US Government Seeks Open-Source Translation 309
valdean writes "The Boston Globe is reporting that last week the United States Government began publishing captured Iraqi documents on the web in order to harness the translating talents of the bilingual public. The article calls it 'the same open source principle' that created Linux. Check out the Foreign Military Studies Office's document portal."
Good, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
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They need help! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Good, but... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Good, but... (Score:2)
Actually, some sort of WikiTranslate or WikiTranslation sounds like a great idea, assuming something similar doesn't already exist. One could use it to translate not just these documents, but any documents/speeches/videos which are under a compatible license. It would also be quite a useful training corpus for machine-translation software.
Re:Good, but... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Good, but... (Score:2)
Better Analysis: Deft Ploy by American Government (Score:2, Insightful)
I call, "BS", on this story.
The American government already knows what those documents state, in the Iraqi language. The purpose of presenting those documents
Re:Better Analysis: Deft Ploy by American Governme (Score:3, Interesting)
Is this like the time the American govt knew where there were 50 tons of chemical weapons in Iraq?
A pl
Re:Better Analysis: Deft Ploy by American Governme (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes. That is exactly the case. It isn't a matter of money. It's a matter of not enough people with the required skillset. The US government has had n
Re:Better Analysis: Deft Ploy by American Governme (Score:2)
People with the required skillset who apply for a job in the intelligence services are in fact suspect [danielpipes.org], and cannot easily get security clearance since 911. I isn't easy for an intelligence
Re:Better Analysis: Deft Ploy by American Governme (Score:5, Insightful)
I think many people project their status onto other, so if everyone you know has a computer and is connected to the internet, and just because you see insurgents advertising on the internet, does not mean that everyone has access to the internet. I've been to the Middle East (not Iraq), where the majority of people do not have computers let alone internet access.
However, you are correct, I call BS as well that they need the "public's" help to translate documents.
Open source: Can I change them? (Score:2)
This whole thing is a crock. It is a way to get more people to read documents. No doubt the documents have been well chosen to work for those presenting them.
Re:Better Analysis: Deft Ploy by American Governme (Score:2)
Good arabic translators (say rated 3+ on the Interagency Language Roundtable scale), particularly ones able to acquire a top secret clearance, command salaries of ~$150k+. This means they probably cost the government $300k+.
At any rate, more transparency into these documents is unarguably a good thing.
Hypocrite (Score:5, Insightful)
US Government Gives Too Much information to the public there US Government is bad.
US Govermnet translates documents to skew them to their own meaning there US Government is bad.
US Government releases documents for the puclic to translate therefore US Government is bad.
Give me a fcking break.
And I won't even bother explaining the tons of goofy dialects that make translating Arabic from anywhere very difficult. You practically have to have a translator born in the neighborhood where the document was written. I took Arabis for a year and went nuts when learning every phrase went like: This is how the phrase is said in Saudi Arabis; this is how it is said in Egypt, this is how it is said in Kuwait, this is how it is said in this part of Bahrain... and so on.
Re:Better Analysis: Deft Ploy by American Governme (Score:2)
That's right. They'll spend $12 for a hammer but not even $2 for a translator!
And another possibility is... (Score:2)
While there may be a psych op going on, it is possible that they are post translating docs that have already been translated once( keep in mind that they had a serious backlog). If say 5 translation occur and they are similar, but the one that the cia employee did was wrong, it would indicate that there is a problem with them.
Re:Better Analysis: Deft Ploy by American Governme (Score:3, Informative)
No, that was just more spin from Condi Rice.
Re:Good, but... (Score:2)
Roe was the cargo of the 18-wheeler.
The lorry carried caviar.
Translation is an art. While this is an extreme example, those three sentences could have come from the same Arabic sentence. Yet, the only words they have in common are "the" and "was".
Getting good translations is hard. Comparing them could be just as hard. Though, I have to say, I like the idea of collaborative translations - particularly for small, self-contained, documents.
Classification? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Classification? (Score:3, Informative)
From the article:
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Re:Classification? (Score:5, Funny)
I think that's a pretty safe bet.
Not really (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not really (Score:2)
Re:Not really (Score:2)
More interesting though, is that many of his own top generals and officials didn't know this. They thought he did have the weapons up until nearly the very end.
Sadam wanted everyone to think he had those weapons. And he did one hell of a job convincing the world. Ironic that it lead to his downfall (we would have had a hard time going in and removing him without that, even though he still needed to be removed).
Re:Not really (Score:2, Insightful)
Why? He was one of the less dangerous dictators. It would have made far more sense to go after a dictator that nobody denies is developing WMD, like Kim Jong-Il. Or after a dictator whose human rights violations are the horror of the civilized world, like Than Shwe or Saparmurat Niyazov.
