Banned From WoW For WINE & Programmable Keyboard 701
An anonymous reader writes "Player gets banned for playing World of Warcraft under WINE and using a Logitech Gaming keyboard. "I am an experienced network engineer for an ISP and I am often running World of Warcraft on Linux through the use of WINE..."" Although the e-mails exchanged are unclear
my guess is that the programmable keyboard was more the problem then WINE. Not that you'd ever know that given that Blizzard communicates with their users seemingly almost exclusively with form letters.
Anonymous? (Score:5, Interesting)
The keyboard he is using sounds quite cool though
I shall have to look into getting one.
Re:Anonymous? (Score:2)
Re:Anonymous? (Score:4, Interesting)
Unfortunetely, for the keyboard to be effective in WoW, Blizzard is going to have to support it and program some hooks into the game for it to be supported. Even if there was a 3rd party program (or even a UI mod) that would take care of the hooks for WoW it would be against the ToS, and my account would be banned for it.
As much as I like the game, I have found blizzard themselves to be fairly nazi about what can do what and who can do it. CmdrTaco had an instance with Blizzard Nazism not too long ago. [slashdot.org]
A Mr. Godwin on the line for you (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh please. Lets get some perspective. Blizzard told CmdrTaco to change a name he had been using for awhile because it violated the game rules. That's it. Blizzard has yet to start rounding up and gassing Slashdot editors.
"I can't use my nickname! It's like Auschqitz in here!"
Re:A Mr. Godwin on the line for you (Score:5, Funny)
too bad.
Re:A Mr. Godwin on the line for you (Score:3, Informative)
Except it didn't.
From Taco's post...
Re:Anonymous? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Anonymous? (Score:5, Informative)
And just a minor remark here to people who claim I was botting. Please, go look up some botting software.
1) They virtually all need MS
2) Botting software runs around, taps mobs, kills them, loots them and repeats this process. I didnt. I did not loot, move, nor change target. Anyone with a WoW account can run to Thousand Needles, find a Windchaser creature, get a lowest level weapon and hit it indefinately, provided that you are a healing class.
Anyway, I mentioned this, but I can understand why people who quickly read would miss it.
Re:Anonymous? (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the most obvious problems with WoW these days is that there is this massive wall of low level employees (GMs, Billing & accounts etc) who don't have either the authority or time to really look after customers properly. Add to this Blizzards obvious contempt for it's playerbase as easymeat who are pretty much addicts so can be treated like trash and you have a situation where people will frequently get reamed like this with no way to prevent it.
You will of course get accused of botting by lots of players, but lots of players also happen to be 14 year old children who love to point fingers (not to say every 14 year old is like this, but the culture of WoW has shown to me that while there are exceptions if a player sounds like a 14 year, acts like a 14 year old and talks AOL trash talk then he's caek).
In the end Blizz and it's employees can pretty much act as they want and this is the most problematic part of it for me. There is no accountability, GMs have been to behave extremely innapropriately in the past, it's impossible to defend yourself from accusations of cheating because Blizz wants to be seen to having a strong anti-cheater policy so if false positives come up then it doesn't really matter. Amoung the thousands of cheaters those innocent will go unheard.
I suggest that you give up on WoW, and find a MMO that treats it's customers with at least a little common decency. Hmph that might be tricky though.
Re:Anonymous? (Score:4, Insightful)
Botting is not defined by "botting software." Its defined by Blizzard. In Eve-online, they don't have a 'bot' ban. They ban you if you are using macros. Maybe Blizzard should upgrade their terminology to make it clearer. If you were a younger person I might accept that you had no idea you would get banned. If you never gamed before I might expect you may think a legalistic position would work. But as a network engineer, and someone that has probably gamed before you should know better. You know there is neither judge nor jury. You know legitimate users get banned all the time. Knowing that you should have known the keyboard would be an issue.
I hope they let you back in. You seem like an honest person based on how much info you told them. My mom also taught me to tell the truth. The world really doesen't care...
Re:Anonymous? (Score:5, Informative)
If you RTFA, he provides a (now defunct) link to a post in the EU forums, with a quote, in which blizzard had stated that using keyboard macro functions is okay.
