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Group Testing Widescreen LCD Monitors

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the tough-day-at-the-office dept.

153

An anonymous reader writes "If you're in the market for a new widescreen display, there's a group test of five models at the Bit-Tech site. The test focuses on real world gaming and DVD watching rather than artificial spec tests, and there's also discussion of design, ergonomics etc. An interesting read for those making the jump to wide." From the article: "Let's define the point of this test. We're going to make the assumption that you've got a half-decent graphics card, and you're looking for a new flat panel to connect to it. You want to watch movies on DVD and in hi-def (either as Apple trailers or via BitTorrent) and you want to play the latest games. The price range we're looking at is the £300-£400 range. Above that, you start to get into the territory of 24" screens from companies like Dell and Samsung. Below that, you're going into a range occupied mostly by 19" displays at 1280x1024."

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153 comments

wow (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15034359)

fascinating

hmmm (0, Flamebait)

nomadic (141991) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034384)

Maybe the story should have started with "If you live in Britain and...". If you're an American this article is worthless to you.

Re:hmmm (0)

Bromskloss (750445) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034394)

Maybe the story should have started with "If you live in Britain and...". If you're an American this article is worthless to you.

I agree with you on the Britain thing, but.. who said we all assumed America?!

Re:hmmm (3, Funny)

Stradenko (160417) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034426)

Didn't you know that Great Britain and America make up 97% of the civilized world...(and 70% of the uncivilized world)

Re:hmmm (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15034404)

Why? Most of the other articles don't start with "If you are an American and..."

Re:hmmm (1)

heinousjay (683506) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034596)

For your edification [slashdot.org] .

Not trying to troll, that frequent answer is a legitimate point. Feel free to make any assumptions you want about countries of origin on sites that originate in other countries.

Re:hmmm (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15034429)

Everybody knows that widescreen monitors are primarily used for viewing pornography anyway. This is about as newsworthy as a new brand of warming lubricating pleasure gel.

Re:hmmm (1)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034461)

Everybody knows that widescreen monitors are primarily used for viewing pornography anyway.

The problem is not the viewing technology, it's the quality of the clips themselves.

On a different note, if these people send me one of these screens, I'll be happy to send email them a report on its quality...

Re:hmmm (2, Funny)

Firehed (942385) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034783)

I've got a pair of widescreens, and I've got the dignity to not need to post as an AC. Widescreens are better suited to your eyes, and it's not just coincidence that the viewable area is roughly a golden rectangle.

Re:hmmm (1)

The Snowman (116231) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035541)

It's no coincidence that 16x9 is closer to the human eyes' viewing area. While our natural field of vision is not a rectangle nor is it consistent from one person to another, in general, we see the world in wide"screen".

Re:hmmm (2, Insightful)

Psiren (6145) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034444)

If you're an American this article is worthless to you.

Welcome to our world. I don't see why it should be worthless though, a review is a review nonetheless. I quite often have to resort to reading US reviews of equipment because decent UK ones are not easy to find, especially on really new equipment. Assuming the models are the same, the reviews can still be useful.

Re:hmmm (2, Insightful)

OneSeventeen (867010) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034548)

Maybe the story should have started with "If you live in Britain and...". If you're an American this article is worthless to you.

That's the exact same reason I don't use Calculus, not being an Egyptian nor a Greek myself.

Re:hmmm (2, Funny)

zaguar (881743) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034585)

I don't use Calculus for different(ial) reasons...

Yes, I failed Introductory Calculus, I couldn't intergrate with the class.

Re:hmmm (1)

Killall -9 Bash (622952) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034603)

Newton was deffinately Egyptian and/or Greek.

Re:hmmm (1)

Meneudo (661337) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034655)

True, Newton is generally regarded as the father of calculus, although there is evidence [wikipedia.org] that Archimedes, Eudoxus, and the Egyptions did some work involving integrals.

better analogy (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034687)

That's the exact same reason I don't use Calculus, not being an Egyptian nor a Greek myself.

No, that's the exact same reason you don't buy your papyrus back in the year 2000 BC.

Re:hmmm (1)

JourneyExpertApe (906162) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034829)

And I don't use an abacus because I'm not Namibian. ;)

Egyptian? WTF? Newton was English, and Leibniz was German. Wrong continent and wrong millenium.

What part of WORLD Wide Web do you not understand? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15034683)

Good grief, no wonder the rest of the world hates us.
I _live_ here and I hate us.

Re:hmmm (0, Flamebait)

Jesapoo (929240) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034823)

Are you getting upset because only one of those monitors is available in the US? Aww.. for once, we have nice toys in the UK that you don't have over there :D

I know you're already jealous of our budget defecit being much nicer than yours... and all those lovely cars we get over here that can actually turn corners and don't swallow an oilfield every few miles... A prime minister who, although imperfect, can at least form a sentence without prompting or major gaffe. A healthcare system that doesn't discriminate against those who need it most. The lack of the following: Jerry Springer, Britney Spears, Eminem. Lower gun crime. Civility. An armed forces which at least attempts to avoid friendly-fire. Oh, and then there's all the history, art, architecture...

Oh, I'm sorry, was I mocking your country? It's probably because your ego offended me.