Or even, if we wish to think of our own interests first, after a leader whose anti-U.S. policies actually threaten our oil imports, like Hugo Chavez, or a dictator who is in a position to stri
Re:Not really (Score:2)
99 bottles of beer on the wall ... 99 bottles of beer ...
Re:Not really (Score:2)
That's because they were one of the three enemies he feared (the other ones being the Shi'a/Iran and the US). Saddam couldn't possibly have revealed to them (or Iran) that the emperor has no clothes.
Sadam wanted everyone to think he had those weapons. And he did one hell of a job convincing the world. Ironic that it lead to his downfall (we would hav
No Matter (Score:2)
Re:Classification? (Score:2)
Re:Classification? (Score:2)
This is an excellent way to disseminate lots of potentially inaccurate or out-of-context information from IRAQ to the rest of the world, without any corroberation on the content.
Pretty cool idea really - let us translate and distribute propoganda ourselves.
Re:Classification? (Score:2)
These documents will form th
Open-Source? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Open-Source? (Score:2)
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The Games section is pretty now! [mozilla.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Yes. Open formats would help... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Open-Source? (Score:2, Informative)
Here it is (Score:5, Funny)
"I want to rip the American's throats out and shove it up their asses -- Saddam"
"I want to rip the American's throats out and shove it up their asses -- Bin Laden"
"I want to rip the American's throats out and shove it up their asses -- Iran"
I think I'm getting the hang of this translation stuff.
Whew! That's reassuring! (Score:5, Funny)
Luckily, your expert usage of English grammer re-assures me.
Apparently they are only upset at one (unnamed) American who has multiple throats, and they wish to shove each of these up the asses of an (unnamed) third party that consists of more than one person. Or it could be that this particular individual's throats also have asses... which makes the action somewhat circular...
Well, I don't have multiple throats, so my neck must be out of danger... But my ass might be the target of their threat.
Re:Whew! That's reassuring! (Score:2)
Hehe.
Re:Here it is (Score:2)
Just because some things are absolute doesn't mean everything is absolute. Just because some things are relative doesn't mean everything is relative.
For example, it is an absolute truth that the desk in front of me exists. This is universally verifiable by anyone who wants to make the trek to my residence. It is a relative truth that Coca-Cola tastes good. Some people like it; some peopl
Re:Here it is (Score:2)
"I love America -- Anonymous Sunni"
"I love America -- Iran"
The government cherrypicks which articles they want to release, and then uses them to create a positive image of the war. The only thing being open sourced here is their propaganda machine. Based on Bush's past nominations, I'm guessing Armstrong Williams is going to be the head of this department.
Odd (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Odd (Score:2)
Idiot (Score:2)
So, I'm guessing from your flippant remarks that you have no idea what the NSA does? Really, neither do I for the most part, but I sort of speculate that code breaking is not the only thing they do, for example we do know they also bug phones... Maybe, just maybe, they also employ linguists? It's possible, you know.
Re:Idiot (Score:2)
Re:Odd (Score:2)
Re:Odd (Score:2)
If only that where true. You give the policy makers too mych credit, I think.
Re:Odd (Score:2)
Why? Are you saying they would never think to gather intelligence about possible influential arabs? The NSA, FBI and CIA have a long history of doing these kinds of things. From the weatherman and the black panthers in the sixties, to MLK, to John Lennon, to the peace activists today.
This has been a standard operating procedure of the US intelligence for decades now.
Re:Odd (Score:2)
Re:Odd (Score:2)
And here's where we put the Ark of the Covenant... (Score:2, Funny)
See you, suckers!
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Easier Solution (Score:2)
are we changing the definition? (Score:4, Funny)
Do the Amish then have "open source" barn raisings?
Re:are we changing the definition? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:are we changing the definition? (Score:5, Interesting)
Coincidentally, the use of the phrase "open source" in the intelligence community actually predates its use regarding software, using it to refer to intelligence gathered from publically-available sources. From wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_intellig
Open source intelligence or "OSINT" refers to an intelligence gathering discipline based on analyzing information collected from open sources, i.e. information available to the general public. These sources include newspapers, the internet, books, phone books, scientific journals, radio broadcasts, television, and others. The term OSINT is unrelated to the term open source as that term is used in the computer software community to refer to programs whose source code is publicly available (and modifiable). OSINT should also not be generally confused with OSIF (Open Source Information) on which OSINT is based. OSIF is any information that is publicly available; OSINT is analytically-tailored OSIF designed to answer a specific tasking or to support decision-making.
Ah... so really that is the correct usage (Score:2)
Learn somethin' new everyday. thx!
