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Blizzard CEO Lays Gay Guild Issue To Rest

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the our-bad-sorry dept.

296

Edge Online reports that Blizzard CEO Paul Sams has responded to the GLBT Guild issue that flared up in World of Warcraft a while back. From the article: "... he again characterized the earlier decision to prohibit mention of real-world subjects in recruiting for guilds as an 'unfortunate mistake,' which only came about because the initial comments weren't properly analyzed before sending a warning. 'It is expected and accepted that players will discuss a wide variety of topics, based on both the game world and the real world,' Sams says. 'Players are free to discuss personal characteristics if they wish, to include their sexual orientations and gender identities.'

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Lesbian MC Run (1, Funny)

jlavarj (541976) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892226)

A Fraps of that would be HOT!!!!

Huzzah (5, Interesting)

jorenko (238937) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892242)

I must say that this was pretty much the only possible acceptible thing that Blizzard could have done to resolve the situation while keeping my respect. Cheers to Mr. Sams and everyone else involved in resolving this so well.

Re:Huzzah (5, Insightful)

88NoSoup4U88 (721233) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892581)

Er... an even -more- acceptible thing would have been if he said this right after the incident happened:
Not after the accountants/PR people told him.

Re:Huzzah (1)

jorenko (238937) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892711)

Okay, I'll give you that one. Better late than never though.

Re:Huzzah (1)

bi_boy (630968) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893154)

Ditto. You just can't make some people happy though.

Re:Huzzah (1, Flamebait)

geekoid (135745) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893047)

Even more respectable would ahve been if they applied the EULA instead of cow towed under pressure.

Now we can look forard to the anti gay guild chatter, anti Jew guild chatter pro Nazi chatter, etc . . .

Wow (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14892247)

"Blizzard CEO lays Gay Guild"?!? Now that's customer service!

Re:Wow (2, Funny)

Kingrames (858416) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893166)

Better than "Blizzard CEO Lays Gay Guild to Rest," that's for sure.

Eh... (4, Insightful)

Kyokugenryu (817869) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892258)

I agree with Blizz's previous statement of not having real world issues present in the game, such as a gay guild. I don't know what server they play on, but the amount of gay bashing and whatnot I see in barrens chats, I can only imagine how much arguing and whatnot would be caused by them boldly proclaiming they're gay in their guild title.

Re:Eh... (1, Insightful)

funpet (836434) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892337)

They already have the real-world issue of gender present in the game. It would be inconsistent to allow players to discuss their character's gender (and even make gender a required in-game aspect of every character) without allowing players to discuss their character's sexual orientation.

Re:Eh... (3, Insightful)

Kyokugenryu (817869) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892371)

That's totally fine if you're discussing your character's sexual orientation, but when you're discussing your real world sexual orientation, that's beyond what the WoW world is supposed to be about, and from what I understand, they were doing this based on if you were gay in real life or not. If I made a gay Tauren, but wasn't gay in real life, would they deny me membership?

Re:Eh... (5, Insightful)

ADRA (37398) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892673)

Dude, seriously. Have you ever mentioned gender,age,work,family,personal angsts,etc..

I don't know how you play, bug the guild I'm with is pretty tight on our own personal lives. None of this is 'in-game' appropriate by your standards because its not in character. The only place that should enforce in-game character is in RP realms that ironicly was the 'safe' place to talk about GBLT guilds when bliz first responded.

It is inevitable that you will talk about your personal lives in game and as long as there is a chat function in game, you HAVE to expect a human being to talk about their real selves at least to some extent.

About your own gandparent post about more discrimination, you're missing the point completely.
1. I don't know of a single gay person that hates all straight people (they may exist, but are by far a minority), so if someone starts a 'gay' guild they're actually starting a gay-friendly guild. That means that they only allow in people that can accept their lifestyle.

2. Being 'outed' in the game doesn't mean much considering there is a harrasment policy thats enforced. If you call a gay person a ---, whatever they can report you. If you know they're gay and you don't want to group with them, thats your right. Its an easy policy to appease.

3. The ability to distinguish gay-tolerant vs. gay-bashers is the key to this whole issue from the get-go. If I was gay, I'd like to associate with people that don't think I'm going to burn in sinful hell. If you don't allow for channels of dialog to allow people to communicate, you could have a guy join a guild and become perfectly happy with it until one night, some drunk player starts spweing hate with the rest of your group joining in, then you realize, "Oh crap, these people hate -me-", so the common ground you thought you were forging with these people was an illusion. So, what do you do? Quit the guild and search for another one, hoping that they're more tolerant?

I don't want to change people, though I wish they'd grow up. I want people to be given the opportunity to find a group of people that are tolerant to them, and the pre-article state of affairs left that ability to find that group unnecessarily restricting.

