Australian Parliament Approves Email Snooping 226
brindafella writes "The Sydney Morning Herald newspaper, reporting on a legislative change last week, says 'the [Australian] Government will have 12 months to access communications not only between the B-party and the suspect, but also between the B-party and anyone else. If you have unwittingly communicated with a suspect (and thereby become a B-party), the Government may be able to monitor all your conversations with family members, friends, work colleagues, your lawyer and your doctor.' The Australian Parliament's major parties combined to pass an amendment to the Telecommunications (Interception) Amendment Act 1979."
I feel safe now (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I feel safe now (Score:2)
Re:I feel safe now (Score:2)
Come and say "G'day"! (Score:2)
I don't know, but I think if I were up-to-no-good, I'd encrypt all my emails. Oh wait, got an idea: Hey Australia, maybe you should now ban encrypted emai
get a clue, we got boobs on tv 24/7 (Score:2)
stupid MOFO relegion MOFOs. We show tits, pussy, dicks, say FUCK everything on FTA tv. And no one cares.
Every corner in every street magazine store/711 you can find porn and buy it. Whats your problem?
At least if they snoop emails, they will catch the dodgy politicians and evil corporates.
Real crims wont use email, they will either talk in person at a nude steam bath , or bar.
Besides, how easy is it to setup your own encrpyt
Re:get a clue, we got boobs on tv 24/7 (Score:2)
It Won't Apply To Me (Score:5, Funny)
Mohammed Jihad Uranium Sarin Sydney Howard (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Mohammed Jihad Uranium Sarin Sydney Howard (Score:2)
Re:Mohammed Jihad Uranium Sarin Sydney Howard (Score:2)
You're right that they're a different country, but not a completely different one. They also go in the very same direction as GB or USA, and I can bet you'll see a regulation of this kind pretty soon.
Re:Mohammed Jihad Uranium Sarin Sydney Howard (Score:2)
Re:It Won't Apply To Me (Score:5, Informative)
I've been following the progress of this and similar acts and yes, in theory at least, it will give the Australian Government the right to collect information on us Aussie Slashdotters.
From the Gilbert + Tobin Centre of Public Law:
The worst of it though, is the unseemly haste the government has used to rush this through parliament. Interested parties were given only 10 days to prepare submissions on the Bill, and the Senate Committee had only two weeks to review the submissions, hear evidence and prepare a report. They really badly want to read our private correspondence.Re:It Won't Apply To Me (Score:2, Insightful)
Seriously, though.. i'm simply not too worried about it.. the sheer volume of processing that actually putting this into practice requires will easily outstrip it's usefulness. Besides, they attempted to do it before (when it was only a grey area.. it was never illegal as such in
Re:It Won't Apply To Me (Score:2)
If you're not worried about it, then congratulations on being a lilly-white ctiizen who only associates with lilly white friends.
In any case, it's not likely to be the individuals they're chasing, though the ability to arrest anyone they want to any time will be appealing for them. What they want is the aggregate data, same as they illegaly gained from the journos on the Tampa.
If they can check what a large number of people are saying about any issue, they can respon
Aussie cops are nicer than USA cops (Score:2)
They usually are nicer, ie if they find 2g of pot, they go, oh well, no bother, too much paper work, we'll just
throw it away. No need to record it. USA cops will give you 2years extra.
But none of this is new, they could get email info on you from HDs in 1991 easily. But today its a bit more difficult if you store it in Gmail or some chineese SSL webmail service.
Re:It Won't Apply To Me (Score:2)
The amendment you've seen activates parts of the anti-terrorism acts which relate to communications interceptions. There's a better explanation here: http://www.apo.org.au/webboard/results.chtml?file n ame_num=12343 [apo.org.au]
Re:It Won't Apply To Me (Score:2)
Figure your suspect has emailed 100 people in the past year, and then figure that each of those people has emailed 100 different people. Assuming no
Re:It Won't Apply To Me (Score:2)
1) Sift through email
2) Collect "criminals" (any that apply, not just ter'ists)
3) Profit
Re:It Won't Apply To Me (Score:3, Insightful)
Not that I wouldn't put it past little johnnie and friends to go "overboard".
