly rains on the story or the planned massive migration, or constitutes a huge "denial".

"According to reports on the LinuxForum[1 ] in Denmark on Groklaw[2 ] and Neoseeker[3 ] explained there a IBM coworker in a lecture, IBM wants to use in the future Linux on the host computers. Contracts with Microsoft were already quit, which coming Windows version Vista will not be used at IBM. In a statement opposite heise open[4 ] got IBM straight the role of open SOURCE often commodity and open standard in the enterprise. One began to change the PC jobs over to IBM Workplace Client[5 ] which on the open SOURCE projects Eclipse[6 ] and OpenOffice.org[7 ] is based and both on Windows and on Linux runs. Also one supports the platform-independent open SOURCE Browser Firefox[8 ], and some employees would already use Linux on their PCS. However Microsoft Office on many jobs plays and also at most customers a large role, so that one does not plan to do without it. As open formats for data exchange set IBM on pdf and rtf, the OpenDocumentFormat[9 ] is not yet ripe for the general employment. Windows Vista is evaluated at present, a decision is not yet pleases. IBM co-operates closely with Microsoft and also in the future Windows solutions will offer. The rumor, the Ms Office contract with Microsoft ran out in the past year, did not want not to commentate one."

Re:news denied (5, Funny)

node 3 (115640) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875893)

I checked the site, but it was in German.

Laut Berichten über das LinuxForum in Dänemark ...

It appears that Laut Berichten announced at LinuxForum in Denmark that they are switching to Super DOS.

I hope that clears things up.

IBM sold its consumer PC division (1, Informative)

bfizzle (836992) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875535)

Remember IBM sold its consumer PC division to Lenovo, so this will only be on their high end workstations. Good for IBM for doing it, but not such a big deal.

Actually... (5, Informative)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875563)

I believe this was said in terms of thier internal machines, not the deliverables.

Re:Actually... (1)

bfizzle (836992) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875597)

Ahh my bad... I actually read another article this morning that failed to meantion the fact.

Re:Actually... (1)

Yonder Way (603108) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875994)

IBM no longer sells PCs or laptops. That's Lenovo now. Or, if you prefer, the Peoples Republic of China.

Re:IBM sold its consumer PC division (1)

dreemernj (859414) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875583)

Actually the article is talking about the desktops that the employees use, not computers that IBM sells to the public.

Re:IBM sold its consumer PC division (1)

TangoCharlie (113383) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875585)

I think the article is referring to the PC's that IBM people have on thier own desktops rather than the PC's IBM (doesn't!) sell.

Now, is that IBM Germany, or more Worldwide? (4, Interesting)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875536)

Either is compelling as a statement from Big Blue, but the latter of the two is much more devastating
as it means QUITE a bit of revenue on MS' part.

Re:Now, is that IBM Germany, or more Worldwide? (5, Insightful)

swillden (191260) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875684)

Either is compelling as a statement from Big Blue

IBM's CIO has already made clear that IBM's direction for its employees' desktops is Linux. Back in 2004 he released a statement that IBM would standardize on Linux desktops by the end of 2005, but it was quickly realized that was too ambitious a goal. There's just too much stuff in IBM that is tied to Windows. Still, it's widely recognized that Linux *is* the direction, worldwide, even if there isn't a specific timeline in place.

As an IBMer who uses Linux as his desktop platform for work, I read these sorts of announcements with glee because they just reinforce the message internally that new internal IT systems should not require Windows and that old ones that do require Windows need to be replaced. At present I still have to keep a Win2K VMware image around to deal with the occasional Windows-specific internal tools, and to deal with the occasional Office doc that OOo can't manage. As more groups within IBM move more aggressively away from Windows, however, I expect to need that image less and less, and someday I won't need it at all.

ObDisclaimer: I'm an IBM employee, but not a spokesperson. Everything I've said about IBM's plans and policies is just my vague memories of publicly-released information. If you find official statements that contradict mine, I'm wrong.

