Download-to-own Films Coming Soon 335
riflemann writes "CNN is reporting that Universal Pictures will soon launch a service whereby films can be downloaded legally to own, i.e. non time-limited digital downloads. Currently most legally downloaded movies are time limited. Buyers will also receive a DVD version in the post. Is the movie industry finally listening? And how will they define 'own?'"
wait, what? (Score:5, Funny)
...and the MPAA hasn't responded yet? It's taking the MPAA this long to respond to a dangerous "piracy" issue?
Re:wait, what? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:wait, what? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:wait, what? (Score:3, Informative)
It's a real shame because apart from this they are very good and have a huge range.
Re:wait, what? (Score:3, Interesting)
That's all right. We just use compatible technologies like P2P($0) and Usenet($15).
Arrr, shipmate
--Ng
Re:So when... (Score:5, Insightful)
Now. http://www.fsf.org/ [fsf.org]
40$ for Kong? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:40$ for Kong? (Score:5, Insightful)
"You see, Mr. Congressman? We tried the newfangled approach and it just doesn't work, you can't sell things on the Intarweb, so we're going back to our old-fashioned screw-the-consumer oligopoly. We know we can make money with that."
Re:40$ for Kong? (Score:4, Insightful)
It is bad enough the average parent can't afford to take a family of 3 - 4 to see a movie. Now they've gone and done this. Nimrods.
What next, do I have to go buy my nachos at a cinema before I can watch the movie at home? Screw DRM, and screw them for gouging. Just wait till all of the torrent networks start forwarding traffic directly to them to let them know just what they think of the idea. You thought the slashdot effect baked a CPU
Bad move on that thar MS network guys. Bad Move.
Jackasses.
Off my soapbox.
Re:40$ for Kong? (Score:5, Insightful)
Torrent networks don't "attack" things.. while it might be possible to add someone's IP to the list of tracked peers and generate bogus SYN traffic, it wouldn't accomplish much as Bittorrent clients are designed to initiate a connection less than once every 5 minutes to any given host or tracker.
Rewinding to the main topic, the only way to communicate to these media conglomerates isn't whining on
The day common people understand the democratic power of money, is the day democracy will start working for everyone.
Re:40$ for Kong? (Score:5, Interesting)
I disagree. You can buy their stuff and still put even more economic hurt on them than a simple boycott.
My strategy - buy used DVDs, buy them from rental stores for ~$5 a disc. Then lend them out to as many people as you can. I usually work at companies with mostly well-educated, well-paid employees. I lend my $5 used DVDs out to anyone who asks, after seeing another guy do it, I even keep an inventory of recent titles on my desk for easy borrowing.
These people are the studio's target audience - the single people have plenty of disposable income and the parents have kids which dispose of their income for them. When I lend out my $5 copy of Star Wars ep3 to 20 people over 3 months, that's at least 10 less people who would otherwise have paid money to rent or buy (I presume the other 10 just borrow it because its free, so no real loss of business opportunity there.)
For each $5, I am stealing (to use the MPAA/RIAA's favorite terminology) around $100 worth of business away from the studios and their associates (they've got 'revenue-sharing' deals with Blockbuster and Hollywood Video) and not only is it 100% legal, I also get to own the DVD of the movie too.
You might not think that just one guy can make a difference - that might be true, but if you check Blockbuster Video's financial status, you will see they are soo deep in the red that they will probably be bankrupt within 3 years, maybe sooner. I claim complete responsibility for that!
Re:40$ for Kong? (Score:2)
Yes. Yet another example of me too annoyed to be typing. I was grouping them together as 'ma bell'.
Re:40$ for Kong? (Score:2)
Re:40$ for Kong? (Score:2)
However, we get screwed in other ways. Take Lost for example. In the US you've got Season 1
Loaners (Score:2, Insightful)
Typically a factory-direct model like this is CHEAPER than going through the middle man. Why would we pay MORE for it?
