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Canadian Record Industry Disputes Own P2P Claims

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the talking-crazy dept.

174

CRIAWatch writes "The Canadian Recording Industry Association has quietly issued a new study that contradicts many of its own claims about the impact of P2P usage on the music industry. Michael Geist summarizes the 144 page study by noting that the research 'concludes that P2P downloading constitutes less than one-third of the music on downloaders' computers, that P2P users frequently try music on P2P services before they buy, that the largest P2P downloader demographic is also the largest music buying demographic, and that reduced purchasing has little to do with the availability of music on P2P services.'"

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174 comments

first post? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14946871)

first post?

even /. is trying to hide these claims (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14946875)

The requested URL (yro/06/03/18/0421250.shtml) was not found.

It's... well... what... (4, Funny)

Suddenly_Dead (656421) | more than 8 years ago | (#14946882)

This has got to be the first time the recording industry has said anything surprising, or possibly realistic regarding piracy.

I'm scared, someone hold me.

Re:It's... well... what... (0, Redundant)

BigBlockMopar (191202) | more than 8 years ago | (#14946908)


This has got to be the first time the recording industry has said anything surprising, or possibly realistic regarding piracy.

Actually, it's probably more along the lines of the limited quantities of lame Tragically Hip and Rita MacNeil songs in peoples' MP3 directories.

Re:It's... well... what... (1)

Firehed (942385) | more than 8 years ago | (#14946952)

What was stated isn't surprising. The fact that a RI said it is surprising. The Candaians... who'da thought it? Actually, they've been saying a lot of things recently that made $respect.canada++;

Re:It's... well... what... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14947132)

$respect.canada++;

Oh great, now you've gone and increased respect's Canada! Soon he's gonna be goin' around eatin' "Tim Bits" and talking aboot-- OK, WHO DID $AC.canada++?? NOT FUNNY GUYS.

How to change their tune... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14946981)

1. Never, ever pay for anything that you can download.

2. Make sure your friends and relatives know how to download stuff for free.

3. Make sure your friends and relatives know they cannot be caught or sued if they just download. Sharing or uploading is what all lawsuits have been based on.

4. Remember that if it is free, it is probably crap. But so is what you would pay for.

Welcome to Canada (1)

mfh (56) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947073)

I'm glad to see some honesty in this article, even if it's contradictory honesty.

The Emperor has a nice suit on -- his birthday suit.

Re:It's... well... what... (5, Insightful)

MadUndergrad (950779) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947230)

I wonder how the RIAA will respond to this study.

More likely instead of addressing the study they'll try to sue the RI of Canada, somehow making a nebulous claim about the RIoC cutting into their profits.

Re:It's... well... what... (5, Funny)

Minwee (522556) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947606)

It's all so obvious. Low sales in the US are caused by generic Canadian versions of songs coming across the border. The US needs tighter regulatory controls on music to prevent this kind of thing.

Re:It's... well... what... (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947994)

They will just send it to their spin masters and twist it around somehow.

Will it be false? Sure, but the common man ( and legislature person ) will believe it.

Translations... (4, Insightful)

shmlco (594907) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947596)

concludes that P2P downloading constitutes less than one-third of the music on downloaders' computers

Because in most cases people have ripped their existing CD collections to disk. Better question to ask is what percentage of their current playlist is P2P? And I agree with some of the other comments here, in that if I thought that a third of the people out there were ripping me off, I'd freak too.

that the largest P2P downloader demographic is also the largest music buying demographic

In other words, the people with the most interest in music do both. Surprise, surprise.

reduced purchasing has little to do with the availability of music on P2P services

Agree here. Though while decent content is an issue, I also think that other entertainment options (games, dvds) have an impact, as well as reduced salaries, rising gas and oil prices, and other economic factors leading to less disposible income.

Re:Translations... (1)

I(rispee_I(reme (310391) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947703)

"P2P downloading constitutes less than one-third of the music on downloaders' computers"

"Because in most cases people have ripped their existing CD collections to disk."

And the rest of us download from newsgroups. :D

The Invisible Downloader. (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14946893)

Um. In keeping with the invisible nature of P2P (intentional or otherwise). How does anyone know that they have the facts?

Re:The Invisible Downloader. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14947111)

It's not as invisible as many people think, especially to those who think that tricks like alternate ports mask their activity.

Re:The Invisible Downloader. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14947129)

Who slipped them the Truth Serum?

Re:The Invisible Downloader. (1, Flamebait)

Takumi2501 (728347) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947537)

Yeah, because nobody would ever have any reason to lie to a recording industry about stealing from them.

