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60% Of Windows Vista Code To Be Rewritten

CmdrTaco posted more than 8 years ago | from the do-not-collect-two-hundred-dollars dept.

662

Alien54 writes "Up to 60% of the code in the new consumer version of Microsoft new Vista operating system is set to be rewritten as the Company "scrambles" to fix internal problems, according to this report. In an effort to meet a deadline of the 2007 CES show in Las Vegas Microsoft has pulled programmers from the highly succesful Xbox team to help resolve many problems associated with entertainment and media centre functionality inside the OS. Much more at the link."

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662 comments

Please Don't Interpret this Incorrectly (5, Insightful)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987861)

Ok, we all know how the majority of Slashdot feels about Microsoft. It's not a positive feeling. I myself don't like them.

But please don't use this 60% figure as proof that Vista will suck. Because it doesn't necessarily mean that.

Once again, we have the Slashdot spin to deal with:
Up to 60% of the code in the new consumer version of Microsoft new Vista operating system is set to be rewritten as the Company "scrambles" to fix internal problems, according to this report.
Scrambling to fix problems? If they're saying their release date is sometime in 2007, I don't think they need to scramble. They actually seem pretty lax about when this is going to be released. Hell, I heard about Longhorn years ago and they sure haven't been "scrambling" to do anything with that. Stop making it sound like Microsoft is running around with their heads cut off. Because I highly doubt it.

I interpret this to mean that Microsoft is stepping up to the plate and taking responsibility. They have identified so many problems that it needs major revision and good for them.

Do you remember Windows 98, first edition? Do remember how much better second edition was? I do. Why the hell they didn't just wait on the release is simple. Money.

They could release Vista prematurely but now we wait until 2007. And if you hate Windows, like I do, why do you care? We're still going to be using Linux anyways.

So please, look at this move as a gesture to try and release a quality product and not slop out some POS OS that they are only releasing for the sake of income.

Re:Please Don't Interpret this Incorrectly (0, Troll)

yogkarma (635120) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987912)

This is the time when Microsoft should make Visa an Open Source, lets see who come first OpenSource Vista or MS-Vista. Long Live Logic.

Re:Please Don't Interpret this Incorrectly (3, Funny)

DebianDog (472284) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987917)

Heck... let's make it 95% to 100% and I will consider going back to Windows!

Re:Please Don't Interpret this Incorrectly (5, Insightful)

spaztik (917859) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987935)

I'd rather they wait and get it right before releasing Vista rather than going through the excruciating process of installing security updates/service packs/second editions on a hastily released product. Or even better yet, having to go out and spend money on security software to fix the holes that shouldn't exist in the first place. Please get this one right Microsoft.

The Mythical Man Month. (5, Insightful)

khasim (1285) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987945)

A good book and it discusses how adding MORE programmers to a task means the project will take LONGER to complete.

So, adding more programmers to a late project, and not slipping the date even more to account for them, [b]probably[/b] means that the final result [b]will[/b] suck.

Re:The Mythical Man Month. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14988117)

Does that mean that taking programmers away from a project will not take less time to complete?

Re:Please Don't Interpret this Incorrectly (5, Insightful)

TheRealBurKaZoiD (920500) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987959)

I agree with you mostly, but I swear I remember reading an article a couple of years ago where Allchin (sp?) commented that Vista was a from-scratch complete re-write of the OS, that they didn't port anything over. Of course I could be mistaken, but it just sounds really weird to remember that, and now the talk of a major re-write. 10%, 25%, 50%; does it really matter how much of a re-write it is? At 50+ million lines of code that's no small re-write. And I assume everyone here on /. has at the very least worked on small to medium-sized project development teams. You all know the difficulties and politics in teams of that size. Can you imagine the cluster-fuck in coordinating development using literally hundreds and hundreds of programmer?

Personally, I really don't care when it comes out. I waited until sp2 to jump on the xp bandwagon anyway, and I typically wait a couple of years before adopting a new operating system, just to let the bugs shake out.

Re:Please Don't Interpret this Incorrectly (3, Insightful)

EggyToast (858951) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988104)

To me, it means that Allchin was probably bending the truth a bit for PR reasons. Given how many different departments and groups there are within Microsoft, I'm sure there have been numerous instances of someone saying "we can't rewrite that from scratch; we'd have to start everything we're working on over from scratch too!" And so they port a little code here, a little code there... a big piece of code here, a bigger piece of code there...