Re:40$ for Kong? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:40$ for Kong? (Score:2)
Most blockbuster titles over here are priced at less than price they are quoting here in the stores. They are even cheaper if you buy from an online store and wait for them to be shipped. So at the release price point there is little to offer except a legal way to own a digital copy of the movie. There are people that will pay for this as players become available. Remember this is targeted at ordinary peopl
Re:40$ for Kong? (Score:2)
Re:40$ for Kong? (Score:2)
Re:40$ for Kong? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:40$ for Kong? (Score:2)
Re:40$ for Kong? (Score:3, Insightful)
Security Measures? (Score:5, Insightful)
What else will they prevent us from doing?
Re:Security Measures? (Score:2)
And why would someone want to send a huge movie via email anyway when there are more effivient ways to share?
Re:Security Measures? (Score:2)
More likely they will be "tagged" with a UID so it can be tracked back to you when found on P2P. As for emailing it, you aren't suggesting that an ISP email system can handle 4+ gigs of data in one file are you? Most of them don't do more than a meg or 2.
B.
Re:Security Measures? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, given how quickly every protection scheme that has come down the pike so far has been cracked, I'd have to say
Re:Security Measures? (Score:2)
The latest Windows Media Player 9 DRM has been out for a while and not been cracked.
Re:Security Measures? (Score:2)
Re:Security Measures? (Score:3, Interesting)
The files would also have to be within a reasonable size, the current 700MB standard would be perfect so I could burn it to a CD for later playback. Will t
Re:Security Measures? (Score:4, Insightful)
if i got a full length movie sent via e-mail to me and the mail server accepted it i would first fix the mail server then beat the person who sent it to me
Re:Security Measures? (Score:2)
Re:Security Measures? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Security Measures? (Score:4, Interesting)
I've said it before, I'll say it again. There's ALWAYS a way around some security measure, and as usual, it's been around for some time now. Anything in the DMCA covering pre-existing services that only now happen to circumvent distribution/content-protection?
Re:Security Measures? (Score:2)
Actually, yes. There is no "grandfather clause" in the DMCA. Just ask anyone that recieved DMCA takedown notices for linking to DeCSS.
B.
Re:Security Measures? (Score:2)
Viewing it. If you can view it you're a "pirate". Arrr!!
zones (Score:3, Interesting)
Own (Score:5, Interesting)
Ownership agreement:
You will not make backup copies of your files.
You will not have your files on more than one computer.
You may not share the files under any circumstance.
You may not playback the movie to more than 5 people.
Re:Own (Score:2)
OR
if you are making this up, how the hell did it get modded up so high?
Re:Own (Score:3, Funny)
OR
if you are making this up, how the hell did it get modded up so high?
The latter, and I have no idea.
Re:Own (Score:2, Insightful)
You will not have your files on more than one computer.
You may not share the files under any circumstance.
Standard DRM stuff. Wouldn't surprise me in the least.
You may not playback the movie to more than 5 people.
The usual wording is more like "For home viewing only. This film may not be rented or shown in public, clubs, schools, churches, prisons, etc"
Re:Own (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Own (Score:2)
Re:Own (Score:2)
That would suck for families of six.
One of them would have to sit in another room while everyone else enjoys the movie.
Still too much (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Still too much (Score:2)
Sounds good to me (Score:4, Insightful)
I predict at least two of those, probably 3. The second on the list (Windows only) is almost a certainty. Good luck to them, this sounds very good, but my experience tells me there are some major catches in there that we can't see yet.
Re:Sounds good to me (Score:3, Informative)
The article says they will give you a copy for use with portables.
Re:Sounds good to me (Score:2)
More expensive than normal DVD's. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:More expensive than normal DVD's. (Score:4, Interesting)
Which brings up an interesting point, how big of a problem are illegal downloads of movies. Personally I don't download them, netflix is way more efficient and I can watch on my TV which has a bigger screen, better sound and a nicer chair than my computer. This is nice for people that want to download, but I don't see the masses downloading movies to their computer on a regular basis like they do music. Music downloads are a totally different animal. You can have thousands of songs, put them on shuffle and put them in the background (just like xmms is doing fo me right now). Movies aren't as versatile that way. If I'm going to watch a movie, I'm going to sit down and pay attention to it. There's no point for me having many thousands of movie titles.
