Scientists Find Doublehelix at Center of Milky Way 148
An anonymous reader writes "Astronomers report an unprecedented elongated double helix nebula near the center of our Milky Way galaxy, using observations from NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope. The part of the nebula the astronomers observed stretches 80 light years in length."
Light is fast, but not as fast as we think (Score:2, Informative)
While it may seem really fast, when broken down into comprehendable units, light is not really that fast. Sure, it's faster than anything else, but that just means that everything else is pretty slow too.
So this new nebula is 40 light years across. That's only 10 times the distance from the Earth to our second-cl
Re:Light is fast, but not as fast as we think (Score:2, Informative)
No, it's 80 light years across. I don't expect anybody here to RTFA, but at least you could read the summary!
Re:Light is fast, but not as fast as we think (Score:2)
Well, compared to the vast darkness that stretches between different galaxies, and galaxy clusters... well, yes, it's pretty close in the grand scheme of things.
- dshaw
Err.... (Score:5, Interesting)
So you've only given the appearance of an insightful comment... though I'm sure you'll hit +5 in no time.
Then again... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Err.... (Score:2)
Re:Err.... (Score:1)
I noticed his nick right after I submitted.
Apples and peas (Score:2)
It's the roadkill theory of relativity.
The most familiar example, for many of us, is the nearly identical appearance of prairie dogs and squirrels, post-impact, on country roads.
Re:Apples and peas (Score:2, Insightful)
The Moon is a bit farther away than that! (Score:2)
Re:The Moon is a bit farther away than that! (Score:2)
Re:The Moon is a bit farther away than that! (Score:3, Informative)
Not insightful... (Score:1)
Re:Light is fast, but not as fast as we think (Score:5, Interesting)
According to the story, the magnetic field has energy equivalent to 1,000 supernovae, although it's overall magnetic field is 1,000 times weaker than the sun. Therefore this magnetic field must cover an immense volume, if the sun was as powerful as a supernovae (which it's not, so think even larger than this figure...), then that would mean that this magnetic field is coming from a volume 1,000,000 times larger than the sun (something like that anyway, it sounds pretty good :P). Sure there's much, much bigger things in the universe, but, as already stated by others, you can't just say "oh, it's so big!" that's all relative. So, yeh, I could say that it's a really big thing and be shot down by someone telling me it's not so big, or I could give you a figure.
A magnetic field in the middle of the galaxy over 1,000,000 times the volume of the sun. That's big :P
Re:Light is fast, but not as fast as we think (Score:5, Interesting)
You can't think of something incomprehensibly fast in terms of something incomprehensibly large and say you understand it.
If anything, the fact that it takes a measurable amount of time to traverse the earth-moon distance by something so fast it seems instantaneous to us is just an indication of how far the moon really is away. (385000 km, about ten times further than the circumference of the earth.)
And the circumference of the earth is a bloody long way. 40000 km. If you were to try walking this distance, it would take you more than a year of continuous walking (no sleep)
As said, the moon is about ten times further away than that, 385000 km, about ten years of walking.
The sun is one astronomical unit away. (150 Million kilometers) 4280 years of walking. You'd have to have started walking about the time the first pyramid was built to get there by today.
The nearest star to the sun is just over 4 light years away (40 Million Million km) One thousand million years of walking. I'm running out of timescales to compare this to now, because human experience doesn't date anywhere near as far back. This timescale now compares roughly to the age of life on earth, and even the age of the earth itself is only about four times as large.
The nebula in the article is about ten times that size. Ten thousand million years of walking. If you wanted to walk that distance, you'd have to start at a time where neither earth nor sun existed, or would exist for billions of years. The solar system around that time would probably be little more than a localised gravitational aggregation of spinning gas.
You're right that one could keep going for quite a lot longer. Once one starts considering the distances in the universe, you can think of them only in numbers, they're so huge. The upshot of this is that in a universe where all mayor distances are unimaginably huge, this one is one of them.
But if you're interested in experiencing these speeds and distances, I'd suggest you give Celestia [shatters.net] a try. It's a 3d simulation that puts you smack bang into the middle of our solar system, and you can whiz around, visit nicely textured planets and even leave and visit other stars, other galaxies. Really beautiful graphics. You can actually move from the earth to the moon at walking speed, or at light speed.
An interesting coincidence (Score:5, Funny)
If that isn't a sign of an Intelligent Creator, I don't know what is.
*removes tongue from cheek*
Re:An interesting coincidence (Score:2)
I think not.
Re:An interesting coincidence (Score:2)
Are you sure, not even in the land of the midnight sun?