Re:are we changing the definition? (Score:2)
Work for free? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Work for free? (Score:2)
Concidering Tax Freedom Day [taxfoundation.org] won't be till mid April, we're already working for the government for free. And here you are wasting your time on /.!
But seriously... I would think this would be an interesting project. Peeps donate cycles and time to looking for ET signals, break factored codes, and any number of medical processing. Why not this? The government, in a this rare case, is putting the stuff out there for anyone to translate but if they just told us what it sa
Re:Work for free? (Score:2)
Much better to keep it in house.
A little perspective: (Score:2)
Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking about doing, working for free for the US government
If you're not employed by the federal government and you live and work in the United States, you already do.
It's not like these're important docs... (Score:2)
John Loftus Transation Services (Score:2)
Amazingly enough, every singe document details proof that Saddam had WMD programs in place!
We have the proof! Bush was right! The war is justified!
We always had the proof.
No one ever doubted Saddam had WMD. Clinton was a coward and a Commie for not going to war to kill him. Bush Sr. would have finished it but the French must have chickened out
erm.. (Score:2, Interesting)
I mean seriously, what type of people will want to support this government. All they get back in return is the loss of basic human rights and in the future finger pointing. It's a lose-lose situation.
Baloney (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Baloney (Score:2)
The recent thinning of the Bush camp as those who are better in touch with reality make haste to leave the sinking ship can't have done the intelligence profile of the GOP any.
As a Bush supp
not fun! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:not fun! (Score:2)
Bilingual people with enough time and interest in Iraq will read them, but there is really no point in putting effort into translating them unless you think they are relevant for the general public, which they obviously aren't according to the US government.
Doing a good translation into a foreign language is more work than just reading stuff, or even writing for that matter. I don't even want to translate my own
Lost in Translation (Score:2)
Re:Lost in Translation (Score:2)
isn't this the same government (Score:2)
so what then is posting iraqi documents for every iraqi terrorist to read before anyone can translate them going to do?
i say we get rid of everyone running this debacle and start over.
Sell my soul to the devil? No, thanks. (Score:2, Interesting)
The incentive of open-source is that a lot of people will benefit from your work, and not some greedy individual (Thanks to the GPL). For me, it'd be the same as if Gates started up a contest for who could come up with a better OS and Linus and the other hackers handed their work to him. Gates could have then started making profit out of their work.
I am not American, but I'd guess most open-source enthusiasts out there are better informed than the average Jo
Re:Sell my soul to the devil? No, thanks. (Score:2)
Yeah!
We don't need to translate the documents - we're better informed and know what they say before we even read them!
Re:Sell my soul to the devil? No, thanks. (Score:2)
Think how many poor Iraqis would benefit from your work. Band new bombs delivered right to their door step.</sarcasm> Yes, I also have a hard time imagining why any arabic-speaking (muslim or not) person would want to contribute to the American intelligence effort.
Over reliance on technology (Score:2)
Lame I know (Score:2)
Maybe I'm off base here, but.... (Score:3, Interesting)
This seems quite an odd thing to me... unless they are trying to ferret out people in the US and allied countries that are both capable of and willing to translate such information. That sounds like some new kind of profiling to me... well, I could just be paranoid...
Re:Maybe I'm off base here, but.... (Score:2)
Wow... Do you get out much?
I mean, is that how you really see the Middle East? They're so backwards that they couldn't possibly have more than 100K websites amongst more than 300 million Arabic speaking people?
I guess there must be... like 100 total Jewish language sites, since there aren't really that many Jews in the world. Right?
Ignorance such as yours will not be changed by citing internet usage numbers. It obviously goes
Indeed (Score:2)
Welcome to the war machine you nerds, didn't think your little hobby would get drug along as a mascott did you.
You know what sucks, it works every time every where.
Re:Maybe I'm off base here, but.... (Score:2)
First paragraph is sarcastic
Second paragraph was semi-serious questioning of the motives of such efforts
slashdot as a weapon (Score:2, Troll)
"You are entering an Official United States Government System, which may be used only for authorized purposes. Unauthorized modification of any information stored on this system may result in criminal prosecution. The Government may monitor and audit the usage of this system, and all persons are hereby notified that use of this system constitutes consent to such monitoring and auditing."
This is just to create logs of the slashdot effect so they can use this to bring down enemy websites.
This
Frightening propaganda (Score:2, Interesting)
The US Government has made no determination regarding the authenticity of the documents, validity or factual accuracy of the information contained therein, or the quality of any translations, when available.
Wiki-style scholarship has been criticized sufficiently on
Spirit of open source? (Score:2)
That's subtly different from why I work on OS projects. I want to do a bunch of work to solve a problem, and then make it so that no one ever has to solve that problem again, because everyone can benefit from my work.