Re:More expensive than normal DVD's. (Score:4, Informative)
In what century are you living? Modern dvd-players/recorders play MPEG-4 content, for about 50EUR you can get one with all necessary outputs for you surround system. Movies can be downloaded in different qualities:
- 700Mb: 2channel mp3 with good enough picture quality
-1400Mb: multichannel ac3 with good enough picture quality
-4500Mb: stripped/recompressed DVD images in a good quality
>7000Mb: untouched versions of originals
"thousands of audio file.... Movies aren't as versatile that way. If I'm going to watch a movie, I'm going to sit down and pay attention to it. There's no point for me having many thousands of movie titles."
You might have noticed that diskspace is dirt cheap these days. The same for DVDs on a 50cent DVD one can fit 6 movies. But if you have for example an modded xbox hookup up to your TV and a network disk it's almost the same as your music files example. With ease one can have a TB of movie data at your disposal, all you have to do is sit down and pick something.
Re:More expensive than normal DVD's. (Score:2)
21st I think. Here in the states (I'm guessing you are not from the US since you priced in EUR) the average Joe that just rents DVDs isn't set up to easily download movies and write them to DVD the way you describe. I'm not disagreeing that downloading is slick, especially the way you describe, but there just isn't consumer domand for it. I believe the percentage of people that will go through the additional steps to download illegal movies and watch them as you appearan
Re:More expensive than normal DVD's. (Score:2)
Download size is 1 GB typically, it takes between an hour and two hours to download. You can output to your TV if you so desire, and resolution looks good enough that it probably would look fine on most TVs.
LetterRip
Re:More expensive than normal DVD's. (Score:5, Funny)
Has potential, for sure... (Score:4, Insightful)
This service could really be huge if they implemented something vaguely similar to FairPlay in the sense that you can put it on a few other computers, and instead of putting it on your iPod, you could have a 30 day "timeout" -- if you don't connect to the internet in 30 days and reauthenticate your DRM'ed movie, you can't play it. This way it'll still work if you go on vacation or whatnot.
The big issue here is we're talking about a movie -- a multi-million dollar venue, corporations don't lightly toss around the idea of letting you put a $500 million production on five other computers for nothing. Hopefully this is a step in the right direction and not just some kind of sick ploy, like if they load it with horrible DRM that eats your soul and then afterwards (when the service rightfully bombs) they just say "eh, there's no market for this kind of service" and never try again. Anyway here's hoping.
Re:Has potential, for sure... (Score:2)
Myself, I would like to see BSG available like this via some sort of subscription, ie I pay lets say $50-60, and I can download the episodes each week as it's released, and at the DVD release points, they send me the boxed set.
Re:Has potential, for sure... (Score:2)
Huh? They currently sell DVDs which can be played on an unlimited number of computers. DVDs are encrypted sure, but it's been cracked, and people can rip and re-encode DVDs at the drop of a hat. You don't see the studios suddenly stopping distributing DVDs because of the piracy risk, do you?
Non
Restricted Access (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Restricted Access (Score:2)
Besides, indie music and films are much better, so it's not like I've been missing much.
No, it's really not. The vast majority of it is much, much worse. But there's a lot more of it, so the odds are good if you look hard enough you will find something that is better - or at least something that you like more.
(Very long essay on current and classical ways of paying for entertainment and art deleted. It's been said more concisely, and probably better, by way too many others.)