Re:Eh... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14893518)

> 1. I don't know of a single gay person that hates all
> straight people

You do now, ya' breeder. ;)

Re:Eh... (1, Funny)

zxnos (813588) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892649)

so, are straight guys using female avatars considered lesbians? :P

Re:Eh... (5, Insightful)

Eric S. Smith (162) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892363)

I don't know what server they play on, but the amount of gay bashing and whatnot I see in barrens chats [...]

If Blizzard will allow anti-gay sentiments to fly freely, surely they must allow pro-gay expressions as well.

[...] I can only imagine how much arguing and whatnot would be caused by them boldly proclaiming they're gay in their guild title.

But forbidding it is saying, "Stay in your closet, the bigots were here first," or something similarly silly. It amounts to choosing a side, in any case, and that's something that Blizzard seems to have decided against doing.

thank you (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14892438)

"Stay in your closet, the bigots were here first,"

In less than 10 words you summed up the original problem. Maybe it was easy for you to write, but it expresses EXACTLY what the problem is and what people have spent hours trying to get their brains around.

It's the bigots who are the problem here, and they should not be appeased. Maybe they shouldn't have done to them what I'd personally like to do to them, but they definitely should not be catered to.

Re:Eh... (3, Funny)

Amouth (879122) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893023)

it is a f*cking game.. who cares.. i am not for either side here..

i don't think it should have been an issue to begin with..

reminds me of a friend that tried to get me to play EverCrack by saying "it's soo cool you can even sit and watch a sun set" i then promptly pointed out the window and told him to go outside

Okay. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14892417)

When you say something like that.

You are basically telling any gay people reading that they are "real world issues", and that you don't want to have to deal with them in your game.

Do you have any idea how that comes across? You are basically saying that persons who are gay need to just plain shut off that part of their personality when playing WoW, because WoW is a fantasy world where "issues" like gay people don't exist. Okay, so let's say you get your way, and we're rid of all those pesky "issues". Straight people don't have to be bothered by the reminder gay people exist anymore. Yay.

Except that this suddenly makes WoW a place both very hostile and very very "real" for the gay people-- because they suddenly find themselves in the very real-world, and very archaic, situation that they are gay, they just can't talk about it or bring it up in public. Does this sound like a step forward to you? Do you think it would sound like a step forward to the people it would be happening to?

Re:Okay. (2, Insightful)

Kyokugenryu (817869) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892549)

There's a HUGE difference between bringing it up in an appropriate situation and saying "WE'RE HERE! WE'RE QUEER!". If they were a guild with a standard name with members who all happened to be gay, I wouldn't care at ALL. NO ONE would. But if someone made a guild named the Ku Klux Klan and only recruited white supremacists now, would they have the same protection? I'd have to undoubtedly say yes, because if Blizzard is going to say the expression of your real world sexuality is fine, and naming a guild after a real-world advocacy group, then they can't say other groups can't do it as well.

Re:Okay. (1)

babydaddy (960332) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893118)

Don't be an idiot. No one's saying "we're here, we're queer" and the guilds in question are still not allowed to discriminate based on those type of criteria. Furthermore, guild names of the type you're proposing violate the terms of use. It's just like character names.

You might actually try to learn something about the issue before you start screaming that the sky is falling. It just makes you look like a fool.

Re:Okay. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14893331)

All the poster said was IF...

Very true. (2, Insightful)

WidescreenFreak (830043) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892442)

Definite agreement here. There must be responsibility on the part of any guild who would do such a thing. Honestly, how would any guild advertise something that goes against many people's societal norms and NOT expect to be targeted for it? I personally don't care as long as they don't pull an "in your face" attitude about their guild; but we all know, whether from experience or reading of others' experiences, that there are people out there who will cause problems anyway. Just being realistic here, folks.

Blizzard did the right thing by backtracking the way they did, but that doesn't mean that guilds should go advertising thier "differences" given this Blizzard reversal. They'll just be trouble magnets for less scrupulous people, particularly those that can now hide behind the anonymity of the Internet. Sadly, I would not be surprised if there are guilds in formation now with the sole purpose of targeting any openly gay guild.

What a wonderful world. :/

Re:Very true. (1)

vitaflo (20507) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892952)

Honestly, how would any guild advertise something that goes against many people's societal norms and NOT expect to be targeted for it? I personally don't care as long as they don't pull an "in your face" attitude about their guild;

Read what you wrote again and tell me how this is any different from the normal trash talking that goes on between guilds on a daily basis in WoW. There are guilds with reputations, both good and bad, on every server, for a variety of reasons. Some even brag about them, and are very "in your face". Do you not think those guilds get targetted? There are several guilds on my server that we have a Kill On Sight rule against for various reasons. This has existed in WoW since day 1.

To say that a guild can't define itself in some way is ludicrous. Guilds have been doing it all the time whether they like it or not just by their actions. If people want to give that guild crap about it, hey, that's part of the game! I'm sure any gay guild that advertises as such is willing to accept the backlash, same as any other guild who may piss someone off in some way.