Given what we know is in Vista, it doesn't make much sense for the entirety to be rewritten. Why would they choose to recode the Registry and then follow through on actually including it? Similarly, look how many things are being backported to XP, and easily at that -- that doesn't sound like Vista is "all new" to me. But it appears that by NOT doing what Allchin said they were going to do, they now get to "scramble" and rewrite tons of code. I'm sure that's significantly less efficient than simply starting from scratch in the first place.

Re:Please Don't Interpret this Incorrectly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14987966)

Scrambling to fix problems? If they're saying their release date is sometime in 2007, I don't think they need to scramble.

You have never delevoped software professionaly, have you? If so, you wouldn't make such a completely ignorant statement. If you don't think that rewriting 60% of an OS (and I'm not saying the 60% figure is true, but that's what under discussion) and getting it out the door in one year is scrambling, then you just don't get it.

Re:Please Don't Interpret this Incorrectly (3, Insightful)

Alranor (472986) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987968)

Once again, we have the Slashdot spin to deal with:

        Up to 60% of the code in the new consumer version of Microsoft new Vista operating system is set to be rewritten as the Company "scrambles" to fix internal problems, according to this report.


How exactly is that comment "Slashdot spin" when it's the first line of the article linked to?

Re:Please Don't Interpret this Incorrectly (0)

didde (685567) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987983)


Dang, where are those modpoints when you need'em?

You tell it like it is...

Interpret this (1)

iggymanz (596061) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987994)

You don't work on large software projects? To write To rewrite MORE than HALF of an OS with tens of millions of lines of code in a year!!!!??????? can't be done, whatever comes out of this will be a cobbled together train wreck.

Re:Please Don't Interpret this Incorrectly (4, Insightful)

bperkins (12056) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987995)

I don't think they need to scramble.

Are you kidding?

Let's put aside the possibity that the 60% figure is probably total hogwash, because that's not what you're arguing.

Rewriting over half the code of a project that you've spent years working on and are supposed to release in about a year is a desperate situation. It's not possible to acomplish. If they said they had to rewrite 10% of the code, I'd say they were in a bad situation, since that last 10% of the code often takes the most time.

I don't believe the 60% figure, because if it were true, the project leaders would be looking for new jobs already.

Re:Please Don't Interpret this Incorrectly (2, Insightful)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988079)

the article mentioned a total restruture of the windows division; combine that with any significant re-write of even part of something as complicated as an OS, and it is quite clear Microsoft has fooed themselves in the bazz with a bar. Missing the Christmas 2006 season alone is estimated to cost hardware manufacturers over 4 billion US dollars. this is catastrophic.

As the fantastic 4 would say.... (1)

BillGod (639198) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988087)

FLAME ON

Re:Please Don't Interpret this Incorrectly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14988101)

eldavojohn

Did you read the article? That is the title of the original article. This is in no way a "slashdot spin" The entire post is quoted from the page it references.

60%? (5, Insightful)

(1+-sqrt(5))*(2**-1) (868173) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987864)

I've scanned TFA an ungodly three times: “60%” occurs in the title and summary, but nowhere else; can anyone divine its provenance? I'd wager it hails from the statistical nether-æther of sensationalist journalism.

That said, I think there's trouble brewing for any company that chants “innovation” like some apotropaïc mantra: you have it or you don't (and it tends to go hand in hand with testosterone).

Come on (5, Funny)

Serapth (643581) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987900)

When has Smarthouse.com.au steered you wrong in the past????

Seriously, some of the shit that gets posted on Slashdot is the geek equivelant of a tabloid.

Re:Come on (5, Funny)

general_re (8883) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987941)

When has Smarthouse.com.au steered you wrong in the past????

Never. Not one single time. Who the fuck is smarthouse.com.au?

Re:60%? (1)

Loether (769074) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987928)

The first paragraph. It's bolded. >Up to 60% of the code in the new consumer version of Microsoft new Vista operating system is set to be rewritten as the Company "scrambles" to fix internal problems a Microsoft insider has confirmed to SHN. Although I tend to agree with your sentiment.

Re:60%? (1)

shmlco (594907) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987974)

Not only that, but the tense "to be" implies that they have yet to rerwrite 60% of the code.

Frankly, I don't believe it. I might believe that by the time it ships 60% of the code will have been rewritten, but I don't believe they've been sitting on their hands doing nothing for the past several years.

Re:60%? (3, Insightful)

gowen (141411) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988045)

Don't forget that "up to 60%" is a synonym for "less than 60%". And a very useful synonym it is, especially when
a) a journalist wishes to appear to more knowledgeable than they are.
b) they want to create a lot of page impressions / ad revenue.