But any closed loops may be of interest, don't forget the ip addresses and other data the wrappers are carrying.
Some said you can't read it all - agreed. But some good data mining software and a Mk1 eyeball, may find patterns - time of day, closed loops, etc that supposedly may be the justification - if any of the people do become persons of interest.
More likely it all goes
Australian Politics Gone Mad (Score:5, Interesting)
State labour in NSW (where Sydney is and the biggest state) has been unable to fix Sydney's transport problem and keeps closing roads around new tollways stuffing up public transport...not to mention they haven't been able to improve a constantly deteriorating health care system. Federal labour can't get enough votes to put up any serious opposition and the opposing party has a majority in both houses. The young labour party has recently been in the papers for calling for conscription - a total about face on their previous postion. Recently the labour party also did an about face on their position regarding forcing ISPs to filter pornography (and are now in favour of this with all of its technical problems). What's more they have personality issues within the party (nothing new in politics but this is when a party has to band together to survive).
I'm an Australian who feels I have zero representation. Not one politician here is even trying to make this country better...not even for the votes.
Re:Australian Politics Gone Mad (Score:2, Insightful)
I say vote Greens. (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't really see what you mean by "loony", though. Everything they do seems to be in the interests of the people. Yes, maybe their policies wouldn't be "the best thing for the economy", but have you ever considered that always doing what is "best for the economy" involves completely forgetting about social, ethical and moral considerations?
Forget the economy. There are more important things in life than money.
Re:I say vote Greens. (Score:3, Insightful)
Say you implemented the most draconian of green laws. This would mean all these companies had to spend money to get up to code. This would mean they'd have to hire people internally to find out and implement what needs to be done, and hire externally to get it done. They might have to hike prices up a bit, but there would be many, many new jobs created.
So what exactly is the do
Re:I say vote Greens. (Score:2)
Sane Universe with Capital Mobility Controls: Firm goes belly up, no more jobs, no more money.
The Real World: Firm flees to Mexico, no more jobs, no more
Re:I say vote Greens. (Score:2)
And please don't tell me that you can't do that in a free economy; they're allowed to regulate against asbestos but not against other polutants? Not only that, but protectionism is a fact in all first world countries already (which is why third world countries are having such a time trying to get a foor in the door). As for companies fleeing...no profit in that i
Re:I say vote Greens. (Score:2)
Which is a great idea, until you realize how monumentally unfair that standard would be for developing nations. Nations like the United States, for example, can by virtue of messily developing early, have the luxury of cutting emissions and sinking one part of the economy in favor of another (or in this case, creating one from whole cloth, which is why I mentio
Re:I say vote Greens. (Score:2)
Re:I say vote Greens. (Score:2)
Re:I say vote Greens. (Score:2)
If I make 12000 widgets a year, and my company's expenses are $50000000 a year, I can sell my widgets for $5000 each and make a decent amount of money. If the Green Party (or any other - a tax increase does much the same thing) increases my expenses to $60000000 to meet their mandates, I need to raise my prices to $6000 each to cover my increased costs.
Now, YOU aren't going to get a 20% salary increase just because my costs went up 20% to make a widget (and
Re:I say vote Greens. (Score:2)
Re:I say vote Greens. (Score:2)
Completely irrelevant. Not only are the Greens in Australia a much more credible party with more representation, Australia has a proportional representation system that gives minor parties a much more significant voice and funding. It's not a completely two-party system like the US.
Re:I say vote Greens. (Score:2)
Francis Fukuyama apparently thinks so [wikipedia.org]. Neo-Liberalism (and its more militant arm, Neo-Conservatism) agree with him. The plan is that all social structures are going to be destroyed in order to make a "society" of consumer bees who live only to buzz in a capitalist hive, while constantly watching markets to take immediate advantage of anything that passes near enough to be stung th
Re:Australian Politics Gone Mad (Score:2)
Re:Australian Politics Gone Mad (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Australian Politics Gone Mad (Score:2)
Please enjoy the rest of your day despite having your head firmly planted where the sun don't shine. Ironic for a QLDer no?