Er, right. In summary, everyo
Re:Restricted Access (Score:2)
Re:Restricted Access (Score:5, Interesting)
It's kind of sad (from the aspect that Hollywood makes lots of crap), but many oscar winners and oscar nominees start out as indie films. There are many more that never make the mainstream distribution channels and are only shown in 'art houses'. Just keep in mind, indie doesn't mean good either. Many of the best written movies are indies, but many of the worst movies I've seen are also independent.
$35 each, sign me up! (Score:4, Insightful)
The media companies look at every new format as an opportunity to raise prices, even when the cost of manufacturing and distribution drops significantly.
Re:$35 each, sign me up! (Score:2)
Though it's more then the Amazon.co.uk price for Kong.
Re:$35 each, sign me up! (Score:2)
If they were to say you can download a copy - even if they provided their own app to burn to DVD - and that's it for, say, 10 quid then this
Re:$35 each, sign me up! (Score:3, Informative)
They don't realize it because it's not true. People continue to buy what they want at a price that is acceptable to them. If it's not acceptable, why are they buying? It isn't as though movies or music are essential goods that people need to survive. Just because you personally think something is overpriced does not make it price gouging.
Re:$35 each, sign me up! (Score:2)
Re:$35 each, sign me up! (Score:2)
Go back and add back in the revenue from those distribution streams you left out and then we'll talk...
B.
Re:$35 each, sign me up! (Score:2)
Their FAQ is funny (Score:5, Funny)
Heh, from their FAQ [lovefilm.com]:
Broadband internet connection recommended.
+9000, Duh
Re:Their FAQ is funny (Score:2)
Re:Their FAQ is funny (Score:2)
my anal-orgy (Score:2, Insightful)
I OWN a car, I can lend it to anyone I please and I can drive it on all public roads in my country. Yes there are limitations, I can only accomodate as many people as the law allows. But if I am not allowed to lend it to anyone i like, I dont own it. So no, this does not actually satisfy my definition of OWN
No thanks (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:No thanks (Score:2)
The prime market for Netflix and download services is middle class and suburban. Bandwith is cheap, postage is cheap.
Instant gratification isn't worth a weekend run into town.
Sorry, that costs too much. (Score:2)
Ahhh, the paradox of greed. Others have pointed out that the download service costs more than the DVD, yet it will save the big publishers money. Oh yeah, once enough people are using DRM'd downloads, the DVD "hole" and your local store will be closed. Sorry, but you don't have a choice about it.
Did you mention competing movie makers? The MPAA has a plan for them too. First up is all digital
Re:Sorry, that costs too much. (Score:2)
For the time being, it's simply more convenient to go a nearby video store than to wait for a movie to download to your system.
First movie (Score:4, Funny)
Seriously, I hope they pay me to download this crap... I know it sure isn't worth my money, or even watching for free, for that matter
Interesting, but... (Score:2)
Betting On (Score:2, Insightful)
You can own from movielink for $8.99 (Score:2)
May as well wait for the mail (Score:3, Insightful)
Your feeble marketing skills are no match for the power of the Postal Service! You will pay the price for your lack of vision!
I'm serious about that lack of vision thing. I give them kudos for at least trying, but trying in a way that is bound to fail isn't innovation - it is just plain stupid.
On Apple and iTunes...music and film (Score:5, Insightful)
The service proposed in the article is a perfect example of what we would get if the music industry got their way with iTunes music pricing. The labels are insisting they be allowed to charge more for newer, and more popular music (driving the prices of digital content closer to that of physical media) while offering "lower" prices for older content (Steve Jobs is resisting the increases). The Universal movie service will charge you $35 for new releases, and offer an "incredible" 50% discount on older films, which brings the price for the back catalog down to what you would pay for a physical DVD.
Economics dictates that they can charge whatever the market will bear, but I think the past few years has proven that the market simply will not bear what the conglomerates are demanding. They have this fantasy that if online stores offer the same products that they aren't selling enough of in brick-and-mortar stores at the same, or a higher price than the brick-and-mortar stores, that sales will increase.