Conspiracy not coincidence! (Score:2)
Clearly this is proof of the conspiracy the ID crowd has been talking about.
Re:Light is fast, but not as fast as we think (Score:4, Funny)
Your estimate appears 50% short. You fail to take into account that in order to safely walk to the Sun, especially at closer distances, you'd have to walk only at night.
Re:Light is fast, but not as fast as we think (Score:2)
Does that mean that Superman [imdb.com] can fly faster than light? Is Superman faster than The Flash?
If you look REALLY closely (Score:5, Funny)
Re:If you look REALLY closely (Score:2)
That's fine with me, as long as they don't start chanting "Koyaaaanisqatsiii"...
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:If you look REALLY closely (Score:2)
Not Drawn to Scale (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Not Drawn to Scale (Score:1)
Re:Not Drawn to Scale (Score:2)
That's all a matter of perspective. If you're much smaller than quarks living in a super-submicrocosm, you might hold a different opinion on that matter.
(I am of course kidding... but then again...)
Re:Not Drawn to Scale (Score:2)
Latest News (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Latest News (Score:3, Informative)
Journal link (Score:5, Informative)
"A magnetic torsional wave near the Galactic Centre traced by a 'double helix' nebula"
The magnetic field in the central few hundred parsecs of the Milky Way has a dipolar geometry and is substantially stronger than elsewhere in the Galaxy, with estimates ranging up to a milligauss (refs 1-6). Characterization of the magnetic field at the Galactic Centre is important because it can affect the orbits of molecular clouds by exerting a drag on them, inhibit star formation, and could guide a wind of hot gas or cosmic rays away from the central region. Here we report observations of an infrared nebula having the morphology of an intertwined double helix about 100 parsecs from the Galaxy's dynamical centre, with its axis oriented perpendicular to the Galactic plane. The observed segment is about 25 parsecs in length, and contains about 1.25 full turns of each of the two continuous, helically wound strands. We interpret this feature as a torsional Alfvén wave propagating vertically away from the Galactic disk, driven by rotation of the magnetized circumnuclear gas disk. The direct connection between the circumnuclear disk and the double helix is ambiguous, but the images show a possible meandering channel that warrants further investigation.
Re:Journal link (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Journal link (Score:1)
getting another evidence claim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_cosmology [wikipedia.org]
Plasma cosmology is a cosmological model based on the electromagnetic properties of astrophysical plasmas. Advocates of plasma cosmology have offered explanations for the large scale structure and evolution of the universe, from galaxy formation to the cosmic microwave background, by invoking electromagnetic phenomena associated with laboratory plasmas. Plasma cosmology is considered by
Deep thoughts (Score:3, Interesting)
Could a single cell grasp, by which I mean sense, beyond its tiny neighbors to sense its place in the minute band of cells that make up even large tissues that in turn form the organ; themselves only part of the larger human creature. Still more, that human itself a seemingly insignificant speck in a sea of billions comprising the organism deemed 'Society.' That "insignificant" speck, like the cell that could be a white blood cell or a cancer cell, has the potential to help, harm or affect that gobal entity it is a part of.
What if the galaxy is not just a cell but an early cell; one undeveloped and still growing. Perhaps its culturing intelligent orders. Intelligents vast, streached thin between its stars; creating networks like those in a cell yet not governed by chemical interaction but in the perhaps equally predictable economics of cultural interaction. A growing cell; incubating intelligence that would mature the galatic cell in a way to interact with neighboring galactic cells, ultimatly tailoring (based on the surrounding galactic cells) the function of this galaxy.
A galaxy only a fraction of a fraction of a greater whole. A galaxy of intelect unaware beyond simple sensing of the galaxies beyond its neighbors, of its place; perhaps like a human cell. A universal organism ordered by a force greater and more mysterious than comprehensible; not unlike a comparison of the chemical interactions that govern a cell's behavior and the economical interactions that govern society. A Universal organism beyond conventions of the word. A Universal Organism that provokes its own environment and leads its own...
...deep thoughts.
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:3, Funny)
That may be, but I'm confident that some day we'll successfully explore the region north of the north pole...
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2)
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2)
I've always wondered what kind of inflated ego it would take to believe that a physical characteristic would not exist without the observer. Sure, it's possible that sound is a major scam regularly perpetrated by nature, but that's like debating possibility with a person who uses "assume that anything is possible" as a premise. If the only way to justify something is to assume the conclusion, it's probably a load of crap.