Who needs karma? :D

Re:hmmm (1)

hobot (945430) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034958)

The lack of the following: Jerry Springer, Britney Spears, Eminem. Lower gun crime. Civility. An armed forces which at least attempts to avoid friendly-fire. Oh, and then there's all the history, art, architecture...

So you are saying Britian has a higher gun cime rate, no civility, vengeful armed froces, and no history art or architecture?

Try thinking your posts through, when you say we are jealous of your lack of something, it means you dont have it, not you do.

Worth is subjective (2, Funny)

digitaldc (879047) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034911)

Maybe the story should have started with "If you live in Britain and...". If you're an American this article is worthless to you.

But to some it was worth the 2 seconds of Schadenfreude from reading your post.

Hmm (2, Insightful)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034389)

Is ~$600-$800 (US dollars) really a reasonable prince range for this audience, though?

I made $55k, which grants me significant free funds for someone still living at home with his parents. Still, my co-workers aren't even looking at LCD monitors above three or four hundred. For that you can get an okay 21 incher if you're willing to risk your money on the internets.

But twice that for just a PC monitor? That's easily as much as the rest of the system itself. You can watch DVDs on a regular big-screen TV. Granted, that will cost even more (several times, probably), but you can also use it for cable, and video games. I just can't see this stuff being in the range of the typical slashdotter.

Feel free to prove me wrong if y'all are a bunch of Mr. Moneybags', though :)

Re:Hmm (2, Funny)

hometoast (114833) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034425)

I made $55k, which grants me significant free funds for someone still living at home with his parents.


Get an apartment slacker!

Its ok to mod me down ;)

Re:Hmm (1)

O'Laochdha (962474) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034465)

The pound's not that strong. £300-£400 is only about $500-600. That's still a lot for a monitor, but they'll probably pull it down soon, and it's really the kind of thing you wouldn't buy unless you had a bit extra tucked aside anyway; it's a frill.

Re:Hmm (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15034531)

Google converts the 300 to 400 pounds to 521.85 to 695.80 USD.

Re:Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15034467)

I made $55k, which grants me significant free funds for someone still living at home with his parents.
Unacceptable. Mostly because I am jealous, depending on how much you are socking away, and how old you are. Aslo, not much sex going on when you are over 22 and living with the parents... My cousin became a CPA, got a job (as did his wife who was alos a CPA) and they lived with his parents for a year with the intention of banking a smuch money as possible for the year- at the end of the year (which was hell) they has like 90K put aside, which went right to a down payment on a house...

They're not that much... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15034489)

I just bought a Dell 2005FPW for $370 Cdn including taxes, which is their 20" Widescreen LCD with a coupon. They also had it available for $499 Cdn as well.

Re:They're not that much... (1)

voice_of_all_reason (926702) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034578)

I attempted to use one of the those online coupons about a month ago, only to have the checkout refuse to honor it. The chat room help people basically said that I qualified and they couldn't explain why it wasn't working, but they really weren't too into actually doing anything about it. So I kinda forgot about it.

Re:Hmm (1)

LunaticTippy (872397) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034560)

I have an elderly 17" CRT monitor I'm going to replace when it dies. (Please die soon!) I've been watching the LCD prices drop and drop, now I'm thinking 21" if it dies now.

That's nearly as big as my TV, so maybe it makes sense for me to spend double my monitor budget and replace my TV at the same time. I could mainly use a small part of the screen sitting at my desk (to avoid too much neck motion) and sitting back on my couch use it as a TV.

Re:Hmm (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034969)

If you can sit back a little bit, a 1080p TV might do the trick. Both Sceptre and Westinghouse Digital offer 37" 1080p TVs. They work fine with Windows and Mac, probably Linux with at most a mode line change, and they are pixel-for-pixel capable on DVI input, something that isn't so common with LCD TVs. That gets you a sizable HD-ready TV that also works as a high resolution monitor. You'd want to sit farther back though for desktop work.

Re:Hmm (1)

LunaticTippy (872397) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035270)

That is an interesting suggestion. Instead of using my monitor as a TV I could use my TV as a monitor. That's the kind of thinking this country needs!

It would work pretty well I think. It could sit at the back edge of my huge desk, about 5' from my eyes. My couch could be 5' further back from my desk. If I keep my desk cleaner it'd be a nice setup.

Re:Hmm (1)

Andrzej Sawicki (921100) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034658)

But twice that for just a PC monitor? That's easily as much as the rest of the system itself. You can watch DVDs on a regular big-screen TV. Granted, that will cost even more (several times, probably), but you can also use it for cable, and video games. I just can't see this stuff being in the range of the typical slashdotter.
For that price you get a monitor and something to watch movies on in one. Some people do not own a TV. At all.

Relatively Cheap (1)

Jimbroskee (868900) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034817)

I remember paying $730 for a 17inch Sony CRT. A little before that, you could pay over 2k for a 21inch CRT. I could take that 730 dollars now and nearly pay for a 24inch widescreen dell. I am amazed at how relatively inexpensive they are today. A friend just got the 24inch dell, it is a gorgeous. I have a 1905FP, and was considering another, now I think I will go for the 24

Re:Hmm (2, Interesting)

zenslug (542549) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034844)

I've got a friend whose dad runs a branch of an LCD manufacturing tools company (ie, they supply the tools to the people who actually make the LCDs), and I asked him about the future prices of LCD TVs. He says that by Christmas of 2006 a ~37" TV will cost under $1000 and by Christmas 2007 a 47" will cost under $1000.