I'm not surprised (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14875537)

I can't say I'm surprised. In conjuction with Microsoft's involvement with the Trusted Computing Group, and the TPM hardware appearing in new PCs [slashdot.org], the next version of Windows (Vista) will solidify Microsoft's near total control over the desktop.

Having TPM hardware in the machine at all is bad enough... if you move to Vista there will (quite literally) be no escape. The computer you purchase will not belong to you and will be deliberately designed to be secure against you, rather than for you. Vista will be the software component of this lockdown.

Now look at IBM -- for them to base their business around Vista would make them *completely* under the control of Microsoft. Their desktops could be secretly backdoored, their data locked down and only accessible with the permission of Microsoft. 100% Bill's bitch. Why submit to that when you can (and are) pay off Red Hat to work on a Trusted Computing version of the Linux kernel (google for the project)... and have that kind of control yourself?

Smaller companies and normal consumers though... that's a different matter. They are going to be screwed royally with the introduction of Vista. They just don't realise it yet, and won't until they've paid over their cash to Dell or HP. DRM throughout the system (apps and data), and all under the control of Uncle Bill and his Rights Management Servers.

This applies to all users of Vista (2, Insightful)

DFJA (680282) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875724)

>Now look at IBM -- for them to base their business around Vista would make them *completely* under the control of Microsoft.

Note that this applies to All users of Vista, not just IBM.

Just in case you were thinking of upgrading.....

Re:This applies to all users of Vista (1)

DogDude (805747) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875785)

Really, what kind of "control" will Microsoft be able to exert over users of Vista, exactly? I know you're a troll, but I'm curious to see if you can back this troll up with any kind of reasoning. Let me guess.... you read somewhere that armed thugs come *free* with every purchase of Windows Vista?

Re:This applies to all users of Vista (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14875978)

That's what the OP said, if you read right to the end.

Re:I'm not surprised (1, Insightful)

Deathlizard (115856) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875794)

IBM could do this now, there's a Security chip [ibm.com] in most IBM laptops, Heck, the security tech used in TCPA was Developed by IBM [zdnet.com]

It would be suicide for them to drop MS, because everyone and their uncle will just switch to Dell, and they know it. He's probably talking about what they are doing internally at IBM, which I wouldn't be surprised if it was running AIX or some in house mainframe system.

Re:I'm not surprised (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14876106)

IBM don't sell PCs anymore.

Re:I'm not surprised (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14875800)

Err, IBM are a member of the TCPA. If true, this just confirms a general trend in computing, the rejection of the monopoly.

Mod parent up (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14875921)

The whole concept of Vista requiring new hardware is going to be a real challenge. If ever there should be a perfect time for a non-MS alternative to emerge and provide a smooth link with past/present/future hardware, this is that time.

IBM has little to gain by enriching Microsoft and accepting a DRM world. They have a great deal to gain by presenting a viable alternative. It will be very interesting to see Asian manufacturers gearing up to make non-DRM hardware that they KNOW will not play with Vista. If Lenovo leads, others will follow.

Microsoft's best alternative is to go the X-Box route. Subsidize the hell out of the fast-but-crippled new hardware so to drive acceptance of the software. Then the whole package acts like a cash register, where users, developers, and service providers can be made to pay to play.

The concept of "software as a service" aka the "Net PC" failed because the cost/benefit was simply not there. It still isn't, but the mircale of subsidized hardware can make it look that way long enough to get the customers to swallow the poisoned pill.

Re:Mod parent up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14876097)

No... IBM want this DRM hardware very badly, in fact they are one of the main members of the Trusted Computing Group. They understand all too well the level of control it represents, but they just don't want Microsoft to have that control. They want to control it themselves... he who controls the kernel, controls the machine... hence their work with Red Hat on a TCPA version of the Linux kernel. And hence, allegedly, Linus Torvalds reluctance to use the GPL v3 for the Linux kernel (it would prevent this kind of abuse) -- IBM is one of the companies that pay his wages through the OSDL, after all.