Re:Eh... (2, Interesting)

babydaddy (960332) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892716)

The argument that all mention of real life "issues" in-game should be forbidden strikes me as the argument of a hard-core role-player. If you're saying, "I don't want to hear about anything that happens on your side of the keyboard, ever," that's fine, that's just role-playing. It would be nice if you stated you're an RPer, but we'll forgive you that omission.

But if you're saying "I don't want to hear about things I personnaly find icky on your side of the keyboard," then you're probably a hypocrite if you've mentioned - even once - that your wife has dinner ready, that your homework is due, or that you have to work in two hours and still haven't slept.

Why? Some people don't want to know you have a wife because they think wives emasculate their husbands. Some people don't like young players. And some people look down on those who have to work for a living.

If you don't want some players to tell you about some aspects of their lives, you're a hypocrite if you divulge any aspects of yours.

This just in: WoW GMs aren't very bright (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14892285)

Film at 11.

wait wait wait wait... (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14892303)

Hold on... Liberals won?! In the United States, in this conservative day and age, with politicans and corporations bending over backwards to appease the religious right, and capitalism trumping everything... ...and you're telling me the liberals won one?!?

WOO-HOO!!!

Re:wait wait wait wait... (1)

The Angry Mick (632931) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893060)

Heh heh. That freeedom thing is a real bitch, ain't it?

Re:wait wait wait wait... (1, Insightful)

TheNetAvenger (624455) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893213)

Heh heh. That freeedom thing is a real bitch, ain't it?

Na, I think more people are just shocked it still exists in various places in the United States after 4 years of King George. :)

But hey don't worry, he just established 'anther governement program' for a religious department in the Govt.

Love the conservative Republican Ideals King George has, which are to 'stick his nose into everyone's lives, even circumventing states rights, and the ability to keep spending and increasing the size of the Government to the biggest in history.'

Clinton's administration was at least being good Republicans, by reducing the size of government to the lowest it had been since the Kennedy Administration, and keeping their nose out of State's rights.

I know this is a big sidetrack, and a bit tongue in cheeck, but can anyone define themselves anymore by a party?

The Repulbicans are spending us to death, sticking their noses into state and persoanl rights, and the recent Democratic leaders did the opposite and are currently fighting the massive pork barrel projects in congress that Bush NEVER vetos. Strange...

When I hear that the democrats don't have clear vision, I realize the republicans don't either, but they are more loyal to just walk in line with the party leaders for the sake of the party instead of having real internal debate. Both parties are screwed up right now, but it seems the Repulicans don't realize it or just go with the top down direction of the party to at least appear cohesive.

I have people on both sides in congress I love, but they never reflect what their party tries to say they are.

Re:wait wait wait wait... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14893231)

We need to identify the degenerates before we start gassing.

Re:wait wait wait wait... (1)

DistantShadow (901883) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893239)

with politicans and corporations bending over backwards to appease the religious right...and you're telling me the liberals won one?!?

so, does that mean the politicians and corporations should start bending over forwards?
-ds

Re:wait wait wait wait... (1)

tarkas (238632) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893317)

...and capitalism trumping everything... ...and you're telling me the liberals won one?!?

Actually, capitalism did win one - this was certainly in the best interest of the corporate brand. Good will is nice to have and hard to get - this balanced decision will certainly help. I sort of doubt there are many folks on WoW with an undead necromancer of a Druid (pagan scum!)who would describe themselves as "Religous Right". I hastily add that I do indeed have a necro and a druid on EQ and that IANARRWJ(1)...

Had this been a Liberal win, all newbs would complete a sensitivty quest.

1. I Am Not A Religous Right Wack Job

sensitivity quest? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14893388)

This isn't about imposing beliefs on anybody else. This is about having the right to say who you are.

I know there's a lot of perceived hypocrisy involved when gays are allowed to announce their beliefs and when anti-gays aren't, but here's the thing... the gays only want control over their own lives. It's the anti-gays who are going all fascist.

and the wow forums ring with... (2, Funny)

FunnyLookinHat (718270) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892346)

/sign

*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14892360)

So apparently Blizzard has to remain politically correct in their fantasy world. This is really too bad, actually, because the action should have gone through in the first place.

Let's take a quick look at the harrassement policy [blizzard.com] page. Notice under "Highly inappropriate" they have "Sexual Orientation" listed.

Now scroll down to the "Situational Factors" and notice that the public channels (which were the ones the guild was using) are considered to have the strictest regulation of speech on them. If they wanted to talk about GLBT stuff in their guild chat, that's fine. (Note that sexual orientation is NOT listed as disallowed in guild chat.)

They were bringing up sexual orientation in a public chat channel. By the rules they agreed to when signing up for the game, their account would be suspended for 72 hours. There's nothing wrong with that! It's a FANTASY GAME! GLBT chat is fine in a private guild, but it is SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED over the public channels.

It's really depressing to see Blizzard cave in on this issue over concerns of being politically correct. I don't want to be exposed to GLBT chatter over PUBLIC CHANNELS. If they want to do it in the privacy of their guild, that's cool! But it should NOT be allowed in public channels.

Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (5, Informative)

rabel (531545) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892424)

*sigh* Care to explain what's so offensive about GLBT chatter on the public airwaves? If it's over-the-line sexual discussion, it should be banned outright regardless of the orientation. Isn't that what you really meant to say?

Doesn't matter if it's offensive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14892659)

It doesn't matter if it offends people or not, it has nothing to do with the game. /1 LFG MC poo jabbers only

No thanks. Keep non-game related talk out of public channels.

Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (0, Offtopic)

geekoid (135745) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893028)

it is irrelevent to the game.
And, no matter what you want to think, the majority of people are offend by homosexuality. yes it is sad, but there you are.

Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (5, Insightful)

babydaddy (960332) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893174)

That just means the majority of people are bigots, right? So if bigots are the majority, that makes it OK?

Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (0, Troll)

0racle (667029) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893410)

Welcome to the real world, just like making disparaging remarks about people believing in a god is currently ok, welcome and even illustrates that you must be one of the intelligent enlightened in current society. On top of that, you do not have to be a bigot to not want to hear about being gay, peoples political opinions, religious beliefs or whatever when you play a game.

It's a game and people play it for entertainment and relaxation. Leave your problems in the real world where they are your problems, not mine.

Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (2, Insightful)

Rei (128717) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892430)

And for that matter, they should be forbidden to discuss their race or their religion. Everyone should appear in the game as a straight, white Christian male. We need a pure WoW environment! Warcraft uber alles!!

Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (4, Insightful)

Lord_Dweomer (648696) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892495)

"I don't want to be exposed to GLBT chatter over PUBLIC CHANNELS. If they want to do it in the privacy of their guild, that's cool! But it should NOT be allowed in public channels."

If you were referring to discussion about GLBT issues and discussion topics...that would be one thing...but what the hell is wrong with advertising that something is friendly to those people. Its the same as having an advert for any other type of guild. This wasn't "chatter"...it was a fairly succinct advert.

Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (1)

Manitcor (218753) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892955)

The instructions SPECIFICALLY SAID......."DO NOT TAUNT HAPPY FUN BALL"!!!!!!!!!

Your just a nacy boy, the happy fun ball must be taunted.

WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14892548)

If you read the clarification, the website says the rule refers to comments that

Insultingly refers to any aspect of sexual orientation pertaining to themselves or other players
(http://www.blizzard.com/support/wowgm/?id=agm0131 5p#sexualorientation [blizzard.com]


I fail to see how advertising a GLBT Guild insultingly refers to anyone's sexual orientation.

Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14892613)

I don't want to be exposed to GLBT chatter over PUBLIC CHANNELS. If they want to do it in the privacy of their guild, that's cool! But it should NOT be allowed in public channels.


The simply solution to this is add them to your ignore list, its there for a reason. If you don't want to listen to it then it is your choice not to. I don't see how this is any different than any of the other spammers out there that people ignore on a regular basis.

Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (2, Informative)

Silent sound (960334) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892615)

Here is what the terms of service say:
Language which falls under the following categories is deemed to be highly inappropriate. Clarification on what constitutes each category can be found by clicking on the links below.
...
Sexual Orientation
This category includes both clear and masked language which:

        * Insultingly refers to any aspect of sexual orientation pertaining to themselves or other players

If a player is found to have used such language, he/she may:

        * Be temporarily suspended from the game
There is a category in the table of contents of your link named "sexual orientation", but the actual text of that part of the terms of service refers only to insulting speech, not any speech having to do with sexual orientation at all.

Basically you're wrong-- you're either lying, or you didn't read your own link before pasting it-- you're misquoting the harassment policy, and no, this rule does not at all cover the GLBT chat used by the guild.

It's funny how you're basically saying that in order for World of Warcraft to not be "politically correct", in your way of defining things, World of Warcraft would have to purposefully censor speech which you find objectionable. Funny, sounds to me like you are the one demanding the gay people be "politically correct", by conforming their speech to your politics.

Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (1)

darkhitman (939662) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892763)

If the GBLT guilds wish to advertise on local chat, that's fine with me.

"[. . .] but it is[sic] SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED over the public channels."
I would assume you don't mind the occasional spam, so I'm confused about what additional chat would be/would not be allowed over local chat. Discussions about the best gay sex positions? Barrens chat about the hottest gay actors? I don't really think any of the GBLT (sounds like a sandwich) WoW players really want to discuss that stuff with all of The Barrens as audience, anyway.

Hence, I must ask for clarification of what local chat you think the average WoW player's sensibilities might be offended by.

Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (1)

Covetous Knight (957894) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892935)

They were bringing up sexual orientation in a public chat channel. By the rules they agreed to when signing up for the game, their account would be suspended for 72 hours. There's nothing wrong with that! It's a FANTASY GAME! GLBT chat is fine in a private guild, but it is SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED over the public channels.