Granted, he's talking about TVs and not monitors, but since the tech is basically the same, we should expect the prices on monitors to drop at about the same rate.

Re:Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15035018)

Is ~$600-$800 (US dollars) really a reasonable prince range for this audience, though?

Keep in mind that this is the same Slashdot that routinely posts reviews of $500+ video cards.

I made $55k, which grants me significant free funds for someone still living at home with his parents.

Uh...

Still, my co-workers aren't even looking at LCD monitors above three or four hundred.

They're making over $1000 a week, and don't think they can afford more than $400 for the most important piece of their computer?

But twice that for just a PC monitor? That's easily as much as the rest of the system itself.

The display is arguably the most important part of the system. It's what you're looking at and interacting with 100% of the time you're using it. Doesn't it make sense to spend as much on this as everything else?

You can watch DVDs on a regular big-screen TV. Granted, that will cost even more (several times, probably), but you can also use it for cable, and video games.

Or get a $150 tuner card, and use the same panel for both.

Feel free to prove me wrong if y'all are a bunch of Mr. Moneybags', though :)

What are you spending your money on, that you can't afford even half a week's salary on a display? Hookers and blow?

Re:Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15035022)

You make $55k/year and you still live with your parents........?

Recently purchased the 24" Dell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15035222)

I recently purchased the 24" dell-

I don't own/am not buying a TV- here's why-
The Dell has TONS of inputs, and supports Picture in Picture on the inputs.

1)The dell has Composite video input. I currently have a VCR hooked up to it, and can watch TV on it.
2) I can hook video games up to it too, either through the composite, or if I get a VGA adapter through the Analog HD15 Monitor connection.
3) Combining the Monitor/TV functionality saves me space. I don't need to spend space in my apartment on another display (that is more limited in features)

This thing is bigger than many of my friend's TVs, so I see no real reason to go out and spend $300+ on a dedicated TV.

Add to that the fact that it includes a card reader (saved me from having to buy one) and a USB Hub.

Yes, it was an expensive purchase, but I feel that it was worth it.

Re:Hmm (1)

Glsai (840331) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035239)

The VX2025 is showing at 420 or so on newegg which isn't so bad. I'm interested in a comparison between that and the Dell2005FPW. About 400 bucks seems a nice price point for a widescreen 20 inch monitor.

Re:Hmm (1)

pyros (61399) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035518)

I just bought one from newegg a few weeks ago for like $340. I've been really happy with it.

Innovation (0)

TheBogie (941620) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034417)

Wide screens have been around for awhile.

What they need to do is make these monitors wider and taller.

Now that would be innovation!

not teh only site with reviews (2, Informative)

neersign (956437) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034419)

Toms Hardware constantly is doing reviews of monitors and such, and just released a new review of 19 monitors [tomshardware.com] the other day

Re:not teh only site with reviews (3, Informative)

jmke (776334) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034594)

uhm.. not 19 monitors but 19" monitors, there are less then 19 tested:)

Re:not teh only site with reviews (1)

neersign (956437) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034624)

i think the subject of the comment shows my typing/editing skills are not up to par...thanks for catching that, tho.

Leaves out two most popular models (3, Interesting)

n0mad6 (668307) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034427)

that are the Dell 2005FPW and the Apple Cinema Display. The Cinema Display may not fall in the £300-400 price range they're talking about but here in the US, you can certainly get the Dell for less than $500.

Games (1)

chanrobi (944359) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034556)

[i]...and you want to play the latest games[/i] It might be kind of hard to push those framerates at those widescreen resolutions, especially with maximum detail with anything less than a top of the line rig.

Re:Games (2, Interesting)

OctoberSky (888619) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035257)

Maximum detail is the keyword there.

I have a Dell 2005fpw ($397 to my door from Dell!) with a decent rig (AMD A64 3700+ (754), MSI K8n Neo Platinum, 1 gig Crucial Ram, 7200 RPM Segate SATA, Sapphire X850XTPE (AGP), on board sound, and everything OCed a bit.
I haven't bought a game since F.E.A.R. and Quake 4, and even with those I was still playing BF2 all day long so I can speak about that better.

I ran the game at (shortcut hack) 1680x1050 which was really 1600x1200 stretched. I ran everything high except Shadows (which I didn't care for) and texture (which at medium I couldn't see a difference), sound was also kept at medium quality.
In the bigger fight seens, mainly a large fight (10+ people) and artillery coming down I would slow down to 20 or so FPS, but I was usually around 45FPS. I am not a pro-player, nor am I a FPS whore so I was happy with that. I gave up shadows and textures and facny pants sound (I am on 2.1)

That system cost (including monitor and keyboard & mouse) around $2300 a little over a year ago. If your in the market for a $400+ monitor I think your computer will be adequate (mine or similar) and you will be able to play well enough. Going ahead I think I need to upgrade (which sucks with AGP and 754) in order to run future games at 1680x1050 (native on the 2001fpw).