Re:Australian Politics Gone Mad (Score:2)
I think this link may interest you:
http://www.bartleby.com/61/43/P0144300.html [bartleby.com]
Typical of Australia (Score:5, Interesting)
All of this is part of a broader lack of accountability, due process and transparency that is becoming part of the culture of Australian lawmaking. There is a good article on the subject here [theage.com.au].
For those from more sensible countries, supposedly democratic Australia currently has the following features:
1. One party entirely in control of both houses of parliament
2. No bill of rights, either legislative or constitutional
3. Legislation allowing for the arrest, detention, and interrogation without charge of persons not suspected of any offence if they may have information that is somehow relevant to a suspected terrorist offence; the onus of proof is reversed so that the person being interrogated must prove that they do NOT have any such information.
4. One of the highest rates of phone tapping in the world
5. Unelected bureacrats empowered to spy on Australians with no parliamentary oversight to speak of
6. Several semi-secret US intelligence bases operating on our soil
7. New crimes of sedition for exercising free speech in a manner that encourages the overthrow of the government
8. Troops in Iraq despite over 80% of the population opposing our involvement before the war
At the moment we also have an extremely disturbing rise in racial and religious intolerance, which in my opinion is in no small part attributable to the federal government's policies and fearmongering on those issues. But of course, this doesn't stop us selling weapons-grade uranium to China [news.com.au] because they weeeeally promise to use it for civilian purposes only.
Re:Typical of Australia (Score:2)
Re:Typical of Australia (Score:5, Insightful)
1. One party entirely in control of both houses of parliament
Check!
2. No bill of rights, either legislative or constitutional
Ok, you got us there
3. Legislation allowing for the arrest, detention, and interrogation without charge of persons not suspected of any offence if they may have information that is somehow relevant to a suspected terrorist offence; the onus of proof is reversed so that the person being interrogated must prove that they do NOT have any such information.
Pfft, legislation is for dweebs. Just ask Dubya
4. One of the highest rates of phone tapping in the world
Hmm, don't know enough to comment, sorry
5. Unelected bureacrats empowered to spy on Australians with no parliamentary oversight to speak of
Elected officials empowering agencies to spy on Americans with no oversight to speak of, check!
6. Several semi-secret US intelligence bases operating on our soil
Check!
7. New crimes of sedition for exercising free speech in a manner that encourages the overthrow of the government
Check! But really, see #3
8. Troops in Iraq despite over 80% of the population opposing our involvement before the war
Dunno about 80%, but sure does feel way over 50...
At the moment we also have an extremely disturbing rise in racial and religious intolerance, which in my opinion is in no small part attributable to the federal government's policies and fearmongering on those issues. But of course, this doesn't stop us selling weapons-grade uranium to China because they weeeeally promise to use it for civilian purposes only.
Check!
Sadly, this looks like the state of affairs all around the world
Re:Typical of Australia (Score:2)
Heh. Just thought I should point out that this is more of an issue for Australia than the U.S.
Re:Typical of Australia (Score:2)
I made a conscious decision to leave the US and return to Australia because I didn't have a lot of faith in the way things were going in the US.
You can imagine my horror over the last 18 months.
- federal 'monopoly' of both houses of parliament. WTF happened to the Democrats whose motto was 'keep the bastards honest'?
- Howard bends over and takes it deeply and willingly on copyright/patents for the US trade agreement while gaining nothing for the primary industry
- Australian Wheat Board. Fuc
Re:Typical of Australia (Score:2)
The English-speaking countries are doing quite well for themselves.
How sad is it that you really believe that. That you really think that the level of freedom in the US or Australia is about as free as it gets...
Let's check the list for my country [google.com]:
1. One party entirely in control of both houses of parliament
Nope. We always have coalition governments, keeping government reasonable, accountable and away from the extremes.
2. No bill of rights, either legislative or constitutional
We have a ver
Re:Typical of Australia (Score:2)
Your Bill of Rights seems to have the qualifier "This right may be restricted by Act of Parliament" (or variants thereof) in entirely too many places for it to be a "strong bill of rights".
And I wish I knew what was trnaslated into English as "without prejudice to restrictions laid down by or pursuant to Act of Parliament." meant in the original Dutch. Since that's a qualifi
Re:Typical of Australia (Score:2)
> We have a very strong bill of rights in our constitution, guaranteeing freedom from discrimination, of speech, religion, press, etc.