A common sentiment, but unfortunately it doesn't work in this case whatsoever. It would be nice if you could play a game where no real life chatter goes on, but it's simply not the case. In fact, on the servers I have seen - there is more non-game related chatter than game-related chatter. I'm not exaggerating.

If you're really that offended by people discussing their sexuality or gender identities, you might consider ignoring them. Or maybe search for a game that prohibits all non-game chatter.

Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (1, Informative)

d_strand (674412) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892974)

No. They said they where gay/lesbian-friendly. Cracking down on that is the same thing as cracking down on a guild being rp-friendly or danish-friendly or whatever. It's so ridiculous it's not even funny.

I actually canceled my wow-subscription over this. To be honest I was looking for a reason to cancel but whatever.

Re:*sigh* Gotta be Politically Correct in fantasy. (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893165)

"..guild being rp-friendly "
that is a game references.

beready for the danish-hatefull* guilds advertising.

*alright, no one could hate the danes, but you get my point.

People are celebrating already (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892988)

Just the other night, when I was lagging, I had someone in my raiding party call me a useless fag. At first I thought he was insulting me, but now I relaize that he was just celebrating Blizzard's new policy of openess to discussions regarding sexual orientation. Good for him!

-Eric

However (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14893040)

The "public chat channels" aren't really public. They are owned by Blizzard. They run on Blizzard's hardware and are only accessible to Blizzard's customers on Blizzard's terms. They are private channels.

Now, as you correctly pointed out, Blizzard's policy stated that GLBT chat is not ok, and Blizzard would have been within their rights to silence it, since the channels are privately owned. However, Blizzard chose not to. They can do that too, since its theirs.

What was their motivation? My guess is that it had something to do with keeping the greater percentage of their customers happy. Blizzard is a business, and making money will always take priority over political correctness (though it will happen in some cases that the most politically correct thing to do is also the most potentially profitable thing to do, which is what they did).

Now, lastly, you said that you don't want to be subjected to it. You have several options. You can turn off the channels. You can put people on your ignore list. You can go play on a server that does not have such guilds. You can go play a different game entirely. This last option is the most significant, in fact. If you want Blizzard to see things your way, your final option is to stop giving them your money until they do. If you want to keep playing anyway, well, you will just have to put up with a little freedom of speech.

Re:However (1)

babydaddy (960332) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893324)

You have your facts wrong.

Blizzards online realms, while privately owned, are considered a public accomodation under California law, and they are therefore forbidden from discriminating against any persons defined in state anti-discrimination statutes.

Blizzard's policy was not to forbid GLBT chat. It was to forbid insulting references to sexuality.

The implication that they were going to change their policy to forbid GLBT chat is what started this whole controversy, but in the end, they said that their policy is not changing.

Get that? Nothing's changed.

Finally, anyone who doesn't want to be subjected to certain things and objects so strongly should probably read all of Blizzards terms of use and policies before they click "I Accept" and pay their money.

But what really makes me laugh is that people like those in the thread parent are freaking out over a policy that has always been in place, and has never changed.

"Gay Guild"? (2, Informative)

gorbachev (512743) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892361)

It wasn't a gay guild, it was gay-FRIENDLY guild.

Re:"Gay Guild"? (1)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892439)

God this PC nonsense has gone too far.

I guess they aren't "gay bars" anymore, they are "gay-friendly bars"?

Is anal sex "gay-friendly sex"?

Re:"Gay Guild"? (4, Insightful)

AoT (107216) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892501)

I'm not gay and I would join a gay-friendly guild.

You know why?

Because I would be more comfortable in a guild that is accepting of gays.

Why is this shit so hard for people to understand?

Re:"Gay Guild"? (1)

aesiamun (862627) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892602)

Yeah but do they advertise about being Suburban white boy friendly guilds? No? Shouldn't it be assumed that they are friendly first...and possibly advertise that they aren't?

I can see it now:

Knights of Authoritative Ruling is Gender, race, gay, lesbian, puppy, kitten, gold fish, furry, vegan, vegetarian, republican, democratic, green, socialist, communist, nazi, jewish, christian, ...ad nauseum, friendly guild looking to recruit. We'll give you 10G just for signing up!

Re:"Gay Guild"? (1)

AoT (107216) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892652)

Do they really need a guild that is inclusive of at least half the current userbase?

Re:"Gay Guild"? (1)

linzeal (197905) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892609)

Agreed, I have a level 60 undead rogue with half an epic set and one of the things that got me to stop paying the monthly fee was the constant immature banter in public chats. They need to make a 25 year old+ server or something.

Re:"Gay Guild"? (4, Insightful)

geekoid (135745) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892998)

I perfer a guild that doesn't even care enough for sexual orientation to come into it at all.

Re:"Gay Guild"? (1)

CkB_Cowboy (731756) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893085)

The guild you join doesn't have to advertise themselves as "gay friendly" to actually be gay-friendly.