The Fault (5, Insightful)

therage96 (912259) | more than 8 years ago | (#14946907)

About time someone pointed out the obvious. The most mindnumbing about the whole RIAA/MPAA debacle is how they keep blaming their diminishing sales on the consumers as if we are required to buy so many of their products per year. Last time I checked, when a business's sales are dwindling, its time to try something new, or perhaps even innovate. However, their brand of innovation, i.e. suing everyone, seems to be a bit counter-productive.

Of course, it doesn't help when they have the government in their pocket either.

The Fault-Guilty Fingers. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14946941)

"Last time I checked, when a business's sales are dwindling, its time to try something new, or perhaps even innovate."

Dot Com.

"However, their brand of innovation, i.e. suing everyone, seems to be a bit counter-productive."

Have they sued you? Then I guess they're not suing everyone then.

"Of course, it doesn't help when they have the government in their pocket either."

Guess all those special interests [opensecrets.org] must have the government in their pockets then.*

*Note well that the list isn't confined to corporations (the current "/." devil)

Re:The Fault (5, Informative)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 8 years ago | (#14946964)

The most mindnumbing about the whole RIAA/MPAA debacle is how they keep blaming their diminishing sales on the consumers

Yep, when people were actually asked why they weren't buying more music, the greatest factors were:

  • price (16%)
  • nothing of interest (14%)
  • lack of time (13%)
  • collection is big enough (9%)

In other words, all the music industry needs to do to make more sales is to sell an interesting product, at a price the market will bear.
Their customer-hate behaviour has been so destructive, musicians contracted to RIAA member companies should initiate class action lawsuits to recover income lost to these inane tactics.

Re:The Fault (5, Interesting)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947006)

Quite frankly I think the root of the problem is that the record companies have become so overwhelmingly corporate in nature, so dominated by dull, unimaginative accountants and MBEs that they've forgotten the precise nature of the business. I really can't believe that the early 1990s saw the last gasp of groundbreaking music, but the last decade has basically saw a cookie-cutter approach, with forgettable boy bands and female stars who require odd sounds and digital enhancements to make their "dance" records even work in any sense of the word.

Record companies are blaming a lot of people for their own failings. Right now the next Beatles or Led Zeppelin could be slogging away unnoticed, but record companies don't seem at all interested in encouraging and developing artists, and they're reaping what they sow, and all the anti-consumer DRMs and legislation won't give these incredibly musically inept corporate types what they need.

Besides, these are the same pack of crooks who spent the last fifty years screwing artists every which way, so I figure that a good deal of payback is in order.

Re:The Fault (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14947303)

Besides, these are the same pack of crooks who spent the last fifty years screwing artists every which way, so I figure that a good deal of payback is in order.

Amen, brother!

Re:The Fault (2, Interesting)

goonerw (99408) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947345)

who require odd sounds and digital enhancements to make their "dance" records even work

Ben Fold's said it best in "Rockin' The Suburbs":

I'll take the checks and face the facts, while some producer with computers fixes all my shitty tracks

Then again, we have a flood of "Some unknown vs. Well known artist of old (80's etc.)" with the well known artist's song and just repeating the first line of the chorus to some shitty backing dance crap. At least some poptarts try singing the whole song, albeit without the feeling, intent, or even in the same key, "danced up" and sounding absolutely horrible.

Re:The Fault (1)

Splab (574204) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947507)

Your sig reminded me of a very good local band:
http://pressplayontape.com/ [pressplayontape.com]

Re:The Fault (1)

Jesus_666 (702802) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947635)

Very true, PPOT are great.

Seriously, good music hasn't died out. Just listen to PRESS PLAY ON TAPE's free stuff. And then buy their CDs.
I'm currently listening to Polysics [wikipedia.org] (link to WP because their site ain't that great), who make quite nice music and quite strange videos. Another nice Asian band is YMCK [ymck.net], who make bleepy, cutesy bitpop. (Whoa, they've released their second album? Let's hope that their extrajapanese distributor [recordsofthedamned.com] gets it in stock soon.) And of course there's Machinae Supremacy [machinaesupremacy.com], the ultimate Swedish SID Metal band. Return to Snake Mountain, anyone?

There's a lood of great bands out there. You just have to find them.

Re:The Fault (1)

dc29A (636871) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947798)

Seriously, good music hasn't died out.

Definitely not. Some more awesome bands:

Therion [megatherion.com] Operatic symphonic metal band. They blend classical and metal music. They use opera singers for most of their songs.
Tiamat [churchoftiamat.com] Gothic rock with heavy Pink Floyd influences. Fantastic band.
Symphony X [symphonyx.com] Awesome progressive metal band.
Leaves' Eyes [leaveseyes.de] A bit more commercial, but still awesome. Great gothic metal band.