Re:Leaves out two most popular models (1)

Phaed (953768) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034564)

Some info for those actually interested in a quality widescreen monitor.

Dell sells the 2005fpw starting at ~$530. Do not buy the monitor at this price. Wait a couple of weeks or so and you will find it on sale for 20-25% off. This brings the price to near $400.

Additionally, if you ebay "dell coupon", you can typically find coupons for $35 off of purchases of $300 or more. These are completely legit, and when I purchased two (yes... it's amazing) 2005FPWs, I spent a buck fifty to save $70. (if you do buy two, make sure to buy each as a separate order so you can use two couptons)

This process brings the $530 monitor to about $370. Considering it's about as full-featured as a monitor gets (4 inputs, PiP, rotates to the vertical portrait view if you so desire), it's a great deal.

Be forwarned though, the Dell 2005FPWs are plagued with 'backlight bleeding' issues - where some or all of the corners of the display are significantly brighter than the rest of the display. If you have this problem it can be very distracting when viewing a dark screen. But, this problem is covered by the three year warranty, and supposedly Dell will ship you your new monitor before you have to send the old one back.

And just in case you're wondering... watching DVDs in widescreen is the only way to go.

Re:Leaves out two most popular models (1)

Breakfast Pants (323698) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034583)

Yeah, I picked up the Dell and a desktop (e510 with a pentium D 2.8ghz and a gig of ram) for $750 a couple of weeks ago. The desktop itself ebays for around $500 so I figure I walked away with the monitor for around $250. I've seen it by itself from dell consistently for ~$400. The article seems way off (but I suppose it might really be that way in Europe).

2005FPW Threadjack (2, Informative)

superid (46543) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034634)

Thread contribution - I have a 2005FPW that I love. I found a sale at Dell for $380 shipped, and they apparently repeat that periodically. It looks great and I love the integrated USB. I game on it a lot and I've never noticed any stuck pixels or ghosts.

Threadjack - Randomly and annoyingly it will just go blank. I power it off/on and it will come on for 3 seconds and go off again, like it's in a powersave mode. Sometimes unplugging AC power will fix it, sometimes not. Sometimes I have to reboot, sometimes not. Sometimes I power down and unplug everything...thats the most extreme and most annoying fix. The thing is, I may go a month without a problem then it will happen twice per day for a week. Video, display, XP, and Motherboard updates are current and the problem persists. AFAIK every power saving feature is shut off. Help!

Re:2005FPW Threadjack (1)

owlstead (636356) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034912)

I've got the same, for 600 euro's (which, believe it or not, is cheap here in Europe) - although that included shipping and the sound bar. It's major drawback is that of most TFT's: significant light leakage. It's pretty uniform though, although the corners leak slightly more light. As you said: no stuck pixels, great ergonomics, good value. Lovely for text oriented stuff such as programming and reading slashdot. At least this site is not stuck on 800 x 600 as some sites are. Shame of the 1650 x 1050 pixels, otherwise.

I've never experienced the problem you've described. I must say that it does sound as a configuration problem if the USB and the lights on the front remain on. Otherwise, you might have a problem with the (build in) power supply.

Re:2005FPW Threadjack (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15034923)

Try a different cable, there may be a cracked wire or loose pin or something causing it to think the computer is powered down?

Re:2005FPW Threadjack (1)

SpiritGod21 (884402) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034993)

I've got a 1905FP from Dell (the sale for the 20.5 widescreen started a week after I bought mine >.) and was having problems with it flickering during graphic intense applications (World of Warcraft in this case). Called Dell, explained the problem, and they had a new LCD monitor at my door the next day. Their customer service is top notch, and if you purchased the 2005FPW less than a year ago then you're covered. Give them a call and see if they'll replace it. My bet is that they will.

Re:2005FPW Threadjack (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15035089)

Power supply fault - call dell and get the thing serviced under the repair plan.

Re:Leaves out two most popular models (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15034664)

RTFA. They couldn't GET anyone to send them a Dell for review.

Re:Leaves out two most popular models (1)

Duds (100634) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034776)

If they're not in the range they didn't "Leave them out", they weren't eligable.

I'm sure you can pick up a 30" widescreen off the back of a truck in Hong Kong for £300 - £400 too but that doesn't count either.

Dude... get a Dell (4, Informative)

utexaspunk (527541) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034526)

I own one the Dell 24" display (2405FPW), and I have to say it is one of the best purchases I have made in a long time. The thing looks gorgeous, didn't have any stuck pixels or anything like that, has a nice thin bezel, it has DVI, VGA, RGB, Componenent and S-Video inputs, allows you to do PIP and side-by-side of 2 inputs. It functions as a USB hub and a memory card reader. The stand is well-made and adjusts smoothly with a wide range of motion (including being able to rotate it 90 degrees). It's also $500 cheaper than the 23" Apple cinema display. Dell's computers may be ugly pieces of crap, but I really feel like it is an unbelievably good buy.