How is Using Macro's Not Allowed? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:How is Using Macro's Not Allowed? (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't see this as any more novel than someone getting banned for inserting a graphics driver wallhack. He's violating the spirit of the game (no automated character improvements; you must invest your own time) while trying to weasel around the letter of the rules. Blizzard is vague precisely so that they can ban smartasses like this guy!
(All that said, I think Blizzard would be better served inventing some other "punishment" for this. Like, if your character spends 20 minutes attacking a critter it shouldn't be able to kill and it looks like you are a bot, some big SLOW nasty spawns and kills you. If you weren't a bot, you could outrun the nasty... but dumbass bot users die. And maybe take an experience penalty too.)
Re:How is Using Macro's Not Allowed? (Score:3, Insightful)
As I gather, he was just using the game's built-in, normal auto-attack feature. While in combat characters will do their plain vanilla attacks at a regular rate for as long as the combat lasts. He was just doing that to an enemy that could heal, and thus would never die to that sort of attack. He didn't alter
Re:How is Using Macro's Not Allowed? (Score:3, Informative)
Keyboards (Score:4, Insightful)
Blizzard is infamous for refusing to give details about exactly WHAT you did wrong when they ban you. As you can see in the emails. "We looked, you're guilty." "of what?" "Being banned." "For?" "Being guilty". "Of?" "Being Banned." "Well, can you review it?" "Ok. You're still guilty." "Of what??" "Of Being Banned." "For..."
They're unfortunately just asking for a lawsuit in this matter, but... I guess 6 million customers paying $15 a month makes one feel they can get away with anything.
I suggest you call their headquarters directly. They will tell you to email them instead. Refuse. Be a huge pain in the ass, and don't accept being told to go away. They *are* accountable for disabling your account. Fortunately you are in Europe where their EULA holds MUCH less weight than in the US -- they can't write away your consumer rights, so fight for them!
You were still botting (Score:5, Interesting)
Look, if your not paying attention to the game go do something else. If it is that boring to do what you were doing then why bother? If it is for improvment within the game should you not focus your attention on it.
Unattended play, botting, macroing. Call it whatever you will.
If you want a game which will allow you to bot, supposedly only attended, then go play Asheron's Call. Turbine themselves approved of combat automation to the horror of the entire industry.
Re:You were still botting (Score:3, Insightful)
I clearly don't think the fellow deserved a ban here. However, I know exactly why he did. Undoubtedly someone ran across him and filed a petition. Then a good GM sent the guy a tell while he was watching his movie leaving his character "unattended" and just pressed buttons. That is really all it takes. If a GM sends you a message in game and you are not responding yet are still taking action in the game you will get the boot. I have reported botters before farming rep in AV. And to be honest if I was
hmm... how about mono for .NET (Score:3, Interesting)
Where the heck is their support from, anyhow? It looks like 2 Indians and a Russian responded to your e-mails, at least giving a casual glance at the names. It's entirely possible that you're getting outsourced support and they may not be able to do anything directly for you.
Credit Card == Bludgeon. (Score:3, Insightful)
Then, if you really honestly think you have a case, use your credit card's chargeback ability as a bludgeon. If you really think you have a case that you can make, then they'll start talking back if you can convince the credit card company to take your side.
(Keep in mind that by selling you the software, they *offered* to provide you with continuing service at a certain price. Because RPGs are a character building exercise for some people, that "futur
Re:Credit Card == Bludgeon. (Score:3, Insightful)
1) Be very careful about issuing a CC chargeback on questionable grounds as it opens the possibility of your committing fraud if your interpretation of what you've been wrongly charged for doesn't turn out to be legally correct. Personally (IANAL), I think you'd be justified if they charged you for the period during which you were banned, but I think it'd be a real stretch to say that you have any legitimate claim for payments for service you already fully received.
2) If you decide
Favor (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Favor (Score:3, Funny)
So i should pay x per month to sit there pressing the same keys over and over while watching a film?
I can do that for free, and if I unplug my keyboard i can do it roaming!
Getting banned from recreational sites (Score:4, Interesting)
So I sit out a couple days trying to get the techs behind banned@slashdot.org to notice my emails. Finally, after a long negotiation with these guys and promising that I will turn off all my Firefox extensions when accessing the site, I get let back on.
And this is what I come back to. A story about someone getting banned.
Re:Getting banned from recreational sites (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Getting banned from recreational sites (Score:2, Funny)
Come on, get with your own program or we'll get you banned you for handle fraud. I mean really, what the hell to do you thing we put up with you for anyway?