If you want an interesting challenge -- try getting an official statement about Red Hat's corporate position on the GPL v3 being used for the Linux kernel, or getting them to go on the record at all about their plans for TCPA.

Leader of the pack (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14875541)

"Not all at once - some will keep using their present Windows versions for a while. But none will upgrade to Vista."

And why should they? What does Vista give IBM that their present solution doesn't?

Re:Leader of the pack (1)

ndg123 (801212) | more than 8 years ago | (#14876102)

One reason is support. You can't leave your systems on old software if you want vendor support, such as service packs. But since extended support for Win2k lasts til 2010 (and in fact most laptops are XP) - this won't kick in for a few years. 4 years to migrate off the platform is achievable.
Another reason is having a trophy linux desktop installation - even if it is your own organisation, 300,000 seats is quite a handy example to tout when selling.

IBM starts using IBM Workplace (5, Informative)

digitaldc (879047) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875548)

Re:IBM starts using IBM Workplace (1)

vicino (919217) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875693)

It's rather clear how GNU/Linux is a more superior computing platform, the surprise to me is always not how some big company or organization is moving to it, but how so many seem to be so afraid of offending microsoft (by ditching it once and for all). It's probably unrealistic to expect from such a big and important company such as IBM to come out one day with a statement "Hey everyone, as of yesterday, no more ms stuff, world-wide", but rather something hapenning gradually like this. If this is it.

HAL (4, Insightful)

xzanthar (543209) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875553)

If IBM is not going to move to Windows Vista, does that mean that more people will see some more of the advantages of moving to Linux?

Somewhere in Redmond... (5, Funny)

One Louder (595430) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875575)

...the chairs start flying.

Won't somebody at IBM please think of the chairs?

Re:Somewhere in Redmond... (1)

HeavyMS (820705) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875620)

You know what...... the chair trowing was fun the 1204819841981469191 time but now it's just old!

Re:Somewhere in Redmond... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14875848)

... but now it's just old!
Like the only people in Korea who use e-mail?

*ducks*

Not Shocking (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14875588)

Seeing as how IBM espouses the virtues of Linux, I'm surprised it took them this long.

I'll bet (1)

endrue (927487) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875594)

I'll bet that this is not an idealistic change but a thrifty one. I certainly wouldn't want to upgrade all the workstations!

I think its A matter of time (4, Insightful)

MrShaggy (683273) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875605)

We have seen that the open-document-format take hold, and now the big iron is pulling away from MS, shortly after. Given some more time, I think that we will see this trend continue. We will see more and more with ODF, taking MS's place. Even to the point of having document converters, to go from .docto .odf. This also the time to see the movement of the massess to a linux environment. I think you will see tax-programs, et al. moving because of the ODF as well. I think that there will be a lot of script-style viri as well that will go throuigh everyones documents, ala the excell virus. The only reason that all this stuff didnt happen on larger scale, was because of the different formats. But if every Joe-Linux Distro includeed a nice easy-top-use office, and all that, it would be easier to switch. MS will become another smaller company.. It's innovations were in the 90s. Im ure that they will keep up for some time.. But this is a huge financial blow to them.

Somewhat missleading article title (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14875608)

You can't leave something you aren't already with. The only people currently using Vista are all beta testers, or software pirates.

Exaggerations! (5, Insightful)

blackmonday (607916) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875635)

Its BS to say that "no one will upgrade" to Vista. Are you telling me that software developers will not be using Vista at all? It's a ridiculous notion for a company that develops hundreds of products for the Windows OS.

You don't know what's going to happen... (1)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875689)

They might just leave Windows support at the XP level (Not likely, mind, but there's nothing other than potential customer alienation to keep them from doing that...). They might require only the Windows product development teams to have Vista, etc. and require everyone else to use RedHat and Workplace (Which is very likely...)- if you're not doing Windows development, you may not get to upgrade to Vista (Which, in a company that size, is effectively "no one will upgrade"...).