Doing the right thing? (2)

Armando_Mcgillicutty (773718) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987868)

Maybe instead of rushing the product out the door full of bugs, it sounds like they might be taking their time and getting it right for once.

One can only hope.

Perhaps... (3, Insightful)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988026)

But to be worrying about 60% of the code in a one year timeframe, in light of the 10's of millions of lines of code...

If they're actually doing this (I've my doubts...), then Vista won't be out when they say it will be- it'll be delayed by another 2 or so years like Windows 95 ended up being (95 was started approximately 4 years earlier and was only supposed to take a year, year and a half to do- the delays were so bad that the press was making all blow and no go jokes with respect to the codename for the product, "Chicago".).

Wow! 60%??!! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14987872)

That's a lot of GoTo statements!!!

Re:Wow! 60%??!! (5, Funny)

birder (61402) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988049)

That's what they get for giving it to their "goto guy".

hmm (-1, Offtopic)

MikeB0Lton (962403) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987874)

I really want first post. Maybe today is my day?

NOPE! (-1, Troll)

djward (251728) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987940)

HeH yOUz FAILeZ IT!

HA-Ha!

Apple, "MacOS W", & the real reason for the de (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14987877)

The real reason for the delay is an event that occurred this Tuesday, which was written up by an Apple Insider [macrumors.com] in the famous MacRumors forums. I quote the post below in full. My comments are at the end.

The board meeting

So it's Tuesday morning at Apple. The boardroom is having another meeting about the future of the Macintosh. They're perusing the feedback over the unofficial port of Windows to the Mac, and considering the consequences. There's a whole bunch of things on the agenda. OS development is hard, and it's expensive. Their competitors, Sony and Lenevo, doesn't need to do it, and they're doing pretty well all in all. Plus, there's the whole break up plan. When Apple separates into Apple Macintosh Inc and iTunes Corp, how attractive will Apple Macintosh be as a take-over target? The whole move to Intel will be for naught if it hasn't made Dell and friends just a little more excited and comfortable they could fit the Macintosh into their lines.

Apple has some little development projects on the boil and has for some time. To begin with, it's pretty much completely reimplemented the Carbon APIs under Windows. Indeed, that's how iTunes and Quicktime are implemented. But, interestingly, so are the Cocoa APIs. They're all there, Apple never stopped developing them, even after it nixed WebObjects for that platform. It's also in need of certain features that would help it with the future. Apple has no "managed code" environment - it supported Java to a certain extent, but Cocoa never was a perfect fit for that. Apple's progress with .NET, unofficially, under Windows and OS X, is coming along surprisingly well.

As time has gone on, the notion of switching to Windows as the base platform really has gotten more and more plausable. There are still roadblocks, Apple needs Microsoft to provide them with a little more customizability of the UI. A switch to Windows without providing the essential Macintosh experience just wouldn't do. But, well, .NET, and Aero, are Microsoft's attempts to break with the past. Perhaps an OS built upon these APIs could, with Microsoft's help, look entirely like a Mac environment - with the right code, obviously. You don't want a Dell user flipping a registry switch and getting a Mac.

It's clear that whatever happens, OS X is doomed. Postings by MacRumors alumni arguing that the porting of Windows to the Mac spells disaster are read out, and largely agreed with. But the question then is - does Apple continue to pour money into OS X, or could Gates and Ballmer be ameanable to making the modifications needed to make Windows Vista the next Macintosh OS?

The phone call

Jobs picks up the phone and calls Gates. There's a brief discussion, and then the phone's put down. A few minutes later, the phone rings. It's Ballmer, Gates, and Allchin.

"We think we can do it, Steve" says Bill Gates. "I mean, this is a major thing for us. It's a coup, and I know you know we're thinking it. So we're going to help in any way we can."

Allchin interjects: "Funnily enough, from our end, the code's largely there. We need a bit more time. WinFS needs some work - we'd put it on hold, but if you're going to want Spotlight on this OS, we'll need to finish it. Sticking menus at the top of the screen and reordering them... that's easy stuff. We'd appreciate it if you ported your own Dock and Finder, you can keep that proprietary if you want."

Jobs smiles. "That's perfect for us. Means we keep control over the so-called Macintosh experience. That's really the only reason we've stuck with our own operating systems for so long."

Ballmer speaks next. "Well, I'm looking at the timings, we can probably get things to you in a service pack for Vista, perhaps in April or May of 2007?"