Scandinavia and Holland has many original bands: Andromeda, Epica, The Gathering, Elsie, Nightwish, Opeth, Ayreon and others.

In Flames (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14947415)

are a damn good band,even in the recent past. but it does sort of prove your point, as all the good music is in the extremes these days, and not in the pop pablum sphere.

Re:In Flames (1)

BungoMan85 (681447) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947683)

I'm not exactly a fan of In Flames (I think they're rather boring and cheesy as far as metal goes) but I agree with your larger point. I cannot name one popular song within the last decade that I thought was actually good. No one in mainstream society has heard of the bands I listen to. Good music is out there, but you won't find it on the radio and you'll be lucky to find it in a CD store. Every once in a while I'll find something good, but it's probably the least selling CD in the store.

Re:The Fault (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14947657)

You're a Genius (i'm of course referring to the original "The Fault" Thread Creator)

Damn right (1)

ZakuSage (874456) | more than 8 years ago | (#14946914)

2/3rds of the music on my computer is from ocremix... although I guess if you want to bitch I did download that via bittorrent.

Re:Damn right (2, Interesting)

ClamIAm (926466) | more than 8 years ago | (#14946937)

And with the draconian copyright laws we currently have, most (all?) of the music on OCRemix is considered infringing. I only mention this so we all remember that there's quite a few issues involved in the struggle for better copyright law.

Spin control? (5, Insightful)

anagama (611277) | more than 8 years ago | (#14946918)

I haven't read the 144 page research report, but I think it is worth noting that the person who summarized this report, states at the end of his summary that he has been claiming for a long time that p2p downloading doesn't affect sales that much. In other words, he has a perspective on the issue. Somehow, I find it hard to believe that the recording industry is going to look at the stat which shows that a 1/3 of music on computers is from (presumably copyright-violation style) downloading (this is for the most-frequently-purchasing demographic (teenie-boppers)), and say "oh yeah, p2p doesn't harm our bottom line. The recording industry has a different perspective ... they'll say they're losing 33% of their sales and have a freak fit.

Anyway, I wonder if people were asked this questions: "of music you have downloaded (as in copyright violation style), how much of that music is good enough to keep for a 1x/decade listen, but not worth buying?" Maybe I should RTF 144pg report ... naaa.

Re:Spin control? (1)

Nan0c (114572) | more than 8 years ago | (#14946945)

Agree, shoudl read it myself. Personally, anything that I've downloaded that I like I went out and bought. If I didn't I deleted it. This has opened me up to a lot more music than I originally listened to. I don't think I'm the only one doing this.

So let's see here... (0, Troll)

cdrguru (88047) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947004)

you, as a dedicated RIAA-hater and music lover illegally download music and take whatever risk is associated with that. Then, with no apparent benefit, you go and pay the RIAA and the rest of the industry that you would like to change.

Why? Guilt?

If you are going to download, why purchase? You aren't getting your point across. The only way folks are going to convince the content owners, artists, composers and so on and so forth that they must release their material for free is to STOP BUYING.

OK, if you are a dedicated law-abiding citizen that fears the reprisals if they download a song, fine - do without. But if you are downloading anyway WHAT ARE YOU DOING PAYING FOR IT? This destroys the entire concept of "it has to be free or we will just steal it" that everyone is pushing for.

Please, understand what you are fighting for. It is the elimination of the possibility of any financial reward for anything that can be expressed in digital media. While this view may not be shared by everyone, it certainly should be shared by all "downloaders".

Re:So let's see here... (4, Insightful)

bladesjester (774793) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947027)

Who says it has to be free?

Besides, some of us like having physical media, liner notes, etc. Personally, I like playing cds in my car and it's a lot easier to tell the "real" ones apart at a glance than it is with any of the mix cds that I burn.

As for rewarding the RIAA for behavior that I find distasteful, I don't reward them. How? I buy most of my cds used. The only actual new cds I have bought in the last 2-3 years have been from local and regional bands that I went to see live.

I look at music the same way I look at software - if the people who made it want it to be free, great. If they want to charge for it, that's fine too. If they charge what I consider to be a reasonable price and I have some use/desire for it, I'll buy it. If they charge too much for my tastes or I don't really want it that badly, then I won't but it.

It's amazing how that works.

Re:So let's see here... (1)

Belial6 (794905) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947143)

That attitude is actually a lot easier with music than with software. Many of use would make dramatically less money if we were to just refuse to use software that we find overpriced. The number of people that would be harmed financially by not buying music CDs is miniscule.

Re:So let's see here... (0, Troll)

evilviper (135110) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947318)

As for rewarding the RIAA for behavior that I find distasteful, I don't reward them. How? I buy most of my cds used.