KFG
Re:Getting banned from recreational sites (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Getting banned from recreational sites (Score:3, Funny)
Not exactly hara kiri, but I'm sure it'll leave some nasty red spots for several seconds.
KFG
Fasterfox? (Score:4, Informative)
I'm hoping this isn't a trend, because Fasterfox really does make a HUGE pageloading difference.
Perhaps if I run a squid proxy on my network it would help too? There's only 3 machines here, my desktop, may laptop, and my wife's desktop.
Re:Fasterfox? (Score:3, Interesting)
He's better off. (Score:5, Insightful)
if this is Blizzards new attitiude towards it's customers, maybe I can get all of my friends to stop playing WoW and spend some time in the real world interacting with people in person.
Mod me a troll if you want it won't change the fact that I am siclk of Fantasy MMOs.
Re:He's better off. (Score:2)
Whatever. But this way isn't very likely to work. It reminds me of some of the russian detox centers where they just pick you off the street, lock you to a bed and let you go cold turkey, even though you're not really ready or motivated for it at all.
On one hand this is a good example of what can happen when you "invest" in a digital world - but there's really no such thing as an offline MMORPG is there
Re:He's better off. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes there is. It's called business.
Re:He's better off. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:He's better off. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:He's better off. (Score:3, Funny)
Why not both? Then follow it up with a sweep through the executive offices to burn out the heretics?
The streets shall flow with the blood of the non-believers.
And I think all FPSs are a Wate of Time (Score:5, Insightful)
To each his own, I don't care if you don't like MMORPGs, but you don't have to try to belittle those who do.
Not a Suprise (Score:5, Insightful)
In any situation which one party has vastly superior authority and little chance of penalized. Don't expect them to act in a reasonable manner.
Re:Not a Suprise (Score:4, Interesting)
I guess it depends upon your definition of reasonable.
In this case they actively pissed off a customer, terminating the account of a paying subscriber, because they felt that his actions were detrimental to the rest of the community. His actions had nothing to do with Linux, but rather were the result of what appeared to be automated activity (which could have been that a user saw him there stat padding for hours, complained, and then an admin trying conversing with him to find the character just mechanically repeating the same steps). Reading his account, it sounds like he configured a variety of complex activities as macros on his keyboard, and just sat there repeating them ad nauseam for hours while he did other things (fun!), doing this largely automated activity for his own gain. Given that MMMORPGs are somewhat of a zero sum affair, this means that it's at the cost of other players.
I'm actually amazed that the company acted so responsibly. It would have been easy to just backtrack and forgive and forget, but they forged ahead, making an enemy and losing a customer, to try to maintain the "rules of the land". Good for them.
I should also say that the individual in question might want to learn why "the right to silence" can be an important trait. He completely indicted himself in his emails ("so I was sitting her occasionally triggering macros while I watched TV...").
Re:Not a Suprise (Score:5, Insightful)
You have a funny definition of "responsible". If you read TFA, he went through great lengths to attempt to resolve the issue with Blizzard, keeping his emails polite at all times. He pointed out that both Logitech and Blizzard had advertised the keyboard as being good for WoW, and even offered to accept a temporary ban to make up for any accidental infractions.
Blizzard ignored all his correspondance, and went for a permanent ban, apparently in direct violation of their own terms of service. [blizzard.com]
Blizzard was WRONG, and paid no attention to a reasonable customer. I find it perfectly acceptable if he was currently considering either legal or grass roots responses to their gross negligence in the matter. If that is the best they can do for loyal customers who attempted civil resolutions, then they deserve to end up in a media circus of bad press and class action suits.
Re:Not a Suprise (Score:4, Insightful)
I wonder what it's like to make so much money you can give a dedicated customer a high handed heave-ho.
Re:Not a Suprise (Score:4, Insightful)
You should ask Sony Online Entertainment, they're currently living with the results.
Re:Not a Suprise (Score:5, Interesting)
1. The service claims in forum posts that what he's doing is okay.
2. The user offers to correct the problem, and even accept a punishment.
3. The service has a policy that is supposed to require multiple violations to obtain a ban.
4. The user has no prior history of TOS violations.
5. The user has spent considerable money on the product.
If you think that all that combines to make a "responsible decision" on the part of Blizzard, then allow me to be the first to point out that you're a heartless tyrant, and I really do hope this happens to you. Perhaps you'll see things different from the other side.
