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Xbox 360 Backup Discs Bootable

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the new-milestone dept.

287

An anonymous reader writes "The firmware of the Xbox 360 DVD drive has been hacked, allowing users to boot backups of games on the new Microsoft console. A group of hackers on the xboxhacker.net forum managed to trick the DVD firmware into reporting a recordable disc as an original Xbox 360 disc. This means that it will not allow booting of unsigned homebrew code (like Linux), as the signature check is not bypassed. This hack will just trick the Xbox 360 into thinking you inserted an original Xbox 360 disc, so it'll only boot unedited executables. A video has been released, the hack has not been released to the public (because it will be mainly used for piracy), but all the research of the last few months is publicly viewable."

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287 comments

"we don't want to support piracy" (5, Funny)

Quick Sick Nick (822060) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948876)

yeah, and I read playboy for the articles.

Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14948920)

I read Playboy mainly for the page numbers, and the index. I mainly enjoy looking up a random page in the index, and then finding it in the magazine by binary search. I've written a program in Perl that helps me train; I type in the number of pages, and then it selects a random page for me, following a gaussian distribution (I don't want to have to find the index! lol!) and then I navigate to it. After a few years practice, I've got down to an average of less than two seconds for any given page number. I've got my girlfriend doing it now as well, we can sometimes spend entire evenings sitting down with my Linux box, seeing who can get to page 58 first! Its absolutely fantastic.

Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14948949)

Actually, Playboy articles are pretty good, providing good analysis of all the hot topics, like global warming, politics, religion, law, freedom, etc., etc.

Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14948981)

Playboy's articles are a joke.

Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14949093)

you must be gay if all you can talk about is the articles.

Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (1)

jb.hl.com (782137) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949011)

HAHA!

Coffee, meet screen.

Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (1)

ajamer (955792) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949029)

yeah, and I read playboy for the articles.
and I modded my Xbox to get the babes

Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (2, Interesting)

linguizic (806996) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949084)

Wait a minute, playboy has articles?

Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (1)

Pneuma ROCKS (906002) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949328)

And they're "Interesting", apparently. I didn't know the thing had words.

Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (1, Interesting)

msobkow (48369) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949096)

Hate to say it, but from what I've heard, the XBox 360 is notorious for destroying disks. Unless the manufacturers are going to ship replacement disks, or Microsoft is going to replace console and damaged disks, I don't see that people have a choice but to burn images and leave the original safe.

Of course some of those dups will probably end up with neighbours, friends, or as posted ISOs.

What I find interesting is that it's yet another case of a "perfect" protection being broken. No matter how good the lock, a professional thief (or curious old-school hacker) will get past it. All locks ever do is keep out people who respect locks.

Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (2, Interesting)

NeMon'ess (160583) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949201)

I thought that was just when users moved or tilted the 360 when it was powered up. If they'd wait until the disc wasn't spinning there wouldn't be a problem. Anyone smart enough to understand this doesn't get to use this as an excuse to backup their games.

Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (2, Interesting)

rolfwind (528248) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949284)

How about Fair Use? Weren't music cassete back ups declared legal in a court of law in the 80's? Is that a good enough "excuse" for you?

Why in the world is a backup considered piracy? I have all my cds/movies on my harddrive precisely because I don't want to damage the discs and therefore have to buy the same crap again. It's the content industry that wants their products to have the advantages of both a physical medial and pure license, but without the downside of either.

firmware check on new games? (3, Interesting)

Brit_in_the_USA (936704) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948882)

how long until a game is released that checksums the DVD firmware and "updates it" to soemthing more secure?

( + reporting to MS Live if you have a hacked verison and cancelling your account? ala Blizzard?)

Re:firmware check on new games? (1)

Bacon Bits (926911) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948888)

How long until they hackers then change the checksums or add the obvious GOTO 30 line?

Re:firmware check on new games? (4, Funny)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948910)

How long until they hackers then change the checksums or add the obvious GOTO 30 line?

Yes, but Microsoft is cunning you see, they number their program lines one by one instead of 10 by 10, so you can't insert a GOTO line. And RENUM is disabled. Clever I tell you!