Sorry, but no. You're still rewarding them, just much less-so than if you bought CDs new. Driving up the resale value allows them to sell CDs for more than they could when the CDs were new.

Besides, I bet you bought those CDs from a company that sells lots of new RIAA CDs as well, and you're helping them pay the rent, stay in business, etc.

Re:So let's see here... (1)

Elemenope (905108) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947599)

You sound so...reasonable. I'm intrigued by your ideas, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. ;)

Re:So let's see here... (1)

DrSkwid (118965) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947305)

So, you just walk into the food store and help yourself to what you want and wander out without paying ?

"it has to be free or we will just steal it"

I'd rather pay $15 for a cd if food was free

Re:So let's see here... (2)

Takumi2501 (728347) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947595)

<rant>That's the biggest load of crap I've ever read.

The vast majority of the music I own is legitimately purchased. I have no particular love for the RIAA, but I do feel that the artists who spent all the time and effort to create the music I'm listenting to have a right to be compensated.

Besides, the music business is like any other. If they charge an outrageous price for their product, nobody will buy it. Don't try to justify your theft (and yes, it is theft) by saying that I'm an idiot for paying for my music.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that downloaders are bad. After all, I've done my share of downloading myself. I'm just saying that this whole notion that music should be free simply because it can easily be pirated anyway is stupid.</rant>

Re:So let's see here... (2, Insightful)

Uerige (206572) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947723)

Please, understand what you are fighting for.

Please, understand that some people aren't fighting.

Re:Spin control? (2, Insightful)

BewireNomali (618969) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947086)

Right, I thought something similar - it's an emperor has no clothes deal.

in fact - if those numbers hold - the RIAA might be able to find some kind of correlation between pre and post p2p sales (hypothetical).

All of which is to say, it's absurd to think that P2P isn't affecting music sales. It's like the climate change thing. It's clear the climate is changing. It's clear that our greenhouse gassing is additional input. The question is - does more fuel burning = climate change.

Does the availability of ubiquitous and free music online mean reduced sales of music? It's clear that P2P is having an effect on music sales. In fact, it might be clear that P2P is having an effect on movie sales. This is the reality. The issue here is that both industries are so tied to their methods of delivery that they need to protect their current pipeline until they've shifted over.

In the long run, content is going to be free. Commercials and conventional advertising is going to die, and the only way to get adverts to the end user is going to be via content. Songs about Pepsi, Trojan brand condoms in love scenes. This sucks for Hollywood and RIAA because it means a paradigm shift away from their models.

My (limited) experience and connections (2, Interesting)

hummassa (157160) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947392)

Tell me that p2p and even street-sold pirate records do NOT affect at all record sales.

People (that I know) that download p2p music normally buy "official" records and support (going to shows etc) the musicians they like. They also throw out a lot of the downloaded stuff -- the things that are no good.

There are two kinds of people (that I know) that buy street-sold pirate records: the immense majority are relatively poor people that buy one CD for R$ 3 (US$ 1.50), because they can, and they wouldn't pay R$ 40 (US$ 20) -- which is the price of a hit CD on the stores -- they just would not buy the record at all. Some perspective here: our minimum wage is R$ 300/month (US$ 150) and the price of one record is over 10% this value.

Most medium-class folks I know abstain from buying street-sold pirate records; most of the ones that do, use them as the p2p downloaders: to have a large (as in they'll never hear it all), garbage, music collection, and to select to which musicians they'll support by buying the official records.

Mind you, one of our (reasonably good, 1980's hit) musicians decided to sign off a record company and go indie -- with good results for him. I'm not really a big Lobão fan, but he sells his new CDs on the newspaper stands (because the big record companies tell the music stores "if you buy his CDs I won't sell to you") for R$ 10 -- which is far cheaper than Sony/etc would charge for them.

Re:Spin control? (2, Insightful)

smoker2 (750216) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947525)

In the long run, content is going to be free. Commercials and conventional advertising is going to die, and the only way to get adverts to the end user is going to be via content. Songs about Pepsi, Trojan brand condoms in love scenes. This sucks for Hollywood and RIAA because it means a paradigm shift away from their models.
foreach $expletive (@profanity){ print "$expletive\n"; }

Since when has the primary purpose of "content" been advertisement delivery ?

Did Homer write his Odyssey to promote a fucking Cruise ship or Eric Arthur Blair pen 1984 to promote his new word processor ?

Or is it just Art for Art's sake (money for gods sake) as 10cc would have it ?

Let's see, you could have Spam, chips, egg and Spam, that's not got much Spam in it !

Re:Spin control? (1)

shmlco (594907) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947563)

"In the long run, content is going to be free."