"January", says Jobs. "It's got to be January. I want to go to MacWorld, and announce a new operating system, Mac OS W, that brings the best of the Mac, and the best of Microsoft. And I want to tell people "It's shipping today.", it's important, for our credibility and everything."

There's silence on the other end. Allchin chirps up next.

"Y'know. Y'know, it really is possible. Let's forget about the November release date. Let's go full steam ahead, and time the release for January. An early release is just going to trip us up."

"I have to agree with Jim there", says Gates. "It's not going to be pretty, but we can do this if we delay the OS. Especially if a lot of this stuff's done, or you're going to do it, and all we have to do is add a few missing features like WinFS. About time we implemented that anyway."

Ballmer sighs. "Ok Steve. Our people will talk to your people. January it is. I'm going to announce the delay right now, no use keeping this a secret. The delay, that is."

The conversation continues constructively, and the phone is hung up.

"They're good people, at Microsoft, I mean" says Jobs. There are nods and mutters of agreement from the others present. "I think this is a great partnership. It's going to be great for Apple. Great for our customers, I think. No more incompabilities. Things are going to "just work". Strange, somehow, that Microsoft would be giving us the last piece to make the Macintosh the computer for the rest of us."

I don't need to say why Microsoft is being coy about their reasons, and this is also why they're proposing significant "rewrites" to Vista. What we're actually seeing is the restructuring of .NET's Aero interfaces to fit more control over the GUI (Java SWING/AWT style) for outside customization, and work on overhauling the stillborn WinFS project.

We're also going to see announcements of restructuring over the next few days as Microsoft reorganizes the Windows platform group so that those working on specific Apple related projects can get exactly what they need without necessarily blowing the cover off the whole project.

These are exciting times. There aren't many reasons Microsoft would go back for a rewrite like this - Vista beta testers will tell you that Windows Vista was pretty close to production ready as it was. It's a major coup for Microsoft that Apple's choosing to switch like this.

Re:Apple, "MacOS W", & the real reason for the (5, Funny)

Mr Z (6791) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987987)

Darn it, I read this post without my tinfoil accessories. [lessemf.com]

--Joe

Re:Apple, "MacOS W", & the real reason for the (4, Funny)

Zontar_Thing_From_Ve (949321) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988039)

Let's see... if true, this would mean that consumers would get a double benefit - they would pay MORE for an Apple PC than a non-Apple PC AND (drumroll, please!) they would get to use "quality" Microsoft software on this PC!

If true, let me tell you what over 90% of the consumers out there would say. These are the people who are not Apple fanboys. "You seriously expect me to pay MORE for an Apple PC than a non-Apple PC just to run Windows?!? When both PCs will run it? Are you out of your freakin' mind?!?" And Apple soon joins DEC in the computer afterlife.

Re: "MacOS W", & the real reason for delay (1)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988076)

Yeah, it's not like Lenovo/IBM or Sony are big players in the Wintel world. ;-)

People will spend more on what they perceive as a high quality brand, especially if the machines have what's considered superior design, be that functional, aesthetic, or a combination of both. Truth be told, Apple could probably be more successful than most at selling premium Wintel boxes. I'd guess they'd throw Sony out of the market.

Re:Apple, "MacOS W", & the real reason for the (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14988096)

& then Jobs reaches under the desk and pulls out a minigun. He jumps on the desk and sprays the boardroom with thousands of bullets, laughing manically. An SWAT team storm the building and wrestle Jobs to the ground. Then you woke up.

HAHAHAHA.. (2)

3.5 stripes (578410) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988116)

Someone, somewhere is laughing at you :D

Great troll though.

Re:Apple, "MacOS W", & the real reason for the (2, Insightful)

Kirth (183) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988118)

They've been on drugs, were they? If anything, Microsoft is scrambling to keep up with MacOS X; and not the other way round. Besides; who would trade in his shiny ferrari for a trabant?

60%? (1)

The Mysterious X (903554) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987890)

I was under the impression that Vista had already been totally re-written, back last year some time because the XP code base was too "messy". Is 60% perhaps the amount of code that has already been re-coded?

Third Rule of Software Development (5, Funny)

Error27 (100234) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987893)

Always add gaming programmers late in the project and to improve security and reliability.

Re:Third Rule of Software Development (2, Funny)

Linker3000 (626634) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988036)

"Looks like you are writing a letter- man, that's sooo boring - hows about I fire up Duke Nuken Forever and we play one on one for a while?"