And besides.. you should join a guild such that when you want to play the game, you can do so with a bunch of people who don't suck. Sexual orientation doesn't help me kill monsters any faster (unless I'm beating them over the head with my staff of infinite sodomy, I suppose)

Re:"Gay Guild"? (0)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893177)

Because I would be more comfortable in a guild that is accepting of gays.

Unfortunately for you then, I believe the guild in question isn't accepting heterosexuals.

Re:"Gay Guild"? (1)

jorenko (238937) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892577)

A GLBT-friendly guild is a guild in which the members can be assured that they aren't going to have to listen to people say, "thats so gay lol," every time they get ganked. Really, it doesn't amount to a whole lot more than that.

Re:"Gay Guild"? (1)

fatphil (181876) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892747)

'I guess they aren't "gay bars" anymore, they are "gay-friendly bars"? '

My girlfriend and I used to hang around with a bunch of mates, the majority of whom were gay, and we would often head out towards what were certainly best described as gay-friendly bars. Fortunately they were straight-friendly too, but I expected no different. I don't object to the term "gay bars", and would happily apply it to the places we went to, but to pretend that by default they would be exclusive would be a sign of ignorance. (Amusingly, we both could have pulled on a few occasions, had we been so inclined!)

Of course, we never went to the Blue Oyster Bar...

FP.
(Not hanging around with the same bunch of mates only because we moved country, before you ask. Quite missing them - they were a scream!)

P.S. UK-ish 'mates' = US-ish chums/pals. Nothing to do with 'mating'! :-P

Re:"Gay Guild"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14892503)

Just like slashdot is gnaa friendly?

I can't resist (1)

kid_oliva (899189) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892422)

Hmm... a Gay Troll Guild... wouldn't that be most of us on /.

Perspective (4, Insightful)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892461)

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog [unc.edu] Unless, of course, you join a dog-friendly guild.

Re:Perspective (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14892623)

What is the name of the guild? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14892477)

The fudge packing crue?
The Shaved Gerbils?
The skin FLutes?

Accept reponsibility rather then punt. (1)

Halloran (182820) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892492)

which only came about because the initial comments weren't properly analyzed before sending a warning

Right... like the GM's in World of Warcraft have everything they state to players reviewed constantly to ensure accuracy. "GM's for GM's?"

This looks to me like another example where the corporation (Blizzard) has screwed up, and rather then accept responsibility for its mistakes has decided to place the blame on the front-end, and thus easily replaceable, customer service team.

yay real world! (2, Interesting)

minus_273 (174041) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892507)

yay! now my fantasy world is firmly grounded in reality! we can now also have republican guilds fighting democratic guilds, nazi guilds killing jewish guilds (on sight)! Lets not forget the Al-queda horde of saudi players! this will make exciting stuff! how far will blizzard allow this to go? are we going to allow all types of special interest groups? is it limited to sexuality or can we include politics and religion?

I think this is the last straw. No more wow for me. Its not a fantasy wolrd to escape to anymore

Re:yay real world! (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892756)

emacs guilds doing constant battle with vi guilds!

Re:yay real world! (2)

Kesch (943326) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893009)

Bah, not even an issue. It is obvious that vi will win as they will find all variations of their enemies much faster. The emacs users will not have time to activate all their features. They better hope that they can C-x C-s fast enough to avoid total anihilation.

P.S. Btw, where do I sign up for these guilds?

Re:yay real world! (1)

smokes2345 (959661) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892787)

/sign ridiculous indeed, its a game, leave politics in its place.

Re:yay real world! (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892948)

no it's not, and what he is speculating will happen.
OTOH, if the next generation of fighting in the mid-easy happens in a computer game, that I am all for it.

mid-easy..haha (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892971)

mid-easy

That is both a typo and an ironic statement.

Re:yay real world! (1)

babydaddy (960332) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892831)

Can I have your stuff?

There was an alternative (4, Insightful)

metamatic (202216) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893313)

Hey, Blizzard could have chosen to ban all the real-world stuff and ban all the Christian guilds. That would have been just as acceptable. Sounds like that's what you would have preferred, so why not lobby them?

What was pissing people off was banning some real-world social preferences but not others.

Cancelled Account (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14892657)

I will not be exposed to true faggot dark elves, and fat obese ugly lesbo trolls. I just cant have it, fucking gives new meaning to the word sword swallower!

Re:Cancelled Account (1)

Kingrames (858416) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893195)

but they were playing the game before, it's just now that they can join a like-minded guild.

Re:Cancelled Account (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14893520)

You know, even if you people don't want to admit it, the fact that these people were promoting their guild as GAY, should earn them a ban. Do you see straight guilds advertising, "Hey! We're straight! Join us!" No. You know why? CAUSE NO ONE FRIGGIN CARES ABOUT SEXUAL ORIENTATION. Oh yeah, cept the gays.

You gay people look for ANY reason to get pissed. It's starting to look childish. If people tell you that they don't want to hear about your lifestyle, what do you do? You go make Brokeback Mountain and ruuuub it in reeeeaaal good.