In the long run, content is going to be paid. Why? Because the people who make music and movies and write books have to eat. Because all of them require significant upfront investments in time and energy and money. Because for most of them selling t-shirts at personal performances doesn't pay the rent.

A "Firefly" episode cost a million dollars a pop to make. Serenity $45 million. If you're not going to pay for it, and you don't want advertising, then who will pay for it? Or are you saying that you want "your" content to be free, and that everyone else should subsidize you?

Or that we should do without, and hope that enough people playing around with $500 video cameras and Final Cut will fill up all of that screen and air time with something worth watching? When they're not working at Walmart, that is.

Or that we should return to the days of patronage, where our best and brightest writers, singers, directors, and actors spend most of their days running around, hat in hand, begging for handouts from the rich?

You may be right, however, in that "eventually" content will be free... of course, by that time food, clothing, medicine, housing, and transportation will be free as well.

Those Canadians... (0, Offtopic)

Nice2Cats (557310) | more than 8 years ago | (#14946926)

...just can't get anything right, can they...sheesh.

Re:Those Canadians... (1)

neoform (551705) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947078)

For sure, man, i can't believe we haven't figured out what all you americans have figured out.. lawsuits solve all of life's problems!! (makes me glad most lawsuits get thrown out of court for being rediculous)

A short primer on the manifold uses of irony (0)

Nice2Cats (557310) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947115)

Sigh. One of the worst things about Slashdot is dealing with the subset of people who have no sense of humor and do not recognize irony. That would make two today already: You and the guy who modded me down. Let me explain the joke:

1. Americans tend to dump on Canadians
2. A Canadian institution has seen the light on an issue where its U.S. counterpart is clueless
3. Dumping on Canada for this is therefore the incorrect response.
4. This is called "irony".

Irony is used in many everyday situations to great effect. One of the most common ones around here is entering a building on a rainy day and saying "What beautiful weather we're having." Your response it the equivalent of replying "No, we're not. Look, it's raining!"

Of course, to understand this, you would have to know the context, that is, have read the original posting or even the article. Since this is Slashdot, I'll assume that this is the real root of the problem.

Re:A short primer on the manifold uses of irony (3, Insightful)

x2A (858210) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947299)

One of the worst things about Slashdot is dealing with the subset of people who have no sense of humor

It's not always the fault of the recipient for a 'joke' not being got, before you get carried away with the insults. Play nicely. (Condescending's not nice either, huh)

--
Digital media players (UK) [crispywater.com]

Well.... Duh (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14946928)

Everyone here knows it. I buy more music now, not less. And I'm a huge P2P user. I don't buy or even listen to anything from a major label. I don't care if my boycott has any political significance. It's a personal choice. I'm done supporting them. I'm indifferent to whether they survive or not. So I pretty much stopped in to reiterate the obvious. Since it's early in the thread and all... I also like buying used CDs, electronic trance etc from ebay and places like that. Stuff that didn't have huge production runs and are out of print and can't be purchased new. And my mp3 collection otherwise is stuff I wouldn't buy or couldn't find on CD...

No kidding. (2, Interesting)

AWhiteFlame (928642) | more than 8 years ago | (#14946936)

Most audiophiles are not going to have a giant music library of all pirated music and have 0 CDs or purchased media.

Personally, the only time I use gnutella or such is when I need a copy of a song without DRM for whatever reason. I already have the song on CD or from iTunes.

This study is pretty much redundant. This has been said again and again. But not that the RIAA [is going/wants] to listen.

Re:No kidding. (1)

x2A (858210) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947326)

This study is pretty much redundant

Only, as with any study, to those already in the know. The people at the top with the "power" who are doing the suing, passing laws, and spreading the fud, are blatently not in the know (one hopes; if they're not in the know, they're impressionable and manipulated, if they are in the know, they're just bitter and corrupt).

Otherwise it's just p2peers denying damaging sales, which the RIAAsses can respond "of cause they're say that, they don't wanna get in trouble", which can sound pretty convincing.

Proof (even statistical) of what you know is always better than just knowing it when there are people shouting that you're wrong.

--
Ever notice the less someone knows, the louder they know it?

LCD/TV/Monitors (UK) [crispywater.com]

Re:No kidding. (1)

MooUK (905450) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947759)

The fact that matters about this study is that it is one by the industry groups themselves. And that is near enough a first to matter.

The OBVIOUS (3, Interesting)

us7892 (655683) | more than 8 years ago | (#14946938)

It seems so obvious. It always has been obvious.

Except, I do remember a colleague of mine filling half the available diskspace on my company computers with Napster music downloads back in 2000. He was racing to beat the crackdown. He burned a lot of CD's from that frenzy of music downloads...