I for one, hopes he gets a good lawyer. Given that this is far from the first time I've heard these complaints, a class action suit against Blizzard may just be what's needed to shake things up.
Re:Not a Suprise (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not a Suprise (Score:5, Insightful)
(Emphasis mine.)
There's the part you seem to be missing. He has paid money to be provided with a service. As of right now, he's been singled out for violations to the agreement that he didn't commit, and has been unfairly kicked out of the service he paid for. (Presumably without a refund.) Because of this, he has suffered the loss of virtual property (his characters/accounts) that he has a paid significant amount of time and money to obtain. This just isn't okay, neither in a moral sense, nor in a legal sense.
You have got to be kidding. "This company refuses to take my money anymore! I'm suing.!" I marvel at the mindset that spurred you to even imagine writing that paragraph.
I'm dead serious. The legal system is there as a recourse for resolving disputes between parties. He has pursued every avenue available to him in resolving this issue. He has been ignored and treated poorly by the other party at every step of the way. As a result, he has an honest grevience to bring against Blizzard.
While I'm not one to suggest that he sue for $10,000,000 for "emotional damages" (that's just not right), suing for restoration of his account(s), legal fees to be paid by Blizzard, and a full refund of the amount he has paid to date (to cover the harrassment he has received) is a perfectly acceptable solution. Of course, it's a lot easier to get a lawyer to handle a class action suit for him, so in that case Blizzard would be facing the equivalent of hundreds of these suits at once.
Even if he didn't take the class-action path, a judge may note several reasonable complaints occurring around the same period and decide to combine them into a single suit himself.
Firstly, we're of course hearing one side of the story.
That's about the only insightful thing you've said. Unfortunately, Blizzard refuses to talk about the issue. If they won't even talk to the customer they have a disagreement with, then that customer may have to force them to tell their side in court. Alternatively, he could start a grass-roots mailing campaign or boycott against Blizzard. These are the options he has available.
Secondly, how about some perspective: This is a game.
My perspective is just fine. A game or not, Blizzard is offering a service in exchange for money. If Blizzard then decides to turn around and unjustly harrass its customers in violation of the contract entered into, it can expect that its customers will seek to reverse the business transaction and/or force Blizzard to uphold its contractual obligations. Not only does this resolve the matter, but it sends a message to the business that the customers do not appreciate being stepped on. Otherwise, what is to prevent the company from further abusing its other customers?
Zero Sum? (Score:3, Funny)
It's the keyboard, stupid. (Score:5, Informative)
Source:w ow-interface-customization&t=330798&tmp=1#post3307 98 [worldofwarcraft.com]
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=
Re:It's the keyboard, stupid. (Score:2)
This probably didn't help either. I'd think he was a bot.
I wonder how they determine if the player is using a programmable keyboard? As popular as WoW is, I can imagine that some prog. keyboard manufacturers will find a way to avoid detection. Maybe a random pause between key presses?
Re:It's the keyboard, stupid. - And he was BOTTING (Score:5, Informative)
When you a grinding, if a GM suspects botting they will whisper you looking for you to respond. If you don't respond within a reasonable amount of time you get nailed for botting.
Yawn..
Re:It's the keyboard, stupid. - And he was BOTTING (Score:3, Funny)
IOW -- "Human fails Turing Test. Film at Eleven."
Re:It's the keyboard, stupid. - And he was BOTTING (Score:3, Interesting)
When you a grinding, if a GM suspects botting they will whisper you looking for you to respond. If you don't respond within a reasonable amount of time you get nailed for botting.
Same thing that admins would do back in the BBS days. A friend of mine and I used to write scripts for Telix to grind for us in a couple of MUDs. We ended up having to make the script give some kind of generic reply anytime someone talked to us and then start beeping to notify us that we were being watched. Worked really well.
Re:It's the keyboard, stupid. - And he was BOTTING (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It's the keyboard, stupid. - And he was BOTTING (Score:5, Insightful)
As I understand it, he didn't actually leave it unattended. On the contrary, he couldn't leave it unattended, he still had to be sitting there pressing the programmed keys. He just wasn't paying attention while he was doing that. You can argue not paying attention is equivalent to leaving it unattended, but a simple macro on a programmable keyboard that you can't leave unattended does not make a bot, let along a fucking one.