In this case, you are playing a goddamn video game. This is not PUBLIC, you have NO FUCKING RIGHTS, so stop bitching because YOU want to be considered more SPECIAL than the rest of us and have these rediculous things allowed. Afterall, you're telling me that you must advertise your guild as gay to get anything done? Pathetic.

GROW UP AND GET OVER YOURSELVES, YOU HOLYWOOD FUCKS.

Re:Cancelled Account (1)

meringuoid (568297) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893481)

I will not be exposed to true faggot dark elves

True Faggot? That's a new one on me. I've seen chaotic good, awful evil, True Neutral... is True Faggot something unique to WoW?

Everyone knows what dark elves are like anyway. Filthy sods. Hell, elves are all a bit morally questionable. I mean, you never see a half-dwarf. Or a half-hobbit. Unless they're called Quarterlings or something.

Laid to rest? (0, Troll)

xtieburn (906792) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892776)

So Blizzard has backed down on its policy, and this is somehow more free now? I wonder.

Can someone now start a guild that excludes GLBT? Can someone discuss, without being threatening, there dislike of GLBT people without being reported?

Id take a guess and say doubtful. After all GLBT people may find it offensive and thats what the rules are there to stop. Oh but hang on. How is that different to people being offended by GLBT discussion and guilds?

I dislike defending biggots and the intolerant but freedom in these things should be universal else it is nothing but a damaging double standard and a dangerous one at that. As I said in a previous post (One that I got marked as a troll for so im not expecting happy joy joy feelings at this rant.) this is a double edged sword and Blizzard have seen fit to blunt one side of it by saying people cant be offended by GLBT but can be offended by those against GLBT. That is unless they are perfectly fine with anti GLBT sentiments but that opens the flood gates in an entirely different set of arguments.

The rule was simple and ment no one no matter what there thoughts on the issue would have to get bogged down with views on sexuality. I.e. they were perfectly reasonable. Now whether it was Blizzard or this Lambda group handling it badly really doesnt matter. Backing down and then claiming its case closed isnt going to work. I wouldnt be surprised if there was a backlash to this. After all maybe me refering to something bad as gay could be considered offensive enough to report now. While perhaps someone of GLBT persuasion could make lewd sex act refrences but be impossible to report because that would be crippling there freedom. I dont know because we no long have simple universal rules anymore.

Itll probably all be fine. Theyve probably reached a happy balance, but lets just say Im glad Blizzard are only determining freedoms within an online game and nothing more. The biggest problem with this whole debate was that it had to take place at all.

Re:Laid to rest? (1)

babydaddy (960332) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893029)

After all maybe me refering to something bad as gay could be considered offensive enough to report now. While perhaps someone of GLBT persuasion could make lewd sex act refrences but be impossible to report because that would be crippling there freedom. I dont know because we no long have simple universal rules anymore.
All your woe and dispare is kinda foolish because what the COO (not CEO, as the title says) said is that the rule never changed, and still hasn't. He's saying punishing someone for saying "GLBT" in game was not an appropriate response. And yes, saying "gay" when you mean "bad" was always punishable, and should continue to be. But if you actually read the Blizzard policies on harrassment, you'd know that descriptions of sexual acts are, and continue to be, forbidden. I can't tell if you're a troll, or just not very intelligent. Either way, you seem to be reacting based on bias rather than reason or logic, and that doesn't speak very well of you, either.

Re:Laid to rest? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14893198)

this is a double edged sword and Blizzard have seen fit to blunt one side of it by saying people cant be offended by GLBT but can be offended by those against GLBT. That is unless they are perfectly fine with anti GLBT sentiments but that opens the flood gates in an entirely different set of arguments.

People shouldn't be offended by the EXISTENCE of other people. Think about a guild that has a lot of black people in it. Your logic would say that it should then be fine to have anti-black guilds also.

Re:Laid to rest? (3, Funny)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893475)

People shouldn't be offended by the EXISTENCE of other people.

      You've obviously never been to 0.0 space in Eve...

Link to Original Story (1)

Covetous Knight (957894) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892805)

Found here. [kotaku.com]

I think this is awesome, even if it is only the result of legal pressure applied from Lambda Legal and probably not done because it was the 'right' thing to do.

Role Playing as gay (4, Insightful)

Cy Sperling (960158) | more than 8 years ago | (#14892887)

Many arguments keep bringing up the idea of keeping 'real world' issues out of the fantasy game. So, what if the character you are playing is gay? If one were to open a gay themed guild, requiring members to stay in character, is that then still a problem? I don't see how a fantasy game precludes any sense of character's sexual identity. It is patently ridiculous to think that all characters in a fantasy game must be straight and any deivation from this means people have slipped into 'real world' identity. How many straight guys play female characters and would jump at he chance to cyber with another female player? Role-playing is about assuming a character. I can see people being upset about players talking about 'real world' things in such a way that it breaks the game's illusion- but in that context you can't pick and choose which 'real-world' topics offend- they ALL should. But, if the character is played as gay wholly within the context of the game world, how is that a problem?