Re:firmware check on new games? (1)

Firehed (942385) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949077)

Um... GOTO 3? Not as clever as you thought :p

Re:firmware check on new games? (1)

Kagura (843695) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949369)

Yeah, but what is the line number that GOTO 3 belongs on? I think I know what the whooshing noise you just heard was, by the way. :)

Re:firmware check on new games? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14948935)

"how long until a game is released that checksums the DVD firmware and "updates it" to soemthing more secure?"

That was never much of a problem with an original soft modded Xbox and I doubt that it'll be much of a concern on the 360 either. Especially, once soft mods become more advanced. Xbox live can certainly pose a problem for novices who have had there Xbox soft modded, but even that is fairly trivial to work around. Also, the vast majority of Xbox users aren't interested in Xbox live and have never used or even tried it. Only a very small percentage of Xbox users (something under 5%) even try Xbox live. I know a ton of people with original Xboxes and I've never even seen Xbox live and have no interest in it what so ever.

Re:firmware check on new games? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14948956)

The XBox360 is marketed almost entirely around XBox Live. The entire system has been totally revamped (including a free, less feature-full version that anyone can, and should connect to). The new XBox live is going to be a lot different than the old.

Re:firmware check on new games? (1)

YU Nicks NE Way (129084) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949006)

There's no reason for Microsoft to do that. If a game can checksum the DVD through a game and push down a reset, then all Microsoft needs to do is push down a kernel update to your box which will force-update the DVD firmware whenever you turn on the box (or even whenever you insert a DVD, to prevent the obvious 'turn the box on, throw a switch to replace the firmware, and go from there' hack.)

Re:firmware check on new games? (4, Insightful)

hazem (472289) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949022)

Isn't that just a really bad "security" model... that any old game you put in your system has the ability to re-write the firmware? Isn't that just asking for trouble?

netcrap confirms it (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14948887)

xbox 360 is dyeing

Re:netcrap confirms it (1)

bod1988 (925911) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949275)

The Xbox isn't dieing, but your spelling is.

Re:netcrap confirms it (2, Funny)

__michikal (959040) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949364)

Your irony, however, is not dying.

(because it will be mainly used for piracy) (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14948889)

That's got to be the dumbest thing I have heard all week.

The real question is..... (-1, Redundant)

Zibara (910310) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948894)

.....can it run Linux now?

Re:The real question is..... (1)

gabebear (251933) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949140)

no

better video (5, Informative)

Quick Sick Nick (822060) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948900)

If you don't want to wait 30 seconds to download the video, stream it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyZQ4k7Bi-8 [youtube.com]

Re:better video (1)

YU Nicks NE Way (129084) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949257)

Dumb question: has anyone actually replicated this result? All I've seen is something which could just as easily be a recorded DVD movie...

hmmmmm (1)

fftl4life (961774) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948913)

well, microsoft definatly should have seen that coming, especially with how advanced dvd burners are, and how much storage the dvds have, i am surprised no one fugured it out sooner. good job to the ones who did that, cheers

Re:hmmmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14948928)

they did figure it was going to happen, all through out they have been saying that they knew it would get hacked by they were trying to reduce the legitimate reasons for hacking it (read: Xbox Media Center) also they were attempting to make live good enough that it wasn't worth the trade offs.

Re:hmmmmm (1)

oedneil (871555) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949019)

What does the "storage" of a DVD have to do with this?

Microsoft will.... (1)

madnuke (948229) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948919)

Patch this as soon as possible otherwise they will not make money, and why do all the Xbox 360 hacking videos have the top of the console taken off, I'm still not fully convinced of the video seeing as we can't see the back of the tv.

Re:Microsoft will.... (1)

InsideTheAsylum (836659) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949042)

That's what I was thinking, but they had the A/V cable neatly coiled in front of the TV..

Re:Microsoft will.... (1)

madnuke (948229) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949057)

Could be another Xbox 360 plugged into the back?

Re:Microsoft will.... (1)

gabebear (251933) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949216)

If this video is real there isn't really any easy "patch" Microsoft can put out. If the part of the firmware that is in charge of downloading/uploading itself was also modified then I don't see how they could ever detect this hack without reulting to draconian means like putting a unique key on each copy of each disk sold and then forcing people to register their discs online.

Re:Microsoft will.... (1)

Rickler (894262) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949276)

The RCA cables are plugd right into the front... I'm skeptical because the DVD has a white top; would be more believable with a mirror sided DVD.