Re:Third Rule of Software Development (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988085)

Well, it is well know in the industry that game programmers are used to work 27 hours a day at minimum wages. I mean, it is even better than outsourcing!

Seriously, when I was jounger I always dreamed of being a game developer, I used to wander in gamedev.net and make cool opengl demos but seeing how underpriced are game programmers and the difficulty to get into the industry (requiring 10 published titles to get into a company?) I am opting to find a real work =o)

Re:Third Rule of Software Development (5, Funny)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988143)

Always add gaming programmers late in the project and to improve security and reliability.

Of course. For example, the programmers of FPS games are likely good at writing AI which fights against the user. Just the thing you need for a secure OS, because you know, the biggest security problem often sits in front of the screen.

manpower (3, Insightful)

StarvingSE (875139) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987896)

In an effort to meet a deadline of the 2007 CES show in Las Vegas Microsoft has pulled programmers from the highly succesful Xbox team to help resolve many problems associated with entertainment and media centre functionality inside the OS.

"Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later." - Fred Brooks, The Mythical Man-Month

work dammed! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14987903)

in Soviet Redmont.. ohh wait

What is it, Bash Microsoft Day at the press core? (4, Funny)

soren42 (700305) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987913)

Wow, does it suck to be Microsoft today... just look at the homepage of Slashdot:


The hits just keep coming... I'm no Microsoft supporter, but that's a lot of bad PR for any company in one day - makes you feel sorry for them.

I wonder if all this negative press will affect their stock price [yahoo.com] in trading today. (Makes you feel sorry for their shareholders!)

Re:What is it, Bash Microsoft Day at the press cor (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14987942)

No, it's a normal day at Slashdot.
Nothing to see here, move along.

Re:What is it, Bash Microsoft Day at the press cor (1)

snib (911978) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987985)

Why was the title of this article "Too" when it was posted before the Windows delay articles???

Because of this [slashdot.org] .

Re:What is it, Bash Microsoft Day@the press core? (1)

soren42 (700305) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988050)

Oh. Thanks! :) That was really bugging me. (Short attention span, you know... articles from three days ago are ancient history!)

No it is not. Except for you maybe. (1)

hadj (926126) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987997)

This is a company and thus a risk game. I bet 99% of their customers don't read IT-news. Seldom has Microsoft become a negative topic in the mainstream media.

Re:What is it, Bash Microsoft Day at the press cor (1)

paeanblack (191171) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988044)

I wonder if all this negative press will affect their stock price [yahoo.com] in trading today. (Makes you feel sorry for their shareholders!)

1) Shareholders don't give a shit about daily price fluctuations. Stock traders do.

2) All this negative press? Yeah, Slashdot really is a cornerstone of the financial world. Especially regarding Microsoft, the insightful, objective, detailed, timely, and accurately predictive nature of Slashdot articles is known worldwide. On the other hand, this could just be a fark in a hurricane...I'm not sure.

Re:What is it, Bash Microsoft Day at the press cor (1)

specialbrad (884393) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988072)

Yeah, all those slashdot readers that own microsoft shares will surely be selling thier shares now, since they just found out the company isn't that great today.

Re:What is it, Bash Microsoft Day at the press cor (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14988131)

Damn, there goes my 401k!!

Re:What is it, Bash Microsoft Day at the press cor (1)

Half a dent (952274) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988136)

Every day is a bash Microsoft day at Slashdot! But then sadly it is as easy clubing baby seals.

classic managment mistake (4, Funny)

geekoid (135745) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987916)

When you run into a large issue, you don't pull people off another project to help.

It's like getting 3 women pregnant so you can have a baby in 3 months.

You need to define your new schedule and stick to that. otherwise you end up with a slower schedule and a different set of bugs.

Re:classic managment mistake (1)

GReaToaK_2000 (217386) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988021)

"It's like getting 3 women pregnant so you can have a baby in 3 months."

Your analogy is Freaking HILARIOUS!!! I love it!!! OMG ROFLOL!!!

Oh sigh, Thank you... I totally agree with you, putting more people into the mix just means more chaos and less productivity.

~G

Re:classic managment mistake (1)

dJOEK (66178) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988091)

actually, Seymour Cray said something like that much earlier already;
credit where credit is due

Re:classic managment mistake (2, Informative)

dJOEK (66178) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988138)

Spank me, that was of course Wernher von Braun:
"Crash programs fail because they are based on theory that, with nine women pregnant, you can get a baby a month. "

Re:classic managment mistake (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14988035)

Are you implying that my 9-woman beo-womb cluster is infeasible?