Re:Exaggerations! (5, Insightful)

Penguinoflight (517245) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875899)

IBM will not be forced to upgrade to vista. Their software runs server side, and almost all of it is supported directly by IBM. There is no reason in fact for IBM to support Vista, and by doing so support Microsoft.

Think of it this way: If nobody supports vista, nobody will have to support vista! While IBM moving away from microsoft is a move in the right direction, IBM will not be able to crush Vista on their own, they will need help.

The only group that will need to support Vista is game developers. Most (with exception of Epic, iD, and a few others) have gone so far to avoid opengl, and embrace directx, they will be forced to adopt Vista just to keep things moderately insecure (Microsoft will strategically drop security support for xp soon enough).

It should be noted, there is no reason for game devs to support windows; It's far too insecure for gaming, and that wont get any better. A move to linux (and with it FreeBSD by binary compatibility) would allow devs to go with only 2-3 major platforms: OpenGL for PS3, linux/PC, and possibly nintendo revolution. Of course you would have to support directX for xbox360, but over time the extra cost to develop for microsoft would probably kill their projects.

We have come to the point where the time to move away from microsoft is NOW, but unfortunately it will take a while for vendors and developers to realize that.

Re:Exaggerations! (2, Insightful)

IDontAgreeWithYou (829067) | more than 8 years ago | (#14876066)

"It should be noted, there is no reason for game devs to support windows"

You mean other than the fact that Windows is on ~90% of all PCs. I really don't think that's a market they are going to just give up on. It is obviously well worth their effort to develop games for Windows.

"It's far too insecure for gaming"

I can see an OS being too insecure for doing financial transactions or storing personal information, but gaming...

... but are they still stuck with Notes? (2, Insightful)

supersnail (106701) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875646)


Most IBM slavelings don't care about windows vis redhat vis suse, if only they would dump Lotus notes client everybody would be a lot happier.

Re:... but are they still stuck with Notes? (1)

tscheez (71929) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875686)

stuck with notes? i was hoping that would mean a native linux version of notes.

Re:... but are they still stuck with Notes? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14875990)

Check out the info on Hannover. That release will add a native client option on anything that can run eclipse.

Next Notes client is Eclipse-based (4, Informative)

mccalli (323026) | more than 8 years ago | (#14876002)

stuck with notes? i was hoping that would mean a native linux version of notes.

As I understand it, the next Notes client will be an Eclipse-platform rich client. Here's an article about it [eclipsecon.org]

Cheers,
Ian

2007 Year of Linux on the Desktop ? (1)

alexhs (877055) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875655)

:)

BTW you can't leave what you haven't joined and MS Windows Vista isn't out yet. They're leaving Microsoft OS...

Old news, already on Digg (-1, Offtopic)

shodson (179450) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875657)

Hmm, this was interesting news when I read about it on Digg.com YESTERDAY! Wake up /.

Waaaaah, I need my news NOOOOOW... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14875731)

Oh my, 24-hour-old news. Imagine if something -- anything -- happened somewhere in the world, and you didn't hear about it for a few hours. How would you get through the day?

I mean, sheesh, are the editors so out of touch that they don't spend every waking minute reading press releases so that they can whip up blog entries within milliseconds?

Re:Old news, already on Digg (0, Offtopic)

Tweekster (949766) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875885)

OMG, you mean it was posted somewhere else within 24 hours prior.... OMG it might as well be a year ago now.

Oh happy me! (2, Insightful)

ZX81 (105194) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875667)

Great news, it's about time that someone started rolling Linux out onto the Desktop in a large enterprise.

Someone has to be the beta tester! :)

Ridiculous (-1, Offtopic)

HappyUserPerson (954699) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875697)

IBM is a consulting company - they provide hardware and software to support other company's infrastructure. The idea that they will convert their clients and potential clients to GNU/Linux is a kind of ridiculous in a market dominated by Windows.

Which means that they'll lose market share to consulting companies who didn't make it a corporate policy to be ignorant of new market-dominating technology.