Forget Piracy. Solution For Disc Scratching Mess (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14948923)

No matter how much some people try to blame the problem on user error, the 360 has a massive problem scratching disc. And no it is not because 'some idiot moved the machine while playing'.

The 360 will scratch every disc you put in it, the only question is how badly and how long before it completely trashes the disc for good. Being able to back up and never have to put my original games in the machine will be a help with this hardware mess Microsoft has on their hands.

Re:Forget Piracy. Solution For Disc Scratching Mes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14948948)

I've yet to have a single game, movie, or audio cd get scratched by my 360.

Re:Forget Piracy. Solution For Disc Scratching Mes (3, Funny)

Ethoscapade (790247) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948977)

it's not so much "scratching" as it is "burning a series of tiny little rings in these DVDs as if they were vinyls exactly how fast is this thing spinning jesus christ the disc is actually hot"

Re:Forget Piracy. Solution For Disc Scratching Mes (1)

Voltageaav (798022) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949286)

Yeah, I know. The other day, it froze up in the middle of a game after I had been playing for a while so I take the disc out and it was so hot I droped it.

Re:Forget Piracy. Solution For Disc Scratching Mes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14949361)

Uh, having your 360 discs scratched is Not Funny after spending 400 dollars on the system and 50-60 bucks per game.

Microsoft deserves the class action suit that is in the works for the scratching/disc destroying problem.

Re:Forget Piracy. Solution For Disc Scratching Mes (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14949250)

Proof, rather than anecdote? I find it hard to believe that the XBox 360's drive is substantially different than any other drive that is out there, and is actually worse than the thousands of different drives that have been employed for years and years.

Please provide some actual proof of increased scratches compared to another drive or console.

Re:Forget Piracy. Solution For Disc Scratching Mes (4, Informative)

SpryWeb (962094) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949295)

If you want to stop scratches on your original games, use d_skin protectors... Every game should have one... http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product_id=801 784 [gamestop.com]

Mainly used? (0)

Stiletto (12066) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948925)


They're not releasing it because it would be mainly used for piracy??? Hey, it's their software, and they can do what they want with it, but what a lame excuse! That's like Smith & Wesson not releasing their latest gun because "it would be mainly used for killing".

Re:Mainly used? (1)

The Lerneaen Hydra (885793) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948951)

I would expect that they said this to try to stop the immediate actions of Microsoft, who are probably not very pleased with this. I would believe that one of the people that have developed this hack will discreetly leak it to some torrent site, after which it will spread like wildfire.

Re:Mainly used? (1)

blanktek (177640) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948968)

If Smith and Wesson didn't release they're gun to the public because it would mainly be used for killing, and it was fully automatic, night vision, etc. then it probably is used for killing.

Re:Mainly used? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14949032)

because only fully automatic guns with night vision are used for killing?

oh, and they're,there and their are not interchangeable.

Re:Mainly used? (2, Informative)

Phil Wilkins (5921) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948987)

The nature of the hack is that it masks a DVD-R as a factory pressed DVD. So all it lets you do, is boot 100% copies of existing titles. To boot homebrew, or imports, you'd need to crack the digital signature, or hack the main firmware, which hasn't happened. So there'll probably be pretty good piracy / 'backup' mod-chips available soon, but no homebrew yet.

Re:Mainly used? (1)

slavemowgli (585321) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949024)

Depending on who you ask, copyright infringement is a much more serious crime than murder...

Re:Mainly used? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14949027)

That's like Smith & Wesson not releasing their latest gun because "it would be mainly used for killing".

Well, to be fair, killing is not illegal per se. I don't know about self defense (manslaughter?), but killing enemy combatants in a war and hunting animals are very often legal.

IANAL, but I think just releasing this hack could be illegal by itself under the DMCA.

Re:Mainly used? (4, Insightful)

Aneurysm9 (723000) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949138)

Well, to be fair, killing is not illegal per se.

Neither is creating a backup copy of software you have purchased, nor is utilising that backup copy. As for the DMCA, there is an explicit exception for reverse engineering for interoperability that does not limit it to interoperability of software with other systems. It could just as easily be read to allow modification for interoperability with other software.