Well, my fiance and I just broke up, so... (5, Funny)

MufasaZX (790614) | more than 8 years ago | (#14946948)

...let me look out the window...OMFG, no shit, it's snowing in hell, well I'll be...um...damned. =P -c

Re:Well, my fiance and I just broke up, so... (1)

The Amazing Fish Boy (863897) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947149)

Well, my fiance and I just broke up, so......let me look out the window...OMFG, no shit, it's snowing in hell, well I'll be...um...damned. =P

What, you didn't notice that? Yeah it started back around the time you got engaged....

Re:Well, my fiance and I just broke up, so... (1)

Minwee (522556) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947614)

That's okay, it's only snowing in Canadian Hell.

I think that Dante had a name for that one. Something like "Buffalo".

Weird (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14946951)

I can't seem to find my sleep right now, so I go here to read. My train of thought goes like this: The music industry actually coming to its sense, my unrest is actually caused by something. Somehow, all I can think about is the usual slashdot cliches:

- Coincidence, I think not!
- Correlation is not causation
- In soviet russia, the music industry reflect on itself. (This one is so good I should reuse it later)

while I have this song about how "I love cliches" playing in my head and wondering to myself:

"if a 20 second exerpt of a song is fair use than what if I repeat the same thing for 3 minutes and it produce the full song; is it still fair use?" I am now reminding myself of Rigel in Farscape on a sugar high and trying to remember which episode number it was so I can watch it again soon. I'm totally making a Hunter S. Thomson of myself, whew! For the nostalgic, I make some mention of preserving my Karma by posting anonymously.

This last one will definitely make me loose slee~~!@~ NO CARRIER

No DUH! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14946960)

If this was Fark there would be a BIG farking OBVIOUS tag on the post! Which ony slightly beats out the ASININE tag that the idustry itself receives

Re:No DUH! (1)

NormalVisual (565491) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947152)

No, if it was Fark there'd be an "IRONIC" tag followed by 100+ comments of people slamming the submitter for not knowing what "ironic" means, along with some obligatory Alanis Morrisette references, one or two "HA-HA" Photoshops, someone bringing out the "I work for XXX, and I'm getting a laugh..." quote, and half a dozen "O RLY" owl variations.

Not suprising. (5, Insightful)

grungefade (748722) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947036)

I wonder when the recording industry is going to realize they are fighting a battle that cant be won.

I used to buy CDs constantly. And now with the implimentation of DRM on CDs and not knowing what type of software is installing when you insert a CD in your computer. I dont dare buy a new CD. I want to be able to buy a CD and encode it into any format i want to put it on whatever device i own. And until i really own the music i buy, im not going to spend my money on some music that might be locked inside their encryption. In 20 years my music i bought might be gone because I cant use it in new devices and technology, or with every new advancement in technology Im left converting my entire collection to some new and improved DRM format because of a firmware upgrade because a new bug is found.

Until I get to choose how I use the music I buy, instead of them telling me how, I wont purchase any.

Re:Not suprising. (1)

x2A (858210) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947339)

Until I get to choose how I use the music I buy, instead of them telling me how, I wont purchase any

I don't have autorun enabled so cd's installing software's not something i have to worry about... but I've never heard of any DRMed CD where the music's actually worth listening to (yes this is a matter of taste, but it seems to be a growing consensus). My message to the RIAA: Wanna make money through music? Let's hear some good music! Come on, WOW ME :-)

--
Digital camera's (UK) [crispywater.com]

Wars that can't be won (1)

Trinition (114758) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947588)

Some things you just can't stamp out with brute force. Instead, you have to find out what is fueling it and try to reduce that source and acknowledge you'll never be able to fully extinguish it.

  • War on Piracy
  • War on Poverty
  • War on Drugs
  • War on Terror
  • ...
Did I forget any?

Well, someday hopefully 100% (2, Interesting)

synonymous (707504) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947093)

In fact, I have only bought CD's in the last long many years simply because of P2P. Excruciating story short,,, I simply hadn't heard the likes of what I listen to now. Never knew it existed. Thanks to the non strategy of P2P, it seems to be to those that simply are seeking.

If... (3, Funny)

rampant mac (561036) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947114)

"Michael Geist summarizes the 144 page study"

If do a grep and cut out each "eh", it narrows down the document to 2 pages.

Grep. You keep using that tool. (2, Funny)

Captain Entendre (696145) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947195)

I do not think that it does what you think it does.

Re:Grep. You keep using that tool. (0, Offtopic)

jgoemat (565882) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947480)

'grep -v eh Report.txt' will give you just lines that don't have 'eh' in them...