LIAR!

Baby-making WILL be revolutionized!

Re:classic managment mistake (1)

Sqwubbsy (723014) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988041)

Get 3 women pregnant? Where do I sign up?

Oh, and uh, are they HOTTTT?!?!?

Re:classic managment mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14988065)

BROOKE'S FIRST LAW

Adding more engineers to a late project just makes it later.

Re:classic managment mistake (2, Interesting)

jtwJGuevara (749094) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988093)

"Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later." --Frederick Brooks

slashdot: (0, Redundant)

skydude_20 (307538) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987918)

..if it's not a google story, it must be a microsoft story.

Re:slashdot: (1)

CockMonster (886033) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988095)

too true. don't forget the occasional "FireFox changes toolbar colour" stories.

Am I the only one...? (4, Interesting)

BitterOak (537666) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987923)

Microsoft has pulled programmers from the highly succesful Xbox team to help resolve many problems associated with entertainment and media centre functionality inside the OS.

Am I the only one who thinks that things like media and entertainment should not be core parts of an OS, but rather should be handled by applications that run on the OS? We're not buying a television, after all.

Re:Am I the only one...? (1)

dreemernj (859414) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988137)

I agree as far as my own preferences for an OS, but I'd say a lot of people out there buy computers will little experience (you know, the people whom answer the question "What version of windows do you have?" with "Office 2000"), and want certain things to just work. Considering how many non-techies are interested in MP3s and streaming video and everything, I think these are things that are justifiably being integrated more into Windows.

Which is fine to me. Because I'm not going to use Vista :-)

Poor bastards (1)

Moby Cock (771358) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987927)

On a related note, Steve Ballmer also announced the end of paid vacation for Microsoft employees through to Christmas 2007.

Vista To Be Renamed After Code Rewrite (1)

Skeetskeetskeet (906997) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987930)

Will be called Mac Vista 1.0

Can we go one day without Vista stories? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14987950)

It seems like Microsoft's internal memo saying that they would try to make sure some significant news on Vista came out each day is alive and well on Slashdot. Every god damn day, we have a Windows Vista story on here and every day is the same old comments. Can we please vote for a Vista free day please?

Now it's two stories in a row. Stop the madness. I'd rather read Kernel release stories than this nonsense.

If they are fixing the media centre code. . . (0, Offtopic)

frankthechicken (607647) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987954)

Then why not fix the god awful music library?

It takes forever to search through a relatively large music database (>30Gb), completely grinding to a halt.

The music search is pathetic. You cannot search for tags across categories!!

It will only search individual tag categories for the typed phrase. Unless Beatles Help is the name of an artist, album, or song the pathetic search will not find it.

How anyone could release Media Center 2005 with the tagline stating 2005 with these capabilities is pathetic.

While I'm ranting, why on the search results (when they finally turn up) does it not state the full details of the results? Why do you have to click on the name of the song title before you find out who the song is by? The user interface is possibly the worst case of style over functionality I have ever seen.

"Vista is People Ready" (3, Funny)

tegeus (658616) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987967)

Just not computer ready....sigh

unrealistic goals (2, Interesting)

cwtrex (912286) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987969)

I remember reading a good portion of their Rapid Application Development book. I sometimes wonder when I read these articles if they have read it themselves. The main rule in that book is to not set unrealistic goals. I remember hearing the first time about Vista that it might not be out until 2007. I think they should have stuck with that as their original goal. Dropping off features just to make a 2006 rush made them reset their programming team's focus too many times. The cost? Time. I realize that an operating system is not the easiest program in the world, but this is Microsoft. They have existing code to choose from, they have programming geniuses at their finger steps, and they were SUPPOSED to have an idea how to program efficiently according to that book with the Microsoft name on it. Lesson for Microsoft: take your own advice and use it!

Scramble well (1)

Bromskloss (750445) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987972)

Up to 60% of the code in the new consumer version of Microsoft new Vista operating system is set to be rewritten as the Company "scrambles" to fix internal problems

Up to 60% of the code in the new consumer version of Microsoft new Vista operating system is set to be scrambled to make reverse engineering more difficult. I mean, you can obiously not be secure if someone knows about you source code.

If really lucky, a Vista runner will also have even more than the six seconds [slashdot.org] other scamblejets have before crash.

Slow news day? (5, Funny)

paeanblack (191171) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987973)

Microsoft is pulling some staff from an finished project and assigning them to an unfinished project...targeting a similar market, no less...