Your Bill of Rights seems to have the qualifier "This right may be restricted by Act of Parliament" (or variants thereof) in entirely too many places for it to be a "strong bill of rights".
And I wish I knew what was trnaslated into English as "without prejudice to restrictions laid down by or pursuant to Act of Parliament." meant in the original Dutch. Since that'
Re:Typical of Australia (Score:2)
Everyone shall have the right to respect for his privacy, without prejudice to restrictions laid down by or pursuant to Act of Parliament.
That's the first part of Article 6 of the Const
Re:Typical of Australia (Score:2)
Links? (Score:5, Insightful)
The admenment act is basically just, as far as I can tell, making some parts of the act plainer, saying that a router which buffers packets in memory is not actually storing those packets just because it needs to store them for a few milliseconds. It also clarifies that VoIP is not stored communications.
Any citations of the actual amendment?
Darryl
Re:Links? (Score:2)
A few small, tiny questions... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:A few small, tiny questions... (Score:2, Insightful)
2 - Wait for spammer to email everyone in Australia.
3 - Become legally entitled to monitor all Australians at will.
Re:A few small, tiny questions... (Score:2, Insightful)
They wouldn't have to look very far. John Howard himself took to spamming his electorate just before the last election.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:A few small, tiny questions... (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe that means they've already got all the tools they need - in which case, why do they need this?
Re:A few small, tiny questions... (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact is, a group of people from an increasingly vilified minority in Australia were arrested and are being held without formal charges being laid or evidence tendered.
They are being held under dubious new laws that extend the amount of time someone can be held without formal charges or evidence.
I expect they will be held for several months and then released without charge, trial, or comment in the media.
Re:A few small, tiny questions... (Score:2)
The same reason it is everywhere else (Score:2)
Given the choice, I'd prefer the danger of a bomb on my head to the golden cage. Unfortunately, we don't get the choice.
Re:A few small, tiny questions... (Score:3)
Rightly or wrongly, the "2002 Bali bombings [wikipedia.org] is percieved as such:
The largest group among those killed were holiday-makers from Australia. The Bali bombing is sometimes called "Australia's September 11" because of the large number of its citizens killed in the attack.
A few glib answers (Score:2)
It is in our constitution that what the USA does our government must try to go "one better". It used to be about having cattle stations bigger than a Texan ranch (maybe even bigger than Texas?). Nowadys its all about who can find the most terrorists.
"Has there been any major terrorist attack on Australia?"
No, Aussies have been targeted in three major Indonesian attacks over the last few years. We have had some "minor" attacks in the past from neo
Re:A few small, tiny questions... (Score:2)
Well, they jumped gung-ho into the Iraq invasion, which didn't work out too well for the UKs "zero islamic terrorism evar!!!" record on one warm, sunny July morning in 2005.
Despite our politicians attempts to mislead us from the truth, these terrorists don't hate freedom. They hate our actions, and rightly so. And now they hate Austrailia as well
*sigh* (Score:4, Funny)
Chain letter (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Chain letter (Score:3, Insightful)
Welcome to 1984 (Score:5, Interesting)
The excuse for all of this is "the rise in global terrorism", well if that were really the reason then the terrorists have won, they have fundamentally changed our societies.
The reasons are deeper than that, terrorism is an excuse that is brought out as a bogey man to try to provide justification for further infringements of civil liberites. The Tony Blair, in the UK, is now pushing an act [saveparliament.org.uk] that will allow any government minister to change almost any bit of legislation without having to bother to pursuade parliament to agree.
We will suffer for sleep walking to a state where unelected civil servants have the power to snoop on us without any real oversight. This will be abused by these civil servants for their own personal ends.
You thought that Russia 20 years ago was bad - we will have it far worse.
Re:Welcome to 1984 (Score:5, Insightful)
It has amazed me for a long time that major politicians fail to see this, or at least act as if they do so.
5 years go, all "free western country" politicians were telling you that freedom was the highest goal in life, that communism was lack of freedom and so it was bad, that totalitarian governments were evil, etc.