Re:Mainly used? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14949109)

Wow. Can you imagine what a great world it would be if that kind of thing happened? If there were no guns, because everyone refused to make them?

I don't think it's a particularly relevant point to this discussion, copyright infringement is in a different league to killing...

(hmm, now I'm waiting for RIAA propaganda that "music sharing is murder!" if anything would convince mt to download N'sync that would be it...)

Ability to boot non-Microsoft code more useful (4, Interesting)

Animats (122034) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948929)

This is the "piracy" hack. A way to cleanly boot non-Microsoft content would be more useful. Microsoft probably couldn't do much about that legally; if you own the unit, you have no obligation to play only approved content.

Re:Ability to boot non-Microsoft code more useful (2, Insightful)

zlogic (892404) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949034)

"if you own the unit, you have no obligation to play only approved content"
Yes, but if you try to trick (and it is the only way) the DRM that prevents non-original content from loading you're violating the DCMA.

Re:Ability to boot non-Microsoft code more useful (1)

mtenhagen (450608) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949049)

Microsoft sells the xbox360 also in places where the DCMA means nothing.

Re:Ability to boot non-Microsoft code more useful (5, Funny)

Aranth Brainfire (905606) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949068)

The DMCA always means something, even if it's just "Haha, boy am I glad we don't have a law like that here"

Re:Ability to boot non-Microsoft code more useful (3, Insightful)

Gadzinka (256729) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949117)

Yeah, but booting non-MS code is much more difficult than booting copied discs. All you need to boot copies of retail games is DVD-ROM telling xbox, that it's xbox360dvd in the drive.

In order to run unsigned binaries you have to crack several levels of protection, some of them embedded into the processor itself. And these are not your garden variety propriety measures hackable in an hour by sophomore CS student.

So, you still can't run XBMC (NG) on Xbox360, but you can play all the pirated games you want. Weird, isn't it?

I own original Xbox modified with DuoX modchip. Of course I have several pirated games installed on my (upgraded) HD. I would have bought some games I love (like burnout 3, 4), if it weren't for extremely stupid, suicidal policy of MS to ship Xbox with defective DVD drives that don't read DVD-R etc disks[1].

So, for me it's funny... MS is doing anything it can to make Xbox 360 unatractive to me and to prevent me from ever buying legal copies of games for either its old or new system... ;)

Robert

PS If you want to condemn me as unwashed pirate, bugger off. I have a DVD collection bought legally, exceeding 300 DVD-s. Give me fair deal and I'll make your toilet solid gold. But if you want me to bend over for marginal gain, you must have been smoking something very strong all of your life.

[1] You see, me and my wife are compulsive sci-fi/crime series watchers. Unlike me, my wife can't really comprehend them in English, so whenever I buy dvd set I process it to add Polish translation. But -- in order to play those remastered DVDs -- I had to change the Xbox DVD drive to PC DVD drive, to read DVD-R. And PC DVD drive won't read original xboxdvd discs...

Re:Ability to boot non-Microsoft code more useful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14949161)

In France, the media's protections are PROHIBITED!!!

In France, the XBox360's media's protections are PROHIBITED!!!

In France, the PS3's media's protections are PROHIBITED!!!

This is step 1 of 2. (1)

babbling (952366) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949205)

In order to run arbitrary code, two things are needed:
- The Xbox needs to boot from DVD recordable discs. (this news means that's been done)
- The encryption that checks whether or not the executable code is "signed" needs to be overcome. (yet to be done)

So, this is important. The next part is probably harder, though.

Re:This is step 1 of 2. (2, Insightful)

It'sYerMam (762418) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949290)

You don't need this hack to run arbitrary code, only the signature hack. In fact, if there were a signature hack, you wouldn't need this, as you could change the flag telling the XBox what media the executable should be run off, and then recompute the signature, or perhaps find a collision.

For arbitrary code, you compute the signature for whatever you want - media flag and all.

drm sucks (4, Insightful)

MikeFM (12491) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948931)

DRM is a stupid idea. It never stops hackers but it stops the average consumer from having the full use of the device they've legally bought. Making backups should be a fully protected right. Not a limited number of backup copies - as many as I happen to want to make. If I make a backup and then run it over with my car it shouldn't matter because my original is in a safe location and I can just make a new backup.