Anyway, the real culprit here is the game design. If Blizzard want their players to worship at the altar of the great Time Sink, then they can expect them to use things like this to make it less mind-numbingly tedious.
Re:It's the keyboard, stupid. - And he was BOTTING (Score:3, Insightful)
Not only was it not a clearcut case of it, it wasn't even botting at all. Botting requires a bot. No bot was involved. Q.E.D. You do know what a bot is don't you?
And again, it's not as simple as "don't like their rules, don't play". In order to know whether you like the rules, you have to read them and understand them as intended by those who will be enforcing them. That's not simple, particularly when the rules a
Re:It's the keyboard, stupid. - And he was BOTTING (Score:3, Interesting)
So why is this a fucking problem? Computers are made for automation of repetitive tasks. If a bot can play the game, you've done something terribly wrong in game-design.
Well, one idea... (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe make a game that actually requires brain activity to succeed? We're not talking about a chess playing super computer here, or some cutting edge artificial intelligence. This game is exploitable by simple keyboard macros, which shows that it is far too simplistic. It rewards repetitive behaviour, and as a result, suffers from this sort of exploitation.
Re:It's the keyboard, stupid. - And he was BOTTING (Score:5, Interesting)
The game has has a built-in macro system that does not permit you to do multiple battle actions at once (you can swap multiple items, and perform multiples of other non-combat actions) because casting multiple spells/performing multiple combat skills all with the press of a single button is botting. This guy bypassed the in-game restricions with a hardware/software combination. The rules exists for a reason, and he broke them.
Funny thing is that if he had just been paying attention to the window he would have been fine.
And your comment about English is just flamebait (not that the rest is not).
Re:It's the keyboard, stupid. (Score:3, Informative)
This is the link, however it's giving me a "service unavailable" message. I'm not sure if that's because I'm not authorized, or because I'm in the US and trying to get to the European forums, or what. If anyone can access it and quote their answer, I'd be very interested.
Re:It's the keyboard, stupid. (Score:3, Informative)
But that is not the point (Score:5, Insightful)
2. But you are right, it was the Keyboard that brought this on. He was wathing movies and just casually pressing his macro key every now and then. Since he wasn't paying attention and doing the same thing over and over again, it looked like he was botting. Blizzard may have been right to ban him. Though I tend to think that since they have no clear programmable keyboard policy, they should have warned him.
3. Nonetheless, after reading his website, I have sympathy for the guy. Blizzard's communication with him really sucked. Getting sent those form letters must have been so frustrating. He asked specific questions to his accuser and they were replied to by generic form letters. He went into great detail explaining what his (somewhat unique) situation was. Even if Blizzard had replied and said "We have no problem with your running Wine, but using those programmable keyboards are against our ToS." Then that would be fine. But Blizzard was vague in their responses, which is unfair, and if they were a government (which they sort of are in this online world) for a developed, democratic, nation, this guy would have the right to at least SEE the evidence against him. It sounds like here somebody reported him as not responding to messages. They should tell him WHEN and WHERE it happened. Explain what showed up in their logs for them to conclude that he was botting.
The true problem here isn't lack of Wine support or Programmable Keyboards. The problem is that Blizzard makes decisions behind a closed curtain and doesn't tell you what evidence they used to support their decision.
CmdrTaco and his Hypocrisy (Score:2, Insightful)
Gotta love the hypocrisy from Taco complaining about unresponsive, noncommunicative companies.
Anybody else unfortunate enough to email the editors about an issue? Whether it is abusive moderation, story dupe/inaccurate/inflammatory, or posting bans, almost all the editors respond with one-line dismissals or direction to read their outdated FAQ which hasn't been updated in years.
Not that I am suggesting *anything* (Score:2)
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.aspx?foru
Uhm, no. (Score:5, Insightful)
However, it is telling that he knows that bot programs won't work on Wine under Linux; I'm not buying the story that he tested them all subsequently.
Summation: Cheated. Got caught. Got banned. Whined and told his buddies an "edited" version of the story, so they all rallied behind him. Tough noogies.
Re:Uhm, no. (Score:5, Insightful)
Its been a while since I've played WoW. Can Trolls be Priests?