Re:Dude... get a Dell (1)

TheSkepticalOptimist (898384) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034570)

I have to agree, Dell does good LCD panels. Not sure who their suppliers are, but when I got a Dell Notebook 5 years ago, regardless of how much of a piece of junk it is now, I wish I could rip off the screen and use it as my monitor. It's a 15" LCD with 1400 * 1080 resolution and it was bright and crisp and had good contrast. Even by today's standards, you can't find a Desktop LCD screen at 15" with more then 1024 x 768 resolution. I have rarely seen PC notebooks with such good quality screens, and I would even say that Apple's PowerBook screens don't compare (at least not the 12" PowerBook I have which I have found always dark and slightly blurry). At least Dell does one thing right, and they don't skimp on the LCD technology they use.

Re:Dude... get a Dell (2, Informative)

Grand (152636) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034908)

Samsung makes all Dell LCD's.

Re:Dude... get a Dell (1)

Cornelius the Great (555189) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035268)

Then how come my Dell monitor has an LG on it?

Re:Dude... get a Dell (1)

th1ckasabr1ck (752151) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034590)

I have two of those monitors side by side on my desk right now and I have never seen anything sweeter. The best monitor I have ever used, by FAR and hands down. I love being able to use two vertical tab groups in Visual Studio without having to cut off half of each file - it makes browsing/referencing code so much easier.

Also it has all of those nice inputs for my xbox360 dev kit.

Re:Dude... get a Dell (1)

dirkbelig (60061) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034668)

I just got a 2405 about a month ago and it's a slick bit of kit alright. I'm going to hook my Xbox 360 to the RGB inputs along with my PC.

The only naff detail is the brightness: It'll give you a tan if you don't dial it down to zero and then back off the brightness and contrast in your display driver control panel.

Note: This applies to the DVI connector only; analog hookup allows for tweakage of everything via the monitor's controls. DVI only allows for brightness to be adjusted.

Re:Dude... get a Dell (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15034691)

I hear many people saying this, but I'm having trouble figuring out why. I have to use one at work, and it's a piece of crap.

Sure, the LCD itself is fine, but the bezel is butt-ugly: a big Dell logo, and lots of little buttons for an on-screen menu system I can't waste the time to figure out. It has VGA? Um, yay? I've tried using VGA with it, and it's so blurry I get a headache almost immediately.

I guess if you're watching TV, having component/s-video inputs are nice, but at that point, why not just get a cheap tuner card so you can record it, put it in a window, etc., too?

The stand sucks, too. First of all, it's not flat on the desk like the Apple stand, so you can't really put anything right there -- so in practice, the Dell is a lot deeper. The position controls are hard to figure out. It takes everybody in my office a while to figure out how to raise it (obscure unlabelled button), and I'm still not sure what the button in the center of the back does. Sure, you can rotate it 90 degrees, but unlike the old Radius monitors that did this, you then have to go into the Windows Control Panel to tell it you rotated it. This is progress?

It functions as a USB hub and memory card reader; I guess if I had memory cards, I'd appreciate that, but I really prefer the USB-and-Firewire hubs in the Apple displays.

To echo the sentiments of an earlier slashdot poster comparing Thinkpads to Powerbooks: if this is the best the PC world has, then Apple is further ahead than I thought.

Re:Dude... get a Dell (2)

utexaspunk (527541) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035090)

The VGA input on mine works fine. I have my desktop connected via DVI and frequently connect my laptop via VGA and the video quality is indistinguishable. Perhaps you have a problem with your video card?

The component and s-video inputs are quite useful if you own an X-box or PS2, or if you have a cable box that you want to hook up to it. Just because you can't think of a good use for something doesn't mean there aren't lots of people who can.

I have had no difficulty with the stand or the controls on the display. I suggest that perhaps the difficulty you are having understanding them is related to the fact that you are an idiot.

The Apple display may have a thin base, but I think that comes at the expense of much of the range of motion that the Dell has. It may be a little better looking but not enough to justify costing 163% what the Dell costs for a smaller display. Besides, if Dell made it too pretty you'd probably complain that they're ripping off Apple. I like Apple -in fact I have a Mac Mini on its way, which will be replacing the big, ugly, noisy, and aging Dell which is currently connected to my beautiful display- but your fanboism is outta control, dude...

Re:Dude... get a Dell (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15035326)

I have had no difficulty with the stand or the controls on the display. I suggest that perhaps the difficulty you are having understanding them is related to the fact that you are an idiot.

As I originally said, it's not me; it's every person in my office. If a whole bunch of computer developers can't figure something out, maybe it's just a teensy bit too complex.

That's the whole point of usability testing, by the way. You never know how people are going to use a product until you (*gasp*) let people try to use a product.

Besides, if Dell made it too pretty you'd probably complain that they're ripping off Apple.

Ah, the wild-ass-guess school of logic. I must have missed that class in college.

your fanboism is outta control, dude...

Fanboism would be if I was obsessed with Apples, to the point of not caring about the alternatives. The fact remains that I use both Dell and Apple products every day, and have listed a number of specific complaints about them.

*You*, on the other hand, resorted to ad hominem attacks.

Re:Dude... get a Dell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15035515)

I had the same problem with the buttons. Then I RTFM, and I figured it all out. VGA looks great on mine, too. I can't tell the difference between that and DVI.