They were also claiming they would never negotiate with - or give in to terrorists because that would mean the end of this sacred freedom.
And now, they are taking away all freedom at will to "combat" a problem that is mostly caused by their own behaviour. Freedom suddenly is worth nothing, now "security" is the buzzword. All other priorities and values have to give way to this.
Wouldn't it be better to look at the reasons for terrorism and do something about that, than to always try to "fight a war" against it?
Terrorism is a byproduct of fighting wars against defenseless minority groups, and so fighting a war against terrorism is completely counter-productive.
Re:Welcome to 1984 (Score:3, Insightful)
It would, if curbing terrorism really was the goal, but it isn't. The actual goals are (in no particular order):
Terrorism is useful because it keeps the population scared. Politicians can't publicly support or endorse it, of course, but they can act in a manner that they full well know will increase te
Re:Welcome to 1984 (Score:2, Troll)
I don't think you have much idea of how Christian missions work. Most of them do not set good examples (quite the opposite) but instead focus on telling the indigenous that they are subhuman, and forcing
Re:Welcome to 1984 (Score:2)
Better for whom?
Better for us, or better for the ruling elites?
Might it not be better for the elites that we always "fighting a war"?
Re:Welcome to 1984 (Score:2)
Large countries with a well equipped army just send out stealth bombers and intelligent missiles, and this usually is not termed "terrorism".
Religiuous groups and small countries being invaded and suppressed by larger powers use terrorism as a method of scaring their opponents.
In the past decades we have seen one country occupying neighboring countries' terrain and getting security council r
Re:Welcome to 1984 (Score:2)
I guess the movie V for Vendetta is a reply to Tony Blair.
Re:Welcome to 1984 (Score:2)
Personally I think the situation will be less like Big Brother, and more so like Brazil (the movie). A dystopian world where bureaucracy is king, civil servants have enormous unchecked power, civil rights are non existant, but a place where people, on the whole, simply accept the situation, as it is not ye
Re:Welcome to 1984 (Score:5, Insightful)
ARGGHHHH! Stop it, stop it, STOP IT RIGHT THERE!!
They do not hate our freedom. They don't want us to change our countries. They don't want you to lose unrestricted travel. While they might think your lifestyle is immoral, as long as you are on the other side of the world, they'll happilly let you reserve your place in the Islamic equivalent of hell.
What they do hate is the policies of our governments. They hate how we have interfered in their own governments for our own ends. They hate how we overthrow their democraticly elected governments with crackpot dictators, and then give those dictatorships/monarchies the arms and financial means to survive. They hate how we used them in Afganistan to fight the soviets, then turned on them when it suited us. Al Qaida used to be our friend; the name itself was given to them by the CIA and they adopted it themselves.
Every time someone says "the terrorists have already won", the only winner is liars such as Bush and Blair who claim it is a war on freedom. Until people start calling them out publically on these patriotic-manipulation lies, things like Austrailia's email snooping habits will be the tip of the iceberg.
Re:Welcome to 1984 (Score:2)
Re:Welcome to 1984 (Score:2)
Despite the fact that they've specifically stated so?
You're getting normal middle-easterners mixed up with the terrorists. Very sloppy. The terrorists (Islamic theocrats) have always been against democracy, freedom of speech, and freedom of religion. They've even published books saying so. They'v
Re:Welcome to 1984 (Score:3, Informative)
When? Cite a time and place where they say they want to remove personal freedom in the USA. Bush says "they hate freedom" often enough, but it doesn't make it true. Banging the freedom and liberty drum is a great way to get patriotic Americans on side, without them asking too many questions.
You're getting normal middle-easterners mixed up with the terrorists. Very sloppy. The terrorists (Islamic theocrats) have always been against democracy, freedom
Re:Welcome to 1984 (Score:2)
Right. The only thing I can see is a "rise in global totalitarianism" in our very countries. Australia is not alone; in just about every western country (including here in switzerland) the fascist buggers in government increase in numbers and get more and more of a problem. It's not only the usual suspects (the right wing patriots, raci
Six degrees of separation... (Score:5, Interesting)
In other words, as far as I can see, the Australian Parliament has just decreed that the government can read all the email it likes, whenever it likes.