IBM has made a lot of contributions to Linux, but they certainly have not positioned it to credibly compete head-to-head with Windows. Of course, IBM got out of the end-to-end software engineering business, so they're not in the position to do that.

It is worth noting that (according to the article) that this misguided policy may be only regional; which is a good thing for IBM -- limit the damage.

Re:Ridiculous (4, Informative)

jb.hl.com (782137) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875754)

Did you RTFA? Or even TFS (the fucking summary)?

This is about INTERNAL desktops. i.e, IBM's employees will mostly be using Linux systems to do their day to day work. They can still recommend Windows to clients.

Re:Ridiculous (1, Insightful)

SCHecklerX (229973) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875844)

Just because they have to support companys with messed-up infrastructure does not mean that they have to mess their own up as well. Why does a salesperson, or an executive secretary need to run any M$ stuff vs. IBM's workspace? Why would IBM want to run M$ DNS/DHCP/IIS/ISA for their infrastructure when they have superior products of their own?

Leveno implications? (1, Offtopic)

mccalli (323026) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875771)

I wonder - does this imply that Leveno's machines will now be in Linux-supporting default configurations?

I realise the PC business is being sold, but I imagine IBM internally uses IBM-style PCs and I hazard that this might well continue on to Leveno PCs. If they're all moving to Linux, then the hardware must support that.

Cheers,
Ian

Making the switch (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14875784)

Making the switch is actually a lot easier than most people think, especially when you have a helpdesk/systems department maintaining all the machines. We have just over 1000 CentOS based workstations at my office in use by techinical and non-technical employees, even marketing types. There is a couple mailing lists that people can ask questions to for help and get instant answers. Rsh is even open on all the machines so us technical guys can commandeer other CPUs at night.

Linux is bad news (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14875797)

It's a FACT that Linux was used by terrorists to plan 9/11. Without Linux it wouldn't have been possible and that is a proven fact. Linux should be outlawed and it's users imprisoned and/or executed for terrorism and supporting terrorism. You linux users are murderers!!!

Still Just Noise (4, Insightful)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875832)

I think it's all just posturing so far. But would be a great move if it happened.

The problem for any corporation updating to Vista is that you rather have to replace most of your hardware along the way as well.

And upgrade your memory. Over on The Inquirer [theinquirer.net] they're reporting that Vista consumes 800MB of RAM while idling. This is absolutely insane to someone who first started using computers in the early 1970's. There just isn't that much stuff that an Operating System should be doing. And yes, that really is 3X XP's current requirements, the thought of which certainly is warming Intel's little heart.

Seems to me if MS wants to keep IBM in the fold they should be offering to buy them all new desktops.

Re:Still Just Noise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14876082)

umm ya, I have the Vista beta and it definetly does NOT use 800mb or RAM, the inquirer article consists of nothing but some guy who emailed them a screenshot, not knowing what applications are open or anything, anyone who takes that as so kind of proof is an idiot.

Re:Still Just Noise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14876161)

That article's screenshot:

A: doesn't show what is running on that system, so the assertion that this is "at idle" is specious

B: shows PAGE FILE USAGE which is not RAM usage, proving that both the enquirer AND YOU know fuck all about memory use in moderm computers

BTW: my WinXP box currently shows 414Mb of page file usage...

As a long time IBM partner & watcher.... (5, Interesting)

CFD339 (795926) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875856)

Its global, and pervasive.

This has been coming for a long time. Remember that IBM has been one of the largest forces behind Eclipse. Not because its great as a development platform -- because its got potential as a great APPLICATION platform.

Roughly 50% of the large enterprise email market is using IBM Lotus Notes. You may not like it, but its true. Different studies wieght it differently by a few points to either side. Pick the study and you can find all kinds of results. The counts are close enough that the difference is accounted for by what you count as client use, who gives you the numbers, etc. For example, MS typically likes to count anyone who owns Office as an Outlook user which will skew the numbers quite a bit. Regardless, the market is split nearly in have between MS and IBM for that market with small shares going to a few other players (like Groupwise).