Re:Role Playing as gay (1)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893183)

The characters in question are incapable of having any kind of sex at all, rendering the roleplay aspect pretty much moot. The races in question appear to reproduce by pan-dimensional soul recruitment, and may seem to share the same soul to boot.

Re:Role Playing as gay (1)

Silent sound (960334) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893355)

The characters in question are incapable of having any kind of sex at all, rendering the roleplay aspect pretty much moot.

Then why can they already marry?

Eh... (1)

bamzam229 (960342) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893080)

What happened to just having fun? I'd rather belong to a casual group that doesn't specify any ideological belief, but still has a guild chat that is comfortable for all who is in that group. It's more loose. It's just generally not a problem. There's rarely a problem. Things get said, but are taken care of by a case-by-case basis. In any ideology based guild, there's a no-tolerance thing, and it just brings a less friendly atmosphere. Friendly to me isn't an enforcment of feel good stuff, but a place where things can be talked about without fear of being labeled something.

Legal liability..... (1, Interesting)

katorga (623930) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893217)

8 year old gets recruited to gay guild, recieves inappropirate chat/tells in game, parents take a screenshot and hand over to a lawyer. Blizz gets sued for enabling child molestation. Parents and child walk away with millions.

Re:Legal liability..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14893292)

Woot all faggots ares child molesters.....

Opportunity!!!! (0, Troll)

rewinn (647614) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893230)

1. Set up server where gay and anti-gay guilds can fight it out 2. Recruit all those jerks protesting at funerals 3. ??? 4. Profit!!!! ---- (At the least, it might move some of those jerks out of real space onto WoW, where they can get their butts well and truly kicked!)

Look For My New Guild! (2, Funny)

Cranky Weasel (946893) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893274)

I'm gonna start a new guild. "WomenBangers". And you just know we're gonna talk about it a LOT.

Title should read: (1)

VickiM (920888) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893319)

Blizzard CEO Brings up Gay Guild Issue Again

BTW, I highly doubt the purpose of such a guild is to sit around and talk about how gay they are. I'm sure they focus more on instances and the like. I imagine it's nice to know before hand whether or not a guy's going to be treated like a freak if he comments that his boyfriend is making dinner so it's not a good time to join a raid. And a "mature" guild wouldn't really promise that.
This was never about cutting real life out of a game (after all, most of the characters are controlled by real people). It was about people making targets of themselves, and Blizzard having to deal with the constant harrassment that I'm sure has already started.

New Guild (1, Troll)

infinii (27811) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893343)

Applications are now being accepted for the Brokeback Guild.

What Blizzard can and cannot do (4, Insightful)

meadandale (605319) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893375)

Lambda writes:

Although Blizzard is well within its rights to insist that players avoid referring to other gamers in an "insulting manner," Blizzard cannot issue a blanket ban on any mention of sexual orientation or gender identity.


I find it funny that Lambda thinks that they can tell Blizzard what it's own terms of service may be. Last time I checked, Blizzard was providing a subscription service. You don't like the terms? Stop paying them and go somewhere else. That's your right and your choice. They can be as discriminatory as they want and while it may piss some people off, that's their perogative.

Straights-Only Guild? (1, Troll)

alexgieg (948359) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893437)

Does this mean I can create a guild for straights and sympathizer only and advertise it on public chat?

This whole subject is completely ridiculous, and Blizzard is making it even more ridiculous. What's next? A Blacks Only guild? Or should we be PC and say African-Americans Only guild, never minding this would exclude non-American blacks from joining it? Maybe that could be followed by a Whites Only guild too. Or would this one be too un-PC?

The whole problem, actually, is GLBTs using their "GLBTness" as a defining characteristic of their personalities. This is as much absurd as a straight proclaiming his straightness as being the important aspect of himself. Sex is just a like/dislike thing, one among many. It's not worth this central role people, specially GLBTs, see in it.

Read Blizzard's Policy (3, Insightful)

babydaddy (960332) | more than 8 years ago | (#14893443)

Too many people are responding to this article in hysterics because Blizzard has changed its policy to revoke a ban on gay chat and overt sexual references in guild names and to allow descriptions of homosexual acts in public chat channels.

That's not the case now, nor has it ever been. Blizzared never banned gay chat in public channels, only insulting references to sexuality. And descriptions of sexual acts always have been, and continue to be, forbidden. The policy has not changed.

So before you have a freak out, you might want to read the posted policy. It's here:

http://www.blizzard.com/support/wowgm/?id=agm01719 p [blizzard.com]

What does GLBT stand for (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14893474)

I am serious, I don't know what it stands for. Also what server was this big debate on.

My only other comment is that it saddens me to see this all happen, Games like WoW for me are a place to go to for get away from all the B@llsh*t of the real world.
Aside from some of the juvenile acting people you have to ignore its fun to not have to deal with all the social and PC issues for time.

Just goes to show everyone has to have a banner to wave, where's mine?
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