Re:Uhm, no. (Score:3, Insightful)
Hell, I used to watch Bullshit! while running all those goddamn Barrens missions
Rights and software? (Score:3, Insightful)
The fact that Blizzard needs to know if you're sitting at your computer or not is a bit disturbing, however. Like a parent.
Re:Rights and software? (Score:2)
all that time leveling lost because of a keyboard? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:all that time leveling lost because of a keyboa (Score:2)
You enter a contract where you're paying ONLY for access to their world (with the related assurance that they'll protect you against TOS violators generally). The fact that your access allows you to alter some of their data - your avatar - does nothing to change the fact that your contract is explicitly not about 'owning' anything.
Want something different? Hit up SecondLife, where you own everything legitimately. The market provides us with what
Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
Definitely the keyboard (Score:5, Informative)
Apparently the macros on the keyboard were making him do repeated actions, and somehow this was interpreted by Blizzard as "unattended" operation. (Why they think it was unattended I don't know, TFA doesn't say exactly
Anyway, a quote from TFA:
"So it seems that if I use a programmable keyboard I am botting. However I suspect their 3rd party detection software saw a very strange enviroinment in which WoW was running; that combined with the repetitive task of healing myself, switching weapons, and casting Hex of Weakness programmed in my keyboard, I am viewed as a bot."
So it seems other people using WoW under WINE are safe, you'd just better not get too trigger-happy with the keyboard macros.
What's really the problem here is that there seems to be a huge disconnect between official Blizzard policy (programmable keyboards are okay, this has been explicitly said by one of their reps in the forums, according to the article) and what the GMs did. And after the guy got banned, they seem to just be just stonewalling him and hoping he'll go away, giving him a lot of "the matter is closed" crap. I have to salute his perserverence, though, in spite of this.
Rather a disappointing showing from Blizzard.
Re:Definitely the keyboard (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, TFA says the guy had been watching movies during this because his character was owning the enemies anyway. That counts as unattended gaming and is strictly prohibited in WoW due to unfair advantages it grants the botter.
Now, how Blizzard pictured this may be up for debate, but Blizzard has in the past been monitored suspicious accounts if the strange behavior goes on over long periods of time and aren't just flukes. That's probably how they can say this, and if pressured could maybe even say for how long he did it.
not so odd (Score:3, Informative)
Put yourself in the GM's position. A character repeatedly performs the same action hundreds of times. When sent messages (tells/whispers) the character does not respond. There is no other reasonable explanation than that the character is automated. Sure, weird situations like this particular one can occur, but is there really any way for Blizzar
If it walks like a duck... (Score:4, Informative)
On this point (botting) the EULA has been clear since the release of the game. If one knows something he is doing could be percieved as botting (at the discretion of the owner of the content) then why tempt fate by using it and then admit to using it?
They made a judegement call with their corporate reputation as the foundation upon which they stood to defend this principle. That didn't leave them any backing-down room. When you admitted to the programmable keyboard that gave them what they needed to completely defend their position.
Step 1: ditch programmable keyboard.
Step 2: obtain new credit card.
Step 3: Hellooooo Level 1.
good luck - EULAs can be tough.
geez that guy's a trooper (Score:5, Funny)
experienced network engineer fired for playing WoW (Score:2)
anyone spot his first mistake? (Score:2, Funny)
Regards,
English Game Master Team
Blizzard Europe
-----
and he wonders why he git shitty responses. maybe he should have tried a different email route first I replied them with the following e-mail:
He Had It Coming (Score:4, Insightful)
let me get this straight (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:let me get this straight (Score:3, Interesting)
This is why the Decursive mod isn't fully automated anymore, and why the macro-delay function was made inaccessible by the UI. Anything that will allow you to perform N functions in less than N keystrokes/clicks hits Blizzard's defini
It was most likely Wine (Score:4, Insightful)
Result: You must've been hacking your way to 60.
Dunno, as much as I hate cheaters, but some companies go a tad bit far for my taste.
Why was it WINE or keyboard? (Score:5, Insightful)
If the author wants to know... (Score:4, Insightful)
"At the time of the ban I had configured my keyboard to switch weapons, cast hex of weakness and renew myself, all with the press of a button."
There exists a global cooldown of one second between most gameplay affecting actions in WoW, most certainly for casting these two spells hex of weakness and renew.