Consider an alternative scenario: a gun is
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2)
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2)
Bear in mind, the cross that appears when Neo sacrifices himself is not the Christian cross. It's the gnostic cross. An even-armed cross inside a circle. It means somthing different than the Christian cross.
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2)
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:3, Interesting)
If you define sound as "pressure waves through the air", then the tree makes a sound. If you define sound as "pressure waves striking the eardrum (or other organ of hearing) and producing sensations", then the tree does not make a sound.
(Interesting, my dictionary includes both meanings, so you can defend ei
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:4, Interesting)
So we can define scientifically our representation of the universe in detail but it's still a representation.
This is not another "Life is a dream" opinion. Comparing reality to something else is pointless because we cannot define reality.
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2, Informative)
Well, science defines reality as the set of observables. That's why the post I originally replied to is pure methaphysics.
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2)
Indeed.
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2)
Well, science defines reality as the set of observables.
You have just asserted one helluva big assumption, and one that is clearly false.
Look into the Copenhagen Interpretation that has been a major influence on basic physics and cosmology for about 75 years. Heres teh wpedia: Wikipedia on CI [wikipedia.org]. Or just adopt Paul Dirac's dictum for a successful career in physics: "Shut up and calculate!"
A loose phrasing of the core of CI is that human limitations in observations are such that the universe cannot be u
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2)
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2)
Mod parent up. He's done a good job of stating the position of a large number of the high energy physicist and cosmologist communities.
Real Deep thoughts (Score:5, Funny)
Jack Handey
Deep Thoughts
Haha, he makes me chuckle
Re: Real Deep thoughts (Score:5, Funny)
I see that you follow the philosophy of Obi Wank Enobi.
Re: Real Deep thoughts (Score:2)
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2)
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:1)
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2)
<inhales>
Oh I mean deeeeep dude, peace.
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2)
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2)
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2)
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2)
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2)
Problems only have clear solutions when you ignore the details.
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2)
I'm extrapolating from my software development experience. The user is often the least capable of defining the requirements because they hold many opinions and views based on what their current experience what they believe could be done. When it comes down to what they actually do and what problems they have (ie, it's all labor intensive and done on papers which get lost), t
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2)
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:5, Interesting)
In the late 1970s, marine biologists discovered the bacterial basis of food chains for deep-sea vent faunas and the unique dependence of this community upon energy from the earth's interior, rather than from a solar source. Two kinds of vents had been described: cracks and small fissures with warm water emerging at temperatures of 40 degrees to 70 degrees F and large conical sulfide mounds, up to 30 feet in height, and spouting superheated waters at temperatures that can exceed 600 degrees F.
Bacteria had long been identified in waters from small fissures of the first category, but it was only in the early 1980s that John Baross and his colleagues discovered a bacterial biota, including both oxidative and anaerobic species, in superheated waters emanating from the sulfide mounds (also known as "smokers").
They cultured bacteria from waters collected at 650 degrees F and then grew vigorous communities in a laboratory chamber with waters heated to 480 degrees F at a pressure of 265 atmospheres. Thus, bacteria can (and do) live in high temperatures (and pressures) of waters flowing beneath Earth's surface.
Yeah. We got nothing on these guys when it comes to survival of the fittest. We've even given Earth's bacteria a ride out of the solar system on our space probes, decades or centuries before we'll make the trip.
Re:Deep thoughts (Score:2)
Have lesser Fleas to bite 'em
So lesser Fleas bite little Fleas
And so on ad infinitum
Size is the greatest power of all... (Score:4, Interesting)
As the man in black explains to Roland in the first book of Stephen King's Dark Tower series, "The greatest mystery the universe offers is not life but size. Size encompasses life, and the Tower encompasses size... ... For the fish, the lake in which he lives is the universe. What does the fish think when he is jerked up by the mouth through the silver limits of existence and into a new universe..?"
What great poetry in the universe, that we should gaze out into the infinite deep of space, only to see the same elegent beauty [wikipedia.org] that we see when we probe the mysteries deep within ourselves.
Re:Size is the greatest power of all... (Score:3, Funny)
I guess that's why flying fish return to the water, they fear the unknown... Call it intelligent falling.
Re:Size is the greatest power of all... (Score:2)
I know that repeating themes are fantastic for bubblegum pop music and advertising, but poetry that says the same thing over and over should be left in the third grade classroom where it was written.
With this kind of microcosm/macrocosm symetry it makes me wonder: how boring would it be to reach enlightenment and realize that the universe is really homogenous throughout and it is only ignorance that lets us differentiate the parts.