Re:Dude... get a Dell (1)

Firehed (942385) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034831)

I've both both the 20" and 24" Dells [aquamods.com] , and I can testify that they're both excellent panels. The 24" is definately superior all-around but the 20" panel is excellent as well. Best yet, I only paid $1200 for the pair of them, thanks to Dell's frequent sales. Most single 24" displays sell for over that. I'd never buy another Dell computer, but their panels are second to none.

LCD not for everyone, selling my 24" Dell. (2, Insightful)

guidryp (702488) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035014)

I just bought the 2405 and someone is coming to look at it soon as it is for sale and it is only days old. Beware that dell has a 15% restocking fee.

Make sure you like LCDs before you buy. They are very different than CRT.

I like a dim screen. The 2405 is very Bright, even at minimum settings. I tend to run my CRTs at minimum brightness so it hurts my eyes to use an LCD for long periods.

Viewing angle issues bother me a fair bit. Dark tones shift when only 20 degrees off axis. If you sit close to a 24" wide screen you are going to be off axis somewhere on screen. All MVA/PVA panels do this and they are most of the market. IPS panels seem much superior in this regard, but good luck finding one.

Some things you should try before you buy and this is one of them. 500cd brightness in a computer monitor is just insane. But it contributes to making that contrast number higher, but in no contributes to makeing a usable monitor.

Overall though, most people love this monitor. And there is a lot to love. It looks amazingly sharp, colorfull, black is deep, and it has connectivity for everything. Human factor of greater eye fatigue rule it out for me.

Re:LCD not for everyone, selling my 24" Dell. (1)

utexaspunk (527541) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035143)

I use mine mostly as my media center and thus usually use it from 4-5 feet away on the couch, so I suppose this is why it doesn't bother me. Are you not able to adjust the brightess through your video card?

I also haven't been bothered by the viewing angle problem. In fact, the viewable area seems pretty good compared to a lot of other flat panels I've used.

To each his own, I guess...

Re:LCD not for everyone, selling my 24" Dell. (1)

guidryp (702488) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035571)

I use it for everything. It is great as a media center. At 5-6 ft it no longer too bright and the angle of view is a non issue.

But sitting close enought to touch it and doing serious work. White fonts on dark backgrounds are searing bright. I get unwelcome brightness shifts in darker games. Yeah it can be further dimmed in the grapics card panel, but this has mixed results.

Anyway it is mostly me that has the problem, this is a widely loved monitor.

Re:Dude... get a Dell (1)

dusanv (256645) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035187)

What about gaming? I looked at their site and I don't see a response time listed for the monitor which is usually not a good thing. These big buggers then to be on the slower side when it comes to response times. Also, will it support 1600x1200 without streching (meaning, just have two black bars left and right of the screen)?

Re:Dude... get a Dell (1)

vonPoonBurGer (680105) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035471)

I have a Dell 2005FPW, and it's fantastic for games. It especially shines if you can run the games at the panel's native resolution (1680x1050). More and more games are including support for widescreen aspect ratios. For example, right now I'm running World of Warcraft at native, and it looks fantastic. Even when I run games at lesser resolutions, the scaling is pretty good on this unit. I'd like to be running Oblivion at 1680x1050, but my video card (GeForce 6600GT) can't quite keep up at that resolution. There is no ghosting when playing games on this monitor, at least not that I've noticed.

I'd recommend not paying attention to the manufacturer's listed response times, there's a sickening amount of gamesmanship going on with those specs right now. For example, many LCD monitors are advertised as 8ms refresh because that's the response time in one *very narrow* range of the color spectrum. When you actually play games on these monitors, it quickly becomes apparent that the refresh times for wider spectrum shifts is actually much longer than the value advertised by the manufacturer. You're better off getting real-world measurements from somewhere like Tom's Hardware. See the bottom of the linked page for an example of one of their LCD refresh latency graphs:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/03/27/the_spring_ 2006_lcd_collection/page3.html [tomshardware.com]

If you can't find that kind of detailed review for the unit you're considering, go with subjective impressions of people who game on that monitor. I'd heartily recommend the Dell 2005FPW, and so would four of my gamer friends.

Re:Dude... get a Dell (1)

flynt (248848) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035562)

Yes, the black bar option is available for games w/out native wide screen resolution. I have used it for BF2 for instance.

Re:Dell 24" with KVM? (1)

KevinInGeorgia (964996) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035190)

I have the 2005FPW on a 4port KVM and love it. I have a Friend that is going to buy my 2005FPW so I can get a 2405FPW. Anyone running a 2405FPW with an Analog KVM? DVI KVM's are pricey and most say they can't do 1920x1200. Any Ideas?

Re:Dell 24" with KVM? (1)

utexaspunk (527541) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035403)

I'd hook up one device with the DVI input and one with the VGA. I do that with my desktop and laptop, and it works great. I have the base for my logitech wireless desktop plugged into the USB port on the side of the monitor so that I can easily pull it out and plug it into the laptop. I don't see any reason why a KVM wouldn't work fine with the VGA input, though...

DVD scaling? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15034530)

We also found that DVD playback in general didn't scale particularly well; moving from 720 x 576 to 1680x1050 requires what is essentially a 100% upscale.