Therefore the only way you could have cast both with one button, is if the keyboard is interjecting a wait period, and issueing a keystroke to the game that you are not pressing after this wait period. Now in this case, that keystroke may only be a second after you pushed the button. But the issue is that you have, at this point, just barely crossed the line into botting. It has to be drawn somewhere, and to me this is where it makes the most sense: If you allow the keyboard to issue commands while you are not interacting with the hardware in anyway, you are botting.
Not saying this to be an ass, just to let you know what most likely Blizzard took issue with.
Ridiculous. (Score:3, Insightful)
CmdrTaco Vs. Blizzard (Score:3, Insightful)
Unfortunately, none of the major MMORPGS offer any form of reasonable communication to their users, and if you decide to disregard the ToS (by installing macros and playing the game unattended or using bad nicknames), you're likely to get stung sooner or later.
Which is why I don't play MMORPGS anymore, because they can undo all your hundreds of man hours without warning or compensation for reasons that are just or not and there'll be nothing you can do about it, until someone starts an MMORPG player's union.
Very Mature (Score:3, Funny)
At the bottom of the article:
Priceless.
Player TOS (Score:5, Insightful)
There should be a Player TOS that the company agrees to before selling their games. It would read like so:
17. In the event you, the player, are ever in need of technical assistance, customer support, account maintenance, or in the event you are banned from the game and your account closed, you have the right to expect that a human Blizzard employee will examine your situation and respond without the use of bots, form letters, or automated responses to make certain that your situation is fully resolved. Furthermore, while the resolution may not always be to your liking, the details will be explained in full using simple, standard language showing the logic we used to make our decisions. Once we have made every effort to explain our decisions, if you still feel that Blizzard has errored in some way, you will have one appeal effort to escalate your situation. This will mean that a team of three Blizzard employees will examine your case in full, reaching a decision. You will only be notified that either Blizzard's previous decision has been upheld, or that there is sufficient evidence to reverse the previous Blizzard decision.
Re:Player TOS (Score:3, Informative)
What's this botter's problem?? (Score:5, Insightful)
That is the key problem in what he did. If he used macros while watching TV, I can only guess at how long these repeated actions went on.
This isn't about Linux, not about WINE, not even about programmable Logitech keyboards! This is about: watching TV while letting your computer play the game. And... "playing" the game unattended is most certainly against most MMO agreements, and usually equalled with botting, much like Blizzard indeed told him.
I can only guess at why the Blizzard Boards once told him that it was OK to use keyboards with basic programmability, but a guess was that Blizzard didn't mean it was OK to fucking abuse them to play WoW while watching TV. Yeah, maybe that's why.
If it in his eyes "doesn't require much attention" or not is completely irrelevant, and an "excuse" stupid enough to just worsen his case. It's the very same excuse used by "true" botters. Blizzard has most likely monitored his account over some period of time and seen, "hey, this guy is doing identical actions all over". The follow up reply from Blizzard shows they were listening to his complaints and clarified the problem once again.
He then went on saying:
"I have also apoligised in advance if using a programmable keyboard violates the TOS - but your TOS does not say anything about using such keyboards."
No, but a TOS doesn't detail every individual piece of hardware or software disallowed either. That would be impossible. Instead, they try to explain what's allowed or not. Not that Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboards are disallowed when used to exploit game mechanics. Whether Logitech says they're OK or not is also irrelevant as they don't have a say in the WOW ToS anyway.
And I'm sure they are right too that using their keyboard is allowed, but do Logitech say "using our keyboards to 'play' WoW with during TV watching is in agreement with Blizzard ToS"?
So that's flaw number two in his argument, after trying to excuse himself with "but *I* thought it was OK to play the game in an unattended way, because
Come on, just because he's using WINE and this stupid keyboard doesn't excuse his actions.
"However I suspect their 3rd party detection software saw a very strange enviroinment in which WoW was running"
Nah, that's just him trying to find ways of blaming his behavior on Linux and WINE.
"that combined with the repetitive task of healing myself, switching weapons, and casting Hex of Weakness programmed in my keyboard"
Yes! That's why though! You know, stuff botters write Windows software to do Does it really matter that much how you do it? This guy need to understand what botting implies (= tools to enable game play automation) and that botting isn't allowed.