Re:Grep. You keep using that tool. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14947499)

Indeed. He meant:
perl -le 'print grep {s/\beh\b//g||1} ' file

Arctic Monkeys shows what can be done (4, Interesting)

Nice2Cats (557310) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947117)

Interestingly enough, Wired [wired.com] currently has a longish story about a group called Arctic Monkeys that bypassed all the industry stuff and has been a big success because, not despite them giving songs away:
Their story is remarkable because of one fact: grassroots communication channels like MySpace and P2P file trading networks worked better than the major-label hype machine. The Arctic Monkeys became hugely popular because they wrote good songs, made them available to their fans for free, and encouraged them to share the MP3s with their friends.
Given my two latest, disasterous experiences with major-label hyped artists -- Enya and Kate Bush, whose new albums should both best be avoided -- I'm more than willing to look in other places.

Re:Arctic Monkeys shows what can be done (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14947245)

after Kate Bush's previous record I did not think there ever would be a reason to buy another record by her without listening to it first.

Very disappointing, I think she should just call it a day and retire or so.

Re:Arctic Monkeys shows what can be done (1)

x2A (858210) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947347)

Given my two latest, disasterous experiences with major-label hyped artists -- Enya and Kate Bush

*pmsl* they suckered you good! *wipes tear from eye*

Re:Arctic Monkeys shows what can be done (1)

Colonel Angus (752172) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947954)

Metallica encouraged fans to trade music when they were budding musicians trying to make a name for themselves.

Once they were millionaires, that whole attitude changed. Funny how the richer they got the shittier their music got.

trollko83 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14947160)

those obligations. problem stems However I don't series of debates 4 full-time GNAA very sick and its the fruitless has run faster

here's a new one (3, Insightful)

Xtravar (725372) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947221)

I buy CDs because I can afford them, and because I can tell the difference between an mp3 and a CD. Yes, my ears are spoiled by high quality ogg and who rips in that but me?

Anyway, the crap the music industry is making is targetted at people with no money.

Mommy and daddy's money only goes so far, and for a minimum wage worker a CD is a couple hours of work.

Now for a software developer such as myself... a CD is a fraction of an hour of work.

So, hey, why don't they make music that appeals to intelligent music conniseurs with money, rather than target the teenie bopper demographic? They should either put out good stuff that reaches people with money, or lower the price on the shitty stuff. Welcome to economics 101 - one price for all demographics doesn't maximize profits.

Re:here's a new one (1)

Zibara (910310) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947262)

The music industry isn't stupid. The demographics of who purchase their music are probably very well studied and known to them. If this is the case, why arn't they targetting the demographics of the rich with higher quality product if this would maximise their profits, as you say? There must be a good anwser to this question that they have come up with. Perhaps the "intelligent music conniseur" market is too small to viably target in this way. Either way, I'm merely wondering why this pricing and profit maximising isn't in place if it's a truely profitable system.

Re:here's a new one (1)

kwandar (733439) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947909)

"Yes, my ears are spoiled by high quality ogg and who rips in that but me?" Actually, AllofMP3.com rips in that for you! :)

Re:here's a new one (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14948018)

Feh! I keep my stuff in .aiff.

Re:here's a new one (1)

mqduck (232646) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948016)

Yes, my ears are spoiled by high quality ogg and who rips in that but me?

I know I'm just being immature, but you're a p0s3r audiophile. On decent headphones, certain songs (hard rock, for instance) just sound lousy in anything but lossless.

Try before I buy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14947343)

You'd think that with a broadband connection and a leniant ISP I'd be downloading like crazy. Well I don't, not anymore. I admit that each time I learned about a new program (i.e.: Napster, Kazaa, bittorrent) I'd download pretty heavily for a few months because of the novelty.

But I've noticed that most of that stuff just sits there unobserved or unlistened to, taking up space. Or, when I've actually made the effort to watch something it generally lasts about 5 minutes before I turn it off in disgust or from boredom.

If something is worth it, like say the LOTR trilogy, I'll go see it in the theatre, DL a copy to tide me over until the DVD release then purchase both the regular and extended cuts. That's an extreme case. Other things, like for some very strange reason The Chronicles of Riddick, i'll buy on DVD If I really liked the DL and plan to see the next in the series in the theatres.

But that's the problem, I really haven't found much I've liked enough to inspire that. Hollywood really should spend the time and money working on better storylines rather than just remakes, comic books and dumb sequels. In the last 9 months I've downloaded 1 movie: Serenity...and I now own that. Increasingly, it's becoming not worth my precious bandwidth to download anything.