What are they talking about here? The monitor shouldn't be handling DVD upscaling, it's done in software.

Re:DVD scaling? (2, Informative)

ePhil_One (634771) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034600)

The monitor shouldn't be handling DVD upscaling, it's done in software.

If you are using a HTPC. I'm actually using a Dell 2405FPW as a TV (Higher resolution and cheaper than the "TV" LCDs), so actually I am relying on the built in upscaling. Also, users whose systems lack the horsepower to drive games at full resolution, or players of games that don't support widescreen resolutions, will still be using the panels scaling capability.

Re:DVD scaling? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15034775)

If you are using a HTPC. I'm actually using a Dell 2405FPW as a TV (Higher resolution and cheaper than the "TV" LCDs), so actually I am relying on the built in upscaling. Also, users whose systems lack the horsepower to drive games at full resolution, or players of games that don't support widescreen resolutions, will still be using the panels scaling capability.

The monitor they're talking about only has DVI and VGA inputs, and I'm pretty sure they're only talking about playing the DVD from the computer, as that is what the review is all about. It's not about games either, they specifically say DVD upscaling. Seems more likely just ignorance on the reviewers part.

Re:DVD scaling? (1)

eelke_klein (676038) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034808)

The monitor shouldn't be handling DVD upscaling, it's done in software.

Not exactly correct. Video scaling is in most cases done using the overlay of the videocard. This overlay is scaled in hardware to the desired size. So it isn't done by the monitor and it isn't done in software.

Re:DVD scaling? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15034966)

Not exactly correct. Video scaling is in most cases done using the overlay of the videocard. This overlay is scaled in hardware to the desired size. So it isn't done by the monitor and it isn't done in software.

You're probably right, my point was that the scaling is done before it reaches the monitor, so it makes no sense to blame the monitor for it, like the reviewer does.

Re:DVD scaling? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15034821)

It's actually a 425 % upscaling (1,76 million pixels vs. 0,41 million pixels).

Dell 24" (2, Informative)

flynt (248848) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034591)

They do not review the Dell 24" in this story, but let me say I have been so pleased with mine. You can usually get up to 20-25% off from Dell if you do a google search for Dell coupons. You will not be sorry if you get that monitor and have a card that can support the native resolution (1920x1200). I have had no problems with games (BF2) or movies on it.

Re:Dell 24" (1)

karnal (22275) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034734)

Question:

What kind of resolution do you run the games at? If native, are you running any FPS games?

That's my only holdback about a monitor of this type. It may be nice, but if I can't get 50+ frames per second on UT2004, there's no point for me.

Oh yea, I'm only running a 6600GT at that, so I'm sure I couldn't run this monitor native and play ut.

Re:Dell 24" (1)

flynt (248848) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034826)

Well, I don't play many games to be honest. I can tell you my experience with Battlefield 2, a relatively newer game that is fairly taxing on systems as far as I can tell. The problem is, some games don't support widescreen resolutions, and some do it in an odd manner. For BF2, if you run in a widescreen resolution, it crops the top off of the display, so you're actually seeing *less* than in a 4:3 resolution. Not all games are like this, and I'm sure newer games and games of the future will have true widescreen support. So for BF2, I just play in 1600x1200, it doesn't look stretched to me. However, I have played in the native resolution. To get 50+ FPS, I definitely had to turn down the graphical effects to Medium. Although, this is of course highly dependent on the game (BF2) and my graphics card, which is a GO6800 (256 MB RAM) on a Dell laptop with 1 GB system RAM. I realize there are better laptop cards available now from nVidia which probably lay waste to mine. And of course for desktop machines, there are much better. My basic point is that it seems to be promising that if you bought a modern graphics card, you could get good performance in native resolution. I don't know the requirements of UT2004 though, so it's hard to say. I'd look at message boards for that game and find people who have large LCD's. I'm sure they're out there. Good luck.

The problem with LCD monitors. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15034595)

Every mainstream LCD monitor I have seen has very subtle hue or brightness changes with even very small changes in horizontal head position. Because of this each eye actually sees a slightly differently looking picture, due to the slightly different horizontal position of each eye relative to the monitor. This leads to what could be described as a "glare" effect. It subjectively appears like a glare, becaue it is similar to how a shiny surface appears in the sun, with different amounts of reflected rays hitting each eye. Perhaps I am particularly sensitive this as no one else seems to mention it. Then again most people don't raise concerns about the visual effects of 60hz refresh rates on CRT either.

Important part missing in summary (4, Insightful)

ubersonic (943362) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034598)

None of the displays have HDMI connectors and none of them support HDCP. This means you're not going to get a digital connection to your HD-DVD movies, but there is currently very little on the market that will.
So you're screwed in a year or two. Is this like easter-sale?

Re:Important part missing in summary (2, Insightful)

OverlordQ (264228) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034945)

but there is currently very little on the market that will.

Yea, but you're screwed with pretty much *anything* you buy.