Is it just me... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Is it just me... (Score:2)
No, it'snot Cthulhu. (Score:2)
simulate that! (Score:2)
Higher Res Picture? (Score:2)
Re:Higher Res Picture? (Score:5, Informative)
It's A Logo! (Score:3, Funny)
hmmm... would corporate involvement disqualify this as "intelligent design" I wonder...
Looks like someone beat them to it (Score:2)
What's the ratio of the cosmic DNA to regular DNA? (Score:2)
Re:What's the ratio of the cosmic DNA to regular D (Score:2)
Proof of intelligent design? +5 Funny (Score:1, Funny)
Double helix in the sky tonight... (Score:3, Interesting)
Throw out the hardware, let's do it right...
Steely Dan - Aja (1977)
Re:Double helix in the sky tonight... (Score:2)
Interesting star or image artifacts? (Score:1)
Re:Interesting star or image artifacts? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Interesting star or image artifacts? (Score:2)
Re:Interesting star or image artifacts? (Score:2)
Glad I wasn't the only one... (Score:2, Funny)
That's peculiar. (Score:2)
Double helix is a naturally occuring shape! (Score:2)
It's done procedurally! (Score:4, Funny)
So if we're just in someone else's cells, how long until we're all wiped out in 'The Big Sneeze'?
Powers of Ten (Score:3, Informative)
You're describing a famous film short "Powers of Ten" by Ray & Charles Eames. I'm too lame to make a clicky link, so here is the URL:
http://www.powersof10.com/
Fantastic film, one of the few (good) films that most schoolchildren saw in the 1970's, along with "Our Mister Sun". If there is a better method of presenting The Relative Size of Things in the Universe, I've yet to see it. Ray & Charles were way ahead of their time.
Re:It's done procedurally! (Score:2)
Re:It's done procedurally! (Score:2)
And as we zoom back... (Score:2)
Birkeland Current (Score:3, Insightful)
http://public.lanl.gov/alp/plasma/elec_currents.h
These were predicted by Alfven, and have since been detected indirectly by noting self-segregation by mass of interstellar medium ion Doppler shifts.
http://public.lanl.gov/alp/plasma/CIV.html [lanl.gov]
Similar structures have been noted in radio-telescope images, albeit not with such textbook-perfect structure.
http://public.lanl.gov/alp/plasma/plasma.universe
The reason typical astronomers are uncomfortable with this is that the very active field of plasma dynamics is almost entirely neglected in their education. Most are ill-equipped to evaluate or contribute to work involving real-world plasma interactions. They are handicapped not only by this neglect, but by having been taught, early on, an entirely unphysical, if mathematically elegant, substitute for plasma dynamics under which all these phenomena are supposed to be impossible.
Plasma dynamics, as a field of study, is fundamentally hard because the mathematics that describe actual, natural phenomena is entirely untractable. Practitioners depend on fiendishly difficult scaled-down high-voltage laboratory vacuum-chamber experiments, and absolutely enormous computer simulations. Astrophysicists, by a natural process, are strongly self-selected from among those with a distaste for laboratory work, and a preference for abstract, elegant mathematical constructs, so it's hardly surprising to find them disinclined to fill in the gaps in their education. Instead, certain sorts of evidence are just considered impolite to mention in their company.
(Incidentally, it is precisely this phenomenon which makes press releases about "geysers" on Enceladus -- and two-mile-wide "lava tubes" on Mars and the moon -- especially comical.)
Re:Birkeland Current (Score:3, Interesting)
And, er, observations of space plasmas. I know a couple of astrophysicists who are quite well-versed in plasma physics (one of whom grilled me nicely on my oral qualifier). And the planetary scientists who are dealing with Enceladus and Mars are generally cut more from the space physics cloth than the astrophysics cloth--they probably have somebody doing
Re:I was going to joke about DNA... (Score:2)
It isn't?
A horse with 2 back legs and fore-legs has 6 legs-an odd number of legs. The only number odd and even is infinity.
Please explain.
Re:I was going to joke about DNA... (Score:1)
Re:I was going to joke about DNA... (Score:1)
Re:I was going to joke about DNA... (Score:5, Funny)
Every Horse has an Infinite Number of Legs (proof by intimidation):
Horses have an even number of legs. Behind they have two legs, and in
front they have fore-legs. This makes six legs, which is certainly an
odd number of legs for a horse. But the only number that is both even
and odd is infinity. Therefore, horses have an infinite number of
legs. Now to show this for the general case, suppose that somewhere,
there is a horse that has a finite number of legs. But that is a horse
of another color, and by the [above] lemma ["All horses are the same
color"], that does not exist.