Of course 'backup' for the copy you're using isn't a very good term.

Re:drm sucks (1)

bbqpope (860883) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948969)

I remeber buying games for the pc that came on floppies and one of the first things they told you to do was to make backups of the installer disks. I failed to do that with a few games and was sad when one of my disks for theme park was corrupt... there were like 14 disks and it took me 30 mins or so to install it.

Re:drm sucks (1)

MikeFM (12491) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949050)

Any kind of disk is failable so it makes total sense to backup software, movies, music, etc. Not doing so isn't smart, not being able to is just stupid. Of course they want you to have to buy duplicates as it's much easier to sell you one item you like over and over than to make new items you'll like. Lazy bastards.

Re:drm sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14949153)

Very good point, you pushed the general consensus one step farther.

They put DRM to sell you the same thing over and over again, I thought it was just because they are simply greedy. But I never realized they could just have realized very cynically it's just easier this way than selling you something else.

Bollocks (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14949108)

You know it and I know it: the right to make a backup is nothing but an excuse for unlimited copyright infringement.

At least I'm honest about it. Yeah. I steal stuff when I "backup" my friends' DVDs, "backup" rental DVDs and download other peoples' "backups" off the net. Be a man, admit it too.

Re:Bollocks (3, Insightful)

Dibblah (645750) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949291)

Uh.... Huh. You're a man, are you, Mr Anonymous Coward?

Re:drm sucks (5, Insightful)

GlassHeart (579618) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949207)

DRM is a stupid idea. It never stops hackers but it stops the average consumer from having the full use of the device they've legally bought.

I don't like DRM either, but one fallacy among opponents is the distinction between "average consumers" and "pirates". The problem is that average consumers can easily become pirates if various conditions are ripe: the original seems expensive, copying is easy, nobody is ever punished, etc. There are entire countries of "average consumers" who almost never buy original software or music.

Re:drm sucks (1)

MikeFM (12491) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949292)

The problem being that companies are using DRM to make up for overpriced shitty products. With a decent product and decent pricing people will buy the software. As it is the average consumer is quickly learning to find free, already cracked, copies anyhow. Either they are smart enough to find it online or they just find a friend that is. Most people I know that defend commercial software are either people trying to make a living from that software or a consumer that is getting it all for free anyway. The people that have to pay (overpay) for their software aren't as forgiving when it crashes or otherwise sucks. None sucky none overpriced is the key to profits and keeping people from copying.

Nice timing! (2, Informative)

PhoenixOne (674466) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948938)

Next week at the GDC we can ask the Microsoft rep all sorts of awkward questions. :)

Nice tune! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14948939)

"we don't want to support piracy"

Nice tune under that video ;-)

B@rt

Tut, tut, tut... (4, Funny)

dwalsh (87765) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948940)

the hack has not been released to the public (because it will be mainly used for piracy)
It is sad to see so much cynicism in the world :-)

Surprised it took this long (4, Interesting)

ryants (310088) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948947)

Frankly I'm surprised it took this long, given that the Xbox 360 will boot burned CDs/DVDs for backwards compatibility updates [xbox.com] .

I always thought that was a pretty good area of attack right there.

Re:Surprised it took this long (4, Interesting)

cnettel (836611) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949110)

Well, it doesn't help that much, as it's the signature that determines how a valid image may be started (and no commercial game will say "burned booting OK"). Now, all software written by MS really "sees" the disc as a real DVD, completely independent of whether booting from burned DVDs is supported or not. The only way to block this would be to block flashing DVD firmware (wise) or blocking reading burned discs in hardware. The latter would of course make it less usable for playing CDs or video in more or less legitimate ways that MS still wants to support.

Re:Surprised it took this long (1)

gabebear (251933) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949246)

Even if the DVD firmware is/was unflashable you can always remove/disable it and add your own. XBox 1.6s don't have flashable TSOPs but their are plenty of modchips to override their firmware.

Also, I doubt that the XBox compatability CDs are actually booted. I'd bet that the 360 checks for that type of disk the same way it checks for DVDs and launches the software from the HD, and even then I'm sure the data has to be signed.