If I were in charge, and unscrupulous, the first person I'd declare a suspect would be the chief of the opposition party.
Redneck agenda.... (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been out of Australia for quite some time, I've found there to be quite a contrast to the Australia I left more than a year ago. I arrived back here just a couple of days before the Cronulla Race Riots [wikipedia.org]. Since then our leaders have been spouting racist generalisations [news.com.au]. There has been a large police crack down, the muslim community have made many claims [abc.net.au] that they are being unfairly targeted, I can personally verify this as on two occasions I've personally witnessed police unfairly targeting muslim men. I've also noticed since the riots (where our flag was used as a symbol of racial hatred), many police cars have had Australian flags mounted to their cars. I can't help thinking this is a sign of solidarity with the rascist mob.
I really don't even know how these riots could have occurred without police complicity. We have Racial Villification Laws [hreoc.gov.au] here in Australia, that if they were applied that day could have been used to arrest most of the mob that day before any violence even began.
And with all this, in the background we have our detention [tear.org.au] camps in which whole families including children have been kept in detention. There have been cases where children have basically grown up in detention.
Unless there's a big turn around here I think the future for Australia could be something straight out of Huxely's Brave New World or 1984.
Solution to racism (Score:2)
There should be a department that operates a bit like match.com and matches together two people who want to kill each other. Then you put them in a room together and let one of the idiots kill the other idiot. This way it is off the streets and racists can eliminate each other in a way that does not affect reasonable people.
Re:Solution to racism (Score:2, Insightful)
PGP (Score:2)
smash (aussie)
Re:PGP (Score:2)
"Should we get a warrant?"
"Fuck no! Do you want to do all that paperwork?"
And so, the smartass nerd loses to the corrupt bureaucrats. This has been another episode of Postmodern Democracy. Tune in next week when a cleared suspect gets beaten and detained for reporting a crime! (Oh wait, that was last wee
Now the crackdown on Spam makes sense! (Score:2)
Heh (Score:2)
...oh, wait.
It's a 100% coverage of all the population (Score:2)
Technically, they can force some "suspect" just to communicate with you to be able to monitor you. From then, they declare you suspect...
Sure, why not? (Score:2)
Yet another excuse to invade our privacy. Id say thankfully i dont live there, but it will be like that here soon anyway.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Big brother is watching....again..... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Big brother is watching....again..... (Score:2)
Takes a bit of study and all, but, this is a pretty secure method of email...multiple hops with the messages encrypt
Re:Big brother is watching....again..... (Score:2)
Re:Big brother is watching....again..... (Score:3, Informative)
"Clause 19 introduces a new computer offence of intentionally accessing a computer system without authorisation; commonly known as "hacking" (new section 305ZFA) (the unauthorised access offence). However, the offence will not apply to everyone because clause 19 provides qualified exemptions for the following State agencies:
1)the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service (the SIS) (new section 305ZFB)
2)
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Use PGP/GPG (Score:2, Informative)
Dammit, I'm sure intelligence used to mean something else.
Re:Use PGP/GPG (Score:2)
You WISH there was no rudder (Score:4, Insightful)
I know exactly what you mean about feeling like we're in a downward spiral here though...
Re:What is wrong with this country? (Score:2)
Re:What doe this mean for SPAM? (Score:2)
Unfortunately, this new law doesn't state that the government must monitor all communications of the "B-party", only that it may if it deems this useful.
Same remark about the idea of sending to mail all politicians once you're suspected of a crime.
Re:What doe this mean for SPAM? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Follow the leader (USA) (Score:2, Funny)
Re:The Americans of the South Pacific (Score:2)
"...The most surprising aspect is the sheer admiration that the 'Strayan people hold for the U.S. and their collective willingness to become a subservient client state to U.S. interests..."
But do the Australian people maintain a meaningful admiration for the US? It seems more likely that, as with some other western "liberal" democracies (eg. UK), they are in the thrall of a political elite which seeks power for its own sake or for their own ends and which flatters itself that kowtowing to shrub's every
Re:If you have nothing to hide... (Score:3, Interesting)
Something to hide, probably.