The prevalence of file sharing had a lot to do with the convenience, but it was also much more a direct rebellion against the pricing schemes that the cartels had shoved down our throats for decades. iTunes killed two birds with one stone and took away the incredible premium they were demanding in retail stores, and adopted the convenience of the file sharing networks. Sales rebounded, and now they feel as if their original methodology was somehow correct and they can begin maximizing their profits by demanding more money for less product.
They are unable to accept the notion that they have been wrong all of these years, and are terrified that Apple is increasingly making them irrelevant in the marketplace. They are not producing any physical product, the overhead and media itself is being paid for out of Apple's tiny cut (they've only recently passed break-even on the store) and they are collecting a lionshare of the proceeds for doing nothing but allowing Apple to reproduce the content they did not make. It's a zero-risk, zero-investment game with high returns for them and them alone. With fewer bands (even established ones) getting any attention from the marketing departments at major labels, the day is coming when they will be cut out of the arrangement altogether and bands upload their music on their own (as they can do right now when they lack a big-label contract prohibiting such things). If you're not getting any airplay, the only thing you need is GarageBand, a tour promoter and an iTunes merchant account. The 90% take the labels claim on each sale, and the indentured servitude they put bands in for the ridiculous expenses they charge to each group just isn't getting anyone but a few main artists any kind of return.
The film studios are well-aware of the trap the music labels walked into, and want to ensure that any movie service has no room in it for the individual copyright holder and is arranged so if the movie studios are the only source for content, they get a monthly cut and there is no ability for individuals to upload their own films, as there is no way for them to tap into the monthly revenue stream going back to Hollywood.
Re:On Apple and iTunes...music and film (Score:2)
Cause a $10 album off iTunes isn't going to be more than 100MB... whereas a $10 movie is going to be at least 3~4 times as big (assuming it's formatted for the video iPod).
That's a lot more bandwidth-per-dollar for Apple to be spending.
Re:On Apple and iTunes...music and film (Score:2)
Re:On Apple and iTunes...music and film (Score:3, Informative)
Doing a quick bit of math, 4 billion bytes would take about 21000 seconds to send over a T1. You could do that 123 times in a 30-day month, earning $1230. As long as Apple can get bandwidth for less that $1230 per T1-equivalent, that part pays for itself.
I know there are plenty of other costs, but I don't think that the cost of actu
iTunes beat them to it (Score:2)
Granted, the movie is still being shown on Disney Channel now and then, but it's a bit of a big deal in that this is being offered a couple of months ahead of the DVD release, and for about half the price.
SpaceChannel.TV is doing this too (Score:2, Interesting)
SpaceChannel.TV will be doing this too. We're rolling out next week a download site (specific to the Space Entertainment, Space Sports, and Science Fiction market) where our programs may be purchased to own. AND -- 6 to 12 months later you'll be able to RESELL your copy through our site. Videos will be encrypted, and you'll have to be online for just a few seconds for our custom video player to grab the decryption key -- after a few seconds you can go offline and continue watching the video.
We're not
too expensive (Score:2, Interesting)
Are they nuts? (Score:4, Insightful)
I suspect their argument will go something like this: "See, nobody is buying them. Selling online doesn't work because everyone is pirating it." When I saw the headline I was surprised and optimistic, but then I read the fine print and it all made perfect sense.
Oh well, the MPAA and RIAA are just putting themselves out of business. Too bad for them.
Re:Are they nuts? (Score:2)
Go ask iTunes users.
TWW
Set it equal to price of movie ticket and I'm in (Score:2, Insightful)
mind paying $8 for a movie that I can watch in comfort at home with my own food.
I think they could really make it big. But at $30 it's a no brainer...no one would use it
iTunes became big because it's fair priced. $1 is not that much and you feel good about not pirating.
Would you copy a car? Anti MPAA message. (Score:4, Funny)
Second Woman: Nice Purse!
Cut to a parking lot with a man getting out of his 1978 Monte Carlo. Another man sees him and approaches. Things are dirty, dark and gloomy.
Second Man: Nice car!