Not releasing (1)

Xymor (943922) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948958)

I wish they would release it at once. It will come out eventually. It's a great powerful machine will tons of cool feats, and I know lots of people dyeing to make homebrew/linux-ports/apps for it.

Re:Not releasing (1)

Illbay (700081) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949098)

You know lots of people "dying" to make homebrew Linux apps for the Xbox 360?

What a country.

Re:Not releasing (1)

gabebear (251933) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949255)

This hack doesn't allow homebrew at all. It only allows you to copy signed 360 binaries off an official 360 CD and onto a burned disk. Defeating the signed executable requirment is what will allow Linux and homebrew to be possible.

Re:Not releasing (1)

It'sYerMam (762418) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949324)

This hack does not enable homebrew anything, and nor is it necessary for homebrew code. It can only be used for making backups - whether that is legitimate is the issue.

Morality (-1, Troll)

Henry V .009 (518000) | more than 8 years ago | (#14948967)

Interesting how the article claims that this allows a user to "boot backups." A more neutral phrasing would have been "boot copies."

It's clear that the submitter of the article doesn't think the moral case for this type of thing is strong enough to stand on its own. He has to help it along, and slightly mislead his audience despite the fact that the vast majority of the copies this is used for will be pirated copies rather than backup copies.

So, submitter, why don't you have the courage of your convictions?

Re:Morality (5, Funny)

Haeleth (414428) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949039)

It's clear that the submitter of the article doesn't think the moral case for this type of thing is strong enough to stand on its own. He has to help it along, and slightly mislead his audience despite the fact that the vast majority of the copies this is used for will be pirated copies rather than backup copies.

Huh? The submitter wrote, right there in the summary, "it will be mainly used for piracy". I really don't see how he could have been any blunter about it. It does not look to me like there is any attempt being made to mislead readers in any way whatsoever.

But I'm not surprised to see a response like yours. However someone phrases it, there's always someone who thinks they should have phrased it more strongly. I expect that even if the submitter had opened the article with "Filthy bloodsucking terrorist pedophile pirates have raped America's freedom once again in a savage assault on the copyright protections that keep our children safe", then someone would still have complained that he was being too sympathetic to them... ;)

Re:Morality (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14949148)

'backups' would be the generic phrase used for pirated copies for the xbox1 (primarily on forums to avoid the anti 'supporting piracy' rules). The video clearly shows both the 'backup' and the original disc in the photo also btw.

PS3 future? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14948986)

This is the moment all gamers have been waiting for... free (or next to free) games on a state of the art game console.
Sales of the XBOX360 are going to soar!
This is good news for Microsoft's XBOX division.
 
If this hack really works, then the PS3's future looks bleak, very bleak indeed...

Re:PS3 future? (1)

DrMrLordX (559371) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949031)

Are you sure about that? Yes, increased sales of the console itself gives MS a larger installed base for their console, which is normally good when purchases of licensed titles are the result. However, if the ONLY reason for purchasing a 360 is to run pirated games, then it's not necessarily a good thing for MS. They aren't making money on each console sale, after all.

Re:PS3 future? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14949046)

I honestly dont believe that Microsoft looses money on XBOX360 sales.
 
Consider this scenario/business model... a hack is discovered early on allowing backup games to be played. Microsoft claims it could take some time (even years) to fix it. Massive uptake in XBOX360 consoles. Microsoft patches the hole, after target sales have been reached.
 
Marketing genius!

Re:PS3 future? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14949154)

However, they still have bragging & marketing rights to say "We have X many units sold, you too should buy it / make games for it"

Re:PS3 future? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14949158)

There's no profit foe M$ if I only play rented games either.

Anyone else notice they didn't show the back? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14948998)

It was probably just an oversight, given it's probably about time a hack for the 360 came out, but did anyone else notice they showed everything hooked up nice and neat to the front of the TV, but never went around to the back of it to show that there wasn't another 360 plugged in there?

XBMC (1)

stx23 (14942) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949000)

If the Media Connect thing streamed any type of video to the 360, I'd retire my Xbox with XBMC already. As it is, I have to wait until someone breaks the box to let me work around it.

I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that thinking, and that is why I watch this sort of thing with baited breath.

Impact on PS3 (1)

Lomby (147071) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949016)

Really, this could impact the future of PS3 much more than the delay or Blue Ray/HD DVD madness.