The difference is that (for me, at least), the motivation is to multiply the work accomplished in the world, per unit of manpower I put into the work. Just doing work for free, while perhaps generous
Let's see if I understand (Score:2)
1. Fire many of your translators for being gay
2. Wind up with a backlog
3. Ask people you don't know or trust to do the work for free
4. ????
5. Profit!!
Anyone? (Score:2, Flamebait)
same open source principle that created Linux... (Score:2)
SOMEBODY SET UP US THE BOMB! (Score:2)
copyright (Score:2)
I can't wait to see the lawsuits against the US government for copyright infringement.
I don't feel like doing work tomorrow... (Score:2)
(I have to tidy up some code. One source file is 0.25MB of C++ and is basically one looong function. You'd love to help me wouldn't you?)
Tinfoil hat time! (Score:2)
Naw, I don't really believe it. But it does sound like there must be some sort of workable paranoid conspiracy thing here somewhere . . .
Will this do? (Score:3, Funny)
I am seeking a person of the utmost trustfulness, which I believe you to be the same, to resolve a most delicate matter that has come to light in recently translated documents. I am the personal Financial and Securities Manager to Mr Tariq Aziz of Baghdad City who deposited the sum of 20 million dollars specie in the Bank of Santa Maria et Commerciale, Lagos, for the purchase of tractor parts and chandeliers. By twisted fate my client is unavoidably detained in his domicile to entirely unforeseen social eventualities and has let it be known via said translation that he seeks you to act as intermediary in this matter through a personal bank account
Why these were released - the real story (Score:3, Informative)
This stash of documents (tens of thousands) had been in government possession for a long time. It was also indexed.
A writer (Stephen Hays [theweeklystandard.com]) at The Weekly Standard has been running a campaign to have them released to the public. At one time, the government was planning on destroying them.
Then, ( congresscritters [wwmt.com]) asked that they be released, and after some fussing, the release was agreed to.
The idea to release the documents onto the internet is brilliant. It is, in fact, the government recognizing the "Army of Davids" concept and using it. Since the Bush administration has demonstrated almost a total lack of ability to defend itself against even the most ludicrous of charges, this represents a rare instance where they have done something smart - put out the raw source material and let anyone on the internet translate and interpret it - with blogspace functioning as quality control if controversial documents are found (such as a couple already translated showing ties (fairly weak) between the Saddam regime and Al Qaeda.
One would hope that the internet and blogger community would welcome this for what it is: the US government recognizing the power of blogspace and the net, unorganized and ad hoc, to do useful information processing. Also, importantly, one would expect the openness shown here to be applauded - the "cursory readings" are hardly enough to ferret out all documents that might be either damaging or helpful to the administration.
Re:except... (Score:2)
Re:except... (Score:2)
Re:Out of Necessity (Score:2)
I'm not sure what this means, but it popped into my head when I read your post, maybe it's some sort of open source translation?
Re:Taxation (Score:2)
Well, for one, if someone opted to translate this, it is guaranteed that the overall cost (including their labor cost) would be less than if the government paid for it, as funding a beauracracy to get a task done is never cheaper than doing the task.
Secondarily, are you just an asshat? Allowing people to choose to help the country they live in can't possibly be a bad thing. Seriously, check at lea
Re:Taxation (Score:5, Insightful)
So, by your reasoning we should suspend activities such as:
- Big Brothers/Big Sisters
- Frats and VFW groups who do highway/litter cleanup
- Museum volunteers
- Reference desk volunteers at the local library
- Volunteers for the Red Cross and other relief orgs who are at least partially funded through tax dollars - but whose volunteers are not paid for their work
- Civics groups who put on things like Shakespeare in the Park
- Volunteer firefighters and EMTs
- College students who pay money to take their springbreak repairing the houses of dirt poor black americans in towns in the south where racism still lurks ominously. That is *double* taxation - not only have I paid to make the trip and buy the building materials, but I also spent weeks of my own time doing it. Why doesn't the gov't step in and pay me me! me!! to help these poverty-stricken people?
Maybe you got your degree from this guy [foxnews.com] so you don't understand that people who are paid by the gov't are paid out of your tax dollars. Very simple math. Gov't hires 10 more people, your taxes go to paying those ten extra people instead of whatever social program you fancy today. Give a little time as a volunteer (to do whatever, not nessecarily translate docs), and you save yourself a few dollars in taxes and get to have a little bit of civic pride. But it seems like you want us to all run around like a bunch of self-centered little dumbasses.
God forbid you should help an old lady cross the street without expecting a check for your "services".
Re:Taxation (Score:2)
Re:Ironic, because (Score:2, Informative)
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." -- From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John