Just ask the actual ARTISTS and you get the same.. (4, Informative)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947400)

This [pewinternet.org] may be some interesting reading about this matter.
"Across the board, among those who are both successful and struggling, the artists and musicians we surveyed are more likely to say that the internet has made it possible for them to make more money from their art than they are to say it has made it harder to protect their work from piracy or unlawful use. "

alleluia (1)

AlgorithMan (937244) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947402)

finally some officials got it!
I still have no doubt, that the RIAA will ignore these facts and continue suing the pants of 15 year olds...

Re:alleluia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14947841)

they're sueing pants?

and if thats corrected, it just sounds like the RIAA are a bunch of pedos

Wierdness (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14947498)

Things fall apart; the centre can not hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blooddimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
are full of passionate intensity.
W. B. Yeats, 1921

this report matches my experience... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14947506)

... when Napster was in its heydey, I bought more CDs in 6 months than I ever had (or have since) in a year or two outside of that time period.

Being able to browse through someone else's collection and find neat, non-top-40 treasures was just great.

Since then I'm down to one or 2 CDs a year, although iTunes helps a little- I only started doing that very recently.

Mostly True (2, Insightful)

MadMacSkillz (648319) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947662)

The biggest reason that people are not buying as much music is because the corporate offerings mostly suck. The second biggest reason is that there are other, more interesting things to spend your money on in this "day and age" besides music.

Record companies need to offer a better product. And they ought to consider just giving away a couple of songs per artists right off the bat via P2P. It's happening anyway. I'm an idie musician and I've seen jumps in sales every time I give music away. I can only WISH that thousands of people were trading a few of my songs via P2P because it would send some of them to check out my music, and generate some sales. The music industry should take advantage of P2P instead of trying to fight it. The indie movement is already doing this - most indie artists do give away a song or two. Well, the smart ones do, at least...

That's not a study... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14947733)

that's a confession

Several years ago a co-worker ripped.... (1)

3seas (184403) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947777)

....a CD of 80's music. To my supprise his tastes was very similiar to my own, as all the songs were ones I liked.

I considered asking him for a copy so that I might remember which groups (and I'm really bad about remembering names and titles, etc..) so that I might buy the albums (this was before itunes and such). Here if I couldn't figure out the artist or album I would have had something I could let someone at the music store hear, to help me pin it down (good for more than just my memory).

But then the music industry piracy flap began and I figured the music industry really didn't want me to remember, and even less wanted me to have anything that might help me find the music to purchase. So I said fuck you RIAA!!! You'd rather call me a pirate than to see me as a customer.... I'm not going to pay you squat for that attitude.

If I buy at all today, I try to not have the RIAA in the transaction at all, but instead buy directly from the artist.
Obviously I don't buy hardly anything at all.

I also grew up helping garage bands out, where some of the musicans have become professional musicians.I've also seen others make it to some label, only to fail the industries financial machinery. So I have a good idea what the struggle is and how important it is who you know, more than how good of an artist you are, and that unless you become really successful, you are pretty much at the mercy of the industry's financial machinery and who you know.

This is not the sort of thing that helps one focus on their music, but rather promotes more mediocer (middle of the road) music, such as we have plenty of today.

But there is this new internet technology and advances in home recording and for any artist(s) that pick that up and runs with it, they can promote themselves thru it as well as the traditional method of live performances. They can build their own following, or in cases of failure, be more able to mix and match with other musicians to find that "sound" that they want, be it music or music and money.

Its by developing their own following that they also increase their bargaining prower with the labels. No more at the industry's mercy, but a player with weight. And this also helps the industry, as the failures don't have to subsidized by the successful artists monitray generation (thus making the theoretical payoff for the successfull signed artist, more)

But it is the story of the RIAA dog, with a fat juicy steak in it mouth, that crossing over a bridge, sees it reflection and its greed causing it to go after the steak in the reflection, resulting in dropping the steak it had, losing it in th e water.

It really is a time to eliminate the old music industry business model. For the benefit of the artist, and let real competition in to bring the consumer better music.

I'm a warezing d00d (1)

Werrismys (764601) | more than 8 years ago | (#14947830)

I used to buy all my music.

Then all three shops in Helsinki, Finland stopped selling psytrance.

I ordered mine from Sweden or Holland for a while... but why wait 2 weeks for something you can have in 2 hours?

I'm willing to pay. I'm not willing to wait.

When there are no psy shops in Finland, it's morally ok to ware everything. Well, some domestic psy bands exist but Finnish psy is too psy :-)

Notice who the CRIA blames (4, Interesting)

davebarnes (158106) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948023)

I did read (well, skimmed) the Comment and the 2 Appendices.
The CRIA blames "big corporate radio" for the downturn in CD sales.
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