Flash Words: Would you copy a car? Would you copy a purse? Cut back to parking lot, things are looking brighter.
First Man: You really like it?
Second Man: Yeah, it rocks. Can I have one?
First Man: Sure, dude, it won't cost me much.
First Man takes his keys out of his pocket, pushes a button and makes a second car appear. Scene is now full color.
Flash Words: Of course you would copy a car if you could!
Cut to Street, things are looking brighter here too.
First Woman: I've got lots of these, have one.
First Woman reaches into her purse and pulls out an identical purse.
Second Woman: Cool, thanks a lot.
Both make big smiles at each other.
Flash Words: Sharing Is Good!
Cut back to parking lot. The second car shimmers oddly.
Second Man: Wow, thanks, that's really cool but it's not quite like the first one. What's up?
First Man: Oh, my car has DRM. I can only make five copies and the copies are not perfect. In fact, my own car has a limited life and I have to constantly pay to enjoy it. Sometimes it does not work at all.
Second Man: Bummer, dude, you got ripped off. Thanks anyway.
Run Words: You would not put up with restrictions on your car, would you?
Flash Words Separately: -DRM- -IS- -WRONG-
End with Words: Don't be owned. Share your culture.
Re:Would you copy a car? Anti MPAA message. (Score:3, Interesting)
That's the law. Like it or not. The same law GPL and BSD is founded on.
Re:Would you copy a car? Anti MPAA message. (Score:3, Insightful)
It of course showed no signs of that on the show floor.
Still not priced right... (Score:3, Insightful)
What do I own? For both music or video it averages about $5 a disc (on sale, ebay, cdbaby, Costco...)
Priced more than that? I somehow find other distractions to fill the time.
For me (and I am in the uber-top % of wage earners, per this site [globalrichlist.com]) it just isn't worth more than about $2-3 for a whole CD of music or $4-5 for a DVD. For others it might be less - but it is worth something. Downloading stuff for "free" isn't free - it takes time, burning it to discs cost money, and hey, you have evidence of a felony laying around now... who needs that?
I do have an iPod - But I have spent $0 at iTunes. Why? Because CDEX and my own Discs work just fine, thank you.
All my CDs and DVDs are from eBay, Costco, the "bargin bin" at Circuit City, etc. Full-retail just doesn't cut it. Even the annoying "join-now-get-X-discs-free" clubs work out to about $6/disc if you join, do the minimum, and quit.
Whatever happened to the concept of "making more profit on volume?" Media companies are missing out on a lot of sales, IMO, with their current pricing strategy.
While broke kids will always download stuff "for free", regular honest folks will buy tons of stuff at "Wal-Mart" prices - or not at all, when it comes to non-essential items like music and videos.
Heres how they will define own (Score:2, Funny)
Own: When the DRM rootkit is installed on your computer, you just got "pwned".
The UK price (Score:4, Interesting)
Of course, there's no way in hell I would ever pay that much for a DVD - supermarkets generally discount new releases to around £14, and online retailers like Play.com often go even lower. But somebody must be paying full whack for DVDs, otherwise places like HMV that do charge the full RRP would be in trouble...
Reading TFA, the deal is that with this new service you get a large (presumably DRMed-to-the-hilt) file for use on a computer, a small copy for use on mobile devices... and an actual physical DVD. So what they're saying is "If we give you a digital backup of the physical DVD, that's fine. If you make a digital backup, you're a filthy pirate!"
Re:The UK price (Score:3, Insightful)
If I can get the original media for, as you point out, £14 rather than £20, watch it, and if I so desire, trade it, sell it on, etc. I can then rip and transcode it, and play it on the device of my choice. Very useful for my work laptop, which is from the stone age and has no DVD-ROM.
Or I can download it for *more money*. And get a complimentary physical backup of the DRM-ised file, which I cannot trade or sell on.
They are either not thinking this through at all, or t
Re:No emailing? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:No emailing? (Score:2)