Brilliant!

Re:Slow news day? (1)

IorDMUX (870522) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988033)

I believe you mean...

Brillant!

Re:Slow news day? (1)

akheron01 (637033) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988129)

Is that you paula?

For once, I think the analysts are UNDERestimating (1)

xxxJonBoyxxx (565205) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987976)

"Analysts estimate that Microsoft`s delays in releasing the next generation of its operating system, known as Vista, have cost it about $500 million."

This number seems low considering that another major Vista delay will cause qualified employees to seek employment elsewhere, cause major customers to have more time to consider and switch to alternative technologies, sap the XBox team and reduce everyone's confidence in Microsoft. I'd take Microsoft's total revenue and dock at least 5%...

60% Is NOT IN THE ARTICLE (4, Insightful)

ThinkFr33ly (902481) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987978)

Go ahead. Do a find on the page. The only place where the number 60 is even in there is in the article's title and in a link back to the SAME article at the bottom of the page.

In fact, this 60% number is made up. Not only would this be impossible in less than a year, 60% of the code in Vista isn't even new to Vista.

Hey Slashdot editors... I know you guys are really into MS bashing and you want to satisfy the thirst that most Slashdotters have for MS blood, but at least check to make sure that articles your posting have a shred of truth in them.

So what? (5, Funny)

helix_r (134185) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987986)

Shut up, fools, 99+% of you are going to end up using Vista anyway.

Re:So what? (5, Funny)

fatted (777789) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988028)

Shut up, fools, 99+% of you are going to end up using Vista anyway.
I think you'll find that the answer is merely 98.2%. Who's the fool NOW!!

Re:So what? (2, Interesting)

richman555 (675100) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988034)

My next computer will be a Mac. XP is the last version for me.

Xbox code (4, Funny)

Rob T Firefly (844560) | more than 8 years ago | (#14987996)

Microsoft has pulled programmers from the highly succesful Xbox team to help resolve many problems associated with entertainment and media centre functionality inside the OS.

Xbox code in Vista! Think of the possibilites!!

When we get the Blue Screen of Death we can simply wait a few seconds and respawn somewhere nearby our original desktop.

We can use a Gameshark to hack ourselves more time or chances to get our work done.

We can whip out a plasma rifle from "Halo" to frag Clippy with.

Re:Xbox code - Does This Mean (1)

gurutc (613652) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988027)

Vista will also kill the power supply in my PC?

Acutal Release Prediction: Summer of 2007 (1)

Tweekster (949766) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988000)

I pushed back the expected release date from April of 2007 to July Where are all the fanboys claiming it will be out soon because microsoft said so....

It's because of WWDC (3, Insightful)

Pao|o (92817) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988004)

Apple moved this year's WWDC from July to August thus the need for Microsoft to delay & rewrite 60% of Vista so it can copy all the new geewhiz features of OS X 10.5 Leopard.

Anyone who disagrees with me is a Microsoft fanboy. ;)

Sounds like "Telephone" (4, Insightful)

overshoot (39700) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988011)

Frankly, I doubt it. It sounds like something that mutated from either:
  • 60% of modules require some change (as distinct from "rewritten") or
  • 60% of <insert section> needs to be rewritten (as distinct from "Vista).

You can think as little as you like of Microsoft's management (and you'd have to go pretty low to match me) but I can't see even them being so flagrantly (stupid|dishonest) as to promise a 2007Q1 delivery of a 60% rewrite of something that took five years to get this far.

They are upgrading Vista from .NET 2.0 to .NET 2.1 (1)

more (452266) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988030)

They must be upgrading Vista from .NET 2.0 to .NET 2.1 ;-)

Slashdot: Up to the minute Anti-Microsoft news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14988048)

OMG Steve is a bald, fat, intense, scary, and incredibly aggresive man. 600 Comments!

No one involved in OSS has such blind frothing hatred for Microsoft.
It's to the point that most of you don't even understand what's going on in both closed and open development today.

60% of something is still 60% (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14988052)

It really doesn't matter if they are rewriting 60% of a certain part of the OS or 60% of the OS in general. The fact is that because they are brining in more programmers to TRY and get the job done shows some panic on MS' part. Now that new programmers have been introduced to an already screwed up dev team I believe things will only get worse. There is an old saying that applies well to this scenario, "Too many cooks spoil the soup".

The trial that all OS's must pass (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14988057)

This is Microsoft's Copland [wikipedia.org] .