"Now to the advantage gained. What exactly did I gain? All I did is train my weapon skills. I did not gain any gold, did not gain any experience at level 60, no honor, not even any loot whatsoever."
This argument is beyond comprehension for me. He gained trained skills! That's what he gained. Gee.
WINE is not an unbottable environment (Score:3, Interesting)
The problem with Blizzard's stance on this issue is that they have created a game with some mindless repetitive tasks that beg to be automated. Realistically, they beg to be eliminated entirely since a computer program assigning you fake, easily automated, mundane repetitive tasks isn't good for anyone. Most of WoW is not this way, however. Most of it's parts are interesting and immersive and those are the parts people find fun. Nobody is going to bot their way through an 5+ person instance run (well, almost nobody.)
Blizzard has drawn a hard line on botting but the problem with any line is there are gray areas and the mundane easily automated tasks (like grinding up a weapon skill at L60) that are so wildly easy to automate as to be trivial. Sitting in one place pushing button 1.. 2.. 3.. 1.. 2.. 3.. 1.. 2.. 3.. gets old after about 1000 repetitions. It would even be easy to create a macro keyboard that would fully automate this activity beginning to end. It wouldn't in any realistic way be "botting" but Blizzard would probably ban you.
Blizzard needs to fix WoW. Pull the mundane easily automated crap out. I'm level 60 and never used a crossbow, don't make shoot 100,000 arrows at rats in the tram to level the damn skill.. it's mundane, repetitive, and I don't want to do it. Ramp that skill up much much faster to the point where it's maybe a little weak but I can use it in regular combat and you eliminate the mundane easily automated task issue. They should also allow you to assign one of your characters to a task and log out and have the game essentially fake the thing for a while (fishing, farming mobs, etc). That short circuits a lot of the desire for botting and allows them to control the negative aspects of it (the characters "botting" could appear differently or not at all in-game.)
As a society we should consider making it illegal to ban the automation of easily automated mundane tasks. Do we really want humans to be forced to sit at a keyboard hitting the same 3 keys in the same order for hours and hours? Blizzards stance on this simply shouldn't be allowed. If Blizzard notices a player standing in the same place doing the same thing for hours the thought on their side shouldn't be "Ban this guy!" it should be "How do we eliminate the desire for automating this task?"
What I get out of this story (Score:4, Insightful)
My take-away from this is that some people are simply addicted. If the game can be so boring, that, at times, a player watches movies while playing, what kind of entertainment is that? Sounds like classic addiction - small rewards at random times("wins" of enjoyment, I presume)keep you coming back despite the overall "loss" tedium, time-wasted, monthly fee.
Different Motive for the Ban? (Score:3, Insightful)
Getting Kicked Off Of WoW $15 (Score:4, Funny)
Complaining about it uselessly $0
Posting it to Slashdot so everyone can see how high your 14M3 factor is
Against the EULA (Score:5, Interesting)
I wonder if that will carry over to the next thread about the next change in Microsoft's license terms.
Has anyone ever established that an EULA is a valid contract in any state?
everybody's forgotten his dnd message (Score:3, Insightful)
So someone reports him as botting, gm checks it out, gm get's automated reply saying he's not at the computer while the character continues to attack a mob, he get's banned, end of story.
Regardless of what he was actually doing, he told a blizzard gm through his dnd message, that he was away from is machine, aka that he was botting.
Never mind the fact that whether or not he is violating a specific rule of the tos or not, he is clearly violating the spirit in which that rule was made.
Says a lot about WoW... (Score:3, Insightful)
It was a combination of factors. (Score:3, Insightful)
Personally I think it's also a fault with the way WoW works, if you can can gain skills by doing trivial tasks repeatidly, the system is broken.. You learn a damn sight more about anything by pushing at the limits of what you can do, the game should reflect that.
Gold farming's harder to overcome, but coding the game to encourage skill farming?!?!
Re:Could it be... (Score:2)
Re:good (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Typical SlashDot Mob Blames the Victim (Score:3, Insightful)
You don't play WoW. WoW players know that GMs message ppl to detect if they are botting. No response is conviction. Your character gets teleported to GM island and the account gets a ban. After the 3rd ban (increasing duration), yur permbanned. Plz stop talking.
Ask yourself, why he bothers to mention WINE, Linux, or fails to mention what happened before the letters. This