Vista-ready LCD (4, Informative)

pin0chet (963774) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034632)

I recently purchased a Gateway FPD2185w 21" widescreen 1680x1050 monitor. It is AMAZING value. For about $500, I get a display with DVI-HDCP support, along with VGA, Component, S-video, and RCA inputs. Its got DCDi by Faroudja for flawless 1080i/480i deinterlacing, and top-notch scaling video processing with a 12ms response time. It looks fantastic with my PC via DVI, Xbox 360 via VGA, and Dish HD DVR via Component. Also, the customizable PiP options are very useful. Furthermore, when Vista comes out and the MPAA studios start implementing ICT on HD DVD/Blu-Ray discs, I won't have to buy a $300 Spatz HDCP stripper to view the full resolution 720p picture on my monitor.

Re:Vista-ready LCD (1)

kdekorte (8768) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034878)

I recently purchased this monitor as well and I am very pleased with it. I like all the adjustments that can be physically made to the monitor (up down, tilt, swivel and pivot). Picked it up at Circuit City. Only thing that was annoying is that it did not come with a DVI cable. So I had to pick one of those up.

Re:Vista-ready LCD (1)

Rob86TA (955953) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035262)

I'm just curious how much you get paid to adverti^H^H^H^H post your comments? Short of offering a link to buy it, that is the best advertisement I've seen yet!

no thanks (2)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034695)

At least for what I have been doing the widescreens suck.

Many games do not like them. C&C generals zero hour strecthes. Doom3 is slower in widescreen mode and older games simply hate them.

I instead took the monitor back and grabbed a pair of 19" AOC Lcd's for less money than the single Widescreen.

I also get much more realestate for video editing on the pair of 19" cheapies.

Re:no thanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#15035038)

Actually if you work this out, a widescreen 20" has 1680x1050 pixels, thats 1764000 pixels
A 19" has 1280x1024 pixels, thats 1310720 pixels, between 2 screens thats 2621440

2621440/1764000 =~ 1.486, so you get about 1/2 as much real estate again, however, my dell 2005FPW set me back ~£355, a good 19" will set your back between £250-300 (my el chepo one cost £200 at the time), assuming you buy 2x £250 screens, thats £500, which is x1.40845 more again

So basically, pixel for pixel, its actually about the same deal, plus my 2004FPW is much nicer IMO with a powered USB hub, PIP/PBP, DVI, VGA, S-Video and composite

Syntax Olevia (1)

FathomIT (464334) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034749)

I've been using a 34 inch Syntax Olevia that I purchased six months ago for $1500 including shipping. It is awesome and compares to Sharp in quality.

You are reading my subject. (1)

nutt98 (961257) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034753)

I think I'll stick with 'artificial spec tests', far more accurate.

OT: Why 1280x1024 for both 17" and 19" LCDs? (2, Interesting)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034800)

I have a 17" LCD monitor that does 1280x1024. I'd like to upgrade to a 19" monitor, but the only ones I've seen locally are also 1280x1024. In other words, the only difference between a 17" and 19" monitor are a couple hundred dollars and sitting a little closer to the screen.

Why is that? A 19" CRT typically gets you more pixels than a 17" CRT, so why isn't the same true for LCDs? I'm sure I could buy find a higher-resolution model somewhere if I looked hard enough, but I'm really wondering why that seems to be the exception rather than the norm.

Re:OT: Why 1280x1024 for both 17" and 19" LCDs? (1)

Sax Maniac (88550) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034971)

Right, go for a 20" ViewSonic for 1600x1200. I have a 19" Samsung and the pixels felt a little big for my taste. Buy pixels, not inches.

Re:OT: Why 1280x1024 for both 17" and 19" LCDs? (2)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035343)

Buy pixels, not inches.

Exactly. You can simulate inches by sitting closer to the screen, but either you have the pixels or you don't.

Newest 24 inch lcd panel from del ldoes hdcp (1)

majortom1981 (949402) | more than 8 years ago | (#15034954)

Who ever said that no monitors support hdcp are wrong. the newest models of the 24 inch dell lcd panel support dvi hdcp. So all you would need is a dvi to Hdmi adapter. We use regular dell lcd panels here and they are gorgeus. If it wasnt for the fact i just bought a 26 inch crt tv with hdmi hdcp ports i would have bought a 24 inch dell lcd widescreen display.

The no-brainer: ALWAYS get DVI (1)

toby (759) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035188)

It's amazing how many people don't get the difference between DVI and VGA - firstly the image quality difference, of course, but secondly the conceptual difference between digital addressability and analog reprocessing. For instance, DVI enables subpixel rendering of text (as supported by OS X, Linux and even WinXP). I can't imagine using a screen that can't support that.

Nobody today should be buying LCDs without DVI (unless price is the only factor). Your eyes will thank you. (Don't have a DVI card yet? It's only a matter of time...)

Wait.. what? (1)

Mike Savior (802573) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035283)

How are monitors "ergonomic"? Is that a measure of how shapely it feels when I lose touch with reality, and caress it up while I watch porn?

:D ViewSonic VX2025WM (1)

Control-Z (321144) | more than 8 years ago | (#15035589)

I just ordered one of these babys from Newegg for $415, free 3-day shipping too.

Now I can get rid of my big old wood-burning monitor and get me some desktop space back.

Just had to share. Widescreen baby!

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