Citations (3, Interesting)

OpenSourced (323149) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949017)

From the post:
the hack has not been released to the public

From Jane Austen's "Emma":
'It's to be a secret, I conclude,' said he. These matters are always a secret, till it is found out that everybody knows them. Only let me be told when I may speak out.'"

One small step (3, Interesting)

Enselic (933809) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949040)

I remember hackers speaking of how easy hacking the Xbox 360 will be, that it will only take hours once it is released.

Now, 4 months after the release, they manage to hack a disc. Microsoft sure has given them a challenge this time.

Re:One small step (0, Flamebait)

HermanAB (661181) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949072)

Hmm, I guess one problem is that no-one cares...

Trying to eat the cake and have it too (2, Insightful)

ikejam (821818) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949074)

I'm guessing the good researchers figured if they publicly took the credit AND released the code, they'll be in the crosshairs of (MS||HomelandSec:-s||Feds||++) in a minute. If its not already illegal (isnt it?) , it'll probably soon be.
So they figure they wont release the code.
They say, hey its possible.
They say, hey this is the exact result.
They say, hey this is how we've been going abt it these past few months.
They say, sorry folks, y'know we'd love to spread the good hack around, but y'know
piracy's piracy, and we dont want to get in range of the long arm of the law.

24 hrs later.
Ult.XBoxHack.360.FirmwareUpdate.CRaCkED.l33T.torre nt..

They say, huh what??

Well, Good Luck...

LOL (3, Interesting)

bogie (31020) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949081)

"the hack has not been released to the public (because it will be mainly used for piracy)"

Then why did they bother? Testing XP or linux to see if its security is working is one thing. That has real world consequences. Testing it is a noble cause IMHO. Hacking the firmware of a gaming system make get done to "boot linux" but we all know the real world implication here. I don't frown on this morally one bit but let's not kid ourselves here. Information may want to be free, but people want free games even more.

Implications for xbox live (2, Interesting)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949085)

I was wondering why somebody didn't try this before. It would allow you to play copied games on xbox live without getting banned as well since the main xbox firmware hasn't been tampered with, nor has any other hardware been modified in any way.

I suppose microsoft could detect this on live by scanning the dvd drives firmware, but the data contained on the firmware itself could easily be spoofed. The other software on the xbox has to relie on whatever the firmware itself says it has. Somebody could just add code to the firmware that sends false data to external reads. All it has to do is report whatever data the console would expect it to have and then detection would become impossible.

People who would want to cheat on xbox live would be out of luck, since afterall, the signature checks are still in place.

Re:Implications for xbox live (1)

cnettel (836611) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949119)

If they were elaborate, they would ask the firmware to pump every single bit back out of it. It would be quite a feat to compress it enough to fit in the code to give a fake image of itself, not just a fake version number, and do the real hack. Especially if MS decides to release an update where any non-used zero bytes are replaced by uncompressable noise.

Re:Implications for xbox live (1)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949172)

Problem with that though is checking each bit at a time would take a lot of time, which would probably annoy most of the users. But that wouldn't matter anyways as it should be easy enough for the firmware code to tell the difference between regular program execution and a read coming from the other side of the IDE controller. Afterall, the firmware code itself is responsible for carrying out such reads.

In terms of storage space for carrying spoof data, you could always substitute the original firmware chip with a larger one that is compatible. Assuming that is even necessary in the first place, as I don't think the x360 dvd firmware uses up the entire chip.

Hell, the bios firmware for the original xbox was only 256kb large and it resided on a 1MB tsop.

Re:Implications for xbox live (1)

Mprx (82435) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949188)

Maybe it would be possible to desolder the flash chip and replace it with a higher capacity one. Then it could contain both the official firmware for confirmation purposes and the hacked one for booting for DVDRs.

But i wont release it.. (2, Insightful)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 8 years ago | (#14949186)

Phfft. What garbage. If you arent going to release, it why even bother telling anyone? Its not like your work can be replicated ( proved ) and it makes you look like you are just making it up.

" i found out the secret of area 51, but since it might be used improperly , ill just not tell you the details ".. its about as valid as he story subject.

And as a disclaimer, im not a gamer.
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