* Keep in mind, we're talking LARGE ENTERPRISE here. Annecdotes about companies under 500,000,000 in gross revenue don't count.

IBM has been pushing Linux at the desktop in their offices where possible for at least three years. One thing holding them back has been that their own platform, Notes, doesn't run easily on Linux natively. The reason isn't Notes -- which was built to be cross platform, resulting in some often critisized UI choices. The reason is the same as so many other companies don't support Linux for the workstation. Its difficult to make a generic installation and maintenance solution.

With Eclipse as the base, IBM has spent a few years on their new WORKPLACE products. The grand plan is pretty different from what they've ended up with, but they are very close to roll out of their "Hannover" product which is Lotus Notes (actual, real code - not rewritten or made compatible) with a UI done in Eclipse. On top of that, Eclipse becomes Workplace Rich Client when you add a few plug in layers which allow managment, server based rollout and maintenance, and other portal stuff they use.

It also handles off-line use and synchronization for out of office and traveling.

It works. I've seen it. I've played with it.

What that means is that their "killer apps" -- those applications critical to the success of people working in IBM offices don't even need to be "ported". They're in Lotus Notes applications already and keep working as they have. Also, their Email client works as it always has.

Add to this that Workplace has Open Office based applications built into it as well, and a new thing called an "Activity Explorer" (which IMO is going to be the most important NEW thing from them).

Tie it all together and they can do everything they need to do without a Windows based application. They've cut themselves free entirely.

What IBM has done is not just TALK about making a linux desktop workable -- they've created the missing pieces so that they can actually support their own massive workforce with such a rollout.

Bravo to them.

what about the US (3, Interesting)

Douglas Simmons (628988) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875980)

I'm glad to see other countries widely adopting Linux, but it seems a disporportionate number is coming from the rest of the world versus the US (with the occasional exception). Is this because the US is somehow more open-source-close-minded and anti free (and better tasting) lunches?

Cancelled MS contracts? (5, Funny)

pfaut (18898) | more than 8 years ago | (#14875992)

Why do I sense that this will spawn the mother of all BSA audits?

Lets hope they document the process (2)

merc (115854) | more than 8 years ago | (#14876015)

It would be nice if there were documented evidence of large enterprise migrations to Linux for the desktop. I work in an I.S. capacity for a very large health care organization, (7B/year, >10,000 employees), recently the head of Information Systems has been hitting up our group to find ways to reduce costs. I wanted to point to the obvious use of using alternative operating systems but at this point too much of our infrastructure depends on niche software, such as Remedy and PVCS Tracker for tracking large projects and I.S. requests.

Additionally there is a very heavy use of MS-Office, especially Word and Excel. It would be valuable to see what the large-scale effect of drop-replacing an alternative Office product such as OO.o has on an a large business -- especially with regards to training.

I think IBM's idea of migrating in piecemeal is a good one.

This has just one purpose.... (1, Insightful)

malraid (592373) | more than 8 years ago | (#14876061)

... big ass discount. It's almost like telling MS, give us a better price, or will switch. And of course MS will go as low as possible to prevent a switch. And IBM saves.

Why is this news? (2, Interesting)

HangingChad (677530) | more than 8 years ago | (#14876078)

Because IBM is big? Many companies are experimenting with Linux on the desktop. Many more are starting to use Thunderbird and Firefox for email and web browsing, including some very large defense contractors that I won't name here. That makes the underlying desktop platform less important and makes the transition easier if they ever decide to switch.

I see this same trend among my own customers. There is real preperation going on for NOT moving to Vista. Some of them will probably role anyway, but lately the trend is to move business critical apps to web-based alternatives and move away from MSFT proprietary clients like Outlook and IE. Preparation that makes switching the desktop OS much easier.

I think many would merely use it for leverage to squeeze concessions out of MSFT, but based on the amount of interest and effort I'm seeing doesn't look like posing. It seems serious this time. MSFT will have to come up with better discounts. A few vouchers for training and support calls aren't going to cut it.

Exciting times to be in IT.

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