Obligitory pun (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14988061)

Vista still off in the Vistance.

Sad, Bad Reporting! (4, Interesting)

cyberjessy (444290) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988077)

I have been installing and testing Vista since the early betas. To the last one, build 5308. I have seen things getting better all along the way, from better graphics, speed and more reliability. It looked like a mess earlier, but then they cut features and made schedules more realistic.

Build 5308 is feature complete, and has not crashed even once. It supports all the devices on my machine. Now why the hell would they rewrite 60% of a perfectly well running system??? Microsoft has said that most of the work remaining is related to security and performance. I trust them, because I have seen it.

I read the article, I could not find the source of this information. The memo that was included does not speak about this 60% figure. They have not mentioned any other sources. Now why is this making news!!!??

so lets make a list.. (5, Interesting)

naelurec (552384) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988089)

1. Internet Explorer 7 still has major security issues that plague Internet Explorer 6

2. Microsoft Office is delayed

3. Vista is delayed.

4. Microsoft restructures the Windows division before a major OS release

5. Daniel Lyons from Forbes is underwhelmed with the Vista presentation and finds it complex and of little added value.

6. Microsoft elected not to utilize its .NET tools in developing bundled applications that will ship with Vista, instead opting for lower level languages that are more suspectible to security issues.

7. Throughout all of this, the security team at Microsoft decided to school Apple on security (I wonder if no one at Microsoft was paying attention?)

8. Businesses sold on the "Software Assurance" and other licensing gimmicks are getting very aggervated at was could be considered bait-and-switch (get SA, get updates .. oh wait, we don't have updates because we are delaying ALL of our major products..)

9. There is the possibility of major rewrites to Vista (though until it is confirmed by another source, I'll take it with a grain of salt..).

Interesting.

Not a "Meeee Toooo", or a nay-sayer (2, Insightful)

ursabear (818651) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988097)

Folks,

Look at it this way: It takes major cojones [wikipedia.org] to admit to a huge re-write (especially if the re-writes involve core bits and pieces). This is particularly true when you're talking about a system of software that literally affects many tens of millions of computers worldwide.

Looking at it another way. If I'm going to have to use it (at work, that is), I'd rather it be very stable and transparent to my work. If it takes them five more years, that's fine with me. XP spanks the 9x Windows clan, and seems more stable than the Win2000 desktop versions I had to use at work.

The good news is that Vista's delay won't effect my music, my personal computer musings, or personal software development - I'm perfectly happy with various Linux distros, Solaris, and OSX... Windows is fine, my family does use it from time to time, and I'd like to see if Vista can maybe fuel some future competition for better OS software.

I have access the vista code! (4, Funny)

hsoft (742011) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988100)

It went from:
#import <WinXP.h>

WinXPApplyTheme(PRETTY_THEME);
WinXP RunLoop();
to:
#import <WinXP.h>

WinXPApplyTheme(PRETTIER_THEME); //To "Impact people" better
WinXPApplyPolicy(DISALLOW_GATOR); //For improved security
WinXPRunLoop(); // We're going to f___ing kill google!

Maybe this means... (1)

Seta (934439) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988108)

...that we'll finally get "2 person solitaire"? Multiplayer pain is always the best. *snickers*

Not only is there no source of "60%" but... (2, Interesting)

Jhaierr (914371) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988112)

... there are big ol' grammar errors and typos, three in the same paragraph. I haven't even looked through the rest of the article to find more.

"Microsoft has also admitted that it has major problems in it's Windows division and has has immediatly initiated a total restructure of the division, a move that comes after a costly delay in rolling out its Vista program."

In other news... (1)

WisC (963341) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988133)

A totally unrelated study has found that 60% of all MS programming projects will go 60% overbudget, 60 percent of the time and 60% of code will be bug-ridden. An anonymous insider was quoted saying "we are aiming for 59% next year, but in reality it will be 61% in two years".

Breaking news (1)

Jonboy X (319895) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988134)

This just in: The next version of Microsoft Windows will suck. More at 11, 11:05, 11:10, 11:15...

open source can help (1)

psbrogna (611644) | more than 8 years ago | (#14988141)

Dear Mr. Balmer,

At this point, I think its time to be frank with your team about their progress on Vista and perhaps consider a different approach. I'd recommend renaming Vista to Vistex and spinning up a linux distro. Shouldn't take too long and then you can put all this ugliness behind you and we can all move on.

Respectfully, Long time Windows & Linux User

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